Here's a little story that must be told.

[acamus]

So I get on the train in Atlanta to go to the airport for my trip to Chicago for the gala event dressed in my best suit and trilby. The doors open at a stop and on walks this big black dude wearing a black football jersey emlazoned across the back with "Grand Master Flash". He walks over and stands next to me talking on his cell. When he gets off, he turns to me and says, "Dude, you're dressin' fly. Are you a musician? Where you goin'?" I told him I was flying to Chicago to see the Beastie Boys and we're supposed to dress to impress. He's like, "Dude, those are my boys." I compliment him on his jersey and tell him I love Grand Master Flash. He extends his hand and says, "Hey, I'm Grand Master Flash." He's this down to earth guy, so we talk for a while. I tell him about the hip hop history class I teach at my high school. He hands me his business card and says, "Dude, I wanna be a part of that." He told me he recently moved to Atlanta from New York and set up a studio here. He starts listing off all the ATLers he's working with. I wish I'd taped this. What a day, I meet Grand Master Flash in the morning, he voluneteers to come talk to my students later this year and I go to a gala event that night. Yup!

[Deep_Sea_Rain]

Ha, nice mang. What an honor to talk with that guy, ya know?

[Pootytang]

Grand Master Flash isn't a big black dude. He is actually quite skinny. I don't mean to shit on your story.

[acamus]

Grand Master Flash isn't a big black dude. He is actually quite skinny. I don't mean to shit on your story.

Now I see why you and Miranamee get along so well. Hey, pooter, I'll send you a pair of his stained drawers. That outta make up for your shitting the shite you shat. Maybe it was Scorpio posing as Flash. (They are very different weight classes.) We'll see.

MySpace.com/furious5

[Pootytang]

What does my comment have to do with miramanee? If you think Miramanee is a male, you truely are a moron.

[acamus]

What does my comment have to do with miramanee? If you think Miramanee is a male, you truely are a moron.

Whoa, cowboy. That "attitude" is exactly what I'm talking about. Chillax, pardner and don't run for public office for god's sake. Do you win friends and influence others with your charm and name calling often?

[Lex Diamonds]

Haha, ignore Pootytang, he's just a chump with poor social skills.

Awesome story, I would love to meet a legend like the Grand Master. He's something of a phenomenon. (y)

[canucklehead200]

So I get on the train in Atlanta to go to the airport for my trip to Chicago for the gala event dressed in my best suit and trilby. The doors open at a stop and on walks this big black dude wearing a black football jersey emlazoned across the back with "Grand Master Flash". He walks over and stands next to me talking on his cell. When he gets off, he turns to me and says, "Dude, you're dressin' fly. Are you a musician? Where you goin'?" I told him I was flying to Chicago to see the Beastie Boys and we're supposed to dress to impress. He's like, "Dude, those are my boys." I compliment him on his jersey and tell him I love Grand Master Flash. He extends his hand and says, "Hey, I'm Grand Master Flash." He's this down to earth guy, so we talk for a while. I tell him about the hip hop history class I teach at my high school. He hands me his business card and says, "Dude, I wanna be a part of that." He told me he recently moved to Atlanta from New York and set up a studio here. He starts listing off all the ATLers he's working with. I wish I'd taped this. What a day, I meet Grand Master Flash in the morning, he voluneteers to come talk to my students later this year and I go to a gala event that night. Yup!

you teach a hip hop history class and you didn't even recognize GRANDMASTER FLASH ARE YO UKIDDING ME?!

[acamus]

you teach a hip hop history class and you didn't even recognize GRANDMASTER FLASH ARE YO UKIDDING ME?!

Yeah, 'cause the way I see it, all black people look the same. I get stupid when flattered. I believe that business cards are empirical evidence of a persons identity. I'm gullible. I thought Flash always wears a fat suit. I'm blind. I've got rapid visual recall disorder (RVRD). I lied. I'm Grandmaster Flash. We were going trough a tunnel. I call it a hip hop class, but it's really about Felix the Cat. I'm a moron or a mormon, I'm not sure. I was huffin' 409. Now that I think about it, it was actually Papa Smurf in black face.

[b-grrrlie]

you teach a hip hop history class and you didn't even recognize GRANDMASTER FLASH ARE YO UKIDDING ME?!

That was my first thought as well...

[Pootytang]

Haha, ignore Pootytang, he's just a chump with poor social skills.

Awesome story, I would love to meet a legend like the Grand Master. He's something of a phenomenon. (y)

Chump? Eat my ass.

Poor social skills? You don't even know me. How in the hell could you ever make such an assumption.

[acamus]

Chump? Eat my ass.

Poor social skills? You don't even know me. How in the hell could you ever make such an assumption.

Breathe. Now count to ten. Breathe. Gosh, I don't know why anyone would say that. You write with such tact and grace. (Psst. You don't have to assume anything when you write the way you do. I can only assume you are how you write.)

[Pootytang]

You guys have to find someone else to tag up on since Miramanee is no longer around. What did I ever do to anyone of you. I guess it makes you feel like a big person to put others down.

I will not let your immature statements bother me.

[facedownfall]

alright fellas lets remember these great lyrics:


If Others Disrespect Me Or Give Me Flack
I'll Stop And Think Before I React
Knowing That They're Going Through Insecure Stages
I'll Take The Opportunity To Exercise Patience
I'll See It As A Chance To Help The Other Person
Nip It In The Bud Before It Can Worsen
A Change For Me To Be Strong And Sure

[acamus]

alright fellas lets remember these great lyrics:


If Others Disrespect Me Or Give Me Flack
I'll Stop And Think Before I React
Knowing That They're Going Through Insecure Stages
I'll Take The Opportunity To Exercise Patience
I'll See It As A Chance To Help The Other Person
Nip It In The Bud Before It Can Worsen
A Change For Me To Be Strong And Sure

You couldn't be more right. Thanks.

[acamus]

Ha, nice mang. What an honor to talk with that guy, ya know?

Thanks, dude. Yeah, whomever it was I talked to was cool and knew his shit. If it turns out it was Scorpio instead, I won't be too disappointed.

[acamus]

Haha, ignore Pootytang, he's just a chump with poor social skills.

Awesome story, I would love to meet a legend like the Grand Master. He's something of a phenomenon. (y)

Thanks, man. I think I'm going to tape this year's guest speakers and post it on YouTube so we can all decide if this was the Grandmaster, one of his henchmen or some schitzo who went out of his way to print up Furious 5 business cards with cell phone numbers and the Furious 5 Myspace address. Maybe this guy scams the girlies and well-dressed teachers all the time.

[canucklehead200]

You couldn't be more right. Thanks.


you're still an idiot for not recognizing him

[acamus]

you're still an idiot for not recognizing him

Ooo, I love when you talk dirty to me. Now spank my booty real good.

[Deep_Sea_Rain]

Definitely keep us posted Ac...let us know if he does indeed get with you.

[acamus]

Definitely keep us posted Ac...let us know if he does indeed get with you.

You got it, DCR. I'm going to meet with all the local ATL Hip Hop folks that guest speak in my class this weekend. Someone among them will know if he's in town/moved here. I'm also giving him a call this afternoon after school to invite him to the huddle. I'll let ya'll know what comes of it. peace.

[AceFace]

OMG! you're just gonna call GMF up and have a convo! that's just unreal to me! boy you def were at the right place at the right time... dressed the right way to impress! how cool!

[Lex Diamonds]

You guys have to find someone else to tag up on since Miramanee is no longer around. What did I ever do to anyone of you. I guess it makes you feel like a big person to put others down.

I will not let your immature statements bother me.
I be catchin' bitches while bitches be catchin' feelings.

[acamus]

News Flash ... Hi ho, I just finished transferring my raw footage to DVD to send off in the morning and decided to add my GFlash story and the latest update. I sliced that peice out and posted it to YouTube. It's better than telling it in typed words which don't really convey as well. Here it is. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OznyCLXtfg

[Lyman Zerga]

guess i need to hear that story again in dolby surround to get it

[acamus]

Well, my raw footage is in the mail and should be there tomorrow around noon. This is my well wish to the package and the hope that it arrives in one peice. Have fun, y'all.

[acamus]

guess i need to hear that story again in dolby surround to get it

If you apply echo and a little wah wah, it all comes clear. It's kinda like one of those red, secret message readers but with sound.

[mathcart]

you teach a hip hop history class and you didn't even recognize GRANDMASTER FLASH ARE YO UKIDDING ME?!

clearly it was Scorpio (not as recognizable). Also I gotta say, I'm not sure its a given I recognize what Flash looks like having not seen very many pictures of him ever, much less ones that weren't 20 (to 30!)years old. Lets back off that nonsense. Also you gotta remember the era were talking bout, There really weren't a lot of video footage of this era in hip-hop (no mtv, bet, not even a lot of videos), and homeboy isn't from NYC so its entirely possible he would of never seen him. I understand the whole hip-hop history teacher complicates this theory a little (sorry dude- I tried to defend ya), but as I said before, you know- the late seventies was THIRTY years ago! (I think I need to go cry about that... ok I'm better.)

A little more info on Scorpio is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_master_flash)

Peace.(y)

[acamus]

Oh, I know it's strange that I ignored all the evidence to the contrary right in front of me. I know what flash looks like. (He does, after all, appear (through footage from "Style Wars") in the "Root Down" video.) But I admit, I was: 1) on a buzz about my trip and the events of the night ahead, 2) I'd already had a bunch of people fawning over my get-up, so drunk on flattery, 3) fooled by the fact that he was wearing a jacket like the members of the Furious 5 often wear, 4) gulible and took his word for it, assuming that Flash must have put on some weight over the years (I didn't see his Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony.), and 5) it was in fact Scorpio and he did hand me a legit Furious 5 business card and passed himself off as Flash. I guess I can now understand why evidence for a court case, especially when it involves eye witness accounts, is often so conflicting; there are lots of reasons why in a particular set of circumstances, our minds can play tricks.

The other thing to say is that, in spite of the fact that I teach a hip hop history class, I'm not the expert on either the personalities, the lyrics nor a number of other topics. I once misidentified the guy in the "Triple Trouble" video standing behind Kanye as 50 Cent.

I started the class because of many discussions I was involved with surrounding race and identity at my school, the fact that as a white Jamaican, I'd had similar experiences in school, and the fact that I didn't see any other classes like this. My overall role is that of a producer who saw a need for such a class at our school and who calls in guest speakers on various aspects to speak and/or demonstrate. My area of expertise, if any, is the issues surrounding race, code-switching and the like that come up in our class through discussions the students start, not me. I'm up front about this with my students and those who are guests, and, despite how loosey-goosey that seems, I get the support and respect of the local hip hop community. I'll get the occasional call from someone from Madclout (local graffiti, etc crew) or the Funk Lordz (local b-boy crew) giving me props for the work I do.

I tell my story and describe my limits on the first day of class (In fact this time, I'll start off with this story including my mistake.) and tell students, as I've learned, that if they're really interested in a topic not to trust me or any teacher, but to research the material for themselves. I don't know how many times over my years as a student, I've found something of a factual nature that a teacher of great regard and credentials was wrong about. One of my teacher-heroes is John Taylor Gatto (a former NYC teacher) who often started off classes by giving false information about events in American history, for example, and then making this same point.

Hope this helps.

[acamus]

What I'm wondering is why Scorpio passed himself off as Flash? Did he do it simply as a shortcut as in, "This dude isn't going to know my monker, I'll just stretch the truth a little and say I'm Flash." Not that I have a problem with that.

[acamus]

Update: He texted me last night, still interested in coming to talk to my class. His salutation was "Scopio/granmasterflash furious5". So does everyone in the group go by the format "[INSERT AKA]/grandmasterflash furious5"? We'll see.

[balohna]

everytime I read this thread title it makes me think of B-Boys Will Be Boys by Black Star.

[acamus]

My strongest association with the line "Here's a little story that must be told." is with "Scratch" since it's used at the beginning. Is it originally from Rakim? It's interesting that our knowledge of the origins of sounds and lines is based on the first copy we encounter. I never heard the original, so it began for me with "Scratch".

[DandyFop]

The one thing I learned from this is that acamus is really hot. The end.

[mathcart]

I tell my story and describe my limits on the first day of class (In fact this time, I'll start off with this story including my mistake.) and tell students, as I've learned, that if they're really interested in a topic not to trust me or any teacher, but to research the material for themselves. I don't know how many times over my years as a student, I've found something of a factual nature that a teacher of great regard and credentials was wrong about. One of my teacher-heroes is John Taylor Gatto (a former NYC teacher) who often started off classes by giving false information about events in American history, for example, and then making this same point.

Hope this helps.

Gatto is also my hero. That made me forgive you, because you must not suck as a person if your all about JTGatto. :)

[acamus]

Gatto is also my hero. That made me forgive you, because you must not suck as a person if your all about JTGatto. :)

Thank you. Yup, I'm all about the JTG. I re-read "Dumbing Us Down" every year before school starts. As far as sucking as a person, I hope not.

[acamus]

The one thing I learned from this is that acamus is really hot. The end.

You made me blush. Thanks.

[blipstutter]

Scorpio wouldn't represent himself as Grandmaster Flash.
The chances of him even wearing a GMF jersey or signing a text that way seem pretty strange since the group was at odds with him until recently but Scorpio does live in Atlanta so who knows.

