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View Full Version : The trend toward immaturity...


Qdrop
06-26-2006, 10:21 AM
From discovery.com>>

June 23, 2006 —The adage "like a kid at heart" may be truer than we think, since new research is showing that grown-ups are more immature than ever.

Specifically, it seems a growing number of people are retaining the behaviors and attitudes associated with youth.

As a consequence, many older people simply never achieve mental adulthood, according to a leading expert on evolutionary psychiatry.

Among scientists, the phenomenon is called psychological neoteny.

The theory’s creator is Bruce Charlton, a professor in the School of Biology at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne, England. He also serves as the editor-in-chief of Medical Hypotheses, which will feature a paper outlining his theory in an upcoming issue.

Charlton explained to Discovery News that humans have an inherent attraction to physical youth, since it can be a sign of fertility, health and vitality. In the mid-20th century, however, another force kicked in, due to increasing need for individuals to change jobs, learn new skills, move to new places and make new friends.

A “child-like flexibility of attitudes, behaviors and knowledge” is probably adaptive to the increased instability of the modern world, Charlton believes. Formal education now extends well past physical maturity, leaving students with minds that are, he said, “unfinished.”

“The psychological neoteny effect of formal education is an accidental by-product — the main role of education is to increase general, abstract intelligence and prepare for economic activity,” he explained.

“But formal education requires a child-like stance of receptivity to new learning, and cognitive flexibility."

"When formal education continues into the early twenties," he continued, "it probably, to an extent, counteracts the attainment of psychological maturity, which would otherwise occur at about this age.”

Charlton pointed out that past cultures often marked the advent of adulthood with initiation ceremonies.

While the human mind responds to new information over the course of any individual’s lifetime, Charlton argues that past physical environments were more stable and allowed for a state of psychological maturity. In hunter-gatherer societies, that maturity was probably achieved during a person’s late teens or early twenties, he said.

“By contrast, many modern adults fail to attain this maturity, and such failure is common and indeed characteristic of highly educated and, on the whole, effective and socially valuable people," he said.

"People such as academics, teachers, scientists and many other professionals are often strikingly immature outside of their strictly specialist competence in the sense of being unpredictable, unbalanced in priorities, and tending to overreact.”

Charlton added that since modern cultures now favor cognitive flexibility, “immature” people tend to thrive and succeed, and have set the tone not only for contemporary life, but also for the future, when it is possible our genes may even change as a result of the psychological shift.

The faults of youth are retained along with the virtues, he believes. These include short attention span, sensation and novelty-seeking, short cycles of arbitrary fashion and a sense of cultural shallowness.

At least “youthfulness is no longer restricted to youth,” he said, due to overall improvements in food and healthcare, along with cosmetic technologies.

David Brooks, a social commentator and an op-ed columnist at The New York Times, has documented a somewhat related phenomenon concerning the current blurring of “the bourgeois world of capitalism and the bohemian counterculture,” which Charlton believes is a version of psychological neoteny.

Brooks believes such individuals have lost the wisdom and maturity of their bourgeois predecessors due to more emphasis placed on expertise, flexibility and vitality.

-------

see, there's a reason why most of you people are idiots.

zorra_chiflada
06-26-2006, 10:24 AM
you are

Qdrop
06-26-2006, 10:24 AM
you are

no, you are...infinity.


i win.

zorra_chiflada
06-26-2006, 10:26 AM
INFINITY PLUS ONE NO RETURNS! :cool:

Echewta
06-26-2006, 10:30 AM
poo poo

LOL

Echewta
06-26-2006, 10:41 AM
Busy beaver.

LOL

Bob
06-26-2006, 10:44 AM
fukkin owned nub

kll
06-26-2006, 11:00 AM
It also seems that there are more people (couples) than ever NOT having children... this could coincide with the immaturity argument or even show a sense of denial as to what their actual age is...

kaiser soze
06-26-2006, 11:17 AM
*slides Star Wars figures into trash can and shoves it under the desk.*

who you calling immature?

