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View Full Version : Ethanol:Other Alternative Fuels:Discussion


ASsman
02-13-2006, 09:49 AM
First off I don't trust the president, even if he said the sky was blue, I'd question his reason for stating that. Ethananol, who knows anything about this, I sure as hell don't. I know what it is, where it is made (shit I live in Illinois). But why are we going in this direction, Americans are lazy they will hate the lower MPG, having to refill quicker. Not enough diesel american cars? All American car makers have diesel cars sold in Europeans markets, starting production in the US would not be difficult. I might be going off on a limb here but diesel engines are by far the longest lasting, they have thicker chamber walls etc. because they engine is under higher pressure. Where ethanol burns hotter, as far I know that is damaging to the engines life span. In turn auto makers would sell far more cars. In reality I just don't trust Detroit or our President, or anyone that is rich and white for that matter.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol

"Ethanol, also known as ethyl alcohol or grain alcohol, is a flammable, colorless chemical compound, one of the alcohols that is most often found in alcoholic beverages. In common parlance, it is often referred to simply as alcohol. Its chemical formula is C2H5OH, also written as C2H6O.

This article is mostly about ethanol as a chemical compound. For beverages containing ethanol, see alcoholic beverage. For the use of ethanol as a fuel, see alcohol fuel. For its physiological effects, see effects of alcohol on the body."

"Ethanol is produced both as a petrochemical, through the hydration of ethylene, and biologically, by fermenting sugars with yeast."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

"Biodiesel refers to any diesel-equivalent biofuel made from renewable materials such as vegetable oils or animal fats. Several different kinds of fuels are called biodiesel: usually biodiesel refers to an ester, or an oxygenate, made from the oil and methanol, but alkane (non-oxygenate) biodiesel, that is, biomass-to-liquid (BTL) fuel is also available. Sometimes even unrefined vegetable oil is called "biodiesel". Unrefined vegetable oil requires a special engine, and the quality of petrochemical diesel is higher. In contrast, alkane biodiesel is of a higher quality than petrochemical diesel, and is actually added to petro-diesel to improve its quality.

Biodiesels are biodegradable and non-toxic, and have significantly fewer emissions than petroleum-based diesel (petro-diesel) when burned. Biodiesel functions in current diesel engines, and is a possible candidate to replace fossil fuels as the world's primary transport energy source.

With a flash point of 160 °C, biodiesel is classified as a non-flammable liquid by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. This property makes a vehicle fueled by pure biodiesel far safer in an accident than one powered by petroleum diesel or the explosively combustible gasoline. Precautions should be taken in very cold climates, where biodiesel may gel at higher temperatures than petroleum diesel.

Biodiesel can be distributed using today's infrastructure, and its use and production is increasing rapidly (especially in Europe, the United States, and Asia). Fuel stations are beginning to make biodiesel available to consumers, and a growing number of transport fleets use it as an additive in their fuel. Biodiesel is generally more expensive to purchase than petroleum diesel, although this differential may diminish due to economies of scale, the rising cost of petroleum, and government subsidization favoring the use of biodiesel."

ms.peachy
02-13-2006, 10:10 AM
In reality I just don't trust ... anyone that is rich and white for that matter.


Although I agree with the general gist of your argument, I would caution you against taking a position of isolation against the very people most likely to be in a position to further your cause. The fact is, changes in these industries will only come about from those with enough education and influence to create policy. Quite a lot of those people are rich and white.Most of them are men, as well! And of course, everyone knows men are not to be trusted, right?

Ali
02-13-2006, 10:46 AM
In reality I just don't trust Detroit or our President, or anyone that is rich and white for that matter. Ah, c'mon, they have YOUR best interests at heart, don't they?

Anybody know of any Bush-owned Ethanol production facilities?

I wouldn't be suprised...

greedygretchen
02-13-2006, 12:59 PM
I heard some guy in Mexico was using the cooking oil dumped by restaurants to run engines on and Darryl Hannah's car runs on vegetable oil. I know that Henry Ford developed an engine that ran on hemp oil and I read that he actually developed a car made of hemp (no it wasn't the Cheech and Chong bus in Up in Smoke). Supposedly it was stronger than steel. While I don't know all the technological details, I think there are viable alternatives of renewable energy that are not being promoted/used because they're just not profitable enough. I think there's a Native American saying that says something like when all plant & animal life are gone and the water polluted we will find that we can't eat money...

ASsman
02-13-2006, 01:48 PM
Although I agree with the general gist of your argument, I would caution you against taking a position of isolation against the very people most likely to be in a position to further your cause. The fact is, changes in these industries will only come about from those with enough education and influence to create policy. Quite a lot of those people are rich and white.Most of them are men, as well! And of course, everyone knows men are not to be trusted, right?
Heh, you should know me better than this already. Of course I don't mean that, goodness peachy.


heard some guy in Mexico was using the cooking oil dumped by restaurants to run engines on and Darryl Hannah's car runs on vegetable oil.
Yeah, animal fat and vegetable oil can be made into purified biodiesel.. Saw a "Dirty Jobs" episode on it. And it was on a Spike TV show aswell, Two Guys Garage or something, they were talking about buying a kit and making your own cheap diesel, and getting badass low end torque for your hooked up diesel truck.

greedygretchen
02-13-2006, 01:52 PM
Yeah, animal fat and vegetable oil can be made into purified biodiesel...

then wtf? We Americans should be marching in the streets demanding that we shift to biodiesel...or would we all have "hunting accidents"?

ASsman
02-13-2006, 05:02 PM
Well, there is much more support for ethanol from GM and Ford, than biodiesel which is mainly coming from VW and the such and obviously from our president.

What I just noticed is that in both cases both 85% Ethanol and Biodiesel require modified engines, to some extent. And as far as I know the Diesel has

1. Longer life span
2. More Mileage (less going to the pump)
3. Low end torque (which any fat american would enjoy, taking their fat children to soccer practice and moving their stupidly big cars)
4. Would require little modification to existing infrastructures.
5. Did I mention it's classified as non-flammable, the biodiesel. Where are 85% ethanol will light you up like a bloody candle.


Biodiesel tech. already exists in Europe, would make sense to follow instead of paddling against the proverbial river (as we so many times enjoy doing). We are using our corn in both cases, and in biodiesel's case we are recycling. In both instances new cars must be bought, which is superior? Not 100% sure, continue the DISCUSSION!

Ali
02-13-2006, 07:16 PM
Biodiesel is for hippies.

Documad
02-13-2006, 08:50 PM
The president's speech was nonsense. He could have asked for something like a mpg requirement for SUVs if he wanted to do something about foreign oil dependence.


Anyhow, both ethanol and biodiesel are a big deal in Minnesota. I see the ethanol symbol everywhere and a large part of our state's corn production is going into it. Now, we're apparently the first US state to require biodiesel. NPR story re MN's biodiesel (http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/01/07_steilm_biodiesel/) Anything that helps the farmers!

ASsman
02-13-2006, 09:18 PM
Which is which, cars, trucks, semis. Which are being used by what part. Yeah if Bush wanted to do anything he'd do it right and in a non-dumbass way. Not going to happen obviously.

valvano
02-13-2006, 09:37 PM
i have a 1983 mercedes 240 d, 4 cylinder diesel, 189K miles, only mechanical problem has been a leak in a vacuum tube and replaced an alternator / battery....

i will never get a speeding ticket, but i get about 40-45 mpg....

these things have been documented to get up to 400k with no problem...just keep the oil changed regularly