Corporal Punishment

[ericlee]

So I just talked to a few people who has the same views as I do about it.

All this talk about can't solve violence with violence is pretty damn pointless. People take advantage of the fact that they know if they rape somebody then the max thing that can happen to them is being in prison for a couple years.

If they rape and kill someone then they could either spend life in prison or the death penalty. Some people don't care because they've got nothing to live for anyway so they'll keep doing it till they get the prison term and that way they've at least got a warm meal and a cot. I'm talking Americans though because most prisons go through some rough audits on the inmate's living conditions.

People who steal, murder, kidnap and rape have it too easy in the states.

The way I see it is they should have the same punishment that they've created. Raping for one thing, they should have a well hung man rape them everyday while violently beating them but making sure that no vital organs are harmed so that they could live to endure the pain.

Child molesters/ killers should get the same treatment that the Japanese used to do to the POWs back in WWII. I needn't say much about it but it was some of the worst torturing tactics known.

Just look at some of these countries like in the Mid East. You rape someone, they cut your dick off. You steal- they cut your hands off. The crime rate is very low compared to the states. When I lived in the Mid east, people just left things around and if you walk by 2 days later, it's still there. They want to keep their hands.

[Waus]

This seems like a general political thread - but I'll bite.

I dunno, it's hard to judge other people when you have to. You know, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." I'm not saying I buy into that, but you have to wonder if it's the punishment or the culture that leads to lower crime rates.

[TurdBerglar]

i wouldn't mind all that shit at all as i plan to never do those things

[befsquire]

i thought this was going to be about whether parents should spank their children (they should not).

i think child molesters are the biggest scum on the planet. i truly believe something is wrong with them mentally to do such a thing to a child. but i don't believe that torturing and then killing them is the answer, because if they know they'll die if they get caught, what incentive do they have to let the child live? none.

if the rapist is being raped on a daily basis while serving his time, he is much more likely to rape again, only perhaps with a more violent flair, to release some of his rage, etc. so, he gets out and is more of a menace than he was before. and you really have to distinguish between rapists. some get charged with rape because a woman changes her mind during sex. some are rapists because they're 18 having consensual sex with their 15 year old girlfriend. sometimes the victim doesn't want to testify at trial, and so the prosecutor would rather the defendant go to jail for a couple of years, rather than do no time at all.

[hitmonlee]

i believe some aborigines still use the customary law, which is like, if you murder someone you might get a leg chopped off or something. ther's been cases of aborigines being punished by white man's law and aboriginal customary law.

imo the concept of corporal punishment would work better on men than women. thoughts?


Just look at some of these countries like in the Mid East. You rape someone, they cut your dick off. You steal- they cut your hands off. The crime rate is very low compared to the states. When I lived in the Mid east, people just left things around and if you walk by 2 days later, it's still there. They want to keep their hands.

what if they are stealing to support/feed their family. then you cut off their hand. what then?

[ericlee]

i believe some aborigines still use the customary law, which is like, if you murder someone you might get a leg chopped off or something. ther's been cases of aborigines being punished by white man's law and aboriginal customary law.

imo the concept of corporal punishment would work better on men than women. thoughts?



what if they are stealing to support/feed their family. then you cut off their hand. what then?

It doesn't matter. People give excuses such as "for my family" all the time and nobody will ever know.

[hitmonlee]

what if you are accused of stealing something, and it wasn't you, but it's too late because you have already lost your hand?

permanent solutions aren't so hot.

how many people have been found not guilty, since DNA testing has been brought in, for crimes they didn't commit.

[TurdBerglar]

you win some you loose some

take one for the team

[Waus]

you win some you loose some

take one for the team

Hahaha. That'd be hilarious if that was some guy's attitude towards losing his hand unjustly.

[zorra_chiflada]

you mean capital punishment?

[ericlee]

what if you are accused of stealing something, and it wasn't you, but it's too late because you have already lost your hand?

permanent solutions aren't so hot.

how many people have been found not guilty, since DNA testing has been brought in, for crimes they didn't commit.

There's usually a camera involved in theft situations. Believe me. Alot of stores that you'd think only Bedouins and goats go shopping there because of the desolation of the store.

In the states or other countries, it would be even better to go about the chopping off of hands and such for stealing because we have the capability of DNA testing and such.

Still, in alot of 3rd world countries where DNA technology is not too keen, you can see that theft related crimes are low.

[ericlee]

you mean capital punishment?

No, that's too easy.

[Tone Capone]

People who steal, murder, kidnap and rape have it too easy in the states.

Naw man, prison is fucked up. I mean it's royaly a fucked up placed to be. As far as western society is concerned, we set the bar for punishing prisoners. It's the other western countries that are a cake walk.

[Otis Driftwood]

Cheers:
http://www.ratebeer.com/beerimages/full_size/23483.jpg

[abcdefz]

i thought this was going to be about whether parents should spank their children (they should not).



:rolleyes:

[ericlee]

Naw man, prison is fucked up. I mean it's royaly a fucked up placed to be. As far as western society is concerned, we set the bar for punishing prisoners. It's the other western countries that are a cake walk.

I've worked in 3 prisons and those inmates act like it doesn't bother them. There's alot of repeat offenders too. If prison were so bad in the states then why do they keep coming back?

They've got a tv, board games, cd players, trips to the canteen to buy their food and other needs, outdoor activities, shows, and alot of other good things.

They mess up and they get sent to the cell block which is a 6 by 9 with a bunk and a tin toilet with no tv, books or anything. Woooo that's real cruel.

There's this one inmate who pissed me off the most. Living in general population in luxury after he killed his daughter by putting her in the oven because she was crying when he was cracked out.

think child molesters are the biggest scum on the planet. i truly believe something is wrong with them mentally to do such a thing to a child. but i don't believe that torturing and then killing them is the answer, because if they know they'll die if they get caught, what incentive do they have to let the child live? none.

If there is something mentally wrong with those fucks then why aren't they in an institute for the mentally insane criminals? They have psychiatric evals to make sure. There's some inmates who seem real intelligent and have good morales till you see that they've molested kids.

As far as incentive, the child molesters have it the worst in prison. Everyone knows that they get the worst shit by the other inmates and that is very true and yet there's still alot of child molesters. I'm pretty sure that the rate would drop as soon as they heard about a molester who got his dick chopped off and gets beaten everyday.

Most of the time when a kid ends up missing, the outcome usually isn't good as it is these days. It's so sad to say but it's true and if you look at the missing kids' dates you'd see that alot of them have been missing for more than a year.

[Schmeltz]

Just look at some of these countries like in the Mid East. You rape someone, they cut your dick off. You steal- they cut your hands off. The crime rate is very low compared to the states.


Yes, we want our countries to be more like the Middle East. That's a real great idea.

There are lots of Western countries with crime rates plenty lower than yours who have not had to resort to draconian fundamentalism in order to curb the excesses of the population. You're looking at this entirely the wrong way.

[ericlee]

Yes, we want our countries to be more like the Middle East. That's a real great idea.

There are lots of Western countries with crime rates plenty lower than yours who have not had to resort to draconian fundamentalism in order to curb the excesses of the population. You're looking at this entirely the wrong way.

Yeah and rapists are so right. How dare me for having feelings for the victims.

As far as the hand chopping thing, yeah, I'm wrong. A fine and some jail time is suitable.

[Waus]

My personal view, I'm not sure how practical it is, is to have the criminal better the communtiy, rather than himself. Hard labor. All day. Everyday. Build something, grow something, make something that will benefits others.


I like that idea - but then you have to wonder how you make people work like that. There's already community service. Forced hard labor sounds like prisoners just become slaves. How do you motivate people who know they're just working until their term is up?

[ericlee]

I personally think the chopping is a bit too extreme, but I don't see why the criminal should be able to better himself.

My personal view, I'm not sure how practical it is, is to have the criminal better the communtiy, rather than himself. Hard labor. All day. Everyday. Build something, grow something, make something that will benefits others.

Just recently Texas has reversed some charges, and released innocent people accussed of some pretty severe crimes. It is a terrible thing that they can not get the years of their life back, or erase what might of happened to them in prison, but atleast they didn't have anything cut off.

Yeah that's good insight. Better the community. He could still build stuff with his dick chopped off though.

[abcdefz]

Forced hard labor sounds like prisoners just become slaves. How do you motivate people who know they're just working until their term is up?



I really have no problem with forced labor for inmates.

And you enforce it by doing whatever you need to do when prisoners misbehave. Discipline, punishment, added duties, solitary, making them listen to Coldplay, restricted leisure opportunities, added jail time...

[Waus]

Fair enough. I guess the question then is what can you have inmates do (other than community service) that is productive and valued by our society.

I guess I'm just thinking of all the farmers who wouldn't want inmates working in their fields, construction workers who wouldn't want prisoners building their houses...

Just trying to think of a practical application of the idea. All the railroads are built already.

[abcdefz]

There's always always always trash pick up.

For ages, the job was making license plates. Don't know if they still do that or not.

I'd use them for road construction sort of grunt work, too, which could help ease costs for that stuff.

[Waus]

There's always always always trash pick up.

I'd use them for road construction sort of grunt work, too, which could help ease costs for that stuff.

I was counting the trash as community service.

The road construction could work - the only real problem is the amount of inmates that the public wouldn't be comfortable with having out on the freeway. Serious offenders and whatnot.

[ericlee]

I was counting the trash as community service.

The road construction could work - the only real problem is the amount of inmates that the public wouldn't be comfortable with having out on the freeway. Serious offenders and whatnot.

Only trustee inmates are the ones who work in public and they're still under the supervision of correctional officers.

Serious offenders are restricted to the compound.

[abcdefz]

Serious offenders -- I'd have them sorting recyclables from municipal waste or something.

[marsdaddy]

You're all over the board here, Eric.

I agree the penalties for rape are too light. Exactly for the reasons Beth outlined -- there are different kinds of "rapists" -- the laws allow people to commit rape and spend little or no time in jail.

In general, our justice system is fucked up. It's a money pit, there is little rehabilitation, and criminals come out of prison better criminals than when they went in. And the line between cop and criminal is getting thinner all the time.

But what about the wrongly convicted? I realize it's probably a rare exception, but should someone suffer torture because of circumstantial evidence only to be exonerated 25 years later?

No, I think your solution would only make matters worse. One big assumption in your plan is the idea that criminals worry about getting caught. Criminals are usually pretty confident they won't get caught.

What our justice (ie: prison) system needs is to be held to the highest standards. It should not be a bureaucracy but a place where people are taught to have respect for themselves and others, value life, and contribute to society. These things should be taught as if the people are children -- like the military, only better. And as a-z said, those that do not get with the program should be disciplined. Those that do will likely come out of the experience better equipped to deal with a non-criminal life.

And don't get me started on capital punishment.

[hitmonlee]

I've worked in 3 prisons and those inmates act like it doesn't bother them. There's alot of repeat offenders too. If prison were so bad in the states then why do they keep coming back?

They've got a tv, board games, cd players, trips to the canteen to buy their food and other needs, outdoor activities, shows, and alot of other good things.

They mess up and they get sent to the cell block which is a 6 by 9 with a bunk and a tin toilet with no tv, books or anything. Woooo that's real cruel.


hmmm ok

why should we be cruel? isn't it about removing offenders from the public, first and foremost?

"right" and "wrong" are just constructs. who are we really to decide what is right and what is wrong? perhaps what we are doing is wrong and what they are doing is right? how can we force people to live by the rules decided by those who believe they know what is right and what is wrong.

this is a reason why i think its important we aren't too cruel. yes, remove them from society where they are causing a problem to the majority, but to really punish them badly? i don't see why its anyones place, and i actually worry about the sanity of people who seek out jobs where they are in a position to be the ones punishing.


isn't everyone just a product of their environment, genes and upbringing? how many people actually decide to be a sicko?

