Kingdom Come

[mickill]

I'm sure the whole album's about to leak any minute now, but here's another song off of it. I'm not crazy about it, but it's okaaaay, I guess. Actually, it's kinda boring by Jay-Z standards.

Lost Ones (http://www.spinemagazine.com/music/october/jayz/lostones.mp3)

[Mr Films]

yeah, it's aight. it's got a sort of Reasonable Doubt vibe going.....sort of.

truthfully, I'm rarely impressed by the production on Jay's tracks. He might be one of the only mc's I like solely because of his flow.

[Mr Films]

people will disagree, but I'd fucking love to hear a Jay and Kanye collab record. Every track produced by Kanye and Jay just let's him go fucking nuts.

[mickill]

Jay's rhymed over some of the best beats ever, in my opinion. I agree that the production has always been secondary to his vocals, though.

Dre and Jay were supposedly going to do this entire album together.

[adam_f]

It's okay. To be honest, I don't really care about the new album. I was more excited for the new Outkast to hear Andre rap again. Jay never really left.

[Mr Films]

It's okay. To be honest, I don't really care about the new album. I was more excited for the new Outkast to hear Andre rap again. Jay never really left.

well let's hope Kingdom Come actually lives up to its hype.

[Mr Films]

I'll most likely be underwhelmed by this album, simply because anything on it will be hard pressed to match 99 Problems.

I am however interested in what Chris Martin's hip hop production sounds like.

[roosta]

I'll most likely be underwhelmed by this album, simply because anything on it will be hard pressed to match 99 Problems.

I am however interested in what Chris Martin's hip hop production sounds like.

what i heard was his production consists simply of sending some strings. the rest probably built by someone else.

[roosta]

btw, i really like this song.

[abcdefz]

Gosh help us; I thought there was actually a new Kingdom Come (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:z95s8q9tbtn4) album coming out.

[Rip Round'n Roc]

lost ones is produced by dr dre

[cubsfirstplace]

i like the other 2 song a lot more

[g-mile7]

yeah, it's aight. it's got a sort of Reasonable Doubt vibe going.....sort of.

truthfully, I'm rarely impressed by the production on Jay's tracks. He might be one of the only mc's I like solely because of his flow.
Regrets part 2...its a good track, beat is perfect 4 the concept good to see the side of Hov that is only seen bout one song per CD

[mickill]

Evidently, this is the album cover (http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Come-Jay-Z/dp/B000JJSRUM/sr=8-11/qid=1162422791/ref=pd_bbs_sr_11/103-2378976-4819815?ie=UTF8&s=music)

[ggirlballa]

looks pissed

[mickill]

I think he's only ever really had two truly good album covers: Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint.

[Mr Films]

I like the Black Album cover.

[mickill]

I do too. But the other two are iconic. The rest of his covers look like g-mile's uncle could have taken them. That's not a shot at g-mile or anything. I'm just saying that Jay's got a bigger budget to work with. He's paying people to be creative. I think he needs to hire a new art director or photographer or something. At least he's added a different color to his pallet with the new album. Unless it's a fake.

[g-mile7]

I do too. But the other two are iconic. The rest of his covers look like g-mile's uncle could have taken them. That's not a shot at g-mile or anything. I'm just saying that Jay's got a bigger budget to work with.
Im more suprised you remember my Uncle does photography...its been almost a year now since I mentioned that...Jigga do look piss though

[mickill]

So apparently, they decided that the 3D holographic cover (http://therapup.blogspot.com/2006/11/jay-z-kingdom-come-track-list.html) would be a good way to go.

Tracklist:

Disc 1
01. The Prelude
02. Oh My God
03. Kingdom Come
04. Show Me What You Got
05. Lost One
06. Do U Wanna Ride
07. 30 Something
08. I Made It
09. Anything
10. Hollywood
11. Trouble
12. Dig A Hole
13. Minority Report
14. Beach Chair

Disc 2
01. Politics As Usual
02. Can’t Knock The Hustle
03. Can I Live

[Mr Films]

lol @ a song called "Minority Report"

[mickill]

What about Beach Chair? That shit sounds like a club banger.

Actually, I think that's the Chris Martin Paltrow track.

[Mr Films]

What about Beach Chair? That shit sounds like a club banger.

Actually, I think that's the Chris Martin Paltrow track.

oh shit, didn't even notice that.

that's actually fucking hilarious.

YOYOYO NEW HOV TRACK "TABLE LAMP"

JUST BLAAAAAAZE!

[The Notorious LOL]

why does disc 2 even exist?



TABLE LAMP!!!!!!!!! WHOOOOO KIDDDDDD! *gunshots*

[g-mile7]

why does disc 2 even exist?



TABLE LAMP!!!!!!!!! WHOOOOO KIDDDDDD! *gunshots*
hahaha

kudos to you and Films

[ggirlballa]

why does disc 2 even exist?



TABLE LAMP!!!!!!!!! WHOOOOO KIDDDDDD! *gunshots*

well u get more for your money, i guess, unless they price it more, which they probally will

lol

[Mr Films]

"table lamp" actually sounds more like a ghostface track.

but hov guests on the remix

[Lex Diamonds]

I can't be bothered to find the other thread but you can download a full-length, unedited version of the title track here (http://www.myspace.com/hoveezy).

[Mr Films]

the beat for Kingdom Come vaguely reminds me of TI's "I'm talkin to you" also by Blaze.

[cubsfirstplace]

someone explain the second disc to me, because those are all songs from "reasonable doubt"

[roosta]

someone explain the second disc to me, because those are all songs from "reasonable doubt"

he re-recorded them with new verses or something, and beyonce replaces mary j blige on "cant knock the hustle"

also comes with a third disk which is a DVD of the Reasonable Doubt 10th anniversery show.

[Lex Diamonds]

You fo' real? You get that from a reliable source?

[roosta]

You fo' real? You get that from a reliable source?

i think it was a music blog via Rolling Stone...

[Mr Films]

the dvd sounds cool, I don't see the point in re-recording old songs though.

[Tzar]

so.... kingdom come is gonna be a 3 cd pack or something? (2 cds / 1 dvd)

[mickill]

Production credits for Kingdom Come:

01. Prelude (Ghettobot)
02. Oh My God (Just Blaze)
03. Kingdom Come (Just Blaze)
04. Show Me What You Got (Just Blaze)
05. Lost One f/Chrissette Michelle (Dr. Dre)
06. Do You Wanna Ride f/John Legend (Kanye West)
07. 30 Something (Dr. Dre)
08. I Made It (Dr. Dre)
09. Anything f/Usher & Pharrell (The Neptunes)
10. Hollywood f/Beyonce (Scyience)
11. Trouble (Dr. Dre)
12. Dig A Hole f/Sterling Simms (Swizz Beatz)
13. Minority Report f/Ne-Yo (Dr. Dre)
14. Beach Chair f/Chris Martin (Chris Martin)

[roosta]

WHY DOESNT HE MAKE SONGS WITH PRIMO ANY MORE!?

[ggirlballa]

Production credits for Kingdom Come:

01. Prelude (Ghettobot)
02. Oh My God (Just Blaze)
03. Kingdom Come (Just Blaze)
04. Show Me What You Got (Just Blaze)
05. Lost One f/Chrissette Michelle (Dr. Dre)
06. Do You Wanna Ride f/John Legend (Kanye West)
07. 30 Something (Dr. Dre)
08. I Made It (Dr. Dre)
09. Anything f/Usher & Pharrell (The Neptunes)
10. Hollywood f/Beyonce (Scyience)
11. Trouble (Dr. Dre)
12. Dig A Hole f/Sterling Simms (Swizz Beatz)
13. Minority Report f/Ne-Yo (Dr. Dre)
14. Beach Chair f/Chris Martin (Chris Martin)

sounds nice

[mickill]

WHY DOESNT HE MAKE SONGS WITH PRIMO ANY MORE!?
I've been asking myself that for awhile. At least Nas "plans" to reunite with dude.

[Kid Presentable]

That DVD will have me paying for this. When that credits list gets to 'Chris Martin' it reminds me of this group of cashed up wives who were all Jenny, Julia, Judy, Judy, Julie, Jenny, Julie, Judy, Jane and .......Sukhinda.

[mickill]

The Black Album is probably better overall. I think the title track is probably still my favorite song on the album, though.

[Mr Films]

someone hook me up with this shit, PLZ

[mickill]

My thoughts on the album. Just a quicky:

Prelude - The beats pretty solid. But as far as Jigga albums where he spits on the intro, this is not touching the one on the Dynasty album.

Oh My God - Not JB's best work. But it's different. Again, as far as first tracks on the albums go, Jay's had much better.

Kingdom Come - Should have been track one. Best song on the album. I think it set the bar too high, though.

Show Me What You Got - Ugh

Lost One f/Chrisette Michele - Solid. That second verse is sub par, though. At first it seems pretty lackluster, but it kinda grows on you after a few listens.

Do You Wanna Ride f/John Legend - Another solid track, but I don't think the world needs another "let's ride" song.

30 Something - This sounds like a cross between The Watcher and some random 50 Cent song. Jay's spitting pretty nice on this one, though. And hey, "30's the new 20". Gotta appreciate that.

I Made It - Sounds like a Kanye beat on Steroids. Dre's best contribution to the album.

Anything f/Usher & Pharrell - Sometimes I think The Neptunes must secretly hate Jay. They tend to give him a lot of mediocre beats. That or Jay just picks their worst or most boring beats they have. Pharell would never let The Clipse use this. To top it all off "Human Douche In The Flesh" (Usher) is on this. And "bounce"?

Hollywood f/Beyonce - Why? Seriously. This is an R&B song. No, seriously.

Trouble - It sounds like a Lil Jon/Swizz Beatz hybrid at first, then the Dre-ness kicks in. Good track.

Dig A Hole f/Sterling Simms - Swizz is actually really starting to step things up with his production. I'm feeling this. The hook's kinda ehhh, but the dude singing on What More Can I Say wasn't exactly Marvin Gaye caliber either.

Minority Report f/Ne-Yo - Nice to hear Jigga tackling serious issues. Regarding Hurricane Katrina, Jay raps, "Sure I ponied up a mil, but I didn't give my time/ So in reality, I didn't give a dime". Probably the most significant line on the album.

Beach Chair f/Chris Martin - When the drums first kick in, it sounds like it's going to be incredible. Then 1.5 seconds later the gay strings kick in. Not feeling Chris Martin's hook either.

Overall, the album's solid. But I'm pretty sure most people had much higher hopes for it. Light on filler material, though. You can tell he tried, at least.

[Mcmac]

I Made It - Sounds like a Kanye beat on Steroids. Dre's best contribution to the album.

on my version it say's this songs beat is by Dj Khalil

album is pretty crap for jay-z

i still remember listening to the black album for the first time..almost every track sounded classic instantly.

[Maisailana]

i love it. its not as commercial sounding as the black album and its just as good.

[Lex Diamonds]

It's a grower. I first heard it and was like "meh", cuz I'll admit I did get pretty hyped about it. But the more I listen the better it's getting. It's like how people expected another Blueprint and he dropped the Black Album. Here people expected another Black Album, he dropped a Kingdom Come. I think it'll get better with time, it's just a new sound to get used to.

And yeah, the title track is probably the best song on there.

[roosta]

im gonna do a proper review after a few listens..but here's a quicky. like Padster,first listen i wasnt impressed, but after another go its growing on me. Beach Chair was quite the opposite of what i expected, and amazingly I like it. Some of the dre tracks are booooring, but Lost Ones is one of my faves. The one that starts off sounding like Swizz then becomes boring when Dre drops his done to death moody piano things.

some of the songs i can do with never hearing again (hollywood, the neptunes one) but the others are pretty strong.

ill have to give it a few more spins before i decide

[ggirlballa]

shit the local L.A Hip Hop station here (Power 106) was going crazy playing all of Kingdom Come, the DJ was so excited playing track after track, i had to leave the car so i only heard 4 or 5 tracks & i REALLY liked 2 of them & the other ones were pretty nice tracks too

i also downloaded all of it last night but i'll give it a listen later

[g-mile7]

Sucks it leaked, Im one the few that HATE when they leak entire LPs (starting back when they messed up the original 2CD I Am by Nas). Hope he fools people, the fact that both Timbaland and Scott Storch said they contributed to this LP as well as a joint with Nas gives me hope.

[adam_f]

I hate Scott Storch. That's really all I have to contribute. Surprise, surprise.

[g-mile7]

I hate Scott Storch. That's really all I have to contribute. Surprise, surprise.
Me too but damn Jewish man can make a good beat when he tries. He such a nerd though.

[Lex Diamonds]

Now I've had more of a chance to listen to it, I really like it. It's different to his old shit, but it's by no means one of his worst albums. It could even be his best after RD, TBP, and TBA.

Standout tracks for me:

Kingdom Come
Lost Ones
Do You Wanna Ride?
30 Something
Minority Report
Beach Chair


Subpar tracks:

Anything
Hollywood
Show Me What Ya Got

And the rest is all probably above average. Assuming this leaked version will be the final release version, I'd say unless Nas' LP completely blows it out of the water it could be main contender for best hip-hop disc of the year. Although that says more about the state of hip-hop than the quality of this album.

[Mr Films]

it could be main contender for best hip-hop disc of the year.

you're forgetting about Federline's record.

[adam_f]

Originally posted by g-mile7
Me too but damn Jewish man can make a good beat when he tries. He such a nerd though


He produced for Paris Hilton and his company is called Tuff Jew. Try to be gayer.

[Tzar]

listening now. think i'll be buying it. (y)

[Gareth]

i keep waiting for the beat on kindgom come to break out at 170bpm

[pshabi]

Try to be gayer.

Okay, you asked for it.

He worked with Brooke Hogan too!:p

[g-mile7]

Okay, you asked for it.

He worked with Brooke Hogan too!:p
And Dre and The Roots :)

[mickill]

I just never have been that impressed by Jay-Z, and never understood what the hype was about. I mean, 99 problems was good more because of Rick Rubin than Jay-Z to me.

Nobody ever said you were perfect.

I assume you're a much better rapper than he is since you aren't all that impressed by his purported skill then, I guess, huh? I'll bet that the Williams sisters and Bach don't impress you much either.

[adam_f]

Originally posted by g-mile7
And Dre and The Roots :)

Even they can't make up for it man. My God.

Brooke Hogan? Really?

[g-mile7]

I just never have been that impressed by Jay-Z, and never understood what the hype was about. I mean, 99 problems was good more because of Rick Rubin than Jay-Z to me.
I agree about 99 problems though its decent but not Jay's best effort

[g-mile7]

Even they can't make up for it man. My God.

Brooke Hogan? Really?
Man she the Hulksters girl...you want Hulkamania to run loose?!

[mickill]

I agree about 99 problems though its decent but not Jay's best effort
That 2nd verse is incredible. That's storytelling on par with Slick Rick or Ice Cube's best work.

The thing I like about Jay is he knows when to spit complex and when to simplify in order to match the beat. You can't just assault every single track. A beat like 99 Problems needs that space to breathe.

[g-mile7]

That 2nd verse is incredible. That's storytelling on par with Slick Rick or Ice Cube's best work.

The thing I like about Jay is he knows when to spit complex and when to simplify in order to match the beat. You can't just assault every single track. A beat like 99 Problems needs that space to breathe. I just dont think the beat is right for him and always have. It is a decent/good track.

[mickill]

I think he killed it. That was like a career milestone for the guy.

