following the money trail to 9-11

[alien autopsy]

daniel pearl was essentially killed by omar saeed sheikh. omar was acting under the authority of the pakistani ISI (intelligence service), reacting to the wall street journal reporter daniel pearls investigation in to the money trail, which was taking him deeper and deeper into pakistan.
After the murder, police were hunting all over pakistan for omar, unkown to them that omar was in fact in custody in ISI headquarters. why was he there? why were the police not notified?
It has since been discovered that omar saeed sheikh worked under general Mahmud Ahmad. 100,000$ enetered the US to pay for 9-11 via mohammad atta direct from general Mahmud Ahmad. since this information has been released, Mahmud Amad has quietly stepped down from his position from pakistani ISI.

Most disturbing of all is that on the morning of 9-11 Mahmud Ahmad was having breakfast with former CIA director Porter Goss, and senator bob graham.

[alien autopsy]

daniel pearl was murdered because he got to close to the truth.

so now we have proof that the money funding 9-11 came directly from the head of pakistan intelligence, who was meeting with a former CIA director and senator the morning of 9-11.

so the next question is, what were they talking about, why were they meeting on that day?? accountability anyone?


"To date the U.S. government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks. Ultimately the question is of little practical significance." -THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT (http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf), p 172.[4]

[QueenAdrock]

so now we have proof that the money funding 9-11 came directly from the head of pakistan intelligence, who was meeting with a former CIA director and senator the morning of 9-11.

I didn't see proof for anything. You haven't provided valid links for anything. Where are you getting this information?

And as for the 9/11 Commission report, I find it odd that conspiracy theorists bash it for just about anything and everything, but then I see it being quoted when it benefits them.

[alien autopsy]

well, the 9-11 commission self admittingly did a terrible job. and its nice to use their own quotes to show how limiting, and narrow minded their investigation really was. they failed to even consider the money trail, which is the most direct and pinpoint way of finding who planned and ordered the attacks.

thats where daniel pearl comes in. not sure if many people remember this guy. theres a really good documentary on him and this guy omar saeed sheikh, that i mentioned above. heres the link (http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/journalistandjihadi/synopsis.html). he was the reporter who was kidnapped by "al qaeda" operatives in pakistan while investigating the money trail. he was being led through a labyrinth of political insiders and religious leaders, and eventually to the terrorists themselves. thats where omar saeed sheikh comes in.

the telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/09/wpearl09.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/09/ixworld.html) reported in august of 2004 that:

Omar Sheikh, the mastermind of the kidnapping, set the trap which lured Pearl to his captors. He put the reporter in touch with a man who, he pretended, would introduce him to an extremist Muslim leader whom Pearl wished to interview.


here's a synopsis of the events leading up, compliments of the SFgate (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/09/DDGI9LK2S01.DTL&type=tvradio):


Pearl was kidnapped in Karachi, Pakistan, on Jan. 23, 2002. He was intent on uncovering the financing source for the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Through an intermediary, he met a man named Bashir who said he could arrange an interview with Sheikh Gillani, a Muslim religious leader who was thought to hold al Qaeda's purse strings. Bashir and Daniel became Internet friends of a sort, with the former inquiring frequently about the health of Pearl's pregnant wife. Finally, Bashir said Pearl would be able to interview Gillani and a meeting was arranged at a Karachi restaurant.


turns out Bashir was really Omar Saeed Sheikh.

heres a BBC Profile on omar. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1804710.stm)

CBS ran this story about the trial and appeal of omar, who is now claiming he is innocent since "alleged 9-11 mastermind" Khalid Sheik mohammad (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/15/guantanamo.mohammed/index.html) has claimed to have actually carried out the physical deed of slitting daniels throat:

“I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl, in the city of Karachi, Pakistan,” Mohammed is quoted as saying in a transcript of a military hearing at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, released by the Pentagon." -msnbc (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17617986/)


(its also worth noting khalid sheik mohammads resume, the other things he has confessed since arriving at guantanamo. these include masterminding 9-11:
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khalid_Sheikh_Mohammed&action=edit&section=16)] List of confessions

All of these plots also can be referred as 'Second Oplan Bojinka'.

The February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City)
A failed "shoe bomber" operation
The October 2002 attack in Kuwait (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait)
The nightclub bombing in Bali, Indonesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia)
A plan for a "second wave" of attacks on major U.S. landmarks to be set in the spring or summer of 2002 after the 9/11 attacks, which includes more hijackings of commercial airlines and having them flown into various buildings in the U.S. including the Library Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_Tower) in Los Angeles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles) , the Sears Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Tower) in Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago), the Plaza Bank building in Seattle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle) and the Empire State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State) Building in New York
Plots to attack oil tankers and U.S. naval ships in the Straits of Hormuz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_Hormuz), the Straits of Gibraltar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_Gibraltar) and in Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore)
A plan to blow up the Panama Canal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal)
Plans to assassinate Jimmy Carter
A plot to blow up suspension bridges in New York City
A plan to destroy the Sears Tower in Chicago with burning fuel trucks
Plans to "destroy" Heathrow Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathrow_Airport), Canary Wharf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Wharf) and Big Ben (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ben) in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London)
A planned attack on "many" nightclubs in Thailand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand)
A plot targeting the New York Stock Exchange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Stock_Exchange) and other U.S. financial targets
A plan to destroy buildings in Eilat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eilat), Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)
Plans to destroy U.S. embassies in Indonesia, Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) and Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) in 2002.
Plots to destroy Israeli embassies in India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India), Azerbaijan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan), the Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) and Australia
Surveying and financing an attack on an Israeli El-Al (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El-Al) flight from Bangkok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok)
Sending several "mujahideen" into Israel to survey "strategic targets" with the intention of attacking them
The November 2002 suicide bombing of a hotel in Mombasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mombasa), Kenya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya)
The failed attempt to shoot down an Israeli passenger jet leaving Mombasa airport in Kenya
Plans to attack U.S. targets in South Korea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea)
Providing financial support for a plan to attack U.S., British and Jewish targets in Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey)
Surveillance of U.S. nuclear power plants in order to attack them
A plot to attack NATO's headquarters in Europe
Planning and surveillance in a 1995 plan (the "Bojinka Operation") to bomb 12 American passenger jets
The planned assassination attempt against then-U.S. President Bill Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton) during a mid-1990s trip to the Philippines.
"Shared responsibility" for a plot to kill Pope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope) John Paul II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_II)
Plans to assassinate Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pervez_Musharraf)
An attempt to attack a U.S. oil company in Sumatra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumatra), Indonesia, "owned by the Jewish former [U.S.] Secretary of State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State) Henry Kissinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger)"
The beheading of Wall Street Journal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Journal) reporter Daniel Pearl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pearl)-wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed#Confession_used_in_Sheikh_O mar.27s_defense)

i get the feeling that this guy is just admitting to shit left and right, he may even be a "fall guy" for omar so that he can get out of his death sentence and "back to work". I say this because Omar is an asset to pakistani intelligence ISI, linked closely to the CIA. more on that below.
also keep in mind that these confessions came from guantanamo too, where they drug and torture captives, whic can lead to all sorts of admitting to things just to get yourself off the waterboard.

anyways, back to OMAR:

Daniel was killed by British-born Islamic militant Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh and three others. Saeed was sentenced to death by hanging and the three other men received life prison terms. and now they are appealing.

here's where it gets interesting....


this is an article right after 9-11 about the initial discovery of the money trail. the media knew where to look, the money trail. the 9-11 comission claims the sources of the money to be unknown and deems the money trail to be of little significance. assholes. heres the CNN article (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/05/inv.terror.investigation/index.html).

heres some quotes from that article:
U.S. investigators now believe Sheik Syed, using the alias Mustafa Muhammad Ahmad, sent more than $100,000 from Pakistan to Mohammed Atta, the suspected hijacking ringleader who piloted one of the jetliners into the World Trade Center.
This source said U.S. investigators now believe Sheik Syed, using the alias Mustafa Muhammad Ahmad, sent more than $100,000 from Pakistan to Mohammed Atta, the suspected hijacking ringleader who piloted one of the jetliners into the World Trade Center.
Investigators said Atta then distributed the funds to conspirators in Florida in the weeks before the deadliest act of terrorism on U.S. soil that destroyed the World Trade Center, heavily damaged the Pentagon and left thousands dead.
In addition, sources have said Atta sent thousands of dollars -- believed to be excess funds from the operation -- back to Syed in the United Arab Emirates in the days before September 11.
Syed also is described as a key figure in the funding operation of al Qaeda, the network headed by suspected terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden.

*note the spelling of "syed" just as fox calles osama, usama.
Syed was educated at the London School of Economics and has experience in international money transfers. Indian intelligence officials said the last time they spotted him was six months ago at a bookstore in Islamabad, Pakistan
(its the same omar saeed sheikh)

So, now we have established the connection from omar-9-11, and its then understandable that daniel was on to something that omar didnt want him to figure out. so, what was that exactly?


Heres more about Omar saeed sheikh and his relationship with the ISI:

First, you have to understand the historic role of the CIA backing Pakistan, literally creating their ISI intelligence agency in the 70's to fight the soviets in Afghanistan. The ISI used the taliban and created al qaeda as well as many other undergound terrorist networks to successfully defeat the russians and cause their withdraw from afghanistan.
Pakistan continues to recieve close to 1 billion dollars each year from the Us government for its "fighting of terrorism". (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/world/asia/20pakistan.html?hp)

it is widely agreed that bin laden and many of the taliban and al qaeda leaders who escaped the failed invasion into afghanistan after the WTC attacks, are hiding in pakistan. nice work fighting terror pakistan! and further, from the council on foreign relations (http://www.cfr.org/publication/9514/#1)(cfr) website, here is this:

experts say that Pakistan’s military and Interservices Intelligence (ISI) both include personnel who sympathize with—or even assist—Islamist militants. ISI has provided covert but well-documented support to terrorist groups active in Kashmir, including the al-Qaeda (http://www.cfr.org/publication/9126/alqaeda.html) affiliate Jaish-e-Mohammed, which investigators linked to the December 2001 attack on the Indian parliament and the February 2002 murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. President Pervez Musharraf made promises to stop Kashmiri militants from crossing into the Indian-held sector of Kashmir, but India insists Musharraf has yet to stop the terrorists’ movements.


Omar was a member of several different ISI sponsored groups, most notably, Harkat Ul-Ansar or Harkat Ul-Mujahedeen after Harkat ul-Ansar is named a terrorist organization by the US State Department. NYtimes (http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/02/25bow04.htm) confirms this in this article.
why oh why, as reported by the LATimes (http://web.archive.org/web/20030621154310/http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-020902sheikh,0,541735.story) would the Pakistani ISI have paid for Omar's lawyer when he was busted hijacking an indian airline and kidnapping 3 british nationals???

and then there is this, out of a Guardian article titled Underworld where terror and security meet (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4462107,00.html) :
At the time, the agency was backing the Taliban in Afghanistan and directing militant groups in Kashmir. Several sources in the police have confirmed that Sheikh was well-known to senior ISI officers. For two years he travelled regularly to training camps in Afghanistan and undertook missions in Kashmir.
He was known to be in touch with Ijaz Shah, the Lahore-based home secretary of the Punjab and a former ISI officer in charge of handling two militant groups. His contacts also reportedly included Lieutenant-General Mohammad Aziz Khan, a Kashmir-born former deputy chief of the ISI.



interestingly, pakistani president pervez mushareef recently wrote a book and in it spoke a little of omar saeed sheikh, stating:

Pakistani intelligence chiefs are also concerned that General Musharraf may jeopardise their relationship with British intelligence agencies after claiming that a convicted terrorist was once an informer for British agency MI6.
The President outlines the role played by a former London public schoolboy, Omar Sheikh, in the kidnap and murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in February 2002.
General Musharraf says Sheikh, who orchestrated the abduction, was recruited by MI6 while he was studying at the London School of Economics and sent to the Balkans to take part in jihad operations there.
He alleges that Sheikh later double-crossed British intelligence. "At some point, he probably became a rogue or double agent," General Musharraf says.

trying to distance himself from omar saeed sheikh???

Okay, and now, is proof that the ISI long supported Omar's own terrorist ring, Harkat ul-Ansar. This is a copy of the CIA Report (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/10.pdf) which declares:
the Pakistani ISI is giving at least $30,000 - and possibly as much as $60,000 - per month to the Harkat ul-Ansar

this Department of State (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/16.pdf) report shows ties between the Harkat Ul-Mujahedeen (or Harkat Ul-Ansar), the taliban, and al qaeda.

We know of the historical relationship of the taliban and al qaeda and the Pakistani ISI. With this, there is proof of the continuing support of these "terrorist organizations", right up until 9-11, from pakistan ISI, and you can trace many of those dollars back to the CIA which gives almost 1 billion (>999 million) dollars to pakistan each year to "fight terrorism". Not infering the CIA did 9-11, but, that their money was involved.

hmmm.

A Department of State report (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/04/30/terrorism.state.dept/), communicated via CNN, says the following, 7 months before 9-11:

“Pakistan increased its support to the Taliban and continued its support to militant groups active in Indian-held Kashmir, such as the Harkat ul-Mujahedeen (HUM), some of which engaged in terrorism.… Credible reporting indicates that Pakistan is providing the Taliban with materiel, fuel, funding, technical assistance, and military advisers. Pakistan has not prevented large numbers of Pakistani nationals from moving into Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban. [Pakistan] also failed to take effective steps to curb the activities of certain madrassas, or religious schools, that serve as recruiting grounds for terrorism.”

However, despite this criticism and a further critique that Afghanistan has been the “primary hub” for militants “involved in most major terrorist plots or attacks against the United States in the past 15 years and now engaged in international militant and terrorist acts around the world, neither pak or afgh are placed on terrorist supporting countries.





On the 9th of October, 2001, Times of Inda (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1454238160.cms)reported:
new delhi: while the pakistani inter services public relations claimed that former isi director-general lt-gen mahmud ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on monday, the truth is more shocking. top sources confirmed here on tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" india produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the world trade centre. the us authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to wtc hijacker mohammed atta from pakistan by ahmad umar sheikh at the instance of gen mahumd. senior government sources have confirmed that india contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed isi chief. while they did not provide details, they said that indian inputs, including sheikh’s mobile phone number, helped the fbi in tracing and establishing the link. a direct link between the isi and the wtc attack could have enormous repercussions.

there you go!


daniel pearl died investigating this money trail. he was getting too close. omar saeed sheikh was involved in his murder and kidnapping, but not before wiring money to hijacker muhammad atta at the behest of general mahmood ahmed, the then chief of pakistani intelligence, who just so happened to be eating breakfest with ex-CIA director Porter Goss, and senator Bob Graham.

[alien autopsy]

(he was eating breakfast with goss and graham, in washignton DC on the morning on 9-11!)

okay, maybe all of that is a little cluttering and confusing. i found all of this after watching press for truth, then reading an article a few weeks later. since then, i have been interested and investigating on my own, and im convinced its all very much real, and documentable. press for change and the article both did a good enough job at explaining this, in a much simpler way, however i felt i needed to dig a little deeper to really understand it.


you can find all of this by google searches. you find one name, then you search the hell out of it, and dig for the reputable documentable sources. you'll notice i only used large media outlets, none of which are small-scale independent, but all have a reputation and if they are not media related, they are actualy government reports or publications. what i provided here doesnt even account for "ABLE DANGER" and other CIA and FBI investigations that were destroyed relating to 9-11 in the months and years prior. some very suspicious and damning info there as well.

in my opinion, the best case, pain minimizing scenario is that the upper echelons of our government (dems and reps) are involved in protecting the real perpetrators, or at least those connected to the real perpetrators. why else would we consider pakistan a "close ally to the US in the war on terror"? at worst, there is collusion and perhaps even direct involvement in setting this whole thing up, someone gave the orders to use a few hundred thousand dollars to pay these hijackers to do this. it is obvious that the money came from pakistan ISI, why then was the chief of Pakistani ISI in washington talking with our government on 9-11, and why are we still funding pakistan and not going after their terrorist groups (which are funded in part by pakistani ISI).

its a twisted game the us and pakistan are playing. and we are all involved.

i'll try and find/post that article that lays it all out a little less cluttered.

[Carlos]

(y)

problem is most people are far too lazy to do that, they want everything provided on a plate..

just wish those who are so thorough when it comes to wanting to know our sources of reference, would exercise the same sceptism/thorough investigative analysis of sources in relation to the official conspiracy theory: the 911 comission does not provide footnotes or references!

Queen, if you really are intersted, please follow these links, and do some research.. there is a clear money trail. which the 911 commission in it's geniousness said wasn't important: cos they couldn't find any that lead to Al Quaeda: in other words because it pointed elsewhere; to an 'ally's' intelligence service, it just doesn't matter.

People like alienautopsy, and myself that have watched the documentaries, are not satisfied with being 'told' what is what, we then go and spend (hours/days) researching the relevatnt material (from both 'sides')... unlike many on this board who fervently argue a certain postition, despite being blatently ignorant not only of the official 'story' but of the main criticism of it.

I am not saying this as some kinda big-up self loving, but because people should seriously ask themselves, have I given this the attention it deserves, have I familiarised myself with all the main criticisms, do I have a basic grasp of physics (and the inherent contradictions with basic physics espoused by the official narrative).... if the answer to any of these is no; then either go get reading (books as well as net), or accept that you really don't care: and are happy with being fed so called information from the 'established' media..... it was a really simple decission for me, but hey.

[Schmeltz]

The problem lies in how you use your research to form your conclusions. You may have spent many days reading material connected to September 11th, but it has not prompted you to think rationally enough about the events, or at least that is how your perspective seems to me. Why was the head of Pakistan's ISI meeting with American officials on 9/11? Because governmental department heads routinely meet like that, all the time, every day. The ISI's ties to the Taliban, who sheltered Osama bin Laden, go back decades, as does the unique relationship of the ISI to the rest of the Pakistani political and military establishment.

Why are they called "allies" by the Bushies? Because the Bushies need allies, unsavoury though they may be. It might be worthwhile to note that the ISI has undergone numerous changes in its leadership since 9/11; Mahmoud Ahmad didn't even last a month as Pervez Musharraf reigned the agency in under pressure from his newly intrigued American sponsors.

I mean, I know these things too. But the conclusions I draw from them remain rooted in reality and in the appreciation of context, while your own, and those of the conspiracy truthers in general, give rise to nothing more than wild speculation and flights of fancy. It is important to understand momentous and transformative events as fully and profoundly as possible, but the reams of imaginative and fanciful material propounded by what seems to be an inordinately misrepresentative sample of internet users do not constitute any such true effort.

Christ, this keeps sucking me back in. No more for reals.

[alien autopsy]

i think its funny that many here repeatedly argue that "9-11 conspiracy theorists" use and manipulate information to fit their own agendas, and are totally oblivious to reality.
is that not what schmeltz and yeahwho do everytime you try to enter into a discussion with them?

face up to the facts! they are staring you right in the face! you can google any of these links, and find many many more official news stories to back up the cited material!

i spent hours sifting through different sources and only chose the ones i deemed credible.

and they spell it out, i DIRECTLY quoted them. check it out, really, look at it with your own eyes before your judgement gets the best of you.

[alien autopsy]

the worst cases of ignorance are made by those who think they know everything, and then shape their reality based on a strict and suffocating opinion that they know it all. they dont need to question.

they dont need to see things from the other side! I have seen both sides! i used to be of your opinion! but then i opened my eyes to the possibilities that it was more complex, and not so simple.

you can only be wise and knowing if you excersize your ability to reason. which you are failing big time. not because you dont see things my way, thats your thinking, but because you dont see things from anyother way at all. theres you, your opinion, and then all else follows.

in reality, you, all else and your opinion are one. you have to loosen your tie a little! you are constrained by your own reason!

[Carlos]

look who jumping to conclusions.... lol

the issue is not that we are pescribing a conspiracy theory, merely questioning the actual conspiracy theory!! the irony is quite staggering... smeltz you are the conspiracy theorist as you accept that arab hijackers carried out 911..

whereas alien and myself are merely showing that conspiracy theory to be a myth. If you can find a post where I have pescribed what exactly happened and who did it, then I'll eat my words... maybe a long time ago. But there is no need to pescribe another CT, merely show how the established one cannot be true based on numerous facts, and empirical data, and basic physics.

So the point is not who sent the money (even thogh it is vital), the point is that the 911 comission chose to ignore it!!!!! and the fact that you have no problem with that, but are more inclined to berate us for questioning this says everything!

Aliens last post is so spot on, and carries on from my comments about you being blindingly (both outwardly and inwardly) arrogant and egotistical about reality.
you limit your rationality time and time again, with an irrational a prior assumption as to what is and isn't 'possible'.. it's almost amusing, but slightly sadening too.
You would rather assume we make bad conclusions, even when you admittedly are completely naive of the body of evidence, and data we have looked at... than spend any time doing some research yourself.

[alien autopsy]

queen im sticking it back up to the top so you can read it! lest we forget!

[DroppinScience]

I think I've mentioned this to drizl earlier, but with conspiracy theorists, I'm not inclined to believe a single word you say (especially if it's anonymously on a random message board), no matter how provocative the claim. You know why that is? It's a credibility issue. When someone passes along information, in order to believe it, you have to consider the source to be trustworthy and reliable. You guys are about the furthest thing from reliable and more or less talk only to each other indulging your own paranoid, delusional fantasies.

You guys may be 100% right on 9/11. But you're like the boy who cried wolf, so nobody will listen.

[Burnout18]

After the murder, police were hunting all over pakistan for omar, unkown to them that omar was in fact in custody in ISI headquarters. why was he there? why were the police not notified?


Ok not for nothing, but even here in new york city, there is a lack of communication between federal run agencies and local police, so i almost comprehend why the police were not notified.

I am not trying to be critical, but why would you quote wikipedia, when you could have quoted the BBC article that would have listed the same exact confessions? When I see wikipedia a red flag goes up that something might not be true, cause hell, for a long time wikipedia showed teenage mutant ninja turtles as the acadamy award winner for best picture in 1991.

[alien autopsy]

droppin, obviously you did not read a shred of that peice i wrote. its all completely linked and directly quoted from major media sources.
there is one or two uses for wikipedia, only showing general "bio's" for omar and khalid, because i figured it would be the most thorough for general information about their character. i agree though, wiki is almost never a good source.

but, i really dont think there is much else i can do for this one too, unless there are specifics you have question about. i can go further and show you more of what is totally available. george mcgovern once said that about 80% of all the evidence you need is open source material, its just buried. i love finding it, so pick a point and quiz me:)



burnout- the ISI connection runs a lot deeper. check out the prior info i cited. once you udnerstand that depth and history of omars relatioship to the ISI, the whole situation becomes a lot clearer. he could have just been picked up by ISI and the police not notified. but based on history, its likely that they had a very good reason to pick him up quietly.

[alien autopsy]

and dont bother grouping me with conspiracy theorists, or "you guys". i really take pride in my research, and search long and hard to bring the facts. im not a petty chain in the link of the big conspiracy telephone game. i try my best to bring the truth.

[yeahwho]

I think I've mentioned this to drizl earlier, but with conspiracy theorists, I'm not inclined to believe a single word you say (especially if it's anonymously on a random message board), no matter how provocative the claim. You know why that is? It's a credibility issue. When someone passes along information, in order to believe it, you have to consider the source to be trustworthy and reliable. You guys are about the furthest thing from reliable and more or less talk only to each other indulging your own paranoid, delusional fantasies.

You guys may be 100% right on 9/11. But you're like the boy who cried wolf, so nobody will listen.

I don't think I could of said this better, the conspiracy theorists on this site are full of bullshit. I'm done talking or posting in these fucked up creepy threads. The 9/11 attack killed 2,973 people, including Americans and foreign nationals but excluding the terrorists. 3987 US soldiers have died in Iraq. 82,078 – 89,573 people have died due to the Iraqi war.

If your going to try and make sense of all this by a conspiracy OK, count me out. It's really happening and I'm much more interested in stopping it. Fuck your half baked bullshit distractions.

[Carlos]

......the conspiracy theorists on this site are full of bullshit. I'm done talking or posting in these fucked up creepy threads. The 9/11 attack killed 2,973 people, including Americans and foreign nationals...

So (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRnwRxXJw6M) are (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXp2eHGnbI) ALLthese (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtDYuQw3P98) people (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcLzBCTkvbg) full (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbwdLZo-eew) of (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEunHLLoj2w) bullshit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaFM1eR6fF8) too?

yeahwho you say we are full of bullshit - but time and time again you refuse to enter into details, or if you do, once shown them to be unfounded ignore it, and move onto the next thing: go back and READ the willy thread, you leave it and move on when you have nothing to back up your arguments, over and over and over... just cos we don't roll-over and accept your debunked data... but I'm sure you feel the same way bout us.. :p

I feel like a parot, as you still can't seem to grasp this extrmely basic premiss. The offiical narrative/story is a conspiracy theory. It is clear that (and this is as far as pescribing who or what did it, as I will go) 911 could not have been carried out by 1 person. Therefore by definition whatever did happen was a conspiracy!!

therefore the only meaningful discussion is not of conspiracy theorists in some nebulous and emotive way. But to analise the facts, and empirical data.

Which is exactly what alien and myself are sticking to - and are coming up against a wall of irrationality, and willful ignorance: even when given perfectly sound links, and sources you try and find any hole (even if just it doesn't exist) to sooth your belief... you'd rather doubt reality, than change your reality.

Not one of you - even yeahwho, are willing to defend those beliefs... surely this speaks volumes.. Your all so convinced by your own ego's that you couldn't have been duped, or maybe you just have too much faith in your established media outlets. But at least be prepared to defend them with data, and facts!! Rather than constantly falling back on lame insults, and labelling.

I'll ask it once more, just in case any of you are prepared to put your money where you extremly vocal mouth is:

What evidence have you personally read/see/researched that would prove the official conspiracy thoery to be ture?


Or failing that... riddle me this: as these are the nails in the coffin of the official narative.

1. How could molten steel/iron be found under the pile of all 3 towers, when a hyrdocarbon fire cannot get hot enough to melt steel: even NIST and pop mechanics admit (it's actually one of their lame attempts at debunking) that jet fueled hydrocarbon fire cannot reach anywhere near the 3000+ degrees you need (i.e blast furnace temps)
In physics if data contradicts a theory it must be discarded, and another mechanism found to produce that data. It is really that simple!!- we can be sure that there was molten metal from the dozens of testimonies (on video) from clean up workers, and even the the head of clean up at Control Demolition. And then NIST lying on camera that there was no such thing!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJ_1-qMujE)

2. If, as NIST now claim the mechanism for collapse was the weight of the uppres floors collapsing onto the floors below (piledriver effect): not only does this contradict the law of conservation of momentum, but visual data contradicts this?
Visual presentation: (http://www.911blogger.com/node/9154/print)
Science behind it: (http://www.journalof911studies.com/articles/Journal_5_PTransferRoss.pdf)

3. Why did Cheney do nothing to stop flight 93 hit the pentagon: we have video testimony to the 911 comission from Minetta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y) showing that Cheney was warned when the flight was 50, 30 miles, and at 10 miles out: when the main coming in to warn Dick asked "does the order still stand.." to which Cheney barks back ... "have you heard otherwise?"

- at the very least we can ask why did cheney not evacuate the building, and therefore save over 100 lives.
- but we can also wonder as to what the 'order' was..
- but also this testimony contradicts the 911 comission and Cheney's public statements about what time he arrived in the bunker.. and therefore sheds light on just another blatent lie they weaved.


just from these 3 things we can sumisze that the official narrative is in no way the truth.. and that we deserve answers: what mechanism created the molten metal.
How did a large section of the upper part of the tower disintegrate before even starting a downwards path?
Why didn't cheney warn, and evacuate the building, or activate the advanced defences the pentagon must possess. If they mount SAMs on Bush holidays home just for a week, they gonna have some pretty tight defence systems in washington!

[alien autopsy]

im really dissapointed in a lot of you here. i figured the bboys crowd to be a little more open minded and fair to ideas...apparently its not.

the only thing i have done is bring forward real sources with factual, documented information, and i know yeahwho at least read this thread, but droppin, you didnt even read it and you put your brakes on before even reviewing what is included, what is cited, and directly quoted.

you guys have your blinders on. its really strange how people have come to take 9-11 so personally and are so defensive in their theories. be it conspiracy theories or NIST, 9-11 Commission theories. its like the evidence doesnt even matter, its just about trying to justify your belief system, and perhaps ultimately, what you fear.

and it never helps to start personally attacking. that obstructs the whole understanding and "finding a common ground" processes that open dialogue to discuss and sift through the truth. there is so much disinfo and spin/slant media out there....its necessary to share opinions and discuss information to come to meaningful conclusions and move forward as a society.

that is why corruption exists and is allowed to happen in this country. that is why the sad state of american political affairs continues to rage on in the world, killing for corporate power and global domination. its so sad, and it comes down to each individual and their willingness to understand and accept the truth. im not saying 9-11 theories are the truth. what im saying is you hold on to your preconceived ideas so tightly, that you fail to recognize truth, and change, even when it stares you in the face.

[Burnout18]

burnout- the ISI connection runs a lot deeper. check out the prior info i cited. once you udnerstand that depth and history of omars relatioship to the ISI, the whole situation becomes a lot clearer. he could have just been picked up by ISI and the police not notified. but based on history, its likely that they had a very good reason to pick him up quietly.

the prior info in this thread or the other thread you started?

[alien autopsy]

the prior info on this thread...i'll cut and paste the relevant section.





Heres more about Omar saeed sheikh and his relationship with the ISI:

First, you have to understand the historic role of the CIA backing Pakistan, literally creating their ISI intelligence agency in the 70's to fight the soviets in Afghanistan. The ISI used the taliban and created al qaeda as well as many other undergound terrorist networks to successfully defeat the russians and cause their withdraw from afghanistan.
Pakistan continues to recieve close to 1 billion dollars each year from the Us government for its "fighting of terrorism". (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/world/asia/20pakistan.html?hp)

it is widely agreed that bin laden and many of the taliban and al qaeda leaders who escaped the failed invasion into afghanistan after the WTC attacks, are hiding in pakistan. nice work fighting terror pakistan! and further, from the council on foreign relations (http://www.cfr.org/publication/9514/#1)(cfr) website, here is this:


Quote:
experts say that Pakistan’s military and Interservices Intelligence (ISI) both include personnel who sympathize with—or even assist—Islamist militants. ISI has provided covert but well-documented support to terrorist groups active in Kashmir, including the al-Qaeda (http://www.cfr.org/publication/9126/alqaeda.html) affiliate Jaish-e-Mohammed, which investigators linked to the December 2001 attack on the Indian parliament and the February 2002 murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. President Pervez Musharraf made promises to stop Kashmiri militants from crossing into the Indian-held sector of Kashmir, but India insists Musharraf has yet to stop the terrorists’ movements.
Omar was a member of several different ISI sponsored groups, most notably, Harkat Ul-Ansar or Harkat Ul-Mujahedeen after Harkat ul-Ansar is named a terrorist organization by the US State Department. NYtimes (http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/02/25bow04.htm) confirms this in this article.
why oh why, as reported by the LATimes (http://web.archive.org/web/20030621154310/http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-020902sheikh,0,541735.story) would the Pakistani ISI have paid for Omar's lawyer when he was busted hijacking an indian airline and kidnapping 3 british nationals???

and then there is this, out of a Guardian article titled Underworld where terror and security meet (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4462107,00.html) :

Quote:
At the time, the agency was backing the Taliban in Afghanistan and directing militant groups in Kashmir. Several sources in the police have confirmed that Sheikh was well-known to senior ISI officers. For two years he travelled regularly to training camps in Afghanistan and undertook missions in Kashmir.
He was known to be in touch with Ijaz Shah, the Lahore-based home secretary of the Punjab and a former ISI officer in charge of handling two militant groups. His contacts also reportedly included Lieutenant-General Mohammad Aziz Khan, a Kashmir-born former deputy chief of the ISI.

interestingly, pakistani president pervez mushareef recently wrote a book and in it spoke a little of omar saeed sheikh, stating:

Quote:
Pakistani intelligence chiefs are also concerned that General Musharraf may jeopardise their relationship with British intelligence agencies after claiming that a convicted terrorist was once an informer for British agency MI6.
The President outlines the role played by a former London public schoolboy, Omar Sheikh, in the kidnap and murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in February 2002.
General Musharraf says Sheikh, who orchestrated the abduction, was recruited by MI6 while he was studying at the London School of Economics and sent to the Balkans to take part in jihad operations there.
He alleges that Sheikh later double-crossed British intelligence. "At some point, he probably became a rogue or double agent," General Musharraf says.
trying to distance himself from omar saeed sheikh???

Okay, and now, is proof that the ISI long supported Omar's own terrorist ring, Harkat ul-Ansar. This is a copy of the CIA Report (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/10.pdf) which declares:

Quote:
the Pakistani ISI is giving at least $30,000 - and possibly as much as $60,000 - per month to the Harkat ul-Ansar
this Department of State (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/16.pdf) report shows ties between the Harkat Ul-Mujahedeen (or Harkat Ul-Ansar), the taliban, and al qaeda.

We know of the historical relationship of the taliban and al qaeda and the Pakistani ISI. With this, there is proof of the continuing support of these "terrorist organizations", right up until 9-11, from pakistan ISI, and you can trace many of those dollars back to the CIA which gives almost 1 billion (>999 million) dollars to pakistan each year to "fight terrorism". Not infering the CIA did 9-11, but, that their money was involved.

hmmm.

A Department of State report (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/04/30/terrorism.state.dept/), communicated via CNN, says the following, 7 months before 9-11:


Quote:
“Pakistan increased its support to the Taliban and continued its support to militant groups active in Indian-held Kashmir, such as the Harkat ul-Mujahedeen (HUM), some of which engaged in terrorism.… Credible reporting indicates that Pakistan is providing the Taliban with materiel, fuel, funding, technical assistance, and military advisers. Pakistan has not prevented large numbers of Pakistani nationals from moving into Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban. [Pakistan] also failed to take effective steps to curb the activities of certain madrassas, or religious schools, that serve as recruiting grounds for terrorism.”
However, despite this criticism and a further critique that Afghanistan has been the “primary hub” for militants “involved in most major terrorist plots or attacks against the United States in the past 15 years and now engaged in international militant and terrorist acts around the world, neither pak or afgh are placed on terrorist supporting countries.





On the 9th of October, 2001, Times of Inda (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1454238160.cms)reported:

Quote:
new delhi: while the pakistani inter services public relations claimed that former isi director-general lt-gen mahmud ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on monday, the truth is more shocking. top sources confirmed here on tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" india produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the world trade centre. the us authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to wtc hijacker mohammed atta from pakistan by ahmad umar sheikh at the instance of gen mahumd. senior government sources have confirmed that india contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed isi chief. while they did not provide details, they said that indian inputs, including sheikh’s mobile phone number, helped the fbi in tracing and establishing the link. a direct link between the isi and the wtc attack could have enormous repercussions.

[Burnout18]

oh sorry im trying to read the whole thing, things are starting to blur together

[alien autopsy]

yeah...sorry. didnt go through and edit, or re-organize. just kind of followed a linear path in finding and presenting evidence. i think that it makes sense though. if you have any questions, id be happy to explain. this is so fundamental in understanding who carried out the attacks, that id go to the end of the earth to bring this information to people.

note, there are many back-up mainstream media sources on this too. i can link them here. for example, the Times of India article last quoted was also in the oftentimes it was published in the NYT, the LA times, BBC etc... alot of it was headline news at one time or another. a lot of it was backpage news in the major newspapers as well....its about putting it all together. let me know if i can be more help

[Burnout18]

yeah...sorry. didnt go through and edit, or re-organize. just kind of followed a linear path in finding and presenting evidence. i think that it makes sense though. if you have any questions, id be happy to explain. this is so fundamental in understanding who carried out the attacks, that id go to the end of the earth to bring this information to people.

yea i can tell, but droppinscience had a point,,, you know this is the internet, a message board even.

Why don't you just sit down and write a book.

[alien autopsy]

CNN says, “Suspected hijacker Mohamed Atta received wire transfers via Pakistan and then distributed the cash via money orders bought here in Florida. A senior law enforcement source tells CNN, the man sending the money to Atta is believed to be Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh.” [CNN, 10/6/2001 (http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/05/inv.terror.investigation/); CNN, 10/7/2001 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0110/07/sm.13.html); CNN, 10/8/2001 (http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/10/08/india.ressa/)]

[alien autopsy]

ISI Director Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed is replaced in the face of US pressure after links are discovered between him, Saeed Sheikh, and the funding of the 9/11 attacks. Mahmood instructed Saeed to transfer $100,000 into hijacker Mohamed Atta’s bank account prior to 9/11. This is according to Indian intelligence, which claims the FBI has privately confirmed the story. [Press Trust of India, 10/8/2001; Times of India, 10/9/2001 (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?xml=0&art_id=1454238160); India Today, 10/15/2001; Daily Excelsior (Jammu), 10/18/2001 (http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/01oct18/news.htm#7)] The story is not widely reported in Western countries, though it makes the Wall Street Journal. [Australian, 10/10/2001; Agence France-Presse, 10/10/2001; Wall Street Journal, 10/10/2001] It is reported in Pakistan as well. [Dawn (Karachi), 10/8/2001] The Northern Alliance also repeats the claim in late October. [Federal News Service, 10/31/2001] In Western countries, the usual explanation is that Mahmood is fired for being too close to the Taliban. [London Times, 10/9/2001; Guardian, 10/9/2001 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,566017,00.html)] The Times of India reports that Indian intelligence helped the FBI discover the link, and says, “A direct link between the ISI and the WTC attack could have enormous repercussions. The US cannot but suspect whether or not there were other senior Pakistani Army commanders who were in the know of things. Evidence of a larger conspiracy could shake US confidence in Pakistan’s ability to participate in the anti-terrorism coalition.” [Times of India, 10/9/2001 (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?xml=0&art_id=1454238160)] There is evidence some ISI officers may have known of a plan to destroy the WTC as early as July 1999. Two other ISI leaders, Lt. Gen. Mohammed Aziz Khan and Lt. Gen. Muzaffar Usmani, are sidelined on the same day as Mahmood (see October 8, 2001 (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&the_isi:_a_more_detailed_look=mahmoodAhmed#a100801 mahmoodreplaced)). [Fox News, 10/8/2001 (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,35977,00.html)] Saeed had been working under Khan. The firings are said to have purged the ISI of its fundamentalists. However, according to one diplomat, “To remove the top two or three doesn’t matter at all. The philosophy remains.… [The ISI is] a parallel government of its own. If you go through the officer list, almost all of the ISI regulars would say, of the Taliban, ‘They are my boys.’” [New Yorker, 10/29/2001] It is believed Mahmood has been living under virtual house arrest in Pakistan (which would seem to imply more than just a difference of opinion over the Taliban), but no charges have been brought against him, and there is no evidence the US has asked to question him. [Asia Times, 1/5/2002 (http://www.atimes.com/ind-pak/DA05Df02.html)] He also has refused to speak to reporters since being fired [Associated Press, 2/21/2002] , and outside India and Pakistan, the story has only been mentioned infrequently in the media since. [Sunday Herald (Glasgow), 2/24/2002; London Times, 4/21/2002] He will reemerge as a businessman in 2003, but still will not speak to the media

[alien autopsy]

some of those links didnt go through...hmm. you can google them, just copy and past the publication and the date, and add pakistan or 9-11 to the search title.

also can be found with other really well put together and well documented info at the complete 9-11 timeline (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project). this is a brilliant project, putting the peices together in an easy readable, thoroughly cited mainstream-media-only outlet...