political stuff

[Nerd Fight]

So now that the general opinion is that George Dubya is a moron and dangerously inept in the role of the US president, looking back what do you think about the inclusion of the anti-bush / politcal statements on TT5B ?

Personally, I think it was good that they spoke out against the disaster that was just beginning at that time. If they speak out about stuff that's bugging them on the next album too, that's A-OK with me.

[ggirlballa]

it wasn't that hard hitting though Jay-Z spoke out on "Minority Report" and that 1 song was more hard hitting than anything on TT5B also "Bin Laden" by Immortal Technique & Mos Def was harder too


if they're going to do politcal ryhmes its okay with me. or at least have 1 song with all their political ryhmes in it instead of dropping it randomly all over the album

thats my opinion

[Brother McDuff]

it wasn't that hard hitting though Jay-Z spoke out on "Minority Report" and that 1 song was more hard hitting than anything on TT5B also "Bin Laden" by Immortal Technique & Mos Def was harder too


if they're going to do politcal ryhmes its okay with me. or at least have 1 song with all their political ryhmes in it instead of dropping it randomly all over the album

thats my opinion

though I don't agree 100% with your statement (I think the longevity and credibility of the beasties speaks louder than that of Jay-Z, Mos Def, and Immortal Technique combined, despite how "hard" the track is), I do agree that their political shots would have been better received if they were more concentrated within designated songs. although songs like "Time to Build" and "We Got The" are point blank bodies of work on the political tip, there were alot of great tracks on TT5B that had dynamite lyrics up until the point where they'd drop an unprecedented jab at the government.

I'd prefer they keep their normal-topic songs separate from their political views, for it only takes one Bush comment in the middle of a track like "Thats It Thats All" to kind of dampen the fun, for example.

[Lex Diamonds]

though I don't agree 100% with your statement (I think the longevity and credibility of the beasties speaks louder than that of Jay-Z, Mos Def, and Immortal Technique combined, despite how "hard" the track is)
Sorry but you're just being a fanboy there. They may not be the Beastie Boys' equals, but those artists are just as (if not more) credible in hip-hop as the Boys, and in my opinion, better writers. Have you heard Minority Report? It is definitely a more significant political statement than anything on TT5B, and you can actually feel the emotion in his voice. It's pretty powerful. Open Letter To NYC was steeped in loyalty and patriotism to the Boys' home, but it still had the slightly goofy light-hearted Beastie Boy flavour, which although unique and a large part of their appeal, is not so well suited to political statements.

Here's a small comparison:

Time To Build:

If you don't like the news then press eject
Baby Davis getting older can't take a rain check
It's time to let'em know what we expect
Stop building SUV's strung out on OPEC
Hold up wait up you know we come correct
You wanna change things up, well hey just get set
It's easier to sit back than stick out your neck
It's easier to break things than build it correct
We've got a president we didn't elect
The Kyoto treaty he decided to neglect
And still the US just wants to flex
Keep doin' that wop we gonna break our necks

It takes a second to wreck it
It takes time to build
We gots ta chill


Minority Report:

Wouldn't you loot, if you didn't have the loot?
Baby needed food and you were stuck on the roof
Helicopter swooped down just to get a scoop
Through his telescopic lens but he didn't scoop you
The next five days, no help ensued
They called you a refugee because you seek refuge
The commander-in-chief just flew by
Did he stop? No, though he had a couple seats
Just proved jet blue he's not
Jet flew by the spot
What if he ran out of jet fuel and just dropped
Huh, That woulda been something to watch
Helicopters doing fly-bys to take a couple of shots
Couple of portraits then ignore him
He'd be just another Bush surrounded by a couple orchids
Poor kids just 'cause they were poor kids
Left 'em on they porches same old story in New Orleans
Silly rappers, because we got a couple Porsches
MTV stopped by to film our fortresses
We forget the unfortunate
Sure I ponied up a mil, but I didn't give my time
So in reality I didn't give a dime, aw damn
I just put my moneys in the hands of the same people that left my people stranded
Nothin' but a bandit
Left them folks abandoned
Damn, that money that we gave was just a band-aid
Can't say we better off than we was before
In synopsis this is my minority report


The anti-Bush stuff on TT5B wasn't particularly original, and contrary to what the thread starter says the problem had already been there and widely discussed in the media for four years. I would prefer it if the Boys kept their political statements to stuff like "fuck war!" and "let's see some love up in this muhfukka" and keep to what they're good at (writing doodoo rhymes). I'm not dissing the Boys at all, just saying that some of their political statements are misguided and I disagree with you saying you want more of them on the next album.

[Laver1969]

2 1/2 years later I still love TT5B. The political stuff is still relevant because most people think Bush is doing a terrible job.

The true test will be in 10 or 20 years when Bush is long gone...it'll be interesting to see how those political lyrics are perceived. And how the songs hold up.

[Documad]

I've thought about this a bit lately. The Beasties took some shit for being against the war when most of the country was for it.

And some people should apologize to that Dixie Chick too.

[JohnnyChavello]

Lil' Wayne, "Georgia...Bush"; Killer Mike, "That's Life"; DJ Shadow and David Banner, "Seein' Thangs" are all great, recent political hip-hop songs.

[pm0ney]

I love TT5B 'cuz its a Beasties record, but I'm not a big fan at all of the political rhymes spread throughout the cd. I'd prefer them to release that political stuff on b-sides or on an extended EP or something like that. But, I mean thats just my humble opinion...they can do whatever the fuck they want and me and everyone else on here will scoop it up the first day it comes out.

[Loppfessor]

it wasn't that hard hitting though Jay-Z spoke out on "Minority Report" and that 1 song was more hard hitting than anything on TT5B also "Bin Laden" by Immortal Technique & Mos Def was harder too


if they're going to do politcal ryhmes its okay with me. or at least have 1 song with all their political ryhmes in it instead of dropping it randomly all over the album

thats my opinion

Very well said! (y)

[YoungRemy]

Sorry but you're just being a fanboy there.


so if I dont agree with your view, can I be a fanboy too? (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=70478&highlight=fanboy)

[cj hood]

Bush is a dope.....we got that point when they dropped WGM.....they didn't need to say it on (almost) every track on TT5B......

i don't mind the politix if its said once and cleverly........

[roosta]

i think they should say what they like.

If i dont like it, i wont listen. I can do this with music.

[dave790]

I would be disappointed if the Beastie Boys did NOT say something about how fucked up things are in the world now on the new album. I hope every song makes a statement. Their willingness to stand up and say something about the world's affairs on TT5B is why I got into them after forgetting about them during the long break after Hello Nasty.

I admire artists who are willing to make social and political comments with their music. So few artists are willing to do that now. Even if you disagree with the Beastie Boys' politics, as I know some people here do, you have to admire and respect them for having the balls to say something.

I am on that wave length. Besides, along with the above I think they themselves explained it really well (not that they had to expalin themselves) in how they felt they had to comment on the current situation, as it was all stuff they felt strongly about.

There's a million other points too. For instance it's not the first time they've shown themselves to be politically conscious in their career. And it's not like they jumped on the Bush-baiting bandwagon... In A World Gone Mad pre-dates loads of anti-Bush American music.

So I never really got people's resentment of TT5B's political content. They can rap about what they want on the new record, just as they've always done, be it doo doo non-stop or some more on the fucked up world as you put it. I expect the latter.

i think they should say what they like.

If i dont like it, i wont listen. I can do this with music.

[Brother McDuff]

Sorry but you're just being a fanboy there.

Sorry, but 6,000+ posts on the message board cries fanboy a little louder than my expressing the opinion that the Beasties have more credibility and longevity than Jay-Z or Mos Def.

They're not limited to hip-hop, by a long shot. They're more accomplished and span more audiences.

i think they should say what they like.

If i dont like it, i wont listen. I can do this with music.


well put.

[Kid Presentable]

Minority Report was Jay doing some new subject matter. Because most of his shit is played out. And I don't see how hard-hitting it is. It's definitely a good cut, but the beat is crazy generic. What's so hard-hitting? The whispering?

There's an awful lot of presumption going on. Remember, the road to Auschwitz was paved with apathy.

[cj hood]

Bush is a dope.....we got that point when they dropped WGM.....they didn't need to say it on (almost) every track on TT5B......

i don't mind the politix if its said once and cleverly........


its the same thing on how they said "break of dawn" 1000X on HN......its just to repetitive......

[Nerd Fight]

I agree that if they're really pissed off about something they should write a track that sounds really pissed off. Just because I'd like to hear it. I think the closest they got to that was Sabotage. Or, well, maybe Heart Attack Man.

[Laver1969]

I agree that if they're really pissed off about something they should write a track that sounds really pissed off. Just because I'd like to hear it. I think the closest they got to that was Sabotage. Or, well, maybe Heart Attack Man.

That's a good point. I just don't want it to appear they are trying too hard to be pissed off...one of their key ingredients is humor so they'll probably use what works best for them.

