People in the Army

[Kid Presentable]

Disclaimer: Lots of military types around here. Not trying to offend any of them.

I think when people say they want to join the army "Well, you're going to get killed ". I guess there's the leadership/self-fulfilment angle that works for some. But it's kind of a pity I feel, that these people want to gamble their lives. I suppose it's like smoking.

I wonder what you all think, and whether you could enlighten me a little.

[Pres Zount]

If you join the army, you are going to get your head blown off. It doesn't matter if it's hard, or if it's soft. It doesn't matter if it's with an M16, because if you are in the army, well, you won't live past the age of eighteen.

[Kid Presentable]

If you join the army, you are going to get your head blown off. It doesn't matter if it's hard, or if it's soft. It doesn't matter if it's with an M16, because if you are in the army, well, you won't live past the age of eighteen.
Is that a reference? Or is that what you think? Sorry, I don't know. :o

I was talking to this dude today who said he wanted to join the U.S Army to get a football scholarship (Australian mind, so the plan is fucked from the get-go). I told him that hed be likely dumped in Iraq and killed fairly quickly. That's pretty much a foregone conclusion, no?

Edit: Oh, it rhymes. Like a song.

[na§tee]

well, not everyone who joins the army is in the infantry. there are many different roles, obviously.

my dad was an engineer and he helped design the first warrior tanks! GO TEAM STEWART! YEEAHHHH KILL DOSE BITCHEZ! ahem.

anyway, he had to go and, like, um, consult on how to fix 'em and.. stuff in various places. he was in the falklands war, but all the action he tells me he saw was bringing home lots and lots of pictures of penguins. he says when he came home i was in my little house thingy (what on earth are they called?) and i was like "who the fuck are you?" well, not quite, but you get the jist.

anyway, then the job became less remaining fit and maybe killing people and more designing and engineering and childhood memories of smelling of oil and mechanic shit, so he got fat and probably wouldn't be able to outrun many people. my boyfriend says he is scared of my dad because he "knows how to kill a man" but i highly doubt it. it's the army, not the secret service.

oh yeah, i've been in a tank before, it was fun.

[Randetica]

why would anyone join the army?

only makes sense when you want to get killed, kill, money and/or protect your country

laaame

no army = no wars

only pussies who keep fighting each other with sticks and used toilet paper

[Kid Presentable]

My Dad flew in WW2 and bombed the shit out of Dresden, but I was never taught that war was great or glorious. It was just a different time, where young people weren't able to complain or pontificate about what was 'right' and 'wrong'. You just did what had to be done.

Just sayin.

[Randetica]

My Dad flew in WW2 and bombed the shit out of Dresden, but I was never taught that war was great or glorious. It was just a different time, where young people weren't able to complain or pontificate about what was 'right' and 'wrong'. You just did what had to be done.

Just sayin.

ahh good times when wars and killings had class

[na§tee]

um, my dad didn't join the army because he wanted to kill anyone or be a patriotic asshole, not that there is anything wrong with protecting your country.

he joined the army because he is a good engineer and they offered him more than any man of his age from the isle of freaking lewis could have wished for back whenever he first entered there. they look after you in the army, and it truly is a career for life, if you want it to be (he retired though and got his pension and he heads the transport department back home now), and they are very few and far between nowadays.

i'm not my dad's number one fan by any means but i strongly dislike this negative opinion that everyone in the army is a trigger-happy nutbar.

[Kid Presentable]

i'm not my dad's number one fan by any means but i strongly dislike this negative opinion that everyone in the army is a trigger-happy nutbar.
Nobody is saying that, are they?

If I'm being honest, there have been microseconds where I've though that if I could get into the army, I could swing a career. But it's not really in me. I don't even really want to be mixed up at all in the bombing of places (tax dollar excluded :mad: ).

[abcdefz]

why would anyone join the army?

only makes sense when you want to get killed, kill, money and/or protect your country

laaame

no army = no wars

only pussies who keep fighting each other with sticks and used toilet paper



Don't forget about conscription. In some countries, service in the army is mandatory.