[ericlee]

hmmm ok

why should we be cruel? isn't it about removing offenders from the public, first and foremost?

"right" and "wrong" are just constructs. who are we really to decide what is right and what is wrong? perhaps what we are doing is wrong and what they are doing is right? how can we force people to live by the rules decided by those who believe they know what is right and what is wrong.

this is a reason why i think its important we aren't too cruel. yes, remove them from society where they are causing a problem to the majority, but to really punish them badly? i don't see why its anyones place, and i actually worry about the sanity of people who seek out jobs where they are in a position to be the ones punishing.


isn't everyone just a product of their environment, genes and upbringing? how many people actually decide to be a sicko?

If the person is insane then he doesn't know what he is doing. As far as a normal person doing it, they know they are wrong in doing it but yet they do it with no remorse. Meanwhile the victim can't sleep after it happens. Can barely eat, can't face family or friends and even feel guilty for nothing.

The piece of shit inmate probably brags about it. Has no problems smiling. If I hadn't worked as a correctional officer then I'd have no experience dealing with those guys and I'd have no room to talk but I know.

If noone steps up to do the punishing then rapists would just bathe in it. Someone's gotta do it because God isn't going to strike them down. I know of people who are suitable for the dishing of the punishment too.

Not all rapists come from a bad family and have been raised in a bad environment either. I've even seen a story about a successful police officer who had a nice wife, house, kids and he'd go and stalk prostitutes and kill them. Even buried some of the corpses in his flower bed while everyone wasn't home.

[hitmonlee]

If the person is insane then he doesn't know what he is doing. As far as a normal person doing it, they know they are wrong in doing it but yet they do it with no remorse. Meanwhile the victim can't sleep after it happens. Can barely eat, can't face family or friends and even feel guilty for nothing.

The piece of shit inmate probably brags about it. Has no problems smiling. If I hadn't worked as a correctional officer then I'd have no experience dealing with those guys and I'd have no room to talk but I know.

If noone steps up to do the punishing then rapists would just bathe in it. Someone's gotta do it because God isn't going to strike them down. I know of people who are suitable for the dishing of the punishment too.


Not all rapists come from a bad family and have been raised in a bad environment either. I've even seen a story about a successful police officer who had a nice wife, house, kids and he'd go and stalk prostitutes and kill them. Even buried some of the corpses in his flower bed while everyone wasn't home.

i have trouble believing that even the rapists who know the consequences of their actions are mentally stable.

sickos should be locked up and rehabilitated, yes. punishment... not so sure personally.

[ericlee]

i have trouble believing that even the rapists who know the consequences of their actions are mentally stable.

sickos should be locked up and rehabilitated, yes. punishment... not so sure personally.

A strong handfull know the consequences and yet, they're repeat offenders. Even when they do get locked up.

[ericlee]

Ok, I'm done joking around in this thread now. I did have some of you going.

It's like this. Rapists actually do get what they deserve. If they're repeat offenders then they'll possibly never see daylight again.

I do like the fact that once convicted of being a sex offender that they have to register after serving their time.

Even though alot of people have the eye for an eye appeal, it may seem good to them but it's also very hypocritical to think that way.

Yeah, I was just stirring up shit in this thread.

[hitmonlee]

i think all violent criminals should be sent to an island with a machete, flint, a map to drinking water and jeff probst, and left to duke it out on their own.

[ericlee]

i think all violent criminals should be sent to an island with a machete, flint, a map to drinking water and jeff probst, and left to duke it out on their own.

Yessss!! And one gay gorilla!! With a lazer gun!!

[Bob]

i think all violent criminals should be sent to an island with a machete, flint, a map to drinking water and jeff probst, and left to duke it out on their own.

they tried that

it turned into australia

[hitmonlee]

i meant a smaller island, so they have to fight each other, rather than creating separate settlements and arguing by telegraph, and with no natives to slaughter :( and jeff probst.