careers

[drizl]

who the fuck really wants a career anyways? were we put here to work? to live lives where we have to "search for meaning" because we have become so disillusioned by our generic realities? to find something we "enjoy doing" copping out and giving in. i think i much rather living lightly, hitchiking, eating good food, making friends, watching sunrises and sunsets and seeing beautiful places and experiencing beautiful things. i will never be the architect i was supposed to be:P

[jlees_mcsd]

I plan on having a late-life career so my hubby can retire early and then after all the kids move out we are going to travel the world. I set a 20 year goal for us when we got married and I only have 15 more to go. I think we would all love to live the care-free life, but there are house payments and car payments and friggin' insurance to be paid therefore you get the need for careers which pay more than jobs. :cool:

[drizl]

in 20 years you wont be able to travel the world. it will be a much different place, and id say youd be lucky to survive.

your goals would drive me crazy, as im sure my lack of goals would to you. at least we have that.

[jlees_mcsd]

in 20 years you wont be able to travel the world. it will be a much different place, and id say youd be lucky to survive.

your goals would drive me crazy, as im sure my lack of goals would to you. at least we have that.
:cool:
Life is what you get out of it. :o (y)

[drizl]

cool yeah thumbs up

[Ace42X]

Careers suck ass. That's why it always amuses me when people try and equate "success" with "my job" - to me success is not NEEDING a job.

[drizl]

word up

[jlees_mcsd]

Careers suck ass. That's why it always amuses me when people try and equate "success" with "my job" - to me success is not NEEDING a job.
Well in order to get to the not needing a job point in life you need to work towards it, very few ppl don't need a job and I never thought of a career as a measure of success, just a means to an end.

[drizl]

i tried that...and i finished school and all that crap. they taught me how to be a productive member of society. that is what careers are all about. moving society forward, thats the bullshit by "finding something you are happy doing"...giving into the system, sacraficing your time and lifes energy towards being that cog in the wheel for a trade-off of the feeling of security. its amazing what happens when you give up being afraid, give up your own security, your weapons of privelage. thats the best way to experience life. not as a tourist.

[Ace42X]

Well in order to get to the not needing a job point in life you need to work towards it,

Sucker! That's why you have nothing, and Paris Hilton is super-rich!

[yeahwho]

Sucker! That's why you have nothing, and Paris Hilton is super-rich!

yeah but, what if ma and pa named her Pittsburgh Hilton?

[Ace42X]

yeah but, what if ma and pa named her Pittsburgh Hilton?

She's rich enough to call herself whatever she wants, and have people go along with it.

[drizl]

shed be a rich stupid slut

[The Notorious LOL]

sounds like a lot of idealistic hippy shit to me.

[jlees_mcsd]

Sucker! That's why you have nothing, and Paris Hilton is super-rich!
* very few ppl don't need a job *

I guess you didn't see that part of my post, besides there is nothing wrong with having a career that YOU choose. I want to be a police officer, that doesn't make me disillusioned, it makes me not working at Wal-mart getting $7 an hour and treated like a sheep.

[enree erzweglle]

i tried that...and i finished school and all that crap. they taught me how to be a productive member of society. that is what careers are all about. moving society forward, thats the bullshit by "finding something you are happy doing"...giving into the system, sacraficing your time and lifes energy towards being that cog in the wheel for a trade-off of the feeling of security. its amazing what happens when you give up being afraid, give up your own security, your weapons of privelage. thats the best way to experience life. not as a tourist.

Happy compromises. I don't think I could have raised my kid living day-to-day. And I don't think I'd want to sustain a life living that way myself either.

I work to support a lifestyle that allows me to do the things I want and need to do and that definitely includes learning about this life, people, & the arts and sciences, and diving into more spiritual matters.

I don't think I could sustain this level of learning without working. My job isn't a career--it's a job that I enjoy and I do it fairly well; it supports me in an okay way and my life is filled with lots of things that I absolutely love and that challenge me on different levels. I can see a sunrise or a sunset from anywhere--it's a matter of whether/not I'm healthy and happy and fulfilled otherwise as to whether I'll get out of it what I could and should.

[Bob]

i read (a summary of) the myth of sisiphus (don't know how that's spelled) by camus the other day, it's about a greek myth about a guy who's punished by the gods and made to roll a boulder up a hill every day, only to have it roll back down after he's done. and you think about that, and you think, "oh my, what a cruel fate", but camus' point was that our own existences aren't any different. and i was thinking about that as i was mowing the lawn later that day, and he's right, really. i mow the lawn every week, only to have it grow back. i go to work every day, and get nothing accomplished in any truly significant sense. and on and on and on until the end, and nothing that happens between the day we're born and the day we die really honestly truly matters in any universal sense, and the only values our actions have are those that we give them.

anyway that said, i'm happier having a job than i'd be being unemployed. i like structure, what can i say? that's a value that i picked.

different roads to happiness, that's all it is

[zorra_chiflada]

is drizl's avatar an illuminated anus?

[fucktopgirl]

who the fuck really wants a career anyways? were we put here to work? to live lives where we have to "search for meaning" because we have become so disillusioned by our generic realities? to find something we "enjoy doing" copping out and giving in. i think i much rather living lightly, hitchiking, eating good food, making friends, watching sunrises and sunsets and seeing beautiful places and experiencing beautiful things. i will never be the architect i was supposed to be:P

Indeed, career in the conventional path are a bit lacking of sense and not really sell fulfilling, for me anyway, i like to make my own path and getting out the the beaten highway! I personnaly found my passion/money making job by pure coincidence: mosaic, i did not go to school for it! I enjoy doing it and i can make a lot of money if i play my cards right. But my goal is not to be full of cash and have a pension and a house and this and that . I would like to have enought to travel and enjoy this world and like you said meet new people and bullshit about life and whatever. And just fill my memory of awesome place . I dont want to be a slave and afraid of not having enought .

Security for me is the death of the adventurous side in each of us and i recall that my best moment in my life was when i did jump in the emptiness and try a different thing or approach to my life, when i experience thing that where not planned, the thrill of the unknow excited me more then the security of a boring "routine".

So anyway following the "path " of studying and having a carreer /a good job, nice car, nice house is not appealing to me at all!

ANd yea, i dont think that we are put here to work like slave and accumulated materiels, i think this ideology has been implanted in our brain by this society who just want performance and is drowning in her opulence and vanity. I think we are for others purposes!


Anyway,
To each their own!

Sorry for my grammar mistakes, i am sure there is plenty!

[drizl]

* very few ppl don't need a job *

I guess you didn't see that part of my post, besides there is nothing wrong with having a career that YOU choose. I want to be a police officer, that doesn't make me disillusioned, it makes me not working at Wal-mart getting $7 an hour and treated like a sheep.


haha, makes you get all high on your ego and power trip too. makes you think you have the right to tell people what to do, or to take things from them. i dont like police officers, they do some good things, but as a friend once said:
i plead anarchy. whats an anarchist? its someone who doesnt need a cop to tell them what to do. whats the point of laws judge, the good people dont need them, and the bad people dont listen to them anyways?"

[drizl]

Happy compromises. I don't think I could have raised my kid living day-to-day. And I don't think I'd want to sustain a life living that way myself either.

I work to support a lifestyle that allows me to do the things I want and need to do and that definitely includes learning about this life, people, & the arts and sciences, and diving into more spiritual matters.

I don't think I could sustain this level of learning without working. My job isn't a career--it's a job that I enjoy and I do it fairly well; it supports me in an okay way and my life is filled with lots of things that I absolutely love and that challenge me on different levels. I can see a sunrise or a sunset from anywhere--it's a matter of whether/not I'm healthy and happy and fulfilled otherwise as to whether I'll get out of it what I could and should.


this on the otherhand, i find honorable. this is true sacrafice.

[drizl]

is drizl's avatar an illuminated anus?


actually, cool story, its a cell. its kirlian photography of a cell's energetic response to drinking highly structured, blessed water. fascinating stuff. there are these "vortex machines" out there, that make this really powerful vortex in water, which serves to restructure, resensitize and revitalize water. they had a person drink a glass of regular tap water and showed the energetic response via a cell at the fingertip, then gave them a glass of the energized water some time later and the cell reacted instantly and emitted light! really interested study:) i am trying to make sculpture right now that induces this vortex structure upon the water, revitalizing it for use in constructed wetlands, ponds, wastewater treatment, biodynamic preparations etc...
hope it works out:) they are called flowforms!

[ms.peachy]

actually, cool story, its a cell. its kirlian photography of a cell's energetic response to drinking highly structured, blessed water. fascinating stuff. there are these "vortex machines" out there, that make this really powerful vortex in water, which serves to restructure, resensitize and revitalize water. they had a person drink a glass of regular tap water and showed the energetic response via a cell at the fingertip, then gave them a glass of the energized water some time later and the cell reacted instantly and emitted light! really interested study:)
Now, if there were not people out there who really enjoy their careers and are passionate about their life's work, how would this have ever come about?

[monkey]

actually, cool story, its a cell. its kirlian photography of a cell's energetic response to drinking highly structured, blessed water. fascinating stuff. there are these "vortex machines" out there, that make this really powerful vortex in water, which serves to restructure, resensitize and revitalize water. they had a person drink a glass of regular tap water and showed the energetic response via a cell at the fingertip, then gave them a glass of the energized water some time later and the cell reacted instantly and emitted light! really interested study:) i am trying to make sculpture right now that induces this vortex structure upon the water, revitalizing it for use in constructed wetlands, ponds, wastewater treatment, biodynamic preparations etc...
hope it works out:) they are called flowforms!

i read about this and saw some electron photographs of ice made out of tap, purified, and holy water. it's a really interesting subject. cant wait to see your work on it.

[beastieangel01]

I always felt the same way but at the same time, I kind of want the typical house and family at some point.

I'm going to school and want to get a degree to be able to get a job and all that. But I do hope to take some time off after graduating to teach english in foreign countries for a few years, just cause.

[Bob]

Careers suck ass. That's why it always amuses me when people try and equate "success" with "my job" - to me success is not NEEDING a job.

to me, this statement sums it all up perfectly; especially the "to me", part. objectively speaking, there is no such thing as success, there's no right way or wrong way to live your life, at best there's just a lot of intersubjective agreement. success is being happy with the way things are. if that involves a career, groovy, if not, fine.

i guess that can be seen as kind of a selfish philosophy, but there it is.

[enree erzweglle]

to me, this statement sums it all up perfectly; especially the "to me", part. objectively speaking, there is no such thing as success, there's no right way or wrong way to live your life, at best there's just a lot of intersubjective agreement. success is being happy with the way things are. if that involves a career, groovy, if not, fine.

i guess that can be seen as kind of a selfish philosophy, but there it is.
You don't sound like Bob today. Or rather, Bob doesn't always sound like this.

[Bob]

is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[enree erzweglle]

It's neither. I just noticed it. Especially in your lawnmower/grass post.

[Bob]

It's neither. I just noticed it. Especially in your lawnmower/grass post.

i'm trying to get in as much creative thought as possible before law school starts and i don't have time for it

[enree erzweglle]

i'm trying to get in as much creative thought as possible before law school starts and i don't have time for itYou are certainly in the right place because this place is teeming with virtuosity.

[drizl]

Now, if there were not people out there who really enjoy their careers and are passionate about their life's work, how would this have ever come about?



when i think of career, i think of boredom...i dont know why, but i picture someone in a cubicle convincing themselves that their life is good, and living a life devoid of anything real or meaningful to the human experience.
then there is passion.i think of being a productive member of society, of playing the part of citizen to society...
if you can find something you are passionate about, and make money doing it, then you are using your time for something productive. how often are people passionate about their careers.
in the case of someone wanting to be in a position of power, wanting to work their way up the corporate ladder, wanting to be a boss or have more money to do more things...i think that is phoney baloney and the kind of greedy bullshit that has led to the age we live in- the age of degradation and suffering. and just because you and i arent suffering or living in poverty, doesnt mean no one else is. the majority of the world lives in poverty.



these people who have observed this phenomena fight against the establishment of science. because their work, like the work of many others in many other fields offers evidence which threatens the foundations of the current paradigm. they are a small part of the larger context of a movement which will bring about a paradigm shift in thinking, in the sciences, in human consciousness. these people have found passion in truth and discovery, and indeed in nature. they are heroes. it is their lifes-work, not their career

[drizl]

i read about this and saw some electron photographs of ice made out of tap, purified, and holy water. it's a really interesting subject. cant wait to see your work on it.

yes! masuru emoto, or emoto masuru:) his work is beautiful! i will post some pictures of my own work with the flowforms soon!

[Ace42X]

* very few ppl don't need a job *

How true is that, though?

"Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?" Mat 6:26

"Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:" Mat 6:28

"Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?"
Mat 6:31

What do people *need* ?

Yes, people need money to buy a car to go to their job to afford to buy petrol. That is circular. It is consumption gone wild, and it is a spiral which will only ever escalate in cost and work.

People wake up in darkness, illuminated by electricity they have to pay for, go out to work, and when they leave their job, they drive home in darkness - working longer hours than any serf in a field - and this without the 150 "holy days" in the old calender which they would have had off.

For all the labour saving devices, still each one of us labours more. We "need" to more than those who went before us? Or we *prefer* to? I do not think we "need" to do half of the things we assume are prerequisits of our daily lives. We do so because "well, that's just how it IS..." without any thought of what that actually means.

[jlees_mcsd]

I do not think we "need" to do half of the things we assume are prerequisits of our daily lives. We do so because "well, that's just how it IS..." without any thought of what that actually means.


So give me some examples because I feel like I need everything I have right now. I can't be self-sufficant, for lack of land and knowledge. What are my options? Work till I'm too old to stand straight and die with a house and car that liqufies into cash for my three kids. What a wonderful legacy.

[hitmonlee]

who the fuck really wants a career anyways? were we put here to work? to live lives where we have to "search for meaning" because we have become so disillusioned by our generic realities? to find something we "enjoy doing" copping out and giving in. i think i much rather living lightly, hitchiking, eating good food, making friends, watching sunrises and sunsets and seeing beautiful places and experiencing beautiful things. i will never be the architect i was supposed to be:P


Who am I? What is my purpose in life?
Does it really, cosmically speaking, matter if I don't get up and go to work?


i suppose i would like a career, but i don't know what the fuck i want to do :confused:

[Waus]

Feh. "Career" is such a relative term.

I love doing what I do, and I wouldn't want to live without doing it. I don't really have any plans to ever retire from doing it. Having a career that you don't enjoy, or that causes stress in your life is one thing, but a "career" that's something you love is another.

I don't work so that I won't have to work anymore, and I think that that's the sign that you've found the right job.

[jlees_mcsd]

^^The whole reason I choose to have a career over a job.

[Ace42X]

So give me some examples because I feel like I need everything I have right now.

Pretty much everything except Food, Shelter, and Water. I'd be willing to add "Love / Sex" as well. Everything else is a "convenience" and, by definition, not a "need."

Work, and the hassles that go with it, are an "inconvenience." The question is, at what point do the conveniences outweigh the inconveniences? Given how discontent people are with their consumerist lives (always wanting something new, always wanting a better job, better car, etc etc) and given that no-one really tries to do without these conveniences to see, one can assume that most people have no idea about the balance, they never really consider it. For those who need to work longer, there is electricity and caffeine, and when you get headaches from this, and your immune system is low due to stress (the UKs biggest killer if you factor in the numerous disorders which are linked to it), you have paracetemol to cure the headache and lower blood pressure. Of course, medication costs, so you have to work a bit harder, etc etc.

"I couldn't live without my paracetemol" - ah, but if you didn't work so hard, you might not need to buy it in the first place. Ditto for cars. People need to get a ride down to the shops because they are not fit enough to walk there, because they don't walk there in order to get fit because they have cars. They have to get to work earlier, so they can afford to buy, run and tax their cars, which they use to get to work earlier.

I can't be self-sufficant, for lack of land and knowledge. What are my options? Work till I'm too old to stand straight and die with a house and car that liqufies into cash for my three kids. What a wonderful legacy.

Self-sufficiency is an illusion. Mankind is clearly more than self-sufficient, as our gross produce is more than our gross consumption. The problem is one of distribution. Civilisation, from the Romans to the Renaissance, has been brought about by improvements in technology / society allowing a minority to be able to provide for the majority. The oppulence of these empires is a testament to these principles. In the twentieth century, it is truer than ever. And yet, as pointed out, few people "can" (or rather do) get the option to consume without working.

Given an average lifetime income of one million pounds, a billionaire could keep a million people from working for their entire lives... (One thousand in the US, a billion is a million million here, rather than a thousand million) - we live in a world with *trillionaires* in it.

If you want to cut down on your workload without having to get your hands dirty and become "self sufficient", an easy way to do so would be to redistribute wealth equally. Of course, this can't work - proving the fundamental lie which behind capitalism, and most economic thinking - that money is anything other than arbitrary.

What needs to be done is to concentrate on automating production and efficiency, rather than finding ways to boost profit margins. Then provide the basic needs for *all* people, without any requirements other than to be a good citizen. Then society can use its efforts for refinement and civilisation, rather than the endless shin-kicking that is capitalist progress.

[jlees_mcsd]

Self-sufficiency is an illusion.

Then explain the Amish and thier success in this world of modern convience?
And with a car I could not work or go to school, I live in a very rural area, stores are 20/30 miles away. I would love to find 'balance' however that is the true illision here. A happy medium, it isn't possible.

[Yeti]

Self-sufficiency is an illusion.

Then explain the Amish and thier success in this world of modern convience?
And with a car I could not work or go to school, I live in a very rural area, stores are 20/30 miles away. I would love to find 'balance' however that is the true illision here. A happy medium, it isn't possible.


At Motel 6 in Amish Country I wonder if they leave the light on for you?

[jlees_mcsd]

At Motel 6 in Amish Country I wonder if they leave the light on for you?
LOL They usally live in the rural areas, not many motels in the woods. lol

[Yeti]

I was born near Amish country in Ohio. I also lived in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia where Mennonites lived in the countryside. I love the clip clop of horses on Sunday morning.

[jlees_mcsd]

I was born near Amish country in Ohio. I also lived in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia where Mennonites lived in the countryside. I love the clip clop of horses on Sunday morning.
I don't mind having Amish in the area, but those buggys cause alot of traffic problems here. Especially on week-ends. I live in a tourist area and the ppl the vacation here don't know how to share the road with the Amish.

[Ace42X]

Self-sufficiency is an illusion.

Then explain the Amish and thier success in this world of modern convience?
And with a car I could not work or go to school, I live in a very rural area, stores are 20/30 miles away. I would love to find 'balance' however that is the true illision here. A happy medium, it isn't possible.

The Amish are not "self-sufficient" in the sense you mean. The society has a degree of self-sustainability, but the individuals do not. You were asking how you could be self-sufficient. If you were to say "I'm Amish, I'm going to raise a barn" you'd not get very far without your fellow Ams. That is why I said it is an illusion, and explained how society needs a paradigm shift, rather than you as an individual.

Also, you contradict yourself. According to you, the Amish are self-sufficient, and have found a balance between convenience and inconvenience, and yet right after you say striking a balance is an illusion.

[Yeti]

Ain't nothin' like a good ole barn raisin'. I've seen Witness and it takes 2 women to churn butter.

How many Amish does it take to eat a possum?

3----2 to watch for traffic and 1 to eat it.

[jlees_mcsd]

The Amish are not "self-sufficient" in the sense you mean. The society has a degree of self-sustainability, but the individuals do not. You were asking how you could be self-sufficient. If you were to say "I'm Amish, I'm going to raise a barn" you'd not get very far without your fellow Ams. That is why I said it is an illusion, and explained how society needs a paradigm shift, rather than you as an individual.

Also, you contradict yourself. According to you, the Amish are self-sufficient, and have found a balance between convenience and inconvenience, and yet right after you say striking a balance is an illusion.

I did not contridict myself. In my current situation and lifestyle I couldn't be balanced, and I feel that is true. That is what I meant by no 'happy medium'.
The Amish are a perfect examople of self-sufficient, as a whole community yes but also as individuals.

[Ace42X]

I did not contridict myself. In my current situation and lifestyle I couldn't be balanced, and I feel that is true. That is what I meant by no 'happy medium'.

Then express yourself more clearly. And "in my current lifestyle and situation, I couldn't be balanced." Well duh. At what point did I say that you could find balance without changing your lifestyle? The whole POINT of the last few posts is advocating a change in lifestyle, in order to find a better balance. My point being that the reason you do not feel there is no happy medium is because you have not put effort into finding one. That is what *I* meant by We do so because "well, that's just how it IS..." without any thought of what that actually means.


The Amish are a perfect examople of self-sufficient, but also as individuals.

Nonsense. Self-sufficiency on an individual level means that you alone produce precisely what you need to survive without the aid of anyone else. For an Amish to be self-sufficient in that sense, they'd not only have to tend their farm, but also prepare food, manufacture and repair their home, etc etc without help of spouse, friends, family or community. I do not believe it is possible for an isolated Amish person to be self-sufficient in that way without having to surrender a lot of the "benefits" that are present in the Amish societies.

Even the Amish have butter on their bread, for example.

If they were truly self-sufficient, they'd have to mine all their own metal, smelt it, cast it, as well as make their own batteries and generators (which, contrary to popular belief, they are allowed to own, and many run).