Hmm, download it or grab the vinyl?

[FunkyHiFi]

"Back in the groove" (http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Stories.aspx?Back%20in%20the%20groove&StoryID=AF137CB5-26C3-42ED-B0A9-A053E5544208&SectionID=8099C021-87B0-48CA-A5F1-6335FDE21694):

".......vinyl is now outselling CDs when it comes to the latest records.

“Up to 70% of sales of new releases are vinyl. The fans of popular new rock bands like Arctic Monkeys and The Raconteurs prefer vinyl to CD,” said Campkin. “When the Raconteurs’ latest single was released, 80% of high-street sales were for seven-inch vinyl and only 20% were for CDs.”"

So, is everybody here filling up their shelves with 12" black discs or do you think this is a just a fad like bell bottoms & hot dog eating contests?

I agree with this thought from the article:
....the appeal of vinyl will continue to grow to shoppers who want to take home something tangible and lasting.
Downloads are convenient but like so much technology today, are also rather soulless & lack longevity (one good power surge, a virus or a flaky hard drive and poof, their gone). Never mind the fact that they are missing the artwork and other things associated with the music that the artist wanted you to have for a more enriching experience.

I was very tempted to buy the 2-LP/gatefold version of The Private Press at a local mom-n-pop (only $20), but I don't own a CD burner & so would only be able to listen to it at home,* so bought the CD version instead. The artwork for that album is much more interesting to look at on the vinyl's cover because you can finally actually see all the small details it contains.

One of my favorite downtempo indie labels, ESL Music (http://www.eslmusic.com/shop/default.asp), sells lots of vinyl versions of their artists' music.

* my turntable (http://www.vintagetechnics.com/turntables/slbd22k.htm), bought new in 2003

[b-grrrlie]

I bought the Raconteurs on vinyl, it looked so freakin' good!!!
Today I bought Jose Gonzales 7", it had the Knife's original version of Heartbeat on the other side. I like them both, much.

[FunkyHiFi]

I bought the Raconteurs on vinyl, it looked so freakin' good!!!
Yep, a lot of vinyl artwork is just that, ART. Great to look at while listening to the record. And most o fthe time when the lyrics are printed on the cover or the slipcase, you can actually read them without a magnifying glass (I had to do that with the Paul's Boutique CD & many others :( ).

LP versions of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon used to come with several miniposters, and they weren't folded up so they looked good on your wall.

And for Red Hot Chili Peppers fans w/turntables, you may want to read this:

"Steve's update RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS Amazing sounding analog masters for LP confirmed" (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=80835)

That forum moves really fast (i.e. thread can get pushed down fast) so I didn't know that Steve Hoffman was even doing this album in LP form until 20 minutes ago.

Steve Hoffman is a respected mastering engineer. He's good enough that EMI was just about to let him remaster a bunch of Beatles albums awhile back (the CDs don't sound as good as they should), but at the last minute they canceled the deal. EMI/The Beatles are extremely picky about who deals with their material.

************************************************** *****

Techno-nerd stuff follows....................

When this guy masters an album whether on CD or vinyl, he does it so it sounds good on an audio system where you can hear the "small stuff", not on a car system or iPod. Those last two systems are what are causing so many mastering engineers to be told to make albums with extra treble, pounding bass and overcompression. Overcompression is where the low levels are brought up to the same level as the loudest levels, making small details eaier to hear on lo-fidelity equipment or where external noise interferes (cars, in other words). But gawd, when played on just about any quality of home system, that sound effect can make it seem like the music is drilling into your ears. :( That can cause what's called listener's fatigue & many audio professionals think that's why more and more people listen to less & less new music (besides the fact that much new music just plain sucks :D ).

Without overcompression, besides being easier to listen to (espeically at high volume levels) emotionally-speaking the music "flows" better because the beat isn't competing with all the other parts of the music i.e. everything isn't all mashed up together. Another way to say something has less compression is that it has a wide dynamic range, just like a good story: there's exciting parts.....then some slower portions.......then it gets fun again.......then quiets down for awhile....etc etc.

SH also uses only gear that uses vacuum tubes (http://www.stevehoffman.tv), which have a special "velvety" sound that most transistorised equipment doesn't have. More and more bands are recording using such gear or use computer software that (tries to) emulates that sound (like this (http://www.antarestech.com/products/tube.shtml) for example)

CDs can also be mastered this way, but the Big Label marketing experts think anyone who buys those wants everything to sound in-your-face. But the vinyl version usually gets special treatment because they figure vinyl buyers are more discriminating about sound & qaulity in general so they usually end up using a lot less compression and in turn sound better. This is a big reason vinyl usually sounds better than the CD version, not just because vinyl is an analog format. And anyway, the physical limitations of vinyl put a cap on how much compression they can use - digital does not. The fact that this LP version uses 4 records means the music has lots of dynamic range, because the grooves are very wide. (y)

I own one SH-mastered CD, The Zombies Greatest Hits, and it really does sound excellent. Cymbals sound shimmery/clear but not harsh, vocals are right there in front of you and bass is solid & non-boomy. And I can turn it up to stupid levels & not get irritated. FYI: this "CD" is actually an sacd (http://www.musictap.net/Reviews/ZombiesTheGreatestHitsSACD.html), with a CD layer a CD/dvd player can read. I have only heard the CD layer though. I bought this at Best Buy for $14. You've probably heard (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1044832&style=music&cart=345952533&BAB=E) "Time Of The Season" or "She's Not There" somewhere but didn't know it.

[FunkyHiFi]

I dont know why it ever went away?
Because the CD came along in 1982.

Back then most people's turntables weren't nearly capable of pulling all the information out of an LP's grooves. Because unlike most digital gear, with analog stuff like this you REALLY get what you pay for: back then just a decent table (roughly the quality equivalent of a Chevy) cost at least $150 and a good cartridge (the part with the needle that actually converts the grooves into electrical signals) was around $75. This may not sound like much but for most non-audio hobbyists this was a lot to pay "just to hear a record".

And then you had to set up the table with all its various settings i.e. tracking force and anti-skating at a minimum. But probably the worst aspect of vinyl for most people: the annoying pops & clicks and trying to keep their vinyl clean so this wouldn't happen (vinyl is a very soft plastic). And from the first playing, vinyl starts wearing down, though with the above gear that will take a loooong time before things get really bad (usually the high frequencies start getting soft first). And the closer the tonearm gets to the inner tracks on a record, the worse the sound is i.e. tracking angle problems also called inner groove distortion (though very long tonearms can minimise this & linear tracking arms (http://www.vintagetechnics.com/turntables/sl10.htm) totally eliminate it).

Then came the CD.

* you just stuck it in the player, pushed "play" and you're done. No cleaning or handling delicate tonearms.

* no pops & clicks

* they could get lots of scratches & fingerprints but still play correctly

* you could skip almost instantly to any track you wanted - wow!!

* they never wore out simply from playing them.

* they sounded better than vinyl played on a cheapo $80 all-plastic "record player".

Another big factor in the downfall of vinyl was that the Compact Disc was specifically designed to fit into a standard sized car audio mounting space, not to mention small enough for portable use. These last two uses can make or break a music format.

The CD format itself has sounded better the last decade or so due to lots of research and new electronic theories, but unfortunately due to the type of mastering I mentioned above this can be a difficult thing to notice. :(

But one thing that vinyl has over CD is....well, I can't put my finger on it exactly but it's a combination of its special sound, how cool (most) tables look and when they are playing a record, and that you have to work a little bit to hear your music. (y)

The Sony CDP-101 (http://history.acusd.edu/gen/recording/cd.html) was the first CD player (review (http://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/193/index.html)). It cost about $900. A lot of players back then played CDs vertically, like this Technics (http://www.vintagetechnics.com/cdplayers/slp10.htm). It was cool to see them spinning in there!:D

[b-grrrlie]

I never stopped buying vinyl, but most of the stuff has been very hard to find (or non-existent) on vinyl. Now even the prices have gone up a lot.

[FunkyHiFi]

Found a site with easy-to-see visuals & explanations of overcompression.

The Death of Dynamic Range: A Chronology of the Compact Disc Loudness Wars (http://www.mindspring.com/~mrichter/dynamics/dynamics.htm)

That effect can be physically dificult to listen to & me and others are starting to suspect that this nasty sound is causing many people to limit the amount of music they listen to i.e. they may not know what overcompression is, but unconsciously-speaking their *brain* sure does.

This practice can literally ruin music & once it's done, no software can uncompress it.

FYI: A common example of an overcompressed CD is the Beatle's "1" album that came out a few years ago.

Remember, most of the time it's not the CD/vinyl's engineer or the musician that wants their music recorded this way, it's the label's business department, who thinks loud and in-your-face recordings sell better. Huh? When was the last time you bought music based on how loud it was compared to another group's CD?

All this is why having lawyers & accountants running a business that deals with art is a very bad idea.:(

[DeeJayZap]

it would be 90% of sales if there were any vinyl stores near me lol

theres none for an hour from my house and i only get to go there every few months...

[FunkyHiFi]

* Acoustic Sounds (http://store.acousticsounds.com/store.cfm)

* Audio Fidelity (http://www.audiofidelity.net/) (this is the label that sells music mastered by that Steve Hoffman guy I've mentioned: vacuum tube/all analog gear; EQ and carefully-applied compression used only when absolutely neccesary. This is why people that own certain CDs of his warn others that when a crescendo or other "power moment" comes along on an album, they should be careful where their volume knob is set).

* Classic Records (http://classicrecords.com/) This company is going to be working with EMI to release some really good stuff, like Radiohead and Roxy Music. It seems like their may be a chance they may get to issue remastered Beatles music on vinyl (the present Beatles CDs do not sound as good as they could). Read more about that here (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=83039).

[FunkyHiFi]

This is kind of off-topic but had to share this :D (people who own VW buses will love it):

The "Record Runner" (http://microgroove.jp/archives/2006/08/tamco_record_runner_musicn.html)

The little movie - the small 1" X 2" picture below the large still photo - showing this gizmo in action is actually a Quicktime window. Double clicking on it will run the movie. Funny!

[TAL]

The Vinyl Killer (http://www.razy-works.com/shop/shop_j/shop_j.html) was advertised in Grand Royal Magazine back in the day.

[Jitters]

Since I dont really listen to any new music artists I almost always pick up the vinyl version of an album, unless it's some rock group who don't do vinyl releases and since I stopped listening to new rock pretty much all of my album purchases are on vinyl. Which brings me to my point, vinyl is way cooler than CD's. It's fun to collect records, look at the artwork, listen to and more. I really agree with the other poster who said he didn't know what happened to records. The only downside to them for me is that because no records stores are at where I live I am forced to buy them off of Ebay and if it's a popular album sometimes it can get very costly as opposed to only paying 14 dollars for the CD. I was curious, do any of you have stores that carry vinyl records where you live?

[FunkyHiFi]

Vinyl killer is right!:eek:

Record stores: here in Houston there are lots of places that sell vinyl, both new & used. Like Soundwaves (http://www.soundwaves.com/surf.asp?pageID=surf), Cactus Records,* Half Price Books (http://www.halfpricebooks.com/index.html) and Vinal Edge (http://www.vinaledge.com/) (this store ships globally).

And a lot of independent labels sell it directly or through small shops. Ubiquity Records and Eighteenth Street Lounge Music (owned by the duo that makes up Thievery Corporation) are examples. For example: I'm thinking of buying Breakestra's last album (http://www.ubiquityrecords.com/ur178.html) from Ubiquity directly and both the CD and LP only cost $10 each (shipping is about $5 but thats no biggy). ESL's (http://eslmusic.com/) vinyl choice varies every few months, but they usually have a good selection of 12" and 7" remix singles.

* this store finally had to close. :( For some of the reasons why, here's an excerpt from their site (http://www.cactusmusicandvideo.com/): Independent music stores have endured much in the last few years including high list prices, the decline of the CD, file sharing, downloading, CD burning, predatory pricing from big-box retailers, and (in our case) the decline of video rental.

[Documad]

I don't understand the first story. It seems like they are saying that when a band releases a SINGLE, the vinyl outsells the CD. I didn't know that you could even buy a single on a CD. I've seen EPs with a few extra songs I guess -- like Beasties do. I see 7" singles of the coolest bands but most artists don't release 7" singles at all. There's no way vinyl is outselling CDs. No record store I've been to has anywhere near as much vinyl as CDs.

I still buy vinyl but only if it's one of the few groups that I collect, or if the art is really good. Much of the new vinyl is crappy quality and the ones that are good quality are too expensive. It would be great if it caught on though, because then maybe I'd find a needle for under $50.

[Jitters]

I don't understand the first story. It seems like they are saying that when a band releases a SINGLE, the vinyl outsells the CD.

Well, when you think about it, it makes sense, almost nobody buys CD's anymore, they just download it for free. People still collect vinyl though, so it might not be that hard for vinyl sales to surpass CD sales.

[FunkyHiFi]

Documad: AFAIK *true* CD singles, those small 3" discs with jsut a couple tracks on them (just like a vinyl 45) haven't been sold for several years now, a dumb decision on the Big Four label's part. Their version of a "single" is now a regular CD with 3-5 tracks and sometimes even video bonuses......and the dumbest part is that they cost from $6 to $9 apiece! Almost compeltely negates the reason for buying the entire album (i.e. a less costly alternative for casual fans of that particular band).

almost nobody buys CD's anymore, they just download it for free.I can't remember the exact number right now, but when counting legal sales of music, CDs still account for the large majority of sales, IIRC about 85%.

(my statistics courses are talking now :) ): whenever someone does a survey of who is doing something, remember to take into account EVERYONE in that group, the group in this case being music fans. In my part of that group, most of my same-age relatives, friends & colleagues don't do much downloading & mostly still buy CDs. But when I talk to teenagers (neighbors, relatives whoever) they look at me funny when I tell them I still buy CDs. Remember also my age group buys different music than most teens and "our" music (in album form) usually still has enough good tracks so it is worth buying the entire album*, compared to so much newer material sold by the Big Four labels where their lawyers/accountants pressured the band to come up with a big chart topping single or two , but didn't give them enough time to come up with good material for the remainder of the album.

In the olden days i.e. before the huge corporations took over, most big labels were run by people who had a head for business AND loved music. They had dozens of bands on their roster & while each band individually didn't always make tons of cash, *together* all those bands did make a lot of $$$ for the label. Also, the owners back then usually had more patience & allowed newer bands to develop and expriement more & in the long term we got better music and the label made more money because this higher quality music sold better and usually for longer periods of time (for example, a band from the 60s called the Beatles is still sold by pretty much every retailer to this day).

But now lawyers and accountants mostly run the big music corporations, and these people seem to care little about music and only care about making lots of cash and doing it quickly as possible (and the company's shareholders are also breathing down their necks - these people have a lot of power in a publicly held corporation, too much IMO). This money-is-god attittude is a bad match with an art-oriented organization like the music business.

* many older - and now some new ones - albums tell a complete story, so buying only a couple singles from it kind of messes up that concept

[FunkyHiFi]

Not to sound like a Universal fan-boy, but that label is the only one so far making an effort to drop prices on CDs and not just obscure crap no one listens to. At most music stores (the kind you drive to, not the ones on your monitor) UMG now has lots of albums and comps that only cost from $7 to $9. Even Best Buy is starting to carry them but they cost more than at the independent shops. :rolleyes: And these are from major bands like U2, Weezer, Beck, etc and the comps are from newer and older bands like Parliament, The Who, etc. The artwork on the comps isn't that great but that's O.K. given the price. According to people on pro music forums, the packaging i.e. the case and espeically the inner booklets, for a complete CD package costs more than the CD disc itself. In Europe UMG recently announced a new three stage pricing deal where new CDs will be sold in varying levels of "dress" I guess you could say, so the cheapest will start around $8 and the most expensive around $20. Hopefully they will do that here also.

The reason I talk so much about those Big Four labels is because they own SO much of the good-to-great music made in the last 60 years, and they still control much of the latest good stuff. Check out UMG's huge list here (http://www.universalmusicgroup.com). Luckily though the true indpendents are still out there too to keep things fresh ("true" because many so-called indpendents are actually owned by one of the big labels).

[Teh]

Lot of the new music i've been gettin into recently has only been coming out on vinyl, indie-rave and stuff likes that.

I've been collecting vinyl for about a year now so i'm all for it. It's overdue a comeback!