Greatest pop albums [Archive] - Beastie Boys Message Board

abcdefz

01-10-2006, 11:20 AM

...I think pop is like porn, in that it's hard to define, but we tend to know it when we see it.

Well, not "see it" but "hear it," in this case.

Anyway.

What are your nominees for best pure pop album?

(I'm not including greatest hits packages)

I'm thinking

Marshall Crenshaw
The Beatles - Abbey Road
Paul Simon - Graceland
Prince - Sign o' the Times
Prince - 1999
Squeeze - East Side Story
Elvis Costello - Imperial Bedroom
Elvis Costello - Armed Forces
Paul McCartney - Band on the Run
Fleetwood Mac - Rumors
Crowded House
Big Star - First
Big Star - Radio City
Electric Light Orchestra - Eldorado
Electric Light Orchestra - A New World Record
Sly and the Family Stone - Stand
The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
The Cars
The Traveling Wilburys
Wilco - Summerteeth

...I'm kinda on the fence about whether I'd consider Paul's Boutique to be a pop album. I'm tempted to say yes.

DigitalB

01-10-2006, 12:16 PM

I wouldn't have called any of those albums pop, too me pop is weak bubblegum recordS, Boybands or novelty tunes.

B4BY 4NN

01-10-2006, 12:23 PM

I wouldn't have called any of those albums pop, too me pop is weak bubblegum recordS, Boybands or novelty tunes.

Pop as in popular as in A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE IT.

abcdefz

01-10-2006, 12:26 PM

I think of "pop" as a type of music that's heavy on accessible melody, and it's clearly crafted to be people-pleasing and (hopefully) have a big audience.

"Pop" has a bad name, which is unfortunate.

...and I don't think that, just because something gets popular, it's a pop record; that's not quite it. Otherwise that Chant album a few years back is a pop record, and I don't think it is.

Nevermind probably is, which was probably why it sort of pissed off Cobain -- that it did what it was supposed to do. He seemed to have a love/hate relationship with pop.

DigitalB

01-10-2006, 12:29 PM

Pop as in popular as in A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE IT.

Whats a lot of people??? All types of music is popular music then.

abcdefz

01-10-2006, 12:32 PM

Whats a lot of people??? All types of music is popular music then.

...yeah; I don't think that works.

Guy Incognito

01-10-2006, 01:13 PM

Whats a lot of people??? All types of music is popular music then.

Yup! Nobody needs to be embarrassed about liking any piece of music ..ever! Most people on this forum are well rounded musically and are able to share their opinions. I have got into some new stuff since i joined and some of that was stuff i considered "pop" and some harder stuff.
There should be no labels. Its ok to like what you like even if some other people dont or think its too "pop". If it was up to me , record shops would just be a big pile of discs in the middle of the floor and loads of headphones and it would be a free for all and if you like it you but it and nobody can classify it. Sorry for ranting but I needed to get that off my chest.

Best "pop" album ever - Screamadelica - Primal Scream - it was very popular!

Ally Al

01-10-2006, 02:14 PM

kaiser soze

01-10-2006, 02:30 PM

Thriller michael jackson

i wouldn't condier Wilco pop, but i dig em much

abcdefz

01-10-2006, 02:31 PM

Prince - Sign o' the Times
Prince - 1999

ok i'll bite with these, i'd say both these albums have great "pop" moments but i wouldn't consider them to be pop albums in that mainstream commercially viable way. With Sign you have U Got The Look, maybe Play in the Sunshine and at a stretch Starfish and Coffee. Then with the 1 9 9 9, there's the title track of course and little red corvette both massive singles and great pop songs, even though the line "she had a pocket full of horses, trojans and some of em used" might be a problem for some :D, outside of those two would you consider the rest of the album pop ? i mean lady cabdriver ??? filthy funk maybe, pop ? no

Quick rethink on SOTT, again the title track was a great lead single and the video was a good pop moment and I could Never Take The Place of your man had a good pop feel to it, but the whole album ? hmmm i'm not sure

i love both these albums obviously so would be interested in what you think

....I think they're both pop albums, yeah. Actually, I think the song "Sign o' the Times" is the item between the two which is least concerned with being a pop song, which is interesting, since it's arguably his most socially conscious song.

