Paul's Boutique vs. 3 Feet High and Rising vs. Fear of a Black Planet

[milkboy009]

This is a question I have struggled with for a long time. While the boys were recording PB these 2 other albums dropped. They both have the whole layered sampling thing going on, and i think i've even read a quote where one of the boys said they heard the albums and were like "i want PB to sound like this." It seems to me the sampling is more layered on PB than the other two as far as production. As far as lyrics, the wacky pop references were something totally new. But as far as production can we really say its is as great of a CD it is hailed to be, since these other two dropped before it?

P.S. I'm writing a paper on PB, due on thursday afternoon, SO HURRY UP AND REPLY!

[pm0ney]

1- Pauls Boutique
2- 3 Feet High and Rising
3- Fear Of A Black Planet

[Deep_Sea_Rain]

I wonder which of the 3 will get the most votes on the Beastie Boys message board?

[balohna]

Wasn't the PE album that dropped at the same time "It Would Take a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back"? I have Fear of a Black Planet and it isn't that great IMO.

[KENNY GUIDO]

Wasn't the PE album that dropped at the same time "It Would Take a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back"? I have Fear of a Black Planet and it isn't that great IMO.


I dialed 911 a long time ago!

[mcamuto]

It takes a nation came out in 88, fear in 1990 and three feet high in 89.

Also, during that same time NWA Dropped Straight Outta Compton which some will argue has better production/samples (even has a paul revere sample in it) then 'nation'.

The timeline is a little fuzzy because some stories say PB took like 16 months to fully produce so who knows when other albums were dropped with respect to PB is not fully clear.

However, at the end of the day PB was being built by the Dust Brothers before the beasties got fully involved and the dust brothers had previously produced some tracks for Ton Loc's album as well as Young MC.

Overall PB is the most dense sample wise and would be most comparable to Three Feet High in terms of goofy-ness compared to PE and NWA which
had a more raw sound. Overall that period had the sickest samples.

[KENNY GUIDO]

The timeline is a little fuzzy because some stories say PB took like 16 months to fully produce so who knows when other albums were dropped with respect to PB is not fully clear.



I read in an interview in 89 it took 12 months. Ill have to dig it up.

[DrunkenMantis]

I don't think Prince Paul really compares to the Dust Brothers. But 3 feet is a great album and funny as hell.

[DrunkenMantis]

I'm not taking away from 3 feet, it's a brilliantly produced album

[Kid Presentable]

I don't think Prince Paul really compares to the Dust Brothers. But 3 feet is a great album and funny as hell.
Serously, PP>>>>>Dust Brothers. It's much closer on 3 feet and PB than anyone on this forum would ever admit.

[Justin]

I think Pauls Boutique sounds completely different than the other two.

[DrunkenMantis]

I agree I'm just talking production values

[pm0ney]

Serously, PP>>>>>Dust Brothers. It's much closer on 3 feet and PB than anyone on this forum would ever admit.

Agreed. As a producer, I dont know if anyone is better than Prince Paul in terms of hip hop.

That said, I still think Pauls Boutique is a better album than 3 Feet High...Their both classics, but when you get to albums of the stature of the two, it really doesn't matter what you're reasoning is. But to say that I wouldn't know the difference just because I'm a member on a Beastie Boys message board is retarded. If I was on a De La message board I'd say the same thing.

On the Public Enemy tip, I think It Takes A Nation is better than all three of these albums, but I just didn't feel that Fear Of A Black Planet as a whole album lived up to its predecessor. Lot of classic tracks on there, but also a couple tracks I felt were throw-away.

[Justin]

agreed pm0ney.

Speaking of de la, I've always liked "stakes is high" better than "3 feet high and rising"


"Whatever happened to the mmmmmm ceeeeeeeeeees!?"

[Kid Presentable]

Agreed. As a producer, I dont know if anyone is better than Prince Paul in terms of hip hop.

That said, I still think Pauls Boutique is a better album than 3 Feet High...Their both classics, but when you get to albums of the stature of the two, it really doesn't matter what you're reasoning is. But to say that I wouldn't know the difference just because I'm a member on a Beastie Boys message board is retarded. If I was on a De La message board I'd say the same thing.

On the Public Enemy tip, I think It Takes A Nation is better than all three of these albums, but I just didn't feel that Fear Of A Black Planet as a whole album lived up to its predecessor. Lot of classic tracks on there, but also a couple tracks I felt were throw-away.
Paul's been outdone plenty of times, but like the Beastie Boys, he just has a niche that only he can do. He's one of my favourites of all time, no doubt. But he's not even running the race.

[JohnnyChavello]

I wouldn't assume that the samples in Paul's Boutique are any more layered than they are in It Takes A Nation of Millions. A lot of the samples on Paul's Boutique are looped as opposed to chopped, which makes them easier to recognize. The Bomb Squad, on the other hand, was, beginning with It Takes A Nation, beginning the technique of sampling beats, drums, vocals, etc. and chopping them up to make them unrecognizable as identifiable samples. This would lead one to think they've used fewer than there acually are, but I've read interviews with Hank Shocklee and he says that It Takes A Nation of Millions is PE's most sample heavy album. In my opinion it's the best of the three, and Fear of a Black Planet is right behind, but all of them are part of the late 80s early 90s collage aesthetic that was cut short by Gilbert O'Sullivan's sorry ass.

[pm0ney]

Paul's been outdone plenty of times, but like the Beastie Boys, he just has a niche that only he can do. He's one of my favourites of all time, no doubt. But he's not even running the race.

I guess its a preference thing. He's definitely one of my all time fav's though.

[Brother McDuff]

I read in an interview in 89 it took 12 months. Ill have to dig it up.


on the contrary, I heard it took them a whole year to make PB. hehe.


oh yeah, Buhloone Mindstate is my favorite De La album by far, though De La's Dead kicks major ass too. a great sequel to three feet high.

whoever said Paul's, quote, "not runnin' the race" put it perfectly. he's got the talent, track record, and status to be a much heavier force in popular hip-hop, but he just chooses not to join the rat race. as disappointing as that is, there's something I respect about it too.

[Kaptain Nemo]

I don't think Prince Paul really compares to the Dust Brothers. But 3 feet is a great album and funny as hell.

You think WHAT????

[Kaptain Nemo]

I wouldn't assume that the samples in Paul's Boutique are any more layered than they are in It Takes A Nation of Millions. A lot of the samples on Paul's Boutique are looped as opposed to chopped, which makes them easier to recognize. The Bomb Squad, on the other hand, was, beginning with It Takes A Nation, beginning the technique of sampling beats, drums, vocals, etc. and chopping them up to make them unrecognizable as identifiable samples. This would lead one to think they've used fewer than there acually are, but I've read interviews with Hank Shocklee and he says that It Takes A Nation of Millions is PE's most sample heavy album. In my opinion it's the best of the three, and Fear of a Black Planet is right behind, but all of them are part of the late 80s early 90s collage aesthetic that was cut short by Gilbert O'Sullivan's sorry ass.


ITNMHB is one of the best hip-hop albums ever. Because of the sampling? NO. because of the artistry? Yes.

Paul's Boutique? Come on man its like a Sgt Pepper's album rock of rap.

[KENNY GUIDO]

I don't think Prince Paul really compares to the Dust Brothers. But 3 feet is a great album and funny as hell.


I believe this album came out a few months before PB.


for the record, if you read in the "thank yous" in the insert, they thank the "AMITYVILLE POSSE". Now, the amityville posse wasnt what you think. they were actually a bunch of kids from amityville/east massapequa that hung out all the time and partied. they call themselves a "posse" after a while. My younger sister was unfortunely part of the groups and thier activities.

[KENNY GUIDO]

ITNMHB is one of the best hip-hop albums ever. Because of the sampling? NO. because of the artistry? Yes.



No, no, no!!! your missing the whole point of the album. The album wasnt great because of the artistry, it was great because of thier politcal messages against the blacks.

[JohnnyChavello]

Maybe I didn't explain that well: Paul's Boutique is definitely one of the all time great hip-hop albums; so is It Takes A Nation of Millions and 3 Feet High and Rising. The point I was making is only that the samples on Paul's (and 3 Feet High to some extent) tend to be looped without significant pitch changes, or beat-chopping, which makes the samples easier to recognize. When beat is chopped or altered so that it no longer resembles the original, it is difficult for even an expert to recognize it as a sample. I do have to disagree, though. I think the creative uses of samples on all three of the albums is inseparable from their artistry.

[pm0ney]

I think the big difference between Pauls Boutique and It Takes A Nation is that while Pauls Boutique revolutionized (spelling?) what could be done with sampling, It Takes A Nation created a sound that was never heard from before, and never duplicated since. Add the political messages and skill of Chuck D. as a solo MC and you have easily one of the best albums of all time.

[mcamuto]

I do not know if PB was a revolution in sampling. As others have said Nation did a lot of unique things (snippits, pitch shift) that PB and other albums really had not done. The thing about PB is that the album is bascially a perfect listen from end to end and the sequencing, flow, samples etc made the album basically perfect. Nation does not have the flow of PB but its sound is a force to reckon with. Unfortunately PE pretty much fell down hill over time and the beasties have thrived. With the beastie popularity alot of 'new people' discovered PB after the fact. A lot of hip hop 'historians' seem to think 'Nation' is the most classic and best Hip Hop album ever. I think glen friedman recently gave some talk about 'Nation' in that context.

I would also argue to say some others were pioneering sampling much like the dust brothers as well. Most people who are familiar with Coldcut are familiar with the 'Pain in full 7 minutes of madness'. A lot of my friends who dig and are into sampling think this was a defining moment in sampling even though it was just on a single, its still brilliant and came out in 1987.

[manwich]

Yo Milkboy, PB def deserves its props, the shit is soooo sick, yeah 3 feet High is Tight, but, like somebody else said, Paul's Boutique flows So well, Plus, if we are looking at what they released before that, the change in lyrical content and production from Licensed to Ill makes PB even more impressive. (But you know me player, I'm biased about these things haha). Good luck on that paper, I saw money mark yesterday and I bought that "Pass the mic" book and he signed it! you were there in spirit as usual my man. Peace

[KevG]

This argument has always been between Beasties and De La. I don't know where that 3rd PE album came in. "Fear of a Black Planet" is a good record but not as good as "It Takes a Nation.." which is arguably one of the best Hip Hop records ever made.

De La Soul's album came out before "Paul's Boutique". Some of the songs (Potholes, Plug Tunin' & Jenifa came out in 1988)..


Let's go back to 1986/1987... De La wasn't out yet so we will go with BB vs PE.."Licensed to Ill" vs "Yo! Bum Rush the Show"... Sample wise, BB got this one. Aint nobody sampling Led Zeppelin along with Black Sabbath on an opening track.. haha!!

[JohnnyChavello]

It isn't the conventional wisdom, and I may be biased because it was the first hip-hop album I couldn't put down and basically ruined me for all other types of music, but Fear of A Black Planet is better than It Takes A Nation of Millions. I'd argue that it can be favorably compared to any of the classic rock and roll concept albums in terms of its complexity, innovativeness, musicality, and cohesiveness.

[Kid Presentable]

It isn't the conventional wisdom, and I may be biased because it was the first hip-hop album I couldn't put down and basically ruined me for all other types of music, but Fear of A Black Planet is better than It Takes A Nation of Millions. I'd argue that it can be favorably compared to any of the classic rock and roll concept albums in terms of its complexity, innovativeness, musicality, and cohesiveness.
Absolute madness, but your call.

[balohna]

So how are Public Enemy's more recent albums? I never hear anything about them these days but they still make music and still tour.

[KENNY GUIDO]

Let's go back to 1986/1987... De La wasn't out yet

then that would be the time they were called "mallrats" at the massapequa mall.
;)

[JohnnyChavello]

Their recent albums are good. I still buy the when they come out. They aren't necessarily as consistent through and through as they were in the late 80s and early 90s, but they're better than 95% of what's available.

[DrunkenMantis]

strong island represent ! LOL

[pm0ney]

then that would be the time they were called "mallrats" at the massapequa mall.
;)

Aka the worst mall on the island :eek:

[KENNY GUIDO]

Aka the worst mall on the island :eek:

nah, actually, the broadway and the bayshore mall are the worst! you can throw green acres in there, too.

wait....all malls suck now on long island now.

[gorilla]

don't forget that de la video they shot at laces

[KENNY GUIDO]

don't forget that de la video they shot at laces


lmao!! I remember Laces. I went to United Skates, tho.

the "me, myself and i" video was shot in Amityville high school.

[KevG]

It isn't the conventional wisdom, and I may be biased because it was the first hip-hop album I couldn't put down and basically ruined me for all other types of music, but Fear of A Black Planet is better than It Takes A Nation of Millions. I'd argue that it can be favorably compared to any of the classic rock and roll concept albums in terms of its complexity, innovativeness, musicality, and cohesiveness.

I don't think their is any Hip Hop album better than "It Takes a Nation of Millions..."

[gorilla]

lmao!! I remember Laces. I went to United Skates, tho.

the "me, myself and i" video was shot in Amityville high school.

Yep-a, I think Roller Castle was another spot in the are.

Anyways the De-La video was for Saturday that they shot at Laces.

[Justin]

FYI!


If you dont have the newer 3 feet high and rising remastered version (including the bonus disc)


GET IT NOW!

[Justin]

FYI!


If you dont have the newer 3 feet high and rising remastered version (including the bonus disc)


GET IT NOW!




especially for the songs:

Freedom of Speak (we got three minutes)
Double Huey Skit



and the rest of them...

[KENNY GUIDO]

Yep-a, I think Roller Castle was another spot in the are.

Anyways the De-La video was for Saturday that they shot at Laces.

those were the days! I used to love roller skating!