people should have more respect for pole dancers.

[cookiepuss]

well it's true. But so often they get lumped in with your run of mill strippers. It doesn't take much talent to strip. lots of people can pull it off. however...

Someone who can truly work the pole well basically has to have the strength and felxibility of a gymnist and the grace of a ballerina. I have the utmost respect for them.

I wish I could do THIS (http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=17302720)

She is a friend of mine. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/idivulge/l_96e25c478832dc471d9a8f0f48ea4dd4.jpg) she's amazing. I really wish (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/idivulge/l_230a989817198a8f33ae0e961a0bfd2b.jpg)that she didn't live in Tuscon, cause I'd go watch her dance all the time.(y)


I definfinitely think it's an under appreciated artform.

[Freebasser]

Kind of a coincidence that her home has a pole in it.

Is her boyfriend a fireman?

[cookiepuss]

Kind of a coincidence that her home has a pole in it.

Is her boyfriend a fireman?

yeah. totally. a fireman.;)


she also teaches classes on pole dancing. you ain't gonna be any good if you don't practice. of course she has one at her house.

I acutally checked out getting one for my house. but it's a bit pricey. and it would be so sad if I tried. I'm mean I'm so damn weak I'd never get myself up on that thing. it would be comical at best. I need to loose 25 pounds and start lifitn weights before I'd ever come close to beign able to hoist myself up on that.

[Freebasser]

But she is a part-time firefighter, right?

[Yetra Flam]

ooh do they have pole dancing classes for children?

[cookiepuss]

she makes me pretty hot. *bada bing*

[Freebasser]

No, you see - you're supposed to say something along the lines of "No, she works in a bar/office/cinema and I'm supposed to reply with "Sure. When she's not fighting fires" and then the canned laughter kicks in and you roll your eyes as we fade to commercial.

[cookiepuss]

No, you see - you're supposed to say something along the lines of "No, she works in a bar/office/cinema and I'm supposed to reply with "Sure. When she's not fighting fires" and then the canned laughter kicks in and you roll your eyes as we fade to commercial.

actually she takes her clothes off for money... when shes not fighting fires.(y)


sorry i screwed that up. should we do another take? I can try again. wait are we live??

[Bob]

*GONG*

[ToucanSpam]

Does that mean the thread is over, or just Freebasser's career as a stand up comedian?

[cookiepuss]

ooh do they have pole dancing classes for children?

oh yeah, there's a "Mommy and ME" pole dancing class at Gymboree. Fo' sure. but they totally discriminate against male babies.

[Freebasser]

Wait are we live??

We were until you killed us!

I think it's time we worked on our solo projects :mad:

[Yorkshire~Rose]

I wish I could do THIS (http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=17302720)


That is impressive.

I am one of those people who couldn't climb the rope in the gym at school :/

[kaiser soze]

I wonder if she's polish?

[cookiepuss]

That is impressive.

I am one of those people who couldn't climb the rope in the gym at school :/

totally. I couldn't either. and honestly, if I had to, I STILL couldn't do it. (n)

[ffcp]

I admire what they do(y)

[hitmonlee]

im so glad we never had to try and climb ropes in gym

[Randetica]

sorry but im already saving my respect for child abusers and presidents

[venusvenus123]

yes pole dancers really are people to be respected.

this article pretty much sums up my feeling on pole dancing (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2224694,00.html)

[Yetra Flam]

yeah, i feel pretty much the same.

[cosmo105]

right on, sister. (y)

[Schmeltz]

^Three in a row. Can I ask you ladies - how do you feel about belly dancers?

[cookiepuss]

yes pole dancers really are people to be respected.

this article pretty much sums up my feeling on pole dancing (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2224694,00.html)

awe, for crying out loud. yes, you know, women must deny thier sexuality in order to be empowered and gain equanimity among men. that's your brand of feminism, but it ain't mine.

wanna know what i thinks wrong with teenage girls who think the only way to be powerful is to be sexy? Thier fucking parents. Thier parents, who don't talk to them about sex, or womens roles/issues, or pay attention to what the kids are watching/getting exposed to. Kids are naturally curious about sex and they are easily seduced by the images they are exposed to. they way to deal with that is dialog. But when it comes down to it kids aren't wrong. Sex does give people power, it's straight up naive to say it doesn't. but if you don't want you kids using sex as a tool to get things they want in life, you better take the time to talk about how to respect sex and the power it has. period.

pole dancing isn't exactly something kids are getting exposed to much, since it pretty much takes place in ADULT clubs. The exposure kids can get to it on youtube is pretty minmal and it's not NUDE pole dancing either.

if pole dancers were performing with Cirque De Sole (oh my, they do a nude acrobatics show too. oh!) they'd be considered artists/gymnists.

if you have a problem with womenz taking thier closes off for money and thats what you need to focus on, then I support you in your need to do so. That's an argument and position I can understand. but what I'm trying to say is, (aside from the nudity and money exchanging hands) some of these women are actually talented. In my opinion, if you deny their talent then you are basically jealous.

[DandyFop]

What that chick did doesn't even look like pole dancing though. I wouldn't associate that with what you would see going into any regular old strip club.

When you say "have more respect for pole dancers", well what do MOST pole dancers do/look like? They grind up against a fucking pole and shake their ass in guys faces so they can get money. You can't get away from that basic fact.

[Yetra Flam]

i mean, everyone has their own opinions about these things, and if you respect pole dancers and admire their work that's fine. but i think there are always going to be women (maybe some men, who knows?) who have a lot of contempt for strippers and pole dancers. and that's fine too.
i have my opinions for my own reasons - i think that women who work in that field put the rest of the female population in a very bad position and reinforce unrealistic ideals that most of us can't live up to.
and i don't like it when i'm made to feel like a jealous prude (i'm not saying you're making me feel like that at all, i'm just saying that's how some people react)
agree to disagree!

[cookiepuss]

What that chick did doesn't even look like pole dancing though. I wouldn't associate that with what you would see going into any regular old strip club.



this is the distinction I'm trying to make with the examples I provided.(not my fault if people choose not to look at them and assume I'm talking about one thing when I'm talking about another) Whatever you though pole dancing was...THIS (i.e. the video I posted) is what it should be.

if that's not what you're seeing when you go to a club you're getting cheated. Ask for your cover charge back, gents.

[cookiepuss]

agree to disagree!

I know what you are saying. I don't expect people to convert to my view either.


and the title to the thread is likely a bit inflamatory. But I guess that's cause I'm not talented enough to come up with one that is consice enough to encompass my whole position in one sentence. for the most part I think most of us come up with thread titles that capture attention. and that's what I did.

[befsquire]

if a person chooses to strip for money, that's her business and i'm glad she's not collecting welfare. but, i have zero respect for them because to me, respect is for people who educate themselves and try to make money off their brains, not their bodies.

but hey, if you dig that shit and that's what you respect, that's cool. just understand that some women feel that strippers set women back. it's a step shy of prostitution, and quite frankly, a lot of strippers hook on the side.

[Randetica]

if a person chooses to strip for money, that's her business and i'm glad she's not collecting welfare. but, i have zero respect for them because to me, respect is for people who educate themselves and try to make money off their brains, not their bodies.

but hey, if you dig that shit and that's what you respect, that's cool. just understand that some women feel that strippers set women back. it's a step shy of prostitution, and quite frankly, a lot of strippers hook on the side.

yeah thats what i meant in my earlier post!

(y)

[ET]

Ass clap = Respect

[cookiepuss]

if a person chooses to strip for money, that's her business and i'm glad she's not collecting welfare. but, i have zero respect for them because to me, respect is for people who educate themselves and try to make money off their brains, not their bodies.

but hey, if you dig that shit and that's what you respect, that's cool. just understand that some women feel that strippers set women back. it's a step shy of prostitution, and quite frankly, a lot of strippers hook on the side.

ugh. but I'm not talking about women who just take thier clothes off for money. There still seems to be some confusion about what I'm talking about and what I'm not talking about.

there are pole dancing competitions where they don't take thier clothes off at all!!!!

I said from the begining I'm not talking about your run of the mill strippers who swing around a pole. I'm talking about women who, yes, may perform nude, but do fucking gymnastics on the pole.

I'm not talking about respecting them for taking their clothes off. I'm talking about respecting the gymnastics and grace they have in working with a verticle pole. Pole dancing performances can be nude or not nude.

I'm not saying there isn't seedyness to stripping or that there aren't some women out there stripping for the wrong reasons. I'm saying there's a some exotic dancers who are different from others and they bring a real sense of performance art to what they are doing. Can we get it straight that I'm not talking about all strippers in general...as most of you who seem to be responding are commenting on stripping as a whole instead of talking about pole work, which is what this conversation is suppose to be about.:rolleyes:

[TOY]

I have no respect for pole dancers. None. I don't care what SuicideGirls say. They're still disgusting and dumb. Pussy on dry ice? Eugh!

I hate them. Especially when they sabotage friendships, date 50 year old cokehead men on the side (who smash up my naive friend's car with a baseball bat out of jealousy), give said friend a heaping case of herpes and leave the poor bastard out in the cold with a heaping case of herpes. He was blinded by "love". Gay.

Strippers are all of the same ilk. Period.

[cookiepuss]

ok. one more time and then I'll let you continue on with your close mindedness and inability OR REFUSAL to ACTUALLY read what I'm posting.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH STRIPPERS OR YOUR DISLIKE OF THEM.

NOT ALL POLE DANCERS ARE STRIPPERS.

EXAMPLES:

Ballet + Pole dancing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm5lQUNx1C8)

Danielle Rueda (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b25JVZg9BDQ&NR=1)Ballet Dancer & acrobat Danielle Rueda Watts with art projections for a pole dancer series. Taking an exotic dance and transforming it into an original fine art form.


YOu might have thought pole dancing was just something women did, but you'de wrong, cause here's a big gay man doing it, so do we have a problem with that too??? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el105y-8TFs&feature=related)


anyway I'm done. there are plenty of examples of pole dancing rooted in acrobatics and circus performances, not just in strip clubs. I've been saying all along that it's almost rare to see really good acrobatic pole dancing in a strip club. but there are some women out there in strip clubs doing it. that's what I was trying to talk about and bring attention to.

but no one cares. strippers are scum and set women back and that's all we wanna talk about and we can't see anything else other than that and our personal expereinces that were unpleasant.(y) Good for you.

[Randetica]

all pole dancers are hookers that need to get raped to death with their own fucking poles!

[DandyFop]

How do you expect people not to form opinions of things based on their own experiences? That just makes no sense. That's what we, as humans, do. In every single thread on this forum, someone brings up a subject, and we all relate to it with things from our own life. So to say HEY HERE LOOK POLEDANCERS, SEE, SEE THEY AREN'T LIKE WHAT YOU THOUGHT, HEY LOOK LOOK AT THIS ONE IS ALL FANCY AND ARTISTIC, SO CHANGE YOUR OPINION, well guess what? It's not going to work.

Some of this shit you posted was interesting. It doesn't make me want to go see a pole dancer though. I just don't care. I still believe the environment that surrounds it is toxic in most cases.

[venusvenus123]

ok. one more time and then I'll let you continue on with your close mindedness and inability OR REFUSAL to ACTUALLY read what I'm posting.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH STRIPPERS OR YOUR DISLIKE OF THEM.

NOT ALL POLE DANCERS ARE STRIPPERS.

EXAMPLES:

Ballet + Pole dancing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm5lQUNx1C8)
what am i respecting here? she's obviously not making enough money in her role as a ballet dancer, so she's making extra cash in a strip club. i thought her first dance was a fairly interesting way of performing ballet, with the pole replacing the role usually played by the man, but the second one was plain stripping.

i guess it's just not my cup of tea--i find it quite boring. i also don't see how you can argue against it being all about exciting men. i don't know who the male stripper was trying to excite. i think that was comedy.:confused:

[Satan]

I have no respect for pole dancers. None. I don't care what SuicideGirls say. They're still disgusting and dumb. Pussy on dry ice? Eugh!

I hate them. Especially when they sabotage friendships, date 50 year old cokehead men on the side (who smash up my naive friend's car with a baseball bat out of jealousy), give said friend a heaping case of herpes and leave the poor bastard out in the cold with a heaping case of herpes. He was blinded by "love". Gay.

Strippers are all of the same ilk. Period.

Your "friend" was stoopid enough to be involved with the slut. So I'd have no empathy for the idiotic man he has become.

Karama is a bitch. isn't it?

[Randetica]

Karama is a bitch. isn't it?

so pole dancers are karma?

[cookiepuss]

So to say HEY HERE LOOK POLEDANCERS, SEE, SEE THEY AREN'T LIKE WHAT YOU THOUGHT, HEY LOOK LOOK AT THIS ONE IS ALL FANCY AND ARTISTIC, SO CHANGE YOUR OPINION, well guess what? It's not going to work.

Some of this shit you posted was interesting. It doesn't make me want to go see a pole dancer though. I just don't care. I still believe the environment that surrounds it is toxic in most cases.

well beleive it or not it's not my crusade in life to get you accept or like pole dancing. what I'm frusterated about it is that people have been making comments on stripping instead of pole dancing. the only thing I've been trying to get you to realize is that they are different things that aren't always mutually exclusive. In actuality only about 1% of people here actually know what pole dancing is and what it's suppose to look like. What I am clear on is that most of you have some very stringent preconsieved notions about what pole dancing and the industries that support it are. I've been trying, unsucessfully, to bring the broader scope of things into light.

the end.

[TOY]

Your "friend" was stoopid enough to be involved with the slut. So I'd have no empathy for the idiotic man he has become.

Karama is a bitch. isn't it?

Coming from the retard who spelled stupid with two o's instead of one u. :rolleyes: Fucking spare me.

Go browse more of jurgita.com or whatever. Pretty soon you'll be seeing my fat ass on there, no doubt.

KARMA'S A BITCH!

[hitmonlee]

"pole dancers" are people who are too old/washed up/not good enough to be a gymnast or in the circus.

i don't have any respect for sporting prowess. you either have it or you don't. you can train yourself to be better, but basically its something you're born with.

its not like i respect people for being good looking, why would i respect pole dancers for athletic ability?

[russhie]

The thing I have the most problem with, I guess, isn't about how artistic or athletic a poledancer is, it's that these things are pretty much lost on the men who are watching, if they are actually apparent at all.

Fully clothed or completely naked, you can bet that a crowd of men will not be scoring her on her technical ablility, or raving about her artistic expression - it's just a sexy woman swinging sexily on a pole, end of story.

Does this mean that while a poledancer is happily swinging away on her pole, thinking, "I'm empowering women by showcasing my sexuality in an athletic and artistic manner" a large portion of the veiwing audience quietly gets off on her "artistic ability"? Probably. How is it then empowering and respectful to have people view you soley as a sex object?

Telling people who don't respect it that they're jealous is childish and immature. They just see it differently to you, is all.

[Otis Driftwood]

well it's true. But so often they get lumped in with your run of mill strippers. It doesn't take much talent to strip. lots of people can pull it off. however...

I definfinitely think it's an under appreciated artform.
Don't knock run of the mill stripping, 'cause the true artistes there are few and far between.
This made me think of Kelly's pole dancing classes in King of Queens. I lmaoed at that, but chicks actually taking classes and learning from professionals indicates a growing appreciation in the populace.

[cookiepuss]

"pole dancers" are people who are too old/washed up/not good enough to be a gymnast or in the circus.

i don't have any respect for sporting prowess. you either have it or you don't. you can train yourself to be better, but basically its something you're born with.


I don't agree at all. Athletes, born with a certain amount of athletic talent or not, work and train very hard. it take discipline to be good not just talent. personally I can respect that.

as for the first statement, I also don't agree. But I find it interesting that you come to that conclusion..Venus came to a similar one about the ballerina. that's quite a bit of speculation considering you really know nothing about the people in the videos. It seems like the kind of thing you say becasue it's just easier for you to beleive than to accept that the person maybe trying out a new oulet for thier talents. I don't think it has anything with not being good enough to be a gymnist or ballerina. Personally, I don't think they doing it as a last resort. but you think that because of the stigmatism that pole dancing only takes place in seedy strip clubs and only a certain kind of woman does it.

Otis makes a valid point about the popularity of pole dancing classes. Obviously theres a good number of people who can see past the superficial aspects of it and they want to try it for exercise and maybe as a fun way to get thier partners excited.

[venusvenus123]

The thing I have the most problem with, I guess, isn't about how artistic or athletic a poledancer is, it's that these things are pretty much lost on the men who are watching, if they are actually apparent at all.

Fully clothed or completely naked, you can bet that a crowd of men will not be scoring her on her technical ablility, or raving about her artistic expression - it's just a sexy woman swinging sexily on a pole, end of story.

Does this mean that while a poledancer is happily swinging away on her pole, thinking, "I'm empowering women by showcasing my sexuality in an athletic and artistic manner" a large portion of the veiwing audience quietly gets off on her "artistic ability"? Probably. How is it then empowering and respectful to have people view you soley as a sex object?

Telling people who don't respect it that they're jealous is childish and immature. They just see it differently to you, is all.
spot on(y)

cookiepuss, i said that that dancer was doing the pole dancing because she's not making enough money as a ballet dancer--they make terrible money for huge amounts of effort. does it really matter what her motivation is? perhaps it's because she's prefers having a bunch of drunk men wolf-whistle at her to a standing ovation at the theatre. who knows?

i don't know why it's so important to you that we all applaud pole dancing in some way.

[abcdefz]

It's empowering to exploit yourself through objectification!

[cookiepuss]

i don't know why it's so important to you that we all applaud pole dancing in some way.

dude. it's not. this is called a discussion or even a debate. that's a forum where people present opposing views. At the most, both sides of an issue are equally represented for participants to evaluate and take away what they wish from it. at the very best maybe some middle ground is discovered. you present one view and I come back with a different one and then someone counter's my view with something else and it goes on until everyone has decided they have no further input. that's how this works.

[Randetica]

THE END

[paul jones]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away........

[TOY]

I just really wish you'd grow out of that SuicideGirl bullshit.

[cookiepuss]

I just really wish you'd grow out of that SuicideGirl bullshit.

I guess you are talking to me?

um..well for one I wish you people would quit labling me as a suicidegirl advocate. I'm not. At one point i was a paying memeber of thier site and at that time I liked what I saw. I thought they presented an interesting alternative to the cookiecutter women on other pinup sites and during that time I had not problem talking about the fact that I enjoyed that alternative. But suicide girls has thier own bullshit I got tired of it and I canceled my memebership. I have not been a member on the site for almost a year.

I'm not going to grow out of my views that women can do what they want with thier bodies in what ever forum that they choose. I'm idealistic in the fact that I'd like women to be able to express thier sexuality in any fucking way they choose without it being an invitation for abuse and ridicule. I don't really think it's too much to ask for that freedom, however utopian the concept.

For the record Suicide girls make zero official statements about advocating strippers/pole dancers. Thier sole purpose is to publish alternative pin-up and make a profit. Some of thier models are exotic dancers, but some of their models are also: mothers, artists, students, dancers, welders, musicians, singers, administrative assitstant and various other professions.

I'm sorry you feel the need to pigeon hole me into some sort of made up suicidegirls philosophy. The fact of the matter is I held the same views before I was a member of suicidegirls and I have not changed my views after leaving suicidegirls. I like women. I like looking at women. I like men too and enjoy looking at men. This is who i am. This is who I have always been. it's not my problem if it offends you.

[Randetica]

SuicideFeminists

[hitmonlee]

I don't agree at all. Athletes, born with a certain amount of athletic talent or not, work and train very hard. it take discipline to be good not just talent. personally I can respect that.


they aren't exactly curing cancer or anything though.

[russhie]

^They're keeping the blokes happy, though, because apparently girlfriends are just too much trouble.

[Otis Driftwood]

Like listening to stories about how boring you are trouble?