Fucking bastards

[Ace42X]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/idcards/story/0,,1709246,00.html

They can suck my purple veiny cock if they expect me to get one.

[zorra_chiflada]

they have all this propaganda on popular current affairs shows here trying to convince stupid people that id cards would be a good idea. they're gonna get away with it.

[fucktopgirl]

we got id card in bc,canada ,but they are not essential for a passport and they do not contains biometric datas!


You have to regard this as a good thing, its for the sake of the citizen,they (gorverment)can protect them from the terrorists!!

[Ace42X]

The new St Valentine's day massacre. Liberty instead of moonshiners got gunned down against an ugly brick wall this time.

[Guy Incognito]

You have to regard this as a good thing, its for the sake of the citizen,they (gorverment)can protect them from the terrorists!!

If the terrorists are organised, clever and resourceful - they will get round this system, if people can organise terror attacks on twin towers, london underground etc then they will have the tools to beat the ID card, terrorism is being used as a tool to convince us its a good idea.

[Ali]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/idcards/story/0,,1709246,00.html

They can suck my purple veiny cock if they expect me to get one.Do you have a passport or Photocard Drivers license?

Not much difference, really. Hell, if you have a credit card, they already know more about you than you realise.

This (http://www.neonbubble.com/a/uk-id-cards) might make you feel better.

[fucktopgirl]

If the terrorists are organised, clever and resourceful - they will get round this system, if people can organise terror attacks on twin towers, london underground etc then they will have the tools to beat the ID card, terrorism is being used as a tool to convince us its a good idea.


yes i, know,i was beeing ironic !This is just a scam b the gorvernement to be able to control more is citizen!

[Guy Incognito]

yes i, know,i was beeing ironic !This is just a scam b the gorvernement to be able to control more is citizen!

Doh :o Sorry

[franscar]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/idcards/story/0,,1709246,00.html


Mr Brown, not previously known as a public advocate of the cards, used a major speech on security to argue that such schemes "could not just help us to disrupt terrorists

Since they first started talking about this scheme, not once has ANYONE managed to actually say HOW this collosal waste of money would disrupt terrorism. I'd have thought that would have been the major focus, but it seems they must stop terrorism through some kind of magic.

[sam i am]

Since they first started talking about this scheme, not once has ANYONE managed to actually say HOW this collosal waste of money would disrupt terrorism. I'd have thought that would have been the major focus, but it seems they must stop terrorism through some kind of magic.

The Force will stop terrorism.....didn't you pay attention to Episode IV : "I find your lack of faith disturbing....."

[franscar]

In Star Wars the terrorists won.

[sam i am]

In Star Wars the terrorists won.

Really?

What acts of "terrorism" did they commit?

[ASsman]

Blew up expensive toys.

[sam i am]

Blew up expensive toys.

Not really.

[franscar]

I'm sure a Deathstar cost a fair amount. Even in a galaxy far far away.

[ChrisLove]

Since they first started talking about this scheme, not once has ANYONE managed to actually say HOW this collosal waste of money would disrupt terrorism. I'd have thought that would have been the major focus, but it seems they must stop terrorism through some kind of magic.

The ID card system is suposed to stop criminals using financial services in a fraudulent manner. It is hoped that with this system people who are at present are financially excluded due to a lack of ID (immigrants, homeless, unemployed etc) will be able to access bank accounts while criminals will be unable to set up multiple accounts in different names using faked ID.

This will help prevent all forms of financial crime but predominantly money laundering and the financing of terrorism.

For some reason the government is not explaining this well to people which is a bit confusing. But basically, ID cards stop terrorism by preventing terrorists from being able to fund terrorist acts with anonimity - increasing the chance of detection either before the attack occurs or retrospectively.

[Ali]

But basically, ID cards stop terrorism by preventing terrorists from being able to fund terrorist acts with anonimity - increasing the chance of detection either before the attack occurs or retrospectively.With the happy side-effect of tracking exactly how much money everybody earns and how they earn it.

Dang those tax-evading, benefit-cheating terrorists, sorry citizens.

[ChrisLove]

With the happy side-effect of tracking exactly how much money everybody earns and how they earn it.

Dang those tax-evading, benefit-cheating terrorists, sorry citizens.

I must admit I have not really been following the ID card issue very closely - I have assumed that the benefits and the costs have been hugley overstated by the various sides of the argument and so have not really followed it.

It is certainly true that as well as combating terrorist financing - ID cards would help cut back on benefit fraud and money laundering - this is a good thing no? Money Laundering = proceeds of crime = drugs + organsied crime. Seems all good to me. If it can be delivered in a cost effective way then those sound like good things.

On the other hand there is the civil liberties aspect and the fact that generally anti fraud measures and anti money laundering measures tend to have a temporary benefit will criminals figure out a new way of beating the system. (Like Chip n Pin)

So what exactly is the civil liberties problem? Im not challenging it I just want someone to summerise it..

What liberties will this compremise that are not already compremised by other things (CCTV, credit cards etc)? The government already knows how much you earn and how you earn because of their controversial tax collection policies, right?

I think Im genuinely undecided on this so please fill my head with arguments for/against

[Ace42X]

What liberties will this compremise that are not already compremised by other things (CCTV, credit cards etc)?

Credit Card records are subject to all manner of legal protections that will not be the case with the ID card. The ID card is a centralised resevoir of information that the government can use to spy on you with impunity. While they no doubt can and do spy on us all the time, the idea of PAYING for the privilidge of them having even closer scrutiny over the minuatae of our lives is frankly gauling.

As for fraud, etc - all that is going to happen is that now instead of a complicated paper-trail to steal an identity, people are just going to hack an ID card and be able to perform identity theft SO much easier with all that power put into one single location.

[ChrisLove]

Actualy Ill give you one problem - the national ID database will be the most targeted database for hackers ever - if you could crack into that thing you could make millions - the spamming potential alone is obscene + all the ID fraud you could commit.

And I dont think any database is really ever secure - not when so much money is at stake and people using it are bribeable.

[ChrisLove]

Credit Card records are subject to all manner of legal protections that will not be the case with the ID card. The ID card is a centralised resevoir of information that the government can use to spy on you with impunity. While they no doubt can and do spy on us all the time, the idea of PAYING for the privilidge of them having even closer scrutiny over the minuatae of our lives is frankly gauling.

As for fraud, etc - all that is going to happen is that now instead of a complicated paper-trail to steal an identity, people are just going to hack an ID card and be able to perform identity theft SO much easier with all that power put into one single location.


I dont see exactly what spying this info wil allow them to do? It doesnt show where you are, what your doing,isnt it just - what you look like, eye colour etc? Fingerprints and so on? Is the government allowed to consult its database if they find a fingerprint at a crime scene or are there limits on how data can be used?

And re the cost - I agree that is a big problem but its not inconceivable that this will deliver greater benefits than costs - ie reduction in benefit fraud could well outweigh the cost of introducing the scheme.

I agree that fraudsters will beat this system but its another stumbling block in their way - another cost they have to pay, as part of the overall financial crime strategy I can see it having net benefits. Each time something like this comes in its means fraudsters have to invest more in their technology and have to be more skilled than before - that means they making less money and reducing in number.

[sam i am]

I'm sure a Deathstar cost a fair amount. Even in a galaxy far far away.

But Luke was Vader's son, so really Vader should have been accountable - and He was not a terrorist....or was he?!?!?!?

[franscar]

But Luke was Vader's son, so really Vader should have been accountable - and He was not a terrorist....or was he?!?!?!?

He killed the Emperor. Fucker was a major terrorist, even if he did cry like a pussy.

[sam i am]

He killed the Emperor. Fucker was a major terrorist, even if he did cry like a pussy.

True story. What a double agent, eh?

Who'd be Vader in the current US administration, in your opinion?

[ASsman]

Actually the rebels gave The Empire the death star, backfired on them. Then they had to go blow it up, cause they gave it to the wrong people to begin with..

[franscar]

True story. What a double agent, eh?

Who'd be Vader in the current US administration, in your opinion?

http://www.speakersworldwide.com/images/jones_lg.jpg

http://www.askmen.com/men/business_politics/pictures/folder_1/colin_powell/colin_powell_150c.jpg

[Ali]

True story. What a double agent, eh?

Who'd be Vader in the current US administration, in your opinion?
Yoh mama.