[g-mile7]

I think he killed it. That was like a career milestone for the guy.
Im have to give it another chance, let alone the whole Black Album hahaha

[ggirlballa]

That 2nd verse is incredible. That's storytelling on par with Slick Rick or Ice Cube's best work.

yes!:eek:

i even memorized the whole 2nd verse just becuz of the storytelling style:cool:

[g-mile7]

Sucks it leaked, Im one the few that HATE when they leak entire LPs (starting back when they messed up the original 2CD I Am by Nas). Hope he fools people, the fact that both Timbaland and Scott Storch said they contributed to this LP as well as a joint with Nas gives me hope.
Im psychic...according to Wikipedia many songs on the leak LP have been removed according to Egypt of Power 1O5 fame...maybe he leaked it to see what tracks (I know people Show Me What U Got whatever) he'll cut

[ggirlballa]

interesting

[pshabi]

interesting
very

[g-mile7]

very
Also on XXL website Jay has a diss song towards Dipsets Jim Jones (sorry LOL) supposdly over the "We Fly High" aka "BALLINNN!!!" beat...Im peep it see how it is.

[mickill]

Yeah, it's here (http://www.spinemagazine.com/music/november/jayz/brooklynhigh.mp3) too.

I think he kinda conceded victory to Nas for Ether on the track.

[g-mile7]

Yeah, it's here (http://www.spinemagazine.com/music/november/jayz/brooklynhigh.mp3) too.

I think he kinda conceded victory to Nas for Ether on the track.
Hell no, if anything he said that even the hardest track thrown at him didnt make him lose his swagger...Takeover>Ether my word

[roosta]

Hell no, if anything he said that even the hardest track thrown at him didnt make him lose his swagger...Takeover>Ether my word

Takeover is a better song, most people I know think this so i dunno why the general consesus is Nas won.........but between this song and "Blueprint2" he more or less concede's defeat.

[g-mile7]

Takeover is a better song, most people I know think this so i dunno why the general consesus is Nas won.........but between this song and "Blueprint2" he more or less concede's defeat.
Hatas and Nas fans is all

But he went at Nas just as hard on Blueprint 2. I dont see how he is conceeding anything. Like I said b4 his one line mention of Ether doesnt mean he is conceeding this in the context of this song.I dont see how anyone would see it any different espically Blueprint 2...

[roosta]

Hatas and Nas fans is all

But he went at Nas just as hard on Blueprint 2. I dont see how he is conceeding anything. Like I said b4 his one line mention of Ether doesnt mean he is conceeding this in the context of this song.I dont see how anyone would see it any different espically Blueprint 2...

well...doesnt jay say in that very song (which is about him and nas) "theres a valuable lesson in defeat so it evens it up for me.."

now..he did take shots at nas on blueprint 2, no doubt (and some really good ones) but the overall feeling was of a man picking over the results of a lost battle...

[g-mile7]

well...doesnt jay say in that very song (which is about him and nas) "theres a valuable lesson in defeat so it evens it up for me.."

now..he did take shots at nas on blueprint 2, no doubt (and some really good ones) but the overall feeling was of a man picking over the results of a lost battle...



Your not analyzing these songs right my friend......and missing a key part to that line you quoted....


Can't y'all, see that he's fake, the rap version of TD jakes
Prophesizing on your CDs and tapes
Won't break you a crumb of the little bit that he makes
And this is with whom you want to place your faith?
I put dollars on mine, ask Columbine
When the Twin Towers dropped, I was the first in line
Donating proceeds off every ticket sold
When I was out on the road, that's how you judge Hov, no?
Ain't I supposed to be absorbed myself?
Every time there's a tragedy, I'm the first one to help
They call me this misogynist, but they don't call me the dude
To take his dollars to give gifts at the projects
These dudes is all politics, depositing checks
they put in they pocket, all you get in return is a lot of lip
And y'all buy the shit, caught up in the hype
Cause the nigga wear a coofie, it don't mean that he bright
Cause you don't understand him, it don't mean that he nice
It just means you don't understand all the bullshit that he write
Is it "Oochie Wally Wally" or is it "One Mic"?
Is it "Black Girl Lost" or shorty owe you for ice?
I've been real all my life, they confuse it with conceit
Since I will not lose, they try to help him cheat
But I will not lose, for even in defeat
There's a valuable lesson learned, so it evens up for me
When the grass is cut, the snakes will show
I gotta thank the little homie Nas for that though
Saving me the hassle of speaking to half of these assholes
And I'ma let karma catch up to Jaz-O, whoa
I'm back before you had a chance to miss me
My mama can't save you this time, niggas is history
Who you know flow vicious as me?
Yet so religiously, that's why they call me Hov
I get the spoils cause the victor is me (me, nigga)
You're an actor, you're not who you're depicted to be
The street dreamin, all y'all niggas living through me
I gave you life when niggas was forgetting you emcee
I'm a legend, you should take a picture with me
You should be happy to be in my presence, I should charge you a fee
I'm Big Dog, Glenn Rob, listen God you a flea
And the little homey Jungle is a garden to me
What's the problem B? You not as hard as me
Nigga hard as we, nigga R O C, nigga
That's why they follow me, they feel my pain and my agony, nigga
I won't rest till you on one knee
You want war then it's war's gonna be, nigga
Until you on one knee, you want war then it's war's gonna be, nigga



Don't know what verse your listening to man....I really dont have a clue at all.....he doesnt have a passive tone in this whole verse...even if he was to lose he says Nas will never win; thus, he will never lose.

"maybe my nigga Nas, but I got stronger after Ether" (more of him giving respect to Nas being the only one to challenge him, but even Ether (could even be a double meaning as well) couldnt kill him).












Tangent:


"Later, he also claimed that he would have a different producer for each track. In fact, early magazine advertisements for the album featured full-page layouts featuring a series of numbers, representing tracks, and the producer for each one of them."


Thats the Black Album I wanted (and if I ever get lucky enough will have/do) man I still remeber seeing the ads this quote from Wikipedia refered to being like "damn" only to be dispointed with less then memorable (in comparsion to works on Resonable Doubt, Vol2 and 3, Roc La Famila Blueprint 1 and 2). It had it's moments for production, but the lyrics were underwhelming too. I said this when it first came out and still stick with this, although I will give it another listen just cause alot of people on here hearing something I must have missed ("every track was an instant classic" statments like this make me scratch my head since the majority of the tracks were not up to a "classic" level).

[roosta]

ach..dude, you've missed the point i think....he's trying to put a positive spin on his loss...even if you copy and paste all the lyrics i still maintain my point; that one line undermines his whole position if you ask me.

[g-mile7]

ach..dude, you've missed the point i think....he's trying to put a positive spin on his loss...even if you copy and paste all the lyrics i still maintain my point; that one line undermines his whole position if you ask me.


Your point is Jay said that Nas won. Thats your point. I didn't miss anything about your point other then how you are defending this point which I have tried to break down for you and others.




:confused: I don't know how "I will not lose" "The victor is me" or "Ether made me stronger" means anything else other then him admiting he lost. Whatever though you think what you want I disagree and have proven this....












Back to the diss song...it was decent and funny to hear Jay finally get at Dipset, wasnt too good although lines about "Well if you BALLLIN..." and the comparisions of each of their bank accounts was funny.

[Gareth]

http://www.zshare.net/audio/jim-jones-ft-jay-z-and-juelz-santana-we-fly-high-beef-remix-mp3.html

jim jones

[adam_f]

EXPERT ANALYSIS: Jay lost to Nas.

[Auton]

no wayyyyyy. ether was on some gradeschool shit. "gay-z?" good one, nas.

[Ason Unique]

The only time I really 'got' Ether was when I watched some video on Youtube outlining exactly what Nas was on about.

[mickill]

The differences between 'Takeover' and 'Ether' are pretty simple: Jay went at Nas sort of playfully and spit lines that were more or less factual ("one hot album every ten years average", "You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song" etc) and Nas went at Jay more offensively and said a bunch of shit that wasn't even true ("Compared to Beans you wack", "you thirty-six in a karate class" etc). Both are good songs, but in the end, I think Jay's lines hurt Nas more. When Jay put out 'Super Ugly' he kind of crossed the line, though. But 'Blueprint 2' (despite the idiotic hook) was on point. Nas kinda took a few shots at him on God's Son, too. I don't know, I think Nas kinda lies a lot or something.