Check the link, he's the one pictured on the left in the yankees cap.
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=73558237&epmid=3&partner=Google

By the way - I believe Flash is about 5'7 or 5'8 at best, and he's skinny. His face looks about the same as the Wild Style days. He can be pretty shy, and pretty selective about personal appearances when $$$ isn't involved.
This is what Flash looks like today:
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=73558237&epmid=3&partner=Google

My advice is to become a member of the forum at oldschoolhiphop.com and share the story over there. A lot of the originals either post, or lurk on it, as do people who have professional relationships with people like the Furious5. Tell them what you're up to with your class, and see if you don't get a few more old timers offering to come and talk to the class to make up for your own limitations. Many of them never got any fame, and they would love to set the record straight and tell their stories. That'll set you off in a better direction.

Finally - Don't play like you meant to be ignorant on purpose. Educate yourself before you educate others.

[acamus]

Scorpio wouldn't represent himself as Grandmaster Flash.
The chances of him even wearing a GMF jersey or signing a text that way seem pretty strange since the group was at odds with him until recently but Scorpio does live in Atlanta so who knows.

Check the link, he's the one pictured on the left in the yankees cap.
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=73558237&epmid=3&partner=Google

By the way - I believe Flash is about 5'7 or 5'8 at best, and he's skinny. His face looks about the same as the Wild Style days. He can be pretty shy, and pretty selective about personal appearances when $$$ isn't involved.
This is what Flash looks like today:
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=73558237&epmid=3&partner=Google

My advice is to become a member of the forum at oldschoolhiphop.com and share the story over there. A lot of the originals either post, or lurk on it, as do people who have professional relationships with people like the Furious5. Tell them what you're up to with your class, and see if you don't get a few more old timers offering to come and talk to the class to make up for your own limitations. Many of them never got any fame, and they would love to set the record straight and tell their stories. That'll set you off in a better direction.

Finally - Don't play like you meant to be ignorant on purpose. Educate yourself before you educate others.

the dude pictured in the baseball cap was the guy i met on the train. i don't know what to tell you since you know better than i what scorpio would do. are you scorpio? so, either you're saying I'm lying or you have some other theory as to who passes out these business cards. be straight. what are you saying? thanks for the link.

hey, i didn't play ignorant. i am ignorant about a lot of things. what would it even mean to "play like you meant to be ignorant"? re-read what i wrote or posted to YouTube. do you teach? what gives you the position on your high horse? what makes you so invested anyway? are you gmf?

[RobMoney$]

What I'm wondering is why Scorpio passed himself off as Flash? Did he do it simply as a shortcut as in, "This dude isn't going to know my monker, I'll just stretch the truth a little and say I'm Flash." Not that I have a problem with that.


He was making fun of you.



The only purpose this thread has given me is how thankful I am I don't live in the Atlanta area so that my kids won't ever be apart of your class.
From watching your little video, you seem incapable of concetrating long enough to complete a single sentence, let alone follow a dialogue with someone on a train who's telling you they're GMF. You were blinded from the shine on your own suit to pay attention long enough to someone else for two minutes.

Your intentions with this thread, and with your class (and I use the term loosely) both seem self serving. I question whether you're more interested in the names you get to drop than actually knowing the subject, Hip-Hop.

[acamus]

He was making fun of you.

The only purpose this thread has given me is how thankful I am I don't live in the Atlanta area so that my kids won't ever be apart of your class.
From watching your little video, you seem incapable of concetrating long enough to complete a single sentence, let alone follow a dialogue with someone on a train who's telling you they're GMF. You were blinded from the shine on your own suit to pay attention long enough to someone else for two minutes.

Your intentions with this thread, and with your class (and I use the term loosely) both seem self serving. I question whether you're more interested in the names you get to drop than actually knowing the subject, Hip-Hop.

Thank you for your feedback. I love you. I'm giving out $100 bills, do you want one?

[RobMoney$]

This is what Flash looks like today:
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=73558237&epmid=3&partner=Google


Ummm...That's not GMF. Flash is in the background with the Jeff Hat.


This is GMF
http://faculty.washington.edu/qtaylor/images/grandmaster_flash.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioassets/photos/2007/3/13/16896_2.jpg

http://img.stern.de/_content/55/62/556287/flash2_500.jpg

[acamus]

Ummm...That's not GMF. Flash is in the background with the Jeff Hat.


This is GMF
http://faculty.washington.edu/qtaylor/images/grandmaster_flash.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioassets/photos/2007/3/13/16896_2.jpg

http://img.stern.de/_content/55/62/556287/flash2_500.jpg

blipstutter's link didn't link correctly, that's all.

[RobMoney$]

Thank you for your feedback. I love you. I'm giving out $100 bills, do you want one?


You teach a class on hip-hop, and poorly by the sounds of things.

You probably need the money more than I do Cuz.

[acamus]

You teach a class on hip-hop, and poorly by the sounds of things.

You probably need the money more than I do Cuz.

why you got so much hate in your heart, lover? you should see how i teach math. welcome to the new school.

[JohnnyChavello]

He was making fun of you.

I have to agree. Have you ever read anything about the practice of signifyin' (or Signifyin(g))? Might be something you could go over with your class. Anyway, he was responding to your comment that you love Grandmaster Flash (while clearly not recognizing one of the members of the Furious 5) with a little joke at your expense - one that gets even funnier when you failed to call that one out. He knew you wouldn't get it, but that's the whole point.

Anyway, based on everything I've read about it, that's my theory. I wouldn't take it too hard, it isn't really meant to be mean spirited.

[RobMoney$]

why you got so much hate in your heart, lover? you should see how i teach math. welcome to the new school.


I'm Vanilla Ice.
Send me a PM if you want me to speak at your class.
I'll show you my card if you don't believe me. You can tell all your friends you know me if you like.

[RobMoney$]

Seriously, I'm Ol' Dirty Bastard,

Here's my Welfare Card (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002HFU.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg) to prove it.

[beastieboysbaby]

I'm Vanilla Ice.
Send me a PM if you want me to speak at your class.
I'll show you my card if you don't believe me. You can tell all your friends you know me if you like.

oh man. VANILLA ICE. my homieeee

[RobMoney$]

oh man. VANILLA ICE. my homieeee

Ay Yo STOP

Collaborate and listen.

[beastieboysbaby]

ice is back with my brand new invention.

something grabs ahold of me tightly......:eek:

[acamus]

An open letter to all you haters:

Well, I know I shouldn't let this bother me, but I've got an issue thinking if I just explain myself enough or if I just craft my response in the right way, I can get others to undestand me in peace. So I'll give into this issue one last time.

Scorpio texted me this morning saying he'd just returned from London and that's why he hadn't gotten back to me. I texted him back and pointed him to this thread and discussion. I also left him a voicemail with a general run down. I told him I didn't recognize him for who he was and got fooled into thinking he was GMF. He called me back and said. "Look, man. Tell those people to fuck off. I introduce myself as Grandmaster Flash because that was part of our group's name and it's just easier that way. Those people are just envious. Don't let it bother you. I texted you back and called you back because we had a good moment together that day. That's how we all do it because we were a part of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5. Just tell them to go fuck themselves." I told him the theory that he was testing me or poking fun at me. He said, "What? Yeah, like I have the time or care to go around riding trains and quizing people. That's bullshit."

As far as him coming, he said he usually charges $5K for speaking events, but gave me a very generous offer. Unfortunately, I pay for these guest speaker appearances out of my own pocket and can't afford even his low-low, generous offer. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Thanks, Scorpio.

[MIKEtotheD]

That's a pretty awesome story. (y)

[acamus]

That's a pretty awesome story. (y)

Thanks my man.

[JohnnyChavello]

I told him the theory that he was testing me or poking fun at me. He said, "What? Yeah, like I have the time or care to go around riding trains and quizing people. That's bullshit."

I can accept that; as I said, it was a theory. Anyway, I'm not hating, or even sure what there is to be hated on. It wouldn't have been the end of the world in either case, I just thought it might add some insight to the discussion.

I would still recommend getting familiar with the theory of Signifyin(g) as a method of textual analysis regarding African-American music, literature, sociology, etc., however. If you're interested, see Louis Gates, Jr.'s, The Signifying Monkey: A Theory of African-American Literary Criticism.

[RobMoney$]

The thing that offended me about this "story" was that you claim to be teaching a class, obviously an elective class, on the history of hip-hop to kids, yet you seem to have a total lack of knowledge on the subject yourself. I mean day one of your class should begin with Grandmaster Flash and DJ Cool Herc DJing parties in the Bronx.
It shows a lack of respect for hip-hop itself that you wouldn't know arguably the most influential person in the history of the subject.

That and the fact that you jumped down Pooty's throat for no apparent reason. You got awefully defensive as soon as someone politely pointed out a major flaw in your story.

But whatever man, the only thing left to do now is for the mods to delete this crap.

[acamus]

Anyway, I'm not hating, or even sure what there is to be hated on.

I would still recommend getting familiar with the theory of Signifyin(g) as a method of textual analysis regarding African-American music, literature, sociology, etc., however. If you're interested, see Louis Gates, Jr.'s, The Signifying Monkey: A Theory of African-American Literary Criticism.

I wasn't accusing you of hating, that jab was meant especially for other member$. I remember the discussion that Scopio and I having being very sincere and warm, but I figured that my judgement would be questioned after the mistake I made, so I figured I get the scoop straight from the scorp. He said on the phone this moring that he felt the same.

As far as it making a difference, maybe I take this too seriously, but my reputation IS important to me. This is a public forum and I want to be understood for what happened, not through some theory that I know doesn't hold water. (I'm not being snappy. I hope you understand my point. That's why I made the video; email and message postings don't convey the full truth. (i.e., knowhatimsayin'?))

As far as The Signifying Monkey, I've got it and skimmed it, but definately thanks for the heads up. There's something disconcerting about reading about black/carribean rhetorical devices like this. Growing up in a Jamaican (hillbilly-working class-Jamaican) family (having phenotypical white, black and hispanic family members) we spoke in ways that, because I was ostracised in school for it, I went to great pains to wash clean from my speech. Even as I type this, I realize how much I had to learn to speak like the rest of the kids. I had teachers who would publicly and humiliatingly correct grammatical quirks, syllable emphasis, and the like. In fact, I think there was a lot of poor (ill?) communication that happened because of those linguistic and cultural differences.

Beyond rhetoric, I grew up with more of a reliance on intuition rather than a search for hard facts and "the Truth". It seems you read widely, so I'm sure you've encountered this distinction that's often made between European and African/Carribean cultures. I've always resonated with the line "not perfect grammar, always perfect timing." I grew up in a family that mythologized, told tall tales, loosley paraphrased to the point of changing the meaning to reflect/inject emotion, etc. This approach is typically dismissed by the stereotypical European as inferior, but I still say there's a lot to be gained from the more intuitive approach. In this way, I've always felt I understood immediately the kind of discourse (god that word seems cumbersome ... uh ... considering the topic) that happens in Hip Hop. That's not to say that in this context, I stretched the truth in any conscious way. I'll leave it at that. If I need to say more, just let me know. (knowhatimsayin'?)

My mom tells a story (I was five years old or so) where I was playing with another kid in a department store. Appearantly, the little girl's mom overheard my mom speaking, grabbed her kid and told her she couldn't play with me. She and my mom got into a agument where this lady told my mom to go back to where she'd come from and that her child wasn't going to play with n!@@ers. I could recount tons of stories like that, that made me learn to mimic the speech patterns of the social group I would find myself in to "match my skin color."

I was lucky enough to attend FAMU (an historically black college) for four years where I often felt more at home than FSU from where I graduated. It was here where I learned a lot about the linguistic differences that I'd grown up with and was shuned for as a kid. (Not that being phenotypically white at a HBC didn't present it's own set of problems.) My point is that even where I don't know the linguistic terms for the differences in communication, I have an intuitive sense of it because that's how I speak when I phone my mom and dad. I think it shows in my classes where I feel lucky to be able to engage discussions about these communication differences and where students of many colors open up about stuff many of us only say in similar company.

It shows up in that, in general, I have the easier time starting conversations with black strangers than I do with white (above and beyond my natural shyness). There are ways of joking, facial expressions, body language and the like that, along with linguistic devices like signifying, make that happen. I feel a tighness, a discomfort and find myself focusing on my speech and posture much more so around intellectual, upper-class whites (as I've named stereotype) than around people who are hispanic or black. (There is a lot of nuance to these stereotypes that I'm glossing over to make a point.) This is rough for me, for some of my students and some of my colleagues considering the demographic of the school at where I teach (it takes effor to put the preposition in the right place) is predominately intellectual, upper-class white.

The first year I taugh the class, for example, a number of white and Huxtable-type black students dismissed an old-school grafitti artist that came to tell his story and show slides of his work. (He'll remain anonymous for obvious reasons.) They complained the next day about repetition, some said he, "sounded stupid", etc. His presentation was on point and, had they not dismissed him out of hand because of their perception of his credibility and value they based on his speech patterns, they would have gained more about the early days of grafitti than they did. But, of course, you can imagine the revealing and fruitful conversation that came of that the next day. He'd been recommended by a local, current artist who was furious to learn that they ignored him on these grounds and re-hashed the discussion with them on the day he came in to teach them hands-on how to paint.

Let me also mention, this is a four-week, short-term course, not a full-year or even semester long, so our scope is limited. It's intended as an introduction, a sampling if you will, from which many of these students go on to enrich their knowlege on their own. (I'd love to make it semester- or year-long, but it isn't yet given the respect it deserves by the administration. Thus, why I can't fund Scorpio to come talk.) It's not name dropping to say I've had Khari Simmons (india.arie's bassist (her PR guy is a parent at my school)) and others speak to them about business, marketing, etc., and offer his expertise and studio space for them to record, but instead speaks to the level of expertise , trust and effort my guests are willing to put into it (in Khari's case for free). My teaching partner for this class (who, for what it's worth, is black) has contacted KRS-One through a friend of his who may come this year. A Zulu Nation member of the Funk Lordz and/or Burn Unit (both local b-boy crews) have/will come to teach dance. A childhood friend of Talib Kweli's (who'll remain anonymous) came in last year to teach the kids how to write 16 bars. One of Atlanta's local college Hip Hop DJs teaches beat juggling, etc. Last year when our Black Parent Organization culminated Black History Week at our school with a night exploring Hip Hop (for which I helped organize), a black (I hate to keep saing it, but it seems to convince whites) UGA professor who presented and teaches a course on Hip Hop personally invited me to come speak to his college class after hearing my portions of the presentation. I could go on, but someone will accuse me of name dropping, but then again I could just say, "Yeah, what's wrong with boasting?" My point is, if you think I'm teaching this class poorly, RobMoney$, I invite you to do better.

You couldn't have known all this of course, and I'm really not trying to be abrasive, but I feel a little like, "You're telling me about language?" when I grew up being made to feel embarrassed because I DID speak like this. And I have to say, there's something about the cold analysis of the academic rigor that saps the beauty (thank god I'm old enough to realize this now) from it. (Although I understand what's to be gained by passing stuff through the academic ringer.)

Okay, hopefully that's overkill. I hope this sparks a longer conversation. You seem sincere JC. (BTW, maybe you were poking fun of me for comparing "Substance of Style" to "An Andalusian Dog". If anything, I'm VERY gullible.)

[acamus]

The thing that offended me about this "story" was that you claim to be teaching a class, obviously an elective class, on the history of hip-hop to kids, yet you seem to have a total lack of knowledge on the subject yourself. I mean day one of your class should begin with Grandmaster Flash and DJ Cool Herc DJing parties in the Bronx.
It shows a lack of respect for hip-hop itself that you wouldn't know arguably the most influential person in the history of the subject.

That and the fact that you jumped down Pooty's throat for no apparent reason. You got awefully defensive as soon as someone politely pointed out a major flaw in your story.


As far as having a total lack of knowlege on the subject, no one I know including the DJ, the MCs, the dancers, the graf artists, the UGA professor I mentioned in my last post, etc. knows everything. Everytime we sit down to plan out the next version of the class, we get to talking about something that is new to someone in the group or for which there are competing perspectives. Someone at one of our first meetings, seeing the diversity of knowlege and perspectives, quoted KRS-One (I believe to be the original source, but if you know otherwise, bring it.) saying, "Each one, teach one." Try studying/teaching history for a taste of what I mean.

As far as not recognizing that Scorio wasn't Flash when Scorio introduced himself as Flash (in a sincere way) and I (nor you or too many others I would assume) didn't have any idea that's the way he does his introductions, was wearing a "Grandmaster Flash" jersey and handed me a Furious 5 business card, says nothing about my knowlege. But I'll go on the record again by saying, it's not the first mistake I've made and it won't be the last. I'll take it one step further and say, being able to recognize personalities is not a necessary condition for teaching such a class.

As far as "day one", they read "Can't Stop, Won't Stop" (I don't know a better account of Hip Hop's history) and "Bomb the Suburbs" (I don't know a book that agitates discussion more.). We watch in whole or in part: "Style Wars", "Scratch", "The Art of 16 Bars", "Just for Kicks", "Dithers", "The MC", "Freestyle", "Wildstyle", "The Freshest Kids", "Drop Shaddows", "The Revenge of the Robots", DJ Spooky's conversation with Robert Moog in "Moog", "The Run up", music videos and any relevant and interesting articles/photo spreads that pop up in "The Source", "XXL", "Vibe", "Waxpoetics", "blag", Mass Appeal", "Elemental", "Frank", "Scribble", "Beautiful Decay", "URB" etc. I expect my students to take control of their own education instead of just relying on teachers, so they bring their particular interests, their favorite Hip Hop, they analyze lyrics as assignments, they're encouraged to check my information and challenge me when they think I'm off.

As far as jumping down Pooty's throat, it irks me when someone says something like, "not to shit on you story" when they're doing just that. It's an insincere apology that makes the apologist a martyr. Polite? I prefer kindness over politness, but that definately ain't a polite way to point something like that out. Besides, what does some beef between Pooty and I have to do with you? Do you jump in other peoples drama all the time? Your life is gonna be miserable if you keep that up. No, I've got to think there's something more personal going on for you.

Then there's you. If you knew me, we could razz each other all day, but we don't. So, when you say things like, "But whatever man, the only thing left to do now is for the mods to delete this crap," I've got to wonder at what finishing school you learned to be polite, not to mention the other abrasive shit you've had to say.

[Nicodemus]

I took my dogs to the dog park today.

[acamus]

I took my dogs to the dog park today.

Did they get it all out? Did they get loose? Did they drop it like it's hot? I like dogs who like cats who like dogs.

[JohnnyChavello]

...I feel a little like, "You're telling me about language?" when I grew up being made to feel embarrassed because I DID speak like this. And I have to say, there's something about the cold analysis of the academic rigor that saps the beauty (thank god I'm old enough to realize this now) from it. (Although I understand what's to be gained by passing stuff through the academic ringer.)

Okay, hopefully that's overkill. I hope this sparks a longer conversation. You seem sincere JC. (BTW, maybe you were poking fun of me for comparing "Substance of Style" to "An Andalusian Dog". If anything, I'm VERY gullible.)

I wasn't impugning your credentials and didn't mean it as a referendum on your course (I understand that you realize this, just emphasizing), but I don't know what you have or haven't read. I brought it up because I read it recently, thought it had some relevance to the discussion, and because there's nothing I like to do more than pass on information about something new that engaged me intellectually. I do want to offer one defense of the book and its author: although textual analysis is notoriously cold, pretentious, and often reductive, I felt like Gates did well to avoid most of the pitfalls of academic writing, probably because he's acquainted with the subject and isn't writing as an anthropologist.

As for your movie: I wasn't being sarcastic. A little hyperbolic, but not sarcastic.

