Date tonight

[QueenAdrock]

So I'm not ready to date yet, I don't think. But this guy that I really, really liked in my senior year of high school asked me out to coffee so I said yes. He said we'd meet up at our old high school and go to Starbuck's to "talk about all that is Diana." I don't know what to make of it, and I've never been on a date before so I feel weird! Is it a date? Or not?

Ugh, this is why I loved Wayne so much. I could just be comfortable and not worry about relationships. I haven't had crushes since I was 17 and I'm 22 and being single is just really weird and confusing. :-/

[hpdrifter]

Woah, I must have missed something. When did you and Wayne break up? It must have been super recently. I thought I remember you posting something like 2 weeks ago about him.

Yes, its a date.

[DandyFop]

WHAT THE FUCK???????

[mickill]

Yeah, I don't think I knew either.

Who's Wayne?




I'm sorry, that was insensitive. I do know who Wayne is but I couldn't resist making the wisecrack. Sorry to hear that, though, for real.

[TAL]

You were all waiting for me, right? (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=62607)

[Bob]

so wait, did he just come out of the blue and ask you? has he been waiting like 4 years for you to become single or something? wierd

[QueenAdrock]

I knew this was a bad idea...even seeing Wayne's name makes me cry. I don't know what to do.

[DandyFop]

Sorry for my initial reaction there. Just, obviously surprised.

I know I don't even know you very well, but I have always admired you on this board and, I'm just sorry that you have to deal with this. Being newly single is the most bizarre feeling in the world.

Good luck, if you decide to go. It might be good for you, you never know...

[hpdrifter]

If he's too much of a pussy to stand up to his father and his father is too narrow minded to see that you make him happy then you're well rid of the situation. I know it doesn't feel like that now, but give yourself some time.

:( :( :(

I've been, there. I know what that feels like, you'll be fine. Just lean on your family and friends as much as you need.

[fucktopgirl]

i guess thta is gona be good for you,,changing your idea!

[QueenAdrock]

Yeah, you and me both were surprised. I think I should go just because I need new friends and to get out and I haven't seen him in a long time.

I had told him Wayne broke up with me and I'd like to see him sometime, and invited him to go out with my friends. He declined, but asked me out to coffee. Apparently he doesn't really go out, so...I don't know.

[QueenAdrock]

If he's too much of a pussy to stand up to his father and his father is too narrow minded to see that you make him happy then you're well rid of the situation. I know it doesn't feel like that now, but give yourself some time.

:( :( :(

I've been, there. I know what that feels like, you'll be fine. Just lean on your family and friends as much as you need.

He's tried to stand up to his father. But his father is extremely narrow-minded and I'm not allowed to go anywhere where his family is, and Wayne just wants me to be accepted. It's like having an extremely racist father who loves you and cares for you and supports you...what are you supposed to do? You're torn between your love of your family and their bigoted ideas. He doesn't deserve it, and neither do I.

[DandyFop]

if you don't mind telling, what exactly did he object to? I understand if you don't want to answer. Was it a religious thing?

[QueenAdrock]

I wasn't Jewish. I offered to convert, but according to his father, that's not good enough. According to his Rabbi, it's okay, I'd be considered a full-fledged Jew. So that just shows how racist his father is.

[DandyFop]

Oh my. That's just horrible. I dated an orthodox jew for about 2 years at the end of high school. It was so damn uncomfortable every time I was at their house. :( lame.

[cookiepuss]

He's tried to stand up to his father. But his father is extremely narrow-minded and I'm not allowed to go anywhere where his family is, and Wayne just wants me to be accepted. It's like having an extremely racist father who loves you and cares for you and supports you...what are you supposed to do? You're torn between your love of your family and their bigoted ideas. He doesn't deserve it, and neither do I.

well ya, but Wayne has to learn that even though blood maybe thicker than water he is his own person and what makes him happy isn't always going to make his family happy. Eventually he'll have to decide if he's going to scarifce his dreams and desires for the sake of his family or whether he's going to stand up for himself and live his own life. I garuntee you Wayne will regret his decison and it may cause him to end up resenting his family. but enough about him.

for you Queenie: Don't think of tonight as a date. regardless of what you think this gent's alterior motives are, you need to consider this a friendly outting and nothing more. You can use a distraction right now. let it be that and don't give it any expectations. try to have a good time and hopefully this dude will make you laugh. you need that. I wish you the best.

[Rock]

I wasn't Jewish. I offered to convert, but according to his father, that's not good enough. According to his Rabbi, it's okay, I'd be considered a full-fledged Jew. So that just shows how racist his father is.
What a cockface.

I can see his fathers concern if you were both different religions and what your children (if you were to have them) would be raised as (since most followers of the Judaism are pretty strict about the children being raised jewish, at least from what I have seen)...but since you offered to convert makes me think that his dad doesn't think your conversion is genuine which will effect the way the children are raised (bi religional (yeah yeah I know its not a word but you know what I mean)). Which in turn will probably add a lot of bumps in yours and Wayne's relationship.

Sorry yo, sorry.

[beastieangel01]

ouch, what a harsh and difficult situation. And even though it's not always easy to stand up to your parents, your father especially, I think if it was important enough, Wayne should have stood up to his father. Parents aren't always going to have their childs best interest in mind, and they are most definitely not always right.

I'm sorry, D. I think you should go have that coffee, it'll be nice to at least catch up with the guy, right?

<333

[tracky]

really sorry to hear about wayne :( fuckin' religion it's gonna be the end of us. you guys should elope (lb)

[roosta]

i cant believe that his dad wont even accept you converting to judaism. thats just mentalness gone mental.

[Rock]

I'm telling you. Pops thinks that she will not be a devout Jew which will effect the way the children are raised.

[Bob]

i'm taking a class on judaism right now, and we actually talked about the "problem" of intermarriage a few classes ago; basically, the idea is that jews have (more like had, most jews aren't this strict anymore, to my knowledge) very strict patterns of behavior to which they must adhere, like observing the sabbath, and uh...the other rules, too, i've only just started the class, i don't know. anyway, if a jew marries a non-jew, there's obviously going to be some mingling of culture, which makes observing the jewish rules very hard to do.

that's the answer i've been given anyway. i don't know if it works that way anymore, the course i'm taking is a history class, about palestine under the greeks and romans. i'm sure that after 2000 years, things might work differently. maybe his dad is just racist, i don't know.

either way, it all seems like a dumb reason to deny yourself (or others, in this case) the one you love, in my opinion. then again, i'm not an orthodox jew.

[g-mile7]

enjoy tonight and put the past behind...maybe this is the start of something better and more fufiling (lb)

[SobaViolence]

the only constant in life is change.


you will be fine.

[QueenAdrock]

either way, it all seems like a dumb reason to deny yourself (or others, in this case) the one you love, in my opinion. then again, i'm not an orthodox jew.

Neither is he. He's conservative Jew, which is in between orthodox and reform. Either way, all branches say that conversion is perfectly acceptable. They all prefer their sons/daughters to date Jews, though. I have the feeling that his dad isn't quite full-out racist, he just wants Wayne to be with someone who grew up Jewish RATHER than a convert, though a convert would be okay. Maybe some careful "Wouldn't you want to marry someone who grew up in the religion?" wordings. I don't know, I was never there for the conversations. What makes it weirder is when I talked to his mom, she said SHE was never there for the conversations either, but she "can't imagine" that her husband would not accept converts. She says that converts are "absolutely" considered Jews in her mind.

I don't know. I'm so confused, and I wish I could talk to Wayne but he's not calling and I'm not going to call him. I'm going to go out and have fun and have him sort things out for himself.

[g-mile7]

the only constant in life is change.


you will be fine.



deep

[Bob]

that is really fucked up, and even as religious tradition goes, it makes very little sense to me. something else must be going on, that's nuts.

[Planetary]

deep

you enjoy saying that? or are you just fascinated by phillosophy?

P.S. I'm sorry to hear about this whole situation, Queen.

[g-mile7]

you enjoy saying that? or are you just fascinated by philosophy?


the question inside the question...for it's the questions that drive us









He isn't worth the time Ms. Queen, thats how I feel because if it was really love then nothing should be allowed to get in the way, espcially such a insignifcant reason.

[cookiepuss]

I don't know. I'm so confused, and I wish I could talk to Wayne but he's not calling and I'm not going to call him. I'm going to go out and have fun and have him sort things out for himself.

Good idea. that's the best you can do. you mentioned that his grandfather was seriously ill and that is probably putting him under alot of stress, and it sounds like he's making very rash decsions. but you're right, he does have to sort it out for himself. and you need to move on for now and have fun. (y)

[hpdrifter]

I agree with Bob, there has to be something else going on, it just doesn't add up.

Maybe its more about race than religion. As far as I know, being Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a belief system. Maybe it has more to do with the dad wanting Wayne to marry someone of his own race.

Pretty fucked up either way.

[Planetary]

the question inside the question...for it's the questions that drive us.

deep

[SobaViolence]

there is a huge emphasis on purity in judaism.

the mother is the one who determines wether the child is jewish. if the sexes had been reversed, i think he would not be so worried about who his child dates/marries.


there is a reason for it, not that i agree. but i do understand.

[cookiepuss]

regarless...I think it's unfortunate when a family lets culture/race dictate who they care about or accept. right or wrong, justifications aside, I still feel it's unfortunate.

I use to date a guy (we'll call him joe for the purpose of this story) who's mother is Tawaniese and father is American. His father met his mother as a service man, fell in love and brought her back to the states. However, the american grandparents were not to happy about the union and as a result they never treated the joe and his sister properly. It went so far that they would go over to the grandparents house for x-mas and all the other grandkids would get presents except for joe and his sister. :( talk about cruel. Over the years it got better, but he never formed a bond with his grandparents. Surprisingly, as an adult Joe was pretty well adjusted to the whole thing and came to realize it had nothing to do with him, but it was his grandparents issue.

[ToucanSpam]

What the fuck is this? Queen, I require a PM. :confused:

[CrankItUp!]

Diana - my father is an asshole prejudice ex-marine with psycho mentality towards me ever having black girlfriends and black friends in general inside "his house". I'm 35 yrs old now and have been "out of the house" completely since the age of 18 because I chose to live my own life with whoever I wanted to hangout with and date - without the embarrassment of him pulling out a gun and threatening to kill anyone black in his home ( yes it happened - the mean-ass fucking bastard ). So what I want to tell ya is, if _____ is too scared to make a stand against his family instead of loving you in return for being a faithful girlfriend and rightfully choosing you over them - then at least don't be afraid to date others while he does the same and just possibly works up the guts to stand up to his family eventually or regrets later until its too late that.."You were the one that got away". (lb)

[Bob]

there is a huge emphasis on purity in judaism.

the mother is the one who determines wether the child is jewish. if the sexes had been reversed, i think he would not be so worried about who his child dates/marries.


there is a reason for it, not that i agree. but i do understand.

i know about the mother thing, but does she have to be born jewish, or is a convert ok, too? from what little i know (taking a class for 3 weeks doesn't make me an expert), it seems like the emphasis is more on purity of tradition rather than any racial thing.

[Freebasser]

I saw "Date tonight" and Bob's name, and for a minute I thought he'd actually asked that internet lady on a date.

For shame, Bob.

[QueenAdrock]

i know about the mother thing, but does she have to be born jewish, or is a convert ok, too? from what little i know (taking a class for 3 weeks doesn't make me an expert), it seems like the emphasis is more on purity of tradition rather than any racial thing.

Converting is perfectly fine for women to bear "Jewish" children. I talked to the Rabbi. He himself said that it doesn't add up either, and perhaps there's another factor involved, but many things don't add up. Wayne told me he loved me the day before and asked me to go up to Chicago to help him move out, and told me he was excited to be home so he could see me all the time. He then promised to come over to my house the next morning to see me. Then his grandpa went in the hospital, and he realized his dad will never accept me. The rabbi said that there are a few close-minded Jews who believe it's "ethnic," but that's not what they teach. But a lot of "religious" people go against their religion's teachings due to ignorance or bias. Or perhaps he didn't want me converting until he knew we were going to get married, and that's not in the very near future for either of us...whatever. I can make many guesses as to why he cracked, but I know he didn't want it - he had tears in his eyes when he gave me the letter.


AAAANNNYWAYS, the date! We went out for coffee and talked for 2 hours. We talked politics and history, and life stories and all of that, he asked if I needed to vent about Wayne and I said very little other than it hasn't worked out and it won't. He said he's gotten his heart broken each relationship. I kinda like him. Those 2 hours Wayne didn't even cross my mind, it was just on him. He said that we should get together more often. I don't think it was a date-date...but it was fun and I felt like my normal, happy self.

[TAL]

That's good to hear.

[Documad]

QA: I know you don't want to hear this, but If you've been with one person since you were a teenager, it will probably be a good thing for you to get out and meet new people. I'm glad that tonight felt fairly comfortable. You might not be ready for a date/date, but isn't it nice to know that other people care about you and value you? Congratulations on being brave enough to get out there.

I know it's difficult for you to come here, but I sure hope that you do.

[SobaViolence]

well, i can understand.

my dad always told me the first thing my grandad's parents said when he started dating my grandma was 'at least she's catholic'.

he was french canadian and she was irish canadian.

shit is tight. in the old country, you didn't marry anyone unless they were of the same stock. usually from the same village.

some things don't change. and i read that after the holocaust(sorry to bring this up) jews were either less strict or more strict about their traditions and culture.

[cosmo105]

QA: I know you don't want to hear this, but If you've been with one person since you were a teenager, it will probably be a good thing for you to get out and meet new people.
she is very, very right. you have to discover who you are on your own. all you know is him, and that's not enough. and come on...what about the bullshit he said to his friend afterward? these people are right, it doesn't add up. if he had the balls, and was truly committed to you, he would have stayed with you. but something else was up. so forget it. move on, and become an even better person for it. you shouldn't be this much of a mess over it. you deserve to be happy just as much as anyone else does.

[marsdaddy]

Diana, I'm sorry for your pain. Better to realize now that Wayne can't think for himself/stand up to his dad/love doesn't conquer all/etc. You'll be better off once you're through this time.

Also, no matter what, you have to take care of yourself. Eat, drink, and fake the merry part for a while.

BTW, your "date" at Starbucks sounds romantic. Did you get the chai? :p

[HEIRESS]

Im so sorry D :( :( :(

Im in the midst of some mutual macking with a jewish boy

I think he is from a non-orthodox familitsia though

[QueenAdrock]

she is very, very right. you have to discover who you are on your own. all you know is him, and that's not enough. and come on...what about the bullshit he said to his friend afterward? these people are right, it doesn't add up. if he had the balls, and was truly committed to you, he would have stayed with you. but something else was up. so forget it. move on, and become an even better person for it. you shouldn't be this much of a mess over it. you deserve to be happy just as much as anyone else does.

Yeah, it was bullshit what he said to his friend. But it's happened to many of my friends who had their hearts broken for reasons besides "I fell out of love with you," guys would rather feel anger towards the girl than guilt. He was upset that I contacted his parents and rabbi (I called him out on his bullshit and contacted them), and is focusing more on that than "I crushed her soul."

A lot doesn't add up, and that's what I'm trying to figure out. It'd hurt a lot less if I knew he still loved me and couldn't handle it, rather than I did something or he fell out of love with me or something. I do believe he still loved me, because his break-up letter was so genuine and said "This goes against everything I believe, my hand is shaking so hard that I can't hand-write this." It was a heart-wrenching letter...I seriously think that he just snapped and now is trying to deal with it by ignoring the whole thing and shoving it out of his mind and being upset with me because it makes it easier.

It hurts a lot...a whole lot, just because I realized how alone I feel now. I cry myself to sleep. But I'm trying to move on and get better and just say 'hey you're a great girl and he didn't break up with you because he doesn't like/love you, he broke up because he realized he could never marry you.' It's one thing to say he should stand up to his dad, but it's a whole different thing to be in his position. I have no idea what I'd say if my parents said that I wasn't to date a Jew, because I loved Wayne a lot but I love my parents too. And if they never accepted him, I don't know if I would have stayed with him because I'd be torn. But I do know I'd resent them if I made the same decision as he did.

[QueenAdrock]

Im so sorry D :( :( :(

Im in the midst of some mutual macking with a jewish boy

I think he is from a non-orthodox familitsia though

Wayne's not orthodox. He's conservative. Which makes it even more bizarre that his dad is so racist.

[SobaViolence]

family trumps love.

sucks.

[DroppinScience]

well, i can understand.

my dad always told me the first thing my grandad's parents said when he started dating my grandma was 'at least she's catholic'.

True. My grandpa (who was French and Catholic) and my grandma (who was Scottish and Anglican) ended up marrying and they had my dad (he ended up being raised Anglican). When my dad met my mom (who is Polish and Catholic), my grandpa was pretty happy with that, since his boy got to marry a Catholic girl.

There was no bigotry over religion or anything in the family, but I think deep down we like to have our kids marry someone of their own kind.

[befsquire]

i am so very sorry to hear about you and wayne, diana.

i really don't think anything can make it hurt less though, and i think if you knew for a fact he was as torn up as you, it would likely hurt more. from what i gather from reading your posts, regardless of whether there's more to the situation than meets the eye, it's a problem with him, not with you.

it sounds like your "meeting" for coffee went very well -- you were out of your place and having a good time. do more of that with lots of friends.







p.s. don't call wayne -- you're not going to hear anything that will make you feel better if he does answer, and it only makes you feel bad when he doesn't. i know it's easier said than done, but it can only help you.

[GetYourWarOn]

It hurts a lot...a whole lot, just because I realized how alone I feel now. I cry myself to sleep. But I'm trying to move on and get better and just say 'hey you're a great girl and he didn't break up with you because he doesn't like/love you, he broke up because he realized he could never marry you.' It's one thing to say he should stand up to his dad, but it's a whole different thing to be in his position. I have no idea what I'd say if my parents said that I wasn't to date a Jew, because I loved Wayne a lot but I love my parents too. And if they never accepted him, I don't know if I would have stayed with him because I'd be torn. But I do know I'd resent them if I made the same decision as he did.

i'm sorry to hear this queen. : ((( hang in there.

[Rawr]

since this thread is about dating, im gonna ask this.
do you think it's strange for a 20 year old to be dating a 40 year old?

[Ace42X]

since this thread is about dating, im gonna ask this.
do you think it's strange for a 20 year old to be dating a 40 year old?

Yes. Let me guess, unpopular chick with father issues?

[marsdaddy]

since this thread is about dating, im gonna ask this.
do you think it's strange for a 20 year old to be dating a 40 year old?Not if Judiasm is involved.