[Randetica]

um, my dad didn't join the army because he wanted to kill anyone or be a patriotic asshole, not that there is anything wrong with protecting your country.

he joined the army because he is a good engineer and they offered him more than any man of his age from the isle of freaking lewis could have wished for back whenever he first entered there. they look after you in the army, and it truly is a career for life, if you want it to be (he retired though and got his pension and he heads the transport department back home now), and they are very few and far between nowadays.

i'm not my dad's number one fan by any means but i strongly dislike this negative opinion that everyone in the army is a trigger-happy nutbar.

but he supported the killing with his magical hands..

and my grandpa actually killed people, russians from what i know
my other grandpa was part of the aerial war but he never had to throw down bombs

[Kid Presentable]

Don't forget about conscription. In some countries, service in the army is mandatory.
Is it plausible that the U.S would reinstate conscription policies eventually? Serious, I mean I don't live there. What do you think?

[abcdefz]

Depends on the circumstances. I think they try to resist it, because the draft is never popular. Not anymore, anyway.

[Kid Presentable]

Depends on the circumstances. I think they try to resist it, because the draft is never popular. Not anymore, anyway.
I suppose it is a fairly antequated notion. I do however see that less people may want to be in the army over time, especially with the world as it is. Like it might (and it's a nig might) cause people to look at recruitment less romantically. Like wrestlers. There's fewer wrestlers.

When The Rock illustrated that you could make better money for less effort doing movies, he put wrestling in a strange place. All I'm saying is that here, there is a brain drain happening in academic fields. The Government is obsessed with mineral industries and the accompanying specialists. I'm just wondering if that's indicative of a government that wants to breed a miltary force over time. Like getting us excited about our wealth, so they can then get us worried about someone pinching it.

Rambling person.

[Otis Driftwood]

I suppose it is a fairly antequated notion. I do however see that less people may want to be in the army over time, especially with the world as it is. Like it might (and it's a nig might) cause people to look at recruitment less romantically. Like wrestlers. There's fewer wrestlers.

When I hear about those 15 year olds breaking their spine over some barbed wire while moonsaulting of their parents house I'm tempted to think the exact opposite here.

[abcdefz]

Some people still look at the army (in America) in a romantic sense or with a sense of duty or patriotism. Ericlee and others are in a much better position to say for sure, but my sense is that for most recruits, it's more of a career move. They want to pay for college, maybe, and their choices are pretty much limited to joining the army.

If the equivalent of another World War II came along, I think Americans could get stirred up and enlistment would rise significantly, but post-Vietnam and post-Watergate, there's a lot of cynicism about the government and how it uses the military, probably more than cynicism about the military in and of itself.

[Tone Capone]

Most people who join the Army (or military in general) do so for the educational benefits. Most 18 year old kids don't believe they are gonna have to go to war or die and many 18 years that think they will go to war STILL don't they they are in danger of dying.

[Kid Presentable]

there's a lot of cynicism about the government and how it uses the military, probably more than cynicism about the military in and of itself.
Yeah, this is important. Like when I think people will be sent off to die, it's because the Government would like to send them off to die.

[Kid Presentable]

Most people who join the Army (or military in general) do so for the educational benefits. Most 18 year old kids don't believe they are gonna have to go to war or die and many 18 years that think they will go to war STILL don't they they are in danger of dying.
So, generally speaking, is it pure fluke if you come out alive?

[na§tee]

Nobody is saying that, are they?
randy is:

but he supported the killing with his magical hands..
seriously, you are going to get me angry saying stupid shit like that. is just fucking stupid to the highest level. you could get into some really roundabout argument about how EVERYONE is contributing to this magical killing of people and we ALL have responsibilty, somehow, whatever, but i won't. so if you want to call my father, who designed a couple of tanks, a murderer, then go right ahead.

[Kid Presentable]

randy is:


seriously, you are going to get me angry saying stupid shit like that. is just fucking stupid to the highest level. you could get into some really roundabout argument about how EVERYONE is contributing to this magical killing of people and we ALL have responsibilty, somehow, whatever, but i won't. so if you want to call my father, who designed a couple of tanks, a murderer, then go right ahead.
Further back we have my Grandfather, who bought home a German helmet from WW1, with bullet holes in it. We are all to blame in a variety of not-so-obvious ways. I think the building tanks=murder angle is more about what a-z said about the way Governments use the Army. I mean, there's heaps of blood on the hands of my relatives I'm sure, but what problem of mine is that?

[Randetica]

you get easily anrgy so im not very proud this time

well he is/was part of the game lets leave it at that

[abcdefz]

I think the Chinese invented gunpowder, so we could start there.

Yeah, it's hard to track "blame" for weapons. I wonder if they were first designed for hunting or warfare.

I don't know if the right thing to do is to not invent that stuff or to do your best because it could potentially defend your people in a righteous situation. I really don't know.

[na§tee]

honey, tell me this, if someone was calling your parent a stone-cold killer, would you be absolutely delighted or not? so do not patronise me. you know i like you but your opinion right now is an extremely idealistic, narrow and uninformed one. of course the world would be a better place if we could all hold hands, rub shoulders and smoke some weed, but of course this does not happen in real life. some men have no other opportunities, and my dad was one of them. he had a family and he had to support them. do not call my father a fucking killer.

kid, i'm not saying that no one else has blood on their hands. everyone does, in some small way, that's why i was pointing out the pointlessness of her argument. my boyfriend's family drive alvis cars, they make the tanks my father worked on. are they responsible? are they killers? i don't think so. which is why i think it is totally backwards to point the finger like that at everyone in the army or to assuage blame like a-z pointed out.

the army do many other things other than KILL PEOPLE. i can't even believe i am writing this.

[Randetica]

randy is:


seriously, you are going to get me angry saying stupid shit like that. is just fucking stupid to the highest level. you could get into some really roundabout argument about how EVERYONE is contributing to this magical killing of people and we ALL have responsibilty, somehow, whatever, but i won't. so if you want to call my father, who designed a couple of tanks, a murderer, then go right ahead.


and i didnt say he was a muderer, just that he supported it somehow

killing in the war is no real murdering anyway, just human trimming

[Tone Capone]

So, generally speaking, is it pure fluke if you come out alive?

No. Most troops don't see combat. Even if they do, our Army is better. So basically it's a fluke if you come out dead.(lb)

[Schmeltz]

So, generally speaking, is it pure fluke if you come out alive?


Check the numbers. The States has lost something like 3100 soldiers in Iraq, out of something like a half million rotated through the country. Britain just lost their 100th soldier out of tens of thousands. Canada has lost about 50 soldiers in Afghanistan, out of 2000-3000 maintained there and even more rotated through.

It's actually very few soldiers who die in Western armies now, dying is way more a fluke than coming out alive. Of course, you could also be horribly wounded, which happens more often than being killed.

[Kid Presentable]

No. Most troops don't see combat. Even if they do, our Army is better. So basically it's a fluke if you come out dead.(lb)
Shit. I never would have thought. So when you enlist and you wind up on the ground in say Baghdad, what have you done that differs from the path say you (I want to say Lopp or eric, but I don't know enough about their situations) followed? What would their priorites be to get to frontline combat, compared to yours?

[Randetica]

honey, tell me this, if someone was calling your parent a stone-cold killer, would you be absolutely delighted or not? so do not patronise me. you know i like you but your opinion right now is an extremely idealistic, narrow and uninformed one. of course the world would be a better place if we could all hold hands, rub shoulders and smoke some weed, but of course this does not happen in real life. some men have no other opportunities, and my dad was one of them. he had a family and he had to support them. do not call my father a fucking killer.

kid, i'm not saying that no one else has blood on their hands. everyone does, in some small way, that's why i was pointing out the pointlessness of her argument. my boyfriend's family drive alvis cars, they make the tanks my father worked on. are they responsible? are they killers? i don't think so. which is why i think it is totally backwards to point the finger like that at everyone in the army or to assuage blame like a-z pointed out.

the army do many other things other than KILL PEOPLE. i can't even believe i am writing this.

i said my grandpa was a murderer
and my dad is a cop, i dont think he ever killed someone but i couldnt care less if someone called him a muderer probably cause i dont give a shit about my parents or about other people's opinions about my parents

i get what youre saying

you can calm down now

lol thats why im never talking with girls (except for zorra)

[na§tee]

.

[Randetica]

well, that's great reasoning. all girls go mental, eh? yeah, you try talking about something you care about and maybe you'll get angry too. just because you don't care about your family doesn't mean i want mine tarred with the GIANT BRUSH OF GUILT OF ALL MANKIND. so don't paint me out to be some sort of pseudo crazy hormonal woman who's just going off on one of her womanly fits.

well thats how we know and love you ;)

[na§tee]

.

[Otis Driftwood]

In other news does it matter if person A or person B builds a weapon used to kill other people?

[ms.peachy]

Most people who join the Army (or military in general) do so for the educational benefits. Most 18 year old kids don't believe they are gonna have to go to war or die and many 18 years that think they will go to war STILL don't they they are in danger of dying.
In my observations, this is true.

I think a military career is actually an excellent option for many young people who, for whatever reason (but usually socioeconomic), are faced with a lack of other opportunities to develop themselves personally, academically, and professionally. I also think some personalities are very well suited to the more regimented lifestyle of the military, and flourish in that atmosphere whereas they might founder in the civilian world.

[Kid Presentable]

In my observations, this is true.

I think a military career is actually an excellent option for many young people who, for whatever reason (but usually socioeconomic), are faced with a lack of other opportunities to develop themselves personally, academically, and professionally. I also think some personalities are very well suited to the more regimented lifestyle of the military, and flourish in that atmosphere whereas they might founder in the civilian world.
Yeah. I was pretty aimless for about 6 years after highschool. If I hadn't gone to uni, then maaaaaybe the Army.

[Tone Capone]

Shit. I never would have thought. So when you enlist and you wind up on the ground in say Baghdad, what have you done that differs from the path say you (I want to say Lopp or eric, but I don't know enough about their situations) followed? What would their priorites be to get to frontline combat, compared to yours?

Basically I had high enough test scores to pick the job I wanted. I knew outta highschool that "computers were the way to go" so I chose this job, come to find out ~I hate computer nerds~ but that's beside the point. There are guys that do my job in a combat zone but their main priority is to set up comm... quick. Anyone I know including myself can be put into combat but, it's not reason most join. I'm not sure if that answered your question...

[abcdefz]

Ms. Crafty sort of hit on another reason people join: folks who think they need that sort of discipline, sometimes to "straighten them out."

And some join because they're running away from something.

[camo]

Everyday you live you gamble with you're life. So why not do it for a cause? That's what my bro thinks.

[camo]

ahh good times when wars and killings had class

wow you just went right down in my estimations (n)

[Otis Driftwood]

Ms. Crafty sort of hit on another reason people join: folks who think they need that sort of discipline, sometimes to "straighten them out."

And some join because they're running away from something.
Some also join cause shooting people is the best thing to do while listening to Drowning Pools "Let the bodies hit the floor". I wonder if the army will straighten them out?

[Randetica]

wow you just went right down in my estimations (n)

yeah cause that comment was so serious

[abcdefz]

Some also join cause shooting people is the best thing to do while listening to Drowning Pools "Let the bodies hit the floor".




I thought it was "Ride of the Valkyrie." :confused:

[Otis Driftwood]

Naw, I'm pretty sure, maybe it was in some Michael Moore flic.
Isn't "Ride of the Valkyries" from Manowar?

[camo]

yeah cause that comment was so serious

sorry then (y)

[Randetica]

see the PM, randy. that is just so base and unnecessary. i thought you were above that.

no im not lol

it's one of my biggest hobbies to call bbmbers parents murderers and to sex the sex out of the word sexist

your fault when you had a better image of me

hope you think of me so low now that you wont get dissapointed in the future again

[na§tee]

.

[abcdefz]

Isn't "Ride of the Valkyries" from Manowar?



I was thinking of the Wagner tune from the helicopter sequence in Apocalypse Now. :D

[ericlee]

Some times you can't blame people on their views of the military from what they read. They think Army and they think of nothng but kill, kill, kill. It also doesn't help to have war hungry presidents such as the one we've got now which also strengthens the view of outsiders.

People will never know anything about the military until they actually join it and even if you join, you've got to spend at least 3 years enlisted to have a grip of what it's all about.

I've got a friend who's a marine. Marines are probably known as nothing but cold blooded killers, well, again. That's wrong. He's been to Sri Lanka to help give aid for the Tsunami, he's went to Somalia to give aid and also he takes trip to Iraq to help as well. He's been in for 12 years and hasn't fired one shot- meaning not even killing anyone. Yes, a cold blooded marine.

People get my situation confused. I have never served in the military while in Iraq. I was a contractor. I have been on one deployment while in the military and that was in Afghanistan shortly after the attacks. Go figure, I joined in 1994 when Clinton was president. All the way up until Bush took over in 2001, there was no worries. I didn't do any deployments but as soon as Bush came in, shit followed.

Even if you do join the military now and get sent to Iraq, just as it's been mentioned earlier in the thread, chances of survival are very high. If you're non-infantry, you spend time on the base. Almost all time and can't go out into the community. Look at the statistics of casualties during Viet Nam for 3 years and compare them to the 3 years in Iraq.

But still, if people join the military now, I strongly discourage it. If people want to join for the college money then they should wait for a new president.

[Nivvie]

From the age of about 5 to 15 if asked what I wanted to do when I grew up I'd have said join the navy, be a naval nurse.

My dad was in the navy, and every male in is family before before him.

To me it was nothing to do with killing, fighting, battles, or even defending a country.
It was about being part of something old, established, and spending a lot on time on a boat.
Plus, as a medic, I would have done more patching up of injuries than causing them.
I just love ships of all sizes and sailing, but as I got older and the realities of following orders sunk in, and I met a bloke worth keeping, it went away.

Most of the military types I know now are RAF, as there's two bases up here, and it's amazing how many of them just want to fly the fast planes, and the death, hounour, queen and country bit is an afterthought, if that.

[Randetica]

why would anyone join the army?

only makes sense when you want to get killed, kill, money and/or protect your country

laaame

no army = no wars

only pussies who keep fighting each other with sticks and used toilet paper

btw with this post i meant soldiers ONLY, no engineers, no uniform designers or what other jobs are involved..they wouldnt be needed without the soldiers

[ericlee]

btw with this post i meant soldiers ONLY, no engineers, no uniform designers or what other jobs are involved..they wouldnt be needed without the soldiers

Can I live in that flaw free and beautiful world where you live that soldiers aren't needed?

[abcdefz]

Imagine there's no heaven! It's easy if you try.

[zorra_chiflada]

i don't know if it's just me, but when i think of the armed forces, i don't just think of soldiers guns and killing or whatever. as i said before, my uncle is in the air force since he was 18 and has never ever been in combat. he earns a lot of money for being some kind of technician at the pentagon. to me, that seems like a great job for him. i suppose the problem is that not everyone can have the non-combat jobs.

[wanton wench]

some of the most interesting people i have ever met have been soldiers or vets.

[-T-]

no army = no wars



This may be true. The only time there will be no army's is when there is no people left. There will Never be peace.It sucks but it's true. Its just the way it is.

Imagine there's no heaven! It's easy if you try.

Yeah thier is one of the largest problems with the world... religion:D

[ericlee]

This may be true. The only time their will be no army's is when their is no people left. Their will Never be piece.It sucks but it's true. Its just the way it is.



Yeah thier is one of the largest problems with the world... religion:D

There's pieces of ass. Pieces of chicken. Pieces of pizza. Reeses pieces. What do you mean there will never be piece? Sam Jackson's got a huge piece.

And it's THERE dammit!! THERE THERE THERE.

[Whatitis]

why would anyone join the army?

only makes sense when you want to get killed, kill, money and/or protect your country

laaame

no army = no wars

only pussies who keep fighting each other with sticks and used toilet paper


immaturity - another casaulty of war.

[-T-]

There's pieces of ass. Pieces of chicken. Pieces of pizza. Reese's pieces. What do you mean there will never be piece? Sam Jackson's got a huge piece.

And it's THERE dammit!! THERE THERE THERE.

OK I get it I have horrible grammar and suck at spelling. The odd thing is that if this was a piece of paper I would not have half of the errors I do typing. For whatever reason I have problems with this.

If I were to double check what I write I could most likely correct the majority of my problems. The thing is thats not going to happen on a message board.

[Randetica]

Can I live in that flaw free and beautiful world where you live that soldiers aren't needed?

what the cunt are you talking about

[Randetica]

immaturity - another casaulty of war.

people should stop taking my post up the ass, most of it wasnt even serious, except for the used toilet paper part :rolleyes: (borrowed it from otis(the smiley not the used toilet paper))

just meant to ask why in the world a man would like to become a soldier
then wrote the only reasons i could think of

and added it with a 'would be funny if people bombed each other with shit bombs instead of real bombs' humor, thats it

no army = no weapons = no real wars, only used toilet paper wars (lb) (lb)

guess you need to study years to understand my posts..

[ericlee]

what the cunt are you talking about

Just all of this foresight speak you're doing. No army= no war and so on. If it's not foresight then show me where this world is that an army isn't needed.

So if there's no army, then the world would be a much better and safer place?

So, all of the civilians in the world are just perfect people that can never cause harm amongst others?

You need to remember, there's also national guard and reservists whos duties are to take care of business when things get so deep that even police forces can't even handle it. And yes, most of the causes of these incidents are caused by non-military people such as rioting.

[Randetica]

shit. bomb. wars.

[ericlee]

shit. bomb. wars.

Now you're talking.(y)

[Loppfessor]

I wish I had more time to type in this thread but the fact is that the VAST VAST VAAAAAAST majority of people who join the Army or military don't get killed.

[ericlee]

I wish I had more time to type in this thread but the fact is that the VAST VAST VAAAAAAST majority of people who join the Army or military don't get killed.

I've posted about it already. Other people have made some good points too.

Don't worry, we've got you covered.

[Kid Presentable]

I really tried to avoid being ignorant and judgemental. It's just so far departed from my life that I'm pretty curious about it.

[hitmonlee]

i'm not down with people who think its ok to kill people.

i understand its a bit different in america, some people don't have much of a future and its the only way out. and many asian/european countries, well, you HAVE to do it.

but any austalian that joins the army... apparently i'm supposed to respect them and love them for protecting the country. i suppose realistically i should, but in my head, i can't support the killing of people, NO MATTER WHAT.

i'd rather die and have my country invaded before i kill a person.

[Schmeltz]

I'm actually thinking about doing a brief stint in the service once my degree's done. I've spent four years reading military history written mostly by people who see fit to make all sorts of comments and judgments about war and soldiering and so on but who have spent all of their lives in academia. I figure if I'm going to do military history I should get some street cred. I don't think I'd be much good for actual combat, but I'd still like to perform some kind of military task and get a feel for what being in an army is actually like. Plus it could be my ticket out of this shitty town.

[Pres Zount]

Hmm, I would havew no qualms about fighting for something if I thought it was worth it; I put my name down for a red brigade in 2001, (haven't heard back) but I wouldn't join the military as a career, or to fight for a country I have no pride in, in a war that I don't care about.

[Tone Capone]

Another important thing to remember is that the military is MORE than just the Army. There are 3 other branches (4 if you count the Coast Guard;) ) .

[Otis Driftwood]

Some times you can't blame people on their views of the military from what they read. They think Army and they think of nothng but kill, kill, kill. It also doesn't help to have war hungry presidents such as the one we've got now which also strengthens the view of outsiders.

People will never know anything about the military until they actually join it and even if you join, you've got to spend at least 3 years enlisted to have a grip of what it's all about.

I've got a friend who's a marine. Marines are probably known as nothing but cold blooded killers, well, again. That's wrong. He's been to Sri Lanka to help give aid for the Tsunami, he's went to Somalia to give aid and also he takes trip to Iraq to help as well. He's been in for 12 years and hasn't fired one shot- meaning not even killing anyone. Yes, a cold blooded marine.

People get my situation confused. I have never served in the military while in Iraq. I was a contractor. I have been on one deployment while in the military and that was in Afghanistan shortly after the attacks. Go figure, I joined in 1994 when Clinton was president. All the way up until Bush took over in 2001, there was no worries. I didn't do any deployments but as soon as Bush came in, shit followed.

Even if you do join the military now and get sent to Iraq, just as it's been mentioned earlier in the thread, chances of survival are very high. If you're non-infantry, you spend time on the base. Almost all time and can't go out into the community. Look at the statistics of casualties during Viet Nam for 3 years and compare them to the 3 years in Iraq.

But still, if people join the military now, I strongly discourage it. If people want to join for the college money then they should wait for a new president.
(y) This is very impressive. Seems your friend helped a lot of people and you also made a lot of experience points in the whole process. Something that still bothers me though, is the moral ambivalence you're trained to experience. By that I don't mean guilt issues after shooting or bombing someone but that whole function without questioning what you're told to do thing. It makes for some nice war movies, but those people frighten me.
A lot of the russian mob enforcers for example are former speznaz...