why are there people who think the democrats are some sort of political godsend?

[The Notorious LOL]

its like choosing between Ebola and HIV. Both shitty choices, but you dont get excited when the lesser of two evils infects you.

[fucktopgirl]

i agree, just about the same thing!

I mean it is not the political party who have controll anyway, is the corporations who sponsored them so...

[ToucanSpam]

What he says is true.

There are no serious options from the left so until that happens Americans just choose between the chick with the braided beard or the one with leprosy.

[Funkaloyd]

I actually think the Dems are worse than the Republicans from a strategic POV, but you cant blame people for believing them a godsend after 6 years of Bush.

[Funkaloyd]

Seruslhy, 6 years of that motherfucker.

[QueenAdrock]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm a proud Democrat, always have been, always will be. The Democrats haven't been up to par in the past when it comes to strategy and GETTING THEIR SHIT TOGETHER, but now things are lookin' up.

Proud to live in a blue state, bitches.

[Echewta]

I thought Bush was a political Godsend? He did use our tax payers dollars to go to churches.

Hmm...

[ToucanSpam]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm a proud Democrat, always have been, always will be. The Democrats haven't been up to par in the past when it comes to strategy and GETTING THEIR SHIT TOGETHER, but now things are lookin' up.

Proud to live in a blue state, bitches.
Socialism is better.:D

[QueenAdrock]

Canada isnt socialist...its more like limp dick capitalism..

[saz]

There are no serious options from the left

that's very true. america doesn't have a left, other than individuals such as bernie sanders, dennis kucinich and ralph nader. the democratic party is very moderate and even more so centre-right. for instance, i thought it was pretty funny how during the mid-term election campaign that the republicans and their blow-hard talking heads were playing the nancy pelosi leftist boogeyman card. pelosi was one of the first politicians to condemn chavez after his u.n. devil speech, she doesn't want to seek impeachment of bush/cheney, and is not in favour of universal health-care. and, it was the best and brightest of the democratic party who were responsible for hiroshima, nagasaki, and the vietnam war.

[ToucanSpam]

.

I never claimed Canada was socialist, I'm saying your country should consider attempting to get a serious option from the left.


...honestly I'm not ever sure why you'd even post that quote.

[DroppinScience]

As unfortunate as it is that the Dems aren't up to par (but I hope to be corrected in the near future), it isn't really a "choice between Ebola and HIV."

The popular sentiment of "they're the SAME thing" is very misleading, even if there are too many times when the Dems don't go out of their way to make themselves dramatically different from the GOP. I mean, one party wants to privatize social security. The other wants to maintain it. Shit like that alone means something.

Also remember: which party implimented the New Deal? And which one reversed all that was accomplished 50 years after the fact? Which party put in the 1964 Civil Rights Act?

Exactly.

[SobaViolence]

if democrats are on the left side of the political spectrum, than Canada is a Communist country.

the most moderate democrat wouldn't get much further than centre-right on the Canadian spectrum. maybe centre. and that's a big maybe.

[QueenAdrock]

I never claimed Canada was socialist, I'm saying your country should consider attempting to get a serious option from the left.


...honestly I'm not ever sure why you'd even post that quote.

Cuz it seemed like you were bragging about Canadian "socialism" which isn't uncommon amongs your peoples.

That and it's funny. :p

[SobaViolence]

and it's funny how you americans claim that you live in a democracy...

[yeahwho]

As unfortunate as it is that the Dems aren't up to par (but I hope to be corrected in the near future), it isn't really a "choice between Ebola and HIV."

The popular sentiment of "they're the SAME thing" is very misleading, even if there are too many times when the Dems don't go out of their way to make themselves dramatically different from the GOP. I mean, one party wants to privatize social security. The other wants to maintain it. Shit like that alone means something.

Also remember: which party implimented the New Deal? And which one reversed all that was accomplished 50 years after the fact? Which party put in the 1964 Civil Rights Act?

Exactly.
Some very good examples of differences between the two parties and the ideals of more vs. less goverment. As misleading as both Republicans and Democrats are in their respective platforms, at least one is slightly more accessible than the other. I don't think the democrats are a "Godsend", the democrats are more like "Plan A" vs. "Plan B".

Bush will go down without a doubt the worse president in American History, this has damaged the republicans and will continue to damage them for many years to come, without a doubt.

[DroppinScience]

if democrats are on the left side of the political spectrum, than Canada is a Communist country.

the most moderate democrat wouldn't get much further than centre-right on the Canadian spectrum. maybe centre. and that's a big maybe.

One thing you're forgetting: it's not just "moderate" or "conservative" Democrats. There are also "liberal" or "left" as well.

A Democrat of the Dennis Kucinich variety would be right at home in the NDP Party in Canada.

Most mainstream Democrats would fall under the Liberal Party of Canada, methinks. With maaaaaaaaybe a few of the more conservative folks ending up in the Conservative Party of Canada, but that's just Joe Lieberman. :p

[The Notorious LOL]

Which party put in the 1964 Civil Rights Act?

Exactly.


bad example basing on a political party alone. A few select Democrats pushed the issue but historically the Democratic party pre 1960s was the pro slavery party.

[ToucanSpam]

Cuz it seemed like you were bragging about Canadian "socialism" which isn't uncommon amongs your peoples.

That and it's funny. :p

Welllllllllllllll:p


We at least have a third party option...it's lost a lot of lustre in 70 years, but hope spring eternal right?


RIGHT?:(

[Documad]

I get frustrated by politics for a lot of reasons and I think you have to be half crazy to want to go through all the shit to try and get elected. But I've worked for politicians (from both parties) and they mean well. The system needs fixing but it's a pretty good system overall. I don't see a better one.

While there are good and bad people in both parties and sometimes my fellow democrats make me want to pull my hair out, I think it's silly to say that there is no difference. There is a huge difference. I wasn't excited when I voted for Gore in 2000, believe me. But looking back on it now, can you imagine all of the horrible things that have happened in the past six years that would have come out differently if he had been sworn in instead of Bush? Now multiply that by 100 because most people have no idea what the government is doing. The executive (president/governor/mayor) makes so many decisions via administrative agencies that you never hear about. And in 2004, even if you think that Kerry was a tool as a human being, he had a different position from Bush on almost every issue. There was a clear choice.

The democratic congress can't work miracles. The president is still in charge of most of the decisions that matter to me. But look at what's already happened! And they haven't even started yet! Rumsfeld resigned. The president is acting like he might try to listen to the opinions of others. I'm very jaded but I got excited when Bolton resigned. He resigned because of the new congress (that was never going to confirm him). Too bad the president got to appoint those supreme court justices before the democrats took the senate though.

[Pres Zount]

Dems and republicans are both sides of the same coin, but I do agree with what dropin' said.

[FunkyHiFi]

IMO we need a common-sense & truly moderate party to come back to power. Right AND left extremists scare the shit out of me.

The executive (president/governor/mayor) makes so many decisions via administrative agencies that you never hear about.SO VERY TRUE. All the twisted & almost-evil crap that gets approved via simple memos from one office to another is unbelievable.

[Ali]

UK's no better. Labour and Tory are basically the same party. Tories has twice helped Blair push stuff through parliament when his own Backbenchers wouldn't help him.

What a bag of shite. If the SNP win, I'm moving to Ecosse!

[D_Raay]

Unfortunately, the interests of the people are marginalized by Democrats for the sake of electability.

It should not be so, but this country was bought and sold years ago and there isn't much we can do about it. We have owners. Simple as that. Politicians are just there to give us the illusion of choice. We don't have any.

[saz]

Most mainstream Democrats would fall under the Liberal Party of Canada, methinks. With maaaaaaaaybe a few of the more conservative folks ending up in the Conservative Party of Canada, but that's just Joe Lieberman. :p

not even. the canadian conservative party fully endorses and supports universal health-care, a concept which most 'liberal' democrats won't support.

[DroppinScience]

not even. the canadian conservative party fully endorses and supports universal health-care, a concept which most 'liberal' democrats won't support.

It's the political climate you're brought up in. Conservatives here will support it because they'd never ever make it into the Prime Minister's Office if they oppose it.

The climate of universal health care seen as something bad in America (even though, apparently the idea itself would be supported by the majority of Americans, yes, that's actually true) prompts the Dems to take the "safe" position.

[Schmeltz]

The Canadian Conservative Party doesn't "fully endorse" the idea of universal health care or there wouldn't be nearly so much discussion about the few private-for-profit clinics that do operate in this country. They only endorse the idea as far as they need to in order to maintain what popular support they have.

[saz]

The climate of universal health care seen as something bad in America (even though, apparently the idea itself would be supported by the majority of Americans, yes, that's actually true) prompts the Dems to take the "safe" position.

well, they tried in '93, when they had majorities in both houses of congress (remember hillary holding up that health-card?), but still failed. there's also gay marriage....conservatives like john baird support it, and it's expected that ten conservative cabinet ministers will vote not to re-open the issue. meanwhile, howard dean went for civil unions in vermont. even obama doesn't support same-sex marriage.

[DroppinScience]

meanwhile, howard dean went for civil unions in vermont. even obama doesn't support same-sex marriage.

As far as I'm concerned, civil unions are just as good as the real thing. You have the same protection and rights, so what's the diff?

[QueenAdrock]

Because a lot of people see the titles as "civil union" and "marriage" as just another way of saying "You two will always be different." I see it as an appeasement of both parties; I don't think we'll ever get America to approve of gay marriages (it's just not in the cards) but we CAN get very close to it and achieve the same thing in every way, aside from titles. It's a "I'll take what I can get" kind of situation.

[saz]

the 'diff' being that they can't be married. 'civil unions' is a total patronizing cop-out, slap in the face insult. i'm not trying to pick on dean here, because i like the guy, but referring to them under the law as 'civil unions' because they happen to be gay is 100% bullshit, and reinforces the belief of second-class citizenship, therefore tossing the concept of equality out the window. i think dean and obama take those stances because they know that america isn't ready for gay marriage yet, which obama actually stated a while ago on larry king. my point is that the media, angry right-wing blowhards and other talking heads label democrats as 'liberal this, liberal that' or 'far left', when in fact it's clearly not the case.

[Documad]

It's only been a couple of years since the US Supreme Court decided that states couldn't throw gay people in jail for having sex. Things are moving fast. There will be full rights for gay people to get married in my lifetime.

[ToucanSpam]

It's only been a couple of years since the US Supreme Court decided that states couldn't throw gay people in jail for having sex. Things are moving fast. There will be full rights for gay people to get married in my lifetime.

I would dare say my lifetime, possibly not yours.

Things are moving fast, though. I can remember an episode of the old Degrassi episode that bashed the crap out of homosexuality and now in the new series one of the main chracters is gay and such. So, even in the media the tone towards homosexuality has changed.

[sam i am]

On the general theme of "separate but equal" that the civil unions vs. gay marriage thing brings up....

Has anyone read about the resegregation of schools in the United States?

[SobaViolence]

since legalizing same-sex marriage in 2005 only 12,000 marriages have taken place in Canada.

whats the fucking deal?

thats a fraction of total weddings, leave them alone.

[DroppinScience]

since legalizing same-sex marriage in 2005 only 12,000 marriages have taken place in Canada.

whats the fucking deal?

thats a fraction of total weddings, leave them alone.

They sound like the rest of us... unable to commit. :p

[QueenAdrock]

:mad: :mad:

[yeahwho]

:mad: :mad: I didn't know those angry smilies were gay.

Seems like most the creepy fucks who worry about legal gay marriage are societies real problem makers.

[Documad]

I would dare say my lifetime, possibly not yours.
Unless I meet an untimely death, I'm pretty sure it will happen in my lifetime. I don't know if you can understand the changes I've already seen. One of my best friends used to be in the closet and now she's out at her job and she's married to her long term partner. The state doesn't recognize it, but her employer does -- full partner benefits. Most large corporations have already recognized gay unions. No workplace that thinks of itself as progressive could fail to provide partner benefits.

It used to be nearly impossible for gay couples to adopt and now I know about a dozen who have. When these people start splitting up, the courts and the government will have to get involved. Gay divorce and gay child custudy disputes will be recognized before gay marriage. But it's coming.

When I was little, it was scandalous for a white person to marry a black one. And you were trash if you were unmarried and had a kid. There's no turning back the clock on any of this stuff.

[ToucanSpam]

Unless I meet an untimely death, I'm pretty sure it will happen in my lifetime. I don't know if you can understand the changes I've already seen. One of my best friends used to be in the closet and now she's out at her job and she's married to her long term partner. The state doesn't recognize it, but her employer does -- full partner benefits. Most large corporations have already recognized gay unions. No workplace that thinks of itself as progressive could fail to provide partner benefits.

It used to be nearly impossible for gay couples to adopt and now I know about a dozen who have. When these people start splitting up, the courts and the government will have to get involved. Gay divorce and gay child custudy disputes will be recognized before gay marriage. But it's coming.

When I was little, it was scandalous for a white person to marry a black one. And you were trash if you were unmarried and had a kid. There's no turning back the clock on any of this stuff.

Good point, things have come a long way. I didn't think of it in these terms before...

I didn't mean to make it sound like you were some kind of old battle ax either, Documad.:p

[SobaViolence]

i was forced to marry a gay last week...

the evangelicals were right all along!:mad:

[sam i am]

i was forced to marry a gay last week...

the evangelicals were right all along!:mad:

Was it any good?:confused: