Agree or Disagree...

[Anne Lauren]

As far as the male race is concerned...Any type of relationship that they might have with a woman is, overall, somehow sexually motivated. Like, when men think of women, they think of sex...first and foremost. A man's ultimate sexual fantasy is to somehow degrade and treat a woman almost like a dog when haveing sex with her. Like, cumming on their face, doing it doggy style, slappin their ass, two guys taking turns on one girl, etc...It's a power thing with them almost. And guys really do love sluts. Deep down inside it's really a turn on because pictureing a girl getting banged by a lot of guys makes them horny. However, it de-values her though, almost. She's not "special"...but, that's different than as far as pure sexual drive is concerned. And that a man is not capable of haveing an innocent friendship-like relationship with a girl. There's always underlying motives. Guys don't want to just hang out with a girl...if they wanted to just hang out with someone, they'd call their guy friends. Infact, they don't like hanging out with girls. And if a man does end up haveing a long term relationship with one woman, it is largely due to circumstances and the girl basically starts to grow on them, which then might potentially turn into love. Men are so simple in how they think that it's almost primitive. And all this basically applies to all men reguardless of their age. Basically, they "mature" because woman do and they have to adapt to the women's behaviors. In other words, as far as sex is concerned, a man has the same thoughts and instincts that they did when they were some hormonal teenage boy...they just mask it differently. And if a guy says or acts any differently...they're lying and full of shit for the sole bottom line purpose of fullfilling their sex drive instincts. They can't help it.

My brother and I were drinking together one night and had this discussion. And this is what he told me. And it seems very accurate to me. I would try and run an example by him in which this didn't apply and every single time it resorted back to the basic principles of men. Now, I'm just talking about the basic primitive instincts of men as far as sex is concerned. They're almost animalistic.

[adam_f]

Disagree quite a bit.

[TAL]

Me too.

To bad we're "lying and full of shit for the sole bottom line purpose of fullfilling our sex drive instincts."

[adam_f]

The guys who love sluts are usually the ones going to jail thanks to a domestic disturbance in that truly wonderful household.

[King PSYZ]

two points of intrest;

one) anne lauren came back????

two) she has such a distorted view of men (further supported to her referral of them as a seperate race) obviouslly derived from too much oprah and porn and far too little contact with real men. and by real men I mean the kind that actually treat a signifigant other with respect and dignity.

[Rawr]

cumming on their face, doing it doggy style, slappin their ass, two guys taking turns on one girl,

thats probably the most thing i hate about boys.
well.. who do that, anyway.

And that a man is not capable of haveing an innocent friendship-like relationship with a girl. There's always underlying motives. Guys don't want to just hang out with a girl...if they wanted to just hang out with someone, they'd call their guy friends. Infact, they don't like hanging out with girls. And if a man does end up haveing a long term relationship with one woman, it is largely due to circumstances and the girl basically starts to grow on them, which then might potentially turn into love.
:(. thanks, that sure does make me never want a boyfriend again.

[Anne Lauren]

It's not my theory...I'm not a guy.

And at first I doubted a lot of it because someone's first instinct would be to get defensive, like this is some sort of "man bashing", "all men are assholes" sort of argument. But, it has nothing to do with that. People make it too complex. I'm talking about the bare basic instincts of a man. Lust, sex, etc...Nothing to do with love, committment, responsibilities, emotions, and all the other stuff seems to intertwind with sex. It goes back to the primitive evolution of a man...a man's intinct is to "speed his seed", so's to speak. So, it's intintive that men lust after females. Think about it...sex is everywhere. It sells. Pornos, Baywatch, Playboy, and I could go on and on. And obviously the market is catored to males. Even in football games...basic primitive man intincts. A bunch of men being competive against one another by basically beating the shit out of each other...whoever is the toughest and is able to outsmart the other is the winner. What role do the females play in the game...the dancers on the side lines seduceing the audience basically. The men don't want to hang out with them and be there friend... not a part of the competion. Theywork around the men's schedule...half time during a break when theyre riled up and need to release tension. The power thing...And how many of you guys know the dancers names? You know the players? You don't because you don't give a shit. They're just sexy to watch move. They're not unique or "special"...just sexy.

[Rancid_Beasties]

You are sounding as pesimistic as the guy who wrote the ladder theory.

[Anne Lauren]

two points of intrest;

one) anne lauren came back????

two) she has such a distorted view of men (further supported to her referral of them as a seperate race) obviouslly derived from too much oprah and porn and far too little contact with real men. and by real men I mean the kind that actually treat a signifigant other with respect and dignity.

Oh please...that last comment right there sounded like something from Oprah.

So, you're saying a "real" man doesn't watch pornos and get turned on. A "real" man gets horny watching a love story because it's romantic and the character in the movie found his "true love" and they lived happily ever after? After watching the movie the guy wanted to make love? And you're saying that, for example, there's two women in a club or wherever. One of them is 300 pounds and not very attractive. The other one is hot as hell. Both of them drop something on the floor. Who do you think "instictively" a guy is going to help and go out of his way to be nice to? And why? Because he's just a nice guy?

This has nothing to do with dignity or respect of a woman. And it has nothing to do with a guy wanting to beat the shit out of a slut. He just wants to fuck her. And he doesn't respect her because he doesn't care. She's nothing "special".

[King PSYZ]

It's not my theory...I'm not a guy.

I'm talking about the bare basic instincts of a man. Lust, sex, etc...Nothing to do with love, committment, responsibilities, emotions, and all the other stuff seems to intertwind with sex. It goes back to the primitive evolution of a man...a man's intinct is to "speed his seed", so's to speak. So, it's intintive that men lust after females.

are you a man?
no?
then how can you speak as if you are one and about their instincts?

[Anne Lauren]

You are sounding as pesimistic as the guy who wrote the ladder theory.

Why is it pesimistic? It's not necessarily a "bad" thing.

And you all are analyzeing it too much.

Name a specific example of how these basics don't apply?

[King PSYZ]

Oh please...that last comment right there sounded like something from Oprah.

So, you're saying a "real" man doesn't watch pornos and get turned on. A "real" man gets horny watching a love story because it's romantic and the character in the movie found his "true love" and they lived happily ever after? After watching the movie the guy wanted to make love? And you're saying that, for example, there's two women in a club or wherever. One of them is 300 pounds and not very attractive. The other one is hot as hell. Both of them drop something on the floor. Who do you think "instictively" a guy is going to help and go out of his way to be nice to? And why? Because he's just a nice guy?

This has nothing to do with dignity or respect of a woman. And it has nothing to do with a guy wanting to beat the shit out of a slut. He just wants to fuck her. And he doesn't respect her because he doesn't care. She's nothing "special".

wow, you really are a twisted head case. look i'm sorry you've had a bad experience with dumb dudes. but you have a very small and distorted view of males.

and where in the hell did I say a real guy would get turned on watching a love story? maybe a real man doesn't have to watch anything to get turned on, maybe a real man just needs to be with the person they love to get turned on.

your mock scenarios are hillarious as well, because you automaticlly assume the outcome. personally if someone dropped something, unless it was at my feet i'm not jumping accross the room to pick it up as it would be sorta creepy and a little rude to assume they couldnt be self sufficient enough to pick it up. if it was right in front of me then big, small, hot, ugly, man, or woman, someone drops something within reach of me it's the polite thing to do to pick it up for them.

you sound like somone recently jilted, quick hurry if you lash out at every male in cyberspace it might help you feel better instead of actually confronting whatever asshole(s) put you in this frame of mind.

[Anne Lauren]

are you a man?
no?
then how can you speak as if you are one and about their instincts?

Read the fucking paragraph again carefully. My brother...which is a term used for a male...made these comments during a discussion we had.

And calm down...You're like an emotional wreck over this.

[King PSYZ]

Name a specific example of how these basics don't apply?
Why don't you name one that does apply first, and do so to an actual person and not a generalization. Then recall that people are individuals and said exapmle can only be applied to that one persons behaviour. and then [/thread]

[Rancid_Beasties]

I'd help the obese one because with that amount of weight, shes more likely to be injured from falling over. Also I tend to laugh when really, really attractive people who are clearly full of themselves fall over and make an ass of themselves. Kinda reminds me that nobody is perfect(y). I'm also pretty sure that all the other guys in the room would have rushed to the aid of the pretty girl, so they can fight it out for the kudos or whatever.

Anyway, you're making it sound as if a guy is incapable of comitting to a long term relationship...which is clearly wrong otherwise marriage and monogamy wouldn't even exist.

EDIT: I thought you said the two girls fell over. The same thing applies, except I'd be more intimidated by the attractive girl and more likely to help the overweight one because it would be hard for her to bend down or something.

[King PSYZ]

Read the fucking paragraph again carefully. My brother...which is a term used for a male...made these comments during a discussion we had.

And calm down...You're like an emotional wreck over this.
OK, so there you go, your brother is an asshole, case solved. And unlike you I don't let the internet ruin my day or make an emotional wreck out of me.

[TAL]

Here's a funny:
This could be interesting though...if he's a loser...I get drunk, ditch him, and hurt his feelings. If he's hot and sexy...I go with the flow and see what happens.

[King PSYZ]

^
like brother, like sister it seems...

[Rock]

Wait a second, how is doggy style degrading?

And yeah....what they said you re re.

[Rancid_Beasties]

Why is it pesimistic? It's not necessarily a "bad" thing.

And you all are analyzeing it too much.

Name a specific example of how these basics don't apply?
Its pessimistic because it makes guys out to be solely in relationships for sex. I have alot of female friends I would never even think about having sex with, not because they are physically unattractive, but because theres no spark. Anyway, do you honestly think that we only evaluate females based on physical appeal. Maybe thats the first thing we do, but after that humour, common interests, personality etc kick into action.

[Anne Lauren]

wow, you really are a twisted head case. look i'm sorry you've had a bad experience with dumb dudes. but you have a very small and distorted view of males.

and where in the hell did I say a real guy would get turned on watching a love story? maybe a real man doesn't have to watch anything to get turned on, maybe a real man just needs to be with the person they love to get turned on.

your mock scenarios are hillarious as well, because you automaticlly assume the outcome. personally if someone dropped something, unless it was at my fet i'm not jumping accross the room to pick it up as it would be sorta creepy and a little rude to assume they couldnt be self sufficient enough to pick it up. if it was right in front of me then big, small, hot, ugly, man, or woman, someone drops something within reach of me it's the polite thing to do to pick it up for them.

you sound like somone recently jilted, quick hurry if you lash out at every male in cyberspace it might help you feel better instead of actually confronting whatever asshole(s) put you in this frame of mind.

Geeze...

From what I wrote you where able to write my life story...I just recently got jilted by a lover and I'm bitter, so during one of my crazy emotional episodes I decided to hop on the computer and lash out at every man on the internet. Man, you are good. (y)

Anyway, this has nothing to do with me...just merely a discussion. And, actually I've never really had a bad experience with some "dumb dude". Maybe, my brother's the one that has the distorted views about women? Maybe, he's an asshole that likes to fuck women?

[King PSYZ]

so i'm guessing english comprehension isn't a strong suit for you...

[Anne Lauren]

Its pessimistic because it makes guys out to be solely in relationships for sex. I have alot of female friends I would never even think about having sex with, not because they are physically unattractive, but because theres no spark. Anyway, do you honestly think that we only evaluate females based on physical appeal. Maybe thats the first thing we do, but after that humour, common interests, personality etc kick into action.

I agree with most of what you're are saying. But, then again, like in pornos, for example...they don't list a profile of the actors to see if the viewers would be compatable with them or not. And, just a question, why do men go out to bars and clubs? To dance and socialize? More than likely it's sexually driven...

And, granted, I'm not a male. And know a lot of guys that are probably seen as being "typical males" and they're not all jerks, either. And they would love to find that one woman that they would want to be with for the rest of their lives. But, they are horny bastards that love having sex with women, and put a lot of effort into doing it.

[Anne Lauren]

I think we can just go ahead and disregard everything that Anne Lauren has said. Some men are assholes, and she seems to think that all men are. I must be really weird then because I want a relationship with a girl where it is more than about sex.

I have said this before, sex means nothing to me unless it is with someone I care about. Sure, I have sexual thoughts and stuff about girls here and there, but when it comes down to it, I want a special girl and not a slut.

Find where I wrote that all men are assholes? I love men!
And where did I write that men prefer sluts as being relationship material? Infact, I think I wrote that sluts aren't special. So, you proved my point...men don't want relationships with sluts because they're not special. But, I also wrote that special women and relationships is something totally different than sluts and lust and sex. And with a lot of men...they don't crave sex because it has meaning...it just feels good.

[Rancid_Beasties]

I go out to nightclubs once or twice a week, and yes, I go to dance and socialize. Also, I have never gone out with someone I met at a nightclub. All the girls I've gone out with have either been friends first, or a friend of a friend, or I met them through a high school thing (I went to an all boys school :(), or I met them in class at uni.

Why do you keep using pornos as an example of how men are sexually driven? It really doesnt help your argument that men are sexually driven in relationships. It just shows that men enjoy watching naked women for physical stimulation, and if its only physical stimulation you're after then of course you are going to look at someone attractive. However, if there was a choice between actually dating a really attractive porn star or a plain girl with an amazing personality, I think most decent guys would choose the latter. Also I'd rather not get a disease of some sort.

[Anne Lauren]

That's exactly why. I've never picked a girl up at a bar and it's not on my agenda.

So, you go to church to find that "special" someone. And the clubs and bars are strictly for dancing and mingleing with you're buddlies...girls and guys. But, you'd never have sex with your girl-friends because there is no "spark". It wouldn't be romantic. Nice! (y) Good luck finding a girl to be in that "special" relationship with.

[Rancid_Beasties]

So, you go to church to find that "special" someone. And the clubs and bars are strictly for dancing and mingleing with you're buddlies...girls and guys. But, you'd never have sex with your girl-friends because there is no "spark". It wouldn't be romantic. Nice! (y) Good luck finding a girl to be in that "special" relationship with.
I'd have sex with some of my "girl-friends" but thats not my motivation for being friends with them. Thats just a side note.

Are you saying that girls wouldnt think the same thing for guy friends? What is your point really. You're just stating old stereotypes that everybody has heard before.

[paul jones]

When I was a kid I thought that when you get past 30,everyone is like Little House on The Prairie and I'd be chopping logs for firewood whilst my kids would be running and falling down the hill whilst the wife would be making stew

but I was only 7 after all

[Rancid_Beasties]

The only good thing about stew is the way the potatoes go. Everything else in the stew tastes better cooked normally.

[paul jones]

The only good thing about stew is the way the potatoes go. Everything else in the stew tastes better cooked normally.


yeah,like beef and stuff

[TAL]

Did you also think your older sister would become blind?

[paul jones]

Did you also think your older sister would become blind?

shit,those episodes were so sad :(

[Rancid_Beasties]

yeah,like beef and stuff
Yeah and carrots, I love them raw but really dont like them cooked.

[Anne Lauren]

I go out to nightclubs once or twice a week, and yes, I go to dance and socialize. Also, I have never gone out with someone I met at a nightclub. All the girls I've gone out with have either been friends first, or a friend of a friend, or I met them through a high school thing (I went to an all boys school :(), or I met them in class at uni.

Why do you keep using pornos as an example of how men are sexually driven? It really doesnt help your argument that men are sexually driven in relationships. It just shows that men enjoy watching naked women for physical stimulation, and if its only physical stimulation you're after then of course you are going to look at someone attractive. However, if there was a choice between actually dating a really attractive porn star or a plain girl with an amazing personality, I think most decent guys would choose the latter. Also I'd rather not get a disease of some sort.

Are you all freakin' retarded? I mean, I'm seriously not understanding what is so difficult to comprehend here. First of all, why are you mentioning the sources of how you found these girls? That has nothing to do with anything. Nightclubs, school, whatever works for you...

And I keep mentioning pornos because pornos are about sexually driven, degradeing to women during sexual acts, and animalistic as you're gonna get. That's the whole point of them...to allow for mainly men to fullfill they're sexual fantasies. And, obviously, it turns a lot of men on because the industry is huge!

