As incredible an album as Exile On Main St. is...

[mickill]

...I believe that Sticky Fingers is still a much tighter package.

[Lo_Lyfe]

tighter package.

lol

[abcdefz]

Oh, my.

You know what sucked about that album design? I had to put the plastic from a shirt color into the outer sleeve because that zipper would gouge whatever album it got trapped against. Lame.(n)

[mickill]

Yeah, it was hardly the smartest design. At least the banana on the VU album couldn't hurt your other records. My vinyl copy of Sticky Fingers is sort of falling apart, anyway. It's hard to find an original pressing in decent condition at a fair price, though.

[abcdefz]

Actually, the banana did try to hurt my other albums. I had to sit it down and give it a good talking-to.

[Drederick Tatum]

your mom's a much tighter package!

[mickill]

Well, she does Tae Bo.

[Drederick Tatum]

anyway, I'm not too sure what the frame of this thread is. I assumed it was about the music, but then a-z starts crying about the impracticalities of art so I dunno anymore...

[saz]

yeah, sticky fingers is better, although gram parsons was pretty much responsible for a lot of exile...ditto taylor and sticky fingers

[Drederick Tatum]

although gram parsons was pretty much responsible for a lot of exile...ditto taylor and sticky fingers

what?! nah brah.

[saz]

ah, yeah

do your homework

[Drederick Tatum]

I'd agree that Parsons was an INFLUENCE on both Stickey Fingers and Exile..., and of course Taylor is going to have some input. but to say that they're "pretty much responsible" for large parts of each album is absurd.

go easy on the patronising tone too, it's just going to get you burnt.

[Next of Kin]

Taylor only got credits on one track from exile + playing bass ?!!! on 3 tracks.

[Documad]

I read a book on Parsons recently, and it said that he was thrown out of Keith's house and didn't really contribute to Exile. I have no idea what's true and what's not, but after years of listening to him and the Stones off an on, I have concluded that Parsons is overrated. He's okay, but like all musicians who died young, his reputation looms much larger than the actual music supports.

And I heard that it was all about Jimmy Miller. ;)

I had to keep the Sticky Fingers album out of alphabetical order, in the front of my whole collection, so that it dug into the side of the bookcase instead of into another album. I couldn't leave it alone, so all my Stones albums had to go up front, which was kind of appropriate given what a huge fan I was at one time.

[Drederick Tatum]

take the ten best tracks off Exile... and you have a better album than Sticky Fingers.

include the other eight and I think it's still better.

as far as Sticky Fingers being tighter, I think it's a slightly unfair comparision. one's a double album with nearly twice the amount of songs as the other.

meh, both are awesome and whenever I listen to either I swear it's the superior of the two.

[mickill]

I don't know if I'd give quite that much credit to Parsons or Taylor on Sticky Fingers, though. I don't hear any influence from Parsons in about 80% of the songs on Sticky Fingers. And I think that Taylor was absolutely integeral to maybe about 5 songs at the most.

As far as Exile goes, I don't think Parsons was even there for most of the sessions. That's not to say that the band weren't influenced by or borrowing from him or anything. But I'm pretty sure his direct contributions to Exile were virtually nil.

If you did take the 10 best tracks off of Exile, you'd end up with very little variance. The songs on Sticky Fingers - even just between Can't You Hear Me Knocking, Dead Flowers and Moonlight Mile alone - encompass a wider scope of styles/creativity than most of the songs on Exile. They're not all masterpieces, but no two songs overlap, whereas songs on Exile, like Happy and All Down The Line, tread very similar ground. And a lot of the more experimental moments on Exile aren't as interesting.

I still think Exile is an excellent album, though. Probably more consistent than Sticky. It just offers less variance.

[abcdefz]

Beggar's Banquet is my favorite.

[mickill]

Well, it's an awesome album. I can't really argue with that.

Salt Of The Earth isn't really my thing, though.

[abcdefz]

Well, catch me on a different day and I might go with Sticky Fingers. It's pretty much between those two.

Our band used to cover "Can't You Hear Me Knocking," btw. Except our drummer sang that one.

[Documad]

I would never pick Sticky Fingers over Exile. There are times when I would pick Beggar's Banquet and even the live album over Sticky Fingers. Even Tattoo You and Emotional Rescue. But that's more about me actually remembering them when they were released -- the last time I was excited about new Stones' LPs.

My brother played me Sticky Fingers on a really good stereo a while ago though and I heard instruments I'd never heard before. You couldn't do that with Exile.

I don't love any one Stones album completely.

[mickill]

I could see picking Beggars Banquet and Exile over Sticky Fingers. I can even to some degree see why you'd pick Tattoo You over it...possibly. But I don't understand how you'd pick Emotional Rescue over it.

I think Some Girls is a little better than Tattoo You, though. And I think Between The Buttons is better than both.

[Documad]

If I'm keeping my feelings out of it, the order would be different. But I'm not keeping my feelings out of it.

Emotional Rescue has my favorite Keith song, and it's the first Stones album I bought upon release. I will defend other individual songs on that sucker, but mostly I like that Mick was trying to be more stripped down and fit in with more current music but he did it pretty badly and it's fun.

Tattoo You was also my first tour. You had to buy tickets via lottery and you needed a money order. I made my dad drive me to a place where I could buy my first money order and I sent away for tickets and didn't get any and got my money order back. Then I bought my ticket from the local high school scalper. (He's a career Army guy now -- as I found out at the 20 year reunion. He's still pretty cool.) That was money well spent and my favorite concert before college.

The Stones didn't come back for a long time and when they did it was to our shitty domed stadium.

[Documad]

I also meant to say yesterday that Mick and Keith are NOTORIOUS for not giving proper credit to people who played and/or co-wrote songs so there are lots of rumors and many are not reliable.

[Drederick Tatum]

If you did take the 10 best tracks off of Exile, you'd end up with very little variance....They're not all masterpieces, but no two songs overlap, whereas songs on Exile, like Happy and All Down The Line, tread very similar ground. And a lot of the more experimental moments on Exile aren't as interesting.

Well, it sounds like we're gonna have to pick the best 10 tracks off Exile...

and in terms of variance, I think you can pair up some songs on Sticky Fingers. Sister Morphine + Moonlight Mile, Brown Sugar + Bitch, Dead Flowers + Wild Horses.

[mickill]

What? No. I'd give you Bitch + Brown Sugar and a half mark for Wild Horses + Dead Flowers for both being hick tunes, but Sister Morphine + Moonlight Mile is a huge stretch. They sound nothing alike, man.

I'll have to think about my ten best off of Exile list, though.

[Drederick Tatum]

I dunno, both songs have a pretty weary tone and build to somewhat of a climax and then cool down from that. it's not all about the sound.

[saz]

I'd agree that Parsons was an INFLUENCE on both Stickey Fingers and Exile..., and of course Taylor is going to have some input. but to say that they're "pretty much responsible" for large parts of each album is absurd.

parsons was a songwriting genius and country/rock music visionary, his legacy is completely intact and unquestionable. he and richards were inseperable for a long time and it really pissed jagger off and made him jealous. they wrote many of the songs on the album together, then developed the songs with bill, mick t, stu, bobby keys et al. jagger was placed in a really awkward position with keith and gram ruling the roast - jagger had never felt so threatened since brian jones.

sticky fingers: by 1970, richards was in the full throngs of heroin abuse with anita pallenberg. he missed key recording sessions due to his brutal habit: he doesn't even play on 'sway' and 'moonlight mile'. in addition, it's well known that 'can't you hear me knocking', 'sway' and 'moonlight mile' were arranged by taylor, with jagger penning the lyrics. richards had nothing to do with them. ditto 'sister morphine': it was initially written by jagger and marianne faithful, and then developed into the song it became by the entire band (ry cooder, wyman, nietzshe and/or stu and watts - which was the case with the majority of the stones songs from the jones/taylor era).


go easy on the patronising tone too, it's just going to get you burnt.

wasn't intending to be patronizing, but was rather surprised by the questioning.

[mickill]

I'm pretty sure Keith had a few of the ideas for Moonlight Mile recorded on his own before Taylor finished what he had started. And regardless, Jagger still made plenty of contributions in Keith's absence.


Ok, I've narrowed my 10 best off Exile down to:

Tumbling Dice
Soul Survivor

Rocks Off
All Down The Line
Happy

Sweet Virginia
Torn & Frayed
Let It Loose
Shine A Light
Sweet Black Angel

Not in order or anything, but grouped the way that they sorta tread the same ground a few times over.

[Lo_Lyfe]

rip this joint, man. come on.

[saz]

I also meant to say yesterday that Mick and Keith are NOTORIOUS for not giving proper credit to people who played and/or co-wrote songs so there are lots of rumors and many are not reliable.

that's just the tip of the iceberg, ie nanker-phelge

I'm pretty sure Keith had a few of the ideas for Moonlight Mile recorded on his own before Taylor finished what he had started. And regardless, Jagger still made plenty of contributions in Keith's absence.

richards had nothing to do with 'moonlight'. but yep, 'sticky finger's is predominantly a jagger/taylor album, but again wyman, hopkins, stu & co. shaped the songs.

[Drederick Tatum]

I think what it essentially comes down to is who's biography, website or whatever you choose to believe.

[Drederick Tatum]

I'm pretty sure Keith had a few of the ideas for Moonlight Mile recorded on his own before Taylor finished what he had started. And regardless, Jagger still made plenty of contributions in Keith's absence.


Ok, I've narrowed my 10 best off Exile down to:

Tumbling Dice
Soul Survivor

Rocks Off
All Down The Line
Happy

Sweet Virginia
Torn & Frayed
Let It Loose
Shine A Light
Sweet Black Angel

Not in order or anything, but grouped the way that they sorta tread the same ground a few times over.

it would seem that last group sorta all tread the same ground in the same way that Sister Morphine and Moonlight Mile do.

Rocks Off
Rip This Joint
Casino Boogie. even though I have no idea what they're on about.
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
Torn and Frayed
Loving Cup
Happy
Let It Loose
All Down The Line

[Auton]

it's not sticky fingers or exile on main st., sure... but between the buttons and even emotional rescue get mentioned, and let it bleed doesn't? come on!

and i insist to this day that monkey man is an incredible, criminally overlooked song.

[Drederick Tatum]

I remain of the opinion that apart from Gimme Shelter and You Can't Always Get What You Want, the 3 other notable tracks off Let It Bleed can be found in superior form on Get Yer Ya Ya's Out.

[Auton]

hahaha ouch. fair enough, man

[Drederick Tatum]

really though, as good as the album versions of Midnight Rambler and Live With Me are, the live versions are fire.

do you not agree?

[Auton]

no no no, i agree,(that version of live with me actually being one of my very favorite stones tracks) i just think let it bleed is still pretty darn good, even if it is kind of a mixed bag

[Documad]

I really thought someone had mentioned Let It Bleed, but it was Beggar's Banquet that got mentioned. Let It Bleed was a favorite of mine for ages and ages.

[mickill]

it would seem that last group sorta all tread the same ground in the same way that Sister Morphine and Moonlight Mile do.
Fine, you win.

it's not sticky fingers or exile on main st., sure... but between the buttons and even emotional rescue get mentioned, and let it bleed doesn't? come on!

and i insist to this day that monkey man is an incredible, criminally overlooked song.
It kinda fell out of my top 5 a little while back. I actually think it's a bit overrated now.

Gimme Shelter is easily one of their 3 best songs ever, sure. But the rest of the album doesn't quite consist of any real career highlights. Partly because, as brother Tatum already mentioned, the best songs appear in better form elsewhere.

Also, I'd be able to appreciate them not using the single version of Honky Tonk Women had there been more than a total of 9 tracks on the album to make up for it. It's a notable weakness. And I'm still not really a fan of Monkey Man.

Lastly, I know it's considered a classic tune, but I don't really care that much for You Can't Always Get What You Want. The Stones had done "epic" much better in the past without resorting to children's choirs and simplistic themes.

I think it's a good album, just nothing incredible. In other words, remove Gimme Shelter and replace it with another Monkey Man and you have a pretty boring album, doggie.

[abcdefz]

Pick one: Aftermath or Between the Buttons.

Just curious.

[mickill]

UK or US versions? I'd probably still go with Between The Buttons either way.

[abcdefz]

...what's different on the UK version of Aftermath?

[mickill]

Most notably, the absence of Paint It Black and the addition of a few other tracks.

[mickill]

US version of Aftermath:

1. Paint It Black
2. Stupid Girl
3. Lady Jane
4. Under My Thumb
5. Doncha Bother Me
6. Think
7. Flight 505
8. High and Dry
9. It's Not Easy
10. I Am Waiting
11. Going Home

UK version:

1. Mother's Little Helper
2. Stupid Girl
3. Lady Jane
4. Under My Thumb
5. Doncha Bother Me
6. Goin' Home
7. Flight 505
8. High And Dry
9. Out Of Time
10. It's Not Easy
11. I Am Waiting
12. Take It Or Leave It
13. Think
14. What To Do

I prefer the US version. It's a little more streamlined. And Paint It Black vs. Mother's Little Helper? No question there.

[Drederick Tatum]

Fine, you win.


YUSS!

[yeahwho]

It is an interesting thing about the Rolling Stones, all of the late Sixties and early Seventies is defined by that boozy bluesy ballsy big brass in your face sound. The Rolling Stones just nailed it. I do agree with Monkey Man being criminally under-rated, if it were on "Sticky Fingers" say instead of "I Got the Blues" the album would of been a TKO wallop instead of just one of the most magnificent records ever made. :D

That horn section on "Bitch" is genius.

Yeah when you call my name
I salivate like a pavlov dog
Yeah when you lay me out
My heart is beating louder than a big bass drum, alright

If you combine the best off of Stcky Fingers, Let it Bleed and Exile it is next to impossible to find any other band since the inception of Rock and Roll with that many great songs. A Treasure!

[saz]

I think what it essentially comes down to is who's biography, website or whatever you choose to believe.

brian jones, bill wyman, ry cooder, mick taylor, marianne faithful, ian stewart, dr. john, billy preston. all ripped off.


It is an interesting thing about the Rolling Stones, all of the late Sixties and early Seventies is defined by that boozy bluesy ballsy big brass in your face sound. The Rolling Stones just nailed it.


i used to think the same thing, but then i discovered humble pie, who are far superior