Europe's Slow Demise

[sam i am]

So I'm reading an article in USA Today recently, and this one writer is talking about the religious divide between Europe and the USA...you know, differences in beliefs, church attendance, etc., et al.

The interesting portion came as follows :

"Among the consequences of Europe's abandonment of its religious roots, and the moral code that derives therefrom, is a plunge in its birth rates to below the replacement level. Abortion, birth control, acceptance of gay marriage, and casual sex are driving the trend. Europe is 'committing demographic suicide, systematically depopulating itself,' according to Weigel.

United Nations population statistics back him up.

Not a single Western European country has a fertility rate sufficient to replace the current population, which demographers say requires 21. children per family. Germany, Russia, Spain, Poland, and Italy all have rates of about 1.3 children, according to the UN. Even Roman Catholic Ireland is only at 1.9, while the Czech Republic is even lower, at 1.2. The US rate, which has remained stable, is slightly more than 2 children per woman.

Fifteen countries, 'mostly located in Southern and Eastern Europe, have reached levels of fertility unprecedented in human history,' according to the UN's World Population Prospects 2004 revision.

As children grow scarce and longevity increases in Europe, the continent is becoming one vast Leisure World. By 2050, the UN projects, more than 40% of the people in Italy will be 60 or older. By mid-century, populations in 25 European nations will be lower than they are now : Russia will lose 31 million people, Italy 7.2 million, Poland 6.6 million, and Germany 3.9 million. So, Europe is abandoning religion, growing older, shrinking, and slowly killing itself. These are signs of a society in eclipse - the Roman Empire writ large."

Now, there are certainly opinions embedded in there that are debatable, so what do you think about it? Is Europe in decline, unable to defend itself and slowly losing clout through population declination? Or, can Europe remain a world player in spite of the pressures that are being self-applied and externally applied?

[minijosh]

Sounds like there is a war raging in Europe. Time to send in the US troops there and have sex with all the women so they can repopulate those countries who need help. Must be something in the water :eek: .

[sam i am]

Sounds like there is a war raging in Europe. Time to send in the US troops there and have sex with all the women so they can repopulate those countries who need help. Must be something in the water :eek: .

Dude....amp down the testosterone, K?

They'll just keep importing from the Middle East and Turkey....that's where all the workers to support them in retirement will come from.

[Schmeltz]

How much time did you invest in reading that article? You'll never get that back, you know.

[EN[i]GMA]

So I'm reading an article in USA Today recently, and this one writer is talking about the religious divide between Europe and the USA...you know, differences in beliefs, church attendance, etc., et al.

The interesting portion came as follows :

"Among the consequences of Europe's abandonment of its religious roots, and the moral code that derives therefrom, is a plunge in its birth rates to below the replacement level. Abortion, birth control, acceptance of gay marriage, and casual sex are driving the trend. Europe is 'committing demographic suicide, systematically depopulating itself,' according to Weigel.

United Nations population statistics back him up.

Not a single Western European country has a fertility rate sufficient to replace the current population, which demographers say requires 21. children per family. Germany, Russia, Spain, Poland, and Italy all have rates of about 1.3 children, according to the UN. Even Roman Catholic Ireland is only at 1.9, while the Czech Republic is even lower, at 1.2. The US rate, which has remained stable, is slightly more than 2 children per woman.

Fifteen countries, 'mostly located in Southern and Eastern Europe, have reached levels of fertility unprecedented in human history,' according to the UN's World Population Prospects 2004 revision.

As children grow scarce and longevity increases in Europe, the continent is becoming one vast Leisure World. By 2050, the UN projects, more than 40% of the people in Italy will be 60 or older. By mid-century, populations in 25 European nations will be lower than they are now : Russia will lose 31 million people, Italy 7.2 million, Poland 6.6 million, and Germany 3.9 million. So, Europe is abandoning religion, growing older, shrinking, and slowly killing itself. These are signs of a society in eclipse - the Roman Empire writ large."

Now, there are certainly opinions embedded in there that are debatable, so what do you think about it? Is Europe in decline, unable to defend itself and slowly losing clout through population declination? Or, can Europe remain a world player in spite of the pressures that are being self-applied and externally applied?

And I read in the Economist: http://economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5358255

[sam i am]

^^^^^^

That article is even better.

Sorry, Europe....guess you really ARE waning as a global power.

Who will step up? The US (continuing)? China? India?

[sam i am]

How much time did you invest in reading that article? You'll never get that back, you know.

How much time did you invest in typing that reply? You'll never get that back, you know.