And why are you talking about dating pornstars? Why would you want to? They're job is to get you off. You date the "special" girls.

[paul jones]

Yeah and carrots, I love them raw but really dont like them cooked.

I prefer them cooked but then again,I haven't tried carrots raw yet,like Bugs Bunny. I was hypnotised as a kid by the sound of Bugs eating his carrots. I used to think 'That must be good to eat'. The same with Popeye and his Spinach but I don't recall eating spinach.It probably gives you the shits more than make you beat up big beardy types

[TAL]

Porn makes me horny as hell!

[Anne Lauren]

I prefer them cooked but then again,I haven't tried carrots raw yet,like Bugs Bunny. I was hypnotised as a kid by the sound of Bugs eating his carrots. I used to think 'That must be good to eat'. The same with Popeye and his Spinach but I don't recall eating spinach.It probably gives you the shits more than make you beat up big beardy types

Hey, now! Take your food stories elsewhere.

[paul jones]

Hey, now! Take your food stories elsewhere.

oops sorry!

continue the sex talk (y)

[TAL]

It's not a sex thread, it a thread about how her brother dislikes men.

[Rancid_Beasties]

Are you all freakin' retarded? I mean, I'm seriously not understanding what is so difficult to comprehend here. First of all, why are you mentioning the sources of how you found these girls? That has nothing to do with anything. Nightclubs, school, whatever works for you...

And I keep mentioning pornos because pornos are about sexually driven, degradeing to women during sexual acts, and animalistic as you're gonna get. That's the whole point of them...to allow for mainly men to fullfill they're sexual fantasies. And, obviously, it turns a lot of men on because the industry is huge!

And why are you talking about dating pornstars? Why would you want to? They're job is to get you off. You date the "special" girls.
Look, why are you getting so aggressive, all I'm saying is that there are alot of guys that prefer to meet girls places other than nightclubs because that way you can filter out girls you haven't met that might turn out to be psychos like you.

And as far as pornos go, there are some films that attempt to either eroticise equality or turn the tables on men, often made by feminist producers. Whilst mainstream feminists criticise this as no better than the male dominated version, I think it proves the point that porno's aren't just for men to fullfill their fantasies. They are for whomever chooses to watch it to fullfill their own specific fantasy. Now you can't criticise the whole male "race", as you call it, if you don't take into account the fact that some guys just prefer amature where its real and theres no underlying tones of domination.

[guerillaGardner]

I once read a book by Nancy Friday called My Secret Garden. It was an anthology of women's sexual fantasies. It included all sorts of bizarre things - sex with animals, some stuff I feel I'd rather not repeat, etc.

She then did an equivalent volume about male sexual fantasies and acknowledged that although the male fantasies were no more sick or twisted than those of the females, she felt repulsed by them.

I would say why is male sexuality more abhorrent than that of the female when it is basically just the same, but then I don't really give a crap. I'm no longer in the dating game and don't intend to be ever, ever again. I don't envy all the self doubt and insecurity that comes with it. I don't care what women think of men, what men think of women, etc, etc.

When people get this upset about what the opposite sex think (as though they all think with one big ubermind) you're really just being insecure about yourself.

Some men like dirty sex and hate women, some love women and hate dirty sex, some like dirty sex and love women, some dislike both. Don't get so strung out over a generalisation. And if men are that bad, then just say 'fuck em' and move on. Either that or start feeling good about yourself and you won't care what the hell anyone thinks.

[Qdrop]

you know what?

Anne not too far off on this one....

this IS how most men initially view women on some level. we evolved to do so....mingled with our personal ego's, etc.

now this is not to overshadow our equally evolved pair-bonding instinct that has evolved in our species....
the 2 are constantly at odds, it seems.

i mean, it's not as if men think this same way about thier wives or mates.

but when strong emotions such as love are absent....we are left with pure sexual lust....

it makes no differance what some of the "tender, enlightened" men on this board want to claim...
all clamouring to sound more enlightened than the next....

they know what's in their heads....

[Anne Lauren]

Look, why are you getting so aggressive, all I'm saying is that there are alot of guys that prefer to meet girls places other than nightclubs because that way you can filter out girls you haven't met that might turn out to be psychos like you.

And as far as pornos go, there are some films that attempt to either eroticise equality or turn the tables on men, often made by feminist producers. Whilst mainstream feminists criticise this as no better than the male dominated version, I think it proves the point that porno's aren't just for men to fullfill their fantasies. They are for whomever chooses to watch it to fullfill their own specific fantasy. Now you can't criticise the whole male "race", as you call it, if you don't take into account the fact that some guys just prefer amature where its real and theres no underlying tones of domination.

Not aggressive nor psycho...just wondering why certain people keep replying with the same points over and over again and they're irrelavant to the point of the discussion. Like,for example, why are you bringing up feminist producers and their pornos that consist of women dominateing men? I mean, O.K. pointed noted...people get their kicks in different ways. Now, what the hell does that have to do with my point about the basic sexual instincts of men? And, if you feel that my brother was wrong in what he said about men. Then, give a specific example to prove how he was wrong. I mean, I assume you're a dude...so, give an example from you're life. And, don't mention relationships, personalities, love, dating, diseases,etc...because that has nothing to do with it, which I mentioned in the thread, but people can't seem to comprehend that.

And, heck, half the threads on this board are about girls wondering why they can't seem to find love, some connection with some guy, and how they had their feelings hurt, etc...Well, I wonder why?

[Qdrop]

Yeah, you're right. I am just too ugly to ever pick up a girl anywhere, so I claim to be different. If I was hot, I'd be banging sluts all the time.

that's why man invented porn..

[Anne Lauren]

that's why man invented porn..

And it's usually ugly men in them banging the sluts.

[zippo]

i met another one of those guys who treat women as women and not as human beings last nite, yea, those always come along every once in, huddle together in a circle and shake their dicks in the air making poems about their hugeness and efectiveness. lets not put all men in that bag though.

[marsdaddy]

Why is there so little room for disagreement when the thread title is agree or disagree.

Both Anne and Q are making over-generalizations. Freud did it too. Someone research the Madonna/Whore complex and get back to us with your findings.

[zippo]

Why is there so little room for disagreement when the thread title is agree or disagree.

haha true, might as well put down "agree or ill fkin rip your balls off...", cmon now, part of the beauty of it all is the disagreement

[Anne Lauren]

haha true, might as well put down "agree or ill fkin rip your balls off...", cmon now, part of the beauty of it all is the disagreement

Hey...I'm all game. So far,Q, seems to be the only one that has agreed with me...well, technically, my brother.

But, it seems like so far people have only been defensive. People need to provide more specific examples to back up their believes. Like, I mentioned porn, examples in society...sports, like football, etc...People are just commenting that the theory is wrong...but, why?

[Ace42X]

Any type of relationship that they might have with a woman is, overall, somehow sexually motivated.

Not true. Insert the word *HOT* and you will be right on the money, but it is easy for guys to be "just friends" with mingers. Yeah hornies guys will tap anything if they are desperate, but if you examine the "ladder" theory, you'll see that guys do have standards.

A man's ultimate sexual fantasy is to somehow degrade and treat a woman almost like a dog when haveing sex with her. Like, cumming on their face, doing it doggy style, slappin their ass, two guys taking turns on one girl, etc...It's a power thing with them almost.

Bullshit generalisation. Yeah plenty of guys are no doubt feeling emasculated these days, and are angry at the undue amount of social power women currently wield at the moment. No doubt this results in a lot of power-trips when the roles are reversed. But, generally, it is a certain type of girl that these power trips are worked on. Sounds to me like you identify with a bunch of dumb-ass bitches getting themselves train-lined.

And guys really do love sluts. Deep down inside it's really a turn on because pictureing a girl getting banged by a lot of guys makes them horny. However, it de-values her though, almost. She's not "special"...but, that's different than as far as pure sexual drive is concerned.

Of course you'd not want to share a special girl, but by definition, most girls *aren't special*. DUH.

And picturing any sort of heterosexual activity makes guys horny. NUDE WOMEN MAKE GUYS HORNY... There is no mystery or politics to it. I'd wager that if you put down the bullshit cultural indoctrination and explored your sexuality, you'd find you find guys nailing chicks a turn on too. I know plenty of chicks that have fantasies about getting DPd and shizznit like that, what does that say about women?

And that a man is not capable of haveing an innocent friendship-like relationship with a girl. There's always underlying motives.

Hah, yeah, ON THE PART OF THE GIRL. The sex is an OVERLYING motive, it's not some big fucking secret, how naive are you?!? THE UNDERLYING MOTIVE IS THE CHICK USING THE GUY AS AN INTELLECTUAL WHORE (www.intellectualwhores.com).

Hypocrit.

Guys don't want to just hang out with a girl.

Of course they don't, the vast majority of you are narcissistic, two-dimensional, manipulative selfish bitches who are more interested in buying useless things for reasons of their own vanity than actually doing things. How many women list "shopping" as one of the favourite personal activities for chrissakes? Consumption for the sake of consumption, detestable.

And what about the crappy movies you all like? Jesus H Christ, Bridget shitting jones's crappy diary...

And if a man does end up haveing a long term relationship with one woman, it is largely due to circumstances and the girl basically starts to grow on them, which then might potentially turn into love.

It's either because they've found a mould-breaker that isn't a total drag, a slut that will allow them to do whatever they want, or desperation has set in and they'll settle for anything.

I'd hardly say that the shortage of suitable consorts is the fault of men. Perhaps if you women worked on being more interesting life-partners instead of trying to look sexy, you'd end up with guys being more interested in spending time with you. But when a girl's hobby is "making myself look pretty" then what do you really expect?

Men are so simple in how they think that it's almost primitive. And all this basically applies to all men reguardless of their age. Basically, they "mature" because woman do and they have to adapt to the women's behaviors. In other words, as far as sex is concerned, a man has the same thoughts and instincts that they did when they were some hormonal teenage boy...they just mask it differently. And if a guy says or acts any differently...they're lying and full of shit for the sole bottom line purpose of fullfilling their sex drive instincts. They can't help it.

Again, this shows a basic misunderstanding of the situation. "Men are so simple" - yes, in the sense that they are generally straight-forward and rational. That makes them easy to understand. Don't think that the chaotic and random mood-swings of women (the fickle gender) is somehow to your gender's credit. And don't think that emasculating men via feminism is helping your cause at all.

Now, I'm just talking about the basic primitive instincts of men as far as sex is concerned. They're almost animalistic.

And women throwing a hissy fit whenever their cooches bleed is so goddamn enlightened? For chrissakes take a good hard look at your own gender. Making up an abstract social code that none of you agree on, and changes whenever it suits you, is not the high point of social evolution.

Men refusing to buy into the bizarre female psyche isn't a "bad" (or even an 'animalistic') thing, and it is only the fact that it doesn't confirm to your twisted social preconceptions that could possibly make you think it is.

[100% ILL]

It seems women spend a vast majority of their time trying to look pretty, so men will want to have sex with them. Then, as in your case you get upset because we want to have sex with you. But then again women are never accountable for their actions.

[zippo]

Hey...I'm all game. So far,Q, seems to be the only one that has agreed with me...well, technically, my brother.

i agree with you also, except that i dont think all men are like this. its real simple to tell when a man treats you like a woman versus when a man treats you like a human being, like i said. but then again, its so fun to pretend like theyve got a hold of you or the situation like theyre so sure they do, to watch them bask in their pride of having majored in the "art of women", make them think they know what theyre doing just to watch how ridiculous it can get, and then, going home with a smirk and right to sleep, youve gotta wake up early tomorrow!

[Anne Lauren]

OK, let's see...basically, I didn't really see any evidence that disproves any of what I said.

[marsdaddy]

OK, let's see...basically, I didn't really see any evidence that disproves any of what I said.Except Porn.

[Ace42X]

OK, let's see...basically, I didn't really see any evidence that disproves any of what I said.

You wouldn't...

[Anne Lauren]

i agree with you also, except that i dont think all men are like this. its real simple to tell when a man treats you like a woman versus when a man treats you like a human being, like i said. but then again, its so fun to pretend like theyve got a hold of you or the situation like theyre so sure they do, to watch them bask in their pride of having majored in the "art of women", make them think they know what theyre doing just to watch how ridiculous it can get, and then, going home with a smirk and right to sleep, youve gotta wake up early tomorrow!

Yeah...Women really have so much power over men as far as sexuality is concerned. But, I have to agree with dude...women, are too damn emotional and complicated. Who knows...

[Anne Lauren]

You wouldn't...

Nah, I see your point. I just don't feel like writting it all out.

[tracky]

OK, let's see...basically, I didn't really see any evidence that disproves any of what I said.

Then you are blind.

[Anne Lauren]

I have been enjoying reading this read. It's been stimulating, but putting that aside -- Anne Lauren, Ace schooled you on his one long post. Kudos to him because he hit the nail on the coffin.

And I disagree.

Yeah he broke out a freakin' term paper. Just not motivated to debate.

[marsdaddy]

Yeah he broke out a freakin' term paper. Just not motivated to debate.I say he "Qdropped you". Ace, that was ace!

I can see that you're not motivated to debate. Maybe this thread should have been a poll?

[Ace42X]

Yeah he broke out a freakin' term paper. Just not motivated to debate.

That was an off the cuff rant, not a debating posture. And it was hardly long.

[adam_f]

I remember reading a Hardy Boys book called 'The Hardy Boys and the Case of the Curious Hand'

[BangkokB]

You need to read "Men are in Bars and Women love Penis"

This thread made Dr. Phil (http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/news/2004nov/dr_phil_2.gif) weep and have his minions put you on their speedial to be his next guest

[GreenEarthAl]

I think Anne Lauren's basic premise is sound, even for how antagonistically and judgementally worded it is.

Ace's counter-flame provided some highly entertaining antagonistic judgementalism in the other direction.

Speaking for myself as a man, I tend to sexually evaluate most every woman I see. I had once trained myself to do otherwise, but it required work and vigilence and didn't really make me all that happy. Stripped of our layers of enculturation or guessing at prehistoric male behaviour I would say that men probably would or did just spread their seed and then look to spread their seed again. It was probably pretty important for the proliferation of our species back when we were more vulnerable.

I further think that that base sexualization instinct in men is amped up in modern times by the advertizing industry. Corporations in general have removed elements like critical thinking from us as much as possible, and that makes all kinds of hyper-sexual more workable.

[Planetary]

Here's a funny

always on point...



I'd help the obese one because with that amount of weight, shes more likely to be injured from falling over.
^rancid beasties

haha!

[Planetary]

why do men go out to bars and clubs? To dance and socialize? More than likely it's sexually driven...

you're right, men don't want to socialize and have fun.

[alexandra]

this is so last year.

[Medellia]

Name a specific example of how these basics don't apply?
Gay men.

PS-"Male race" what the hell kind of shit is that?

[TurdBerglar]

i just figured i'd make an appearance here in this thread

[kaiser soze]

My brother...which is a term used for a male...made these comments during a discussion we had.


it's disturbing you're having pillow talk with your brother...but it's hot too

[Medellia]

Anne, Faith, you both know if it was a man who started this thread you, along with every other woman on this board would be up in arms about such sweeping generalizations about our gender. And rightfully so. So why is it okay for us to do the same thing to dudes? If you're going to paint all men with the same brush, at least try not to sound like a complete idiot while doing it.

[GreenEarthAl]

Men and women are different. With appologies to my transgendered friends in between.

But seriously, there are sweeping generalizations that can be made about them. Some are physiological. For example. Men are generally much better at growing facial hair. Not true in every single case, but in the overwhelming majority of cases. Women certainly have the edge in terms of nurturing babies in their uterus and lactating and the like. Others are psychological and therefore the lines blur much more easily. Still, there is physiological and chemical basis driving these differences and some of the differences are exacerbated by our cultures socialization and some of the differences are curtailed by modernity. So it is all very confusing.

Still, it remains a valid point, men are more inclined to sexualize and objectify the world around them. It can be fairly easily overcome and overcome to the extent where it becomes subconscious. But I still agree that male mamals of a reproductive age tend to instinctively think of sex when they encounter a viable reproductive individual of their species. (and for some males the species thing is not a strict requirement).

[befsquire]

i didn't read this thread in it's entirety because i'm tired. and, i really don't care if i'm repeating someone.

you can make many generalizations about both sexes and be right part of the time. if i said that women are emotional and crazy, i'm guessing many people would agree and point to anne as an example.

[Ace42X]

Still, it remains a valid point, men are more inclined to sexualize and objectify the world around them.

A point I was only half-heartedly trying to make is that you are on vary thin ice when you try to use evolutionary arguments to try argue about the present day behaviour of man.

There is a tendancy to sophistry and over-simplification, and it borders on a naturalistic fallacy. Perhaps it should be a corollary that when someone argues about what is from a position of what was, that is also part of said fallacy...

Firstly, numerous mammals are completely monogamous. The idea that "all men want to spread their seed as much as possible" is a complete fiction. Infact, monogamy can be traced to a set of genetic markers. Laboratory experiments have shown that in the test species of rodents, turning on or off those particular genes associated with monogamy can have a direct effect on the mating habits of the rodents - whether they mate of life or not.

Thus, to make sweeping decisions about "men's genetic behaviour" is quite quite wrong. Depending on the individual's genes, socialised behaviour could be counter-acting the monogamous inclination of an individual's genetic code. Their will could be over-riding their instinctive inclinations through social factors (IE they are addicted to sex, they are conditioned by the sociological rewards of being seen to be desirable / virile, etc).

This could be the case just as much as men are "naturally inclined to sleep around, and it is only social pressures holding men into place".

Likewise, if we were to perform the same fallacious analysis of women's behaviour with poor justifications based on biology, we'd end up with the conconclusion that women are genetically manipulative. Women synchronising their periods is thought to be an evolutionary mechanism designed to stop men rotating women. By synchronising the fertility cycles, it helps guarantee that offspring gain equal attention from the biological father, etc.

From this would we say that "women are generally gold-diggers, whose socialisation with men is limited to wheedling out financial (IE material) support and guaranteeing that the father won't disown the mewling brat that the mother has tried every trick in the book to guarantee he must be tied down to."

Doesn't ring quite so true as the "men generally are sleazy" argument, does it? But it has precisely the same basis in fact.

Really, saying "Men are... because of evolutionary genetics" is pseudo-science that has been popularised by talk-shows and magazines, and is accepted because it sounds right rather than it can be seen to be right.

[adam_f]

This thread has come a long way since Anne said that men like sluts.

[GreenEarthAl]

That was really informative and has me entertaining new information and altering my perspectives. However, I must admit, that I have difficulty letting go of the hypothesis. I tend to believe that behaviour is determined by socialization much more than by genetics and chemicals and the like, but still, it's been drummed into me into me so thouroughly that males are, to a certain extent, slaves to hardwired chemical combinations comprised largely of snakes, snails, tails of young dogs and the like, that I can't really release the idea.

Also, would, necessarily, indicate that I objectify women voluntarily. And that makes the inner buhdda sad. I much prefer to think that there's some precisely worked out proportions of various spheric curvatures and symetries that make me involuntarily randy.

Guess I'll live either way.

[kaiser soze]

I remember when I was a kid my kickball used to get me horny

[Ace42X]

I was the main one who said people are pretty shit in general and animals rock

Petty thief, and now a zoophile too?

[kaiser soze]

or maybe she's a pet-o-phile?

[Medellia]

First of all motherfucker, I didn't say all men.
No, you just said the vast majority. You also told Anne that she was "pretty much on target". Remember? Moron.
And besides this is Faith you're talking to here. I was the main one who said people are pretty shit in general and animals rock so why would I be "up in arms" if someone said the a large number of women are jealous bitches?
If it was a guy that made such a stupid stereotypical assumption about all women and then claimed that those of us who aren't like that are liars, yeah you would be up in arms. Really, replace the word "men" with "women" in the first post and replace all the male stereotypes with female stereotypes. You wouldn't get pissed if a guy said that?
And for your last little "comment"...your insult has no basis...you're just saying it because you think it sounds smart alecky and good, not because it is the truth. Come the fuck off of it.
That last comment was directed solely at Anne. I thought about specifying it, but I thought you would be intelligent enough to get that. Looks like I was wrong.

[The Notorious LOL]

sounds like the banter of manic depressive women who have got the shit end of the stick in relationships. Rather than changing their perspective on life they just assume all men fall into this demographic and continue to get shit on until they balloon up, go thru menopause, and begin collecting ceramic foxes and forwarding emails about "why chocolate is better than men!"

[Rancid_Beasties]

To be honest, I always thought Faithbanks and Anne Lauren were the same person. This thread has somewhat confirmed my suspicions.

Which one is the one that met loppfessor or something?

[The Notorious LOL]

whyd you edit the quote, faithbanks? I thought my reply was funny...the ceramic foxes and menopause thing. Gold!


Generalizing a sex is really no difference than generalizing a race. Its just more socially acceptable in some sense. If I forwarded emails at work about "Why Chocolate is better than Indians!" Id get fired in a heartbeat.

Its really all about exposure to the people you know or date. If you have a shitty streak or your insecurites shine thru in your persona...that will be projected towards those who persue you. In a lot of ways the mating and dating thing is very similar psychologically to animalistic instincts with the inclusion of mind games and bullshit.

[Rancid_Beasties]

Why did you think we were the same person? That's funny.

I have never met Loppy is person, so it must be Anne.
I dunno you just have similar names. You seemed to be the more sane face of anne or something. Also you two quite often agree.

[Documad]

sounds like the banter of manic depressive women who have got the shit end of the stick in relationships. Rather than changing their perspective on life they just assume all men fall into this demographic and continue to get shit on until they balloon up, go thru menopause, and begin collecting ceramic foxes and forwarding emails about "why chocolate is better than men!"
:o

You don't set out to be a "ceramic fox collector," you know. It just sort of happens. You see a ceramic fox on a card table at a flea market and you buy it as an ironic statement because you're not the ceramic animal collecting type. A few months later you see another one and you decide that it will be hilarious when friends come over to your house and see the ceramic foxes on your shelf. But then the friends see the foxes and they start giving you more foxes and suddenly it's your "thing" and then people are buying you expensive ceramic foxes instead of the ironic flea market ones and you want to get rid of them all, but you can't throw away all these visible gifts. Then a crazy temp gives you a ceramic cat with a bible saying on it and you want to kill yourself.

[Documad]

I know that everyone has been dying to know what I think about this issue.

I <3 men, in part because every single guy I know who has a daughter says the thing Faith quoted about how they're scared to let their daughter out in a world full of young guys like them who are driven by raging hormones.

People (men AND women) are kind of scary when you see them up close and get to know their secrets and fantasies. That's why it's better to just avoid people altogether if you can.

Turns out that I can't.

[The Notorious LOL]

:o

You don't set out to be a "ceramic fox collector," you know. It just sort of happens. You see a ceramic fox on a card table at a flea market and you buy it as an ironic statement because you're not the ceramic animal collecting type. A few months later you see another one and you decide that it will be hilarious when friends come over to your house and see the ceramic foxes on your shelf. But then the friends see the foxes and they start giving you more foxes and suddenly it's your "thing" and then people are buying you expensive ceramic foxes instead of the ironic flea market ones and you want to get rid of them all, but you can't throw away all these visible gifts. Then a crazy temp gives you a ceramic cat with a bible saying on it and you want to kill yourself.





:D

[Loppfessor]

I love when Anne drops in for a visit....something interesting always happens

[Sarky Devotchka]

I think that the range of human behavior is too broad to be boiled down into one thread that seems to be about only the interactions between white american frat boys and sorority girls.

I have male friends, and I've had sex with a couple of them, made out with a few more...we're all still friends. They're not scared of me, I'm not in love with them. And they're not staying friends with me on the off chance I might put out...I mean, if they were, I admire their patience because it's been a good many years for some of them. Plus, it's funny to poke boys in the bum and go, "ha ha, sometime we kiss. ffft"

I'd bang all kinds of dudes if there weren't diseases or babies to be had.

I'm not sure what that makes me? an enlightened psuedo-slut?

[Ace42X]

a lot of times dudes will even admit that they're dogs. "That's just the way we are man."

How naive are you people? Of course men are going to try to abrogate their responsibilities by saying "hey, it's not my fault baby, we're all like that!"

As if that were some sort of excuse. What, you expect them to go "Hey, I'm sleazy, but don't hold it against me, 'cause I'm so loveable!" ?

*AND* the myth also allows guys who aren't getting any (or are just convincing liars) to pull out the old "And I'm not like that, so I'm special" line.

Which is bullshit, there are plenty of guys like that out there, they just don't go around hitting on you girls, so you dopey bints don't end up riding their jocks.

[GreenEarthAl]

How naive are you people? Of course men are going to try to abrogate their responsibilities by saying "hey, it's not my fault baby, we're all like that!"

As if that were some sort of excuse. What, you expect them to go "Hey, I'm sleazy, but don't hold it against me, 'cause I'm so loveable!" ?

What responsability is being abrogated and how does the adjective sleazy get dragged into this. Especially in light of your whole genetic marker revalation?

[kaiser soze]

it's not just men...

I want to be just friends with this girl I was momentarily intimate with a month or so ago and now she won't talk to me because she wants more, but I won't use her or be in it for all the wrong reasons (ie: the sex was good...she said it was nice...toot toot!), but I'm just not ready for a relationship...too much on my plate and I want it to be 100% real

[Ace42X]

What responsability is being abrogated

Social ones. When you enter a relationship there is a degree of implied fidelity. This involves not trying to nail every chick you meet or demean your significant other.

and how does the adjective sleazy get dragged into this.

Paraphrasing of Anne's posts. The inability to socialise with women without trying to hump them *is* pretty sleazy.

Especially in light of your whole genetic marker revalation?

In that anyone can play the "baby, I'm different" card, irrespective of their genetics or socially learned personal predilictions. Of course it is in men's best interests to create excuses for behaviour that suits them, for example "it's in my nature'.

Even accepting that some people "can't help it" (Which I think would only apply to a very small minority, IE psychopatholical people), that certainly wouldn't equate to the "all men" generalisations abundant in the thread.

The old "everyone else does it, so why shouldn't I?" rationalisation is just as false in this context as in all the others.

[fucktopgirl]

anyway female and male can be sleazy ,stupid and manipulatives!In both sex you have the vampirerace who just want to take advantages and full the other of shit to get sex/money .MAn are more simple and straigh forward,women are crazy and manipulatives.So that said,you get what you are!You are honnest,then honnesty gonna come around;you are full of shit and fake,that what you will get!