Women hold serious grudges...

[Loppfessor]

The events of recent months in my life caused me to do some serious thinking about the kind of person I was, am, and want to be. Well I realized that Karma is definitely real and that I had done a lot of really shady things in my romantic life. Well I am truly sorry for them and wanted to try and set things right. I didn't make an actual written list like Earl or anything but I've been e-mailing and contacting a lot of these females apologizing for various things. A few of them have been happy to hear from me and forgiving, many haven't responded and a decent amount have been mean and pretty much told me to fuck off.

I really don't get the point of holding a grudge like that. I mean it's not like I did anything that bad. Plus one time I had an ex who hurt me really bad contact me after a long ass time. She basically told me that she was really sorry for hurting me, that she still really loved me, and that she considered losing me to be her second biggest mistake right behind marrying her now ex-husband. I was happy to hear from her and honestly it helped me get over some things. Now we're the best of friends. I dunno anyone have any opinions or insight?

[Miho Mingu]

The bigger person can forgive and forget. You'll feel better in the end, and it's also over petty details when you look at the grand scheme of things. It could always be much worse.

[Deep_Sea_Rain]

I never could understand how anyone could be friends with their ex. I'm sure it all depends on the circumstances of the breakup, but still. I just couldn't do it.

[hitmonlee]

if they told you to fuck off it doesn't necessarily mean they are holding a grudge, but that contact from you is unwelcome as they rather forget.

but yes, women hold grudges like no other. i always have a few on the boil.

if you don't hold a grudge, you might forget how that person fucked you over and let them do it again. power to the grudge!

[ms.peachy]

Everyone has to go through their own things at their own speed. Some of the women you've contacted have moved on, and some haven't. It's not about "what you did" per se, it's abouut the conversation they are in with themselves about who they are at that point in time.

For example: in my early 20's, I was in a relationship with a man who was very unkind to me. He never hit me (but the threat was always there that 'if I pushed him too far' he might explode), but he was very verbally abusive and tried really hard to make me feel shit about myself. Ultimately he was unsuccessful, because I got to a point where I said to myself "You know what, I'm worth a lot more than this."

But I was very angry with him for a few years after, and if in that time he had contacted me to say he was sorry, I have no doubt I would have told him to go fuck himself. Then eventually it dawned on me that I wasn't mad at him, I was mad at myself. Mad at myself for getting into that situation in the first place, and for wasting as much time as I did trying to 'fix' him and make it better.

And then, eventually I was able to understand what it was about me at that time that had allowed it to happen, and why I wasn't stronger straight from the beginning, and why I'd tolerated getting into that kind of relationship to begin with. Once I could see all of that clearly, I was able to forgive myself for having been a bit weak and a bit foolish, and congratulate myself for recognising that I needed to get out and get myself together. After that, forgiving him was no issue at all.

If I was to happen to talk to him again now, I'd probably thank him, because I grew a lot from that experience. I certainly learned what I will and will not tolerate in a relationship, and I learned a few things about who I am as a person. But that wouldn't have been the case in the few years following our split, if you see what I mean.

[enree erzweglle]

Some people like to withhold forgiveness or withhold even a base response--if they perceive that that's what you want/need--and they maybe do that in an effort to punish you and/or maintain control, even after the relationship is over.

Personally, the cleansing act for me is when I realize that I did a wrong thing and when I apologize in a heartfelt way to the person for having done that wrong thing. What that person does with that is their choice--everyone has different timetables and ways of dealing. If I do anything other than just apologize and move on--if I raise it repeatedly or apologize over & over--I maybe fall into playing some weird game and risk compounding things for me and the other person too.

[enree erzweglle]

if they told you to fuck off it doesn't necessarily mean they are holding a grudge, but that contact from you is unwelcome as they rather forget.Last spring, this guy I was getting to know did a few weird things and it screwed up our fairly new friendship. So after a bit of time, he apologized. I don't know about you but it's pretty easy for me to forget people who are assy/mean and by the time he apologized, I'd left that friendship behind.

Maybe that surprises him, but he keeps approaching me, apologizing, and it feels like he's maybe apologizing in an effort to restore the friendship to the exact way that it was before he fractured it. Thing is that I don't want that friendship now for a few reasons. So I just ignore him now and that's pretty easy because all of his communications are online.

Not saying that you do these things, lopp, but sometimes like hitmonlee said, someone is over a thing, it's in the past, and it's been forgotten. No grudges, per se, just maybe that the thing is absolutely a thing in the past. Anything on the part of the other person maybe feels self-serving or even invasive.

[Loppfessor]

Personally, the cleansing act for me is when I realize that I did a wrong thing and when I apologize in a heartfelt way to the person for having done that wrong thing. What that person does with that is their choice--everyone has different timetables and ways of dealing. If I do anything other than just apologize and move on--if I raise it repeatedly or apologize over & over--I maybe fall into playing some weird game and risk compounding things for me and the other person too.

Oh yeah I understand that. I mean I have learned a lot of valuable lessons and grown so much in the past few months. I am genuinely sorry for the things I have done and my apologies have been sincere. But this is just as much for me as them. I'm not going to force the issue with anyone though. At this point I have said my peace and am just going to try not to make the same mistakes in the future. That's about all any of us can do right?

[Miho Mingu]

This has nothing to do with intimate relationships, but a friendship - the only time that I have ever heartlessly ended a friendship was when I was younger, and it was done without much thought. I often remind myself how stupid I was, and how unfair it was for him to have to go through that, and at some point, I realized the impact you have on people around you - thus, I became conscious of everyone around me and what I say to them. Being considerate.

To relate this to the topic, friendships work the same way as intimate relationships - ex-friends can hold grudges forever, but if you can come to terms with yourself, and accept your past stupidity, then at least you will have settled the past...even if the person you hurt doesn't accept your apology.

[Otis Driftwood]

I never could understand how anyone could be friends with their ex. I'm sure it all depends on the circumstances of the breakup, but still. I just couldn't do it.
Too true. Everything else is just stupid nostalgia and if serialized would be like those "What if" comics from Marvel... I prefer keeping focused.

[Lex Diamonds]

I never could understand how anyone could be friends with their ex. I'm sure it all depends on the circumstances of the breakup, but still. I just couldn't do it.
Watch Seinfeld.

[Planetary]

Girls are shit. In bed. Period

especially when they're shitting and perioding in bed.

[Loppfessor]

I never could understand how anyone could be friends with their ex. I'm sure it all depends on the circumstances of the breakup, but still. I just couldn't do it.


I see what you are saying cus the only ones I'm not friends with are the ones I actually loved

[Lex Diamonds]

especially when they're shitting and perioding in bed.
LOL

[enree erzweglle]

Oh yeah I understand that. I mean I have learned a lot of valuable lessons and grown so much in the past few months. I am genuinely sorry for the things I have done and my apologies have been sincere. But this is just as much for me as them. I'm not going to force the issue with anyone though. At this point I have said my peace and am just going to try not to make the same mistakes in the future. That's about all any of us can do right?I think I got that you got that. I sometimes respond very generally to a thread and it maybe gives the thread-author a sense that I'm addressing him/her directly when I'm not. I'm just running on at the fingers. :o

I think what you typed ^^^ is so valuable. I remember starting to realize this stuff in my early 20s and then doing some conscious set of things about it after that.

I think it was a desperately alien concept in my family to argue and not resolve it to the point of everyone crying happy-tears, you know? That's how my family was and still is largely, and in my late teenage years, as I stepped beyond those sort of rudimentary relationships, I tried to extend that level of interaction into my other relationships. I guess I just assumed that it was the default mode of operation. At some point, I started to realize that not everyone works in that way and, probably most importantly, that you can lose a whole lot of time and energy trying to fit people into that model, trying to evolve things to some beautiful state when the naturally beautiful state given various circumstances of that situation is maybe something that feels wrong or misplaced at the core.

In time, I guess learned to let a lot of that go and realize that what feels right to me (a certain type of firm resolution) is not everyone's preference, and also that resolution has degrees of finality in a sense. What feels resolved to me might just be the tip of the iceberg for some people...

[SobaViolence]

lopp, just because you've grown and want to mend fences, doesn't mean the girls/women who you have done wrong to are just as prepared.

it's silly to expect those you hurt to be a receptive as you are asking.

and then some people just dislike you for a long time...
c'est la vie

[abcdefz]

...you might also factor in the notion that maybe some of these women think you're only apologizing so you can get back in with them.

Another thing: e-mail or a phone call is kind of... kind of easy, I guess. A handwritten letter, or even something like flowers might be better. And I'd probably make it very much one-way, like, "I hope you can forgive me, and if there's anything I can ever do to help you feel better about this, I'd love to."

[monkey]

^ im not sure i'd react well if i got flowers from an ex saying he's sorry. a handwritten note, maybe ok, but flowers is a little much. a phone call is kinda nice though. i find what you're doing lopp very honorable. but you cant expect everyone in your past to understand. but you're doing a nice thing, and hopefully in the future you wont have to apologize cause you'll treat the ladies well.

[abcdefz]

^ im not sure i'd react well if i got flowers from an ex saying he's sorry. a handwritten note, maybe ok, but flowers is a little much.




Really? I guess it's all in how it's done and what the appropriate level of repentance is.

But now that I think of it: you really hurt my feelings, there. Chocolates would be nice.

[monkey]

sure, just tell me what kind (http://www.godiva.com/welcome.aspx?MCID=goo_F05_GodivaTM_02&MCID2=Google) and in 10 years when i go through my apologizing time, i'll send them to ya

[abcdefz]

sure, just tell me what kind (http://www.godiva.com/welcome.aspx?MCID=goo_F05_GodivaTM_02&MCID2=Google) and in 10 years when i go through my apologizing time, i'll send them to ya

a-z (very passive-aggressively): "Ohh, I-don't-care-anything's-fine..."

[enree erzweglle]

^ im not sure i'd react well if i got flowers from an ex saying he's sorry. a handwritten note, maybe ok, but flowers is a little much. a phone call is kinda nice though. i find what you're doing lopp very honorable. but you cant expect everyone in your past to understand. but you're doing a nice thing, and hopefully in the future you wont have to apologize cause you'll treat the ladies well.That's right! It really is an honorable, great thing. You said that so perfectly, Pauli.

Sometimes you'll (general you, not Pauli or Lopp you) do a thing with the absolute BEST intentions and despite that, someone misunderstands it, they interpret what you did as being self-serving or some unintended thing. And you can't fix it because it's just beyond that point or because the person won't hear you. You only know that your heart was in a good place and if the person wants to take it into something that it wasn't, that's up to them. It is a terribly freeing thing to realize that.

And I agree with Pauli about the flowers. Email is easy, yes, but sometimes better to err on the side of being easy and convey the right sentiment than to risk getting invasive. Getting a phone call from an ex or a friend from my past is much more weird than a letter or email.

[beastiegirrl101]

I see what you are saying cus the only ones I'm not friends with are the ones I actually loved

that is so true on so many levels.

[abcdefz]

Actually, repainting her home during the dark of night is probably a good way to gain forgiveness. However much you get done -- well, it's the thought that counts!

And nothing says "I'm sorry" like lime green. (y)

[hpdrifter]

I think when you issue an apology, that's the end of it on your part. The other person can choose to accept it or not, but if its offered authentically and with real regret for your actions, that's all you need.

If she's not ready to hear it, well what peachy said is pretty right on.

Either way, does it matter how she takes it? You did your part.

[Loppfessor]

...you might also factor in the notion that maybe some of these women think you're only apologizing so you can get back in with them.

Another thing: e-mail or a phone call is kind of... kind of easy, I guess. A handwritten letter, or even something like flowers might be better. And I'd probably make it very much one-way, like, "I hope you can forgive me, and if there's anything I can ever do to help you feel better about this, I'd love to."

See I wondered about that myself. Even though I try to lay out my intentions clearly in my message I can definitely see how they may be perceived as questionable but I don’t think there’s a lot I can do about that.

As far as the other thing goes, my job has required me to move all over the place so these women are literally scattered all over the world at this point. I’ve actually been lucky to just find an e-mail address or myspace page for most of them. Anything more would probably require like a private investigator or something and I think going that far would come off as like stalker-ish or something. Plus I think flowers or candy might only feed into the notion that it’s a scheme to win them back

[enree erzweglle]

See I wondered about that myself. Even though I try to lay out my intentions clearly in my message I can definitely see how they may be perceived as questionable but I don’t think there’s a lot I can do about that. I thought of this as well, but really, you can only represent yourself 100% honestly and know that what you're doing is a good thing and leave the rest behind you. You try to convince/sway the skeptical ones and you'll probably wind up making more knots in your string.

Not that you're trying to convince anyone of anything...I'm just thinking onto my keyboard while I wait for a friend to show up.

[Loppfessor]

Yeah I mean if I told them the whole story of the past few months I'm certain they wouldn't question my intentions but I don't feel I should share that much info.

[Loppfessor]

^ I see where you are going with this but I don't think you read the entire thread. When I say that I don't think I did anything that bad I mean that it's not like I ever hit, or verbally abused any of them. I never killed anyone's pet or slept with their best friend. The point is that I don't think I've done anything that would justify some kind of blood vendetta.

Now having said that I have acknowledged the shady things that I have done and expressed my sincere remorse for them. So my apologies have been far from half assed.