Censorship

[Lex Diamonds]

Do you think pop culture censorhip (eg. MTV) should be stronger or more lenient? I mean, sometimes its just ridiculous the shit they take out. Like you can't even say the word "weed" on TV anymore.

For example, this is how the censored version of Regulate (by Nate Dogg and Warren G) sounds when played on MTV:

Sixteen in the *blank* and one in the *blank*
Nate Dogg is about to make some *blank* turn *blank*
Now they *blank* and *blank*, its a tad bit late
Nate Dogg and Warren G had to regulate

And in Nas' "I Can" when he goes:

You could use a lot of help you know
Thinkin life's all about *blank* and *blank*

Seriously, if the unedited versions of these songs were played I doubt it would lower the world's percentage of murderers or drug-dealers. It just ruins the flow of the songs and the constant stuttering just sounds annoying when you hear it.

On the other hand, there's videos with hundreds of women dressed in their underwear pretending to ride dick and shaking their asses at the camera. I think this is more likely to fuck up a young child than a few bad words. It's like, double standards and shit man.

What y'all think?

[alexandra]

i'd rather see them ban like half of today's "music"videos. that'd be impossible tho'.


i'm too tired to give any real comment right now. but you've made a good thread.

[jabumbo]

i think it's annoying


most kids swear anyway, and i think language is the least of most kids problems

[Lex Diamonds]

most kids swear anyway, and i think language is the least of most kids problems
Word up. (y)

[Zonkie]

I presonally don't like cersorship, and I find cuss words *unless used hateful towards someone* unoffensive.

Who got to decide what words were cuss words and what weren't? It bothers me.

Of course, there are lots of people who don't want their children learning these things because of how aggressive everyone has become these days. You can't even say the word queer without people thinking you're making fun of a homosexual.

But for me, I would like it if they would just speak with no blanks or beeps on t.v. That's why I like comedy central. They do the secret stash things, then there was that one episode of south park with the shit counter.

I think everyone's just make such a big deal out of EVERYTHING so that nowadays, people get offended so easily. I find it stupid that people can say bitch on t.v. but not dick. And sometimes vice versa.

Then of course, I would like them to take off most rap videos from t.v. simply because it's the same thing over and over and over again and lots of the videos just suck.

[kleptomaniac]

i don't think there should be any censors (when it just comes to words, that is). it stunts our vocabulary. children need to learn some new words once in a while to keep up with everyone else. :rolleyes:

[abcdefz]

I think it's pretty hypocritical. If a song needs to be "censored," just don't play it. Period.

Or the artists involved should refuse it.

As a writer, I've turned down magazine publication once because they wanted to change "offesnive" content. It's like, "Well, that's the story, and apparently, you don't want my baby delievered whole, so, no hard feelings."

Pretty simple.

[kleptomaniac]

I would like it if they would just speak with no blanks or beeps on t.v. That's why I like comedy central. They do the secret stash things, then there was that one episode of south park with the shit counter.

and sometimes at 1 or 2 in the morning, they show the movie with no censors whatsoever. (anything goes!)

sorry. just putting that out there.
i watch too much south park.

[Lex Diamonds]

"Well, that's the story, and apparently, you don't want my baby delievered whole, so, no hard feelings."
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Sometimes swear words can add to a song, like to express anger or shock listeners. And sometimes they just happen to be in there cuz of the way the artist talks. If everybody in the world had swear words blanked out of their speech, many many people would be misunderstood or unable to get their points across.

[abcdefz]

....yeah, and sometimes it's just cheap, exploitative immaturity. But the thing is, if that's what the artist wants to put out, it should be take it or leave it, and the artist and the broadcast stations should have the courage of their convictions, whatever they may be. Instead, everybody prostitutes their integrity for a quick buck.

[SobaViolence]

i think this has something to do with the PC thread...




Parents, have you ever tried turning off the TV, siting down with your kids, and hitting them?

everything can be blamed on parents and their role, or lack thereof.

[Zonkie]

i wish the media would take up the first amendment which entitles us to freedom of speech. sure that may sound stupid and like a cliche response, but they really should.

the biggest thing that bothers me is that they censor more people's opinions than they do their words.

for example, what's the name of that one woman who ripped a picture of the pope at one of her concerts? the whole world seemed to hate her after that. i mean, it's just a small thing. it's not all huge and it's not a big deal. you can express whether you don't like someone. celebrities just get higher say.

if just an average citizen ripped up a picture of another average citizen, no one would care. i damn the american media for many reasons, this is just one of them.

[jabumbo]

the original reason for my wal-mart hating was because they would censor, or refuse to sell many albums because of the lyrical content.

[Ace42X]

Censorship is thoroughly worthless and totally inneffective. Compare what gets censored to what doesn't and you can instantly see how ridiculous and self-defeating it is.

[kleptomaniac]

for example, what's the name of that one woman who ripped a picture of the pope at one of her concerts?

sinead o'conner did that on saturday night live

[abcdefz]

I think people make too big a deal over words. I mean, who the hell are they fooling? People can put two and two together over the word that's missing and figure it out. A word is a word is a word. It's just that society puts a stigma on certain words and people cannot think for themselves. Ridiculous.



...people can "think for themselves" and still come to conclusion that some things are objectionable.

For instance: a dude who rides my bus has a "Fuck Bush" shirt. Now, I don't have a real problem typing "fuck" on this site, because it's all about context, and -- though this is a public site a four year old could hop onto -- there's an overwhelming chance that someone who willingly accesses a public forum on a Beastie Boys website has at least braced him- or herself for the possibility of encountering "bad language."

The dude on my bus, however -- just because you ride a public bus doesn't mean that you have given implicit consent to availing yourself of those words. Some might argue that, in this day and age, using public transportation is a form of consent for whatever language or cell phone noise or public urination happens to be going at the moment, but I think it's still not in the bounds of "public decency" -- i.e., its is designed to be an uncomfortable and even hostile act.

The conclusion you may reach, even if you disagree is that I can "think for myself" about these things, and I may still have a clear, pretty sound reason to object.

[Zonkie]

The conclusion you may reach, even if you disagree is that I can "think for myself" about these things, and I may still have a clear, pretty sound reason to object.

word

[Lex Diamonds]

I agree with you 100% a-z, and those people that go around screaming "FUCK CENSORSHIP!" are immature pricks. Of course we need to regulate what people see, because otherwise there would be no such thing as innocence. And that would suck, and take all the fun out of kiddie-rape.

[Ace42X]

and I may still have a clear, pretty sound reason to object.

And if I censor your objection?

[Zonkie]

I agree with you 100% a-z, and those people that go around screaming "FUCK CENSORSHIP!" are immature pricks. Of course we need to regulate what people see, because otherwise there would be no such thing as innocence. And that would suck, and take all the fun out of kiddie-rape.


ah, yes, true true. if there was no censoreship, there would be no right and wrong.

but then at the same time, who got to decide what was right and wrong?

i always complain in my head about if even wouldn't have taken the fruit from the tree, we would walk around unashamed and not know what was good and what was evil. *except for killing someone, that's just known as a big no no. aswell as other violent acts*

[abcdefz]

And if I censor your objection?



"Censor" is a word that's about as misused as "genius."

Censorship wouldn't be TPK erasing my words on here. I'm free to speak my thoughts elsewhere, and there are these things called "copying machines" that are pretty handy for things like "handbills."

Censorship would be a government authority destroying my work and imprisoning me or threatening to do so if I continued to speak. That's censorship.

Walmart chooses not to carry the latest piece of shit rap CD by DJ Minstrel? Pffft, ha, etc. That ain't censorship. 'Cause if that's how you define censorship, take a good look, because I'm betting you ain't providing a retail outlet for Mssr. Mistrel, either.

That's choice -- another word people throw around as important. But only for their preferred causes, apparently.

[Ace42X]

"Censor" is a word that's about as misused as "genius."

Censorship wouldn't be TPK erasing my words on here.

Actually, it would be, genius.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=censor

"tr.v. cen·sored, cen·sor·ing, cen·sors

To examine and expurgate."

[abcdefz]

Actually, it would be, genius.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=censor

"tr.v. cen·sored, cen·sor·ing, cen·sors

To examine and expurgate."


ex·pur·gate Audio pronunciation of "expurgate" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kspr-gt)
tr.v. ex·pur·gat·ed, ex·pur·gat·ing, ex·pur·gates

To remove erroneous, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise objectionable material from (a book, for example) before publication.





...in other words, censorship is the prevention of publication or speech. It's not the denial of a particular forum.


Read the definition of "censor" again -- the first five definitions of "censor" as a noun... what a censor does:

cen·sor Audio pronunciation of "censor" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snsr)
n.

1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.
2. An official, as in the armed forces, who examines personal mail and official dispatches to remove information considered secret or a risk to security.
3. One that condemns or censures.
4. One of two officials in ancient Rome responsible for taking the public census and supervising public behavior and morals.
5. Psychology. The agent in the unconscious that is responsible for censorship.

[Ace42X]

To remove erroneous, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise objectionable material from (a book, for example)

How is that not the same as an administrator deleting your words? Because *you* do not object to them? Surely they are objectionable to the censor, in order to get censored?

Or are you hung up on the "before publication" thing? This isn't a printed book, so it can have material deleted online with the same effect.

Censorship wouldn't be TPK erasing my words on here.

"Be" and "erasing" are both verbs. Using the noun form definition would be wrong, obviously. To be a noun, you'd have to rework that to say "TPK wouldn't be a censor just by erasing my words here."

[abcdefz]

How is that not the same as an administrator deleting your words? Because *you* do not object to them? Surely they are objectionable to the censor, in order to get censored?

Or are you hung up on the "before publication" thing? This isn't a printed book, so it can have material deleted online with the same effect.



...to me, there's a huge difference between "You can't say that here" and "You will be silenced." That's what censorship is to me: using legal authority to prevent a person's idea from reaching a potential public.

[abcdefz]

Sure they can but they don't have the right to force other people to bow down to their ideals.



...at what point does citizenship come into play?

There are laws I'm not crazy about, but I obey them because I'm convinced it makes society a little better.

[abcdefz]

"Be" and "erasing" are both verbs. Using the noun form definition would be wrong, obviously. To be a noun, you'd have to rework that to say "TPK wouldn't be a censor just by erasing my words here."




Fair enough.

But don't you see a distinction between the verbs edit and censor? Because we judge when we edit, no?

[Ace42X]

...to me, there's a huge difference between "You can't say that here" and "You will be silenced." That's what censorship is to me: using legal authority to prevent a person's idea from reaching a potential public.

Deleting words is silencing people, and has precisely that effect. If someone removed words from a book before publication, that is still censorship, irrespective of how many people could theoretically have a glance at it before it gets wiped. If the administrators deleted all words of dissent instantly, surely that would be silencing them?

And censorship is still censorship, even when people choose not to apply it. Plenty of media is passed through a censor (and is thus 'censored') and yet not expurgated or altered.

as for "edit / censor"

"I wrote a book about how communism sucks, the communist government edited out all the criticisms."

"I wrote a book about how communism sucks, the communist government censored all the criticisms."

The difference?

[abcdefz]

Deleting words is silencing people, and has precisely that effect. If someone removed words from a book before publication, that is still censorship, irrespective of how many people could theoretically have a glance at it before it gets wiped. If the administrators deleted all words of dissent instantly, surely that would be silencing them?



I don't agree at all. That makes everyone who doesn't have a website or isn't willing to turn their home into a giant bulletin board a "censor," because their privacy is a de facto act of denying people a voice.

If I get banned here, I move along elsewhere. I still have a shot an gaining an audience.

[marsdaddy]

The inference of smoking up, killing, or having sex is cool to show, just don't show the real thing, warts and all. To me, this is really the problem.

I don't have to face it yet, but I'm pretty sure I'll use the parental controls on my remote, someday. I was scared by Midnight Express at age 8 and wouldn't want to do that to my kid. And despite claims to the contrary, parents are not watching their kids 24/7.

[abcdefz]

...one of the most interesting threads in ages and I'm about to leave work. :D

[Ace42X]

I don't agree at all. That makes everyone who doesn't have a website or isn't willing to turn their home into a giant bulletin board a "censor," because their privacy is a de facto act of denying people a voice.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

If I get banned here, I move along elsewhere. I still have a shot an gaining an audience.

"If I get banned in Communist China, I can still move to America and talk about the dangers of communism. That's not censorship, honest!"

[Zonkie]

...at what point does citizenship come into play?

There are laws I'm not crazy about, but I obey them because I'm convinced it makes society a little better.

i obey laws because there are things that people shouldn't do *like kill and such* and because i don't like cops, and the cops in the city aren't too fond of me. one of them still stops when he sees me in my driveway at night.

i think this will be my last contribution to this thread. it'll start to get overwhelming. this is just adding to the point that everyone makes too big of a deal of what's what should be aloud and what should be banned.

[CrankItUp!]

fart
turd
twat
dick

Essential fun words to say everyday ! (y)

[abcdefz]

"If I get banned in Communist China, I can still move to America and talk about the dangers of communism. That's not censorship, honest!"



Um.... no; please note what I said about legal authority coming down on someone's head as being a requisite element of censorship.

Yes, you can be censored in China and not America, or Ohio and not California (for a while, anyway). Yup.

[Ace42X]

I enjoy laws because I am a policeman, and most people will believe anything I tell them. And then give me blowjobs when I let them off their non-crimes.

Being a policeman is a bit like being god. But kinkier.

[Lex Diamonds]

...one of the most interesting threads in ages
Well, what can I say? I try. :D

[kleptomaniac]

i have a feeling no one is ever going to vote for those last two. even if that's what they really think :rolleyes:

[Ace42X]

please note what I said about legal authority coming down on someone's head as being a requisite element of censorship.

"Legal" authority? Unimportant. What is legal authority other than having the power to compel people to acquiesce?

You could argue that a tyrannical regime is illegitimate, and thus can have no *legal* authority whatsoever. A person can have constitutionally enshrined rights guaranteeing unfettered freedom of expression, but still have their writing passed through a thus *illegitimate* but authoritative government censor.

You're splitting hairs now.

Deletion of words by a forum moderator clearly is, by the very dictionary definition, censorship.

Even ignoring the above semantic exatitude, technically forum moderators have a legal responsibility for the content of their forums (sorry, but that's the case here at least, and I'd imagine legally in most parts of the world too) as well as the power (and thus the authority) to silence people. Both by banning or altering their words.

If I wrote a book and it was edited by someone to remove criticisms of the government, that would be censorship. The fact that other media is open to me (radio, for example) does not mean I haven't been censored.

Sorry, but those are what the words actually mean, no matter how much you'd like them to have a meaning more to your liking. Perhaps you could create a new term to express your concept?

Censiting? Censorising?

[Zonkie]

Well, what can I say? I try. :D

your avatar stopped moving.

THANK GOD! he kept going to the beat of my music, and it was freaking me out.

Ok, THIS is my last post here....

[guerillaGardner]

Personally I'd censor all of MTV. It is an utter piece of crap - an insult to the intelligence. I'd have it pixellated out with a constant bleep playing over everything thats said on it and I'd censor advertising if I could.

I think its a fricking shame that our right to free speech has been so horribly abused by the constant trash that attempts to turn us all into perfectly gluttonous little consumers (which is what MTV amongst others is there to do). We have the right to watch it but does that mean to say we should?

Unfortunately its our right to watch anything that misinforms us, distorts reality, preaches stupidity, violence, greed and intolerance.

The thing is that the people who have interests in censoring what we need to know just direct the censorship debate. If they tell us straight to our faces that you can't say 'weed' or 'fuck' or whatever then we fixate on that and not the real censorship issue - can news channels say half the shit the do, how does the media represent the voice of dissent, are they honest, are they telling the whole story.

If you get caught up in a crap debate about profanity then you miss the real issues. Who gives a damn if you can swear? Whether or not we censor it really won't make a difference in anyone's lives whatsoever. If we are going to spend any time or thought on censorship we have to make sure it's the kind thats worth worrying about.

[fucktopgirl]

censorship is stupid!Swear should be allowed!

they show on t.v bloody murder,sex,insane shit , the war ,people dying of hunger but no"fuck"!NO swearing because its could be harmfull to the popualtion!

please let me laught!hahaha

what the fuck!This just nonsense!

[BangkokB]

I'll take the hypocricy a step further. Here in the Land of Smiles~and don't get me wrong I love it here~ cable TV is censored in that Sex is bad, cigarettes(even on the Simpsons is blanked out), and extreme cursing is cut out. I tried watching Casino and it was a joke...These aren't people that you're suppossed to like. They are antihero's. When Joe Pesci playing a thug gangster is sugarcoated to the extreme that he appears to be a regualar Joe Wholesome then the whole point is taken out of the movie. And this is all in the guise that "we" need to do this for "the children". Bollocks, ballderdash and monkeyshines if that's the case. When lack of parenting trumps adults freedoms then something is gravely wrong within'. Note: that's only for cable and not cinema movies
Whereas in Malaysia I saw The Punisher when I was in Panang and there the censorship is taken to a whole new level. They not only cut out what "they" don't deem appropriate, but they go as so far as to add their 2 cents worth in. Case and Point was at the end of that dreadful movie before the credits started rolling in Arial font was added that The Punisher was shortly caught for the crimes he'd committed and was now serving 25-Life in a Maximum Security Prison. I knew then and there that wasn't your typical Hollywood ending and as soon as it was out on DVD I was able to confirm my suspicion. They have the gall to add in whatever they see fit.

So bear in mind the pendulum can swing as far as that.

[Lex Diamonds]

Good point Bangkok, that shit really makes you realise how stupidly goody-goody some people in the world are. (n)

So who won the abcdefz Vs Ace42X argument then??