[RobMoney$]

I wasn't accusing you of hating, that jab was meant especially for other member$. I remember the discussion that Scopio and I having being very sincere and warm, but I figured that my judgement would be questioned after the mistake I made, so I figured I get the scoop straight from the scorp. He said on the phone this moring that he felt the same.

As far as it making a difference, maybe I take this too seriously, but my reputation IS important to me. This is a public forum and I want to be understood for what happened, not through some theory that I know doesn't hold water. (I'm not being snappy. I hope you understand my point. That's why I made the video; email and message postings don't convey the full truth. (i.e., knowhatimsayin'?))

As far as The Signifying Monkey, I've got it and skimmed it, but definately thanks for the heads up. There's something disconcerting about reading about black/carribean rhetorical devices like this. Growing up in a Jamaican (hillbilly-working class-Jamaican) family (having phenotypical white, black and hispanic family members) we spoke in ways that, because I was ostracised in school for it, I went to great pains to wash clean from my speech. Even as I type this, I realize how much I had to learn to speak like the rest of the kids. I had teachers who would publicly and humiliatingly correct grammatical quirks, syllable emphasis, and the like. In fact, I think there was a lot of poor (ill?) communication that happened because of those linguistic and cultural differences.

Beyond rhetoric, I grew up with more of a reliance on intuition rather than a search for hard facts and "the Truth". It seems you read widely, so I'm sure you've encountered this distinction that's often made between European and African/Carribean cultures. I've always resonated with the line "not perfect grammar, always perfect timing." I grew up in a family that mythologized, told tall tales, loosley paraphrased to the point of changing the meaning to reflect/inject emotion, etc. This approach is typically dismissed by the stereotypical European as inferior, but I still say there's a lot to be gained from the more intuitive approach. In this way, I've always felt I understood immediately the kind of discourse (god that word seems cumbersome ... uh ... considering the topic) that happens in Hip Hop. That's not to say that in this context, I stretched the truth in any conscious way. I'll leave it at that. If I need to say more, just let me know. (knowhatimsayin'?)

My mom tells a story (I was five years old or so) where I was playing with another kid in a department store. Appearantly, the little girl's mom overheard my mom speaking, grabbed her kid and told her she couldn't play with me. She and my mom got into a agument where this lady told my mom to go back to where she'd come from and that her child wasn't going to play with n!@@ers. I could recount tons of stories like that, that made me learn to mimic the speech patterns of the social group I would find myself in to "match my skin color."

I was lucky enough to attend FAMU (an historically black college) for four years where I often felt more at home than FSU from where I graduated. It was here where I learned a lot about the linguistic differences that I'd grown up with and was shuned for as a kid. (Not that being phenotypically white at a HBC didn't present it's own set of problems.) My point is that even where I don't know the linguistic terms for the differences in communication, I have an intuitive sense of it because that's how I speak when I phone my mom and dad. I think it shows in my classes where I feel lucky to be able to engage discussions about these communication differences and where students of many colors open up about stuff many of us only say in similar company.

It shows up in that, in general, I have the easier time starting conversations with black strangers than I do with white (above and beyond my natural shyness). There are ways of joking, facial expressions, body language and the like that, along with linguistic devices like signifying, make that happen. I feel a tighness, a discomfort and find myself focusing on my speech and posture much more so around intellectual, upper-class whites (as I've named stereotype) than around people who are hispanic or black. (There is a lot of nuance to these stereotypes that I'm glossing over to make a point.) This is rough for me, for some of my students and some of my colleagues considering the demographic of the school at where I teach (it takes effor to put the preposition in the right place) is predominately intellectual, upper-class white.

The first year I taugh the class, for example, a number of white and Huxtable-type black students dismissed an old-school grafitti artist that came to tell his story and show slides of his work. (He'll remain anonymous for obvious reasons.) They complained the next day about repetition, some said he, "sounded stupid", etc. His presentation was on point and, had they not dismissed him out of hand because of their perception of his credibility and value they based on his speech patterns, they would have gained more about the early days of grafitti than they did. But, of course, you can imagine the revealing and fruitful conversation that came of that the next day. He'd been recommended by a local, current artist who was furious to learn that they ignored him on these grounds and re-hashed the discussion with them on the day he came in to teach them hands-on how to paint.

Let me also mention, this is a four-week, short-term course, not a full-year or even semester long, so our scope is limited. It's intended as an introduction, a sampling if you will, from which many of these students go on to enrich their knowlege on their own. (I'd love to make it semester- or year-long, but it isn't yet given the respect it deserves by the administration. Thus, why I can't fund Scorpio to come talk.) It's not name dropping to say I've had Khari Simmons (india.arie's bassist (her PR guy is a parent at my school)) and others speak to them about business, marketing, etc., and offer his expertise and studio space for them to record, but instead speaks to the level of expertise , trust and effort my guests are willing to put into it (in Khari's case for free). My teaching partner for this class (who, for what it's worth, is black) has contacted KRS-One through a friend of his who may come this year. A Zulu Nation member of the Funk Lordz and/or Burn Unit (both local b-boy crews) have/will come to teach dance. A childhood friend of Talib Kweli's (who'll remain anonymous) came in last year to teach the kids how to write 16 bars. One of Atlanta's local college Hip Hop DJs teaches beat juggling, etc. Last year when our Black Parent Organization culminated Black History Week at our school with a night exploring Hip Hop (for which I helped organize), a black (I hate to keep saing it, but it seems to convince whites) UGA professor who presented and teaches a course on Hip Hop personally invited me to come speak to his college class after hearing my portions of the presentation. I could go on, but someone will accuse me of name dropping, but then again I could just say, "Yeah, what's wrong with boasting?" My point is, if you think I'm teaching this class poorly, RobMoney$, I invite you to do better.

You couldn't have known all this of course, and I'm really not trying to be abrasive, but I feel a little like, "You're telling me about language?" when I grew up being made to feel embarrassed because I DID speak like this. And I have to say, there's something about the cold analysis of the academic rigor that saps the beauty (thank god I'm old enough to realize this now) from it. (Although I understand what's to be gained by passing stuff through the academic ringer.)

Okay, hopefully that's overkill. I hope this sparks a longer conversation. You seem sincere JC. (BTW, maybe you were poking fun of me for comparing "Substance of Style" to "An Andalusian Dog". If anything, I'm VERY gullible.)


97 times. Self serving much?
Hey man, I wish you all the best with your class.

And for what it's worth, I feel more stressed and uncomfortable around upper-class whites than blacks or hispanics too, and I'm white. It's just naturally a more formal setting being around "upper-class" people, it's got nothing to do with race.

[acamus]

97 times. Self serving much?
Hey man, I wish you all the best with your class.

And for what it's worth, I feel more stressed and uncomfortable around upper-class whites than blacks or hispanics too, and I'm white. It's just naturally a more formal setting being around "upper-class" people, it's got nothing to do with race.

I was defending MY actions so, yes, I'D have to use a lot of personal pronouns. Otherwise passive voice would have to be used which would make it sound like responsibility was being abnegated, and the sentences would end up sounding like this one -- like shite.

Well, maybe it's got nothing to do with race for you, and I can understand that, but it does for me. Yes, ecconomic class differences can be a divide, but so can cultural differences, which isn't the same as race, but often correspond to race. (And, yes, none of this holds true for ALL the members of said groups. Let's just make that a given if we continue this disscussion, which is a better discussion than what exactly went down on that train that day.) As I said, I was glossing over a lot of nuance to make a point and still am, but the vibe between us is getting better. Thanks for the best wishes. I hope you understand better where I'm coming from.

[acamus]

I wasn't impugning your credentials and didn't mean it as a referendum on your course (I understand that you realize this, just emphasizing), but I don't know what you have or haven't read. I brought it up because I read it recently, thought it had some relevance to the discussion, and because there's nothing I like to do more than pass on information about something new that engaged me intellectually. I do want to offer one defense of the book and its author: although textual analysis is notoriously cold, pretentious, and often reductive, I felt like Gates did well to avoid most of the pitfalls of academic writing, probably because he's acquainted with the subject and isn't writing as an anthropologist.

As for your movie: I wasn't being sarcastic. A little hyperbolic, but not sarcastic.

Again, sincerely, thanks for the heads up on the book. If you run across anything else, I'd love to hear about it.

Are you a copyright attorney, a law student or just generally interested in intellectual property issues? I've skimmed your posts, saw your signature and notice you vocabulary.

I love me some hyperbole.

[blipstutter]

Ummm...That's not GMF. Flash is in the background with the Jeff Hat.


Woah, you're not kidding. That's a picture of Raheim.
I tried to link to another page entirely with pictures of JUST Flash on it.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[blipstutter]

so, either you're saying I'm lying or you have some other theory as to who passes out these business cards. be straight. what are you saying? thanks for the link.[QUOTE=acamus;1530678]

Look man, your story doesn't entirely add up. Obviously you realize that.
I have no idea why you're coming at me like that.

[QUOTE=acamus;1530678]
hey, i didn't play ignorant. i am ignorant about a lot of things. what would it even mean to "play like you meant to be ignorant"? re-read what i wrote or posted to YouTube.

Actually, you've taken the stance that by openly admitting your shortcomings of knowledge on the subject, it's acceptable for you to be teaching a topic you're still learning about. That's pretty arrogant.
To intellectualize that arrogance as some intentional teaching aid and name drop a teacher who uses the technique of purposely misleading his students to mask the fact that you are unintentionally misleading your students... makes you a total clown.


do you teach? what gives you the position on your high horse? what makes you so invested anyway? are you gmf?

Yeah I guess I'm a teacher, since I'm teaching you right now.
Lesson #1.... the book Can't Stop Won't Stop is a far from accurate account of Hip Hop's origins.

[acamus]

Mohamed loves you, this I know for Rick Lannielo told me so. He said, "I told that stutterin' fool to go start his own damn class and crush your sorry ass. You don't know, acamus. You a fool, son. Blipers wrote his own book, but some fool on an Ego Trip stold it and published it like it was some damn grocery list. You're an embarassment to your race. I've already called John Stossel's hotline and he said, "Give me a break, I'm gonna investigate this fraud. And on top of it, this guy thinks he's some kind of special white person. Don't worry, Rick, I've got a call into the NAACP. We're taking this half-breed down like I did David Schults."" I don't know, that's what he said. I'ma give up and start a class on LovePats(r), you know those old-women's drawers? Now, that's something I'm a scholar on!

[JohnnyChavello]

Are you a copyright attorney, a law student or just generally interested in intellectual property issues?

I'm an intellectual property attorney (copyright and trademark). I've written and researched a lot about copyright issues involved in sampling. Some of that research has centered on the free speech implications of courts narrowly construing copyright laws to limit certain defenses to copyright infringement. This is how I originally got into Louis Gates' work on Signifyin(g) as a method of textual analysis. In trying to understand the real impact these laws have on free expression, it was important for me to understand exactly how the expression operates and what codes are in play.

Lesson #1.... the book Can't Stop Won't Stop is a far from accurate account of Hip Hop's origins.

What's your criticism of Chang's book? I read it and thought it was actually pretty good. That's not to say there might not be problems with it, but a lot of his history is accounted for by interviews with people like Clive Campbell (Herc) and Joseph Saddler (Flash).

[blipstutter]

"What's your criticism of Chang's book? "

The timeline's screwed up, firstly.

Herc (who truly wouldn't approve of your use of his government name) was important, but he was not the first. Chang, working as a historian, should have dug deeper then playing up the mythology of the Hip Hop Trinity. How can you write a cultural history about Hip Hop's formation and not include characters like Petey Greene? If Hollywood could figure out who that was, why couldn't a so called Hip Hop scholar? My problem with the books is mainly with the early history chapters, and honestly it's been a while since I've picked it apart.

Here are some interviews worth reading if you're interested in the foundation of hip hop... not the best writing/editing, but really good info:
http://www.jayquan.com/foundation.htm

[acamus]

First, thanks for the link. It's always good to check another source.

Secondly, there's always caveats to any record of history; there's never a perfect account. As far as firsts, as Nas says through the character of Hip Hop, "Nah it goes way to an earlier date/Slave times ..." You could say the cave paintings at Lascaux were really the first example of grafitti, but I don't. You could say sampling started in 1961 with James Tenney, but I don't. These would all be valid points, and I'm always sure to point them out to my students, but every historian chooses a point that they judge to be the watershed moment.

As far as your issues with me/my class, in what way are you thinking my story doesn't add up? And what do you mean by "I have no idea why you're coming at me like that?" You quoted me saying, "so, either you're saying I'm lying or you have some other theory as to who passes out these business cards. be straight. what are you saying?" I didn't mean anything snarky. I was asking you what you thought I had done: lied, been duped or something else. That's all. Text doesn't convey tone too well and I didn't mean for my question to carry ANY tone other than quizzical.

As far as your issue with the way I teach, there's not much I can say. I'm not masking anything. It's not conventional, but I'm not alone either. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

I can't say this enough. There are no fighting words or tone intended in this post. If you think there is, quote the offending words/lines and tell me what attitude you think I'm bringing.

[blipstutter]

Lost my original response, but....

1) James Tenney didn't invent sampling in 1961. Did you just pick that name up somewhere? Tape loops, and sampling, originally known as tape music predates 1961, and can't be credited to any one person. Stockhausen was doing 4 channel tape pieces by 1956. Tod Dockstader was making collage music from cartoon sounds by 1958.

2) It's not merely unconventional to teach from a perspetive of misunderstanding, or worse an admitted lack of understanding, it's fraud. You're not qualified.

[acamus]

Lost my original response, but....

1) James Tenney didn't invent sampling in 1961. Did you just pick that name up somewhere? Tape loops, and sampling, originally known as tape music predates 1961, and can't be credited to any one person. Stockhausen was doing 4 channel tape pieces by 1956. Tod Dockstader was making collage music from cartoon sounds by 1958.

2) It's not merely unconventional to teach from a perspetive of misunderstanding, or worse an admitted lack of understanding, it's fraud. You're not qualified.

1) You are not addressing the larger point, namely that one can point to earlier examples as "true" beginnings of any practice yet argue for watershed events, so I'm going to assume I'm wasting my time responding to this point any further.

2) You are setting up a straw man. I am not teaching from a perspective of misunderstanding nor lack of understanding; that's your characterization. As I've said, I invite my students to challenge anything I and all of my guests present. You may also want to look up the definition of "fraud" before you use it as an insult. (It involves the intention to deceive.) So again, I'm wasting my time responding to this point any further.

I leave you in peace.

[Lyman Zerga]

omg hip hop nerds!

[Lex Diamonds]

Yeah exactly. You guys should know that this isn't what hip-hop's about. The history should be told through the music, not through books written by middle aged chumps.

[beastieboysbaby]

hip hop rules the world

[RobMoney$]

Yeah exactly. You guys should know that this isn't what hip-hop's about. The history should be told through the music, not through books written by middle aged chumps.

Let acamus have his 15 minutes of fame. He's clearly loving the attention.
He should have let this thread die days ago.

[acamus]

Yeah exactly. You guys should know that this isn't what hip-hop's about. The history should be told through the music, not through books written by middle aged chumps.

"If-if you are listening to the new Z-Trip album on Hollywood Records, we’re here, we’re being silly, we got Supernatural, Z-Trip, I’m Murs and I like to have a good time and on Saturday mornings I used to like to get a big, fat bowl of cereal and watch cartoons, motherfucker, and if that -- if you can’t relate to this song you’re taking this shit too serious. It’s hip-hop, man, it’s-it’s fuckin’ fun."

You're a big meanie, Padster, and I'm gonna tell on you. Besides, my history book is smarter than your history book. :p

[acamus]

Let acamus have his 15 minutes of fame. He's clearly loving the attention.
He should have let this thread die days ago.

I'm famou$er than you are. Nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo doo. :p

[Lyman Zerga]

they should record the WHOLE conversation on youtube
scorpio will play gmf and young axl rose will play scorpio and old axl rose will play acamus, stutter is j.j...j.azzy jeff!

everyone happy? no? who cares

[acamus]

they should record the WHOLE conversation on youtube
scorpio will play gmf and young axl rose will play scorpio and old axl rose will play acamus, stutter is j.j...j.azzy jeff!

everyone happy? no? who cares

why you so crazy? i want to be played by Henrietta Pussycat. That way when I don't know what I'm talking about I can just go, "Hip Hop started in meow, meow."

[blipstutter]

1) You are not addressing the larger point, namely that one can point to earlier examples as "true" beginnings of any practice yet argue for watershed events

You just credited someone for doing something they didn't do.
There is no larger point.
Play your position.


Also, to the fool who thinks Hip Hop is told by the music alone, please consider that you're talking about a culture which includes a lot more the the rapper or the mc or even the dj, and some of the biggest contributors were never recognized.

[alikat]

This thread started out about Grandmaster Flash, right?

The message

(e.fletcher, s.robinson, c.chase, m.glover -
Sugarhill records 82)
Broken glass everywhere
People pissing on the stairs, you know they just
Dont care
I cant take the smell, I cant take the noise
Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice
Rats in the front room, roaches in the back
Junkies in the alley with a baseball bat
I tried to get away, but I couldnt get far
Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car
Chorus:
Dont push me, cause Im close to the edge
Im trying not to loose my head
Its like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder
How I keep from going under

Standing on the front stoop, hangin out the window
Watching all the cars go by, roaring as the breezes
Blow
Crazy lady, livin in a bag
Eating out of garbage piles, used to be a fag-hag
Search and test a tango, skips the life and then go
To search a prince to see the last of senses
Down at the peepshow, watching all the creeps
So she can tell the stories to the girls back home
She went to the city and got so so so ditty
She had to get a pimp, she couldnt make it on her
Own

Chorus:
Its like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder
How I keep from goin under

My brothers doing fast on my mothers t.v.
Says she watches to much, is just not healthy
All my children in the daytime, dallas at night
Cant even see the game or the sugar ray fight
Bill collectors they ring my phone
And scare my wife when Im not home
Got a bum education, double-digit inflation
Cant take the train to the job, theres a strike
At the station
Me on king kong standin on my back
Cant stop to turn around, broke my sacroiliac
Midrange, migraine, cancered membrane
Sometimes I think Im going insane, I swear I might
Hijack a plane!

Chorus:

My son said daddy I dont wanna go to school
Cause the teachers a jerk, he must think Im a
Fool
And all the kids smoke reefer, I think itd be
Cheaper
If I just got a job, learned to be a street sweeper
I dance to the beat, shuffle my feet
Wear a shirt and tie and run with the creeps
Cause its all about money, aint a damn thing
Funny
You got to have a con in this land of milk and
Honey
They push that girl in front of a train
Took her to a doctor, sowed the arm on again
Stabbed that man, right in his heart
Gave him a transplant before a brand new start
I cant walk through the park, cause its crazy
After the dark
Keep my hand on the gun, cause they got me on the
Run
I feel like an outlaw, broke my last fast jaw
Hear them say you want some more, livin on a
Seesaw

Chorus:

A child was born, with no state of mind
Blind to the ways of mankind
God is smiling on you but hes frowning too
Cause only God knows what you go through
You grow in the ghetto, living second rate
And your eyes will sing a song of deep hate
The places you play and where you stay
Looks like one great big alley way
Youll admire all the number book takers
Thugs, pimps, pushers and the big money makers
Driving big cars, spending twenties and tens
And you wanna grow up to be just like them
Smugglers, scrambles, burglars, gamblers
Pickpockets, peddlers and even pan-handlers
You say Im cool, Im no fool
But then you wind up dropping out of high school
Now youre unemployed, all null n void
Walking around like youre pretty boy floyd
Turned stickup kid, look what you done did
Got send up for a eight year bid
Now your man is took and youre a may tag
Spend the next two years as an undercover fag
Being used and abused, and served like hell
Till one day you was find hung dead in a cell
It was plain to see that your life was lost
You was cold and your body swung back and forth
But now your eyes sing the sad sad song
Of how you lived so fast and died so young.