Frontline: The way music died

[ASsman]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/music/view/


Watching it... now. Watch it, come back discuss.

[EN[i]GMA]

Already seen it, bitch!

Me and my homies at Frontline is way on top of this sshiiiiiiit. Those nuckaz at PBS are off da CHAIN.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go listen to Roxy Music.

[Documad]

How does Sarah Hudson get on all the TV shows?

She was featured in an episode of Project Runway, and I still have her awful single stuck in my head nearly a year later.

[ASsman]

I'd hit that.


And that's the way music, uh died, if it was a kitten.

[DroppinScience]

Haven't watched it yet, but here's another Frontline program that is definitely related to music and commercialism and all the like...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/view/

That one blew me away. I'm positive this one will do the same...

[DroppinScience]

Just finished watching the documentary. Really good!

Anyways, I'd say what bothers me most in terms of the music industry is all the ownership stuff. Especially Clear Channel. With a company like them controlling radio playlists, they inhibit the possibilities for artists to be properly exposed.

And the invention of MTV is certainly a double-edged sword (on the one hand, it's cool to see music videos, but it's a problem when image trumps the substance).

Yeah, I think we gotta get rid of agendas from people who don't know the first thing about music.

P.S. - Sarah Hudson's song was pretty awful and her lack of album sales was deserving. But hey, maybe the Frontline documentary will boost her sales. ;)

[BryanFerryRocks]

GMA']Already seen it, bitch!

Me and my homies at Frontline is way on top of this sshiiiiiiit. Those nuckaz at PBS are off da CHAIN.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go listen to Roxy Music.

I like the cut of your jib.

[Qdrop]

those are all so old, you newbs...

but good.

yeah, "the way music died" is a pretty depressing look at the state of things...and goes hand in hand with the "cool" report.

it's all about corporations and marketing....everything, all, entirely....

corporations and marketing.

a financially-backed attack on the mass mind.

[EN[i]GMA]

But on the other hand, music is almost entirely subjective.

What difference does it make in terms of which artist is popular or whatever? If people enjoy the music (And people do, sadly) does it REALLY matter?

I mean sure, it would be cool if more people listened to the Beasties, Gang of Four or other bands that I like, but are my favorite bands really 'better'?

[EN[i]GMA]

Haven't watched it yet, but here's another Frontline program that is definitely related to music and commercialism and all the like...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/view/

That one blew me away. I'm positive this one will do the same...

Seen it as well.

I've watched a few Frontline programs. They're always impressive and usually depressing.

[ASsman]

Yes, just give the masses what they want.... or tell them what they want.

[EN[i]GMA]

Yes, just give the masses what they want.... or tell them what they want.

If they aren't told by these guys, they'll just be told by someone else.

[ASsman]

:confused:

[EN[i]GMA]

:confused:

Like I said, it doesn't really matter what form of music you like or why.

If you weren't influenced by the music industry, you either wouldn't listen to music much or would get your influence somewhere else.

Neither is really 'better'.

[Funkaloyd]

That kind of musical relativity might be acceptable elsewhere, but here, on the BeastieBoys.com message board, it's a self-evident truth that performers (not artists by any measure) like [Simple Plan/Spears/Timberlake] are objectively worse than, well... others.

If you disagree, then you are wrong.

[FunkyHiFi]

Neither is really 'better'.
Uh oh, the "everything is great because it would be politically incorrect to think otherwise" concept rears it's ugly head. :(

[ASsman]

I don't agree Enegma, and neither does my current blood alcohol level right now...

The Cure + Liquor = Awesome.

[EN[i]GMA]

That kind of musical relativity might be acceptable elsewhere, but here, on the BeastieBoys.com message board, it's a self-evident truth that performers (not artists by any measure) like [Simple Plan/Spears/Timberlake] are objectively worse than, well... others.

If you disagree, then you are wrong.

I think those artists suck, yes.

I think they're worse than the Beasties or whatever, yes.

I tell people that artists like this suck all the time.

But the fact is, a subjective opinion is not inherently right.

You can say the Beasties made more complex music, more intelligent music, more important music, more 'musical' music, whatever, but you can't say there were 'better'.

Just as Ocean Blue isn't 'better' than Puke Green, the Beasties aren't 'better' than simple plan.

But my opinion is that Blue is a better color and the Beasties are better, and I can back this up, but I can't prove it.

[EN[i]GMA]

Uh oh, the "everything is great because it would be politically incorrect to think otherwise" concept rears it's ugly head. :(

Not at all.

I'm not politically correct at all.

This is simple logic.

Music is entirely subjective. The fact is, for whatever reason, these people LIKE this shit.

Let them, I say.

I'll stick with my good music.

[EN[i]GMA]

I don't agree Enegma, and neither does my current blood alcohol level right now...

The Cure + Liquor = Awesome.

Interesting how you spelled my name with an 'e'.

That's how I spell it most other places.

And I would think that combination would be very depressing, but yes, awesome.

[ASsman]

GMA']Not at all.

I'm not politically correct at all.

This is simple logic.

Music is entirely subjective. The fact is, for whatever reason, these people LIKE this shit.

Let them, I say.

I'll stick with my good music.
Bah, bollocks. No one is saying anything about what music is liked or not it is about quality. It is like saying Television is a great thing simply because of its popularity, when really all it is is a mind rotting for of lazyness. I just see something wrong with manufacturing art. That's all.

[EN[i]GMA]

Bah, bollocks. No one is saying anything about what music is liked or not it is about quality. It is like saying Television is a great thing simply because of its popularity, when really all it is is a mind rotting for of lazyness. I just see something wrong with manufacturing art. That's all.

I agree.

That's why I'm listening to David Bowie right now and not some top-40 pop shit.

I can't imagine how much different my life would be if I didn't listen to good music.

[ASsman]

And that's why I piss on Britney Spears, that and because it arouses me.

[fucktopgirl]

GMA']Neither is really 'better'.

this is where i oppose in some way!I do think that music is a subjectives thing but that does not mean that all are equal in quality.There is good music like there is bad music.There is people with good music taste and others who just did'nt have the chance to discover it!Intelligence influence music and vice versa.Shitty music just numb your spirit,make your stupidier,make you think /feel lame emotions ,,,at the opposite you got good music who trigger you in a good way!

anyway all i am saying,there is a better music groove!And i feel for people who listen to simple plan and christina aguichera,they are kinda doomed!

[DroppinScience]

GMA']What difference does it make in terms of which artist is popular or whatever? If people enjoy the music (And people do, sadly) does it REALLY matter?

For me, I just really can't stand the "agendas" behind the Clear Channel radio stations or MTV and I think this documentary highlighted my frustrations. I would much rather prefer something (and for right now, I'm putting aside whether I'd like the music in question or hate it) be played because the DJ is playing something they're really passionate about and/or it's something that the station's listeners want to hear.

With this situation, we have songs played because the higher-ups think it's something the "masses" will want to hear. There's no room, like the doc says, for a DJ in Philadelphia to play something they want to play when there's a pre-determined playlist made up by some faceless entity.

That's what pisses me off. Ownership really has to change...

[FunkyHiFi]

Here's something to discuss:

Who do y'all think the popularity of classical and jazz has diminished so much the last decade or so?

This isn't a theory-sales of these music genres in that time have gone down the toilet. Some proof of that can be seen in stores like Tower Records & Wherehouse Music, which usually had separate rooms for jazz/classical, but now have removed them and shifted their dwindling remaining stock to a little corner in the back.

I'll openly admit I'm not a fan of either music category, but it does worry me that such music-which does require a certain amount of....mental capability.....to appreciate properly-is much less popular at the same time the popularity of shallow/self-absorbed reality shows has skyrocketed; pants that allow others to see one's ass crack just walking down the street; and people that need a TV on their cell phone to keep up with celebrity poker. Coincidence, or.........?