[Lex Diamonds]

Jesus Christ I know this is the Beastie Boys Message Board but you have to think objectively about these things. I do agree with their political stance, but I don't think their music is suited to it. That's what I'm saying. Plus if you look at the longrun, it won't age very well. No one's gonna understand that shit about the Kyoto treaty and OPEC in 20 years time.

Some of you need to get off the Boys' dicks and not just spring into action as soon as someone says something critical about them.

[Lex Diamonds]

Sorry, but 6,000+ posts on the message board cries fanboy a little louder than my expressing the opinion that the Beasties have more credibility and longevity than Jay-Z or Mos Def.
Er... no it doesn't. I'm looking at the bigger picture of music, they are as credible in hip-hop, that's what I'm saying. I don't come to this board only to discuss the Beastie Boys, I also use it to learn about other music and to kill time. A large portion of my posts are probably about Jay-Z and Mos Def and similar artists. Attacking post count is a very immature way to reply to a serious and considered suggestion like mine.

[dave790]

Jesus Christ I know this is the Beastie Boys Message Board but you have to think objectively about these things. I do agree with their political stance, but I don't think their music is suited to it. That's what I'm saying. Plus if you look at the longrun, it won't age very well. No one's gonna understand that shit about the Kyoto treaty and OPEC in 20 years time.

Some of you need to get off the Boys' dicks and not just spring into action as soon as someone says something critical about them.

If I don't agree with you it's not because there's some deep urge to spring to the Beasties defence every time something remotely critical is said about them. You care about how that shit sounds in 20 years...fine, fair enough. I, on the other hand, don't. Do you think I get every single cultural reference on Paul's Boutique? No, but it doesn't prevent it from being one of my favourite records. Stuff like the Kyoto Treaty which you mentioned is just another reference in a song, only on a political spectrum relevant to the time. Why should that be any different?

Specifically speaking anyway, anyone in the future who knows their history of that period, e.g. reasons Bush faced opposition or why he faced unpopulararity amongst some people would know that anyway. You could have used a better example.

I think their music can be suited to just about anything, or what they've attempted so far. Look at the big beats and the obnoxiousness of Licensed to Ill. That's a very generalised way to look at that album yes, but who'd have thought the Beasties music would have ever been suited to songs about Buddhahood (if that flies) and free tibet/world peace (circa Ill Communication). In my opinion, they grew then artistically and musically, and whilst TT5B was far more politcally stanced on some tracks, I thought it all flowed rather well.

That's my opinion. Call me a fanboy or on the Beasties dick, but it won't change a thing in my mind. And, on that note, I'm as objectional as the next person. But I don't need to be told that I have to be objectional by anyone no matter what it's regarding. In the Beasties case, I think they do, and have done, most things well. It's not too difficult to grasp.

[Documad]

Plus if you look at the longrun, it won't age very well. No one's gonna understand that shit about the Kyoto treaty and OPEC in 20 years time.
I agree with this part. I am fine with artists making political statements, but it usually dates the song or album. It's a rare political song that sounds fresh 10 years later. Just consider most of the hippie shit from 30 years ago.

[Kid Presentable]

I agree with this part. I am fine with artists making political statements, but it usually dates the song or album. It's a rare political song that sounds fresh 10 years later. Just consider most of the hippie shit from 30 years ago.
I don't really think the point of it is to age. If you capture the feeling of the moment, you could gladly forego any future relevance, perhaps.

[cj hood]

Stand Together is a political track that was done right and will definitely stand the test of time........

[gorilla]

Give me a break with this "I love them for standing up and saying something".

All of that politcal garbage on tt5b was obnoxious, crass, and immature.

Please now, sure you can speak out - but do so not like a 13 year old.

C'mon now look at David Bowie for instance -

And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They're quite aware of what they're going through

4 lines capture a generation with eloquence.

If your going to stand up and speak about real shit, you can't do it half-assed.

They're youth is gone and that passion has faded with every album since Ill Communication.

[Laver1969]

Give me a break with this "I love them for standing up and saying something".

All of that politcal garbage on tt5b was obnoxious, crass, and immature.

Please now, sure you can speak out - but do so not like a 13 year old.

C'mon now look at David Bowie for instance -

And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They're quite aware of what they're going through

4 lines capture a generation with eloquence.

If your going to stand up and speak about real shit, you can't do it half-assed.

They're youth is gone and that passion has faded with every album since Ill Communication.

^^Perhaps you should join the David Bowie messageboard then.

And what exactly is David Bowie trying to say? What generation did he capture with those four lines?

[Kid Presentable]

Stand Together is a political track that was done right and will definitely stand the test of time........
I guess. But isn't it more about finding oneself, and unifying people?

[Lex Diamonds]

Documad, hood and gorilla understand what I'm talking about.

And Laver is one of those morons I was talking about who will blindly jump to the Boys' defence even if it makes them look ignorant. You're trying to discredit David Bowie just because somebody said the Beastie Boys aren't so good at political songs... good luck with that.

[roosta]

Plus if you look at the longrun, it won't age very well. No one's gonna understand that shit about the Kyoto treaty and OPEC in 20 years time.
.

Surely Jigga is doing the same thing with Minority Report? He's talking about a very specific set of circumstances also...will that not also age?

It seems to me the issue with some people is not the beastie's being political but being political about specific issues. As Yauch said they knew they ran the risk of being outdated in years to come, but that was the tradeoff. I respect artists way more who speak their mind then those who don't. WIll it be dated, or will it be a document of the times? Have Public Enemy dated? Has Bob Dylan's "Hurricane"? Its still great music.

I like songs like Stand Together which arnt overtly or specifically political but at the same time sometimes you need to name and shame. Its one thing to say "lets unify...fight the good fight" and its a nice song we can all enjoy and fit to our needs but its also another to say "he is wrong,this is fucked up" and define your targets. Music needs both, and theres not reason why the beasties can't do both.

I think the problem may be when the beastie's name and shame like that it makes it harder for some people to fit it into their world vision.

[cj hood]

"well I figured out who makes the crack/it's the suckers with the badges and the blue jackets"

vs.

"cuz george w. got nuthin on me/we got to take the power from he"

2 political statements.......one's wack, one is not.....wake up yo!

[roosta]

"well I figured out who makes the crack/it's the suckers with the badges and the blue jackets"

vs.

"cuz george w. got nuthin on me/we got to take the power from he"

2 political statements.......one's wack, one is not.....wake up yo!

are you talking about the quality of the rhyme or the naming of specific political figures?

[cj hood]

are you talking about the quality of the rhyme or the naming of specific political figures?

i'm talkin about being political but with some skill.....and not beating us over the head about the same topic......

[roosta]

i'm talkin about being political but with some skill.....and not beating us over the head about the same topic......

I think the beastie's do it with skill personally.

[Laver1969]

Documad, hood and gorilla understand what I'm talking about.

And Laver is one of those morons I was talking about who will blindly jump to the Boys' defence even if it makes them look ignorant. You're trying to discredit David Bowie just because somebody said the Beastie Boys aren't so good at political songs... good luck with that.

What? I'm not trying to do anything to David Bowie. I was trying to understand what gorilla was talking about.

Personally, I wouldn't miss any political references or messages. That's not why I love the Beasties' music. I love their sense of humor and attitude.

And Padster, I thought you were too cool to post in BG.

[Lex Diamonds]

Yeah, I just thought I'd grace you losers with my overwhelming awesomeness.

"well I figured out who makes the crack/it's the suckers with the badges and the blue jackets"

vs.

"cuz george w. got nuthin on me/we got to take the power from he"

2 political statements.......one's wack, one is not.....wake up yo!
Yeah, that's hit the nail on the head for me. The goofy political rhymes on TT5B serve no purpose except to show the world that the Beastie Boys don't like George Bush. Which is no surprise really, given their left-of-centre views and general disdain for the establishment. They certainly won't change anything or fire previously apathetic people into action against the government. All they do achieve is ruining the fun vibe of a song and making it sound kinda forced.

[roosta]

The goofy political rhymes on TT5B serve no purpose except to show the world that the Beastie Boys don't like George Bush.

Maybe that's supposed to be their only purpose ...to...express...the...feelings...of....the..musi cian...??

radical concept....

anyway, how can you say they won't fire an apathetic person to do something? there's no reason why not.

[Brother McDuff]

I just don't see where some people on the board come off with the idea that they know what's right or wrong, smart or not smart, or respectable or not with what the Beastie Boys choose to say and do in their music. I'm sure they know what's okay and not okay for them, surprisingly even moreso than their many self-righteous message board posters. If you're not digging a song, just don't listen to it. I dislike the political songs just as much as the next guy, but at the same time I think it speaks loudly for their character and sincerity in that they obviously sacrificed a certain level of "coolness" or "suaveness" to speak their mind and stick to their guns.

Sure, other artists may get deeper or more metaphoric when it comes to addressing such issues, but that's not the beasties' style. They say what's on their mind straight up when they rhyme, so why pretend to be on a style they're not. Maybe if it were a little more textured and creative groove like "bodisattva vow" or "the update" with a message that would call for a little less frankness, but with a beat like "time to build" or any other on TT5b, whatcha see is whatcha get, there's no mystery or room for misunderstanding the lyrics: we're saying something and this is what it is.

[gorilla]

^^Perhaps you should join the David Bowie messageboard then.

And what exactly is David Bowie trying to say? What generation did he capture with those four lines?

Believe you me, I would be on the Bowie Message board if Bowie was responsible for Paul's Boutique.

If you can't figure that one out, I can't help ya. point blank their political banter is sub-par.

[Documad]

I don't really think the point of it is to age. If you capture the feeling of the moment, you could gladly forego any future relevance, perhaps.
Yes, that's a choice an artist could make. I've never cared for that kind of music myself. I like the stuff that is less specific and lives on. The Beatles' Revolution still sounds fresh to me, because every era has a bunch of fake leaders that resemble the worst of the hippies. A lot of 1970s soul music still has relevance to me as well. Our society still isn't fair.

There are some time-capsule songs that are dated but still good, like CSN&Y's Ohio, because they makes you think you can tell what it would have been like to have been there. Prince's Sign O the Times does that for me, but I may be alone in that, because he was talking about things that were happening in my city at the time.

Most of the time, if I really love a band, I wish they would never discuss politics. Because the musicians I like tend to be really bad at expressing themselves in a serious, political format. One of the dumbest interviews I ever heard involved three of the guys from Radiohead, and I love Radiohead. And while I probably agree with Yauch on just about every political issue, he said some really dumb shit in the interviews in 2004. He says shallow things that sound like what my dumber brother says. Perhaps that's because serious political statements don't work as one liners, or because the shitty quality of music journalists plus lack of access to artists makes for very shallow discussions. It's surprising to me that as obviously brilliant as the three Beasties are and as quick-witted as they are, they are (to me) fairly inarticulate when they discuss politics. But I also think that they have the right to use their soapbox and god bless em for caring enough to try. If I had a soapbox, I'd use it too.


I'm missing the point about David Bowie. I think he's only political in that he made it safer for bisexuals to express themselves. I've never liked that particular song -- it's always sounded quaint to me -- even when I was a kid. I love Young Americans though -- it references Richard Nixon but it's still not dated.

[Documad]

P.S. To my ears, All Lifestyles works better as a political song than the more obvious political songs on TT5B. Tolerance is always timely.

[Laver1969]

Believe you me, I would be on the Bowie Message board if Bowie was responsible for Paul's Boutique.

If you can't figure that one out, I can't help ya. point blank their political banter is sub-par.

So you're on this messageboard simply because of PB? Ok.

[Laver1969]

Cosignin' to the Doc. (y)

[Lex Diamonds]

Maybe that's supposed to be their only purpose ...to...express...the...feelings...of....the..musi cian...??
"We Got The power to make a difference
We Got The power to make a change"

[Laver1969]

Getting political was never a plan for the Beastie Boys MCs when they hit the studio to record To the Five Boroughs. It just happened.

"It's kind of like, just events happening in our immediate world so it was where we felt compelled to go," Mike says.

- From an interview with the Herald Sun dated January 11, 2007.

[gorilla]

"We Got The power to make a difference
We Got The power to make a change"
If ever a sucky sequel to the Breakfast Club was to come out, this should be the opening line.

[dave790]

I just don't see where some people on the board come off with the idea that they know what's right or wrong, smart or not smart, or respectable or not with what the Beastie Boys choose to say and do in their music. I'm sure they know what's okay and not okay for them, surprisingly even moreso than their many self-righteous message board posters. If you're not digging a song, just don't listen to it. I dislike the political songs just as much as the next guy, but at the same time I think it speaks loudly for their character and sincerity in that they obviously sacrificed a certain level of "coolness" or "suaveness" to speak their mind and stick to their guns.

Sure, other artists may get deeper or more metaphoric when it comes to addressing such issues, but that's not the beasties' style. They say what's on their mind straight up when they rhyme, so why pretend to be on a style they're not. Maybe if it were a little more textured and creative groove like "bodisattva vow" or "the update" with a message that would call for a little less frankness, but with a beat like "time to build" or any other on TT5b, whatcha see is whatcha get, there's no mystery or room for misunderstanding the lyrics: we're saying something and this is what it is.

Spot on

[YoungRemy]

"dont be afraid to be yourself"

[b-grrrlie]

And wasn't the whole Milarepa/Tibet thing quite political statement as well?!

[cj hood]

people are missin the point...i don't care what they rap about it.....just do it skillfully.....the Bush line in That It was not done skillfully......

RRNN was political.......and a pretty solid track!