we're fucked...

[SobaViolence]

on the global climate change front, we're fucked bad.

Far more than previously acknowledged, the battle against global warming will be won or lost in China, even more so than in the West, new data show.

A report released last week by Beijing authorities indicated that as its economy continues to expand at a red-hot pace, China is highly likely to overtake the United States this year or in 2008 as the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases.


This information, along with data from the International Energy Agency, the Paris-based alliance of oil importing nations, also revealed that China's greenhouse gas emissions have recently been growing by a total amount much greater than that of all industrialized nations put together.
damn commies (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0305-02.htm)

[abcdefz]

Yeah -- they're going to be adding a ton of coal-based power plants, from what I understand.

[QueenAdrock]

Hey if they built that wall, they can build a dome so only they will have to deal with the repercussions of their actions.

Though I'd be fucked if we did that here. Yay DC emissions! (n)

[kaiser soze]

thank the market in our own backyard

stop buying MADE IN CHINA and maybe they'd slow the f' down

not to mention all the crap they toss (including sandstorms) into the air....lands on our west coast!

[Bob]

i think india's got the same problem too. all these newly industrializing countries do not have the same environmental safeguards that we've established in the west, and even ours don't work that well, if it's not too late for them entirely. with the rest of the world catching up, who knows what'll happen

[beastieangel01]

it's always cheaper when "made in china"
we are a bunch who always want to save money to have more money

digging our own graves.

and this just brings me on too many tangents, which ultimately leads to being :mad: that people as a whole tend to be reactive instead of proactive.


but yeah. looks like a bad sign for us humans. good times!

[discopants]

Global warming is not caused by humans. Look at the facts you naive Guardian reading Bono fans.

Want to explain why England had vineyards when the Romans were hear, or why the Thames froze over in the 1500's or why in the 1970's scientists were predicting a new ice age?

Climate changes. Deal with it.

[JobDDT]

But there are particular effects that we can see greenhouse gases having on the environment now. Its ignorant to think that in 20 years, chemicals will just "reverse themselves" and fix their effects on their own.

[Documad]

It's all well and good for us to discuss how bad China and India are going to be. But we're much much smaller and we're still Number 1 for now. That's fucking embarrassing. And it makes it impossible for us to ever say anything to them. Those other countries that are on the verge of big development have just as much right to rape the environment as the US did in its industrial prime.

[Drederick Tatum]

Climate changes. Deal with it.

lol.

[Schmeltz]

Look at the facts you naive Guardian reading Bono fans. - discopants



Carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values. - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_Fourth_Assessment_Report#Changes_in_the_atmos phere)


So does the IPCC spend all their time reading the Guardian and listening to Bono, or does discopants spend all his time name-calling instead of acquainting himself with the facts that have allegedly eluded everyone but him?

[yeahwho]

Right Now David Lee Roth is in rehab.

[discopants]

So does the IPCC spend all their time reading the Guardian and listening to Bono, or does discopants spend all his time name-calling instead of acquainting himself with the facts that have allegedly eluded everyone but him?

Hey, I just find it anooying that politicians are using global warming as an excuse to tax the hell out of people. Gordon Brown makes me sick, he's lke the Sheriff of Nottingham. talking of facts, I happen to be a little incredulous about man being able to control the earths temperature with CO2, a naturally occuring gas that constitutes a small part of the atmosphere. I find it arrogant more than anything else, like a 100 years of industry can affect a plabet millions and millions of years old. While Im at it. all those guys banging on about saving the rainforest, are they gonna want to cut it all down now, to stop those nasty trees producing CO2. Better start clubbing seals too. (That was a joke- I do not advocate seal clubbing). Curses to the volcanoes! Best stop people breathing too much as well, just in case.

[Funkaloyd]

all those guys banging on about saving the rainforest, are they gonna want to cut it all down now, to stop those nasty trees producing CO2.Own goal. And you don't even realise it.

[discopants]

Own goal. And you don't even realise it.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic.

Listen up right, Britain produces 2% of the worlds greenhouse grasses, in the context of the worlds atmosphere, this is like a wasp farting in Wembley arena. Do you know what does produce a fair whack? Cows farting methane If Roger the Dodger himself, Al Gore is so concerned with saving the world, why doesn'y he invent some sort of big nappy?

Global warming is just the latest fashion trend and I cant believe people buy it. 5 years ago it was El Nino that was going to destroy us all, before that the hole in the O zone layer.

[JobDDT]

Yeah, I say bring on the skin cancer. Putting holes in the O-Zone is the new thing to do.

[Schmeltz]

Perhaps I ought to repeat the question you completely avoided answering anywhere in that morass of opinion: why do you think the IPCC attributes climate change to human activity? Is it because these hundreds of career experts have simply failed to take your "common sense" perspective into account? Or just maybe could it be because their comprehensive analysis of the available data demonstrates that in spite of how incredulous you personally are about the facts, and no matter how incredible it seems that nobody has consulted you, human activity is actually engineering catastrophic changes in the atmosphere?

What's arrogant is thinking that our economic practices can continue to disrupt the natural order of the biosphere indefinitely with no cost to either the planet or ourselves.

[Ali]

I'd like to know how carbon trading is supposed to work. It's like Tithes. Sin all you want and pay for forgiveness. Surely this means that there's just as much sinning?

[discopants]

I'm sure that scientists genuinly think that global warming is caused ny carbon emmissions ( I stess the word think). Problem is, now that globl warming is in fashion all these scientists think that they're hot shit and that anyone who disagrees is automatically wrong.
It comes down to the media who love to cause a panic among the gullible classes, wasn't it bird flu that was gonna wipe us all out? There a moronic radio advert at the moment with a guy interviewing a tyre (really) which says that we should all inflate our wheels to cut down on emmissions.
Politicians love global warming as its a gift wrappedway to tax people, just wait till Gordon Brown gets in.

[Qdrop]

Problem is, now that globl warming is in fashion all these scientists think that they're hot shit and that anyone who disagrees is automatically wrong.
It comes down to the media who love to cause a panic among the gullible classes, wasn't it bird flu that was gonna wipe us all out?

Politicians love global warming as its a gift wrapped way to tax people, just wait till Gordon Brown gets in.

(y)

very rational thinking.
i hope it spreads.

[discopants]

(y)

very rational thinking.
i hope it spreads.

Hows about this for rational thinking? Scientists are desperate to prove that global warming to be caused by humans because the thought that humans aren't in control is too scary for them to handle.
When you think about it, humans have been on the Earth for a fraction of its existence, and the time we've been producing pollution via machinery is infintisimally small. The sooner people get over this arrogance and realise that humans are just basically squatters with no control over the premises the better. When we're all extinct the Earth will still be here, CO2 emmisions or not.
Where have all the doom-mongers on this thread gone?

[Schmeltz]

We're all over in the other thread.


Scientists are desperate to prove that global warming to be caused by humans because the thought that humans aren't in control is too scary for them to handle.


That's not rational thinking, it's worthless opinionizing. Do you have any evidence for this? Do you seriously think that such a significant proportion of the scientific establishment would spend dozens of years, millions of dollars, and create reams and reams of data on the strength of some psychological instability that emerged from nowhere in the last couple of decades?


When you think about it, humans have been on the Earth for a fraction of its existence


That doesn't mean our species hasn't had the time or capacity to dramatically alter the natural environment. In point of fact that's part of the essence of the human condition - the ability to manipulate the biosphere in a manner disproportionate to our actual physical prowess. One might also point out that this alteration of said biosphere extends much further back than simply constructing machines - people have been burning or clearing vast tracts of forested land for millennia now, along with converting huge areas to agricultural uses, diverting rivers, draining wetlands and coastal areas, etc. Human interference with the environment (for economic gain) is nothing new, it's simply been exponentially ramped up in the last few centuries, and especially in the last few decades.

[yeahwho]

Earth is approximately 4.5 billion years (http://www.gate.net/~rwms/AgeEarth.html) old. In the past 100 years one of the species present has found a new way to get from point A to point B. Here is a hint, it isn't the frog.

It's humans. Pollution and it's causes and effects have been studied for the past 5 decades with increasing accuracy. It wasn't until recently scientists began to realize the depth of human involvement and Global Warming, the overwhelming majority of scientists were not convinced by the research until the past 5 years.

Now that the insurmountable evidence is in, the overwhelming majority of scientists agree, we as humans have fucked up our own planet. And the reality is with more scientists researching Global Warming the results are compounding mans involvement. I don't think it's trendy to believe we've done in our own enviroment nor does anybody else, it's just on our race to comfort we've left out a very large part of the equation. Let's hope we heed this information and rethink how we live our lives.

Somehow thinking because we are short-timers or political pawns in the big game of damaging the Garden of Eden does not compute. Not accepting responsibility for this mess is all most of the naysayers have to offer.

Thats really fucked up thinking.

[discopants]

I'm, just saying that humans have a natural guilt trip mechanism to make ourselves feel bad. Thats all religion is, now that CHristianity's dying on its arse (apart from in George W. Bush's head) people need something else ro feel bad about. Global warming is just a new religion.

Anyway, I'm not denying the earth is getting warmer, I just aint a bandwGON JUMPER

[fucktopgirl]

Global warming is just a new religion.

Anyway, I'm not denying the earth is getting warmer, I just aint a bandwGON JUMPER


A new religion, the fuck you are talking about??

Nobody is persecute or have to make odd rites... It is FACT that the earth is warming, yes because of the natural cycle of the planet, but ,mainly this acceleration and degradation of our habitat is du to our stupidity and lack of vigilance and extreme production and consumption.

AS far as to not jump on the bandwagon, too late, you are living on planet earth, so you are in it like all of us!

[kaiser soze]

tornadoes in one day (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/nyregion/29cnd-weather.html?ei=5065&en=2cde8891b45f856d&ex=1175832000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print65)

the weather is changing, why help it along?

[discopants]

Scientists have proved that 67% of crayfish are more intelligent than the Dutch. Thats a statistic, so it must to true. Al Gore's gonna do a film about it, who could mistrust him? A politician who lost a popularity contest with George W. Bush.

What have been your fave end-of-the-world panics? I miss the asteroid panic in the nineties. Can we have that back?

That crayfish statistic was a lie! Gasp!!!

[Ali]

The ozone layer was pretty cool (haha)

Did we ever sort that out?

[Schmeltz]

Scientists have proved that 67% of crayfish are more intelligent than the Dutch. Thats a statistic, so it must to true.


Which scientists have done the work to produce the statistic and what are their backgrounds and qualifications? Is this statistic published in multiple peer-reviewed publications? Is it a statistic subjected to multiple testing and controlled scenarios? Are there major corporate institutions putting up huge sums of money to provide fabricated counter-statistics in the hope of sweeping this statistic under the rug?

Or is it just some silly garbage you made up as part of a poorly construed and totally irrelevant analogy?

[discopants]

The ozone layer was pretty cool (haha)

Did we ever sort that out?

nah, the ozone layer is just SO 1990's. Get with it bro.