[sam i am]

http://www.speakersworldwide.com/images/jones_lg.jpg

http://www.askmen.com/men/business_politics/pictures/folder_1/colin_powell/colin_powell_150c.jpg

^^^^^^^

Nice.

Colin's out of the Admin., though, ain't he?

Maybe Mustafa....or the CNN guy (wait...wait...they're ALL one and the same! :eek: )

[Ace42X]

I dont see exactly what spying this info wil allow them to do? It doesnt show where you are, what your doing,isnt it just - what you look like, eye colour etc? Fingerprints and so on? Is the government allowed to consult its database if they find a fingerprint at a crime scene or are there limits on how data can be used?

For the card to be processed, it has to interface with a machine, each machine will have to be registered to prevent data theft, card-cloning, manipulation of the machine, etc etc. As each machine's position and function is known and each query it makes of the database is registered, then the government can easily use this information to work out exactly where you go and when,e very time you use the card. And as they want the card to be used for *everything* - this means it will track you everywhere, from buying drinks in the offlicense (proof of age) to buying clothes, etc etc.

As for how the government is allowed to behave, I think we all remember how the government (and official institutions) were "allowed" to use the anti-terrorist legislation to arrest an old man heckling Jack Straw. And we all know about illegal US wiretaps. The fact of the matter is the government *will* exceed the power permitted, and it will then provide excuses / jsutifications after they have already broken the law. Or re-write or re-define the law to make it 'perfectly reasonable and appropriate'.

Each time something like this comes in its means fraudsters have to invest more in their technology and have to be more skilled than before - that means they making less money and reducing in number.

I think it will make fraud easier and more profitable, solely by virtue of collecting everything they need to steal an identity in one place.

[Jmoney77]

?

[Ace42X]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,,1724874,00.html

Thank god for that.

[Ali]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,,1708462,00.html

God it's like the old 40 minutes document again, except that this time they've "sexed down" the report!

Brian Gladman, from Worcester, now a security consultant to US government agencies, said Mr Blair and the home secretary had got it wrong when they accused critics of producing "a technically incompetent report" on ID cards. They had accused the report's main author, a visiting fellow at the London School of Economics, Simon Davies, of bias because he is also a director of Privacy International, a human rights group that opposes ID cards.
Now Dr Gladman, who led research into protecting foreign spies from compromising the country's most secure communciations system, has written to Mr Blair saying he was the author of the sections of the report dealing with safety and security. He pointed out that the "technically incompetent" data was subject to review by the LSE before publication by two "independent information security experts, both of whom are internationally recognised for their expertise".

He warns the new database will "create safety and security risks for all those whose details are entered on the system".

My brother works in a government department and reckons that their IT systems are so old and insecure that you could hack them with a 486 and a 56k dial up. He's contracting and has been given the most incredible access (he could swindle the Benefits sytem blind if he wanted, as the Auditors barely know how to switch on a computer.)

I have just renewed my photocard driving license and didn't have to send them my passport, just my passport number, as it is a "digital" passport. I also notice that they don't stamp it or ask you loads of questions any more, they just scan the bar code - even in South Africa!!!

There's no ways I'm going to the US ever again. That retina scan gives me the creeps (http://www.cforc.com/kjv/Revelation/13.html). 13:11
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13:13
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

13:17
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

[ChrisLove]

Having looked into this a bit more - Im now pretty convinced also that the central database will be vulnerable to attack. Not from hackers nessecarily but from insider fraud.

[Ali]

Having looked into this a bit more - Im now pretty convinced also that the central database will be vulnerable to attack. Not from hackers nessecarily but from insider fraud.Considering the Clowns employed by HM Govt... easily! (no offense ;) )

[ChrisLove]

Considering the Clowns employed by HM Govt... easily! (no offense ;) )

None taken - I dont technically work for the Gov anyway! There are plenty of examples of civil servants leaking info to organised crime tho.

[Ali]

Non taken - I dont technicaly work for the Gov anyway!
Few who work there do...
There are plenty of examples of civil servants leaking info to organised crime tho.Really? That's giving them credit for far more intelligence than they actually have! :p

[Ali]

Just seen this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4781302.stm)The UK and other countries must introduce biometric passports by October to remain part of the US visa waiver scheme, which makes travel to America easier. :eek: