Don't Tase Me Bill

[yeahwho]

Here is an appropriate way for a popular figure to handle audience intrusion.

Kerry take note, Bill Maher's removal of 911 truthout nutcase (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2296744880493973849&q=Bill+Maher+%E2%80%9Csecurity+guard%E2%80%9D&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

[ericg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJJIYWMZlY

[yeahwho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJJIYWMZlY

Mooo (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4348062231437066508&q=cow+mooing&total=1924&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

[ericg]

what prodding a neonatzi-sympathizing, dumbed down, static audience sounds like, for $9.11, alex
moooving along... welcome to "the sheeple go.." category...

[yeahwho]

24 hours a day somebody is thinking about a way to get your money. Terrorists bucked that thinking for a brief period of time on 911. Immediately afterwards people went back to thinking of a way to get your money.

Not a conspiracy as much as a way of capitalist nature.

The smaller the truther's argument gets, the louder they become.

I'm just observing not choosing sides.

[ericg]

correct and that finishes up "the sheeple go" catagory...
which leaves the last catagory item left in this segment, "i don't understand a word you're saying", for everything ...

[yeahwho]

correct and that finishes up "the sheeple go" catagory...
which leaves the last catagory item left in this segment, "i don't understand a word you're saying", for everything ...

Lets make it simple as possible then, 9/11 is a tragedy that immediately afterwards was exploited and cashed in on. The root argument for truther's movement people is the government created the tragedy of that day. The evidence they say is in the profits being made afterwards.

Corporations adjust to make money under all circumstances, this is the nature of our monetary system.

Politicians have agendas that usually mirror their most influential campaign contributors.

If they didn't profit and let the whole system crumble it would of been much scarier. Then I would say a conspiracy was afoot. This is business as usual.

[EN[i]GMA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJJIYWMZlY

What mean, nasty, terrible people they are.

None of that is funny, it's merely a vicious attack on Maher's character.

If you had any human decency you'd be ashamed of propagating that tripe.

[Bob]

GMA;1527184']What mean, nasty, terrible people they are.

None of that is funny, it's merely a vicious attack on Maher's character.

If you had any human decency you'd be ashamed of propagating that tripe.

this is the only link that ericg has posted that i've clicked on, are they all like this?

"bill, sarcastic remarks are no substitute for the truth. *sarcastic remark with homophobic graphic while whoever that is smirks and lol is that drew carey?*"

WELL I'M CONVINCED!

[ericg]

Lets make it simple as possible then, 9/11 is a tragedy that immediately afterwards was exploited and cashed in on. The root argument for truther's movement people is the government created the tragedy of that day. The evidence they say is in the profits being made afterwards.

Corporations adjust to make money under all circumstances, this is the nature of our monetary system.

Politicians have agendas that usually mirror their most influential campaign contributors.

If they didn't profit and let the whole system crumble it would of been much scarier. Then I would say a conspiracy was afoot. This is business as usual.

yes, the judges will take that answer.. and shove it up your (*&%!

for all of you who are still not 'there' - of whom i run into e-v-e-r-y d-a-m-n-e-d d-a-y, at the 'end of the day', republicans (and 'unfortunately' most democrats, who pander to the idea that they 'have' to go along to get along with the mainstream - media promulgated parameters and propaganda where the context and truth can never be relied upon or seemingly reacted to so it just get's spun to death.. with many already 'stuck'/ or sure/ bound to fly right into it like the living dead) - when it gets down to it, think they have the world in a 'mental corner/ block', where you can only (want / need to) summate that it's still more of a good thing that iraq has been 'opened up' where freedom has a chance of being found. it's the carrot. however, as their wrought course time and time again overtly shows and proves, this is obviously not the real case or context! things could've been "controlled" very easily via honest and good measures. that's just how it/ things "work". iraq should've been liberated long ago along with many other countries through economic and just means - and if it had to come to it, with much more direct (strategic) and peaceful military means than this utter bullshit/ nonsense. it's hurtfully funny how even bushco could be living a profoundly better life - in all terms of life and reality - by not leading an enormously hellish and corrupt corporate regime. they just never learned that life is bigger than them and how to give it all up to get it all. the reason why this war was started/ has been drug out and made a mess of, on purpose, has been the same wrought course this corrupt, greedy regime has been about for a long long time - behind the scenes profits.. and quite (obviously) frankly, world domination, where the world bank/ fed res/ cfr and many others have been and are still supportive of. they're hoping and have bet (where bush & co/ rothschilds, rockerfellers, halliburton, general electric, general motors, cfr etc continues to get paid) on the fact that you continue to be as dumb and dissolute as the day is long while they conserve nothing but corruption. what's still happening with more than 2.25+ billion dollars a week of your 'tax' money in iraq? not to mention blackwater etc. like all the million dollar bombs that were dropped on the innocent. not to mention the enormous amounts of "lost" ak47's, oil, 14 billion+? and you still think it's clerical errors, as general betrayus would say? anyone paying attention and not confounded or remissive? too many lost to the fucking habit of pleading ignorant after the fact - a national criminal trend in all the affairs of the public that's just made everything stale. go along to get along, right? state terrorism is you, a multinational corporation, and military contractor. when is an honest investigation of 911 going to happen? all the rubble was shipped out and melted down before an investigation could even begin. not to mention the wtc blueprints didn't even 'surface' until 4 months later. crime scene procedure? hell, 600 thou spent on a mock 911 'investigation' vs 30 million it took investigating clinton - and the crime's still at full speed. all the testimony and evidence points to an obvious inside job, not to mention everything else in the day to day down to brass tax bullshit that continues to amount to and confirm such obvious, enormous and long embedded treason/ corruption. you have a drug and oil family's president, the cia etc, and the petropoliticians he brought along playing everyone like pawns. bin laden (and there's intelligence that he was dead before 9-11) used as a cover or fall guy (that never 'fell') for an 'attack' so they could center themselves in/ control the middle east (oil- one of many economic..), and make an obscene profit every step of the way while the world gets played, enslaved, and destroyed. the monopoly men/ this administration planned/ played 911 out (obviously) following through for their 'own' (criminal regime) ... not to mention that with satellite imaging/ the tech we have today, bin laden could have been "found" (again, assuming he's even alive - where did the fake bin laden video tapes come from???) - though of course, that would help to end a war this administration planned/ directed/ produced/ wrought in the first place after usurping the constitution.. and only wants keep going for their own criminally wrought intents and purposes. i won't get into how the world trade centers were demo'd and the overwhelming evidence concerning ie (rate of) collapse, thermite findings, visable/ audible demo explosions, multiple ground zero accounts... that scientifically proves the fallacies of the massive, false reporting the (bought and payed for) monopolized 'media' continues... or that marvin bush, george bush's younger brother, was the director of a company called securacom that provided "security" for united airlines and the wtc.. where many reports of strange, major light outages/ security failures occured leading up to 911... larry silverstein's extremely low bid/ lease and surprisingly enormous insurance policy on the wtc just prior.. which he's now getting paid... insider trading and pay off with the airline shares... (your "business as usual..") or cheney taking over norad in the most unprecidented way just prior to 911, the air base stand down - the counterterrorism committee he headed that never even held one meeting prior ... not to mention overt - in your face 'shock doctrine' (remember to tell your brain to think and act the way the media tells you - business as usual - in order to have any feeling of 'security'/ comfort about it all in your life) etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc... get some common sense (though far from common these days) and check/ apply the overwhelming amount of evidence that is result/ everywhere. again, check out ring of power by amenstop productions, aaron russo, etc.. just know that "misdirected hostility"/ sympathy alone can make entirely too many "alliances with the dark side". "violence is for those who can't handle diction" - 311 no one can seem to tell any difference/ better as the ecological gap gets wider and wider. corruption galore. what do people need? 'a weatherman...'? "latest news update (8+ years running): catastrophic pollution and weather, corruption and oil prices rising?" - "hmmmm, what could it be? what could it all mean?????????????????????????????????????????" ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

but you go and take your privately owned tax return and put it down on a new oil fundraiser suv like the rest of the self serving degeneration x who couldn't figure out y for the life of them only to go home and watch a new season of 'lost' and continue to come the beastie boy website, of all places, and voice the 'lack of intelligence' bs you've been fed - and having the choice, would rather believe in any case.

figure out who you are and ch-check out the ring of power thread in earnest.

impeach and indict bush, cheney, rove, rumsfeld, gonzales, rice, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whether they have 2 days or already "out." the amount of overt coverup, admitted lies/ false leadings (powell etc) ... why haven't they been arrested yet? even the mpc (model penal code)/ common law (criminal liability), in no uncertain terms, are extremely clear on what.. a crime is... where the hell has the fbi been??? how it's all being gotten away with shows the obvious and absolute lack of everything/ anything any/ everyone (no matter what your 'profession') else is about. too many positions/ people are criminally incompetent/ have sold out - an effectual front that at the end of each and every day only goes to prolong the corruption and 'confusion' - playing the fence on both sides while the fence makers (rothschilds, rockerfellers, cfr etc) get richer - proving that most are remissive/ and again, have sold out one way or another after the fact. a few subpoenas are served after..... a little too 'close to the white house' and all the (rest of the) top players resign.. thinking to get away with every crime in the book only to retire to their mansions while they still have their hands in all the corruption rewriting shit for the media (rothschilds etc not to mention powell and the fcc)..? this shit's the same if not worse than the "manchurian candidate". and congress, hollywood, you... have done what/ are... doing... what?! the whole state of affairs has been like watching a rigged board game playing out extra slow where people seem to have no idea what's going to or worse, what should happen, nevermind how to stop getting herded and played. let's call it "constitutional ursurpation & dissolution gone wild". kucinich said it well - "repairing the breach" - it was in re to reparations to african americans for slavery - but applies to the whole action-reaction dynamic of it all. the world needs certain reactions/ things to happen in order to really get back/ move on - meaning this administration etc etc needs to be impeached and indicted, the truth of all and sundry out, new orleans and iraq need to be built with the best tech/ grid, and reparations/ appropriations need to be delivered on. polluting/ corrupt industry liquidated and benign energy stocked. you'd think that people would have begun to realize the whole action-reaction dynamic in life by now... congress and the senate are for all intents and purposes detached and fuddle any and every issue. they'll replay 10 year old debates for another 10 years and act like shit's new, not to mention most their "issues" are irrelevant side matters that would be solved if they got to the crux of the problem - and enless counter-balance show... and where are the people? congregating away in some 'fletch' chapel spinoff for the dumbeddown and oblivious, endlessly parsing around the confusion and getting their latest trend from the 'degeneration x' network... not to mention their 'class' from the latest oil fundraiser suv. the house apparently just likes to get paid and hear themselves talk. the obvious plan has been to not plan for anything but to keep the smoke billowing and mirrors shiny while scamming everyone in the meantime with a gridlocked economy - while they sit back and play the game/ wall street. capitalism used to be produce more, earn more, become more economically viable. now it's finnagle the supply, produce less overseas, charge more, throw money on wall street to inflate everything and rack up the debt, with usurius rates of course - all with the new doctrine of you can make a fool out of/ fool all the people 99% of the time (all pipelines lead to rome), and who's to do shit about or for the other 1%? corruption's own - 'balanced' stale mate as they play every angle to keep it that way - bp advertising the promotion of clean energy? get the fuck outta here. "what are the chances of the world changing?" (pov- r. ogust) where was/ is everyone? "conjunction junction..." nobody's really 'there' doing/ helping anything real/ in real time at all! but you got bushco etc etc.. and all guilty by association permeating/ infiltrating everything - robert james woolsey, former director of the cia, is the lead principle in "setamericafree .org" and "pluginamerica.com"??!!! john podesta, former white house chief of staff under bill clinton heads the center for american progress?!!! etc... again, just enough to keep control the "progressive eco-fronts" and keep everything effectively gridlocked. ahhhhhhhh "gotch'all in check". i don't really have time for suckers and biters. but be one of the countless fools that challenges what i am speaking of... errahh "ya just make me strong" - bb...

pelosi, though dangerously delicate looking, frail and 'feeble' for her postition 'right' now.. "how convenient" and seems to only superfically address things in a run of the mill fashion.. made a deal that she wouldn't impeach bush if made speaker of the house??! and reid's a !@! joke. he's got an all too ellusive damper effect about him like he's trying to lull everyone to sleep, like any initiative the democrats have fronted. they've only proven to be obstructions of justice. sell out traitors donning their little grins for the diction handicapped/ challenged like 'good' little natzi's! aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh

the lack of logic, eco or otherwise, and faculty is like a maze of fallacy. the antithesis of life, where no thesis or way out seems to exist. again, it's hard for me to understand how people think to exist in any real terms ever at all. they go about their daily lives without a clue of what it all means or how it applies. as long as they their little creature comforts to keep em 'goin''. "you should sleep late it's just much easier on your constitution." and this regime planned for/ on it. worse, it's too damn obvious. ignoble element - pollution - oil - oiligarchy - petropoliticians - drug trafficing - corrupt auto industry at pace with the wrought course. trash some more electric vehicles? string some more vehicles out on opec for again, the arrogant, intellectually handicapped self serving public.

the state is so secular, degenerated and confounded, inferiority complexes are rampant in the mainstream where people again, actually rely on their pollution made luxary suv to make them feel like anything at all - so bereft of the practical sciences of life. the ecological gap is so wide you could run a train full of reality through it and no one would notice. afghanistan was wrought/ directed into what it was (like exploiting/ watching the world's unfortunate and disenfranchised people on a jenny jones/ jerry springer.. show to the millionth degree) - again, the cia has been wroughting/ subjecting/ creating shitty situations/ circumstances in other countries for a long time to bank off them and for political gain, which has set a trend in all the affairs of this public. not to mention that, with all the bullshit, lies, overt and treasonous misleadings at this point, ahhhh. this war has always been for a lack of intelligence. we're all losing. maybe it would help if you start writing the "jeopardy" answers down and adding them up. though there's many a meathead (but also many really good people with straight up character - though i can only speak of when i was in 10 years ago), the military is arguably the backbone of this country in many ways - there's nothing like it, and i miss entirely too much of the basic routine etc. i'd probably be back in if it wasn't for ... so much bs... then again ... though it's the first thing "instilled" during training, following orders 'virtually' based (to each man his own) on the "moral goodness of the country" no matter what, has become an enormous liability to say the least (though i'm sure the halliburton's are there for your life insurance). our military leaders should not have led the soldiers into this war. they have been completely set up for failure in no uncertain terms. but i don't pity fools either. if you want to get maimed or die refusing to think anything except you're a patriot for enforcing bush's shock doctrine, after so many facts, so you can get a little paycheck to buy a new oil fund raiser - please, go ahead. just like i wouldn't pitty the nazi or the roman army either. however, my sincere prayers do go out to those who are fundamentally good and in certain mos's, who know better - helping rebuild.. medically or otherwise the best they can - it's a hellishly tough rock and a hard place no one would believe. but i'd've been 'awol' long ago. in fact, it's point blank treasonous to be a soldier now. how many times will this shit get replayed until humans figure things out. an earth that can sustain human life doesn't seem to have a chance with each new generation growing up with so much obfuscated, never-ending, confounded, ignoble, static bullshit like most today who allow themselves to be amalgamated into the "artificially induced reality"/ part of the bullshit, when the signs are everywhere. it's a horrible contradiction because the regimen and routine in the military can be astounding. they should reform/ create a new branch/ division for reconstruction and restoration. no doubt a lot more people would sign up!!! how do they think to get away with killing that many civillians and harming the psychs of young disenfranchised men (who see it as the only organization/ way out of the bullshit to have a life, only to jump into the fire now) that get sucked into a military mos by car salesmen when really most traditionally just want/ need to feed their new family and get some college and protect our nation. everything you learn in college is practically contradicted/ compromised by the 'real' world now in any case. 1/3 of the soldiers have purported to have mental disorders there now. at least they're doing mdma research for ptsd - maps. come on people. how long are you going to gather around a burning bush? in all the eons of time... the most pivitol ... you might want to think twice and hone in on your face values. chanoble ... again, etymology of physiognomy... "oh word"

why you gonna let a bunch of trumps rule the world and fuck any good measure up chasing fools gold?!

shit's always too damn close to home.. "eons and eons.... what now?" -311"hey you"

another quarter in the meter... "reposessed my (electric) car.. don't push me cause i'm close to the edge.. tryin' not to lose my head."

i've been through more hell trying to pave way for prerogatives like "you wouldn't believe"/ comprehend in this bullshit place than i care to remember.

"another dimension"

"and you.. you should've known" - ja

"so won't 'cha listen" - bb

[ericg]

In Light of Everything

Preluminary:



Earth's orbit around the sun has sustained life on earth for billions of years. As the sun's energy hits the earth, a dynamic climate is borne. One effect of this dynamic is known as the Greenhouse Effect. The Greenhouse Effect is caused by solar radiation that is absorbed by the earth's geo and aqua-thermal surfaces. This absorbed energy generates surface heat that in turn emits long-wave infrared radiation back into the atmosphere. Greenhouse gases such as water vapor, carbon dioxide, ozone, methane, and nitrous oxide absorb and reflect this radiation thus heating the atmosphere. The concentration of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere determines the temperature on earth. The most prevalent Greenhouse Gas is carbon dioxide (CO2). The nature of the sun, the earth's axis around the sun, the Thermohaline Circulation, volcanic activity, and changes to earth's ecological composition are also determining factors of Climate Change. Paleoclimatic research indicates that abrupt changes to the earth's climate can precipitate in a mere matter of decades, and even seasons. It is a highly variable system.


The micro amount of time it took for humans to "evolve" in all the eons of time alone is dramatic. Even more dramatic is the human population's rate of increase. Around 1800, the human population reached one billion. During this same time period, the Industrial Revolution began. The Industrial Revolution relied heavily upon the use of fossil fuels such as coal, oil, and natural gas. When burned, fossil fuels release CO2 into the atmosphere. Deforestation also began to occur at an unprecedented rate during this time period. Deforestation contributes to an increase of CO2 as foliage captures CO2 and releases oxygen. For more than a thousand years the natural, average concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere was 280 parts per million. Today it is about 360 ppm and is still rising sharply. This is higher than at any time in the past 400,000 years. The earth's average temperature rose about 1 degree Fahrenheit over the 20th century yielding some of the hottest temperatures on record. The rate at which this increase is occurring is utterly catastrophic. Scientists predict devastation like we've never seen this century if our current course does not change. Already, we have witnessed strengthened and more frequent hurricanes, longer droughts, more wildfires, flooding, the spread of diseases, rapidly melting glaciers, a rise in sea level, and the disruption of many ecosystems.


"One of the greatest forces responsible for the planets energy transport is the Thermohaline Circulation (THC), also known as the "great conveyor belt". Driven by temperature and salt concentrations, the Thermohaline Circulation brings warm, fresh water north on the surface while cold, salty water travels below it to the equator. This is caused when the North Atlantic water turns to ice leaving behind its salt content. The remaining water is then more saline and therefore more dense. Since the 1970's, fresh Arctic waters have been spilling into the North Atlantic threatening to shut down the system by blocking this flow. This is due to global warming melting the ice. If the ocean's heat pump stops, it could cause the next ice age." - PBS


In 1997, delegates from over 150 nations proposed to limit Greenhouse Gas emissions at a UN summit in Kyoto, Japan. This is known as the Kyoto treaty." (Almanac) America along side other countries have ignored this proposal. In fact, "America" has wrought and still leads a war directly against the very grounds this treaty is based. If terminal interests continue to underwrite the economy, society, and the planet as a whole, life on earth will not last very long.


"Entropy: A measure of the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is also usually considered to be a measure of the system's disorder, that is a property of the system's state, and that varies directly with any reversible change in heat in the system and inversely with the temperature of the system; broadly : the degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system: The degradation of the matter and energy in the universe to an ultimate state of inert uniformity: A process of degradation or running down or a trend to disorder: Chaos, disorganization, randomness."


In 1776, the United States Declaration of Independence, which was drafted on hemp, was signed and the Revolutionary War with England began in an effort to free the people from religious and economic domination by England. In 1783, a peace treaty with England was signed and thirteen new sovereign states were created, each with it's own monetary system and debt. Hemp was the largest agricultural resource. In fact, "Benjamin Franklin started one of America's first paper mills with cannabis. This allowed America to have a free colonial press." In 1790, the United States Constitution (also drafted on hemp paper), an agreement or contract between the sovereign states that made up the United States, was ratified and contains the rules to control the Federal Government. The end of the Civil War provided the "government" capital to invest heavily on industrial applications and construct transcontinental railroads to the West. "Originally established by the Revolution to protect and preserve the lives, property and freedoms of all Americans from repressive government, it was transformed into an agency to protect the economic future of Northern industrialists." (Intro) – "An Open Letter to All Americans"


Hearst, a timber tycoon who started the Spanish-American War over his own greedy interests with propoganda via his newspaper, also machinated a case against marijuana - a formidable resource to timber as new paper processing technology for hemp had been invented - which wouldv'e near bankrupted his exploits. Due to his and other's (Gulf Oil) finnaglery (sp), in 1937 hemp was made illegal (hemp: virtually no 'thc' - like making a poppy bagel illegal).. undermining centuries of extremely resourceful uses. The DEA was created by and for the same people who had hemp banned. Since, wars have and continue to be wrought by the CIA who have profitted from the mismanaged drug trade, while many get locked up for using them (for all the gridlocked bullshit). Control of the American people in life with fear by manipulating/ exploiting religion, resources, taxes etc...

"Money merchants and private interests (oil, timber etc... still the most corrupt and polluting industries today..) had decided they wanted 'profits and control' of the banking and commerce in the US but did not want the responsibility for the collection of taxes. Money merchants backed by private interests (oil etc) had to get the US Congress to amend the US Constitution to give Congress the power to "tax the people," rather than to tax commerce (these same private interests have been strongly linked to the nazi's during ww2 for their means to their.. the end). This was done in direct violation of the Constitution as the Constitution states that this power is to be Congress's, not private entities. This was done with the XVI Amendment which wasn't even legally ratified. This secured the wealthiest family's on earth the power to control the world's economics. Money merchants coined the term Federal Reserve System, which is actually private and quite counterfeit all considered, not to mention the ill wrought practices of their usurious member banks who seemed to have started a trend in global "market failure" practices ie the Great Depression. This literally sold our Constitution and America's monetary system to private interests. The US Congress retained the responsibility for the collection of taxes. Federal Reserve member banks loan money on paper to the public at rates between 5% to 26%. The United States Government does not receive any interest payment from the funds it has on deposit in the Federal Reserve banks. The US Treasury (citizen's) pay all the expense, and the money merchants take all the profit. If Congress fails to collect enough taxes, the United States Treasury has to borrow the deficit from the twelve privately owned Federal Reserve banks. The Federal Reserve Board of Governors determines the amount of money the United States needs. This need is based on their opinion and nothing more (not to mention the global warming report the World Bank commissioned while all its interest is in polluting industry, war, etc… as well as the CIA report on future socio-economic and ecological devastation like we've never seen… gridlocked mockups.) Abraham Lincoln saved the United States billions of dollars in interest during the civil War because he did not borrow money to fight the war and, therefore, did not issue money against debt. Lincoln did not borrow money from the money merchants, he just printed money and issued money directly to the public. He was assassinated. Kennedy also suffered the same fate for much the same reasons. The 1929 bank and stock market failure was caused by Federal Reserve banks. Too much ill-wrought change to our banking, commerce, and tax laws in too short of a period of time. Hell, we were knocked unconscious and the country was hijacked in the night, or broad daylight, as it were.. The Federal Reserve banks had control over all of the United States economy and were incapable of determining what would be built, who would build it, who would get it, and who would pay the tax on what was built. The money merchants who own these unholy and unethical banks control the US economy, most multinational corporations, and the three branches of the US Government. Money merchants take their profits from this "Sweetheart Deal" and buy stocks and bonds. One percent of the population owns 50% of the US stock market, and four percent of the population owns 35% of the US stock market. In other words, 5% of the population own 85% of the US stock market. Fifty five percent of the population own 15% of the US stock market. That leaves 40% of the population without any interest in the US stock market. Henry Ford, Sr. said, concerning the FRS, "It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system for, if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." In January of 1999, the Federal Reserve banks were authorized to print an additional $50 billion worth of Federal Reserve notes. The reason given was to have additional cash on hand to prevent a run on the banks if a Year 2000 crisis occurs. The real reason was to keep the president in office and to create money to implement a new plan. Congress was considering placing the administration of the security industry and the insurance industry under the administration of the FR Board of Governors. And then Iraq and Katrina happened to occur. This means that seven men control the banking, commerce, insurance, and the securities industries in the United States… Just as Jesus ran the money changers out of the temple, money merchants must be controlled by legislative action. It is interesting to note that 95% of the population works for either a privately owned company or a corporation, compared to 5% in 1900. The world has become economic slaves. The United States Congress should pass a Nationalization Bank Act and nationalize the twelve Federal Reserve banks' stock and their member banks' stock. The money merchants who created the twelve Federal Reserve banks did not give monetary consideration for the United States Government banking rights, except in the form of bribes. They should have no future rights or membership in the Federal Reserve System. The only change to the Federal Reserve banks should be Federal Government ownership, and the only changes to the member banks should be a national usury law enacted by Congress and the return of capital for the stock they own In the Federal Reserve banks. This would free the United States Government and people from the unethical and unholy debt-generating system that the money merchants have place on this nation. The profits from the Federal Reserve banks would to to the United States Treasury. The United States would still be responsible for all prior debt, and the US Treasury could issue money into the member banks to cover any future deficit spending. If the Federal Reserve Board of Governors can allow the present privately owned federal Reserve banks to release generated money into the Federal Reserve System, then they can allow the US Treasury to release generated money into the Federal Reserve System. Any Federal Reserve System officer or employee suspected of sabotage would be charged with treason. An attack upon the nation's money supply is an attack on the nation. Macro to micro, micro to macro, we've never been at a more pivotal time right now...


Today there is currently more than six billion people in the world. At this rate, the world estimates a billion people every ten years and this gap is closing fast. "Currently the world uses 14.4 trillion watts. This is expected to double in the years ahead at a minimum. We need to account for 10 terawatts right now." (Nobelity) There is plenty of space and technology. However, without a government mandate, citizens of wherewithal must stock benign energy thereby collapsing this unholy empire and reconstitute America's values and agenda. In other words, this economic mandate via Constitutional legalese would, in effect, liquidate polluting industries by creating a platform for benign interests in the stock of… perhaps with a mutual fund for all in affinity (Federal Tax Reform). A myriad of applications exist regarding benign energy that should be constructed into formal grids in every city now. Just some of these include oceanic/ water energy, wind farms/ magnetic energy, bio-fuel, fuel cells, solar energy etc… there's production value for America. '"Farming only six percent of continental US acreage with hemp could end America's dependence on fossil fuels. This could return billions of dollars worth of natural resource potential back to farmers and bring millions of jobs back to America's heartland. The production of paper and other hemp products would dramatically decrease deforestation."' (Hempfarm.org) The solutions are very simple once people get in gear. Conversion and production of benign vehicles must be mandated now as they account for much of the CO2 in the atmosphere. Polluting industry has stolen our world and turned it into a third world war zone.


The truth is still contrasted by the plain, wrought devastation occurring the world over and the causes have been descried. We the people need to adopt the appropriate measures in order to gain the leverage necessary to liberate the economy and replenish our laws surrounding natural resources. The technology is here. We need just manufacture and implement it in a timely and reformational (sp) way due. The scale at which this needs to be implemented requires macro orientation and attention to micro detail… This would provide employment and restoration to cultures through trade and integral relationships. Organized revitalization of resources by those of wherewithal along with international corroboration would yield life: measured in benign energy. Feats of our generation include space exploration and immortality, though we'll never get there if we're not here. I gotta throw in creating another branch of the military dedicated to reconstruction and restoration of this mandate ie energy grids. Starting in New Orleans and Iraq following impeachment/ indictments... The agenda starts at home. What's in yer wallet. What interests the rich?



just about every part of reality has been overtly obfuscated and askewed to the point of unrecognition. for all intents and purposes, it's been confounded. i've never seen so much impotence in journalism in all my life. i can't believe the size of the fault lines they run on then actually bethink they can actually get away with it. everything's been made devastatingly subjective.

I hope you are able to perceive a gestalt view of this.



Economic slaves (Build it….)


What does it all rely upon?

Are our resources measuring up to global standards?

What are our resources?

What Does it All rely upon?

Anyway, this just goes to show the correlation between ecology and socio-economy. Like a tuning fork grounding the tonic of life's biorhythm to show what the truth relies upon...

Brass Tax

A mutual fund in benign energy could catalyze world interest and lead to reformed taxation of commerce again, not people.

Peace

I could've just said public goods and market failure... right?

.. and on...



There are several organizations

dedicated to the truth and support of these matters, but have so far only been able to remain large in the margins.

If social, political, and economic institutions are built around the degradation and degeneration of ecology then… life as a whole won't appreciate. Who knew?


This is rough and really only the tip... i wrote it more than a year ago.

It is easily verifiable with minimal effort, not to mention common sense.

PS. All of this was done before "An Inconvenient Truth" came out!!!

Computer Guy says, "You're welcome!"

[ericg]

GMA;1527184']What mean, nasty, terrible people they are.

None of that is funny, it's merely a vicious attack on Maher's character.

If you had any human decency you'd be ashamed of propagating that tripe.

yeah, enigma lost in.., you're one to figure it, right?

[Bob]

The Green Festivals are festivals that happen annually in four cities to promote environmentally friendly ideas and products. There are featured speakers as well. Past speakers include: Medea Benjamin, Alice Walker, Amy Goodman, and Bill McKibben. The four cities the Festival will be happening in this season are Washington, D.C., Seattle, Washington, San Francisco, California, and Chicago, Illinois.Oakfield is a village in Isle of Wight, England.The Stonewall Jackson's Headquarters Museum was an antebellum home owned by Lt. Col. Lewis Tilghman Moore, commander of the 31st Virginia Militia. Later, while commanding the 4th Virginia Infantry, Colonel Moore offered his home at 415 North Braddock Street, Winchester, Virginia, USA, to serve as the headquarters for Confederate Maj. Gen. Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson.[1] Jackson lived in the home from November 1861 to March 1862, and was joined by his wife, Mary Anna, in December 1861.[2] Jackson arrived shortly after taking command of the new Valley District of the Department of Northern Virginia.[3] From this location, Jackson planned his Shenandoah Valley defenses and campaigns, starting with the Romney Expedition.

The home is a gothic revival style cottage built in 1854 for William Fuller, was named "Alta Vista", and had a beautiful view over open hillsides facing east across Winchester. While living here, the Jacksons became very fond of the people and culture of Winchester, and referred to it as their "winter home", hoping to settle here after the American Civil War. In the 1960s the home was purchased and converted into a museum, and includes many possessions and artifacts belonging to Stonewall Jackson. In a letter to Mary, Stonewall Jackson commented:Ghanche District is the easternmost district of the Northern Areas, Pakistan. To its northeast is Aksai Chin (China), to the north and northwest is Skardu District, to its west is Astore District and to its south is the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir. The line of control along the eastern most region of Ghanche District cuts through the Siachen Glacier and is not permanent because of the conflict (It has been proposed by moderates in Pakistan and India to make the Siachen Glacier region a Peace Park).

The capital of Ghanche District is Khaplu. This is the coldest place within Pakistan also called the "Third Pole" with temperatures reaching below -20°C in the winter. Khaplu and Hushe valleys form the gateway for the great Baltoro Muztagh, the subrange of Karakoram that includes the mighty peaks of K2 (8,611 m), Broad Peak (8,047 m), Gasherbrums (8,000+ m) and Masherbrum (7,821 m) (all of which are included in the Skardu District).

[edit] Religion

History of Islam in Baltistan starts with arrival of Ameer Kabeer Syed Ali Hamadani (A legendary Sufi Saint of the Muslim History) from Iran during 15th Century A.D. He was followed by other Sufi legends afterwards, such as Shah Syed Muhammad Noorbaksh. Soon the whole region converted to Noorbakshi order of Islamic Sufism. The core massage of Sufi Noorbakshism are: complete elimination of all evil desires and immoralities of human nature from one’s self; total submission of one’s wills before Allah (by following the Qur'an and Sunnah) and finally love and peace for the whole mankind. During the start of 19th century, however, the predominant population converted to other Islamic schools of thought such as Shias and Sunnis. Today, the Baltis are; Shia' denomination (13%), Sufi Noorbakshi (80%), and Sunni-Ahlehadith sect (7%). Shias and Noorbakshis share many beliefs. Today, Noorbakshis are found in Baltistan and Ladakh regions of J&K, as well as a large number of Noorbakshis are native to Iran, Kurdistan and Central Asia.

Reverence to Ali and 12 Imams is central to the Noorbakshi belief. For Noorbakshis, Ali is the first Imam and supreme Wali of God. It is obligatory for a Noorbakshi to recite twice the following phrases in the prayer call (Adhan): "I witness that Ali (AS) is the Wali of Allah SWT; I witness that Ali (AS) is the Wali of Allah SWT". Also obligatory is reciting twice the following phrase in the Adhan: "Muhammad and Ali are the best of humans; Muhammad and Ali are the best of humans". The Kalima of Noorbakshis is very detailed and consist of witnessing the belief upon Allah, Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain, thus making it different from Shia Kalima. Also, Noorbakshis believe that 12th Imam Mehdi is in Occultation and will appear along with Issa before Qiyamat to eliminate injustice and bring the world back to the path of God. For Noorbakshis, sufism is acquiring ma'arfa of God. Noorbakshis convene in Khankas and perform their religious rituals based on the practices of Ali, who was the Leader of the most pious of all Arifeen. Noorbakshis perform Chilla and sit in Aitakaf for ZIKR. Name of Allah is recited repeatedly in the manner Muhammad and the 12 Imams did. A 40-day Aitakaf is very common among pious Noorbakshis and children also join the rituals. However, the Noorbakshis believe that without expressing absolute love and Ishq for the family of Muhammad who are called Chaharda Masoomeen, God will not accept the prayers of Muslims. Ma'arafat of the 14 Infallibles is pivotal to the Noorbakshis, so that the Allah is to accept prayers. The name of the 14 Infallibles are:

* Muhammad ibn Abdullah
* Fatima bint Muhammad ibn Abdullah
* Ali ibn Abu Talib
* Imam Hassan al Mujtaba
* Imam Hussain al Shaheed
* Imam Ali ibn Hussain al Sajjad al Zainul Abidin
* Imam Muhammad ibn Ali al Baqiral Uloom
* Imam Jafar ibn Muhammad al Sadiq
* Imam Musa ibn Jafar al Kazim (Babul Hawayyij)
* Imam Ali ibn Musa al Reza, Shahe Khurasan
* Imam Muhammad ibn Ali al Taqi al Jawwad
* Imam Ali ibn Muhammad al Naqi
* Imam Hassan ibn Ali al Askari
* Imam Muhammad ibn Hassan al Mehdi

The 8th Imam Ali al Reza has special significance for the Noorbakshis. The Silsilahe Noorbakshia (lineage) which is part of the Kubrawi Sufism continues from the 8th Imam and comes all the way to Hazrat Noorbaksh of Iran, who later migrated to Kashmir and converted the people of Ladakh and Baltistan. Most teachings of Nurbakshi Silsilah are taken from the prayer rituals and ZIKR of Imam Ali al Reza, however, prayers of Muhammad, Fatima and all 12 Imams is recited by the pious Noorbakshis on daily basis.

During Muharram, Nurbakshis offer condolense to Muhammad by convening for Majalis, weeping on the martyrdom of Imam Hussain and beating their chests. Noha and Marsia are recited and weeping for the Imams and Ahlulbeyt is considered obligatory among Noorbakshis.

Although Noorbakshism is still practiced in Ladakh and Baltistan, however, they have lost connection with their other fellows in Iran, where Noorbakshis are in millions. If Noorbakshis of Baltistan do not establish links with Noorbakshis of Iran, then their religion will face influence from non-Noorbakshi elements.

In Baltistan, Noorbakshism has absorbed rituals and beliefs from other Sufi orders especially Naqshbandi silsilah. Among those Noorbakshis, reverence for the Chaharda Masoomeen (14 Infallibles) is somehow less expressed, when compared to the Noorbakshis of Iran or Ladakh. Today, Noorbakshis are also residing in USA, Europe and Middle East. Dr Javed Noorbaksh resides in London and has followers in thousands. Dr Mehdi Noorbaksh is a well known writer from Iran who lives in USA. Dr Mohsin Noorbaksh is a high level Iranian diplomat.

Local Muslims, who converted from Bon-po and Tibetan Buddhism still retain many traits of pre-Islamic Bon and Lamaist rituals, which makes Islam of Baltistan and Ladakh unique from other Muslim societies. Swastika (Yung drung) sign is considered auspicious and is carved on wooden planks that can be seen in historical mosques and Khankas. Showing respect to Lha and Lhu (Bon Gods) is customary during many village rituals.

The Balti, who converted to Islam from Tibetan Buddhism in the 16th century, regard congregation in the Mosques and Khankah as an important religious ritual. The Khankahs are a kind of typical training school of Noorbakshi Sufis which was introduced by the early Sufi saints arrived in the region. The Sufi students gain spiritual purity (tazkiah) through these trainings (meditations and contemplations) under well-practiced spiritual guides, who have already attained certain degree of spirituality. Mosques in Baltistan are mainly built in the Tibetan style, though several mosques constructed have wood-finish and decorations of Iranian origin which can also be seen in Ladakh and Kargil. On every Friday, the men folk would generally attend the prayers sometime a little after noon. All Muslims will fast in the day during the month of the Ramadan, and a celebration will be held at the end of the celebration.

Small pockets of Bön and Tibetan Buddhist believers that amount up to 3,00 are found in Kharmang valley of Baltistan[1] and in West Kargil. East Ladakh (Leh district and Zanskar) are predominantly Buddhist.

The highest peak in Ghanche District is Saltoro Kangri (7,742 m) which is the thirteenth highest peak in Pakistan and the 31st highest peak in the world.

Some of the town in the district are Dubla Khan, Doghani and Lunkha.

Some rivers in the district are shyok River, Hushe River and Thalle River.Third Officer is a lesser used civil aviation rank. It was primarily used by Pan American World Airways, particularly on its Clipper Ships during the infancy of extended range airline routes. The Third Officer served as a relief pilot and could move between pilot, copilot, radio officer, and flight engineer positions to provide a rest period for the primary crews (Flying The World In Clipper Ships). Third Officers in modern civil aviation are often not formally titled as such. Rather, these relief pilots take on a junior First Officer rank or in some cases a Second Officer rank.Paula Wynne Stephens Lambert (born July 5, 1943 in Santa Maria, California) is an American cheesemaker, cookbook author and entrepreneur. In 1982, she founded the Mozzarella Company in Dallas, Texas. She was listed in Who's Who in Food and Wine in Texas in 1988 and received the Roundtable for Women in Foodservice's Pacesetter Award in 1992. In 1998, she was listed in the James Beard Foundation's Who's Who in Food and Beverage in America.

In 2005, she received the Career Achievement Award from Mary Baldwin College in Staunton, Virginia. She has published two cookbooks and teaches cooking classes.Founded in 1971 - with the purpose of supplying the Brazilian refrigeration industry which, up until then, relied entirely on imported compressors - EMBRACO began production in 1974. It was in this same decade when it began to export to markets in Latin America, the USA and Canada.

In the 1980s the sales and distribution structure reaches over 80 countries. Anticipating a globalized economy, the company decided to set up productive bases overseas and soon became world leader; today it holds a 25% market share.

EMBRACO employs around 10,000 people worldwide and focuses on both the talent of its employees, as well as a permanent investment in technology, thus gaining recognition as a supplier of excellence. The reliability and efficiency of its products make EMBRACO the preferred brand for large international household refrigeration OEMs as well as the biggest manufacturers of commercial refrigeration equipment.

EMBRACO has plants in Brazil, Italy, China e Slovakia. It also has a business unit in the USA, in addition to a number of strategically located distribution centers.

Its headquarters and main factory is in Joinville, Santa Catarina, in the southern region of Brazil. EMBRACO also has factories in Italy, Slovakia and China, as well as a business office in the United States. EMBRACO produces hermetic compressors, condensing units and sealed units, for domestic and commercial use.King Country Radio was a radio station in Taumarunui broadcasting on 1512AM. In 1996 King Country Radio became part of the Community Radio Network with all programming outside of the breakfast show being fed from a central studio originally based in Taupo. In 2001 all Community Radio Network stations became part of the Classic Hits FM network with programming outside of the breakfast show based from Auckland. At this point the station became known as Classic Hits King Country Radio.

[yeahwho]

eric,

Your ridiculous posts here are the reason much of what you bitch about continue. You have now pretty much convinced me your a raving loon.

Your trying to convince me through idiotic prose that some sort of tricky bullshit is going on and I should be aware of it.

Have some restraint and quit fueling your enemies. I am probably the most ardent Impeach Bush person (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=77220&highlight=impeach+bush)on this sight. I also am the extremely factual about why. Your in fantasyland when you try to change the world through complete unsubstantiated facts.

Many disagree with you not because your completely wrong, because your presentation is all over the map.

Focus and narrow your scope, try and be civil. I think your heart is in the right place, let your mind follow.

[ericg]

Your ridiculous posts and lack of reason is why the world's still on a bullshit course - at more cost than you know or could apparently appreciate - and why I've responded the way I have. I can't be responsible for you. You have to figure yourself and it all out.

My posts and responses are for general sake. You represent the confounded and tragically stupid american statistic, and I represent your demise or your salvation.

I've repeatedly given substantial facts. Fools disagree and endlessly parse because they handle the facts.. and don't know when to give it up to get it. I've repeatedly given you detailed maps. It is you who have not shown the capacity or wish to follow or figure it all out. It's not that I think you don't know the truth, as any fool could descry.., it's that you're just scared of the tremendous weight of it all with your historical lack of acknowledging 'gravity'.

You're heart hasn't been in the right place, because your head's a clotted, cluster fuck. I don't want this to further go to your head, but take your boozed reckoning, half baked, patronizing bs and put it back up your (**!

No more time for you. You're going to have to derive the point and bring yourself up to speed.

And Bob, good example of entropy. If you're too weak and confounded to get it, at last resort, throw some real confounded incoherance in blind defense of your handicapped comprehension and immaturity and hope like hell the plaster holds.
You keep bobbin' in the deep blue sea. Don't be surprised when the catch is bigger than what you bargained for.

[yeahwho]

No more time for you. Bring yourself up to speed.


Here are some good starting points (http://bipolar.about.com/cs/sfx/l/bl_side_index.htm) for you ericg

[ericg]

what the hell.. in kind... one more time: pbskids.org/readingrainbow/

"wants to waste my time and that's no delusion"

i'm willing to concede that you still have an ounce of dignity and hope about you if you're willing to concede that you've never thoroughly checked the facts.

[Knuckles]

I almost feel bad for teasing you eric.

You really need to seek some professional help.

[NoFenders]

^ Agreed


:cool:

[ericg]

i almost feel bad for being turned on by it.
but flattering yourself so much is a turnoff.
you don't know what professional help is fool.
just know when the 'record tracts'.. you were the mindless front that couldn't get up to speed enough to handle it...
clock's tickin'.. no more parasites!

[Waus]

Oh wow. ericg must be an alias or something. No way does anybody think that pasting a huge block of text constitute an argument - even fucktopgirl takes the time to actually construct her arguments.

[ericg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNsSn6D3CP4

[Schmeltz]

^^ Yeah, I'm 90% convinced it's all a put-up job, just some nutter trying to yank chains. The internet's pretty consistent with that sort of thing.

I'm also 100% convinced it doesn't matter, since it's easier to just ignore the whole thing!

[ericg]

ya must be takin' three the hard way then.
why stay shackled to a fault line?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2007/051107_inside_job.htm

[Carlos]

lol....

another classic thread - however if Eric is not worth interacting, why you have the desire to reply with such vigor to his posts.. whilst ignoring most of mine recently (yeahwho??) which have been structured with a clear argument and evidence to investigate.

Probably because of the same reason why eric is getting so irate. That no one is prepared to actually do proper reserach themselves.. and no, going to 911myths or reading popular mechanics does not count!!

Take that last link eric put up - it shows that it is not just crack pots who think it was an inside job, but an ex 20 yr CIA vet does - I'm sure 95% of those criticising the truth movement are ignorant of this.
This along with experienced architects - a video of Richard Gage (http://blip.tv/file/306082/) I have now posted a few times - no one has again had the decency to critique. It looks like pure laziness, to be so focefully critical of something, and yet you won't even view the best/most convincing evidence for it!!?? :confused:
As well as family members and first responders who are also leaders of the truth movement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rukxI_GLc3w

are all the adult, professionals, accademics, and essentially masters in their field all so wacko, or off-the-mark. Well maybe, but it cannot be written off without real investigation of your own, surely?

Please, please, please, expose yourself to the latest information, make your own judgements. At least as a start watch the last link, of the family members, and first responders. As the heart of the 911 truth movement actually are those who were affected most!!!


P.S jst to get bac to the Bill Maher incident, the guy was forcibly removed then physically assaulted - which Bill was calling for - and told he was gonna be butt fucked by a black guy in prison... i'm sure he deserved that for shouting out on a tV show.
If Bill really wants to make a show of power and bravery he'd hold a live debate with the leading academics of the truth movement, and anyone from NIST and popular mechanics. But seeing as both popular mechanics and NIST have refused to publically debate(in other words defend their position) such people, and the fact that Bill has quite clearly made up hi mind... i doubt it (!)

[yeahwho]

lol....

another classic thread - however if Eric is not worth interacting, why you have the desire to reply with such vigor to his posts.. whilst ignoring most of mine recently (yeahwho??) which have been structured with a clear argument and evidence to investigate.

Probably because of the same reason why eric is getting so irate. That no one is prepared to actually do proper reserach themselves.. and no, going to 911myths or reading popular mechanics does not count!!

Take that last link eric put up - it shows that it is not just crack pots who think it was an inside job, but an ex 20 yr CIA vet does - I'm sure 95% of those criticising the truth movement are ignorant of this.
This along with experienced architects - a video of Richard Gage (http://blip.tv/file/306082/) I have now posted a few times - no one has again had the decency to critique. It looks like pure laziness, to be so focefully critical of something, and yet you won't even view the best/most convincing evidence for it!!?? :confused:
As well as family members and first responders who are also leaders of the truth movement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rukxI_GLc3w

are all the adult, professionals, accademics, and essentially masters in their field all so wacko, or off-the-mark. Well maybe, but it cannot be written off without real investigation of your own, surely?

Please, please, please, expose yourself to the latest information, make your own judgements. At least as a start watch the last link, of the family members, and first responders. As the heart of the 911 truth movement actually are those who were affected most!!!

I have never felt compelled to use the ignore function on this sight before. Today I'm using it. We've had rightwing nutjobs, regular republicans, bible thumpers and trolls of all sizes and shapes on this board which never once made me even think I should use the ignore function. I could tolerate even the most rudimentary dribble if a poster has a belief system to back it up, ericg has a "disbelief system" in place. The motherfucker is whacked.

So yeah don't expect much in the way of response from me over insane bullshit. That is my "au contraire".

[Carlos]

:D lol.. fair play yeahwho..

but surely you wouldn't want to ignore these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rukxI_GLc3w) ..people (http://blip.tv/file/306082/)?

[YoungRemy]

here we go again!

hey guys, I found some blog posts for you to to read! why dont you take time out of your day to look at all this hard research i did, I am educated on this matter, my signature proves it!

alex jones and some guy in winnipeg are my proof!!

[yeahwho]

:D lol.. fair play yeahwho..

but surely you wouldn't want to ignore these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rukxI_GLc3w) ..people (http://blip.tv/file/306082/)?

LOL is right, fairplay and insanity are two different things altogether. Richard Gage cannot even begin to be more moronic than this thought provoking statement,

"No building that has the aspects of controlled demolition has ever not been a controlled demolition."

duuuur, let me think now? Buildings have passenger airliners fly into them between their 77th and 85th floors on the average of approximately one time ever in recorded history. WTF is wrong with you?

[Schmeltz]

The difficulty with your perspective, Carlos, is that it essentially rests on two equally fallacious principles: first, that since some people on the internet believe in it, everyone else should too; second, that anyone who claims to have an open mind has to accept your information as equally valid alongside mainstream sources or else stand as a proven hypocrite.

Neither of these are persuasive or coherent arguments for theories involving secretive direct government involvement in the events of September 11th 2001, and their provenance from the dark and typically ignored underbelly of the internet doesn't help. The thing about the internet as an unregulated medium is that while it might provide an avenue for discussion free from outside interference, the upshot is that anyone can put up any crap they like - and simply having it out there, with some guy in a uniform or a lab coat endorsing it as gospel, does not make it worth anybody's time. Shit, it would take like thirty seconds to find some cheap porno vid featuring girls in lab coats or military uniforms. That crap gets posted the same day it's made. Doesn't mean it's worth watching. And just because some nutter like ericg decides to devote his time and resources to perpetuating fringe theory and outright fiction of the type he's been putting up here lately doesn't mean that's worth watching either.

The problems with the American political establishment (and indeed with the misuse that has been made of Western civics in general over the course of modern history) are varied and manifold, and I too agree that the Bush administration's official account of the events of September 11th seems at least somewhat contrived and manipulated. Unlike yourself, however, I and almost everyone else can contextualize these problems and misdirections; I can understand and properly evaluate the mechanisms that are at work behind them. None of them involve ancient bloodlines or Satanic ritual or secret societies or wild-eyed speculation. The situation has nothing to do with patently impossible scenarios of mass manipulation and transcontinental false flag operations, and everything to do with regular everyday run-of-the-mill human incompetence, idealism, fanaticism, and general inability to realistically assess events and their consequences.

As I've said before, you can go on choosing to believe that history and the events that affect us are unknowable and inexplicable, and rest on the shoulders of shadowy figures only vaguely known through fringe theories and subcultural unofficial investigation performed by total amateurs. Or you can choose to believe that it is possible for us to understand events in the context in which they took place, taking into account the fact that humanity operates on a basis of real and determinable fact (even if it sometimes doesn't seem like it). Your call. But you're not going to win anybody over with this garbage.

[Carlos]

LOL is right, fairplay and insanity are two different things altogether :) "fair play" is an expression used in the uk, just means "fair enough"


"No building that has the aspects of controlled demolition has ever not been a controlled demolition."

so your reason to dismiss his expert analysis is not because he is saying something wrong, or factually incorrect, but because he is stating the fucking obvious. Which is exactly the point being made!?: even though WTC7 exhibits all the characteristics of a controlled demolition; it wasn't.... it just wasn't ok! .......although we are given absolutely no reason, or evidence to accept why it wasn't.


duuuur, let me think now? Buildings have passenger airliners fly into them between their 77th and 85th floors on the average of approximately one time ever in recorded history. WTF is wrong with you?

once again you show your ignorance of the subject: NIST have clearly stated that the initial impacts of the planes had no contribution to the collapses - as they would have had no effect on the massive steel beams that made up the core. NIST maintain it was the fire that caused weakening of the floor trusses. Even though their tests on the steel showed no such deformation, even after a 400% time increase, with ideal fire conditions.

Not to mention that the towers were designed to take the impact of mulitple planes with equal potential momentum of the ones that hit them on 911: according to the designers of the towers.


The difficulty with your perspective, Carlos, is that it essentially rests on two equally fallacious principles: first, that since some people on the internet believe in it, everyone else should too; second, that anyone who claims to have an open mind has to accept your information as equally valid alongside mainstream sources or else stand as a proven hypocrite.

er, where did i ever day that you should believe it because it is on the internet? Please no straw man arguments! The point is that you should make up your mind on what is being said. Once again you do not bother to comment on the evidence rater to make a grunt as to your personal opinion - the arrogance is quite astounding.
If you have an open mind, by definition you are willing to watch/investigate something without pre-judging it. Which you clearly are incapable of Smeltz.

[Schmeltz]

Wrong. Open-mindedness does not mean a willingness to watch any and everything that comes your way without exercising your faculties of judgment and reason. Quite to the contrary, that is a direct abdication of the spirit of critical thinking and rational inquiry that is essential to true open-mindedness.

What open-mindedness actually involves is an explicit and objective - ie self-professed and evidentiary - detachment from bias, whether social, or religious, or political. It means a willingness to apply the principles of objective inquiry to any source of data. In other words open-mindedness does not excuse a medium or a source from critical judgment; rather it rests foundationally on a critical perspective with a high standard of acceptance and evaluation.

Your conspiracy theories fail to meet all of these criteria, and this is what I am saying - your entire approach is fundamentally flawed and hence you and ericg are not finding a very willing audience here. Apparently eric is not finding a very willing audience anywhere, hence his frustrated bit of bitching about how he runs into all these ignorant and backwards people e-v-e-r-y d-a-y. Gosh, eric, how odd that everyone you meet seems to feel the same way about your message - could it be the message that's the problem?

To whit, I will indulge you, briefly and without clicking on any of your links: if this guy Richard Gage is actually an accredited and experienced architect, why have his conclusions not appeared in any peer-reviewed publications? Why have they not been seriously assessed by independent researchers? All you can find from this guy online is self-published material, usually on self-published websites with blatantly obvious ideological agendas (unless, of course, you use screw loose change (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/), which I expect you visit regularly in order to keep yourself "well-informed"). Is the entire architectural and engineering establishment of the United States in on the conspiracy to silence dissent? How about all the other professional engineering organizations in the world? Why are they not devoting any resources to either confirming or refuting Richard Gage? Have they just not seen the Google video? Or maybe - just maybe - does the world not actually work that way?

Why does nobody take this stuff seriously, Carlos? Are we all in on it too? Damn, I wish I was. It would be nice to see a paycheque in return for sitting here trying to talk sense into you guys.

[yeahwho]

I'm not a building engineer, I'm not a professional investigator, I'm not even a very good writer, but I am a skeptical bitch and believe me if anybody I truly respected had some say in the WTC towers being a fix, I'd be right there with you posting links. But since not even one link out of the hundreds posted here and the thousands upon thousands out on the internet have convinced me worthy of posting, I'm going to have to say....the WTC controlled explosion theory is bullshit.

Richard Gage does not impress me.

I could argue with you the reasons why but let me sum it up again as i did before.... he is starting from the premise of the WTC being a controlled explosion. Not the fluke of two 767's at 300 MPH carrying 60,000 pounds of jet fuel.

Your statement,

once again you show your ignorance of the subject: NIST have clearly stated that the initial impacts of the planes had no contribution to the collapses - as they would have had no effect on the massive steel beams that made up the core. NIST maintain it was the fire that caused weakening of the floor trusses. Even though their tests on the steel showed no such deformation, even after a 400% time increase, with ideal fire conditions.

starts out silly and gets even sillier, I mean I'm pretty convinced just from a NYC rats POV that is the reason the towers did not collapse when the planes hit them....something must of taken place after the impact. Like a fire. Which is the reasoning behind the collapse, that and 4 inch thick slabs of concrete falling on top of each other.

The steel wasn't deform, it was weakened by the heat. If you've ever spent anytime around steel, heated it up and pounded it with a hammer you'll find that a much better way to bend it that cooling it off with ice.

The mystery is really how you don't even give any credence to the official NIST report and so much to Gage. That is the mystery.

[Bob]

i hate to go back to square one of the conspiracy theory but i'm confused about the basics of this whole controlled demolition thing; why would the conspirators have found it necessary to do that? wouldn't flying two jet planes into one of america's most recognizable buildings have been enough to do...whatever it was they wanted to do?

i mean it's like "oh my god, two planes just hit the world trade center, i just saw that happen, there was a huge fireball and everything, well that was weird! anyway, back to work. wait, what did you say steve? the buildings FELL DOWN? this means war"

even if i were willing to buy that the planes thing was a big conspiracy, why would they see the need to further complicate the conspiracy and risk getting caught by one of the thousands of people who work in the building by rigging the world trade center with explosives, too?

[Carlos]

What open-mindedness actually involves is an explicit and objective - ie self-professed and evidentiary - detachment from bias, whether social, or religious, or political. It means a willingness to apply the principles of objective inquiry to any source of data. In other words open-mindedness does not excuse a medium or a source from critical judgment; rather it rests foundationally on a critical perspective with a high standard of acceptance and evaluation.

Smeltz, that is an extremely elequent way of putting it, however by your own dfinition you are blatently NOT open minded in any way whatsoever!!

