Gunmen kills 31 at Virginia Tech

[D_Raay]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm

A gunman has gone on the rampage at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia, US, killing at least 31 people and injuring another 10.

Police say there were two separate shooting incidents - at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a student dormitory, and Norris Hall, an engineering building.

Police say they believe there was one gunman and that he is dead.

Queenie I hope you didn't know anyone down there...

[Schmeltz]

It's curious to consider that this is an appalling, horrific, and heartrending tragedy... that wouldn't even make anyone in Baghdad raise an eyebrow. (http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/04/now_do_you_unde.html)

I guess it might seem trite or politicized to say so, but it's only at moments like this that it's possible to actually relate to what the Bush administration has loosed on the people of Iraq: a whirlwind of tragedy and despair in which incidents like this occur every single day.

[yeahwho]

This just in: Dick Cheney announces that Baghdad neighborhoods are as safe as the campus of Virginia Tech.

[QueenAdrock]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm



Queenie I hope you didn't know anyone down there...

Only two, who are graduated. And another, who's an engineering student....

:-/

[Documad]

This just in: Dick Cheney announces that Baghdad neighborhoods are as safe as the campus of Virginia Tech.
Too soon, but it still made me laugh.

[Whatitis]

It's curious to consider that this is an appalling, horrific, and heartrending tragedy... that wouldn't even make anyone in Baghdad raise an eyebrow. (http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/04/now_do_you_unde.html)

I guess it might seem trite or politicized to say so, but it's only at moments like this that it's possible to actually relate to what the Bush administration has loosed on the people of Iraq: a whirlwind of tragedy and despair in which incidents like this occur every single day.

This is a tragedy. And anything as bad as this, like "every single day" in Iraq, is tragic. But to sit there and demean this tragic event for whatever agenda you have is weak.

[Schmeltz]

Yeah, I thought someone might raise that point and I'm ill-prepared to debate it, really.

[Baseline]

33 people! Real tragedy! RIP
And there you can buy a gun even if you're under 18 (just with parent's permission :eek: ) ... that's crazy ... it really is.
Change your government ASAP!

[QueenAdrock]

And how do you think we should go about changing our government, and how will that prevent senseless violence?

[Baseline]

Everyone can do something within his own profession ... step by step ... people produce government...
Although your country has been bombin my, especially cities, where civilians are ... although these days children during play still run into bomb or its parts and loose arm or leg "if they're lucky",...
I've always believed in You! I'm not talking about freaks on the "top", but You who think & move healthy. ;)

[freetibet]

33 people! Real tragedy! RIP
And there you can buy a gun even if you're under 18 (just with parent's permission :eek: ) ... that's crazy ... it really is.
Change your government ASAP!

1) Truly, a tragedy. Precious lives lost :(
2) HELLO, there was a ban on guns at the campus. That's why 24999 students waited patiently for one squint-eye to come and shoot them. If any of these guys had had a gun (at least to impress female students), the gunman would have been stopped earlier.

[Tompz]

It's curious to consider that this is an appalling, horrific, and heartrending tragedy... that wouldn't even make anyone in Baghdad raise an eyebrow. (http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/04/now_do_you_unde.html)

I guess it might seem trite or politicized to say so, but it's only at moments like this that it's possible to actually relate to what the Bush administration has loosed on the people of Iraq: a whirlwind of tragedy and despair in which incidents like this occur every single day.

bulls eye

iraqi killings has lost it's news value, doen't sell tv ads like it used to

[DroppinScience]

2) HELLO, there was a ban on guns at the campus. That's why 24999 students waited patiently for one squint-eye to come and shoot them. If any of these guys had had a gun (at least to impress female students), the gunman would have been stopped earlier.

That wouldn't have done anything. If other students (most likely NOT trained) had a gun on them and engaged this kid in a gun battle, well the bloodbath would have been far worse. Plenty of other innocent bystanders would have been lost in the process. College students are NOT Jack Bauer.

[DroppinScience]

bulls eye

iraqi killings has lost it's news value, doen't sell tv ads like it used to

I understand this point of view, with 30+ more seemingly getting killed in Iraq on a daily basis and Virginia Tech being one isolated incident, but this should not minimize the collassal tragedy at VT.

Let's face facts: school shootings like these really, really hit home, especially if you're a college student or a recent graduate. Iraq is far too distant to feel the same level of compassion. I'm sorry, but it's true.

[Tompz]

America is a fucked upp country. You wouldn't believe the amount of resentment for many aspects of the american society that non-americans feel, including me.

It's a shame. You deserve better. Some of the brightest best people around are and have been Americans. Until american foreign and domestic politics takes some new direction i can hardly be surprised by these kinds of horrible incidents. It will for sure happen again, and it's a fuckin tragedy.

[Ali]

with 30+ more seemingly getting killed in Iraq on a daily basis and Virginia Tech being one isolated incident, but this should not minimize the collassal tragedy at VT.no, it should maximise the tragedy that is Iraq. This and worse happens EVERY DAY to people's mothers, fathers, children, siblings, friends... how muich closer to home do you need it to be?

EDIT: Please don't quote freetibet. The guy's a fukn retard and I'm trying to ignore him.

"impress female students" puurleeez!

[Tompz]

Let's face facts: school shootings like these really, really hit home, especially if you're a college student or a recent graduate. Iraq is far too distant to feel the same level of compassion. I'm sorry, but it's true.

yeah, what's on your own doorstep will concern you much i agree of course

also if the media chooses to focus on one thing that's not necessarily what's should be foucused on, it's quite likely that people will catch on

[DroppinScience]

This is a disgusting hatchet job done by Mark Steyn on the VT killings, decrying the "passive" culture (conveniently ignoring the incident where students locked up the doors, so Cho couldn't make it through the doors)

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzEzYzQ0Y2MyZjNlNjY1ZTEzMTA0MGRmM2EyMTQ0NjY

[EN[i]GMA]

This is a disgusting hatchet job done by Mark Steyn on the VT killings, decrying the "passive" culture (conveniently ignoring the incident where students locked up the doors, so Cho couldn't make it through the doors)

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzEzYzQ0Y2MyZjNlNjY1ZTEzMTA0MGRmM2EyMTQ0NjY

That's still better than D'Souza's literary defecation: http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/18/where-is-atheism-when-bad-things-happen/

You can hardly make a more facinorous point than this.

First of all, the idea of praying at a time this is absurd. Why pray to a God that allows things like this to happen at all? Because he has to fulfill some ridiculous Leibniezian notion of a 'best possible universe'? Because of 'free will'?

It's not just hard to understand, it's impossible to understand, and hard to rationalize.

[Ali]

Pray for tighter gun control laws.

Pray for a complete ban on the ownership of easily-concealed automatic handguns and ammunition.

[Resco]

I'd personally like to hear everyone's views on whether or not coverage of the event should be restricted in this aftermath stage. I saw a news story tonight about how the US media were being criticised for publicising the assailants left messages, and are now scaling back coverage. I personally find that really disturbing. The press should be able to release any and all information without criticism. The US can't afford to pretend this didn't happen, regardless of who it offends. Problems like social alienation and gun culture need to be addressed head on.

I also find a lot of merit in the need to recognise that in parts of the World such as Iraq, this is occurring everyday, and stems from a very serious problem that killing people is seen as a solution to a problem.

[QueenAdrock]

I think that the media's coverage SHOULD be scaled back. Not to repress the right to knowledge or anything, but out of respect for those who died. Perhaps give it some time before you release more information, the wounds are open and people are raw and grieving. I know a few people who went to Virginia Tech, and have a few friends who are even closer to those who go there...it's a tragedy and those kids don't need the media swarming everywhere. CNN, FOX, ABC, MSNBC, MTV, BBC, CBC, they're all there. They can't walk through campus without being attacked, and asked STUPID questions like "Will your lives ever be the same?" and "What was your first reaction when you heard that your friend was in that building?" and stuff. It's just to get ratings, those blood-sucking vampires in the media care because that's their JOB. They have no tact - they just want a story, want to squeeze out each individual recount from every student who may have possibly been involved.

The kids are also being bombarded with the pictures of the murderer, laden with guns. Pictures of himself pointing a gun straight at the camera, a void and cold look in his eyes. Do they really need to see that? They can't avoid it either, it's EVERYWHERE! Just flipping through the channels, it's all over commercials, on news programs, in newspapers, plastered all over the internet. All of that day's events come rushing back to these poor kids anytime they try to do anything to keep their mind OFF of what happened.

This shit needs to stop. It needs to be delayed, or kept to a minimum. These students and families and friends are going through so much trauma as it is, they don't need the added pain of having the media shove this down their throats.

[D_Raay]

It goes to show how really shameless the media can be. I was personally offended by the fact that our president was on TV within 2 hours or so of the breaking of the story, and subsequently 3 times after that. It seems as if they saw it as a chance for him to score some points with the American people.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the last thing I wanted to see was the man responsible for so much death, lamenting other deaths before we even had a chance to process the event.

[abcdefz]

It's a no-win situation. If people found out the stuff was being "suppressed," they'd be all up in arms about that, too.

And President Bush caught all kinds of shit about not responding fast enough to 9/11, Katrina, et al in the past. And this was an easy one.

And I think they've pulled back pretty well, considering it's something that's only days old. Give them people a break, folks. Everyone's human.

[Bob]

one thing that i thought was pretty tasteless though, was putting this (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3665/19cho4ud7.jpg) image on the front page of all the newspapers. that was the last thing some of these kids ever saw, now their parents have to wake up to that? what the hell.

[D_Raay]

It's a no-win situation. If people found out the stuff was being "suppressed," they'd be all up in arms about that, too.

And President Bush caught all kinds of shit about not responding fast enough to 9/11, Katrina, et al in the past. And this was an easy one.

And I think they've pulled back pretty well, considering it's something that's only days old. Give them people a break, folks. Everyone's human.
Well, I think there were some poignant differences between this and 9/11 or Katrina.

Specifically, this incident was a no-brainer as far his media presence, at least to his handlers. They are quick to exploit the emotional response of the American people when it is very easy to do so. In the case of Katrina or 9/11, they had to be very careful he was ready to say the right things, and portray the right image.

In my mind they, in effect, politicized something that should have been left alone.

[Whatitis]

^ Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

I think that the media's coverage SHOULD be scaled back. Not to repress the right to knowledge or anything, but out of respect for those who died. Perhaps give it some time before you release more information, the wounds are open and people are raw and grieving. I know a few people who went to Virginia Tech, and have a few friends who are even closer to those who go there...it's a tragedy and those kids don't need the media swarming everywhere. CNN, FOX, ABC, MSNBC, MTV, BBC, CBC, they're all there. They can't walk through campus without being attacked, and asked STUPID questions like "Will your lives ever be the same?" and "What was your first reaction when you heard that your friend was in that building?" and stuff. It's just to get ratings, those blood-sucking vampires in the media care because that's their JOB. They have no tact - they just want a story, want to squeeze out each individual recount from every student who may have possibly been involved.

The kids are also being bombarded with the pictures of the murderer, laden with guns. Pictures of himself pointing a gun straight at the camera, a void and cold look in his eyes. Do they really need to see that? They can't avoid it either, it's EVERYWHERE! Just flipping through the channels, it's all over commercials, on news programs, in newspapers, plastered all over the internet. All of that day's events come rushing back to these poor kids anytime they try to do anything to keep their mind OFF of what happened.

This shit needs to stop. It needs to be delayed, or kept to a minimum. These students and families and friends are going through so much trauma as it is, they don't need the added pain of having the media shove this down their throats.

It is a sad situation. Maybe the fault is our own being consumers of information during disasters (aka ambulence chasers and three-car pile-up watchers on the interstate). During a real disaster I think it is best to turn off the TV and listen to quality freeform radio instead (i.e., just so you can get some details like how to avoid harm and perhaps a little commentary). Immediate violant images during a crisis -- in some cases -- can be quite disturbing / mesmerizing and may have long lasting detrimental effects. Hard to say though.

[Dorothy Wood]

I've avoided most t.v. coverage on this and the long thread in beastie-free. I've managed to listen to a bit of NPR.

this whole thing only makes me more upset about the war and the lives lost all over the world that don't illicit the same kind of media frenzy.

I'm also tired of people trying to figure out what could have been done to avoid this. other than heeding the warnings of his professors, and maybe putting the kid in psychiatric care...I don't know what else anyone could have done. it's not like you can predict that someone's going to go batshit crazy and commit mass murder. it was one man with a personal agenda...I don't think any kind of gun laws would have kept him from doing something horrific either.

the evening of the day it happened, I saw Matt Lauer talking about how some students were surprised to see him down there because they didn't realize how big a deal the whole thing was. He was like, "this is historical" and yadda yadda. I found it disgusting. he was totally getting a journalistic boner from being a part of something historical. fuck that, let the people grieve and focus on creating a world where nobody would want to commit such a crime. turn the cameras off.

[MIKEtotheD]

I'm also tired of people trying to figure out what could have been done to avoid this. other than heeding the warnings of his professors, and maybe putting the kid in psychiatric care...I don't know what else anyone could have done. it's not like you can predict that someone's going to go batshit crazy and commit mass murder. it was one man with a personal agenda...I don't think any kind of gun laws would have kept him from doing something horrific either.

They could've at least put the rest of the buildings on lockdown after the first two shootings happened in the dorm.
I realise that people do get shot and it's not everytime that the shooter is going to go on a rampage, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
Had they locked down the buildings, it could've saved thirty lives.

[Dorothy Wood]

okay, name a time that somebody killed two people on a college campus and then went on to commit mass murder two hours later.

[MIKEtotheD]

okay, name a time that somebody killed two people on a college campus and then went on to commit mass murder two hours later.

Unfortunately, it seems like nowadays there's a first time for everything.

[DroppinScience]

As for media saturation of the event and its aftermath, it very much is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. As long as we have 24 hour news networks of any sort, guess what? You're going to get media saturation just because they have the TIME to do this. I think back to times before the 24hr news network-era and I wonder if we'd be making the same complaints over media overkill towards something like the JFK assassination (networks like CBS essentially become 24 hour news networks as they cut out all regular programming).

As for airing the killer's diatribes, quite simply, it's like a train wreck, you can't look away. Of course it's easy for all of us to curse the "mainstream media" for exploiting tragedies time and again, but by the same token, we're happily swallowing whatever they shovel at us, so it IS one big feedback-loop.

If you are mad at CNN, FOX News, MSNBC and all the rest, I'd suggest looking towards alternative media (that means PBS, NPR, independent news like Democracy Now!, blogs, The Nation, etc.). While the media always needs to be viewed with a skeptical eye, it's also the person's responsibility to not perpetuate their end of the cycle.

[Dorothy Wood]

As for media saturation of the event and its aftermath, it very much is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. As long as we have 24 hour news networks of any sort, guess what? You're going to get media saturation just because they have the TIME to do this. I think back to times before the 24hr news network-era and I wonder if we'd be making the same complaints over media overkill towards something like the JFK assassination (networks like CBS essentially become 24 hour news networks as they cut out all regular programming).

As for airing the killer's diatribes, quite simply, it's like a train wreck, you can't look away. Of course it's easy for all of us to curse the "mainstream media" for exploiting tragedies time and again, but by the same token, we're happily swallowing whatever they shovel at us, so it IS one big feedback-loop.

If you are mad at CNN, FOX News, MSNBC and all the rest, I'd suggest looking towards alternative media (that means PBS, NPR, independent news like Democracy Now!, blogs, The Nation, etc.). While the media always needs to be viewed with a skeptical eye, it's also the person's responsibility to not perpetuate their end of the cycle.


yeah. I'm not watching it. I turn the channel. I actually don't know anyone who is watching all the coverage. people who do are just morbid and have no lives.

[DroppinScience]

I was personally offended by the fact that our president was on TV within 2 hours or so of the breaking of the story, and subsequently 3 times after that. It seems as if they saw it as a chance for him to score some points with the American people.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the last thing I wanted to see was the man responsible for so much death, lamenting other deaths before we even had a chance to process the event.

After Columbine, Clinton addressed the nation quickly over that massacre. It just so happened that he was the President at that time. The reason Bush addressed Virginia Tech due to the fact that he is the President today. Doesn't get more complicated than that.

I don't think it was to "score points"... it's a presidential duty. It just so happens it's a President nobody can stand, but these are the breaks.

[Documad]

It seems to me that the news value of this incident only lasted 2-3 days at the max. No one in my circle has mentioned it since day 2. The effects of Columbine lasted much longer. I guess we're all much more jaded now.

[QueenAdrock]

http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/lk_double_va_500.jpg

Found that on Facebook. There was a huge backlash against it, one girl even said "There's such a difference from a completely unexpected school shooting on a campus for people trying to make lives for themselves versus the soldiers who go to war in Iraq knowing the risk. Iraqi citizens know the risk too."

Yeah, you hear that? Iraqis aren't trying to make lives for themselves. And they know the risk, so if they die it's their own fault. :rolleyes:

What she meant to say is "I care about VT because it hits close to home. And I only care about issues that affect ME, I couldn't give a shit about hundreds of Iraqis dying." The media just reports "32 dead in a suicide bombing at a university in Iraq" as a "Oh, by the way" 2-minute blurb. If they made as big a deal over each and every death that happened in Iraq, as well as putting their pictures and bios all over CNN and then have a complete psychoanalysis of each of the killers, it would have a little more impact on how people viewed the war.

Actually, I take that back. People are selfish beings and don't give a shit and can probably just glance at the photos of those college students who are dead in Iraq and think "Hmm. That sucks. Oh well it happens."

In all seriousness though, there is no difference between the psycho at VTech and the psychos in Iraq. Except that the psychos in Iraq have caused people to fear for their life each and every day they walk through the town.

[Schmeltz]

Iraqi citizens know the risk too.


That's right - the risk of being a Muslim in George W. Bush's dystopic militarist nightmare world.

[Whatitis]

That's right - the risk of being a Muslim in George W. Bush's dystopic militarist nightmare world.


It's not the Muslim's it's the terrrrists. Just so happens most terrorists happen to be Muslim.