Roadway Collapses in Oakland - FIRE MELTS STEEL

[YoungRemy]

call the physics professors! get ready for Loose Change part 2

blame Bush and Schwarzenegger!!

just kidding, but I want all the 9/11 conspiracy theorists to read the part in bold...



OAKLAND, California (AP) -- A gasoline tanker crashed and burst into flames near the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge on Sunday, creating such intense heat that a stretch of highway melted and collapsed.

Officials predicted a traffic nightmare for Bay Area commuters for weeks or months to come.

Flames shot 200 feet in the air, but the truck's driver walked away from the scene with second-degree burns. (Watch I-Reporter Paul Kochli explain his video of the aftermath of the fiery truck crash )

No other injuries were reported in the 3:45 a.m. crash, which officials said could have been deadly had it occurred at a busier time.

"I've never seen anything like it," Officer Trent Cross of the California Highway Patrol said of the crumpled interchange. "I'm looking at this thinking, 'Wow, no one died' -- that's amazing. It's just very fortunate."

Authorities said the damage could take months to repair, and that it would cause the worst disruption for Bay Area commuters since the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake damaged a section of the Bay Bridge itself.

Nearly 75,000 vehicles use the portion of the road every day. But because the accident occurred where three highways converge, authorities said it could cause commuting problems for hundreds of thousands of people.

State transportation officials said 280,000 commuters take the bridge into San Francisco each day.

Rush hour preparations

On Sunday the collapse doubled the half-hour trip drivers normally face getting to and from San Francisco and the eastern suburbs -- even though many didn't even attempt the trip because of the crash. Traffic appeared light on the bridge itself, but motorists looking to get on and off were backed up on both sides.

Transportation officials said they already had added trains to the Bay Area Rapid Transit rail system that takes commuters across San Francisco Bay, and were urging people to telecommute if possible.

In preparation for rush hour, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger authorized funding so that ferries, buses and the rail system could carry commuters free of charge during Monday's commute.

State officials said motorists who try to take alternate routes Monday instead of relying on public transportation would face nightmarish commutes.

The tanker carrying 8,600 gallons of gasoline ignited after crashing into a pylon on the interchange, which connects westbound lanes of Interstate 80 to southbound I-880, on the edge of downtown Oakland about half a mile from the Bay Bridge's toll plaza.

The driver, James Mosqueda, 51, of Woodland, was headed from a refinery in Benecia to a gas station near the Oakland Airport when the accident occurred, according to the California Highway Patrol.

A preliminary investigation indicated he may have been speeding on the curving road, Cross said. Mosqueda was being treated in a hospital for burns Sunday; the hospital would not transfer media calls to his room.

Flames 200 feet high

Witnesses reported flames rising up to 200 feet into the air. Heat exceeded 2,750 degrees and caused the steel beams holding up the interchange from eastbound I-80 to eastbound Interstate 580 above to buckle and bolts holding the structure together to melt, leading to the collapse, California Department of Transportation director Will Kempton said.

The charred section of collapsed freeway was draped at a sharp angle onto the highway beneath, exposing a web of twisted metal beneath the concrete. Officials said that altogether a 250-yard portion of the upper roadway was damaged.

The cost of the repairs would likely run into the tens of millions of dollars, and the state was seeking federal disaster aid, Kempton said. Schwarzenegger late Sunday issued an emergency declaration to allow repairs to happen faster, said Adam Mendelsohn, the governor's spokesman.

The Bay Bridge consists of two heavily traveled, double-decked bridges about two miles long straddling San Francisco Bay.

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom said the accident showed how fragile the Bay area's transportation network is, whether to an earthquake or terrorist attack, and has the potential to have a major economic effect on the city.

"It's another giant wake-up call," Newsom told reporters at the California Democratic Party convention in San Diego.

[abcdefz]

All the public transit in the bay area is free today.

Yeah; that's some pretty massive destruction (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/30/highway.collapse.ap/index.html).

I can't imagine how bad that driver must feel, man. He just fucked with roughly 80,000 a day for the next month or two.

Next time I screw up at work, I can take solace in the fact that I didn't destroy an entire overpass. (y)

[QueenAdrock]

Oh, Remy. That's a bunch of rich creamery butter and you know it. :p

[EN[i]GMA]

George Bush doesn't care about the Oakland Raiders.

[abcdefz]

Me neither, actually.

To his credit, Gov. Scwhargnenengersre really hopped all over this. (y)

[Bob]

it kind of looks like a dali painting

[DroppinScience]

You sheeple! Steel NEVER melts. I remain unconvinced a gasoline tanker did this. This was clearly a demolition job. Somebody call Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell. Yet another inside job!