"detachment from bias, whether social, or religious, or political. It means a willingness to apply the principles of objective inquiry to any source of data" you have shown no detachment from bias, and no willngness to apply the principles of objectivity. If you did, you would watc the vdeo in full, and comment on the details. That is if you want to argue you point.. otherwise you implicitly admit that you are ignorant of the subject, because you have written off anyone that criticises the official (totally irrational, and unsubstantiated) conspiracy theory!? Even though former CIA, military, engineers, architects, family members of victims, first reponders, and normal well educated people make up this movement?

To whit, I will indulge you, briefly and without clicking on any of your links scuse me while i go be sick... really being this smug is not good.. and has very little to do with informed debate.

The reason that Mr Gage has not been peer reviewed in the mainstream estblishment, is the establishment will not deal with the evidence, and arguments due to the hypothesis, and being associated with 'crazy conspiracies'. In other words exactly what you are doing. Refusing to look at the data, because of an irrational a priori assumption.
Circular debate, goes nowhere. This is all waffle, all that matters is debating the data, and their implications.

I'm not a building engineer, I'm not a professional investigator, I'm not even a very good writer, but I am a skeptical bitch and believe me if anybody I truly respected had some say in the WTC towers being a fix, I'd be right there with you posting links

a truly revealing sentance... you are admitting that you too are only willing to take seriously someone you have vetted beforehand and again not on what someone says or does!

As for why I trust what Richard Gage has to say rather than NIST, or populear mechanics.
Richard Gage has had a long successful comercial career designing large steel framed buildings. This means a couple of things;
i) he is an expert on steel framed engineering, and the physics involved in construction of massive structures.
ii) he is putting that successful career on the line going public with his very real concerns, and so cannot be seen for personal gain motive - quite the opposite.
NIST on the convex is a government sponsored body - in other words they get paid by Bush and Cheney, and so could well be seen to be comprimised. This however does not mean we should write them off without proper analysis of their findings (the irony)... However on doing so we find holes in their analysis at best, and at worst fixing of the data.
A smal example of their rigorous scientific investigation - to find out the force the planes would have on the supporting beams, they fire shotguns at bits of wood???!! go figure.
Then we have the complete stonewall of debate/analyis of their findng in public. They have refused to debate Richard Gage, and Steven Jones in public (as has pop mechanics).
We also have complete incompetance or lies when they have been questioned in public: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJ_1-qMujE) ...even the president of Control Demolition Inc. Mark Loizeaux is on record as saying "hot spots of molten steel... at the bottoms of the elevator shafts, down seven (basement) levels."

However NIST have confused the subject even more: by putting out a couple different statements..

To para phrase - "the condition of the steel (whether molten or not) is irrelevant to the collapses"
A monumental statement - so something that should in no way whatsoever be present is, but is not evaluated in the whole. Purely cos it does not fit with a pre-decided hypothesis.
Remember there is no mechanism or this molten steel to be present.. so surely it would be a of great significance!!!!!??????

However they then go on to state: (again i prarphrase)

"Under certain circumstances it is possible for the wreckage to have melted after the collapse, due to a fire in the wreckage...."

LOL as if they couldn't top the last statement for bad science - what they are trying to asert (?!) is that an uncontrolled fire can melt steel.. even though a raging forest fire which can for breif periods reach the maximum temp of a hydrocarbon fire, it would not be hot enough to melt steel!!! Let alone a smldering pile of concreted powder, and steel - in other words fuk all highly combustable material.

this is why I would rather trust an independent expert, not gaining anything, other than risking a career. Over a body that shows no real scientific enquiry, or reasoning. And clearly is disingenious at best, ad severely compirimised at worst.

[Knuckles]

Carlos, you need to ask yourself why the vast majority of experts don't believe this bullshit theory. "Because they don't want to be seen as a wacko" doesn't cut it.

[yeahwho]

Maybe this Richard Gage fellow is into 'Feng Shui Architecture'. He is full of himself and really not getting any other AIA (http://www.aia.org/) members to jump on his bandwagon. Which BTW, a search on the AIA page cannot find his name, nor does this genius even have a wiki. You've got to ask yourself a few questions about the difference between reliable and fringe. Richard Gage is nobody.

Nobody in the NIST or general conversation ever mentions molten steel, bowing steel due to molecular weakening with heat is observed after a period of time, when the structure gave out it collapsed like dominoes. Not really all that unusual, very logical if your using your brain and examining the structure.

Furthermore why is it the Brothers and Sisters who sacrificed everything that day haven't joined your CT party? The FDNY (http://nyfd.com/9_11_wtc.html) knows a thing or two about fire science and structural fires, they would of been calling this govt. out on the carpet years ago if anything was semi-intelligent from the truther's, as is I 'spose they would probably like to have a go with guys like you when you come to tell them your theory at the firehouse.

[Carlos]

yeahwho... you are obviously far too igorant on this subect to argue with the conviction you do. The major probem is, tht you are compltetly unwilling to do the research.. but still have the arrogance to to assume you do know it all.

NIST in their Frequently asked questions paper o indeed assert that the molten steel that is completely undeniable, and documented. Is a) not present, and even if it was is unimportant??!!!, and then b) put forth the literally insane proposition that steel could be melted by a smuldering pile of concrete and steel.. fucking cloud cookoo land.

NIST: (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm) "NIST investigators and experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY)—who inspected the WTC steel at the WTC site and the salvage yards—found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse. The condition of the steel in the wreckage of the WTC towers (i.e., whether it was in a molten state or not) was irrelevant to the investigation of the collapse since it does not provide any conclusive information on the condition of the steel when the WTC towers were standing.

Under certain circumstances it is conceivable for some of the steel in the wreckage to have melted after the buildings collapsed. Any molten steel in the wreckage was more likely due to the high temperature resulting from long exposure to combustion within the pile than to short exposure to fires or explosions while the buildings were standing."

as I have said before this last (in bold) paragraph reveals the exgtent to which NIST are prepared to bend all known physics. This is not science, it is myth, and fairy tales. A hydrocarbon fire, in an uncontrolled burn never, ever, ever, ever, could in any convievable way melt steel. FACT.

Do some research into the NIST team. The guys heading it, have close ties with the Bush administration. They are as far from an independant scientific body as you can get. We all know how the pharmecutical companies can fix the science, and 'buy' the right results... well the Bush administration are masters of this.

Knuckles, please find me some independent experts willing to support, in public debate, the NIST findings, and conclusions of the 911 commission. Cos to this date the only scientist who has tried to prove that fire could infact cause what we saw is Bazant. And his paper has been thoroughly debunked, and shown to be incorrect - his starting temps are so way off from reality, and even the NIST models (the vastly over egged computer models).

However we have over hundreds of qualified scientists, architects and engineers, military leaders, secret service vets, 911 comissioners, family members, first responders, workers at the trade centres, scolars, and normal educated and clearly intelligent people all saying that there was clearly much more to that day than we have been told, to the point that it could only have been some sort of inside job, and not purely down to some guys from a cave (http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2006/11/overwhelming-majority-of-credible.html). The extent to which, and the exact people involved is not clear, or something that the truth movement needs to prove. All that is needed, and been proved beyond any doubt once you have all the information, is to show that the official story/myth/conspiracy theory cannot be true, because it breaks all known laws of physcs, and a trillion dollar defence system can be penetrated (4 fucking times).

so what is so crazy for demanding: A NEW, TRULY INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO THE THE EVENTS OF THAT TRAGIC AND WORLD CHANGING DAY.

loose change final is now out - can watch it here if you are in the US: http://www.loosechangethefinalcut.com

It is a completely new film, not a re-make of the 2nd edition... I challenge anyone to watch it, and try debunk it: it is pure information, does ot speculate, or have conjecture like the fisrt 2 did. It purely presents all the information, so that the informed viewer can decide for themselves. It has been thoroughly fact checked, has lots of new footage, and some very revealing interviews. It does not try make your mind up, rather presents the best and most convincing information for your own judgement. For example, they give equal airing to the evidence that it was a boeing that hit the pentagon, as to the lack of evidence that one did.. and leave it open... as there is no clear answer either way. Have the balls to watch it, get informed.. then make up ya own mind. Most importatnly stop trying to defend somethign you are unimformed about. At least if you watch it, you'll be informed.. doesn't mean you have to agree with it.