I actually think Purple Rain is his most pop album, but I don't think it's a hands-down classic; stuff like "Computer Blue" is too close to being filler.

The reason I think this stuff is pop is because it's trying to be accessible (however challenging/controversial the stuff is, lyrically), and it's crafted to hopefully reach a large audience. Whereas, say, The Beautiful Children is clearly not a pop record.

I guess "pop" means crafting something for a conceivably mainstream audience without necessarily conceding the hallmarks of a certain genre. So Sinatra's "Come Fly With Me," James Brown's "Popcorn," AC/DC's "You Shook Me All Night Long," Carole King's "You've Got a Friend," Eminem's "Cleanin Out My Closet" -- it's all pop.

Hmmm... it's so hard to define. Like, I'd say Aftermath, Some Girls, and Tattoo You are pop albums; Exile on Main Street and Sticky Fingers probably aren't.

abcdefz

01-10-2006, 02:34 PM

Thriller michael jackson

That's a pop album, for sure; I just think it's really, really uneven.

i wouldn't condier Wilco pop, but i dig em much

I think that album (Summerteeth) is a pop record. I don't know think they're a pop band anymore.

White Stripes are probably a pop band, come to think of it.

kaiser soze

01-10-2006, 02:37 PM

I would consider Summerteeth a bouncier album, but pop? Did they plaster MTV, commerials, and the radio with their music?

I never thought Wilco was pop, personally I think they're lower on the radar than Travis (who i enjoy as well)

abcdefz

01-10-2006, 03:21 PM

...I guess it just sounds like an accessible, audience-reaching album to me. I don't think an album has to be popular or company-supported or even toured-behind to be "pop."

gaselite

01-10-2006, 06:16 PM

Uhhh, I'm sure it's been brought up before, but pop is popular. Paul's Boutique is not a pop album. Just about every other Beasties album is :p

Parkey

01-10-2006, 06:49 PM

The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground

paulb

01-10-2006, 07:13 PM

U2 - Best of 1980 - 1990

does that count?

Videodrome

01-10-2006, 07:43 PM

I really can't think of a better pop album than Michael Jackson's Thriller. I thought Justin Timberlake's album was dope and I consider that pop. I wouldn't say it's the greatest or anything.

SobaViolence

01-10-2006, 07:48 PM

The White Album Beatles

DroppinScience

01-10-2006, 08:12 PM

I think some of you guys are associating "pre-fab" (as in, pre-fabricated... like boy bands or pop tarts) stuff with pop music. And that's unfortunate...

There's two sides to the "pop" coin. Sure, there's the "It's sold a billion records, so it's popular" angle to pop music (and that means almost anything qualifies as "pop" if it sells enough).

But pop music also means something that's so infectiously catchy, you can't help but bob your head to it.

So in short, listen to a-z. He knows what time it is! (y)

yeahwho

01-10-2006, 08:27 PM

abcdefz

01-11-2006, 08:52 AM

The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground

...I'd definitely say Loaded is a pop album. Oh, yeah. That's like their Mamas and Papas rekkid. (y)

abcdefz

01-11-2006, 09:00 AM

Uhhh, I'm sure it's been brought up before, but pop is popular. Paul's Boutique is not a pop album. Just about every other Beasties album is :p

....I'm talking about a sensibility rather than a sales status.

So, for instance, would you call Gorecki's Third Symphony (the Upshaw performance) a pop album? 'cause that was a number one record in some European countries, I think.

Using a sales figure to define whether something is "pop" or not (as opposed to "popular") would mean that, given enough time, something eventually "becomes" pop, or that in some countries, something is "pop" and in some countries it's not. See what I mean?

