9 tillion dollars??

[DapperDiverge]

if this deficit continues, is it possible that the US could no longer be a world power?? the value of he dollar keeps dropping... we're no longer respected because this whole damn war is a joke... engineering professions are low, children aren't that highly educated... OMG!!! China is going to be on top!! everybody, start learning chinese!! i wouldn't be suprised if Canada made the US it's bitch... i'm worried, worried that our country will begin collasping before our eyes if this doesn't stop... perhaps i'm speaking too soon... all i'm saying is that we need to watch ourselves... and for the lova god!! start impeaching people... or i'll be forced to move to another country to escape a possible depression

[Ace42X]

perhaps i'm speaking too soon

Yah, if it was 1963.

[DapperDiverge]

i would love to know how much money the government has...and how/why they keep spending it so loosely?? and if being in the trillions isn't enough, what comes after this number?? zillion, then a cagillion, than i guess a whole lot

[Ace42X]

i would love to know how much money the government has...and how/why they keep spending it so loosely?? and if being in the trillions isn't enough, what comes after this number?? zillion, then a cagillion, than i guess a whole lot

Quatrillion, then Cinquillion at a guess.

[kaiser soze]

the funny thing is....

eventually they will have to raise taxes to get us out of this huge growing hole

so keep up the battle cry!

tax cuts! tax cuts! tax cuts!

[Ace42X]

eventually they will have to raise taxes to get us out of this huge growing hole

Not possible. They will keep borrowing indefinitly, to the point where no-one is in a position to demand their money back, as they have no leverage to ensure it.

[DapperDiverge]

this sucks!! i'm poor damn it!! it's like this damn government is like that guy who keeps charging on his credit card, going over the limit, and never pays his debts, on time, and keeps getting penalties with interest... then he comes and starts asking us for a loan to pay off his stuff... i say hell no!! why don't you get your rich friends to do it?? and he's all like, because i don't want to get on their bad side... they got money, they're special... and powerful... and could do things that could hurt me... and we're all like, well that's your problem!!

[Schmeltz]

You don't have to worry about Canada making the USA its bitch. That will never happen. I think that what is at issue is a different take on world events: the fact is that the government only has as much money, or authority, or power as you choose to give it. The government spends infinite amounts of money because we let it. The government sends people off to die meaninglessly because we obey it. The troops sacrifice their own lives willingly. George Bush is only in power because you and I don't do enough to keep him out of power.

Bottom line is that we made all this shit up ourselves. Well, more properly, our forebears made it up and now we have to deal with it - their hereditary capitalism, their Zionism, their nationalism, their militarism, their wholly artificial systems of state worship and societal function. We know enough now to see that none of their bullshit means anything. The question is - are we going to play along with their empty, meaningless aphorisms, and let them dictate the terms by which we live our lives, or are we going to tell them to go fuck themselves?

If we could only get enough people to say, collectively, "go fuck yourself" to the so-called elites of our society, we wouldn't have these problems. Empires are a function of complacency. The deficit does not exist. The international system is a joke left over from the 19th century. It's so powerfully ironic that in an age when we are so much more communicatively connected than ever before in history, archaic and obsolete ideologies continue to dominate our interpersonal relations. Nobody can tell you what to do unless you let them. That's the most important lesson of the last two hundred years.

One of these days we will experience the growth and prevalance of a group of people strong enough to drop these ideas and make them count, in order to produce a meaningfully accountable and efficient method of government. Untlil then I will continue drinking beer. Sound good?

[DapperDiverge]

You don't have to worry about Canada making the USA its bitch. That will never happen. I think that what is at issue is a different take on world events: the fact is that the government only has as much money, or authority, or power as you choose to give it. The government spends infinite amounts of money because we let it. The government sends people off to die meaninglessly because we obey it. The troops sacrifice their own lives willingly. George Bush is only in power because you and I don't do enough to keep him out of power.