[ChrisLove]

I dont know whether or not a lower population growth really will impact on peoples wealth or not but I would say that even if it did it would be a price worth paying to finally see off religion.

It is noteworthy also that the only impact on GDP per head is during a in the short medium turn as the population adapts to its new demographic structure, long term growth should not be effected. And I really doubt short term growth would be either.

[Ali]

So, by that logic, countries with high birth rates are better off... like Africa.

[Ali]

^^^^^^

That article is even better.

Sorry, Europe....guess you really ARE waning as a global power.

Who will step up? The US (continuing)? China? India?People love to worry—maybe it's a symptom of ageing populations—but the gloom surrounding population declines misses the main point. The new demographics that are causing populations to age and to shrink are something to celebrate. Humanity was once caught in the trap of high fertility and high mortality. Now it has escaped into the freedom of low fertility and low mortality. Women's control over the number of children they have is an unqualified good—as is the average person's enjoyment, in rich countries, of ten more years of life than they had in 1960. Politicians may fear the decline of their nations' economic prowess, but people should celebrate the new demographics as heralding a golden age.

[EN[i]GMA]

I dont know whether or not a lower population growth really will impact on peoples wealth or not but I would say that even if it did it would be a price worth paying to finally see off religion.

It is noteworthy also that the only impact on GDP per head is during a in the short medium turn as the population adapts to its new demographic structure, long term growth should not be effected. And I really doubt short term growth would be either.

Sounds right to me.

I would say overall GDP would either level off or grow slowly, but GDP per capita would increase.

[synch]

So I'm reading an article in USA Today recently, and this one writer is talking about the religious divide between Europe and the USA...you know, differences in beliefs, church attendance, etc., et al.

The interesting portion came as follows :

"Among the consequences of Europe's abandonment of its religious roots, and the moral code that derives therefrom, is a plunge in its birth rates to below the replacement level. Abortion, birth control, acceptance of gay marriage, and casual sex are driving the trend. Europe is 'committing demographic suicide, systematically depopulating itself,' according to Weigel.
You forgot to mention that we are obviously all going to hell.

[DroppinScience]

Sounds like there is a war raging in Europe. Time to send in the US troops there and have sex with all the women so they can repopulate those countries who need help. Must be something in the water :eek: .

Damn, if that's gonna be what it comes down to, sign me up! I'll "volunteer" my "services" for France, or Italy or Spain or Sweden... whichever nationality is hottest. ;)

[Schmeltz]

I would like to thank user "Schlitty" for making a point (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=61887) both wittily expressed and relevant to the discussion.

[zerohour]

You guys are suckers. I learned about population decline in industrialized countries and I didn't even have to read.

This was a sweet program on NOVA:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/worldbalance/

[D_Raay]

I would like to thank user "Schlitty" for making a point (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=61887) both wittily expressed and relevant to the discussion.
Wonderful...

[Ace42X]

RE: Population decline - its quality, not quantity, that counts.

[EN[i]GMA]

RE: Population decline - its quality, not quantity, that counts.

Exactly.

[Lamarock]

another call out here,
I think it is good to stay up to par with the religious trends especially in Europe. Everyone knows that its predominantly catholic but there is some countries in the north that practice slightly different aspects of the church.

[yeahwho]

How much time did you invest in reading that article? You'll never get that back, you know.

The funny thing is I couldn't read past this part of the post,

The interesting portion came as follows : Among the consequences of Europe's abandonment of its religious roots,

Now that I reflect on my insensitivity towards Europe's downspiral, I feel obliged to pass the hat this Sunday and volunteer as a missionary to Amsterdam. I think I'm onto something here, gots to get me a copy of that USA Today. (y)

[synch]

I don't think that is the proper usage of the word "missionary" to describe what's on your mind ;)

[yeahwho]

I don't think that is the proper usage of the word "missionary" to describe what's on your mind ;)

What can I say? I'm a Holy man.

[Ace42X]

Everyone knows that its predominantly catholic

Hardly... Protestantism started in Europe you know. Greek / Russian Orthodox anyone? The Moors in Spain? Ottoman empire?

[sam i am]

Hardly... Protestantism started in Europe you know. Greek / Russian Orthodox anyone? The Moors in Spain? Ottoman empire?

Agreed.

Europe : wellspring of Lutheranism, Calvinism, and most of the major Protestant religious offshoots worldwide....

Thanks, Europe, from all of your friends here on the BBMB, for spiraling the Earth into blissful sinlessness and coercion of the masses through the opiate of religion :rolleyes: