meeting the resistance

[drizl]

worth taking a look at.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh_ODqC3g_s)

there is nothing to win in iraq, they dont want us there. is iraq more dangerous now, or back when saddam was in power? are there more terrorists now, or back before we invaded afghanistan? will this trend continue so long as we are in the middle east?

this film is great because it is one fo the first times we have been given a glimpse into the lives of ordinary iraqis, one of the first times we have been able to hear what they have to say. it is essential to understanding, to see both sides in this war.
if security is our ultimate goal, we must make ammends, and leave, and promise to put an end to the exploitation in the middle east.

[yeahwho]

As in the other thread "leave Iraq (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=84421)" , I couldn't agree more with you on leaving. My sincere belief is the military industrial complex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex) has hoodwinked millions of American citizens into thinking we have some sort of noble cause at stake.

It is my fondest hope that the mindset of the US can be reasoned with enough to understand the mission was a mistake, the accomplishment we're searching for is out of reach with this path we're taking. The war was over in Iraq before it ever began, lets settle our debt and secure the oil fields as this administration intended from the outset. Leave Iraq.

[kaiser soze]

This mission in Iraq was not a mistake...it was purposefully setup

So many other humanitarian disasters occurring and the U.S. sets it sights on Iraq destroying a nation, the credibility of the U.S., and the support for the U.S. during the crisis of 9/11

[drizl]

word.






they knew what would happen (civil war) and they encouraged it. they studied a war plan before invading and were already preparing for the war when bush got into office. PNAC lays it all out.
their intentions are to maintain a certain level of semi-controlllable chaos and establish permanent bases in the middle east. oil too, supressing muslim folk as well. its a continuing on of the horrible military legacy/history america has created for itself.

[yeahwho]

This mission in Iraq was not a mistake...it was purposefully setup

So many other humanitarian disasters occurring and the U.S. sets it sights on Iraq destroying a nation, the credibility of the U.S., and the support for the U.S. during the crisis of 9/11

You are correct, I keep giving some of the fellow board members an out. I also keep compromising myself and worst giving the current administration of the US a free ride every time I use terms such as "mistake", "bringing democracy", stabilizing the "Iraqi people" or any other GWB thinkspeak on our oil addiction. We have completely fucked over Iraq.

It seems almost as if free thought and objectivity have left millions of citizens. I am relatively naive because of my location, here in Seattle I would have to say everyone agrees, bring home our troops, let's impeach Bush, Cheney and get back to solving the middle east crisis on a diplomatic level.

Embedded reporting along with corporate media dominate, it sucks to hear otherwise logical people agree, condone and sympathize with the way the USofA leadership justifies the Iraqi occupation.

[yeahwho]

Of course right after the above post I read an article in the Washington Post (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/11/progress_in_iraq_we_still_need.html) titled "Progress In Iraq? We Still Need to Get Out" which sums up what we have done, what we have accomplished and what we can expect from the past 4 years.

The thing that pisses me off the most about debates on whether we continue to occupy or leave is that I am not aware of how fucked up Iraq is. I am, my parents are, my brothers and sisters are and all of the people I interact with are. It isn't a good enough reason to continue on with this War.

from above linkage;


It isn't that Iraqis are just "not used" to democracy, as the naïve and hopeful claim. It is also because Iraq has a history of conflict and is severely divided between Sunni, Shia and Kurd. Large parts of the Shia south are still under the sway of fundamentalists opposed to any kind of secular life. Kurdistan is an independent region in everything but name, with its own rule of law and even its own military and police. Meanwhile, the Sunni west is just holding its breath for America to leave. This is a "nation" where informal mechanisms of governance -- tribes, families, local officials, clergy -- have always been the most powerful (even under Saddam Hussein). The failure to develop a "national" security force, integrating the different religious sects, reflects the enduring schisms in the society.

Meanwhile, the U.S. security guarantee is providing breathing space for a visionless, poorly organized, sectarian government to solidify in Baghdad. No one at the national level is going to "reconcile" and transform until they know America is leaving. And, even then, there could be a civil war of enormous proportions, resulting in division of the country.

Furthermore, the presence of the American occupier remains the strongest stimulus for messianic and jihadi violence. "Al Qaeda in Iraq" might be vanquished. But it's unclear whether it was ever a significant enemy or whether its defeat will spell the violence. The anti-American banner, "al Qaeda," is still very attractive to many. And terrorism is likely to continue in Iraq -- with al Qaeda, Iranian, Syrian and Pakistani support -- as long as the U.S. military occupies the country.

The American people want out of Iraq. And our being there stands in the way of the outcome we are seeking. And so, we should acknowledge the progress. But we should be realistic about what is possible.

[drizl]

its good that people are finally starting to come around in this country. these things take time to build, but i have faith the people will get their act together and make themselves heard. its unfortunate that in this day and age people bought into the idea of bombing iraq in the first place...hopefully we wont be fooled again.