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Qdrop
04-11-2006, 10:45 AM
i meant "A British take on Global Warming"...my apologies.

There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998
By Bob Carter
(Filed: 09/04/2006)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/09/do0907.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/09/ixworld.html

For many years now, human-caused climate change has been viewed as a large and urgent problem. In truth, however, the biggest part of the problem is neither environmental nor scientific, but a self-created political fiasco. Consider the simple fact, drawn from the official temperature records of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, that for the years 1998-2005 global average temperature did not increase (there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate that differs significantly from zero).

Yes, you did read that right. And also, yes, this eight-year period of temperature stasis did coincide with society's continued power station and SUV-inspired pumping of yet more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

In response to these facts, a global warming devotee will chuckle and say "how silly to judge climate change over such a short period". Yet in the next breath, the same person will assure you that the 28-year-long period of warming which occurred between 1970 and 1998 constitutes a dangerous (and man-made) warming. Tosh. Our devotee will also pass by the curious additional facts that a period of similar warming occurred between 1918 and 1940, well prior to the greatest phase of world industrialisation, and that cooling occurred between 1940 and 1965, at precisely the time that human emissions were increasing at their greatest rate.

Does something not strike you as odd here? That industrial carbon dioxide is not the primary cause of earth's recent decadal-scale temperature changes doesn't seem at all odd to many thousands of independent scientists. They have long appreciated - ever since the early 1990s, when the global warming bandwagon first started to roll behind the gravy train of the UN Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) - that such short-term climate fluctuations are chiefly of natural origin. Yet the public appears to be largely convinced otherwise. How is this possible?

Since the early 1990s, the columns of many leading newspapers and magazines, worldwide, have carried an increasing stream of alarmist letters and articles on hypothetical, human-caused climate change. Each such alarmist article is larded with words such as "if", "might", "could", "probably", "perhaps", "expected", "projected" or "modelled" - and many involve such deep dreaming, or ignorance of scientific facts and principles, that they are akin to nonsense.

The problem here is not that of climate change per se, but rather that of the sophisticated scientific brainwashing that has been inflicted on the public, bureaucrats and politicians alike. Governments generally choose not to receive policy advice on climate from independent scientists. Rather, they seek guidance from their own self-interested science bureaucracies and senior advisers, or from the IPCC itself. No matter how accurate it may be, cautious and politically non-correct science advice is not welcomed in Westminster, and nor is it widely reported.

Marketed under the imprimatur of the IPCC, the bladder-trembling and now infamous hockey-stick diagram that shows accelerating warming during the 20th century - a statistical construct by scientist Michael Mann and co-workers from mostly tree ring records - has been a seminal image of the climate scaremongering campaign. Thanks to the work of a Canadian statistician, Stephen McIntyre, and others, this graph is now known to be deeply flawed.

There are other reasons, too, why the public hears so little in detail from those scientists who approach climate change issues rationally, the so-called climate sceptics. Most are to do with intimidation against speaking out, which operates intensely on several parallel fronts.

First, most government scientists are gagged from making public comment on contentious issues, their employing organisations instead making use of public relations experts to craft carefully tailored, frisbee-science press releases. Second, scientists are under intense pressure to conform with the prevailing paradigm of climate alarmism if they wish to receive funding for their research. Third, members of the Establishment have spoken declamatory words on the issue, and the kingdom's subjects are expected to listen.

On the alarmist campaign trail, the UK's Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir David King, is thus reported as saying that global warming is so bad that Antarctica is likely to be the world's only habitable continent by the end of this century. Warming devotee and former Chairman of Shell, Lord [Ron] Oxburgh, reportedly agrees with another rash statement of King's, that climate change is a bigger threat than terrorism. And goodly Archbishop Rowan Williams, who self-evidently understands little about the science, has warned of "millions, billions" of deaths as a result of global warming and threatened Mr Blair with the wrath of the climate God unless he acts. By betraying the public's trust in their positions of influence, so do the great and good become the small and silly.

Two simple graphs provide needed context, and exemplify the dynamic, fluctuating nature of climate change. The first is a temperature curve for the last six million years, which shows a three-million year period when it was several degrees warmer than today, followed by a three-million year cooling trend which was accompanied by an increase in the magnitude of the pervasive, higher frequency, cold and warm climate cycles. During the last three such warm (interglacial) periods, temperatures at high latitudes were as much as 5 degrees warmer than today's. The second graph shows the average global temperature over the last eight years, which has proved to be a period of stasis.

The essence of the issue is this. Climate changes naturally all the time, partly in predictable cycles, and partly in unpredictable shorter rhythms and rapid episodic shifts, some of the causes of which remain unknown. We are fortunate that our modern societies have developed during the last 10,000 years of benignly warm, interglacial climate. But for more than 90 per cent of the last two million years, the climate has been colder, and generally much colder, than today. The reality of the climate record is that a sudden natural cooling is far more to be feared, and will do infinitely more social and economic damage, than the late 20th century phase of gentle warming.

The British Government urgently needs to recast the sources from which it draws its climate advice. The shrill alarmism of its public advisers, and the often eco-fundamentalist policy initiatives that bubble up from the depths of the Civil Service, have all long since been detached from science reality. Intern-ationally, the IPCC is a deeply flawed organisation, as acknowledged in a recent House of Lords report, and the Kyoto Protocol has proved a costly flop. Clearly, the wrong horses have been backed.

As mooted recently by Tony Blair, perhaps the time has come for Britain to join instead the new Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate (AP6), whose six member countries are committed to the development of new technologies to improve environmental outcomes. There, at least, some real solutions are likely to emerge for improving energy efficiency and reducing pollution.

Informal discussions have already begun about a new AP6 audit body, designed to vet rigorously the science advice that the Partnership receives, including from the IPCC. Can Britain afford not to be there?

• Prof Bob Carter is a geologist at James Cook University, Queensland, engaged in paleoclimate research

ChrisLove
04-11-2006, 04:59 PM
I find it very hard to have sympathy with aritcles when they are written in this style.

The arguments surrounding global warming on both sides are vastly more sophisticated than the ones presented here. I hate the way this seems to happen to genuinely interesting and important debates. His argument style reminds me of creationists.

Qdrop
04-11-2006, 05:04 PM
I find it very hard to have sympathy with aritcles when they are written in this style.

The arguments surrounding global warming on both sides are vastly more sophisticated than the ones presented here. I hate the way this seems to happen to genuinely interesting and important debates. His argument style reminds me of creationists.

i hear you...
but journalism must keep it's audience in mind.
you gotta dumb it down a shade to actually get people to read it, regardless of your stance.

no one's gonna read an article in the form a scientific paper, complete with pages of figures, charts, and extraploated predictions with fancy algorithms.

Funkaloyd
04-12-2006, 12:17 AM
Janet Cooke dumbed down the drug debate.

yeahwho
04-12-2006, 12:41 AM
....A Seattle Take on Global Warming

The consensus

Researcher finds that 1,000 studies all point to the same conclusion

As one study after another has pointed to carbon dioxide and other man-made emissions as the most plausible explanation, the cautious community of science has embraced an idea initially dismissed as far-fetched. The result is a convergence of opinion rarely seen in a profession where attacking each other's work is part of the process. Every major scientific body to examine the evidence has come to the same conclusion: The planet is getting hotter; man is to blame; and it's going to get worse.

"There's an overwhelming consensus among scientists," said UW climate researcher David Battisti, who also was dubious about early claims of greenhouse warming.


Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002549346_globewarm11.html)

ChrisLove
04-12-2006, 03:10 AM
i hear you...
but journalism must keep it's audience in mind.
you gotta dumb it down a shade to actually get people to read it, regardless of your stance.

no one's gonna read an article in the form a scientific paper, complete with pages of figures, charts, and extraploated predictions with fancy algorithms.

It seems more than dumbing down tho and closer to fraud…

With a basic grasp of statistics, one would appreciate that there are probably millions of factors that influence the weather (Chaos Theory, Butterflies wings & Hurricanes etc) and each of these factors exerts an upward or downward pull on the average temperature for a given year. Many of these factors produce the short and long term shifts in average temperature – ice ages for example or the more short term cyclical patterns.

One factor is CO2 in the atmosphere, and scientists job is to determine the influence of this factor on the overall weather or temperature of the earth. This is done using various statistical regression techniques (some of which are beyond me in terms of their complexity but the basic principle is to identify with a degree of statistical certainty the impact of each factor on the temperature). These tests have consistently shown that co2 exerts a significant upward pressure on temperature.

Sometimes reputable scientists despute this finding and that’s fine – there is a debate to be had. But all of these scientists would agree that the fact temperature has in any given period moved in the opposite direction to CO2 emissions is completely irrelevant because the combined effect of the millions of temperature weather variables can easily outweigh the impact of one (CO2 emissions). What is important is to be able to control for these factors and see the underlying trends.

This maybe to difficult for the average Joe to understand (although I reckon most people would get it if explained well). The point is that this guy is a geologist so he definitely understands the above point and yet he has still run the argument that periods of decreasing temperature when emissions are rising is contrary to global warming theory – but he knows it isn’t so he is in fact lying to win people over to his point of view.

The reason I said it reminds me of creationists is because for a long time Creation Scientists argued that the Theory of Evolution violated the Second Law of Thermodynamics and as such creationism grew credibility with a apparently genuine scientific attack on established theory. But the argument was false – evolution does not violate the Law of thermodynamics and they knew it – they were lying in order to sell their view point.

Maybe Im being overly critical but its annoying because this is an important issue. To be fair the article does address the statistical evidence briefly (citing a scientist that contradicts it) but the basis of the point is flawed and he knows it.

Ace42X
04-12-2006, 03:23 AM
Now *that* is a 'British' take on global warming.

God I cannot believe I just typed that.

Qdrop
04-12-2006, 07:24 AM
i will concede that a likely reason for the lack of temp growth (in fact, a cooling) from 1940-1965 COULD be the aerosols and pollutants that were pumped up there in the beginning of the century and into the middle of the century.
this does create a marked cooling effect on the earth, as it shades direct heat from the sun.

but aerosols clear from the atmosphere fairly quickly (2-4 years), and once environmental laws started taking hold (between 1970-1998), aerosol content in the atmosphere dropped....and we DO see a warming trend.

is THAT the sole reason?
no one knows.

why the leveling off the past few years?
no one knows.

how accurate are these readings/models compared to others?
no one knows.

the earth is warming.
that has been scientifically proven (finally).
the reason...has not.

now why didn't this scientist talk of the aerosols?
we can all speculate on that....

Qdrop
04-12-2006, 07:25 AM
Now *that* is a 'British' take on global warming.

God I cannot believe I just typed that.

for shame...

yeahwho
04-12-2006, 12:34 PM
i will concede that a likely reason for the lack of temp growth (in fact, a cooling) from 1940-1965 COULD be the aerosols and pollutants that were pumped up there in the beginning of the century and into the middle of the century.
this does create a marked cooling effect on the earth, as it shades direct heat from the sun.

but aerosols clear from the atmosphere fairly quickly (2-4 years), and once environmental laws started taking hold (between 1970-1998), aerosol content in the atmosphere dropped....and we DO see a warming trend.

is THAT the sole reason?
no one knows.

why the leveling off the past few years?
no one knows.

how accurate are these readings/models compared to others?
no one knows.

the earth is warming.
that has been scientifically proven (finally).
the reason...has not.

now why didn't this scientist talk of the aerosols?
we can all speculate on that....

You must make a very narrow choice when you decide to read about Global Warming. I have tried to read some of these articles you have posted throughout the years and they just insult common sense.

Such as blaming the Sun (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002549458_globalsidesun09.html).

Your entitled to think whatever you like, but I must tell you debating with somebody in the year 2006 on whether or not humans are contributing to Global Warming in a large way seems moot;

The consensus is most clearly embodied in the reports of the 100-nation Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), established by the United Nations in 1988. Every five to six years, the panel evaluates the science and issues voluminous reports reviewed by more than 2,000 scientists and every member government, including the United States.

The early reports reflected the squishy state of the science, but by 2001, the conclusion was unequivocal: "There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities."

Furthermore;

In the history of science, no subject has been as meticulously reviewed and debated as global warming, said science historian Spencer Weart, author of "The Discovery of Global Warming" and director of the Center for History of Physics.

"The most important thing to realize is that most scientists didn't originally believe in global warming," he said. "They were dragged — reluctant step by step — by the facts."

The above is from the same Seattle Times article I linked (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002549346_globewarm11.html) to in my earlier post. It isn't the end all on Global Warming, but it also isn't a scapegoat that perpetuates the ongoing denial of mankinds hand in global warming.

I'm not into beating myself or anybody else up over the reason for this planets heating up, but I am really into the truth being told. Some of this shit I read about the earth heating up is the equivalent to taking a cough drop for ebola. It is on, right now and it is real.

D_Raay
04-12-2006, 12:53 PM
Recently, researchers -- and even the U.S. Defense Department -- have investigated the possibility of abrupt climate change, in which gradual global warming triggers a sudden shift in the earth's climate, causing parts of the world to dramatically heat up or cool down in the span of a few years.

In February 2004, consultants to the Pentagon released a report laying out the possible impacts of abrupt climate change on national security. In a worst-case scenario, the study concluded, global warming could make large areas of the world uninhabitable and cause massive food and water shortages, sparking widespread migrations and war. The report also asserted that Global warming was more of an immediate threat than terrorism.

While this prospect remains highly speculative, many of global warming's effects are already being observed -- and felt. And the idea that such extreme change is possible underscores the urgent need to start cutting global warming pollution.

Echewta
04-12-2006, 05:17 PM
regardless of what you think about global warming, pollution is a known threat that should be hindered in general for the benefit of everyone. Cutting down on toxic chemicals going into the air might not stop global warming but could stop other things.

STANKY808
04-12-2006, 05:25 PM
Don't worry, just read the Stossel thread.

Qdrop
04-12-2006, 05:28 PM
regardless of what you think about global warming, pollution is a known threat that should be hindered in general for the benefit of everyone. Cutting down on toxic chemicals going into the air might not stop global warming but could stop other things.

agreed.

Qdrop
04-12-2006, 05:29 PM
Don't worry, just read the Stossel thread.

pipe down, pippy.

he strongly resembles Keith Hernandez, that must count for something.

Echewta
04-12-2006, 05:31 PM
Hey Q, pick up the latest Vanity Fair. Interesting stuff. The 50 things you can do booklet is the best.

STANKY808
04-12-2006, 08:14 PM
pipe down, pippy.

he strongly resembles Keith Hernandez, that must count for something.

Baseball sucks - and you really think he looks like Keith Hernandez? Don't know 'bout that but I certainly would not want to be caught between the two of them in a mustache fight!

And really do the 'staches really need to be that big? Or are they hiding something?

fucktopgirl
04-12-2006, 09:52 PM
Well,it is pretty obvious that man are contributing to global warming!For shure the planet go trought different climatic pattern troughout the course of her existence /But here,we cannot denied thta the man technology and lifestyle are the ones accelerating the processus.

Here,where i live,we have the rockies mountain.There is glacier too.We can see them diminushing at eyes sight.SInce i live in british colombia,it really shrink.

Do you think that all thoses hurricanes,tornado,,have something to do with global warming?