Bottom line is that we made all this shit up ourselves. Well, more properly, our forebears made it up and now we have to deal with it - their hereditary capitalism, their Zionism, their nationalism, their militarism, their wholly artificial systems of state worship and societal function. We know enough now to see that none of their bullshit means anything. The question is - are we going to play along with their empty, meaningless aphorisms, and let them dictate the terms by which we live our lives, or are we going to tell them to go fuck themselves?

If we could only get enough people to say, collectively, "go fuck yourself" to the so-called elites of our society, we wouldn't have these problems. Empires are a function of complacency. The deficit does not exist. The international system is a joke left over from the 19th century. It's so powerfully ironic that in an age when we are so much more communicatively connected than ever before in history, archaic and obsolete ideologies continue to dominate our interpersonal relations. Nobody can tell you what to do unless you let them. That's the most important lesson of the last two hundred years.

One of these days we will experience the growth and prevalance of a group of people strong enough to drop these ideas and make them count, in order to produce a meaningfully accountable and efficient method of government. Untlil then I will continue drinking beer. Sound good?


totally agreed!!(y) i just finished 2 guinness beers, a shot of rum, half a bottle of champagne and about to have some vodka.... and yet i still don't submit to alcohol poisoning

[D_Raay]

You don't have to worry about Canada making the USA its bitch. That will never happen. I think that what is at issue is a different take on world events: the fact is that the government only has as much money, or authority, or power as you choose to give it. The government spends infinite amounts of money because we let it. The government sends people off to die meaninglessly because we obey it. The troops sacrifice their own lives willingly. George Bush is only in power because you and I don't do enough to keep him out of power.

Bottom line is that we made all this shit up ourselves. Well, more properly, our forebears made it up and now we have to deal with it - their hereditary capitalism, their Zionism, their nationalism, their militarism, their wholly artificial systems of state worship and societal function. We know enough now to see that none of their bullshit means anything. The question is - are we going to play along with their empty, meaningless aphorisms, and let them dictate the terms by which we live our lives, or are we going to tell them to go fuck themselves?

If we could only get enough people to say, collectively, "go fuck yourself" to the so-called elites of our society, we wouldn't have these problems. Empires are a function of complacency. The deficit does not exist. The international system is a joke left over from the 19th century. It's so powerfully ironic that in an age when we are so much more communicatively connected than ever before in history, archaic and obsolete ideologies continue to dominate our interpersonal relations. Nobody can tell you what to do unless you let them. That's the most important lesson of the last two hundred years.

One of these days we will experience the growth and prevalance of a group of people strong enough to drop these ideas and make them count, in order to produce a meaningfully accountable and efficient method of government. Untlil then I will continue drinking beer. Sound good?

Do you really think we as a people are capable of what you suggest?
I hate to sound pessimistic here, but I really don't.

Also, these people do not exactly play it fair. We are at a huge disadvantage even in this age of readily available information. They have people whose sole purpose is to figure out how to fool us into operating intellectually with nothing but our basest of emotions, our most primal urges. And they are winning. Hell, they probably already won.

Even people such as you and me, not easily fooled and intelligent, become jaded and disenchanted and blinded sometimes by our own frustration.
I am sorry but I don't see a way out.

[kaiser soze]

Let us not forget all the precautions that are put in place to keep it at "their" advantage

From designated "Free Speech" zones to domectic wiretapping, capitalizing on people's fears with the "war on terror" to sucking up to the religious right.

Increased propaganda attacks and manipulation of the media to sucking our jobless sons and daughters into the military ( need healthcare? join the military!)

Putting profit before people and wasting billions of dollars on wars rather than creating improved programs and reliable infrastructure for it's own citizens.

Here's some new news...Iraq war will surpass $1 trillion soon ( if not already )

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11880954

[FunkyHiFi]

George Bush is only in power because you and I don't do enough to keep him out of power.
That may not be totally our fault:

Electronic voting machine fraud article (http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002542.htm)

This guy was a guest on the local Pacifica station (http://houston.kpft.org/site/PageServer) a few days ago, and assuming he wasn't ridiculously biased, the many incidents he spoke of concerning electronic voting was truly scary. Things like machines using uncertified software being used & supposedly the Federal govt knowing about it; the voting machine company's technician counting votes (totally illegal); and on and on.

While not trying to make an excuse for everyone, the fact that we are lied to so much by our leaders is one big reason I think for the apathy shown towards so many important issues by so many people in this country.

Maybe a democratic society can only grow so much and then it naturally becomes unstable? I don't know. I'll admit I'm no historian but i don't think there has EVER been as large or complex a democratic system as ours. I.e. America is "cutting edge" governmental technology.

[DapperDiverge]

what i think is pissing me off the most is how this government feels that they're waisting money with the Katrina victims!! i mean all of us in this country work, have taxes taken outta our pay checks so the money can be there for us, the american citizens, for later use like these types of emergencies... i've asked around about how others felt about this war and they got pissed off... they're like, it's between my tax dollars being wasted on these illegal immigrants or in a country that had nothing to do with anything!!

i just don't get it... they can find saddam in a hole in the ground... but they can't find a 6'5" guy wearing a large turbin and long beard?? i've seen people on america's most wanted that have gained 50 lbs, grew facial hair, dyed their hair, hell even had sex changes for all know, living even in a foriegn country and they can't find this guy???

i'm sorry, but when the japanese bombed pearl harbor, it's not like we went after the bahamas...

it's the damn 21st century... we have satelites in space that can zoom in on an ant pissing on a rock... what the hell bother having technology if morons can't even use them right!!:mad:

[Schmeltz]

Of course they don't play fair; they never have and never will. That's their method of negotiating social discourse. So it's time we resorted to methods of discourse either similarly underhanded or equally attention-getting. Either that or we wait and wait until something really snaps and the blood starts flowing in the streets again. It won't get any better if we convince ourselves that we can do nothing to change matters. It will only get worse. Lots worse.

[checkyourprez]

You don't have to worry about Canada making the USA its bitch. That will never happen. I think that what is at issue is a different take on world events: the fact is that the government only has as much money, or authority, or power as you choose to give it. The government spends infinite amounts of money because we let it. The government sends people off to die meaninglessly because we obey it. The troops sacrifice their own lives willingly. George Bush is only in power because you and I don't do enough to keep him out of power.

Bottom line is that we made all this shit up ourselves. Well, more properly, our forebears made it up and now we have to deal with it - their hereditary capitalism, their Zionism, their nationalism, their militarism, their wholly artificial systems of state worship and societal function. We know enough now to see that none of their bullshit means anything. The question is - are we going to play along with their empty, meaningless aphorisms, and let them dictate the terms by which we live our lives, or are we going to tell them to go fuck themselves?

If we could only get enough people to say, collectively, "go fuck yourself" to the so-called elites of our society, we wouldn't have these problems. Empires are a function of complacency. The deficit does not exist. The international system is a joke left over from the 19th century. It's so powerfully ironic that in an age when we are so much more communicatively connected than ever before in history, archaic and obsolete ideologies continue to dominate our interpersonal relations. Nobody can tell you what to do unless you let them. That's the most important lesson of the last two hundred years.

One of these days we will experience the growth and prevalance of a group of people strong enough to drop these ideas and make them count, in order to produce a meaningfully accountable and efficient method of government. Untlil then I will continue drinking beer. Sound good?

sounds kinda Gramsci influenced. i agree we gotta changed our core ideology up.

it seems like this country was based on hard work (im talking 50s backword) and were all just mooching off of their success. by the time is too late the people who will need to save this country are gonna be too lazy, incapable, or lacking in numbers to do anything about it.

[Funkaloyd]

sounds kinda Gramsci influenced.
Yeah, and "discourses"? You're such a social science socialist, Schmeltz =P

[checkyourprez]

Yeah, and "discourses"? You're such a social science socialist, Schmeltz =P


ahhhh yeaaa. coupla times i didit.

[Schmeltz]

Nah, Alexander Keith influences my thinking a lot more than Antonio Gramsci. I'm not even really a socialist.