Echewta
06-26-2006, 11:18 AM
http://www.gkko.com/videos/3460/guy-finds-out-baby-isnt-his/

Qdrop
06-26-2006, 11:22 AM
http://www.gkko.com/videos/3460/guy-finds-out-baby-isnt-his/

I JUST THOUGHT HE WAS REALLY TAN!

Tzar
06-26-2006, 11:33 AM
i'd represent some immaturity on this board, yeah?

the immaturity that annoys the 'mature' people.

Echewta
06-26-2006, 11:39 AM
I JUST THOUGHT HE WAS REALLY TAN!
Seriously. What was he thinking?

marsdaddy
06-26-2006, 11:48 AM
28 is the new 18!

g-mile7
06-26-2006, 11:51 AM
immaturity is a realtive term, all depends on the person passing that judgement.

marsdaddy
06-26-2006, 11:53 AM
immaturity is a realtive term, all depends on the person passing that judgement.Actually, no. There are developmental measurements of maturity and immaturity.

g-mile7
06-26-2006, 12:00 PM
Actually, no. There are developmental measurements of maturity and immaturity.


I don't buy that I'm sorry. Einsten is famous for his picture of him on a bike, sticking his tounge out and what not and I am sure some of the other high end, mature people might have looked at him with the "he so immature" look. It is a relative term to me.

marsdaddy
06-26-2006, 12:06 PM
I don't buy that I'm sorry. Einsten is famous for his picture of him on a bike, sticking his tounge out and what not and I am sure some of the other high end, mature people might have looked at him with the "he so immature" look. It is a relative term to me.Questioning others' opinions is not the same as ignoring facts. Einstein might have been immature -- who cares?! The fact is clapping hands, coloring in the lines, and not hitting others are all signs of maturity.

wrongwayandugg
06-26-2006, 12:14 PM
28 is the new 18!

i want to make a wish on my 81st birthday to be 18 again. and then switch places with my 18 year old nephew. then i'ma call up fred savage.

g-mile7
06-26-2006, 12:19 PM
Questioning others' opinions is not the same as ignoring facts. Einstein might have been immature -- who cares?! The fact is clapping hands, coloring in the lines, and not hitting others are all signs of maturity.


I was using an example with the Einstein comment. Maturity is whatever you define it. You define mental and physical growth in your argument, I was not.

Mot
06-26-2006, 12:45 PM
It also seems that there are more people (couples) than ever NOT having children... this could coincide with the immaturity argument or even show a sense of denial as to what their actual age is...
sence of denial... ???
So once a couple has reached a certin age, they either have kids or they are immature?

kll
06-26-2006, 01:07 PM
sence of denial... ???
So once a couple has reached a certin age, they either have kids or they are immature?


Um, it's not so black and white.

cj hood
06-26-2006, 01:11 PM
From discovery.com>>

June 23, 2006 —The adage "like a kid at heart" may be truer than we think, since new research is showing that grown-ups are more immature than ever.

Specifically, it seems a growing number of people are retaining the behaviors and attitudes associated with youth.

As a consequence, many older people simply never achieve mental adulthood, according to a leading expert on evolutionary psychiatry.

Among scientists, the phenomenon is called psychological neoteny.

The theory’s creator is Bruce Charlton, a professor in the School of Biology at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne, England. He also serves as the editor-in-chief of Medical Hypotheses, which will feature a paper outlining his theory in an upcoming issue.

Charlton explained to Discovery News that humans have an inherent attraction to physical youth, since it can be a sign of fertility, health and vitality. In the mid-20th century, however, another force kicked in, due to increasing need for individuals to change jobs, learn new skills, move to new places and make new friends.

A “child-like flexibility of attitudes, behaviors and knowledge” is probably adaptive to the increased instability of the modern world, Charlton believes. Formal education now extends well past physical maturity, leaving students with minds that are, he said, “unfinished.”

“The psychological neoteny effect of formal education is an accidental by-product — the main role of education is to increase general, abstract intelligence and prepare for economic activity,” he explained.

“But formal education requires a child-like stance of receptivity to new learning, and cognitive flexibility."

"When formal education continues into the early twenties," he continued, "it probably, to an extent, counteracts the attainment of psychological maturity, which would otherwise occur at about this age.”

Charlton pointed out that past cultures often marked the advent of adulthood with initiation ceremonies.

While the human mind responds to new information over the course of any individual’s lifetime, Charlton argues that past physical environments were more stable and allowed for a state of psychological maturity. In hunter-gatherer societies, that maturity was probably achieved during a person’s late teens or early twenties, he said.

“By contrast, many modern adults fail to attain this maturity, and such failure is common and indeed characteristic of highly educated and, on the whole, effective and socially valuable people," he said.

"People such as academics, teachers, scientists and many other professionals are often strikingly immature outside of their strictly specialist competence in the sense of being unpredictable, unbalanced in priorities, and tending to overreact.”

Charlton added that since modern cultures now favor cognitive flexibility, “immature” people tend to thrive and succeed, and have set the tone not only for contemporary life, but also for the future, when it is possible our genes may even change as a result of the psychological shift.

The faults of youth are retained along with the virtues, he believes. These include short attention span, sensation and novelty-seeking, short cycles of arbitrary fashion and a sense of cultural shallowness.

At least “youthfulness is no longer restricted to youth,” he said, due to overall improvements in food and healthcare, along with cosmetic technologies.

David Brooks, a social commentator and an op-ed columnist at The New York Times, has documented a somewhat related phenomenon concerning the current blurring of “the bourgeois world of capitalism and the bohemian counterculture,” which Charlton believes is a version of psychological neoteny.

Brooks believes such individuals have lost the wisdom and maturity of their bourgeois predecessors due to more emphasis placed on expertise, flexibility and vitality.

-------

see, there's a reason why most of you people are idiots.


this is simiar to the 'parentified child' syndrome......where the kid has so many responsibilities thrusted on them as a child that they end up acting like kids their adult life.......like michael jax!

i dont' care what you do as an adult......but as soon as you have kids, you gotta straighten out your act and make your kids your #1 priority.....kids have problems today that we didn't see when we we're kids.....mostly cuz their 'parents' care more about themselves then their children........

Mot
06-26-2006, 01:13 PM
Um, it's not so black and white.(y)

I agree, I must have read it that way.


I just hear this stuff from the parents and the in-laws and I was curious if that is what you thought.

kll
06-26-2006, 04:28 PM
(y)

I agree, I must have read it that way.


I just hear this stuff from the parents and the in-laws and I was curious if that is what you thought.


I think that among some of my friends who are married, but don't have children that they are a bit unaware of how old we are really getting and how quickly it's going by, but freak out when they actually sit and ponder it...

marsdaddy
06-26-2006, 06:41 PM
I think that among some of my friends who are married, but don't have children that they are a bit unaware of how old we are really getting and how quickly it's going by, but freak out when they actually sit and ponder it...Many people want to make sure they start off their kids' lives as close to perfect, as possible -- which is, of course, impossible, and maybe even a bit immature. Getting established in a career and settling down takes longer than expected. People start to believe they're immortal and just about the time they it out figure, they're their talking to fertility doctors.

Since I knew I wanted kids, mrs. marsdaddy and I pulled out of that pattern just in time.

ms.peachy
06-27-2006, 07:04 AM
Many people want to make sure they start off their kids' lives as close to perfect, as possible -- which is, of course, impossible, and maybe even a bit immature. Getting established in a career and settling down takes longer than expected. People start to believe they're immortal and just about the time they it out figure, they're their talking to fertility doctors.

Oh, I don't know about that. Mr.p and I waited until now partly because we wanted to be more financially secure, but in truth we've been reasonably financially secure and established in our chosen fields for some time. Mostly we waited because, quite frankly, we were really enjoying our lifestyle. Being relatively high-earning urbanites with no dependants has been a blast - lots of restaurants, world travel, concerts and theater, shopping - let's face it, these things are much less practical with kids in tow. We lived it up and loved it. It's been fun, for sure. I don't think we were being immature at all though, just self indulgent.

Now we have the baby and life is different and it's great and lovely and still fun, but in wholly different ways. I feel I've had the best of both worlds really. I never thought I was 'immortal' and I certainly knew I wouldn't be fertile forever, but I sure didn't feel any desire to give up my 20's or early 30's to being a parent.