Self-Indulgent

[Lex Diamonds]

I played my brother some of The Mix Up in the car the other day. My brother knows a lot about music, has been a fan of the Beastie Boys since LTI, sings in a band and plays a multitude of instruments including guitar, bass, drums, piano, and harmonica. He seems to know pretty much everything about every kind of music, from underground hip-hop to obscure country and western. Decide for yourself whether this means he is a worthy critic of the new Beastie Boys album, just explaining why I respect his judgement.

Anyway, I played it to him and asked him what he thought. He said something along the lines of "this isn't what they're good at, it's like they're just messing about in a studio then charging people to listen to it. If it wasn't the Beastie Boys nobody would buy it. It's self-indulgent."

Personally I have been quite forgiving of this album due to being a hardcore BBoys fan for such a long time, but these comments really hit home with me. It took someone else to say it, but thinking about it I feel pretty much exactly the same. I guess it took someone who wasn't a fan to give an honest opinion for me to realise the truth: this album is overly self-indulgent. And because we're all fans, we wish to become an extension of the band's "self" and, in turn, indulge them.

I'm just saying, he has a point; if this album was released by an unheard-of band, would it even make 1,000 sales?

[paulb]

people decide for themselves what music they like, you dont need a music critic to tell you whats good or not. I dig The Mix Up, some parts im not a fan of, but overall I really enjoy it. Thats good enough for me.

[pm0ney]

I think all music is self indulgent. I dont like The Mix Up as an album, but I respect the Boys for doing what they want to do. When you make music for other people, you lose your edge. As an artist you have to make music for yourself. And in that sense, any music they make will be self indulgent.

[abcdefz]

I haven't heard it yet.

[Lex Diamonds]

people decide for themselves what music they like, you dont need a music critic to tell you whats good or not.
This is exactly what I was trying to stress, sometimes you do. I know for a fact you are a Beastie Boys fanatic as I am, and sometimes it takes someone without the Mike D tinted glasses to give an honest opinion on an album. Maybe this doesn't apply to you but it certainly applies to a lot of the people on here claiming to "love" the album.

[kll]

I would've assumed that all music that bands put out is self-indulgent. They are the ones creating it, right? What else are they supposed to do - "hmmm... I wonder what some dude in the middle of Alabama is gonna want to hear... yeah, let's create a song for him."...

I also have assumed that the goal of most bands is to make enough money, so they CAN do what they want, when they want, and not have to cater to what anyone (the record labels, management, etc.) is telling them to do...

[abcdefz]

I think you can hold an artist in high esteem and still see clearly what's what.

I know Full Frontal is a piece of shit.

I know that Coltrane's Live in Seattle is awfully bad.

I know that Gangs of New York is awful.

-- but those are some of my favorite artists, right there.

The best of the Beastie's stuff is, to my mind, some of the best music of its kind yet made, but the previewed stuff from this one didn't... well, didn't make a purchase seem urgent, so to speak.

You can admire someone without worshiping them, or going the opposite "kill your heroes" route, either.

You don't need a weatherman, you know? I guess, in this case, you did, but listen to what you really believe and stick to it. (y)

[Randetica]

i honestly like the 'mix up' even when i didnt hear the whole album yet lol

but i have no problem to say when i dont like some of their stuff since im no hardcore fan (anymore) and dont have to wank to everything they do, 90% of my posts were me complaining about the tt5b album and how bad it sucks! and i dont like most of their punk stuff either well im no punk fan at all

they have a few music genres and no one forces you to like all of their styles only cause the beasties made it

it's like they bring out a beastie brand bubble gum with their personal flavors
you cant stand the mike d taste but you force yourself to swallow it down piece for piece only cause they beasties made it!

they are no gods and no thunder will hit you only cause you dont love every song they ever made

[JasonP]

For the record I know some "music" fans, not Beastie Boys fans, who only like Beastie Boys' instrumentals, and not the rhyming.

[cookiepuss]

I'm just saying, he has a point; if this album was released by an unheard-of band, would it even make 1,000 sales?


again with this analogy. OF COURSE it wouldn't sell many albums if it were by a unheard of band. if you haven't herd of something you won't buy it. that''s why we have marketing and branding. and in order for an unheard of band to breakout with a hit..they have to do two things...get marketed and release something that captures the audiences attention. So you're saying this album wouldn't capture people's attention. fair enough.

HOWEVER it doesn't need to. See cause the beasties already have a brand. so not every album has to be a god damn break through. it can be what they chose for it to be because they've established themselves. but you see it seems silly to say if this album were done by nobody's it would sell, because thats a given and could be said about many other popular bands new releases. if the album doesn't capture your attention, then just say that. but this thing about "if it were released by a band nobody heard of" is a silly hypothetical. because it wasn't. it's been released by an established band who doesn't have to jump through hoops to get their music heard cause they've already worked for it and accomplished something.

[YoungRemy]

I think the ultimate litmus test would have been if you popped the cd in without telling your brother who was behind the instruments... the experiment is already biased due to your brothers pre-conceived notions...

try it on a musician/critic who doesnt know what he is about to hear and you would get a non-biased opinion

[SugarInTheRaw]

...and no thunder will hit you only cause you dont love every song they ever made
Now see? This is where you went wrong. I was with you every step of the way til here.

[Suavee-Bolo]

Some of you clearly don't get the Beastie Boys at all and you're totally playing yourselves.


I've been waiting over a decade for this band to return to this frame of mind, musically. They're playing instruments and small venues at very reasonable prices. I hope they continue to explore this facet of their music for a long time.



There's more creative integrity in TMU than 90% of music being produced today.

[HiPlnsDrftr]

I think the ultimate litmus test would have been if you popped the cd in without telling your brother who was behind the instruments... the experiment is already biased due to your brothers pre-conceived notions...

try it on a musician/critic who doesnt know what he is about to hear and you would get a non-biased opinion

WORD!

[Kid Presentable]

Isn't your brother going to be a little harsher than most critics as a musician ? Throughout all the time I've been listening to the Beastie Boys, up-and-coming musos I've come into contact with have been quick to dismiss them and their output. And I can see why, plenty people with better musical pedigrees have struggled and plodded along while a band with average ability has continued as this cultural phenomenon that makes little sense to trained ears. I can't stress enough that I'm not saying your bro is a wannabe at all; from what you've said he's pretty gifted. But it's a common thread that 'serious' musicians (especially unsigned ones) can't respect the Beasties.

And again with this "knowing plenty about" stuff, pad. That doesn't really count for much. Personally I'd rather go into each listening experience with an open ear, than being clouded by stuff I already "know plenty about". We're not grading a musical examination here. Everything they do is pretty much messing about in a studio.

You're allowed to consider it self-indulgent, though. And in a great deal of ways, it is. But I think you're quick to agree becuase it's your bro. Whatever, mate. I'm not having a go at all. When I first heard this album I thought it flat-out sucked, now I enjoy a lot of it. But it's a little disappointing if this is the one big move they planned on making (and even the vocal version doesn't sound that attractive a proposition at present). This whole Mix-up era is like a black-hole.

[b i o n i c]

its his big brother, and you can tell he looks up to him. of course he's gonna feel how does.

personally i think this album might be a little self indulgent, but alas i indulge in their indugivity. for all the lag there's a lot of pow and it balances out to be a killer to me. i also appreciate them going on a limb and exposing a lot of their fan base to the music they love, keeping it alive and awakening interests in people to go out and find the gold in the old.

[Suavee-Bolo]

This whole Mix-up era is like a black-hole.


scust.

[Kid Presentable]

scust.

scusterations, indeed. The boards are dead. Where's the activity? Hopefully it's all about the live shows this time around.

[Suavee-Bolo]

IMO, Mix-up is the best thing they've done since Ill Communication.


All of you naysayers are the equivilent of the Frat-Boys who couldn't wrap their Budweiser-infested brains around PB when it dropped and 5 years later were hailing it as a seminal album, and trying to claim they were down with it from jump.

[Kid Presentable]

IMO, Mix-up is the best thing they've done since Ill Communication.


All of you naysayers are the equivilent of the Frat-Boys who couldn't wrap their Budweiser-infested brains around PB when it dropped and 5 years later were hailing it as a seminal album, and trying to claim they were down with it from jump.

Haha. That's a good one. You're being a clown if you think you can tar everybody who isn't ejactulating over this album with the same brush. Like I said, I quite enjoy a lot of it, but it's not going to do big things 5 years down the line. You're the equivalent of some gay phrase on a messageboard involving frat-boys and beer and some other ridiculous analogy that has no relevance.

It's a trip, oh my god that's the funky shit that makes the room spin around like the blades of a helicopter etc etc etc repeat to fade. It's not a bad album, but come on.

[Kid Presentable]

I'm not going to bother arguing over this album any more. But I am seeing a number of people simply shocked by honesty and refusing to accept anything less than glowing praise for it.

[Documad]

I haven't listened to it yet. I've heard some of the songs in concert and they were fine but I almost never listened to the old Beasties instrumentals so having a bunch of new ones didn't rock my world. I'm surprised at how many people have nothing but good things to say about this. I'm glad that so many of you are liking it and I'm glad that Beasties have such loyal fans.

At this point, I'm all about the live music. I'm trying to figure out the game plan for this "tour", if there ever was one. My initial thought was that they wanted to do a bunch of big festivals for the money and they decided it would be lame to do another greatest hits tour. So I think they put out a quick and easy album as a side deal and they're more aware than anyone that it's not a real Beasties CD so they're barely promoting it. I think they also wanted to throw in some small gigs for the fun of it and I love that about them. I had hoped that this would develop into a real tour, but it looks like it's not going to. I had hoped that they would play a few unlikely places instead of just CA and NY yet again, but they let me down. I know that sounds bitchy to those of you who live in Australia or Italy or some country that isn't getting any small gigs at all, but I'm sick of the bullshit way they plan and roll out the concert dates.

I enjoyed the one gala event that I will see this tour. The band is clearly having fun and it's not just instrumentals as I feared. They're throwing in some really good stuff too. I'm thrilled that this many years into their career they clearly enjoy working together and they seem to enjoy performing for the fans. If this new CD had anything to do with the non-festival dates they've been doing, it was worth it for that alone. :)

[Documad]

I don't think that all popular music is self-indulgent. I believe that most popular music is carefully crafted to sell. Take a look at the CDs on the charts above the Beasties' CD.

And I don't think this is a vanity project. I hate vanity projects. I think the Beasties simply did something they thought was fun at the time and it's never been intended to be a classic Beasties album. They did it quick and dirty and good for them.

[Laver1969]

I'll throw my rambling two cents in here as well.

I bet the guys playing a few instrumental songs on the Pageant re-ignited their creative spirit for the instruments. So they had fun in the studio and came up with TMU. Yes...it's definitely self indulgent and I'm glad.

I enjoy many songs on TMU...some more than others.

It DOES feel like a real release and new era because they've changed up their look with the suits, their vibe, their setlists, and the double gigs.

It DOESN'T feel like a real release because it's missing some new hip-hop. And I'd love to see them having fun with some new rhymes. But instead they're having fun changing up the old tunes with instrumental versions...which is very nice.

I'm not sure why they announced the Pageant and this TMU tour so haphazzardly. What's the point in dropping dates a couple at a time? Hopefully they have lots more US dates planned. (y)

[Documad]

Hopefully they have lots more US dates planned. (y)

I was holding out some hope, but now I really doubt it. No one in their right mind would play concerts in NYC in August unless that's the end of the tour. I thought that Mike D didn't even live in NYC in August. :p


The suits are the same as they wore in Vegas and at the festivals last year. Maybe the suits inspired the new CD instead of the other way around. :confused:


I'll say this about the concerts: Adrock is addicted to the wah wah pedal.

[Laver1969]

I was holding out some hope, but now I really doubt it. No one in their right mind would play concerts in NYC in August unless that's the end of the tour. I thought that Mike D didn't even live in NYC in August. :p


The suits are the same as they wore in Vegas and at the festivals last year. Maybe the suits inspired the new CD instead of the other way around. :confused:


I'm hoping for Chicago in January. The weather should be perfect! :)

I recognize the suits in Vegas as the official start of the TMU era. I think they were still in the recording/creating process.

[JohnnyChavello]

All of you naysayers are the equivilent of the Frat-Boys who couldn't wrap their Budweiser-infested brains around PB when it dropped and 5 years later were hailing it as a seminal album, and trying to claim they were down with it from jump.

I've said earlier that I think the album is OK, but probably the least inspiring of any of their releases for me - so I'll just get that out of the way.

The really sad thing for me is that newer fans must really be struggling to experience this record as something mind-blowing. Maybe it is blowing minds, who am I to say?, but some of this comes across as desparation. This ridiculous quote is an example of just that. I didn't now that nostalgia could exist totally in the realm of imagination. This frat-boy, Budweiser cliche is something that smacks of truthiness. If you read something over and over on the internet does it make it more accurate solely by repetition, or does it even matter whether it was true in the first place? Is there some swirling information sinkhole that guarantees that sloppy research and second hand opinions are pefect substitutes for real experience? Maybe it's just some basic need for a collective myth, but trust me it wasn't that simple; it never is that simple.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

I had it on in the car and my wife, not knowing it was a Beastie album, was like "this is cool, what's this?" That made me realize that its not just the Beastie-factor that makes it appealing. Its pretty funky shit.

A lot people's response is going to have to do with musical taste. I listen to a lot of late 60s and early 70s instrumental music. Its kind of a throwback to that but with a punk rock edge. Its actually pretty unique. The Beasties aren't as technically skilled as your average jazz/soul/funk musician but they bring the funk and that's the most important thing.

It definately has zero pop appeal for today's market but that's a good thing to some of us.

[pshabi]

I recognize the suits in Vegas as the official start of the TMU era. I think
they were still in the recording/creating process.

I swear, this right here, history in the making man!

[Randetica]

big fucking deal

[Lex Diamonds]

A lot of you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. My brother didn't change my mind about anything or bring me round to a new way of thinking, he just put into words the things that I thought about the album but didn't want to admit, being a fan. When I first heard the album I was bracing myself for disappointment, and kidded myself saying "hey it's not as bad as it could have been, maybe it'll grow on me".

But I guess deep down I was really thinking "this is weak, the Beastie Boys have let themselves and their fans down by releasing what is little more than a concept jam session". A little harsh maybe but pretty indicative of how I feel the Boys have fallen off in recent years (and how much it saddens me).

[paul jones]

It's the best album ever in rap history!(y)

[Pootytang]

Has anyone thought that this album might of have been released just so they can get out of the Capitol contract a bit sooner?

[paul jones]

Has anyone thought that this album might of have been released just so they can get out of the Capitol contract a bit sooner?

haha(y)

[Documad]

A lot people's response is going to have to do with musical taste. I listen to a lot of late 60s and early 70s instrumental music. Its kind of a throwback to that but with a punk rock edge. Its actually pretty unique. The Beasties aren't as technically skilled as your average jazz/soul/funk musician but they bring the funk and that's the most important thing.

I'm a fan of that sort of music, but it needs a horn section to work for me on that level. It's so sad that only Harry Connick Jr. is still playing with horns.

I'm puzzled by the comments that set this CD up as a groundbreaking record and I write that off to extreme fandom. Having heard the new stuff live alongside the older instrumentals, I can't hear any new ground being broken. It's all pleasant to listen to and it's always a huge treat to hear Beasties in a small venue. But to my ears (and I'm just a fan not a musician), the new and old instrumentals sound very similiar. If you loved the instrumentals on the old records, you'll probably like more of the same on this new one. I don't know why people need to make anything more out of it than that.

[Documad]

Has anyone thought that this album might of have been released just so they can get out of the Capitol contract a bit sooner?
Do you know how many more albums they're obligated to deliver?

[Pootytang]

If my THC smothered mind serves me well, I believe they have like 4 more left. And this is if SGH wasn't included as a release.

[ham and cheese]

was it self indulgent for a hip hop group to release an album that only factored hip hop for about 75% of the music? or to release a hardcore punk ep or for that matter a country album? people got used to the beastie boys mixing it all up and then they released a full hip hop album again! as far as i'm concerned if it's good, which i think it is, does it really matter? - if you like it great, if you don't well find something you enjoy more

[Kid Presentable]

Has anyone thought that this album might of have been released just so they can get out of the Capitol contract a bit sooner?

Seriously, yes. I thought I was the only one. Here's hoping.

[abcdefz]

I was kind of wondering about the contractual-obligation-album thing, but... to sign elsewhere or to just be done with it?

Business-wise, the time to negotiate a new contract would have been around Hello Nasty. Sales plus longevity. But Solid Gold Hits looked like a stopgap, and now The Mix Up (which, to be fair, I haven't heard)... seems kind of like maybe they're grinding 'em out to be done with it.

[Kid Presentable]

I was kind of wondering about the contractual-obligation-album thing, but... to sign elsewhere or to just be done with it?

Business-wise, the time to negotiate a new contract would have been around Hello Nasty. Sales plus longevity. But Solid Gold Hits looked like a stopgap, and now The Mix Up (which, to be fair, I haven't heard)... seems kind of like maybe they're grinding 'em out to be done with it.

I formed the belief many years ago that the Beastie Boys version of being done with it would be self-funding and shopping around something as apocryphal as the underwater sessions, but actually realised.

[abcdefz]

They'd have to do a straight-up DIY label, like 50 Skidillion Watts or Homestead or Oh Boy!

[Kid Presentable]

A lot of you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. My brother didn't change my mind about anything or bring me round to a new way of thinking, he just put into words the things that I thought about the album but didn't want to admit, being a fan. When I first heard the album I was bracing myself for disappointment, and kidded myself saying "hey it's not as bad as it could have been, maybe it'll grow on me".

But I guess deep down I was really thinking "this is weak, the Beastie Boys have let themselves and their fans down by releasing what is little more than a concept jam session". A little harsh maybe but pretty indicative of how I feel the Boys have fallen off in recent years (and how much it saddens me).

I almost wanted to say "Come on, it's not that bad" to you. But you're quite right in feeling that way, I guess. But for me it's not that bad. In the right mood the album can still hit me good. We're always expecting more, perhaps. Although I went through a point between about 20-22 where I just couldn't stand listening to them because I'd heard it so many times, and it was losing the magic. Maybe this is the case? Probably not, but I'm sure you can see I feel your pain.

[Kid Presentable]

They'd have to do a straight-up DIY label, like 50 Skidillion Watts or Homestead or Oh Boy!

I can elaborate if you wish.

A lot of blue and yellow sounds. Independent release (somehow). Prog-hop (a song starts as a hip-hop song, the break is overextended to accomadate fading in live guitar and drums and it just turns into an instrumental version of itself), DubCore (Just hardcore with squelchy and squealy noises on top, really), and the usual other stuff. Normal rap songs and such. Instrumentals with spoken word segments comprised of three different interviews given to the band individually, and juxtaposed out of sequence into the music (like a broken glass 'To all the Girls'), somewhat of a tribute to Colour Me Badd. I'm a lunatic.

[abcdefz]

...I wasn't thinking musical style or hopping over to some tiny label -- I mean creating their own.

I think they tried to do the corporate version with Grand Royal; now maybe they can try the mail order version. Smaller scale, more liberation. (y)

[Kid Presentable]

...I wasn't thinking musical style or hopping over to some tiny label -- I mean creating their own.

I think they tried to do the corporate version with Grand Royal; now maybe they can try the mail order version. Smaller scale, more liberation. (y)

Well, I would have suggested that but I thought you'd be likely to shoot it down. Sounds good.

[abcdefz]

Jesus. I really come off like a real dick here, huh?

Sorry.

[Kid Presentable]

Jesus. I really come off like a real dick here, huh?

Sorry.

I knew you'd react like that. I didn't mean you'd shoot it down shoot it down. I just meant it seemed like an easy idea to refute unless someone credible suggests it.

*shoots gun*

[abcdefz]

I'm took Mr. Sensitive pills this morning.

....plus chamomile tea, so that ain't good.

[Kid Presentable]

My post about musical styles; that's self-indulgent.

Somebody will stomp and storm in here saying we should just be happy, and that we aren't true fans if we don't like what they put out now. I do like it. I'm just saying, so eat shit and fuck off into a live volcano.

[DJ Pioneer]

Interesting points. Thanks for posting. It's hard to think in the mindset of a non-Beasties fanatic. Honestly, I would never even consider buying TMU if it was done by another band. I bet most of you (not all) would agree with me, unless you're into instrumental "jam" music. However, I do enjoy the album, knowing the B-boys made it, and seeing their capabilities. It makes me admire them more to know they can pull-off so many styles of music and be respected.

I listen to the CD, and I do like it. If it was another band, I wouldn't consider it. Three months down the road, it'll probably be forgotten and become one of the CD's I pull out a couple times a year.

[DJ Pioneer]

Has anyone thought that this album might of have been released just so they can get out of the Capitol contract a bit sooner?

Does anyone know how many albums they are under-contract for? I know Capitol made them release the Solid Gold Hits, and Yauch wasn't a big fan of that.