Kerry's rider (more demanding that Cheney's)

[valvano]

enjoy!

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0327061kerry1.html

[EN[i]GMA]

I think you're confusing us with people who give a shit.

Common error.

For you.

[kaiser soze]

At least it doesn' ask for bulletproof masks for his guests

[Medellia]

Did this really warrant it's own thread? You couldn't have just replied in the one on Cheney?

By the way, I only posted the Cheny rider because it said all televisions must be tuned to FOX News. Care to comment on THAT, Vulvano?

[yeahwho]

I think we are missing the obvious

Dick Cheney's rider exclusively says he likes his 78 year old aged Texan Lawyer served freshly peppered from the head down.

[valvano]

wah wah wah,

you post something on cheney (who i personally dont care for) in an attempt to embarrass the man, i post something of identical nature that appears to be more embarrassing to kerrey, and you cry about it.....

:D

if cheney warranted his own thread, then should kerry...

and who cares if he watches fox....are you arguing that its because its friendly to republicans? if so, then if you note kerry wants copies of the NYTs and WP in his hotel room....can we assume then that those rags are favorable to democrats?

(lb)

[yeahwho]

wah wah wah,

you post something on cheney (who i personally dont care for) in an attempt to embarrass the man, i post something of identical nature that appears to be more embarrassing to kerrey, and you cry about it.....

:D

if cheney warranted his own thread, then should kerry...

and who cares if he watches fox....are you arguing that its because its friendly to republicans? if so, then if you note kerry wants copies of the NYTs and WP in his hotel room....can we assume then that those rags are favorable to democrats?

(lb)

What? You don't like Cheney? Is it something about Mary? :p

[D_Raay]

wah wah wah,

you post something on cheney (who i personally dont care for) in an attempt to embarrass the man, i post something of identical nature that appears to be more embarrassing to kerrey, and you cry about it.....

:D

if cheney warranted his own thread, then should kerry...

and who cares if he watches fox....are you arguing that its because its friendly to republicans? if so, then if you note kerry wants copies of the NYTs and WP in his hotel room....can we assume then that those rags are favorable to democrats?

(lb)
Well certainly not the Post , as was quite clear with their hiring and subsequent resignation of Domenich.

I agree with val though. Although I think the whole thing is a non-story. I mean who really cares?

[yeahwho]

Well certainly not the Post , as was quite clear with their hiring and subsequent resignation of Domenich.

I agree with val though. Although I think the whole thing is a non-story. I mean who really cares?

The dude is shooting and eating old peppered lawyers, for chrissakes if he's going to watch Fox News, the very least he can do is follow through and shoot a fox and eat the little fucker.

[valvano]

as i previously pointed out when this whole cheney lawyer shooting thing happened, the first thing leftist hero fidel castro did when he took power in cuba was get rid of all the lawyers......


i would think that cheney's attempt to get rid of a lawyer would deserve a thumbs up from left leaning folks

;)

[Ace42X]

wah wah wah,

Oh, you're still posting inane crap? I would've thought you'd've given up after one year's worth of posting proved that you were a mother-fucking imbercile.

[D_Raay]

The dude is shooting and eating old peppered lawyers, for chrissakes if he's going to watch Fox News, the very least he can do is follow through and shoot a fox and eat the little fucker.
Would only make sense to watch the one network who would actually side with you whilst in the throes of your incantations and bloody sacrifices wouldn't it?

[2sweet2Bsour]

Would only make sense to watch the one network who would actually side with you whilst in the throes of your incantations and bloody sacrifices wouldn't it?

The thought of Cheney tuning in to Fox for a daily pat on the back makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I used to believe that America was a nation of free thinking people. The ready embrace by so many Americans of rancid BS propaganda like Fox and Friends and 24 in recent years is proof either that those individuals have been brainwashed (which makes me angry), or that they were never free thinkers in the place (which just plain depresses me). But yeah that was the only interesting part of that story. Those rider stories are more fun when exposing pop music stars for being pretentious prima donnas with overblown egos.

[synch]

Bush is the least demanding of the bunch. A line of coke in the morning will last him at least 'till lunch.

[DroppinScience]

The ready embrace by so many Americans of rancid BS propaganda like Fox and Friends and 24

Hey, what's that you saying about "24"?? :mad:

[2sweet2Bsour]

Hey, what's that you saying about "24"?? :mad:

Sorry nothing personal! On some level I can believe it's probably excellent drama (which is more than I would ever say about Fox and Friends, which is festering dog dung through and through). But on others it is propaganda. For example, some of the storylines make a torturer out of the show's hero. Hello? These storylines justify torture. Ergo, they justify Abu Ghraib. I once tried to get hooked on the show but the torture storylines upset me so much that I had to stop watching. Recently I found some articles which put to words some of what I was feeling; I found the following particularly compelling:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1682760,00.html

The following is by someone who recognizes 24's manipulative messages but can nonetheless find room to enjoy the show; I don't know your political leanings but you may find yourself subscribing to the writer's camp. Personally, I didn't have the stomach:

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/torture_24_hours_of_torture_loving.htm

[DroppinScience]

I lean towards the left when it comes to the political spectrums.

As for "24," while I definitely understand where people are coming from when they're not big on the torture scenes, I wouldn't interpret the show as 100% pro-torture. Even if it is supporting torture, I highly doubt it's supporting Abu Ghraib (e.g. is Jack Bauer setting wild dogs and electrocuting terrorists for his own sadistic pleasures? Not at all. He's using less force and he's only using it because there is no other way to extract the information he needs to prevent an attack that is imminent).

Also, let's take into account that use of torture has been authorized on people who are guilty AS WELL as innocent on more than one occasion (i.e. it's showing instances where the use of torture is wrong) on the show.

As far as my understanding goes, the writers and creators of the show are from all sides of the political spectrums, and to be quite honest, a left-winger or a right-winger can pick apart elements of all 5 seasons that support their own agendas.

For example, the latter portion of Season 2 dealt with the rush to war with three (unnamed) Middle Eastern countries based on false pretenses. Bauer and company were busy trying to find proof that these countries had nothing to do with the nuclear bomb detonating in L.A. but the government was actually being misled by evil oil companies who wanted to control the oil supply in the Caspian Sea.

Not exactly the propaganda storyline concocted by right-wing nutjobs, is it?

In addition, I can also spot parallels to Enron, Karl Rove, FEMA/DHS, etc. used in this series.

Conversely, there's also little nuggets for the conservatives to pick up on and fit to their agendas.

Honestly, it goes both ways. Have you even watched this show??

P.S. - "24" also had a black President. Again, more "propaganda"?

[CrankItUp!]

The dude is shooting and eating old peppered lawyers, for chrissakes if he's going to watch Fox News, the very least he can do is follow through and shoot a fox and eat the little fucker.
You mean the dumb bastard is actually hunting again??? :eek:

[yeahwho]

You mean the dumb bastard is actually hunting again??? :eek:

The dude is like a walking talking real life Dr. Hannibal Lecter.

[2sweet2Bsour]

Honestly, it goes both ways. Have you even watched this show??

I was honestly never more than a casual viewer, so I readily defer to you on knowledge about the show. I can say that I watched season 1, which I actually liked, until I got sidetracked by life and stopped watching. The next time I picked it up was season 4 - at which point I encountered the disturbing torture stuff. About the scenes where innocent people are tortured, which you say could be read as anti-torture: if you see Jack & co. back at it again the following week, this time with a "truly" guilty person, isn't the message there that you win some, you lose some? And doesn't that desensitize viewers to the idea of innocent people getting tortured for the greater good?

Anyhow some of the other plot bits you raise I can accept as possibly supporting views on the other side of the fence. To me, I guess the pro-torture agenda, conveniently timed in the wake of the Abu Ghraib scandal, was so horrifying that I could not see beyond it to any of the other nuggets you mention. Thanks for your thoughts and for the information, as I can see now how 24 can be viewed not necessarily from a pro-Bush perspective. It just wasn't for me.

[DroppinScience]

I was honestly never more than a casual viewer, so I readily defer to you on knowledge about the show. I can say that I watched season 1, which I actually liked, until I got sidetracked by life and stopped watching. The next time I picked it up was season 4 - at which point I encountered the disturbing torture stuff. About the scenes where innocent people are tortured, which you say could be read as anti-torture: if you see Jack & co. back at it again the following week, this time with a "truly" guilty person, isn't the message there that you win some, you lose some? And doesn't that desensitize viewers to the idea of innocent people getting tortured for the greater good?

Anyhow some of the other plot bits you raise I can accept as possibly supporting views on the other side of the fence. To me, I guess the pro-torture agenda, conveniently timed in the wake of the Abu Ghraib scandal, was so horrifying that I could not see beyond it to any of the other nuggets you mention. Thanks for your thoughts and for the information, as I can see now how 24 can be viewed not necessarily from a pro-Bush perspective. It just wasn't for me.


Ah, Season 4. Yeah, that season easily had the most torture sequences (it was used before, but a lot less).

Here's some other scenarios in the season that demonstrates how you can view the world according to 24, depending on your ideology:

- A defense contractor company inadvertently supplies arms to terrorists and later attempt to cover up this fact when the shit hits the fan (that's some good anti-corporate fodder for the lefties)

- CTU arrests a suspect who has terrorist connections. The main terrorist villain phones up Amnesty International to inform them of human rights abuses about to be made on a U.S. citizen, so the lawyer won't allow them anywhere near the suspect (that was clearly thought up by one of their right-wing writers)

I think the bottom line of the show is that if you stick around long enough, you're going to get outraged over something, whether you're right or left-wing. ;)

[Bob]

i love 24, but i don't take it seriously. i don't think it's a great show by any standards, i just think it's a really fun show to watch. it's a very preprogrammed emotional ride, you're supposed to be tense here, you're supposed to be relieved here, you're supposed to feel this way about this character at this point, etc., you're just along for the ride, really. but it is a really fun ride. but as for political messages, i think the show's more entertaining if you try not to take it too seriously and apply its plotlines to real life situations or anything...just treat it as entertainment and it's a lot less outraging, i find.

i'm kinda annoyed though, because it's on mondays at 9:00 here, and i have a class that ends exactly at 9:00, so i always miss the first 10-15 minutes of every show. oh well. i'll just rent the DVD's when they come out.

[Qdrop]

this thread totally flipped.

[DroppinScience]

this thread totally flipped.

For the better. I'd much rather discuss "24" than whatever prima donna demands politicians make when they're travelling. They sound just like demanding rock stars or actors.

P.S. - If I were of their stature, I'd actually have a very hard time thinking up demands of what I'd want in my hotel room. I'm sitting here trying to think what kind of crazy demands I would make, but I'm falling flat. Am I too easy going to be famous? :confused:

[DroppinScience]

i love 24, but i don't take it seriously. i don't think it's a great show by any standards, i just think it's a really fun show to watch. it's a very preprogrammed emotional ride, you're supposed to be tense here, you're supposed to be relieved here, you're supposed to feel this way about this character at this point, etc., you're just along for the ride, really. but it is a really fun ride. but as for political messages, i think the show's more entertaining if you try not to take it too seriously and apply its plotlines to real life situations or anything...just treat it as entertainment and it's a lot less outraging, i find.

i'm kinda annoyed though, because it's on mondays at 9:00 here, and i have a class that ends exactly at 9:00, so i always miss the first 10-15 minutes of every show. oh well. i'll just rent the DVD's when they come out.

I agree absolutely, you're along for the ride, and I LOVE the ride I'm on.

I would, however, give the show more credit than you're giving. As for applying it to the real world, I think that's all but inevitable since this show is literally ripped from today's headlines. But there does come a point where you should just take a step back, as what goes on in this show has so many hypothetical situations that it's impossible to say to what extent they'd use torture or comply with terrorist demands, etc.

[Bob]

well yeah, i mean i recognize that situations in the show certainly do apply to real life events, i'm just saying that the show's more entertaining on a personal level if you try not to take the correlations too seriously. i mean, yeah, obviously they're there :)

[2sweet2Bsour]

Ah, Season 4. Yeah, that season easily had the most torture sequences (it was used before, but a lot less).


Ah! Well, no wonder then. You're really making me think I should give it another chance. And I'm pretty stubborn, so that's quite a feat.


I think the bottom line of the show is that if you stick around long enough, you're going to get outraged over something, whether you're right or left-wing. ;)

Hard to complain about that. We need more, not less, gadflies (http://socrates.clarke.edu/aplg0236.htm)at this time of repressed freedom of speech.

p.s. I disagree the thread has flipped. The topic is Kerry's rider being "more demanding" than Cheney's; someone pointed out that what made Cheney's rider interesting/bad was his insistence on having Fox on 24/7 (who cares about the rest). Currently, we're discussing the 24 part. (heh I kill me . . .)