[DroppinScience]

Here's something to discuss:

Who do y'all think the popularity of classical and jazz has diminished so much the last decade or so?

This isn't a theory-sales of these music genres in that time have gone down the toilet. Some proof of that can be seen in stores like Tower Records & Wherehouse Music, which usually had separate rooms for jazz/classical, but now have removed them and shifted their dwindling remaining stock to a little corner in the back.

I'll openly admit I'm not a fan of either music category, but it does worry me that such music-which does require a certain amount of....mental capability.....to appreciate properly-is much less popular at the same time the popularity of shallow/self-absorbed reality shows has skyrocketed; pants that allow others to see one's ass crack just walking down the street; and people that need a TV on their cell phone to keep up with celebrity poker. Coincidence, or.........?


Interesting angle. Speaking for jazz, maybe dwindling sales are because there hasn't been anything worthwhile from the genre in... well, quite a long time (though the likes of Norah Jones and Diana Krall seem to sell well, but I'm unsure if you'd call them "jazz").

When I look to jazz, I think of stuff from the '50s and '60s like Miles Davis, John Coltrane and of course bossa nova (Getz, Jobim, Gilberto, et al). Modern stuff doesn't spring easily to mind...

[EN[i]GMA]

Interesting angle. Speaking for jazz, maybe dwindling sales are because there hasn't been anything worthwhile from the genre in... well, quite a long time (though the likes of Norah Jones and Diana Krall seem to sell well, but I'm unsure if you'd call them "jazz").

When I look to jazz, I think of stuff from the '50s and '60s like Miles Davis, John Coltrane and of course bossa nova (Getz, Jobim, Gilberto, et al). Modern stuff doesn't spring easily to mind...

Quite true.

I was just wondering why there wasn't another Coltrane/Davis.

I would say that the way the industry has become is part of it.

Also people don't care about musicianship anymore. Hell, I really don't.

[DroppinScience]

GMA']Also people don't care about musicianship anymore. Hell, I really don't.

Explain, please

[EN[i]GMA]

Explain, please

Well, we're both fans of Gang of Four, but I don't like them for their musicianship so much as their song writing and innovation.

Gill wasn't that 'good' of a guitarist, certainly nothing compared to say Satriani or Vai or whatever, but that doesn't matter to me.

I would say he's one of my favorite guitarists but I wouldn't say he was one of the best.

Damaged GOods, for example. One of the best guitar parts ever, I think, but it's not really very complex.

Or the bassline on To Hell with Poverty. Not really that complex but funky as fuck.

I'm not concerned with talent really. I mean, Public Image Ltd. weren't big on musicianship, but Metal Box is fucking great.

The Beasties weren't great musicians but made easily my favorite music.

I

[DroppinScience]

GMA']Well, we're both fans of Gang of Four, but I don't like them for their musicianship so much as their song writing and innovation.

Gill wasn't that 'good' of a guitarist, certainly nothing compared to say Satriani or Vai or whatever, but that doesn't matter to me.

I would say he's one of my favorite guitarists but I wouldn't say he was one of the best.

Damaged GOods, for example. One of the best guitar parts ever, I think, but it's not really very complex.

Or the bassline on To Hell with Poverty. Not really that complex but funky as fuck.

I'm not concerned with talent really. I mean, Public Image Ltd. weren't big on musicianship, but Metal Box is fucking great.

The Beasties weren't great musicians but made easily my favorite music.

I


Gotcha, and I'd say I mostly agree. However, I'll go one step further and say that these guys' musical limitations is part of what makes them great. They're examples of people who've done really awesome music despite the lack of skill. In fact, BECAUSE of this lack of skill, they're awesome.

In essence, it's making something out of nothing. And I dig that.

[BryanFerryRocks]

Or, conversely, you could be great due to ability.

*cough*EMERSONLAKE&PALMER*cough*