And Jay shouldn't have even addressed the Jim Jones thing. And if he was going to, he should have at least smashed him. Instead he gave dude a remix and added to his BDS spins. And now he's probably going to have to reply yet again.

His verses on 'Trouble' were better than anything he spit on 'Brooklyn High', anyway.

[Lex Diamonds]

His verses on 'Trouble' were better than anything he spit on 'Brooklyn High', anyway.
True. "If my hand's in the cookie jar know one thing: I'ma take the cookie not leave my ring." That's class.

And I don't usually think much of raps where every other word is "nigga", but this one is a real gem:

But in lieu of lil niggas tryina play that boy
I *piw piw* lil niggas with the latest toy

(How the fuck do you type out the noise of a silenced gunshot?)

[yooooo]

'tshk tshk'

[Lex Diamonds]

I dunno I definitely think there should be a "P" in there.

[yooooo]

'ptshk ptshk' ? :(

[Lex Diamonds]

:(

[Tzar]

you can't type anything... because it's silent... so it can't have any noise.

[mickill]

Actually, Trouble is more subliminal than anything. But Dig A Hole, on the other hand, is directed entirely at Jim Jones, Cam and Dame Dash.

"Niggas like, Hov why dont you get at ol' boy?/
Why kill a puppet and leave Geppetto alive?"

"Outside of your league, thats not what you do/
Niggas throwing ROC signs outside of your coupe"

"Only time you went plat/
My chain was around your neck"

[ggirlballa]

damn! MTV is having a Jay-Z marathon or something i've never seen Jigga on MTV that much:eek:

so any predictions on how much Kingdome Come will sell or where its gonna rank on Billboard in its first week?:rolleyes:

[g-mile7]

The differences between 'Takeover' and 'Ether' are pretty simple: Jay went at Nas sort of playfully and spit lines that were more or less factual ("one hot album every ten years average", "You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song" etc) and Nas went at Jay more offensively and said a bunch of shit that wasn't even true ("Compared to Beans you wack", "you thirty-six in a karate class" etc). Both are good songs, but in the end, I think Jay's lines hurt Nas more.Damn right

[g-mile7]

Nas won in the streets mainly since people never heard Nas spit like that at Jay. In terms of lyrical content and songs Jay won. Nas signed to Def Jam anyway so really both dont care enough bout who won...still know that Jay didnt mean the lines towards Ether as anything more then respect.

[pshabi]

Did anybody buy this today? Is it the same tracklisting as the leaked version?

[g-mile7]

Did anybody buy this today? Is it the same tracklisting as the leaked version?
Yes and yes. I would post an extensive review but I dont feel like having people critique my critique and sayin I cant change their mind. I say 3.5/4 out of 5...its great not fair to hold it up to the standards set prior like Nas and Illmatic. Its def. an older Jay but he can still spit

[mickill]

It's not getting the best reviews.

I think it's consistent, but he doesn't take a lot of chances. It's a mature rap album; it's adult contemporary hip hop.

I think that apart from Hollywood and Anything being completely unlistenable and Show Me What You Got and Beach Chair being kinda gay, it's a pretty solid album. And I'm pretty sure that if some new rapper out of nowhere dropped an album equal to Kingdom Come, the mainstream media and internet nerds alike would be hailing him as that next dude.

Sickest line of the year:

Fuck that!/ Exclamation, comma
Quotations, "I love the drama"/ Period

[g-mile7]

It's not getting the best reviews.

I think it's consistent, but he doesn't take a lot of chances. It's a mature rap album; it's adult contemporary hip hop.

I think that apart from Hollywood and Anything being completely unlistenable and Show Me What You Got and Beach Chair being kinda gay, it's a pretty solid album. And I'm pretty sure that if some new rapper out of nowhere dropped an album equal to Kingdom Come, the mainstream media and internet nerds alike would be hailing him as that next dude.

Sickest line of the year:

Fuck that!/ Exclamation, comma
Quotations, "I love the drama"/ Period


I think Beach Chair is more emotional than Minority Report.

[Mr Films]

I like Beach Chair

even the Chris Martin cameo

[mickill]

I find the drums a bit defeaning and the whole concept kind of ehhhh.

[Mr Films]

I find the drums a bit defeaning and the whole concept kind of ehhhh.

I find your face kind of ehhhhh

WHATTAYATHINKOFDAT?

[mickill]

I'm okay with that. Because I'm assuming that it would stem from your own insecurities and your inadvertent admission of your extremely poor taste in music, being that you loooove Beach Chair.

Sunshine>Beach Chair

[Mr Films]

you're right. you're always right.

in fact, I'm just going to put this out there:

World, after 3 complete listens, I deem Jay-Z's "Beach Chair" (feat. Chris Martin of platinum selling made-for-tv-movie dramatic moment scoring band Coldplay) to be the BEST SONG IN THE HISTORY OF MAN.

period.

[The Notorious LOL]

this album kinda sucks word bond

[Lex Diamonds]

Beach Chair is a nice song. First few times I heard it I thought it was wack and the drums pissed me off. But it's grown on me, I think the chorus works quite well, and I'm kinda into that whole "contemplating the meaning of life" shit that Jay does sometimes.

[mickill]

you're right. you're always right.

in fact, I'm just going to put this out there:

World, after 3 complete listens, I deem Jay-Z's "Beach Chair" (feat. Chris Martin of platinum selling made-for-tv-movie dramatic moment scoring band Coldplay) to be the BEST SONG IN THE HISTORY OF MAN.

period.

Whoa. You're being totally serious about that I'll bet.

99 Problems>Beach Chair

[Ason Unique]

The album is kinda average.

[roosta]

I like this album, but its not amazing. Some classics, some good tracks, and some i could do without. The one thing though which this album proves is just how good Jay is on the mic, cuz there's songs on this which have beats/hooks which dont interest me at all, but ive been re-spinning them purely on the strength of Jigga's rhymes. He's untouchable right now.

The other thing this album proves is that Dr. Dre is amazingly over-rated.

[Mr Films]

Whoa. You're being totally serious about that I'll bet.

99 Problems>Beach Chair

funny you should say that. all day today I'll be listening to Kingdom Come on the ipod and almost each time I get bored and switch to Black Album.

you were spot on with the "adult contempo hip-hop" comment.

[Lex Diamonds]

The other thing this album proves is that Dr. Dre is amazingly over-rated.
I agree with your post entirely 100% except for that. In my opinion 30 Something is the best beat on the album.

[Ason Unique]

His raps are pretty good, but tell me something I didn't know. Name some albums that came out this year that it's better than. It's better than Game Theory, but I like 4:21 better atm.

[roosta]

I agree with your post entirely 100% except for that. In my opinion 30 Something is the best beat on the album.

Its just kinda boring to me. ITs not a bad beat, but its Dr. Dre by-numbers. He's used that bass-sound a zillion times, and that low-end orchestra hit a thousand times. Its still a good song, but i dont think these days Dre deserves the God-like praise he gets. He can programme what, 2 types of beat?

[ggirlballa]

jigga is in hollywood right now signing stuff at the virgin megastore,& hollywood blvd is closed down just for him so he can perform on Jimmy Kimmel's show, he's 25 minutes away from me!

[Mr Films]

so do you people think he'll shift right back into the album-a-year thing again?

or is this just a one off?

[g-mile7]

I find the drums a bit defeaning and the whole concept kind of ehhhh.
Rapping bout Katrina isnt anymore unique and the drums a bit deafing? 99 problems whole beat is a bit deafing. I love the drum and Jiggas lyrics are self-reflection at its best. His delivery and words go with the intensity of the beat which is reminisce of some 8O's Tears 4 Fear/U2 (funny huh?). You also have to think who made the beat and how much more cornier it couldve been.

[g-mile7]

U know that song was a big risk too(next to Minority) ,the fact it came out better than expectations was a win (Chris Martin doin rap?).When mickill talked bout the strings I thought they were overdone,I was suprised after listening to it how it doesnt stick out 2 much.The whole Beachchair simile is gay,yes but the overal song overshadows this.And Chris' hook was cool 2 me,given his cameo wasnt overdone (ex:Adam Levin/Heard em Say). Good overal closing track matched the theme of the LP spot on.

[g-mile7]

so do you people think he'll shift right back into the album-a-year thing again?

or is this just a one off?
The reviews alone might have him holdin us down 4 another summer.

[Otis Driftwood]

Fuck this°! This is not about Manowar...:mad:

[g-mile7]

this album kinda sucks word bond
Naw...dont hate too much on it due to expectations impossible to match.

Top3(I repeat alot)
Kingdom Come
3O Something
Beach Chair

honorable:Minority Report,Lost Ones, I Made It (very Blueprint like)

Bottom 3:
Anything and Hollywood (his flows good on both though like Roosta refered 2, will make good "singles" not 4 the streets)
Do U Wanna Ride (sounds more like a John Legend song and his hook is meh). Proves Kanyes best is sample based.

[Kid Presentable]

I'll keep listening. My initial disappointment demonstrates the higher standard Hov is held to.

[Lex Diamonds]

I'll keep listening. My initial disappointment demonstrates the higher standard Hov is held to.
I think it takes 3 or 4 listens to the album before you start to appreciate it. It "grows on you", whatever that means. Anyway, after having it for around 2 weeks I've decided I really like it. (y)

[roosta]

I think it takes 3 or 4 listens to the album before you start to appreciate it. It "grows on you", whatever that means. Anyway, after having it for around 2 weeks I've decided I really like it. (y)

I agree. Its defintely a "grower". Ive given it about 10 spins now and i think its pretty good. I think it finally clicked for me tonight, as i was on the bus. Track after track i was like, this is damn good stuff. Not as good as i expected, but still a fairly solid album.

I think the main thing it proved, for me at least, is truely how good a rapper Jay-Z is. Because as i've said, there's some songs on this album that if they were graced by someone else i dont think id listen to them again, but the rhymes alone keep me interested. Up until recently if someone said to me "who's the better rapper, nas or jay" id probably out of some keep-it-real bullshit said Nas, but when you think about it, what's nas's big failure been? Poor beats. There's a handful of songs on Street's Disciple i go near now, but through out jay's career even when he's flowed on things which wouldnt be my cup of tea, i still find myself going back to them. And here this is never better shown, as overall i think the beats are slightly lacking, but its saved by the vocals.

So here it goes, my fairly hastily cobbled together track-by-track thoughts:

[The Prelude] - First of all, jay-z finally works out that you can't start an album with a interlude and names it correctly. He's done these intro things better i suppose, alright tho.

[Oh My God] - Excellent! Usual Just Blaze craziness, typical Jay-Z rhymes. Perfect way to kick off the album proper.

[Kingdom Come] - Same as above really. Everyone likes this one.

[Show Me What You Got] - Didn't like it at first; but its grown on me since. For a lead single from a Jigga album its the strongest since the Dynasty album (which i think kicked off with "Give It 2 Me", well at least it did over here). Typicaly flashy pop stuff, but better than when he usually does this stuff. Can't hate it.

[Lost Ones] - one of my favourites. Produced by Dre, the beat has its pro's and con's. Nice sample, with some nice touches, but with a fairly boring Dre-drum pattern. Lyrically one of the most interesting with Jigga directly addressing Dame, Beyonce and his dead cousin (?), sets the tone for the more introspective side of the album.

[Do U Wanna Ride] - Brilliant. When i saw the title/that it featured John Legend i was preparing myself to hate it, but i think its excellent. Not a typical Kanye beat at all, but its nice and subdued, when it could have turned corny. Also bonus points for the third verse chord-change. Good work men.

[30 Something] - Again proof of how lyrcially Jay can rise above his beats. Interesting topic (how old gits are cooler than young bucks) delivered with humour but over a fairly boring Dre-by-numbers beat. Not a BAD beat, but its like a cast off from "2001".

[I Made It] - First miss of the album for me. Sounds like a left over from "Blueprint 2" plus its a topic matter Jay has driven into the ground now (look mother, im rich!). Boring. A "skipper".

[Anything] Second miss of the album. The wheels are begginging to wobble on the "kingdom come" tricycle. Features Usher over a boring Nepture's beat and Jay-Z delivering some awkward sex rhymes. Good flow though, and i do give it repeat listens due to this. Jay-Z is getting closer to being declared Roosta's G.O.A.T. as a result. The crowd wait in anticipation.

[Hollywood] HAT-TRICK! Jigga delivers three duds in a row! Not good. Then again he did this for half of "Blueprint 2" so its no shocker. Stupid Rap-n-Bullshit featuring the missus. (is she even the missus, as he called her a selfish child on Lost Ones? Oh! GOSSIP!) Again good rapping.

BUT THEN. Jay delivers the most SHOCKING rap ever RAPPED by a RAPPING MAN. When i heard this I wanted to burn the mp3 onto a CD, just so i could drop a brick on the CD then take a shit on the shards. He says:

"WHen your friends is Chris and Gwynith"

Now, at that moment, my eyebrow was so raised it nearly launched off my face. Worse than the shit bout being on a boat in the south of france with Bono from another song i thankfully have forgotten about. If fact, im not gonna dwell on this one much longer, as i will end up changing my mind about everything Jay has ever done. But don't worry, next song Jay is going to bring it back to the gutter. A skipper despite a good vocal showing.

[Trouble] - Another Dre one, which I didn't like at first, but have grown to. Most interesting thing is the lyrics, kinda part one of Jay's response to Dipset, and goes along way to erasing the memory of what has just shat in my ears. Old School Jay gangsta rhymes. Uses the term "little nigga" bout a billion times, and then Jigga drops the bomb-line:

"God MC Little Nigga Applaud, or forever burn in the fire i spit at y'all"

So, its Jay-Z threating to kill people over a gangsta Dre beat. All is right again in the world.

[Dig A Hole] Meh. Dont really like Swizz Beats, Notable though for Jay going at Cam. More or less admits he shouldnt even bother, and then burys him with one line, that Cam only went platinum when he was on the Roc. Nuff said.

[Minority Report] This is the one everyones jizzing themselves about. Im not crazy on it. Beat is kinda boring, the topic matter is a bit old now. Its nice to hear Jay get overtly political, but the crying-rapping sounds stupid. At least when Ghost does it you know he's a bit touched in the head. As I said, Not crazy bout it, but its not bad either. Jay is like that old cliche, he's like sex, even when its bad...its pretty good.

[Beach Chair] Ahhh...this old chestnut. Fully expected this to be trash, but i really like it. Who'd have known the little git from Coldplay could out-produce Dr. fucking Dre on an album? Huge Shadow-esque drums, dramatic strings, and himself whining the chorus all add up to a pretty good song, amazingly. Jay is rattling on about something which i dont quite get, which is odd cuz for a rapper who generally makes a point of pointing out his imagery/metaphors with a bit of "get it wink wink" makes the claim that "life is but a beach chair" and leaves us to work out what he's on about. A strong closer after what is frankly a weak second half.

So in closing; its a pretty good album. A trio of stinkers in the middle, the rest are either ok or pretty good and one or two stormers. As i said, what stands out for me is Jay's lyrical game. He's at the absolute top, and on this he's touching subjects he's never gone near. Also kinda shows how over-rated Dre is. people were jizzing themselves over the fact that he produced 4 songs on this, and at their best there just good. Ah well.

Final thought: NEEDS FUCKING PRIMO.

[g-mile7]

Good review Roosta. The Bono line is from Guns N Roses which I felt was a strong track from Blueprint 2. Other than the Kanye song I agree with you, espically the point bout his delivery on Minority (Ghost/RZA was the 1st person I thought of when I heard this) and 3O Something sounding like 2OO1. Funny to note that Lost Ones has the same type of beat pattern as 3O although both beats are ill, typical but ill. Plus Jay pulls the "rappin over a West Side" beat better on 3O than Biggie wit Goin Back to Cali.

[g-mile7]

Funny to point out that next to Kingdom Come alot of reviewers have been raving about the beat 4 Beach Chair...it also seems that Jay is pulling a move that Pac used to do and made a song 4 his unborn future daugther which is intriguing since there appears to be no child on the way. I think if Nas had rapped Jiggas lyrics over this beat people would be calling this song a classic. Mickill man the drums sound muffled to me and are espically absent during Jays parts. I dont know where they were deafening.

[ggirlballa]

my question is will this album satisfy a 13 year-old's attention span?

[Mr Films]

my question is will this album satisfy a 13 year-old's attention span?

probably not.

there's something not quite as accessible about this as his previous stuff.

[Kid Presentable]

I like the focus on lyrics.

[adam_f]

I've always listened to Jay-Z for his flow, not really for the beats. That being said, I would like this album much better if it were a cappella. Aside from the first Dre track and whichever one samples "Superfreak" I really can't get into it. His flow is still sharper and sicker than anyone could dream of, but god, I just can't get into this album.

[ggirlballa]

I've always listened to Jay-Z for his flow, not really for the beats. That being said, I would like this album much better if it were a cappella. Aside from the first Dre track and whichever one samples "Superfreak" I really can't get into it. His flow is still sharper and sicker than anyone could dream of, but god, I just can't get into this album.

give it some time everybody here says "its a grow on you" type of album like the Beastie Boy's "Paul's Boutique" it took me a while to like that on but then i finally fell in love with it

anywayz i think i'ma buy jay's album,

[Kid Presentable]

I have to swerve a bit and say I am really enjoying Trouble and Do U Wanna Ride. I may paraphrase mickill a bit and say that Kingdom Come the song is so good, that if any rapper came out over that beat, people would flip.

[Mr Films]

"Ultimately, hip-hop is a video game where Jay-Z’s beaten every level, and he’s halfheartedly trying to rack up more points."

[ggirlballa]

i got it today & was playing it alot in the car (cruising hollywood with a jay-z cd feels really nice) i like it, not bad jay not bad(y)

[Kid Presentable]

Yeah it's good because it's Jay-Z, but the bad songs are unforgiveable. Especially for the comeback album.

[roosta]

"Ultimately, hip-hop is a video game where Jay-Z’s beaten every level, and he’s halfheartedly trying to rack up more points."

say what you want about this album...i dont think its fair to call it "half-hearted"

[Kid Presentable]

say what you want about this album...i dont think its fair to call it "half-hearted"
I agree with you, roosta. It's not half-hearted at all when you consider the relative risks of the Coldplay thing, and also how good the first three tracks are.

[Mr Films]

say what you want about this album...i dont think its fair to call it "half-hearted"

that was just a quote from an online review. I don't think the album sounds half hearted. But I agree with the analogy in that there's no real reason for this album.

[Mr Films]

shit Dig a Hole is fire.

if I touched it, I'd burn my hand.

[roosta]

that was just a quote from an online review. I don't think the album sounds half hearted. But I agree with the analogy in that there's no real reason for this album.

thats a very cynical attitude to have...surely the reason is jay-z likes making music...like most musicians?

[Mr Films]

thats a very cynical attitude to have...surely the reason is jay-z likes making music...like most musicians?

right, of course.

but given the whole "retirement" thing. plus the fact that he was never actually in the studio with any of the producers it all just seems like it's all about the $$$

I'm really not hating and I actually like the album more and more each time I hear it. I hope we get another one next year.

[ggirlballa]

shit Dig a Hole is fire.

if I touched it, I'd burn my hand.


agreed when i played it my brother turned the volume up(y)

[Lex Diamonds]

but given the whole "retirement" thing. plus the fact that he was never actually in the studio with any of the producers it all just seems like it's all about the $$$
Nope. First off he's got more than enough cash already, this album will probably add up to like 3% of his overall earnings. Also, he said in an interview that he originally started off with rap just to make some cash (only intended to make Reasonable Doubt and leave it at that) and it was just another hustle for him, but he fell in love with the music and that's why he carried on.

From The Prelude:

Forget this rap shit I need a new hustle
A little bit of everything, the new improved Russell [Simmons]
I say that reluctantly cuz I do struggle
As you see I can't leave so I do love you
But I'm just a hustler disguised as a rapper

[Lex Diamonds]

This interview kinda clears up what I just said. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihWCdgxVr1w)

[g-mile7]

680,000 units first week but what I want to know is if they factored it as a double disc, even though one is a DVD, then, if the rumors are true, he only sold a little less then 350,000

[adam_f]

The God MC of hip hop returns after a three year retirement and fails to sell more in a week than the goddamn Rascal Flatts. I hate America.

[mickill]

Raekwon's hatin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yxpn49AhEc&eurl=)

I have a lot of respect for Rae, but this is corny.

[Kid Presentable]

Raekwon's hatin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yxpn49AhEc&eurl=)

I have a lot of respect for Rae, but this is corny.
Good for him saying it though. People who don't like the album are getting cut down. It just bigs Jay up, more than anything, to know that the debate is public at the top level. It's contoversial and divisive, like my man Phil.

The album got better, but I can still see what he means.

[mickill]

Maybe he should go back and listen to the Lex Diamond album.

[g-mile7]

Maybe he should go back and listen to the Lex Diamond album.
and Ice Cream pt 2

[mickill]

Not to mention that Immobilarity was the single most disappointing rap album I ever bought in my life. There was like two good songs on that shit. I don't think that any rapper ever followed up their classic debut with anything worse than that, so I don't know what he's talking about. Dude's acting like he has a string of classic solos under his belt.

That being said, I'm still anticipating that OBFCL2.

[g-mile7]

Not to mention that Immobilarity was the single most disappointing rap album I ever bought in my life. There was like two good songs on that shit. I don't think that any rapper ever followed up their classic debut with anything worse than that, so I don't know what he's talking about. Dude's acting like he has a string of classic solos under his belt.

That being said, I'm still anticipating that OBFCL2.
He just defending Meth and maybe Ghost I'd like 2 believe but its Rae...

[mickill]

Ghost is quite happy with Jay apparently.

I figured it could be more to do with Meth and Red.

[g-mile7]

Ghost is quite happy with Jay apparently.
I figured it could be more to do with Meth and Red.
Unless LOL's theory of rushing out More Fish just 2 fufill his deal with Def Jam&kick him off is right,but I hope its just cause of what,u said seems Meth&Rae are pretty close but then I listen to 36 Chambers&Forever when Raes rants&I see its part of his nature 2 run his fatty lips,talk all he wants Jay will always be more verstile and,as Kingdom Come proves,unpredictable

[g-mile7]

It will be hard 4 OBCL2 Coke rap to out shine Hell Hath No Fury coke rap...all depends if Rae, RZA and Dre step their game up.

[mickill]

Hell Hath No Fury is the best rap album of '06 pretty much. Only thing that could potentially change that is Nas.

[adam_f]

The one thing I really enjoy about Hell Hath No Fury aside from the obvious is that there is not one song with an R&B hook.

[Mr Films]

The one thing I really enjoy about Hell Hath No Fury aside from the obvious is that there is not one song with an R&B hook.

I just picked it up today and was thinking the same thing.

The beats are fucking fire across the board.

[g-mile7]

The one thing I really enjoy about Hell Hath No Fury aside from the obvious is that there is not one song with an R&B hook.
Keys open doors and Chinese New Years are so gangsta...oh man "so much white u might think your holy Chirst is near" damn!!! Dirty Money, weakest track I say, but its basically the only B grade on a A grade album

Im waiting till 12th b4 I listen 2 Mo' Fish

[Mr Films]

^awwww Dirty Money is tight!

almost sounds like a NERD track with Clipse on vocals or something

[mickill]

Dirty Money is sick as hell. I kinda figured that it was gonna be the one song that a lot of people wouldn't get, but that song is just nuts. The clipped drums/hats and simple keyboard guitar riff, they just go against the aesthetic of everything in commercial rap music. Yet the song still manages to be catchy and melodic and doesn't forsake any rawness.

I kinda hate how a lot of people keep bitching about the production being garbage. It's like, that's how rap music should sound, you penis-squeezers.

[Mr Films]

brain like terri
face like eva
i ain't even forget them other housewives neitha

[mickill]

Nevermind.

[mickill]

Don't mind me.

[roosta]

More Fish > Kingdom Come

[Lex Diamonds]

More Fish > Kingdom Come
pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff ffffffffffffffft

No way.

[Kid Presentable]

More Fish > Kingdom Come
I dunno if you're fucking about, but I do agree.

[roosta]

Well...to me Kingdom Come isn't an amazing album at all...its just pretty good. It's not one that I can ever see becoming a classic in my opinion or getting repeated plays. Its just a good album. Jigga's done much better, but its still not bad. More or less the same with More Fish. Its a good solid album for the most part. And overall...its better than Kingdom Come.

But in the end, its kind of pointless comparing these things...ill listen to them both.

[Kid Presentable]

Well...to me Kingdom Come isn't an amazing album at all...its just pretty good. It's not one that I can ever see becoming a classic in my opinion or getting repeated plays. Its just a good album. Jigga's done much better, but its still not bad. More or less the same with More Fish. Its a good solid album for the most part. And overall...its better than Kingdom Come.

But in the end, its kind of pointless comparing these things...ill listen to them both.
Fishscale>Kingdom Come, then.

edit: Not that it matters, I guess.

[Lex Diamonds]

IMO

Hell Hath No Fury=Kingdom Come>Tha Blue Carpet Treatment=Fishscale>everything else this year (Game and Jeezy sucked sweaty balls, I downloaded both and I don't get the hype at all- what's so great about unoffensive production with shit lyrics?)

Although I've never been too into Ghost solo shit (did I say that already?), so maybe it is the best album ever and I just don't feel it.

[Kid Presentable]

Hell Hath No Fury is better in every way to me than Kingdom Come. Beats, Lyrics, whatever. Although, it's a little stupid of me to try and shit on an album (Kingdom Come) that's generated this many pages of discussion. I like Kingdom Come too.

[Lex Diamonds]

Hell Hath No Fury is better in every way to me than Kingdom Come. Beats, Lyrics, whatever. Although, it's a little stupid of me to try and shit on an album (Kingdom Come) that's generated this many pages of discussion. I like Kingdom Come too.
It's different. KC's best beats are better, but it's average beats are much worse. HHNF is a more consistent album and so has more decent songs (in fact there isn't a bad one on it), but for me the lyrics and beats don't touch KC at its best.

[Kid Presentable]

It's different. KC's best beats are better, but it's average beats are much worse. HHNF is a more consistent album and so has more decent songs (in fact there isn't a bad one on it), but for me the lyrics and beats don't touch KC at its best.
That's you, man. The beat for Kingdom Come itself is amazing, but Hell Hath is my preferred album. I can listen to Hell Hath all the way through.

[Lex Diamonds]

That's you, man. The beat for Kingdom Come itself is amazing, but Hell Hath is my preferred album. I can listen to Hell Hath all the way through.
True, I always skip 3 tracks on KC (can ya guess which?) but I guess it's up there for me cuz I just love Jay's delivery and his whole "look at me I'm the shit" persona. Probably because he pretty much is the shit.

Anyways I'm not saying it's better, just saying for me it's up there with it. Still, Clipse is probably my album of the year if not purely for the fact they came out of nowhere and made a completely solid (ie no 'skip' tracks) album. (y)

[Kid Presentable]

Lord Willin was so good, I expected the new one to be awesome.

[mickill]

Hell Hath No Fury is way more consistent than Lord Willin. Lord Willin is still nuts, though. HHNF is just nutser.

I believe the order is: Hell Hath No Fury> Kingdom Come>4:21 The Day After> Fishscale

I'd choose a lot of other albums over More Fish, Blue Carpet Treatment and Doctor's Advocate.

[Auton]

i thought you'd have to be nuts if you thought '4:21 the day after' is better than fishscale. what makes you say that?

[adam_f]

I like 4:21 better than Fishscale too. I'll just wait for mike's reasons and make them my own.

[mickill]

Because, even though Fishscale is a bit more consistent and (some might say) a tiny bit leaner (minus the skits), I think that 4:21 is just an overall more exciting album. I mean, neither album is a big stretch for either of them; they're still well within their comfort zones. But a lot of the Meth songs are stronger. I thought the album was refreshingly amped up. Ghost's album just didn't grab me the same way. I think that there are fewer weak tracks on Fishscale, but there were fewer exceptionally good songs also.

Besides, you'd have to be deaf if you think that Ghost put even a fraction of the effort into his writing that Meth did. Meth is lyrically on point from beginning to end. That's something the critics failed to acknowledge enough when they gave the album such a lukewarm response. Ghost is just on his usual nonsensical shit, which was exciting back when Supreme Clientele came out, but it's just getting a little stale these days. Seriously, how many times while listening to Fishscale are you just completely blown away by Ghost's verses?

[Mr Films]

once "9 Milli Bros" was over, Fishscale got boring quick.

[Auton]

fishscale doesnt have any full-fledged wack songs. 4:21 is full of them, and the beats aren't interesting at all. lets do this on a song by song basis (skipping though any bonus cuts and the skits besides the intro)

1. Return of Clyde Smith VS. Intro
Meth wins this one, because 1)he's rapping on it 2)the slowed down clyde voice is REALLY poorly rendered this time around. first minute or so of the meth track is pretty retarded, but he still wins

2.Shakey Dog VS. Is it Me?
Ghost wins. better beat, better lyrics, better performance. I HATE the beat for Is it Me, I couldn't pick it out of a Scott Storch lineup.

3.Kilo VS. Problem
Ghost wins. Much better beat, incredibly smooth delivery from both Ghost and Rae, awesome chorus. Problem is a super bland, nondescript Meth track.

4.The Champ VS. Somebody Fucked Up
Ghost again. SFU has a boring, faceless beat, and despite a horrendous intro, I love the beat for the Champ, which also has ghost's most clever lines on the album.

5.9 Milli Bros VS. Fallout
You guys are going to think I'm a moron for this one, but Meth wins this round. The chorus is pretty dumb, but I actually like Fallout alot. noticeable, cool, imagery-rich beat... 9 Milli Bros was dissappointing and is really just OK.

6.Beauty Jackson VS. Dirty Mef
Ghost wins, because of the creative J Dilla beat and the great, descriptive storytelling. I adore ODB, but Dirty Mef was as dissappointing to me as 9 Milli Bros, but with a really stupid beat. Dre and Erick Sermon Co-Produced this? Instantly on the bottom of the 10 beats either have ever made.

7.Crack Spot VS. 420
DAMN IT. I looove crackspot, but 420 is amazing. Meth wins. awesome, original beat, and what mickill called a "disgusting" flow. Best track Meth's been involved with since 'Blackout!' cool BIG sample too. Poor Crack Spot... I still love you

8.R.A.G.U VS. Let's Ride
Ghost wins. Good Verses from he and Rae, over a cinematic beat. Let's Ride is stupid. The end.

9.Whip you with a Strap VS. The Glide
Ghost. A very original song in terms of subject matter, good but not amazing beat, good performance by Ghost. The Glide is a pretty good song, and I like the beat, and performance. I say Ghost wins because of originality.

10.Back Like that VS Got to Have it
Back like that beats the living snot out of Got to have it. Ghost wins for sure. Easily my favorite crossover single in Rap, with a decent beat, funny lyrics, and a solid, catchy chorus. Did Storch produce Got to Have it? I can't remember, but it sounds like that song Eve did with Gwen Stefani, but in a bad way.

11.Be Easy VS. Say
Ghost. Be Easy is Hot. Say is stupid.

12.Clipse of Doom VS. Yah Meen
Meth wins. Yah Meen wipes the floor with most of Fishscale, with a huge, stomping beat and a very impressive turn by Fat Joe. Method Man rules the world. Clipse of Doom, is boring, instantly skippable and even more forgettable.

13.Jellyfish VS. Konichiwa Bitches
Meth wins. I love Konichiwa Bitches, like the beat and laughed when i heard the GZA sample (even though we all knew it was coming). Ghost on the otherhand, manages to rack up 2 stinkers in a row... the chorus sounds like something a local white rap group would do.

14.Dogs of War VS. Everything
Meth. Neither track is that great, but I at least don't feel the urge to skip Everything. Hattrick for Ghost.

15.Barbershop VS. Walk On
Meth. Barbershop is fun, to takes too long to get started, and Walk On is a certifiable heater. Love it. My personal favorite on 421.

16.Big Girl VS. Presidential MC
Ghost. I love Presidential MC, but I love Big Girl more... after all, Big Girl doesn't suffer from a wack RZA verse. I like the Ghost-rapping-over-an-entire-song thing anyway.

17.Underwater Vs. 4 Ever.
Ghost. I know some of you dont like underwater, but the synthezisers on 4 Ever make me want to kill myself over and over again. Besides, the lyrics on underwater are very fun to listen to.

18.Momma.
I love this song, but unfortunately its awesomeness is nearly cancelled out by the Stupid bonus cut. Won't count it.

so

Meth:7
Ghost:10

And overall, I prefer listening to Fishscale all the way through.

[adam_f]

The last verse of "Say" off Meth's album is on par with some of the best shit I've heard in a long time from a Wu-Tang member. After the Tical: Prequel debacle, Meth really needed to come back strong with the new one, and delivered. The punchlines are funnier that Ghost's, the production more exciting than Ghost's, and the whole album tighter than Ghost's. Seems like every other track on Fishscale was another skit.

I even like Masta Killa's "Made In Brooklyn" better than "Fishscale" Doubt many feel that way though.

[Auton]

Besides, you'd have to be deaf if you think that Ghost put even a fraction of the effort into his writing that Meth did. Meth is lyrically on point from beginning to end. That's something the critics failed to acknowledge enough when they gave the album such a lukewarm response. Ghost is just on his usual nonsensical shit, which was exciting back when Supreme Clientele came out, but it's just getting a little stale these days. Seriously, how many times while listening to Fishscale are you just completely blown away by Ghost's verses?

i couldn't disagree with you more. Both albums are returns to form, but I'd take beauty jackson over anything meth spit on 421, personally. And it's funny you mention the effort thing, when I think one of the things keeping Fishscale from being a GREAT album is the fact that Ghost tries too hard on the album. and nonsensical shit? do you know how to listen to lyrics? Only ones with what can conceivably have "nonsensical shit" would be "the champ" or "clipse of doom," and even those hold up thematically.




seriously though. "nonsense?" Fishscale is a concept album. and track by track it makes more sense than any of meth's punchline songs.

[Auton]

. Seems like every other track on Fishscale was another skit. .

you can plainly see that Fishscale still has more songs though. and the skits are tiny. Plus, like I just said, I'd still rather listen to 4 minutes of storytelling than endless punchlines, no matter how many puns meth can come up with.

[mickill]

While your track comparisons were for the most part surprisingly fair, you can't really go comparing Be Easy with Say. They're two completely different kinds of songs, obviously. If you took the 5 strongest tracks from each album and compared each with similar songs from the other, I think that Meth would come out on top. And while I would generally consider Fishscale the more consistent of the two, it doesn't have enough truly entertaining moments to sustain its full duration, in my opinion. With 4:21, I wished that Meth would have trimmed the fat, but with Fishscale there was just an overall lack of surprises.

As for listening to lyrics, yes I do know how to. If they fail to grab me, I'm not sweating it, though. Meth's lyrics jump out at me more; his flow is tighter; his wordplay is excellent. It's not really up for debate whether or not dude can rap well. On the other hand, the same can't really be said for Ghost. I personally think Ghost is a sick emcee. I love his style. But there are a lot of people who think he just spits sloppy, overly imaginative, unsubstantial shit, compensated for by a charasmatic flow. And while I don't agree, I can, to some degree, understand where they're coming from.

And I disagree with #4 and #16, which puts Meth in the lead. The album version of The Champ is gay and there is no way I would pick Big Girl over something as ferocious as Presidential MC.


P.S. lol @ u for calling Fishscale a concept album omg ur g@y

[Auton]

I dunno, opinions are opinions, but I still think ghost's stuff looks better on paper. method man on paper is kind of like "hmm. rappity rap music." I'm sure pretty much anybody you would show beauty jackson to would be impressed.

[mickill]

No, see, the kind of rapper you're describing is more like a LLoyd Banks or a Papoose; rappers without any real style or intricacy to their verses, just the occasional "hot line" or some clever punches. For the most part, these kinds of rappers suck. Meth doesn't fall in that category at all. His delivery, voice, writing and overall style is tight.

As far as Ghost goes, come on, man. That shit doesn't look good on paper. What are you talking about? The thing that makes Ghost's rapping so crazy is the way he spits it. Can you imagine Rakim doing Nutmeg? Or Jay-Z? Any of the supposed best rappers, for that matter. No. Because it would suck. But when Ghost recites lines like, "Hit Poughkepsie crispy chicken verbs throw up a stone richie" the shit somehow works. It's all in his delivery.

[g-mile7]

All across this board people say raps too predictable&Fishscale does what U want&U shit on it?Just like BE Im seein the same backlash.4:21 isn`t overal better in terms of lyrics.Fishscale,like Kingdom,shows the evolution/maturation of a writer(Ghost and Meth flow just as strong as ever)which puts him pass Meth.Meth,although the overal 2nd best Wu,is a polished verison of INS. Ghost nonsensical shit makes U think, on par of great Black laurettes as Jean Toomer (Im sure yall would hate Cane).

[g-mile7]

Doesnt look good on paper?Its on paper where U see how advanced his technique is.He's known as the soul of the Wu since he incorpates every rap style of the other 8 members.From the outrageous storytellin' (Shakey,Whip,Kilo) 2 punchlines (Champ, Clips) deep storytellin (Momma, Underwater, RAGU) even fuckin RB /rap(Back).Fishscale was more memorable, I guess if you have a short attention span Fishscale gets boring&"after 9milli" how ironic that gets borin after a Meth feature (Clips,RAGU borin?).

[Kid Presentable]

Presidential MC is ok. It kind of drags, and it was done on Tical. That dark, slow, drawn out "I'm the dopest" thing. Yeah, Ghost has done his thing to death, too. But cuts like 9 milli and Jellyfish I quite enjoy, and if they're weaker moments then they're pretty impressive ones.

4:21 is great because there's nothing better than a good Method Man album.

Fishcscale is better than them all because Ghost is a more entertaining MC to me. That's all. If you really want it broken down, Wu is winning, when we're pitting them against each other. I wasn't into Kingdom Come at all initially, and while I like it, I'd be mad as fuck if I'd paid for it. It's the bottom of that pile for me.

At the end of the day, the album is what it is, you can't change it. And what I interpret and absorb is how each M.C approaches the limitations of the set.

[ggirlballa]

currently i'm repeating lost one, my friend likes it too mostly cuz of the chorus

[cj hood]

title track's cool....other than that.......'yawn'.....