i'm literally getting sick of bush's presidency

[Bob]

everytime he's on TV giving a speech it really honestly sounds like a first grader giving a book report or something, i can't stand it anymore, it raises my blood pressure when he talks. is it 2008 yet? jesus

[kaiser soze]

I love how he's trying to get facist on us...

The bastard has broken our country

[QueenAdrock]

Jon Stewart was talking about this, and how when he speaks he acts like WE'RE the dumb ones. He said "No man who takes you seriously is going to explain stuff to you the way he does. He'll respond to 'Why are we in a war in Iraq?' with 'There's bad people in the world. We need to rid the world of evil people,' like he expects the questioner to then start drooling and clapping his hands and saying 'THANKS! Daah, we hate bad people. Thanks for being pres-ee-dent!' "

Hearing him talk hurts my brain. He seriously does sound like an idiot when he talks. And he has no control of his emotions, which every good leader SHOULD be able to do. Leaders should be able to meet with other leaders, put on a poker face, talk, maybe even banter, but be IN CONTROL at all times. Calm, cool, collected. This is a man who retorted "You forgot Poland!" after being attacked by Kerry, and ended up being made a fool of. Sigh.

Warner/Richardson '08 baby

[QueenAdrock]

And you know what else bothers me? These dumb rednecks who say that they love Bush because he's an "average guy." You don't want an "average guy" running the country. "Average guys" are the ones who will eat stuff you pick up off the floor for a dollar. You don't want people like that running the country. You want someone insightful, bright, and much, MUCH more intelligent than "the average guy" to run the country. I don't see why people don't get that.

[kaiser soze]

no

dumb people should rule the world

[Bob]

And you know what else bothers me? These dumb rednecks who say that they love Bush because he's an "average guy." You don't want an "average guy" running the country. "Average guys" are the ones who will eat stuff you pick up off the floor for a dollar. You don't want people like that running the country. You want someone insightful, bright, and much, MUCH more intelligent than "the average guy" to run the country. I don't see why people don't get that.

i think that was an old jon stewart bit too, actually :)

it's just insulting to me that this guy's the president. i mean, unless there's something going on in that silly little head of his that his words don't show, this guy just does not seem like a president to me. he's not even a pretty face. i don't know what he's doing there. i don't know why he was elected twice.

a friend of mine who's a bush (administration) supporter even said that he doesn't think bush himself is very good as a president, but it's ok because he has his cabinet and his advisors that are really making the decisions. i don't understand that. what the fuck do we need bush for then? why is he even there at all? that's straight up insulting to me, that the guy at the head of the state isn't even doing anything. i mean, there's only been 43 (or was it 42? or 44? i forget, and i'm a poli sci major, that's bad) people in the history of the united states who have been president, and now we've got one that can't even do the job? he's just a...i don't even know what he is. he repulses me.

he seems like he'd be a funny guy to drink with maybe, but that's it. he'd be a pretty LOL guy if he were just some dude who went on television now and then and said things, but no, he's the president, and that's terrifying as far as what it says about the american people.

[Bob]

and for me, it's not even about his policies anymore (which i also don't like, but i'm pissed off about something else now). i just don't even respect the guy as a holder of authority. unless he just unfailingly comes off as stupider than he actually is on TV and interviews every time he's on (unlikely, but not impossible, i'll admit), this is just not a guy who should be where he is. and yet, there he is. i don't understand how he fits into the GOP's plan. he's just a jerk.

compare him to say, reagan. i didn't like reagan's policies either (well, in retrospect, i was too young to care about them at the time), but at least you could respect the guy as a leader. if you didn't like his policies, at least you knew who not to like. it's all out the window with bush, though. it's some billy madison shit, i swear

[abcdefz]

And you know what else bothers me? These dumb rednecks who say that they love Bush because he's an "average guy." You don't want an "average guy" running the country. "Average guys" are the ones who will eat stuff you pick up off the floor for a dollar. You don't want people like that running the country. You want someone insightful, bright, and much, MUCH more intelligent than "the average guy" to run the country. I don't see why people don't get that.



That kind of reminds me of how I was appalled to find that, in surveys, most Americans feel very, very warm and reassured to consider themselves "average." My initial reaction to being called "average" is that it's kind of derogatory at worst, damned-by-faint-praise at best. Most folks here perceive it as a compliment.

Your "average" American is very, very threatened by intellectualism. It's considered uppity and suspect: if a man uses serious intelligence, it's gay; if a woman does, she's a bitch.

That's part of what's scary as hell about democracy. I don't want to be governed by mass opinion. Mass opinion scares the hell out of me. Mass opinion elects President Bush, demands more Will Farrel movies, and keeps Jessica Simpson and Paris Hilton, um, employed.

We have met the employers, and they are us, etc. Same as the old boss: our base instincts.

[DroppinScience]

Man, I've been thinking that for 5 years now. Can he just leave, or something? And it really feels like it's coming from both sides. Even the Republicans en masse are embarrassed by him (whether they're moderates or conservatives).

Unless something out of the blue happens, January 20, 2009 is when we're (hopefully) done with this nightmare.

[abcdefz]

Who do we think is running in 2008? McCain vs. Gore?

I have a feeling Hillary will step aside and accept a VP nomination. Maybe.

[DroppinScience]

i mean, there's only been 43 (or was it 42? or 44? i forget, and i'm a poli sci major, that's bad) people in the history of the united states who have been president

There have been 43 Presidents, but only 42 guys have actually been the President (Grover Cleveland was the 22nd AND 24th President).

[abcdefz]

There have been 43 Presidents, but only 42 guys have actually been the President (Grover Cleveland was the 22nd AND 24th President).



Shouldn't President Ford have an asterisk or something? People complain about Bush Jr., but nobody ever elected Ford into the White House in any capacity.

[DroppinScience]

Shouldn't President Ford have an asterisk or something? People complain about Bush Jr., but nobody ever elected Ford into the White House in any capacity.

Not only that, but he was never even elected Vice-President anyways. He was the luckiest free-loader ever. (y)

P.S. - George W. Bush should've had Gerald Ford status. Or someone else who's Presidency only lasted a month or two.

[QueenAdrock]

Who do we think is running in 2008? McCain vs. Gore?

I have a feeling Hillary will step aside and accept a VP nomination. Maybe.


I'm lookin' at Warner/Richardson, like I stated before.

Warner = governor, southern, democratic, moderate
Richardson = also more moderate, bordering swing states, his ethnicity may swing the latino vote which is traditionally down the center

If the Democrats didn't win, I'd be happy with McCain. He's overall a good guy and I like him.

[abcdefz]

Not only that, but he was never even elected Vice-President anyways. He was the luckiest free-loader ever. (y)



That's what I meant. He was never on a presidential ticket, period.

[DroppinScience]

That's what I meant. He was never on a presidential ticket, period.

He was for Election 1976, but didn't win. But I hear ya.

[synch]

"Think about how stupid the average person is; now realise half of them are dumber than that." -- George Carlin

[QueenAdrock]

(y)

Oh god, it's true. :(

[abcdefz]

He was for Election 1976, but didn't win.



*embarassed*

You're right. Geez. I still can't think of him as ever having been a candidate. My bad.

[abcdefz]

"Think about how stupid the average person is; now realise half of them are dumber than that." -- George Carlin


Oh, Lord. Carlin said something perceptive. (!)

[synch]

Why the hatin'?

I like Carlin :(

[abcdefz]

I shouldn't have been negative. Sorry.

[synch]

:D no seriously man, you don't like Carlin?

I feel he's showing his age but most of his material is classic.

[abcdefz]

He's pretty likable in a lot of ways. (y)

[EN[i]GMA]

What repulses me more than Bush himself is that people like and vote for Bush, and those like him.

I under Bush is an ignorant asshole. He probably can't help it. I'm sure he really believes in what he says, and he just doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

It's the people who should know better, the voters that piss me off. We fucking re-elected this guy! I could see us getting taken once, but to let him do it to us twice? The fuck?

It angers me to even think about it how someone could go to the polls, vote and think "I made a great choice."

Sickening.

[abcdefz]

I worked for a man who is/was so much like I perceive President Bush to be that it's kind of scary. At least, I think I recognize the type:

Despite a certain amount of success in his field, he's not at all bright, and he's got a chip on his shoulder about that and sort of distrusts anyone who's "too" smart;

Paradoxically, he's very self-confident because he doesn't have enough imagination to truly doubt himself or his decisions;

He also doesn't have enough imagination to really feel shame, so he blows off mistakes so blithely that he doesn't really learn anything;

He's got a very hard time imagining very far into the future, and an unshakable knowledge that the bad stuff will never really touch him, no matter what.

Scary guy for a leader.

[Bob]

I worked for a man who is/was so much like I perceive President Bush to be that it's kind of scary. At least, I think I recognize the type:

Despite a certain amount of success in his field, he's not at all bright, and he's got a chip on his shoulder about that and sort of distrusts anyone who's "too" smart;

Paradoxically, he's very self-confident because he doesn't have enough imagination to truly doubt himself or his decisions;

He also doesn't have enough imagination to really feel shame, so he blows off mistakes so blithely that he doesn't really learn anything;

He's got a very hard time imagining very far into the future, and an unshakable knowledge that the bad stuff will never really touch him, no matter what.

Scary guy for a leader.

who's he related to?

and that makes me think of something else. suppose bush weren't his father's son. suppose he were 100% exactly the same person, with the same experiences and personality and leadership qualities and face and voice and not one single thing different about him, except that he came from a different family. would he still have been elected? would he even have been considered?

[Bob]

Look at the bright side. We could have had Al Gore as a sitting president after 911!!

yeah, that would have been a little brighter i guess

[QueenAdrock]

Look at the bright side. We could have had Al Gore as a sitting president after 911!! The guy's a winey baby and hypocryte. Environment, my-ass: the guy still flies around in a private jet. It's the Democratic party's fault for putting up piss-poor candidates.

It will be Hillary vs. Giuliani for '08. She'll beat Gore and Giuliani will beat Mcain for the nominations. You heard it here first.


Yeah man! Much more so of a hypocrite than Bush, who said that he was going to get Bin Laden "dead or alive" and then not a year later said "he didn't know where he was, he just wasn't that important." Fuck Gore! :rolleyes:

Hillary won't get the nomination. Giuliani has a chance to, but Hillary won't get it. Hillary is the Howard Dean of '08 - everyone thinks she's a shoo-in but it won't happen.

[skra75]

Last I heard, Bears are wearing funny hats too Bro.

[Bob]

He never said WHEN we'd get Bin Laden. But if you know how to find him, you need to join the military. Everyone's an armchar critic as if they could do better. Being president is a tough job, especially so in trying times. But what have YOU done for our country lately?

Americans have never been satisfied with sitting presidents. Ever. It's our fundamental right to bitch & complain, regardless of how much freedom we enjoy, how low unemployment is, how strong our economy is. If you closed your eyes & turned off the TV for 5 years, you would not know who is president nor would your life change in any tangible way from one president to the next. So it's all in your head- Bush is your scapegoat for the truth that your lives are disatisfying.

Besides, when's the last time any of you lobbied for a Democrat running for office? All bark and no bite?

oh, well i'm convinced then, bush isn't a bad president because
a: i'm not in the military
b: being president is hard
c: all presidents suck
d: my life sucks
e: i've never lobbied for a democrat

am i reading you right? that's why bush isn't a bad president? god, why didn't i think of that. well, i'm content, later guys

[DroppinScience]

Look at the bright side. We could have had Al Gore as a sitting president after 911!! The guy's a winey baby and hypocryte. Environment, my-ass: the guy still flies around in a private jet. It's the Democratic party's fault for putting up piss-poor candidates.

It will be Hillary vs. Giuliani for '08. She'll beat Gore and Giuliani will beat Mcain for the nominations. You heard it here first.

Yeah, man. If Gore was the President, he'd be making those terrorists breath CLEAN air! Jeez, what kind of Commander-in-Chief is that?

[Schmeltz]

oh, well i'm convinced then, bush isn't a bad president because
a: i'm not in the military
b: being president is hard
c: all presidents suck
d: my life sucks
e: i've never lobbied for a democrat

am i reading you right? that's why bush isn't a bad president? god, why didn't i think of that. well, i'm content, later guys


(y)

[yeahwho]

Al Gore and John Kerry must really be stinging. He cannot even pronounce words correctly. How people got duped into this I do not know, I voted for the other guy(s) and can only wait around till the 2008 election to once again try and do the right thing.

Al Gore will run again, I'm sure of that. He has too much to prove to himself and his followers. I'll take intelligent boredom anyday over moronic mayhem.

