Which one of these classics do you choose? [Archive]

Kid Presentable

04-25-2006, 11:54 AM

Illmatic is an overall much more consistent album. Ready To Die suffers from the same flaws as Reasonable doubt; they're both hampered by weak tracks that shouldn't have been on the album. And any album with a blowjob skit loses by default.
Illmatic is 20% wack. One Love and One Time 4 Your Mind are waaaaay too average for a 'consistent' album.

The blowjob skit is funny, dude. Biggie has it in terms of that range, where Nas just blithers on about L's. The only real weak moment is 'Juicy' (yeah, I said it).

mickill

04-25-2006, 11:55 AM

unfortunately, you're wrong.
Oh, you mean you're in favor of the blowjob skit?

roosta

04-25-2006, 11:55 AM

Illmatic is an overall much more consistent album. Ready To Die suffers from the same flaws as Reasonable doubt; they're both hampered by weak tracks that shouldn't have been on the album. And any album with a blowjob skit loses by default.

YES.

Ready to Die has filler, Illmatic does not. Ready to Die has a terrible intro.

Ive heard "It hard to tell" bandied about as its weakest track on Illmatic
(i love it). Well if thats the weakest track, then you got yourself a classic album.

Qdrop

04-25-2006, 11:56 AM

Oh, you mean you're in favor of the blowjob skit?

i have an entire mix CD devoted to them.
great for parties and family get-togethers.

mickill

04-25-2006, 11:57 AM

Illmatic is 20% wack. One Love and One Time 4 Your Mind are waaaaay too average for a 'consistent' album.

The blowjob skit is funny, dude. Biggie has it in terms of that range, where Nas just blithers on about L's. The only real weak moment is 'Juicy' (yeah, I said it).
One Love isn't on Illmatic and One Time 4 Your Mind is a freestyle. And it's a dope song. Biggie couldn't ever kick off the head rhymes the way Nas did at the time.

And Juicy is a good song.

Kid Presentable

04-25-2006, 11:59 AM

YES.

Ready to Die has filler, Illmatic does not. Ready to Die has a terrible intro.
The best thing about Illmatic's intro is 'Wildstyle'. I venture that Things Done Changed is a better opener than N.Y State of Mind, in terms of intent.

Ready to Die has breadth. It takes you on a journey, through failure, all the way up to success, and beyond into death.

Illmatic, yeah he's hungry, but 10 years on, so what?

Plus Meth is on Ready to Die.

Beatin motherfuckers like Ike beat Tina!

Qdrop

04-25-2006, 12:00 PM

Biggie couldn't ever kick off the head rhymes the way Nas did at the time. now how could any of us possibley know that?

saml

04-25-2006, 12:00 PM

did I mention GIMME THE LOOT GIMME THE LOOT!

Ally Al

04-25-2006, 12:01 PM

[QUOTE=mickill]One Love isn't on Illmatic

you hitting the pipe today son ?

Kid Presentable

04-25-2006, 12:03 PM

One Love isn't on Illmatic and One Time 4 Your Mind is a freestyle. And it's a dope song. Biggie couldn't ever kick off the head rhymes the way Nas did at the time.

And Juicy is a good song.

One Love: The worst song ON ILLMATIC, and unforgivably shit. Q-Tip is all good, but this shit just fucks the flow of Illmatic right up. And as such, the album cannot save face. Nas tries, but lord, that beat is hard to like.

Title track on Ready to Die owns most of illmatic, if only based on the line: "I got techniques/drippin out my buttcheeks/sleep on my stomach so I don't fuck up my sheets".

Ally Al

04-25-2006, 12:06 PM

One Love: The worst song ON ILLMATIC, and unforgivably shit. Q-Tip is all good, but this shit just fucks the flow of Illmatic right up. And as such, the album cannot save face. Nas tries, but lord, that beat is hard to like.

Title track on Ready to Die owns most of illmatic, if only based on the line: "I got techniques/drippin out my buttcheeks/sleep on my stomach so I don't fuck up my sheets".

come one KP fat dudes talking about their buttcheeks is never a good thing, especially when they're drippin'

mickill

04-25-2006, 12:07 PM

[QUOTE=mickill]One Love isn't on Illmatic

you hitting the pipe today son ?
My bad.I was thinking of If I Ruled The World/One Love - Whodini.

Kid Presentable

04-25-2006, 12:08 PM

come one KP fat dudes talking about their buttcheeks is never a good thing, especially when they're drippin'
Yeah, but I miss two meals and I'm hungry too.:confused:

oh and lol at there only being like 11 of us cats who even give a shit about these albums on this forum.

mickill

04-25-2006, 12:09 PM

now how could any of us possibley know that?
Well, it hasn't been well-documented. Whereas with Nas, it has, via mixtapes, video and the aformentioned Illmatic track.

Ally Al

04-25-2006, 12:12 PM

[QUOTE=Ally Al]
My bad.I was thinking of If I Ruled The World/One Love - Whodini.

you mean kurtis blow ?

Kid Presentable

04-25-2006, 12:15 PM

Well, it hasn't been well-documented. Whereas with Nas, it has, via mixtapes, video and the aformentioned Illmatic track.
If they're writing in their heads, isnt everything 'off the dome'?

The fact remains that Ready to Die did something new, where Illmatic just told the same old story in a new way.

Guy Incognito

04-25-2006, 12:15 PM

I discovered both these albums quite a while after they were out but now I really like both but its gotta be ready to die. Its more up and a bit more varied

Kid Presentable

04-25-2006, 12:18 PM

I discovered both these albums quite a while after they were out but now I really like both but its gotta be ready to die. Its more up and a bit more varied
Plus, Ready to Die speaks for itself, where you gotta remind people that 'Illmatic' is classic shit.

Ally Al

04-25-2006, 12:22 PM

The fact remains that Ready to Die did something new, where Illmatic just told the same old story in a new way.[/QUOTE]

what was so new about R2D though ? Hustling, boasting etc etc hardly new ground

I'll admit i was a couple of years late with R2D because the whole 2pac and biggie just bored me and i was in my real WU TANG WU TANG phase. So i only eventually picked it up because i heard Unbelievable (also being in the primo phase that i still can't manage to shake). Anyways i do think it's a very good album, just not as good as illmatic

Guy Incognito

04-25-2006, 12:22 PM

Plus, Ready to Die speaks for itself, where you gotta remind people that 'Illmatic' is classic shit.
(y) Both artists are recognised as being somewhere near the top of the tree but Ready To Die sticks out as a classic work that Biggie never bettered and maybe some people treat all Nas' work as a whole rather than name a stand out album, i'm sure plenty will disagree tho. Its a tough question you have asked to be honest

Kid Presentable

04-25-2006, 12:27 PM

what was so new about R2D though ? Hustling, boasting etc etc hardly new ground

I'll admit i was a couple of years late with R2D because the whole 2pac and biggie just bored me and i was in my real WU TANG WU TANG phase. So i only eventually picked it up because i heard Unbelievable (also being in the primo phase that i still can't manage to shake). Anyways i do think it's a very good album, just not as good as illmatic
I got em both when I started high-school. Nothing moved me like Ready to Die. It was too good to be a rap album. Yes, Illmatic was incredible lyrically, but Ready just flowed. It was like Pink Floyd shit in how perfect it all sounded.

Ally Al

04-25-2006, 12:33 PM

I got em both when I started high-school. Nothing moved me like Ready to Die. It was too good to be a rap album. Yes, Illmatic was incredible lyrically, but Ready just flowed. It was like Pink Floyd shit in how perfect it all sounded.

ahhhh that could be what i'm missing then, never really been a floyd fan you see. Even with my late 80's acid adventures they never yanked my chain

Qdrop

04-25-2006, 12:52 PM

you mean kurtis blow ?

i think he meant "Friends" by Whoudini (the beat)...
while the chorus lyrics were lifted from Kurtis Blow's "If i ruled the world"...

mickill

04-25-2006, 12:54 PM

I don't even remotely see how there could be any reason for Pink Floyd to come up in this discussion, but it seems they have.

The best thing about Illmatic's intro is 'Wildstyle'. I venture that Things Done Changed is a better opener than N.Y State of Mind, in terms of intent.

Ready to Die has breadth. It takes you on a journey, through failure, all the way up to success, and beyond into death.

Illmatic, yeah he's hungry, but 10 years on, so what?

Plus Meth is on Ready to Die.

Beatin motherfuckers like Ike beat Tina!

The Genesis is probably the only album intro I don't skip past. That and the Chronic intro. And the Niggaz4Life intro. And the Amerikkka's Most Wanted intro. And some Gang Starr ones. Whatever. The point is, there's aren't many. And I would never hold an overly long series of SKITS (Ready To Die) in the same light.

NY State Of Mind is one of the absolute best rap songs ever, period. Nevermind being one of the best opening tracks ever or better than Things Done Changed, which isn't even half as good.

Yeah, I admit, I don't really care for It Ain't Hard To Tell, but the rest of the album is pretty much flawless. I have plenty of problems with Ready To Die, though. The hook on The What, despite it being an equally sick song, is pretty much a rehash of the Life's A Bitch concept. And everybody kinda already knows that the album cover is a straight bite. Suicidal Thoughts is identical to a skit off of WC & The Maad Circle's first album in terms of concept, which is fine, but I'm just saying it's not an entirely original idea. And not to mention that BIG was still using 2Pac's flow on parts of this album. Friend Of Mine and Everyday Struggle were aaaaaaaaverage at best and the beats for Respect and Me & My Bitch were just weak. Overall, too much filler, despite being more ambitious than Illmatic in scope. But Illmatic was ALL Nas. He wasn't borrowing from anywhere. And there isn't one line on Ready to die that can better "I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death".

I'd equate Illmatic to a tasteful, well-written independent film and Ready To Die to an overblown summer blockbuster with a lot of unnecessary scenes. Both are enjoyable, it just depends on what you're into.

If they're writing in their heads, isnt everything 'off the dome'?
You've obviously missed my point.

you mean kurtis blow ?
The hook was Kurtis Blow's, the music was Whodini's One Love.

Qdrop

04-25-2006, 12:57 PM

the music was Whodini's One Love.

no, "Friends".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000004WE/qid=1145990611/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-9830272-0856644?s=music&v=glance&n=5174

^click on "Friends" and listen.

Qdrop

04-25-2006, 12:58 PM

Well, it hasn't been well-documented. Whereas with Nas, it has, via mixtapes, video and the aformentioned Illmatic track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3azhQ...ie%20freestyle

but whatever....

Lex Diamonds

04-25-2006, 01:06 PM

GIMME THE LOOT GIMME THE LOOT
Best song on the album definitely. That's a sick tune.

But it's still no Illmatic.

dave790

04-25-2006, 01:16 PM

Illmatic kills it.

mickill

04-25-2006, 01:25 PM

no, "Friends".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000004WE/qid=1145990611/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-9830272-0856644?s=music&v=glance&n=5174

^click on "Friends" and listen.
I don't know where my head is at today.

I don't know if you were trying to link me to the 17 year old Biggie "freestyle" or not, but it doesn't go there. Seen it, though. Anyway, BIG admitted he doesn't kick of the head shit in an interview I read once. Doesn't change the fact that he was, in the end, a nicer emcee than Nas, anyway. I'm talking post Ready To Die, though.

Qdrop

04-25-2006, 01:36 PM

I don't know if you were trying to link me to the 17 year old Biggie "freestyle" or not, but it doesn't go there. i guess the link is dead.

Anyway, BIG admitted he doesn't kick of the head shit in an interview I read once. okay. but then how did he compete in freestyle battles? was it all "written"?
eh whatever.

Doesn't change the fact that he was, in the end, a nicer emcee than Nas, anyway. I'm talking post Ready To Die, though. agreed.

Guy Incognito

04-25-2006, 01:39 PM

. Doesn't change the fact that he was, in the end, a nicer emcee than Nas, anyway. I'm talking post Ready To Die, though.

Do you mean nicer as in better or in the subject matter,demeanour or what?

Ally Al

04-25-2006, 02:25 PM

Do you mean nicer as in better or in the subject matter,demeanour or what?

They mean a better MC

Guy Incognito

04-25-2006, 02:52 PM

They mean a better MC

Thought so - was a bit confused. Nice isnt a word i would use to describe them. "Noice" would have explained it for me though

Ally Al

04-25-2006, 02:59 PM

Thought so - was a bit confused. Nice isnt a word i would use to describe them. "Noice" would have explained it for me though

lol

G you just need to get down with the kids, just not in the glitter way

Guy Incognito

04-25-2006, 03:41 PM

lol

G you just need to get down with the kids, just not in the glitter way

I would hardly call mickill and qdrop "the kids" Al!

mickill

04-25-2006, 03:49 PM

I'm just immature.

g-mile7

04-25-2006, 06:33 PM

Puffy takes down Ready just enough for Illmatic to kill.

Videodrome

04-26-2006, 10:33 AM

illmatic was an EASY choice for me.

Lex Diamonds

04-26-2006, 11:21 AM

Plus, Ready to Die speaks for itself, where you gotta remind people that 'Illmatic' is classic shit.
I'd say it was very much the other way round. Ready To Die is a sick album but it's nowhere near as widely acknowledged as being a classic as Illmatic.

But anyway, what does that have to do with our personal opinions? For me, Illmatic is an almost perfect album, whilst RTD is just a very good album.

mickill

04-26-2006, 12:22 PM

Imagine if there were a blowjob skit on Illmatic, inbetween The World Is Yours and Halftime. See? No more classic.

Ally Al

04-26-2006, 12:41 PM

Imagine if there were a blowjob skit on Illmatic, inbetween The World Is Yours and Halftime. See? No more classic.

it's a good thing mr jones has no sense of humour

Qdrop

04-26-2006, 12:41 PM

Imagine if there were a blowjob skit on Illmatic, inbetween The World Is Yours and Halftime. See? No more classic.

did you have a bad experiance with blowjobs years ago or something?

Lex Diamonds

04-26-2006, 12:48 PM

did you have a bad experiance with blowjobs years ago or something?
Don't act like you don't remember.

mickill

04-26-2006, 12:55 PM

did you have a bad experiance with blowjobs years ago or something?
Do you enjoy listening to a dude getting his penis slobbered inbetween songs or something?

Qdrop

04-26-2006, 12:56 PM

Don't act like you don't remember.

you mean you actually WERE blowing mike?

shit, i thought i just walked in on you helping mike tie his shoe or something...

dang....

Qdrop

04-26-2006, 12:58 PM

Do you enjoy listening to a dude getting his penis slobbered inbetween songs or something?

yeah... i love comical, heterosexual porn.

i must be a gay pervert.

me thinks you doth protest too much.
aren't you usually accusing ME of overcompensating and shit?...

mickill

04-26-2006, 01:12 PM

Qdrop

04-26-2006, 01:22 PM

I'm making a simple point. Picture a blowjob skit on Paid In Full or Raising Hell. Skits in general suck. Granted, I don't mind the ones on old NWA/Ice Cube albums, though. Even the Just Don't Bite It one is fine. But seriously, even in '94 that was already a played out idea.

but it's VERY important that everyone knows they get MAD shorties who practically BEG to suck thier dicks.
VERY VERY important.

street cred and such.

who are we to take that away from them?
let the men have thier staged sex scenes with cousins who can't act.

So Ruff

04-26-2006, 02:25 PM

Illmatic is synonymous with the phrase "rap classic". And rightfully so. Ready to Die obviously is awesome too, despite 2-3 tracks of filler.

Illmatic.

Kid Presentable

04-27-2006, 02:59 AM

Yeah, the Pink Floyd thing is about how an album makes me feel; Ready is remniscient of Dark Side to me, for example, because of the complete experience I get from the album. Sonically. Apologies if that makes you mad, that's just how I draw the comparison.

It's pretty easy to talk about who freestyles the best but ultimately that's beside the point. To me, Ready to Die is abmitious, with a high success rate. The two Big's on Gimme the Loot, Warning's phone call and story telling, the out and out Dopeness of songs like Unbelievable, Suicidal Thoughts and Machine Gun Funk. They're quality, and I enjoy listening to them to this day. Me and My Bitch is one of the best Love Songs ever (vetoed for the wedding, btw). Again, with the range of ideas.

Illmatic is dope, but only because (in my opinion) so many people say it is. Over time it's lost all meaning to me, because I feel the wrong album is getting all this love. Has nothing to do with dead people, either. I respect Nas as a lyricist, but Big showed that less is more on the vocal tip. NY State of Mind IS untouchable, but I'm talking albums, not songs. I'd like Illmatic more probably if it hadn't been blown up into this genre-defining work. I think its contemporaries are equally (in Ready to Die's case more) important. That was just one of those years.

I love the ideas going on in Ready to Die, I feel the effort. The What? was supposed to synch up on Big's "Don't wanna fuck with M-E", into Meth's "T-H-O-D Man", but they couldn't swing it. If they had, it would pretty hard to criticize. And the hook may have similarities to LIfe's a Bitch, but the whole concept is nothing new in Rap music. It's like calling someone a biter for saying "Yo.". Illmatic plays it safe, though, so maybe that's what people find harder to fault.

But whatever, I'm not mad at people liking Illmatic, I just know what I prefer.

Ally Al

04-27-2006, 06:21 AM

[QUOTE=Kid Presentable]Yeah, the Pink Floyd thing is about how an album makes me feel; Ready is remniscient of Dark Side to me, for example, because of the complete experience I get from the album. Sonically. Apologies if that makes you mad, that's just how I draw the comparison.

no mate, not at all, millions of people love floyd it's just not for me. or at least it wasn't back then. I was lost in funkadelic when everyone was trying to push PF onto me and i'm stubborn you know :)

Me and My Bitch is one of the best Love Songs ever (vetoed for the wedding, btw).

now there's a suprise, women eh ?

Kid Presentable

04-27-2006, 06:28 AM

I just like how dark Ready to Die gets in points.

Ally Al

04-27-2006, 07:21 AM

I just like how dark Ready to Die gets in points.

it's just down to personal choice in the end isn't it ? there's no point someone saying one is better than the other because ultimately it's down to your own preference and what rings your bell so to speak

Kid Presentable

04-27-2006, 07:53 AM

it's just down to personal choice in the end isn't it ? there's no point someone saying one is better than the other because ultimately it's down to your own preference and what rings your bell so to speak
Yeah man, fully. I like to tell my side of the story.

mickill

04-27-2006, 09:19 AM

Yeah, I personally think that 2PACALYPSE NOW is better than both of them.

Ally Al

04-27-2006, 09:32 AM

Yeah, I personally think that 2PACALYPSE NOW is better than both of them.

is holler if ya hear me on that album ?

saml

04-27-2006, 09:46 AM

Yeah, I personally think that 2PACALYPSE NOW is better than both of them.

2Pac, most overrated rapper ever! (y)

mickill

04-27-2006, 09:50 AM

is holler if ya hear me on that album ?

No.

Tha Lunatic, Violent, I Don't Give A Fuck and Crooked Ass Nigga are.

Holler If Ya Hear Me is on Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.

And I was kidding.

Ally Al

04-27-2006, 09:55 AM

No.

Tha Lunatic, Violent, I Don't Give A Fuck and Crooked Ass Nigga are.

Holler If Ya Hear Me is on Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.

And I was kidding.

it's too late for that now Mick

Is HIYHM the one with the sample from gett off ?

mickill

04-27-2006, 10:23 AM

I don't know if that song samples Gett Off. I know that he's got like 5 songs, at least, that sample Prince, though.

2Pac, most overrated rapper ever! (y)

Over-sensationalized, not overrated.

His flow was completely original, he had more charisma than pretty much any rapper ever, he was very prolific, he had an excellent voice for rap, he had range and his influence can be found in the work of everyone from some of the best rappers ever (BIG, Nas, Jay-Z) to -- unfortunately for him -- some of the worst (too many to mention).

His legacy is impaired mostly by the notable inconsistency of his work and the oversaturation of his name and likeness in every facet of popular culture, perpetuated by both the media and obsessive fans alike. The overabundance of posthumous music and the raping of his catalogue by pretty much everyone from Suge Knight to Eminem doesn't help either. Bottom line is that if he wasn't every second jackass wannabe philosopher thug's idol, most of his detractors would probably enjoy the majority of his music, or at least do a little bit more homework before making such vague and cliched statements.

Auton

04-27-2006, 10:45 AM

(y)

Extra Cheese

04-27-2006, 11:14 AM

ready to die loses "classic" status simply by having that stupid reggae tingled song. that shit is so wack and retarded and headache inducing that it makes one not listen to biggie for at least 2 weeks.

Ally Al

04-27-2006, 11:18 AM

I don't know if that song samples Gett Off. I know that he's got like 5 songs, at least, that sample Prince, though.

Over-sensationalized, not overrated.

His flow was completely original, he had more charisma than pretty much any rapper ever, he was very prolific, he had an excellent voice for rap, he had range and his influence can be found in the work of everyone from some of the best rappers ever (BIG, Nas, Jay-Z) to -- unfortunately for him -- some of the worst (too many to mention).

His legacy is impaired mostly by the notable inconsistency of his work and the oversaturation of his name and likeness in every facet of popular culture, perpetuated by both the media and obsessive fans alike. The overabundance of posthumous music and the raping of his catalogue by pretty much everyone from Suge Knight to Eminem doesn't help either. Bottom line is that if he wasn't every second jackass wannabe philosopher thug's idol, most of his detractors would probably enjoy the majority of his music, or at least do a little bit more homework before making such vague and cliched statements.

yeah it's the scream from the beginning of gett off

ahhh mike you write so purdy sometimes you nearly won me over, but only nearly