Ally Al

01-11-2006, 10:33 AM

I actually think Purple Rain is his most pop album, but I don't think it's a hands-down classic; stuff like "Computer Blue" is too close to being filler.

yeah, i'd go with that, but i think it was mean to be his most pop album. i'd disagree about CB tho i love that song. purple rain was the prince album that i loved then got sick of BUT i've recently fallen back in love with it, infact moreso because the songs i skipped past as a youf i really like now

The reason I think this stuff is pop is because it's trying to be accessible (however challenging/controversial the stuff is, lyrically), and it's crafted to hopefully reach a large audience. Whereas, say, The Beautiful Children is clearly not a pop record.

ok i get your point on what you see pop as but with SOTT i don't see how it was accessible to a larger audience. to prince fans yes, but at the time i don't remember it winning him any new fans. for me it was prince pleasing him self totally and doing his thang.

btw what is the beautiful children ? i don't know that track

Hmmm... it's so hard to define. Like, I'd say Aftermath, Some Girls, and Tattoo You are pop albums; Exile on Main Street and Sticky Fingers probably aren't.[/QUOTE]

not a great deal of stones stuff in my collection so unfortunately that doesn't clear things up for me too much, it's cool tho (y)

abcdefz

01-11-2006, 10:59 AM

ok i get your point on what you see pop as but with SOTT i don't see how it was accessible to a larger audience. to prince fans yes, but at the time i don't remember it winning him any new fans. for me it was prince pleasing him self totally and doing his thang.

I can see that; I wouldn't hang my hat on either way of looking at it.

btw what is the beautiful children ? i don't know that track

...it was his sort of noodling, lite-jazzy Jehovah's Witness CD. I think it's out of print already. I haven't heard it, but I see it in the used music stores.

Parkey

01-11-2006, 11:08 AM

I'd nominate Blur's - Parklife too.

Ally Al

01-11-2006, 12:26 PM

[QUOTE=abcdefz]I can see that; I wouldn't hang my hat on either way of looking at it.

are you a fan of SOTT ? Prolly my fav Prince album

abcdefz

01-11-2006, 12:39 PM

are you a fan of SOTT ? Prolly my fav Prince album

Yeah. I think it's his best album so far (that I've heard).

I need to catch up with Crystal Ball (as issued), Musicology and stuff like that.

icy manipulator

01-11-2006, 12:43 PM

I really can't think of a better pop album than Michael Jackson's Thriller. I thought Justin Timberlake's album was dope and I consider that pop. I wouldn't say it's the greatest or anything.
you are a faggot. you take it up the anus

Documad

01-11-2006, 04:57 PM

BubbleGum

Def; If it's ever been on K-Tel or Ronco, it's in. If it features hand claps, cow bells, syrupy orchestration, walls of sound, wrecking crews, sha-la-las, toothy teen idols, candy-based metaphors for carnal acts or lyrics about hugging, squeezing and rocking all night long, it's in.
I thought K-Tel was a regional thing from here?

I define pop more narrowly. It's single-driven rather than album oriented, which is why this is a tricky question. Clever to take out greatest hits packages because it would be all greatest hits -- like The Beatles red album.

My answers:
Crowded House - Crowded House
Fleetwood Mac - Rumours (I think it's bordering on rock but whatever)
I don't flat out love any of The Beatles' pop albums, but I'll still pick Help! because it's the most consistent.
And maybe Wings - Band on the Run. maybe not

And I'm saying the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack, because while most soundtracks are either mood music or a collection of hits, I think that almost all of this was made for the movie.

1999 has a lot of filler too -- should have been one LP.
Off the Wall had better songs than Thriller. In fact, other than Billie Jean, Thriller sounded old and dated the year it was released (I mean, I was an early Prince fan for goodness sakes). I blame Quincy's production and his tendency to throw too much stupid shit on it (Eddie Van Halen). Also the song Thriller and definitely the video were so crap yet everyone treated it like the second coming. Don't Stop Till You Get Enough is better than everything on Thriller. And some Jackson 5 singles are even better. And Justin Timberlake's Cry Me A River just might be even betterer.

So sad to leave so many great pop artists (like Hall & Oates and The Cars all the girl groups and early groups who did one good song an album) off the list but it's all about the hits for me.

DroppinScience

01-11-2006, 05:36 PM

I think I'll nominate all three "Nuggets" box sets for consideration for "Greatest pop albums" (y)

yeahwho

01-11-2006, 06:07 PM

I blame Quincy's production and his tendency to throw too much stupid shit on it (Eddie Van Halen).
You were all over it and so close to the pop song for the ages, the template for proper popping, Van Halen's "Jump"!

I get up, and nothing gets me down.
You got it tough. I’ve seen the toughest around.
And I know, baby, just how you feel.
You’ve got to roll with the punches to get to what’s real
Oh can’t you see me standing here,
I’ve got my back against the record machine
I ain’t the worst that you’ve seen.
Oh can’t you see what I mean ?
Might as well jump. jump !
Might as well jump.
Go ahead, jump. jump !
Go ahead, jump.

Of course technically it is not an album...but that album has Panama on it too, I think. And that one song negates 11 filler songs.

Documad

01-11-2006, 06:21 PM

You were all over it and so close to the pop song for the ages, the template for proper popping, Van Halen's "Jump"!
I'll never forget when Van Halen went from being a bloated cock rock band to being the little rascals. Van Halen always had one or two good songs an album.

DS: I just can't get into Nuggets. Much of it sounds like the worst of old FM radio. Maybe if I just heard a song now and then. And no compilations!

I want to add The Police -- Regatta de Blanc or whatever it's called. Possibly even The Ghost in the Machine. And Talking Heads' Remain in Light because it's their most pop album, but now I've gone to far and pretty soon I'll be picking some Roxy Music so I must stop.

yeahwho

01-11-2006, 06:24 PM

I'll never forget when Van Halen went from being a bloated cock rock band to being the little rascals. Van Halen always had one or two good songs an album.

And one or two clangs on the cowbell away from Bubblegum.

DroppinScience

01-11-2006, 06:26 PM

DS: I just can't get into Nuggets. Much of it sounds like the worst of old FM radio. Maybe if I just heard a song now and then. And no compilations!

Maybe you'd like "Children of Nuggets" (which encompasses the revivalists from 1976-1996)? There's stuff like The Cramps, Screaming Trees, Primal Scream, The Bangles, The La's, The db's, The Soft Boys, etc. etc.

yeahwho

01-11-2006, 06:28 PM

Robyn Hitchcock is a perfect example of pop done right. Yet it isn't popular. So what is it? Hidden pop?

Documad

01-11-2006, 06:32 PM

Maybe you'd like "Children of Nuggets" (which encompasses the revivalists from 1976-1996)? There's stuff like The Cramps, Screaming Trees, Primal Scream, The Bangles, The La's, The db's, The Soft Boys, etc. etc.
True, but I would probably own most of it already.

yeahwho, are The Replacements pop? I thought of them but can it be "pop" if it wasn't popular? I suppose so. And if Big Star made the list . . . .

yeahwho

01-11-2006, 06:37 PM

True, but I would probably own most of it already.

yeahwho, are The Replacements pop? I thought of them but can it be "pop" if it wasn't popular? I suppose so. And if Big Star made the list . . . .

See...this is the problem, I think the Repalcements are pop, plus a lot of Husker Du. especially their cover of the MTM theme "Love is All Around', all that Minnesota stuff is hard to define...but brilliant!

DroppinScience

01-11-2006, 10:52 PM

FYI yeahwho and Documad...

There is such a thing as "Underground Pop" and "Indie Pop."

Documad

01-11-2006, 10:58 PM

"underground pop" is an oxymoron -- indie pop is possible

DroppinScience

01-12-2006, 12:25 AM

"underground pop" is an oxymoron -- indie pop is possible

Am I the only one who's aware of all these sub-sub-genres?

Pop Underground is power-pop that came after the original golden age of power-pop in the '70s and very early '80s. The main difference is time period, so Pop Underground is still distinguished by power-pop's hallmarks -- sweet British Invasion melodies and harmonies, ringing but muscular guitars. Yet because Pop Underground extends the life of a form whose most vital stages of development are past -- and a form that was already classicist to begin with, at that -- its artists either update the formula with contemporary twists, or simply re-create that formula to the best of their ability. The biggest Pop Underground artists -- Matthew Sweet, Teenage Fanclub, the Posies, Jellyfish, Material Issue, Jason Falkner, the Velvet Crush -- usually had extensive followings among alternative rock listeners, whether through their loud, crunchy guitars (Sweet in particular) or their intelligent, literate lyrics. However, there was also a substantial camp that remained content to record classic-style power-pop with no thought of appealing to collegiate audiences. These artists generally replicated the styles of original power-popsters like Badfinger, Big Star, and the Raspberries for the benefit of a small but rabid cult audience.

Indie rock's more melodic, less noisy, and relatively angst-free counterpart, Indie Pop reflects the underground's softer, sweeter side, with a greater emphasis on harmonies, arrangements, and songcraft. Encompassing everything from the lush orchestration of chamber pop to the primitive simplicity of twee pop, its focus is nevertheless more on the songs than on the sound, and although both indie pop and indie rock embrace the D.I.Y. spirit of punk, the former rejects punk's nihilistic attitude and abrasive sonic approach.

yeahwho

01-12-2006, 01:59 AM

Squeeze-East Side Story
XTC-Oranges and Lemons
Robyn Hitchcock-Fegmania
The Replacements-Don't Tell A Soul
Cheap Trick-Heaven Tonight
The Kinks-Lola vs. the Powerman & the Money-Go-Round, Pt. 1
Descendants-I Don't Want To Grow Up

A trillion Pop songs are out there, but the ones above I qualify as all excellent Pop Albums.

I'm excluding the Beatles.

abcdefz

01-12-2006, 10:31 AM

I want to add The Police -- Regatta de Blanc or whatever it's called. Possibly even The Ghost in the Machine. And Talking Heads' Remain in Light because it's their most pop album, but now I've gone to far and pretty soon I'll be picking some Roxy Music so I must stop.

I was thinking about Synchronicity and Little Creatures.

Matt

01-14-2006, 03:52 AM

I've got a Motown comp. called 25 #1 Hits From 25 Years, and the first three sides are some of the greatest pop songs ever written. the fourth side I completely avoid, because the 80's were not a good time for Motown, in my opinion.

Elvis Costello Punch the Clock
New Order Brotherhood
The Clash Combat Rock
Devo Oh No! It's DEVO

Volczek

01-14-2006, 09:29 PM

re: Prince

I'd agree with the original poster in classifying those Prince albums as pop albums. Sign O The Times is one of the greatest Pop songs ever. Period.

Other Great Pop Albums:

Essentially the entire Beatles catalogue.
Pet Sounds
.
..
...

This is just too much for me. I would like to go on listing albums but I'm not in the right frame of mind. I think the true playground of Pop is found in the SONG. Take for example the song Anarchy in the UK by the Sex Pistols. Great song. Pop song. Great Pop Song. That said, I wouldn't necesarily classify Nevermind the Bollocks as a Pop album.

Also,
re: Paul's Boutique

It is a tough call on considering that one a Pop Album or not. I would lean that it is, as well, but part of me doesn't want to consider it a Pop Album, really. There are a TON of songs that are poppy as hell on that album, but at the same time it has such a weird feeling to it as an album, particurally with B-Boy Boulibasse... which in many ways is as poppy as hell, but in many ways it's the most inaccessable thing. It truly is a remarkable and mindbending album, and this is why I think despite it's inherent poppiness it can't be classified simply as a great Pop album.

Licensed to Ill is mos def a pop album though. A great pop album.

Drederick Tatum

01-15-2006, 06:59 PM

that Justin Timberlake album is a guilty pleasure of mine. he may sound and look like a hairy girl but he's making more money and hitting it way more than you so shut up.

Volczek

01-15-2006, 11:53 PM

that Justin Timberlake album is a guilty pleasure of mine. he may sound and look like a hairy girl but he's making more money and hitting it way more than you so shut up.

hey man you don't have to fall back on that shit. JT's solo shit is dope. period. just cuz some hater dude has no taste doesn't mean you have to qualify yours.

Mr_Complex

01-16-2006, 03:42 AM

DroppinScience wasn't aware of sub-genres until he was aware of AllMusic.com

abcdefz

01-16-2006, 12:32 PM

I've got a Motown comp. called 25 #1 Hits From 25 Years, and the first three sides are some of the greatest pop songs ever written. the fourth side I completely avoid, because the 80's were not a good time for Motown, in my opinion.

...I used to have that album.

Does Motown do some shoddy hits repackaging, or what? Their CD box is crap, too -- design-wise. Their best music is still superb, of course, but MAN do they disrespect their history.