[Dr Deaf]

That kind of reminds me of how I was appalled to find that, in surveys, most Americans feel very, very warm and reassured to consider themselves "average." My initial reaction to being called "average" is that it's kind of derogatory at worst, damned-by-faint-praise at best. Most folks here perceive it as a compliment.

Your "average" American is very, very threatened by intellectualism. It's considered uppity and suspect: if a man uses serious intelligence, it's gay; if a woman does, she's a bitch.

That's part of what's scary as hell about democracy. I don't want to be governed by mass opinion. Mass opinion scares the hell out of me. Mass opinion elects President Bush, demands more Will Farrel movies, and keeps Jessica Simpson and Paris Hilton, um, employed.

We have met the employers, and they are us, etc. Same as the old boss: our base instincts.

great fucking post sir. (y)

if GW went back to school right now, he'd be placed in an SLD class. he has mulitple learning disabilities, ADD, ADHD and dyslexia to name a few.

being an idiot and leader of the free world is one thing. having a maniac depressive lunatic who suffers from pre-senile dementia at the helm is a whole other can o' worms.

he is so out of touch he doesn't even realize what a mess he's created. his panel of advisors tell him exactly what he wants to hear, to avoid upsetting him. he has become, comfortably numb.

[Bob]

great fucking post sir. (y)

if GW went back to school right now, he'd be placed in an SLD class. he has mulitple learning disabilities, ADD, ADHD and dyslexia to name a few.

being an idiot and leader of the free world is one thing. having a maniac depressive lunatic who suffers from pre-senile dementia at the helm is a whole other can o' worms.

he is so out of touch he doesn't even realize what a mess he's created. his panel of advisors tell him exactly what he wants to hear, to avoid upsetting him. he has become, comfortably numb.

he's like mr. burns, or something.

i kinda wanna discuss something i said earlier:

and that makes me think of something else. suppose bush weren't his father's son. suppose he were 100% exactly the same person, with the same experiences and personality and leadership qualities and face and voice and not one single thing different about him, except that he came from a different family. would he still have been elected? would he even have been considered?

if you brought this up before the election(s) people would say "oh, that's not true, he's qualified on his own" etc etc, but i've never bothered to pose it to a bush supporter recently (not that they're easy to find anymore). he has absolutely nothing going for him that would make him electable except for his heritage. great, i just discovered something else about him that pisses me off :(

the most common bush-defense you hear these days seems to be "well it would have been worse if gore/kerry was president!" which of course, you can't technically disprove, ever. can't really prove it though, either.

[Dr Deaf]

he's like mr. burns, or something.

i kinda wanna discuss something i said earlier:



if you brought this up before the election(s) people would say "oh, that's not true, he's qualified on his own" etc etc, but i've never bothered to pose it to a bush supporter recently (not that they're easy to find anymore). he has absolutely nothing going for him that would make him electable except for his heritage. great, i just discovered something else about him that pisses me off :(

his whole life has been a direct result of his ancestory. from being accepted at yale, to being admited into the skull and bones fraternity, landing a spot at <cough> texas national guard instead of being deployed to 'nam, the failed abrusto oil venture, becoming governor of texas, etc were all made possible by his father and the bush dynasty.



JEB BUSH IN 2012?

[Dr Deaf]

i realize this has probably been posted here before whole or in part.


George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:

Ran for congress and lost.

Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.

Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.

With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.

Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.

Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president:

Attacked and took over two countries.

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.

Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)

Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).

Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References:

At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.

Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.

[Justin]

The truth is we have to blame the people, not bush. We have alot of stupid people living here. They were the ones that voted him in.

[The Notorious LOL]

If the Democrats didn't win, I'd be happy with McCain. He's overall a good guy and I like him.



McCain sucks. didnt he say some shit publicly about how he "hates gooks"?

[Dr Deaf]

The truth is we have to blame the people, not bush. We have alot of stupid people living here. They were the ones that voted him in.


both elections were stolen. check the exit polls.

[QueenAdrock]

He never said WHEN we'd get Bin Laden. But if you know how to find him, you need to join the military. Everyone's an armchar critic as if they could do better. Being president is a tough job, especially so in trying times. But what have YOU done for our country lately?

No, no. You're missing the main part of that last statement. HE SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE BIN LADEN WAS, NOR DID HE CARE. What a slap in the face to the 3,000 people who died, we don't give one shit about the man who murdered you. Maybe that's why they're critical. Granted, the presidency is hard, but I'm pretty sure a 4-year-old can figure out that if someone kills 3,000 people, you do what's in your power to stop that from happening again by capturing the murderer. How can you not do that? And how can anyone call him a good president when he said he didn't give a shit about Bin Laden? THAT'S JUST WRONG.

He says he cares about Bin Laden now, and wow, wouldn't you know it, it's an election year. Last time he cared about Bin Laden was in 2004 - oh, hey! What a coincidence. (n)

Besides, when's the last time any of you lobbied for a Democrat running for office? All bark and no bite?

I'm helping with the O'Malley campaign in Maryland, and I also plan to help get Cardin elected to senate here. I also ran the polls for the 2004 election, handed out information for Kerry, did voter registration, and worked for Kerry headquarters. I went to meetups, rallies, demonstrations, houseparties, all to figure out how to get the word out about my candidate. I participated in debates for Kerry. I donated money and attended fundraisers.

I guess that's all bark though. Way to make assumptions there. :rolleyes:

[DroppinScience]

both elections were stolen. check the exit polls.

No matter the true results of either election, there is little to no accountability for Bush's actions when it comes to all his political appointees and decision making, etc.

[QueenAdrock]

What are you talking about? His non-experienced appointees have done a heckuva job.

[Libby]

I herd george jr. went to Hahvad, pahformed at an astoundin C average, and every business he took paht in thereafta turned to sh*t. Now, I'm not wicked smaht or anythin but I'm wonderin how his Pa felt about shellin' out that kind of $ on an 'average' college education?

Duh.

[D_Raay]

oh, well i'm convinced then, bush isn't a bad president because
a: i'm not in the military
b: being president is hard
c: all presidents suck
d: my life sucks
e: i've never lobbied for a democrat

am i reading you right? that's why bush isn't a bad president? god, why didn't i think of that. well, i'm content, later guys
Hehe that's funny stuff bob.

[Frenchbgirl]

it feels so good to read all this.....:) and to know that bush isn't that liked by american people (coz it's pretty much what we're told in france...)

[chrisd]

i like sarkozy

[Frenchbgirl]

i like sarkozy

oh no....i have to hate you now...(n)

[chrisd]

dönt hätt se pläer, hätt se gäm

[chrisd]

by se wä, i like se avatàr, its very mösterd on rhye

[chrisd]

bush is funny

[Bob]

chrisd, post less please

[Linu]

Achtung!!

[D_Raay]

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/42339/

[yeahwho]

Yes there is a lot to not like about this administration, giving up liberty in the name of fighting terror is the newest twist, this is one of the scariest times for the U.S. ever. I hope everybody has passports.

Here is a good summary of how this torture bill IS FUCKED from the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/25/AR2006092501514.html)

Which prompted Andrew Sullivan (http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/) (a pro-war pro-bushy fag of all people) to state,

How do I put this in words as clearly as possible. If the U.S. government decides, for reasons of its own, that you are an "illegal enemy combatant," i.e. that you are someone who

"has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States,"

they can detain you without charges indefinitely, granting you no legal recourse except to a military tribunal, and, under the proposed bill, "disappear" and torture you. This is not just restricted to aliens or foreigners, but applies to U.S. citizens as well. It can happen anywhere in the U.S. at any time. We are all at potential risk.

All I know is that al Qaeda is winning battles every week now. And they are winning them because their aim of gutting Western liberty is shared by the president of the United States. The fact that we are finding this latest, chilling stuff out now - while this horrifying bill is being rushed into law to help rescue some midterms - is beyond belief. It must be stopped, filibustered, prevented. And anyone who cares about basic constitutional freedom - conservatives above all - should be in the forefront of stopping it.

Even us lefty Bush hating hip hop Beastie fans have bits and pieces of this torture debacle hidden in the background of other topics. I should of started a thread all on it's own. This shit is the last straw on any leeway I give a friend of Bush.

Water Boarding 101 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeDGIqVvaLY&eurl)

[BGirl]

take that ^ and the fact that the NIE cited "leftist" and "anti-globalization" groups as potential terror threats (while not even mentioning right wing terrorists in the US like the people who bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors) and it adds up to scary times indeed (n)