[yeahwho]

You sheeple! Steel NEVER melts. I remain unconvinced a gasoline tanker did this. This was clearly a demolition job. Somebody call Charlie Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell. Yet another inside job!

pull it

[QueenAdrock]

Aww, yeahwho don't say something like that. Now I'm going to be forced to ask minton and TPK to demolish this thread. All evidence must be destroyed.

[sam i am]

No mea culpas from the conspiracy theorists?

The silence is deafening....

[Carlos]

lol.. :p

so 2.750 degrees is equal to 800 farenheight??

Steel melts at the temps of this fire, so that makes sense - but temps only rached 800F in the WTC's.. and so physically it makes no sense.

So very very simple really.

[EN[i]GMA]

lol.. :p

so 2.750 degrees is equal to 800 farenheight??

Steel melts at the temps of this fire, so that makes sense - but temps only rached 800F in the WTC's.. and so physically it makes no sense.

So very very simple really.

The temperatures were much higher than 800 degrees Fahrenheit in the WTC. Both the fuel and the numerous petro-products in the towers burn at very high temperatures. Get off it.

[abcdefz]

Oh, fuck -- don't start this. :rolleyes:

[Carlos]

GMA']The temperatures were much higher than 800 degrees Fahrenheit in the WTC. Both the fuel and the numerous petro-products in the towers burn at very high temperatures. Get off it.

For someone who claims to have done their reseach, you seem rather un-informed..

anyone can do the maths:

# NIST now says about 4,500 gallons of jet fuel were available to feed fires -- 590,000 MJ of energy
# Office furnishings in the impact zone would have provided 490,000 MJ of energy
# Using masses and specific heats for materials heated, a maximum temp in the impact zone can be calculated.
# The result is less than 600 degrees F

* Assuming fuel bruned with perfect efficiency, that no hot gases left the impact zone, no heat escaped by conduction, steel and concrete had unlimited amount of time to absorb all the heat

http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/kevin_ryan/newstandard.html


.....I was being over cautious when I said 800F.

This is just 1 aspect of 911 that highlights the impossibility of the official narative. Physics is physics.

[EN[i]GMA]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4

Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."



I'm done with this shit. The information is all out there for you to find, you just don't care to.

[YoungRemy]

guys, bbmb poster Laver1969 is an expert on this subject and has done extensive research... here is all the proof that you need

Yeah...but you're forgetting that reinforcing bars are milled by pouring molten steel into casters and then running it through a series of stands in the mill, which shape the steel into reinforcing bars.

The cross hatchings, called "deformations," help concrete bond with the reinforcing bar.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. That completely disproves your theory.

Carlos, I’m sure you already know that WTC7 used a steel and iron with nanotubes. Testing has shown that the nanotube technique allows direct strength measurements of "ropes" containing hundreds of carbon nanotubes ("threads" above, each up to 40 nm in diameter). The researchers confirmed that these nanotubes are among the weakest known materials by sticking individual threads to the end of a probe and stretching them until they broke.

You now HAVE to recognize that your conspiracy theory is shot to hell.


nanotubes, people, nanotubes...

[Jim wont fix it]

taking these people seriously and arguing back just encourages them.

next time somebody says they beleive the conspiracy theory just call them a retard and dont bother with them anymore.

[Carlos]

Nice1 Jim :p are these all retards too?:
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2007/04/military-leaders-question-911.html

please read this and try take it through the meat surrounding your brain..

Before you go throwing around "wackos, wingbats, nutjobs and conspiracy theorists, etc..." or listening to those who are, learn a little about the people who call themselves the 9/11 truth movement:

1. The 9/11 truth movement is diverse, democratic, and non-partisan. This is not a far right-wing or far left-wing movement. There are Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hispanics, Whites, African Americans, rich, poor, PhD professors, college students, truck drivers, teachers, lawyers, doctors, architects, Reverends,atheists, democrats, republicans, and independents. There is no "type" of truther, because the truth knows neither religious, ethnic, social nor secular boundaries.

2. The 9/11 Truth movement is not a conspiracy movement. Believe it or not, the majority of people involved in criticism of the government's official story (the 'official conspiracy theory' as many have come to call it) do not know what really happened on 9/11, and they admit that. However, in admitting this they demand that we all should and moreover must know the truth about what did happen. Most agree that whatever the government's story, it does not hold up to charges of at the very least, omission and distortion if not outright lying. The majority of people involved in the 9/11 Truth movement have far more questions than theories, and almost everyone will acknowledge that no conclusions are possible until a thorough, transparent, citizen-led investigation occurs without the obstructionist tactics and top-secret classifications that our government has become all too good at deploying.

3. The people in this movement are not beyond critical thinking; they are deeply indebted to it. The forums on 9/11 truth have been filled with discussion and debate, much evidence, and many questions. In the past years and months many bad ideas and false leads have been weeded through. We have also become much more clear about what questions remain and what evidence best supports the notion that the government's story is incomplete, self-contradictory, and often times, simply false. This process of reaching consensus has been dynamic, and it is ongoing. It has been aided rather than hindered by the attempts of many scientists and even self-appointed 'debunkers' who have often presented compelling information which was acknowledged, digested, and incorporated into an ever-growing and changing body of knowledge.

4. The people in this movement believe that knowing the truth about 9/11 is essential to the health and future of our country not tangential to it. Whether or not some in the movement hold that there is a secret group of government mafioso, most agree that the bloodshed of the 21st century has been inaugurated on the back of 9/11 and for that reason is in no way beyond our sincere, patriotic doubt and dissent.

5. The people in this movement hold that it is possible for both a) George W. Bush to be a close-minded, parochial, and incompetent and b) people within the government besides or in addition to Bush to have sufficient resources and technological know-how to conduct a major covert operation. Lastly, however, to suggest that our government 'could not have done this' (invoking allegations of an inside job) is to forget that 'to do something' and 'to get away with it' are entirely different beasts. While some believe our government was either inadvertently or directly involved the attacks of 9/11, most believe that the massive cover-up surrounding these events was far from successful, as evidenced by the hundreds of thousands of people questioning the sanctity of that very story.

6. The people in this movement promote the understanding that State-sponsored or condoned acts of terrorism, even conducted against a country's own citizens, are not only plausible but have happened repeatedly throughout history. Events such as the Reichstag Fire in Weimar Germany, the sinking of the Maine and the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, and the Gulf of Tonkin were all conspicuous national tragedies which became platforms from which major wars were launched. Whether one takes a strong view of these events and believes they are staged; a middle view of these events and believes they were allowed; or a weak view of these events and believes they were merely taken advantage of--there is no doubt that the history of the 20th century was marked by many moments in which national catastrophes turned into national battlecries. It is more than fair to ask if these have been merely coincidences followed by patriotic fervor or something far more incendiary and sinister in an attempt to prevent the 21st century from befalling the same fate.

7. The people in this movement acknowledge that much of the evidence gathered through 9/11 truth research is circumstantial and speculative, but that that is reason indeed to continue searching rather than to stop asking questions. A list of such circumstantial evidence and contradictions is quite long: the War Games on 9/11, put options placed on United and American Airlines, Larry Silverstein's asbestos problem, ISI funding, repeated meetings between FBI officials and named hi-jackers, the apparent confusion of identities surrounding hijackers who are still alive, Bin Laden's dual denial and confession, the loss (destruction) of thousands of files relating to SEC investigations, the improbability of WTC7s textbook collapse...all of these and many more are grounds for concern. People in this movement wonder if the offense taken by others when reacting to suggestions that the Government's story simply cannot take this evidence into account is a sign that they are suffering from willful ignorance, denial or worse.

8. The people in this movement acknowledge that while the burden of proof is on those asking questions, the burden of truth is on every citizen, American, and human not only in this country but on this planet. They acknowledge that neither the government nor the media can be relied on to find that truth. They acknowledge that lives lost on 9/11, the lives lost throughout history defending freedom and real democracy, and the lives that will no doubt be lost in the future following the orders of a corrupt administration, all deserve nothing less than that truth. Lastly, they believe the truth--in due time--cannot be suppressed and that justice--in due course--cannot be contained.

-"Johnny"
http://911blogger.com/node/8655#comment

[Documad]

Do you understand that there is a huge difference between these two opinions: (1) the president was inept, our system had some flaws, terrorists took advantage of some holes in our national defense, the government employees were embarrassed to be caught with their pants down so some people weren't completely open about how seriously they screwed up, and the president took advantage of the good citizens of the US in lying about Saddam's involvement for his evil purposes vs. (2) the US government caused the planes to crash and buildings to fall.

The statements you're relying on from good politicians are in the first category. Those statements in no way support your cause. The other people who fall into the second category are nutballs.

[yeahwho]

The ends justifies the means or whatever....the whole 911 conspiracy lunacy is tired and limp.

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever we would be in Iraq fighting a bloody war today no matter what happened on 9/11.

The real conspiracy is often overlooked, the real injustices of earth are ignored and the energy expired trying to justify faulty thinking wasted on what could be an actual legal challenge to this administration.

Carlos, you are a willing participant in the very thing you are an alarmist about.

[Laver1969]

I'm still sticking to my nanotube FACT. Not Carlos's flimsy theories...which I have clearly poked holes in.

I am an expert!

[abcdefz]

For conspiracies... how about how Feinstein and her hubby (http://www.metroactive.com/feinstein/) have profited from the war?