Greatest Hip Hop groups

[milkboy009]

I came across this yesterday while surfing. I know no one really listens to MTV when it comes to Hip Hop, but they had some pretty smart people on the panel it seems. I think I would put them at spot #7 or 8...
http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/

[Spanky1]

Im pretty sure they dident make the list. :(

[funk63]

stuuuuuuupid

[Spanky1]

Im not trying to sound racist but the whole pannel is African american, If they switched it up and had diffrent races on the pannel I bet the Beasties would of been on there.

[funk63]

Im not trying to sound racist but the whole pannel is African american, If they switched it up and had diffrent races on the pannel I bet the Beasties would of been on there.

true. but HIP-HOP was created by african-americans. and the majority of HIP-HOP is created by black rappers. itd be like if they had a show on the greatest rock groups it'd probably me a mostly white pannel.

[Lex Diamonds]

I agree with most of that but if MOP aren't in the top 5 there's no way UGK shoulda been in there.

And what's with the "100 Percent Proof" thing? It's like they chose the worst example of their rhymes possible.

[Brother McDuff]

even if they're playing the race card, if salt-n-pepa is so huge because it opened the door for women in hip-hop, then the beasties should be there just on principle for breaking white rappers into the fold. what these poeple aren't aware of is how much the beasties have done with hip-hop and how much they continue to bend it and blur the line between it and other styles of music. they dwell too much on the licensed to ill and white thing and ignore all the other facets of their career than puts'em over the line. i truly think it was a race issue that drove that argument, from what i saw in the video.


oh yeah, UGK and Outkast? psssst, that just shows how truly fucked this list is. i could live without the beasties being on that list, but not when UGK and Outkast are on it. even the fugees; that cat said it right when he said all they had was one classic album, that's as far as they went. whatever they did solo-wise is null.

[Spanky1]

well this just proves how much MTV sucks once more.

[balohna]

Beastie Boys are the very definition of what a hip-hop group should be. Having 3-6 guys that just each have their own verse on every song isn't rapping as group. They need to trade off, add to each other's rhymes, etc. A Tribe Called Quest is good at that.

[pm0ney]

Beastie Boys are the very definition of what a hip-hop group should be. Having 3-6 guys that just each have their own verse on every song isn't rapping as group. They need to trade off, add to each other's rhymes, etc. A Tribe Called Quest is good at that.

Not really. They dont need too. Thats basically saying Wu Tang Clan isn't a great hip hop group, even though they dropped (in my opinion) the best hip hop album in history. Theres a ton of things that contribute to a good group. Trading off rhymes isn't one of them. I love it, and I'd like to hear more of it from groups, but it isn't the standard for what a group should be. Also, the majority of A Tribe Called Quest records is Q-Tip taking one verse and Phife taking the next.

In terms of this MTV list, it's bullshit. Beasties are easily one of the top 5 hip hop groups in history. In terms of critical success, commercial success, longevity and innovation there are few musical groups period who are in their league.

[ggirlballa]

ego trip's list of the best rap groups was better cuz they narrowed it to the top 16 and as i remember (i have the book) beastie boys came in nuber 10 i think right before EPMD and De La Soul then Tribe came afterrun dmc was #1 and then P.E

[Lex Diamonds]

Outkast above Wu, Tribe, and EPMD? Seirously, what the fuck?

[Kid Presentable]

Outkast above Wu, Tribe, and EPMD? Seirously, what the fuck?
Before Speakerboxx/Love Below, I'd sort of put Outkast on par with Wu-Tang and EPMD at least.

[manwich]

true. but HIP-HOP was created by african-americans. and the majority of HIP-HOP is created by black rappers. itd be like if they had a show on the greatest rock groups it'd probably me a mostly white pannel.


WOW, WOW, where do you think Rock started? ummm Chuck Berry maybe? Jimmi Hendrix? Little Richard? Just a couple of names that come to mind. I don't agree that the panel would be mostly white. Certainly the people who were at the beginning of Rock 'n roll weren't all white, probably more were Black. Rock came off of Blues anyway, what white guy had to sing the blues when folks were singing that shit for real back in the day?

[SickFreak]

Make no mistake, OutKast is a pretty good group. But they are not even close to Wu Tang and EPMD.

OutKast has sadly kind of sold out in this decade. I f***in' hate "Hey Ya!"
And now, Andre 3000 has his own kid's show. WTF?

[balohna]

Not really. They dont need too. Thats basically saying Wu Tang Clan isn't a great hip hop group, even though they dropped (in my opinion) the best hip hop album in history. Theres a ton of things that contribute to a good group. Trading off rhymes isn't one of them. I love it, and I'd like to hear more of it from groups, but it isn't the standard for what a group should be. Also, the majority of A Tribe Called Quest records is Q-Tip taking one verse and Phife taking the next.

In terms of this MTV list, it's bullshit. Beasties are easily one of the top 5 hip hop groups in history. In terms of critical success, commercial success, longevity and innovation there are few musical groups period who are in their league.
I guess both are technically classified as "groups", but there's a difference between a bunch of MC's performing together and a bunch of MC's taking turns. Beastie Boys do both though obviously (3 Minute Rule, Professor Booty, Rhyme the Rhyme Well, etc.)

[canucklehead200]

beasties are top 3 no question, they have been considered "ground breaking" at least 3 times in their careers and revolutionized the rap game, it's them, run dmc, and public enemy = top 3

[Kid Presentable]

I guess both are technically classified as "groups", but there's a difference between a bunch of MC's performing together and a bunch of MC's taking turns. Beastie Boys do both though obviously (3 Minute Rule, Professor Booty, Rhyme the Rhyme Well, etc.)
The difference is that the Beastie Boys do one, and you think that makes them better than everyone else. Then they do the other, and you think that makes them better than everyone else.

[Deep_Sea_Rain]

Make no mistake, OutKast is a pretty good group. But they are not even close to Wu Tang and EPMD.

OutKast has sadly kind of sold out in this decade. I f***in' hate "Hey Ya!"
And now, Andre 3000 has his own kid's show. WTF?

Sold out? That's a matter of opinion.

[funk63]

WOW, WOW, where do you think Rock started? ummm Chuck Berry maybe? Jimmi Hendrix? Little Richard? Just a couple of names that come to mind. I don't agree that the panel would be mostly white. Certainly the people who were at the beginning of Rock 'n roll weren't all white, probably more were Black. Rock came off of Blues anyway, what white guy had to sing the blues when folks were singing that shit for real back in the day?



yano what... suck it.

[manwich]

yano what... suck it.

I'm confused, are you acknowledging my comment, or do you just have nothing to say?

[funk63]

I'm confused, are you acknowledging my comment, or do you just have nothing to say?


too tired to argue

[Kid Presentable]

Make no mistake, OutKast is a pretty good group. But they are not even close to Wu Tang and EPMD.

OutKast has sadly kind of sold out in this decade. I f***in' hate "Hey Ya!"
And now, Andre 3000 has his own kid's show. WTF?
Outkast's first 3 albums are classics. And they still have the odd moment of genius.

[Spanky1]

why did they make a video making it look like that all white people are assholes, I hate that.

[Rhys T]

Wow, De la Soul didn't even make it in. I guess you can't the list too seriously if they've left them out too.

[pshabi]

Sold out? That's a matter of opinion.
No, it's a matter of fact.

The fact is, they DIDN'T sell out.

[M.C. Guevera]

No De La Soul or Beasties but UGK and Fugees? Wha?

[MC Boulangerie]

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/index13.jhtml

[Tigo]

Outkast used to be good - but they suck balls now

[milkboy009]

a couple thoughts....

I LOVE De La Soul too, but I would have to say that Tribe did the whole daisy age thing a little before them and had a lot more influence the hip hop community than them. So im not sure if they'd make my list....

I don't really listen to UGK but as stated in the arguments they were basically doing their thing underground thing in the south for YEARS upon YEARS, influencing that huge explosion of southern rap that basically exploded and took over all of mainstream hip hop it seemed like a couple years ago..... but then again what about the Geto Boys? I really feel like u gotta have one of the two on the list....

Even though you may not like OutKast's newer stuff, you have to look at their earlier music and admit its amazing. ALL of their music is ground-breaking in terms of what can be done with a hip hop song, ATLiens, Aquemini and Stankonia are reason enough.... just admit you don't like that they're on the list cause they "sold out" or whatever....

Can someone make a better argument for EPMD? I don't really get what makes them so influential and great...

And another point in the Boys favor. Whites are making the majority (or at least a VERY LARGE CHUNK) of the decisions when it comes to Hip Hop, who it is marketed to, artists that break, and of course the white population makes up about 80% of Hip Hop record sales. So if the beasties never came around how many of these white people would be listening to rap? Not nearly as many. And you have to think lots of these white executives in their 30s were turned on to hip hop by the the beasties in the first place....

And yea that dood is right, the Roots put on probably the greatest hip hop show ever, so they gotta be on the list...

That all being said i will attempt to construct a list.... I'll probably have to edit after you guys make comments.....

1. RUN-DMC
2. NWA
3. Public Enemy
4. A Tribe Called Quest
5. Wu-Tang Clan
6. Beastie Boys
7. OutKast
8. Geto Boys
9. The Roots
10. De La Soul (had to do it)

[laurie_hammy]

Beastie's Number 1, the rest,

WHATEVER diw niw niw niw niw niw niw

[M.C. Guevera]

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/index13.jhtml

That guy had some excellent reasons as to why the Beasties deserved to be on the list. Although I don't get what he means by soft-cover sound and retrofitted politics.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Stop watching MTV you retards.

[KENNY GUIDO]

a couple thoughts....

I LOVE De La Soul too, but I would have to say that Tribe did the whole daisy age thing a little before them and had a lot more influence the hip hop community than them. So im not sure if they'd make my list....

I don't really listen to UGK but as stated in the arguments they were basically doing their thing underground thing in the south for YEARS upon YEARS, influencing that huge explosion of southern rap that basically exploded and took over all of mainstream hip hop it seemed like a couple years ago..... but then again what about the Geto Boys? I really feel like u gotta have one of the two on the list....

Even though you may not like OutKast's newer stuff, you have to look at their earlier music and admit its amazing. ALL of their music is ground-breaking in terms of what can be done with a hip hop song, ATLiens, Aquemini and Stankonia are reason enough.... just admit you don't like that they're on the list cause they "sold out" or whatever....

Can someone make a better argument for EPMD? I don't really get what makes them so influential and great...

And another point in the Boys favor. Whites are making the majority (or at least a VERY LARGE CHUNK) of the decisions when it comes to Hip Hop, who it is marketed to, artists that break, and of course the white population makes up about 80% of Hip Hop record sales. So if the beasties never came around how many of these white people would be listening to rap? Not nearly as many. And you have to think lots of these white executives in their 30s were turned on to hip hop by the the beasties in the first place....

And yea that dood is right, the Roots put on probably the greatest hip hop show ever, so they gotta be on the list...

That all being said i will attempt to construct a list.... I'll probably have to edit after you guys make comments.....

1. RUN-DMC
2. NWA
3. Public Enemy
4. A Tribe Called Quest
5. Wu-Tang Clan
6. Beastie Boys
7. OutKast
8. Geto Boys
9. The Roots
10. De La Soul (had to do it)

didnt de la sol come out b4 tribe? De la is often credited for bringing out that style, not tribe.

[milkboy009]

didnt de la sol come out b4 tribe? De la is often credited for bringing out that style, not tribe.

yea ur right. Thats why I had to rethink it and edit my list....


Its moments like this i wish i had grown up with hip hop like some people got to, IM JEALOUS!

[pm0ney]

Tribe and De La both debuted in 89, but 3 Feet High and Rising was a much more acclaimed record than Peoples Instinctive Travels. Tribe didn't explode to the mainstream as the genious's they were until Low End Theory dropped in 90 or 91.

[Brother McDuff]

i always thought that de la had a better group dynamic than tribe, and that the beats move around a little bit more and are funner. but i guess tribe always irks it out because their joints straight grooved like a muthfucka and q-tips personality is so strong. i think tribe gets old faster than de la, though.

[KENNY GUIDO]

Tribe and De La both debuted in 89, but 3 Feet High and Rising was a much more acclaimed record than Peoples Instinctive Travels. Tribe didn't explode to the mainstream as the genious's they were until Low End Theory dropped in 90 or 91.

i could have sworn De La came out in 88. I guess coming from Massapequa and knowing the same people they did was the reason why I heard it before mainstream. they used to perform at alot of parties in Amityville.

[Brother McDuff]

i agree, im pretty sure "Plug Tunin'" came out in 88. their first full-length was in 89.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

didnt de la sol come out b4 tribe? De la is often credited for bringing out that style, not tribe.

You gotta remember that Tribe, De La, and the Jungle Brothers are all crew: Native Tongues. So that style is something that they all helped to break. I think the JB's album came out first. Q-Tip did some production on the JB's first album in 88. Then came the De La album (Q-Tip was on that album too). Then Tribe's ablum.

The hippy-daisy age thing was De La but that's not really what defines the style. The thing those groups were most noted for was conscious hip hop. The whole Native Tongues crew projected that in slightly different ways.

The reason 3 Feet High and Rising got so much shine had a lot to do with Prince Paul's production work. All the Native Tongues albums had jazzy samples and hard drums but Prince Paul upped the level of production complexity and went further out into left field.

Like pmoney touched on, it was Tribe's Low End Theory and Midnight Mauraders that finally pushed them ahead of De La and the JBs in the public realm. A lot of that was just timing. Shit was heavily crossing over in the early and mid 90s (the Beasties, Cypress Hill, and Snoop and Dre all played major rolls in that, as did Tribe). It seemed like every kid had those albums at the time, but it was the cats who dug a little deeper into hip hop that also had De La, and the JBs, and albums like 93 to Infinity.

[pm0ney]

I was just thinking of something....Check this out...


Check Your Head, The Chronic, Low End Theory, Midnight Marauders and 36 Chambers all came out within a 2 year span of each other.

Talk about a fuckin great time for hip hop.

[mcamuto]

You gotta remember that Tribe, De La, and the Jungle Brothers are all crew: Native Tongues. So that style is something that they all helped to break. I think the JB's album came out first. Q-Tip did some production on the JB's first album in 88. Then came the De La album (Q-Tip was on that album too). Then Tribe's ablum.

The hippy-daisy age thing was De La but that's not really what defines the style. The thing those groups were most noted for was conscious hip hop. The whole Native Tongues crew projected that in slightly different ways.

The reason 3 Feet High and Rising got so much shine had a lot to do with Prince Paul's production work. All the Native Tongues albums had jazzy samples and hard drums but Prince Paul upped the level of production complexity and went further out into left field.

Like pmoney touched on, it was Tribe's Low End Theory and Midnight Mauraders that finally pushed them ahead of De La and the JBs in the public realm. A lot of that was just timing. Shit was heavily crossing over in the early and mid 90s (the Beasties, Cypress Hill, and Snoop and Dre all played major rolls in that, as did Tribe). It seemed like every kid had those albums at the time, but it was the cats who dug a little deeper into hip hop that also had De La, and the JBs, and albums like 93 to Infinity.

Good call man. A lot times people forget to remember the producer makes the 'sound'. Like really the early LL albums were similiar to LTI (rock samples, etc) thanks to Rick Rubin. I think all the native tongue stuff is pretty dope. However, mainstream wise it seems like tribe trumps. I have met so many people who 'claim' they are into hip hop and if you call them on it an ask them what bands they are into they usually fall back to 'Tribe'.

93 till infinity is just a classic track. Out here in the bay it is what legends are made of. Not sure how popular it is elsewhere in the country.

another band that could view for top 10 in some peoples eyes is Gang Starr. Even though I have some negative experiences with them they still have a pretty classic sound.

[pm0ney]

Gang Starr is fucking incredible. Guru did some good solo stuff too, actually.

[mcamuto]

Gang Starr is fucking incredible. Guru did some good solo stuff too, actually.

They are really tight. I honestly have not liked much after the full clip anthology besides 'Skillz' but they are tight. Guru actually played this mega show here in sf in 2000 where the roots were the live backing band for a ton of people. It was like seeing gangstarr live. They played all the jams live, even Dywck (sp?). Unfortunately primo had flaked a few times here in SF making a lot of people upset at the band which was a bummer. If any non hip hop head gets the full clip collection they love it from beginning to end. Primo also has one of the sickest record collections on the planet, side note.

I think Gang Starr opening for the Beasties would be an awesome one two punch.

[milkboy009]

I was just thinking of something....Check this out...


Check Your Head, The Chronic, Low End Theory, Midnight Marauders and 36 Chambers all came out within a 2 year span of each other.

Talk about a fuckin great time for hip hop.

Don't forget Illmatic (y)

The end of the golden age of Hip Hop right there

[Sir SkratchaLot]

They are really tight. I honestly have not liked much after the full clip anthology besides 'Skillz' but they are tight. Guru actually played this mega show here in sf in 2000 where the roots were the live backing band for a ton of people. It was like seeing gangstarr live. They played all the jams live, even Dywck (sp?). Unfortunately primo had flaked a few times here in SF making a lot of people upset at the band which was a bummer. If any non hip hop head gets the full clip collection they love it from beginning to end. Primo also has one of the sickest record collections on the planet, side note.

I think Gang Starr opening for the Beasties would be an awesome one two punch.

I know right, the Skillz 12" was immediately copped but I didn't go for the album. Primo still holds it down with vinyl too, which I have much respect for. All this laptop bullshit is too nerdy for me.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

93 till infinity is just a classic track. Out here in the bay it is what legends are made of. Not sure how popular it is elsewhere in the country.

That whole album is legendary world wide. Diamond did most of the production on that and just killed it 15 times over. That's one of those albums you can pull out and everybody just bugs out hoooard. Freestyle Fellowship is the other west coast crew that was killing it back then but didn't have the same calliber of production behind them. The last thing they put out I could get behind was "Can you find the Level of Difficulty in This?" off of the Beneith the Surface compilation. That was like the culmination of of MC skills and Odd's production on that was as good as it gets.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

http://www.emusic.com/samples/m3u/album/10597850/0.m3u

Ughhhhhh!

[mcamuto]

That whole album is legendary world wide. Diamond did most of the production on that and just killed it 15 times over. That's one of those albums you can pull out and everybody just bugs out hoooard. Freestyle Fellowship is the other west coast crew that was killing it back then but didn't have the same calliber of production behind them. The last thing they put out I could get behind was "Can you find the Level of Difficulty in This?" off of the Beneith the Surface compilation. That was like the culmination of of MC skills and Odd's production on that was as good as it gets.

Did diamond work on it or some cat named Domino? I get confused?!?!

The freestyle fellowship. In like 96 I was living in the midwest and went to the the local 'indy' record store and some cat turned me onto 'Innercity griots'. For about two years straight i listened to that shit every day at night. It was and still is one of my fave hip hop albums. That whole period killed more then anything. Best kept secret - Classic album. Pete Rock and CL Smooth also busted out some classics. The Craig Mack Flavor in your Ear Remix with LL and BIG classic. Nine Livez had a fresh vibe. My buddy in laced me with some mix tapes back in 94-95. Still my best mixes ever.

All the people who grew up out in the bay bug out still when the RBL posse is played.

[alleyezonme6198]

I def think the beasties should be on any greatest hip hop list and also the bone thugs n harmony should have been on there, do any of you all listen to them? i hate their new shit but they have 2 cd that were amazing and i think they get under rated all the time like the beasties, i dont agree with the subject matter on those 2 cds by the bone thugs (murder, thievin, and murder) but they stick to that topic through the whole cd and you can tell they were just rappin about shit they were intrested in, it reminds me of PB in that way

[Brother McDuff]

I def think the beasties should be on any greatest hip hop list and also the bone thugs n harmony should have been on there, do any of you all listen to them? i hate their new shit but they have 2 cd that were amazing and i think they get under rated all the time like the beasties, i dont agree with the subject matter on those 2 cds by the bone thugs (murder, thievin, and murder) but they stick to that topic through the whole cd and you can tell they were just rappin about shit they were intrested in, it reminds me of PB in that way


i agree. they were pretty tight for a while, but fell off really hard. east 1999 Eternal is like the "Darkside of the Moon" of gangsta rap. used to be a big fan. the album after their next is gonna have beats by Swizz Beats, Kanye West, and Dr. Dre, so hopefully they rekindle some of their old edge for that one.

[milkboy009]

I def think the beasties should be on any greatest hip hop list and also the bone thugs n harmony should have been on there, do any of you all listen to them? i hate their new shit but they have 2 cd that were amazing and i think they get under rated all the time like the beasties, i dont agree with the subject matter on those 2 cds by the bone thugs (murder, thievin, and murder) but they stick to that topic through the whole cd and you can tell they were just rappin about shit they were intrested in, it reminds me of PB in that way

I mos def listen to bone thugs, I REP CLEVELAND BABY!
They are underrated, they make some of the best smokin music ever! haha.
Im tha weed man, im tha weed man....

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Did diamond work on it or some cat named Domino? I get confused?!?!

The freestyle fellowship. In like 96 I was living in the midwest and went to the the local 'indy' record store and some cat turned me onto 'Innercity griots'. For about two years straight i listened to that shit every day at night. It was and still is one of my fave hip hop albums. That whole period killed more then anything. Best kept secret - Classic album. Pete Rock and CL Smooth also busted out some classics. The Craig Mack Flavor in your Ear Remix with LL and BIG classic. Nine Livez had a fresh vibe. My buddy in laced me with some mix tapes back in 94-95. Still my best mixes ever.

All the people who grew up out in the bay bug out still when the RBL posse is played.

Oh sorry, it was Domino! I think he did Casual's album too.

[mcamuto]

Oh sorry, it was Domino! I think he did Casual's album too.

Word, I think he did it as well. The whole Heiro crew touch so much of each oters stuff. Its like all in the family shit going on there.