the official attack obama thread

[alien autopsy]

oh i can smell the fury of the fanatics already...


seriously though. hes a wimp. hes a chump. hes not going to "change america". and he's just going to keep the bullshit truckin along in the good ol us of a. viva america. viva obama. yay.

im sick of presidents. they all say one thing, then fall through on all their promises. im sick of hearing about what i am supposed to believe americas problems are. sick of hearing what is "important" to america, who our allies are, and who we need to wage war against next.

its all fucking bullshit. and its all ridiculous. fuck the man.

im not sure i am going to vote at all in this election. its all overrated and irrelevant. especially since the last two elections have been thrown.

democracy? LO fucking L.

[Bob]

my god..........you're right. i apologize for doubting you all this time, i see it now

[RobMoney$]

Man, I wish Qdrop was still around.

[DroppinScience]

Though there is a lot that is fucked up in the political system in America, you're choosing to completely disengage won't help matters either.

Compared to what's come before, someone like Obama will most certainly do more good than harm. After Bush, how much lower can you go?

[funk63]

obamas a pussy ass faggot

[D_Raay]

I always find it amusing when someone definitively states how a candidate will handle his job before he even gets into that job.

Sounds like someone is a bit jaded, and I can't blame you one bit. After 16 years of Clinton/Bush anyone would be jaded.

[The Notorious LOL]

cool. Provide a viable alternative then.

[The Notorious LOL]

and dont say socialism. I said a viable alternative.

[QueenAdrock]

Attack Obama, eh?

I HEAR HE'S BLACK, AND ANGRY AT WHITE PEOPLE, AND HE WANTS TO KILL ALL WHITE PEOPLE LIKE HIS PASTOR DOES. HE HATES AMERICA BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WEAR A LAPEL PIN AND I HEAR HE HAS AN ILLIGEITAMEATE BLACK BABY AND HE ALSO HAS A MIDDLE NAME OF BIN LADEN AND HE LOVES TERRORISTS AND ALSO, HE'S FOREIGN SO I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY HE'S GOING FOR THE PRESIDENSY IN THE FIRST PLACE IF HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO BE SWORN-IN. PLUS, HE HAD A GAY AFFAIR WHEN HIS WIFE WAS OUT OF TOWN WITH SOME DUDE I SAW ON YOUTUBE AND THEY SMOKED CRACK IN THE BACKSEAT OF A LIMO AND THEN HE SUCKED ON OBAMA'S PENIS FOR A WHILE. VOTE RON PAUL!!!!!!!1!!

I think that sums up all the non-issues people "care" about.

[afronaut]

Your heart seems to be in the right place, but you seem to be a little misguided. Politically, you remind me of a less balanced me at 15. My heart was in the right place, but I was misguided.

You're in love with hating politicians and the system. You still have that initial infatuation, like you've just realized the concept that everything is corrupt, and you're on your honeymoon with that concept. I was the same way.

Which isn't to say that I disagree with you on that core idea - that basically everyone in power is probably corrupt - it's just that, yeah, we all get it, we all realized this forever ago. Pretty soon you'll realize, like we all did, that proclaiming yourself against the system and supporting anything that appears slightly against the system (especially off the wall anti-government conspiracies) is empty and doesn't really accomplish anything.

There will be no revolution. Everyone is either too complacent or too disconnected with reality. There needs to be a lot of work done before idealism alone can make a change. We need to understand and form a relationship with the system, and manipulate it for the better.

We all know Obama isn't some godsend. We all know he probably lies, and is probably corrupt. It would be great to just boycott our democratic system because of this, like you seem to be in support of, but that isn't going to change anything. At this point, we have to use this dysfunctional "democratic" system we have. First we must wrestle the power from the republicans, neo-conservatives, and the religious right. Next, we must do more to make third parties more viable, and eventually wrestle power from the two party system, and put an end to the Republican-Democrat monopoly over politics and policy. It's a long fight, and we can't just say we're against the system and that be enough. We have to use the existing system as a platform to climb up and change things; we're still asshole deep in the system. We have to slowly dig our way out of it's grip before we can out and out fight it.

So right now, I'm all for Obama.

[Bob]

democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried

[D_Raay]

democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried

http://www.visionofhumanity.com/rankings/

Norway is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system of government.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Egalitarianism is a philosophy of considerable variety or diversity in the many ways it has been applied in society. Common forms of egalitarianism include economic egalitarianism (also known as material egalitarianism), moral egalitarianism, legal egalitarianism, luck egalitarianism, political egalitarianism, gender egalitarianism, racial equality, opportunity egalitarianism, and Christian egalitarianism.

[alien autopsy]

what about every single revolution that has happened before in history? how can you say that revolutions arent possible?



politics is set up to fail. all things run in cycles, and the time will come when america will fall in its own ashes. we are just beginning our death as a country. our morals are all but gone, our economies are falling, our politicians and media are out of control, we are overextended globally, involved in intimidation and conflict across the world. we are excessive. just like every other empire that was about to fall before they actually did.

we are beginning to worship violence like the romans did, just before they fell. we are losing control.



but....THERE IS A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE!! yay! reorganize and resettle! redevelop and rekindle! that is, as far away from the system as we can get. the old tune in, turn on and drop out:) but only this time, its not about the philosophy of doing so, its about the living.


we need to give up on the system, give up on waiting, and take control of our own lives. that means sustainability. that means working together....cooperation rather than competition. redefining our goals, rediscovering our capabilities.

you all think im crazy:) hehe

[Bob]

http://www.visionofhumanity.com/rankings/

Norway is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system of government.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/



parliamentary systems aren't democratic?

Egalitarianism is a philosophy of considerable variety or diversity in the many ways it has been applied in society. Common forms of egalitarianism include economic egalitarianism (also known as material egalitarianism), moral egalitarianism, legal egalitarianism, luck egalitarianism, political egalitarianism, gender egalitarianism, racial equality, opportunity egalitarianism, and Christian egalitarianism.

where has that been successfully implemented?

[D_Raay]

parliamentary systems aren't democratic?
I was thinking rather of our specific system of government as opposed to Norway's.


where has that been successfully implemented?
Iceland which currently ranks as Number 1 in the HDI rankings.

[Bob]

Iceland which currently ranks as Number 1 in the HDI rankings.

i guess i'm a little ignorant about iceland, but don't they have a democratic form of government? with a president and a prime minister and political parties and elections and a constitution?

maybe when i said "democracy" you thought i meant "american democracy"? because i didn't mean that.

[afronaut]

what about every single revolution that has happened before in history? how can you say that revolutions arent possible?
The surrounding situations around pretty much every single revolution were completely different than the current situation in America. Factor that with the fact that many revolutions led to a form of government that was just as oppressive, if not more. There will be no revolution in America. Not anytime soon, at least. The majority of the people are not unhappy enough; or they are, but they're too complacent/blind to realize it.


politics is set up to fail. all things run in cycles, and the time will come when america will fall in its own ashes. we are just beginning our death as a country. our morals are all but gone,
"morals" are part of the problem. The religious right wants our nations laws to be dictated by their "morals."

our economies are falling, our politicians and media are out of control, we are overextended globally, involved in intimidation and conflict across the world. we are excessive. just like every other empire that was about to fall before they actually did.
Thats a bit of an oversimplification of history, but I'm not arguing that America isn't in bad shape. I'm arguing that you have no viable alternatives to replace the failing system. You're simply against the system, nothing more.

we are beginning to worship violence like the romans did, just before they fell. we are losing control.
Ha, we aren't "beginning" to worship violence. And the Rome comparison is the oldest, and weakest, comparison in the book. Rome had plenty of centuries of violence worshiping before they actually fell. There is also the fact that defining the actual "fall" of Rome is hard to define. Are we talking about the fall of the original republic? The fall of the Roman Empire in the West? The end of the Byzantine Eastern Roman empire? Or the end of the Holy Roman Empire in 1806?

See, linking the fall of an empire or civilization, such as Rome, to decadence, a lack of morals, or a love of violence is ridiculous and off-point. Rome was decadent long before she "fell", and continued to have a lasting influence on the world well past her "fall."

but....THERE IS A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE!! yay! reorganize and resettle! redevelop and rekindle! that is, as far away from the system as we can get. the old tune in, turn on and drop out:) but only this time, its not about the philosophy of doing so, its about the living.

we need to give up on the system, give up on waiting, and take control of our own lives. that means sustainability. that means working together....cooperation rather than competition. redefining our goals, rediscovering our capabilities.

you all think im crazy:) hehe
How is this viable, though? How do you plan to transform the entirety of American society with a few noble ideals and concepts? Do you plan on going door to door and telling people to give up their deep-set way of life and to "tune in, turn on, and drop out"? How do you plan to condition society to the point where society is ready to make a change?

You have to start by using the existing system, thats how. You want to give up on waiting? Well then your revolution has already failed. Nothing so big happens spontaneously. Just because you're ready to kick start the revolution, you naively believe the rest of society is ready as well. You're wrong. You and your beliefs not the only factors in the equation.

[Bob]

the thing about saving the world is that the people living in it can't agree about what it means to be saved. joni jo gets his gun in possum pit, arkansas and ainsley mctree in seattle, washington are going to tell you two very different stories about what's wrong with the world today, but you're going to need both of them for your revolution. i'd be kind of afraid of what kind of america would emerge after that revolution. the one we have kind of sucks in certain ways, but damn

[King PSYZ]

It's so cute when kids think Anarchism is a viable alternative to democracy...

If people honestly think anarchism is awesome, take a loook at some of these African nations where things have fallen apart and you have several "government"s claiming power and killing for more.

People are pack animals, without a central government we'll simply move into a gang mentality.

[JohnnyChavello]

Iceland which currently ranks as Number 1 in the HDI rankings.

Iceland is one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries on the map. There is a complete lack of diversity, which contributes to a growing xenophobia among Icelanders. Whatever the US doesn't have going for it, it is still, in many places, the melting pot. As John Staurt Mill would have said, diversity is an essential aspect of liberty.

[afronaut]

It's so cute when kids think Anarchism is a viable alternative to democracy...

If people honestly think anarchism is awesome, take a loook at some of these African nations where things have fallen apart and you have several "government"s claiming power and killing for more.

People are pack animals, without a central government we'll simply move into a gang mentality.
Well, to be fair, there is a significant difference between anarchy and Anarchy.

Look up some works on libertarian socialism for a better understanding of the kind of order that would be in place in a perfect Anarchist world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_libertarian

[DroppinScience]

It's so cute when kids think Anarchism is a viable alternative to democracy...

If people honestly think anarchism is awesome, take a loook at some of these African nations where things have fallen apart and you have several "government"s claiming power and killing for more.

People are pack animals, without a central government we'll simply move into a gang mentality.

I hardly think the African nations fall under the term "anarchism."

Maybe you should look up people like Emma Goldman before throwing around that term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Goldman

[afronaut]

Copycat.

[funk63]

Iceland is one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries on the map. There is a complete lack of diversity, which contributes to a growing xenophobia among Icelanders. Whatever the US doesn't have going for it, it is still, in many places, the melting pot. As John Staurt Mill would have said, diversity is an essential aspect of liberty.

retarded.

[The Notorious LOL]

but....THERE IS A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE!! yay! reorganize and resettle! redevelop and rekindle! that is, as far away from the system as we can get. the old tune in, turn on and drop out:) but only this time, its not about the philosophy of doing so, its about the living.


This is the same boiler plate trite argument of every leftist on the planet. Define for me how we reorganize and resettle (which you wont).

[King PSYZ]

Oh you guys...

Well, to be fair, there is a significant difference between anarchy and Anarchy.

Look up some works on libertarian socialism for a better understanding of the kind of order that would be in place in a perfect Anarchist world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_libertarian
Yes, there is a difference. One is a theory and one is a reality... I am not interested in discussing how might anarchism work in a perfect world if we were all nice boys and girls. I'm someone who understands the small nations in Africa might not consitute the exact definition of anarchism. But I do feel the result will be similar.
I hardly think the African nations fall under the term "anarchism."

Maybe you should look up people like Emma Goldman before throwing around that term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Goldman
Again, theories of anarchism and the actual result are what I am referring to. Although by AA's suggestion we'd all be far too lathargic/doped up to care. So I guess he's envisioning the future we had in Idiocrocy. A people so detached from reality because it bums em out that the nation eats itself until there's nothing left but dust and starbucks.

My point is just saying drop all government as an alternitive to our current system is inviting anarchism and is frankly quite silly.

As the explorer of large hairstyles mentioned, working within the system to fix the leaks and the kinks is the best real way to enact change.

AA, if you wanna do the whole leary thing, go work in a national park or join up with the rainbow kids. Rainbow Kids sound like your kind of dudes. Just don't go picking a fight with their leader...

Or go work in a national park, which is a lot like living on a college campus as far as social forward thinking types. Just minus the academic growth...

[Documad]

The food and liquor are amazing in Iceland but unbelievably expensive. And hot tap water smells of sulfur.

[King PSYZ]

you know who else had water that smelled of sulfur?

[DroppinScience]

Oh you guys...


Yes, there is a difference. One is a theory and one is a reality... I am not interested in discussing how might anarchism work in a perfect world if we were all nice boys and girls. I'm someone who understands the small nations in Africa might not consitute the exact definition of anarchism. But I do feel the result will be similar.

Again, theories of anarchism and the actual result are what I am referring to. Although by AA's suggestion we'd all be far too lathargic/doped up to care. So I guess he's envisioning the future we had in Idiocrocy. A people so detached from reality because it bums em out that the nation eats itself until there's nothing left but dust and starbucks.

My point is just saying drop all government as an alternitive to our current system is inviting anarchism and is frankly quite silly.

As the explorer of large hairstyles mentioned, working within the system to fix the leaks and the kinks is the best real way to enact change.

AA, if you wanna do the whole leary thing, go work in a national park or join up with the rainbow kids. Rainbow Kids sound like your kind of dudes. Just don't go picking a fight with their leader...

Or go work in a national park, which is a lot like living on a college campus as far as social forward thinking types. Just minus the academic growth...

Theories and realities of anarchism are one thing, except where has it been written that nations like Zimbabwe have an official form of government that is self-proclaimed anarchism.

Like afronaut said, I think we're discussing two completely different things.

[King PSYZ]

Theories and realities of anarchism are one thing, except where has it been written that nations like Zimbabwe have an official form of government that is self-proclaimed anarchism.

Like afronaut said, I think we're discussing two completely different things.

you do realize the Zimbabwe situation is an oxymoron right?

Regardless of semantics or specific nations, my point is that if we just stopped having a governement it wouldn't magically turn the US into a global utopia. We'd have "tribes" of different groups claiming power and it will get bloody and ugly real quick.

Hell some groups are begging for that day to come. The Millitiamen groups, the Minutemen anti imigrants, the neo nazis, and all kinds of little pocket fringe groups would love for us to give up on government so they could assert power.

[D_Raay]

i guess i'm a little ignorant about iceland, but don't they have a democratic form of government? with a president and a prime minister and political parties and elections and a constitution?

maybe when i said "democracy" you thought i meant "american democracy"? because i didn't mean that.

Yeah I was actually referring more to how democracy is implemented here as opposed to other countries and how it effects it's populaces.

[D_Raay]

Iceland is one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries on the map. There is a complete lack of diversity, which contributes to a growing xenophobia among Icelanders. Whatever the US doesn't have going for it, it is still, in many places, the melting pot. As John Staurt Mill would have said, diversity is an essential aspect of liberty.

The times when America was the promised land of opportunity for the poor and oppressed have already passed. The U.S. has become the most unequal country in the world, totally dominated by an arrogant, plutocratic elite. The accumulated wealth of this elite is of staggering proportions. So is their arrogance. The military doctrine of the Bush administration is a good example. In it the United States government assumes the right pre-emptively to apply force whenever and wherever the government sees fit without consultation or restraint by anyone else in the world. It is imperialist self-glorification at its worst. To serve this purpose the U.S. spends more on its military than all other countries in the world combined. The declared aim is to be militarily dominant everywhere, on land, on the seas and in space. They have started a new cold war with the aim of controlling the utilisation of the most valuable raw materials and energy sources of the planet. They have identified China as their future enemy and reorganised their network of military bases around the globe to meet that perceived menace. This new American imperial elite needs no allies. And it has been the Bush administration’s unqualified achievement to unify the whole world against this arrogant power.

[saz]

(y)


Thats a bit of an oversimplification of history, but I'm not arguing that America isn't in bad shape. I'm arguing that you have no viable alternatives to replace the failing system. You're simply against the system, nothing more.

Ha, we aren't "beginning" to worship violence. And the Rome comparison is the oldest, and weakest, comparison in the book. Rome had plenty of centuries of violence worshiping before they actually fell. There is also the fact that defining the actual "fall" of Rome is hard to define. Are we talking about the fall of the original republic? The fall of the Roman Empire in the West? The end of the Byzantine Eastern Roman empire? Or the end of the Holy Roman Empire in 1806?

See, linking the fall of an empire or civilization, such as Rome, to decadence, a lack of morals, or a love of violence is ridiculous and off-point. Rome was decadent long before she "fell", and continued to have a lasting influence on the world well past her "fall."

the rome comparison that is always made in these circumstances is so cliche, and very flawed like you pointed out. whenever people make this comparison to contemporary america, they always fail to take into consideration that the romans became christians, the empire changed with the moving of the capital from rome to constantinople, and that roman civlization didn't end due to decadence, pagan morals nor the worship of violence. roman civilization lasted for thousands of years, whereas america itself has existed for only a few hundred years.

the system is failing because the two party system just doesn't work anymore. the two parties represent the exact same interests, the interests of corporate america, and not those of the people. the dems used to represent the people but they sold out, with only progressive dems carrying on the traditional new deal populism. every western nation has more than two major political parties except the states, and you can't expect much to change in these circumstances.

[afronaut]

The two party system seems tailor made to resist any real change. That and it's a self perpetuating system. The way two-party politics are fought, dirty and always demonizing the other side, scares people away from voting third parties; because even though the majority of the people may not like the candidate their party selects, they support anyway him because "imagine what'll happen if the other guy gets elected?"

It's a trap that the public is tricked into every election year. You always hear the "lesser of two evils" argument. It's a trap I've even fallen into; but I still maintain that during this election and the last one, the main focus is getting the current regime out of office.

But sometime or another we're going to have to start breaking the spell and support the candidates we really believe in, and encourage others to do so as well.

I think the relatively "large" support for Ron Paul is somewhat hopeful. It shows that conservatives are just as eager as liberals to break out of the current system.

[funk63]

you do realize the Zimbabwe situation is an oxymoron right?

Regardless of semantics or specific nations, my point is that if we just stopped having a governement it wouldn't magically turn the US into a global utopia. We'd have "tribes" of different groups claiming power and it will get bloody and ugly real quick.

Hell some groups are begging for that day to come. The Millitiamen groups, the Minutemen anti imigrants, the neo nazis, and all kinds of little pocket fringe groups would love for us to give up on government so they could assert power.

lol. all those groups combined are a minority compared to the various latino and black gangs which you fail to mention.

[JohnnyChavello]

lol. all those groups combined are a minority compared to the various latino and black gangs which you fail to mention.

Hillbillies say the darndest things.

[King PSYZ]

Hillbillies say the darndest things.


thanks... that's a lot nicer than what I was about to say...

[funk63]

ya, im a native-american hillbilly from dc.. you dont see alot of them..dumbass. i lived in washington dc for the most of my life and wentto a school thats 90 percent black and students die on a monthly basis. sorry im tellin it like it is asspapaya.

[funk63]

thanks... that's a lot nicer than what I was about to say...

say what you will im just telling it like it is based on my life experiences.

[alien autopsy]

The times when America was the promised land of opportunity for the poor and oppressed have already passed. The U.S. has become the most unequal country in the world, totally dominated by an arrogant, plutocratic elite. The accumulated wealth of this elite is of staggering proportions. So is their arrogance. The military doctrine of the Bush administration is a good example. In it the United States government assumes the right pre-emptively to apply force whenever and wherever the government sees fit without consultation or restraint by anyone else in the world. It is imperialist self-glorification at its worst. To serve this purpose the U.S. spends more on its military than all other countries in the world combined. The declared aim is to be militarily dominant everywhere, on land, on the seas and in space. They have started a new cold war with the aim of controlling the utilisation of the most valuable raw materials and energy sources of the planet. They have identified China as their future enemy and reorganised their network of military bases around the globe to meet that perceived menace. This new American imperial elite needs no allies. And it has been the Bush administration’s unqualified achievement to unify the whole world against this arrogant power.

sadly its not limited to bush. to a lesser or greater extent, this has been occuring throughout american history. vietnam. the native americans. central america. south america. the fucking school of the americas.

what more reason to want REAL LASTING change. no politician in this system will be allowed to do that. that is why it is up to us. and it is beyond politics until we reconfigure our political system. its not easy to change the system. it will protect itself. so it is wholey up to us, as citizens, to take control of our own lives.

[alien autopsy]

call the "rome comparison" cliche, debunk it say whatever you want. revolutions do happen. empires do fall. america will fall. china will rise. china will fall. dynasties, empires, kings, presidents, POLITICS. it will all fall, and just as living things are born, grow and die, so will they.

[alien autopsy]

The two party system seems tailor made to resist any real change. That and it's a self perpetuating system. The way two-party politics are fought, dirty and always demonizing the other side, scares people away from voting third parties; because even though the majority of the people may not like the candidate their party selects, they support anyway him because "imagine what'll happen if the other guy gets elected?"

It's a trap that the public is tricked into every election year. You always hear the "lesser of two evils" argument. It's a trap I've even fallen into; but I still maintain that during this election and the last one, the main focus is getting the current regime out of office.

But sometime or another we're going to have to start breaking the spell and support the candidates we really believe in, and encourage others to do so as well.

I think the relatively "large" support for Ron Paul is somewhat hopeful. It shows that conservatives are just as eager as liberals to break out of the current system.

the two party system is meant to protect itself. it does resist change. it is an excuse to say to the american people: "okay! youa re tired of the democrats! well, heres a republican! oh, now youa re tired of a republican, heres a democrat!" meanwhile, they are working together, profitting of your losses, and the exploitation of the poor and exploitable. its a bullshit system, and it has america convinced it is righteous.

[King PSYZ]

say what you will im just telling it like it is based on my life experiences.

I walked to work in Compton, I don't need anyone to try and tell me shit about gangs.

One gangs are very small compared to the larger nutjob groups I mentioned because they're not orginized. But again, it's semantics. You're basiclly agreeing with me but cutting down my argument for not throwing in small time mexican and black gangs.

If they were nationally orginized like the fringe groups I had mentioned it would be a much different story here.

The position remains the same though, I'm not going to list off every single possible group that would vie for power.

[funk63]

I walked to work in Compton, I don't need anyone to try and tell me shit about gangs.

One gangs are very small compared to the larger nutjob groups I mentioned because they're not orginized. But again, it's semantics. You're basiclly agreeing with me but cutting down my argument for not throwing in small time mexican and black gangs.

If they were nationally orginized like the fringe groups I had mentioned it would be a much different story here.

The position remains the same though, I'm not going to list off every single possible group that would vie for power.



i lived in a shitty as neighborhood in fairfax, VA. and ghettos and dc are fucking bad. ive been jumped like 2 times and had my shit stolen. ive never been jumped by a neo nazi is all im sayin. inner city gangs are responsible for more murders robbings gang rapes then "neo nazis" and shit like that. and i honestly think groups like that are made up of uneducated idiots with no real power.

[JohnnyChavello]

i lived in a shitty as neighborhood in fairfax, VA...

Uh, Fairfax ain't Compton. I went to school in Virginia. I've lived and worked in Fairfax, two of my best friends grew up in Fairfax, and Fairfax, VA is a white suburb of Washington with one of the country's best public school systems. It's where DC professionals go to raise their families in a conservative community - away from more "diverse" outskirts like Alexandria. Not exactly the mean streets by a long shot.

[funk63]

well i lived there a good portion of my life, i think id fucking know. it has its rough areas trust me im not rich so idk maybe im missing out on this overgeneralized description. im not in a fucking bragging contest im just saying that ive felt the effects of gang violence.

[Burnout18]

and i thought obama was being attacked here

[Ali]

Isn't Obama's middle name Hussein (or something).

I hear that's about the best old McMuggins can come up with.

[abcdefz]

Too fuckin' tall.

[The Notorious LOL]

well i lived there a good portion of my life, i think id fucking know. it has its rough areas trust me im not rich so idk maybe im missing out on this overgeneralized description. im not in a fucking bragging contest im just saying that ive felt the effects of gang violence.

http://safety.fizber.com/Virginia/Fairfax-City/


yes it looks very dangerous.

[funk63]

http://safety.fizber.com/Virginia/Fairfax-City/


yes it looks very dangerous.


im not saying its a dangerous place on the whole. but even that graph shows the dramatic increase of crime.

[QueenAdrock]

I found a great video about an attack on Obama:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWVGmyyhx8g

Did Faux really sink that low to do that kind of thing? It's not doctored or anything, right? I mean, this video proves that their creativity is gone and it's apparent they're grasping at straws to find something wrong with Obama. Karl Rove, I thought you were better at the game than this.

[yeahwho]

The Trinity of Hell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejTmistHFw0&eurl=http://publiuspress.typepad.com/blackdogpress/2008/05/barack-obama-is.html)

[Lyman Zerga]

.

im sick of presidents. they all say one thing, then fall through on all their promises.

thats what politic is all about, with or without presidents

[ToucanSpam]

It's so cute when kids think Anarchism is a viable alternative to democracy...

If people honestly think anarchism is awesome, take a loook at some of these African nations where things have fallen apart and you have several "government"s claiming power and killing for more.

People are pack animals, without a central government we'll simply move into a gang mentality.

I agree completely with you and DS on this. Disengaging from society and the current political system leads to a continuation of the current problems. Obama isn't the Christlike figure a lot of people think he is, but he is substantially better than what's in place now. Not that it would take much...


Anyways, it's better to fight within the system than to lay down arms and submit to defeat. Fighting always means progression of some kind.

[AceFace]

ok this is not an attack, but something that genuinely bothers me.

http://store.barackobama.com/Stickers_s/500.htm

see these stickers? i would like one for my car and want to order one to help with the campaign. what bothers me is all the race related stickers. i mean "Asian Americans Pacific Islanders for Obama"... "Latinos for Obama"... "African Americans for Obama"? so where's the "Caucasians for Obama" stickers? or the "Irish Americans for Obama" ones? i would prefer that race be taken out of the sticker equation to begin with as i think it shouldn't be an issue what race someone is, but i feel a little left out. i mean i could chose the "Women for Obama" sticker, but where are the "Men for Obama" stickers? why do some voters get their own stickers while others have to be content with the regular old Obama sticker b/c they're Caucasian, males?

i know this might seem trivial and i'm using some humor to get my point across, but it really just bothered me so much that i didn't even buy one.

[Bob]

white men have it rough, nobody respects their opinions :(

[King PSYZ]

whatever whitey

[Bob]

stop persecuting me!

[King PSYZ]

as soon as you stop oppressing me

[Dorothy Wood]

I have to say I'm more offended by the "got hope?" sticker than any of the others.

also, bob and afronaut are some of my favorite internet people ever in the world.

[venusvenus123]

ok this is not an attack, but something that genuinely bothers me.

http://store.barackobama.com/Stickers_s/500.htm

see these stickers? i would like one for my car and want to order one to help with the campaign. what bothers me is all the race related stickers. i mean "Asian Americans Pacific Islanders for Obama"... "Latinos for Obama"... "African Americans for Obama"? so where's the "Caucasians for Obama" stickers? or the "Irish Americans for Obama" ones? i would prefer that race be taken out of the sticker equation to begin with as i think it shouldn't be an issue what race someone is, but i feel a little left out. i mean i could chose the "Women for Obama" sticker, but where are the "Men for Obama" stickers? why do some voters get their own stickers while others have to be content with the regular old Obama sticker b/c they're Caucasian, males?

i know this might seem trivial and i'm using some humor to get my point across, but it really just bothered me so much that i didn't even buy one.

do you really feel that white men are under-represented in the US?

hey, you could get the rainbow sticker.

i note that his stickers are union made.

he's just trying to make the point that he's considered everyone... including republicans! doesn't that cover your average white male?

really tho, america thinks of itself as the leader of the "free" world, yet you get only two weeks holiday a year, and you don't have a national health service, to name but two completely backwards elements of your society. change has to be a good thing...

[ms.peachy]

I have to say I'm more offended by the "got hope?" sticker than any of the others.


:confused: I'm trying to work out why that offends you?

[AceFace]

do you really feel that white men are under-represented in the US?

hey, you could get the rainbow sticker.

i note that his stickers are union made.

he's just trying to make the point that he's considered everyone... including republicans! doesn't that cover your average white male?

really tho, america thinks of itself as the leader of the "free" world, yet you get only two weeks holiday a year, and you don't have a national health service, to name but two completely backwards elements of your society. change has to be a good thing...

haha. i think i was just trying to point out that the "race" stickers were a little out of hand, that's all. i wonder if the McCain camp has "GLTB for McCain" stickers.

and i only get ONE week of vacation! :eek: :(

[venusvenus123]

and i only get ONE week of vacation! :eek: :(
see, now that is a human rights' abuse!

you should move to europe ;)

[AceFace]

^seriously... if we vote another repub. in, i might just do that. :p

[Dorothy Wood]

:confused: I'm trying to work out why that offends you?

ha ha, well, it's just so cheesy!


I get 10 days of paid holiday!

well, actually more if you count national holidays for which I get paid and don't have to work.

also, if I want, I can take time off as much as I want, I just don't get paid. :/

how many holidays do the europeans get?

[Bob]

ha ha, well, it's just so cheesy!


I get 10 days of paid holiday!

well, actually more if you count national holidays for which I get paid and don't have to work.

also, if I want, I can take time off as much as I want, I just don't get paid. :/

how many holidays do the europeans get?

every day is a holiday when you're european!

[Dorothy Wood]

when you're a-peein'!

[RobMoney$]

Alright everyone, enough playing grab-ass.
Get back to attacking Obama.

[QueenAdrock]

ok this is not an attack, but something that genuinely bothers me.

http://store.barackobama.com/Stickers_s/500.htm

see these stickers? i would like one for my car and want to order one to help with the campaign. what bothers me is all the race related stickers. i mean "Asian Americans Pacific Islanders for Obama"... "Latinos for Obama"... "African Americans for Obama"? so where's the "Caucasians for Obama" stickers? or the "Irish Americans for Obama" ones? i would prefer that race be taken out of the sticker equation to begin with as i think it shouldn't be an issue what race someone is, but i feel a little left out. i mean i could chose the "Women for Obama" sticker, but where are the "Men for Obama" stickers? why do some voters get their own stickers while others have to be content with the regular old Obama sticker b/c they're Caucasian, males?

i know this might seem trivial and i'm using some humor to get my point across, but it really just bothered me so much that i didn't even buy one.

Yeah, it's to visibly show in public that he's trying to bring all of the people together and reach out to minorities and Republicans and women and all of that. But I was remarking the other day how I want a "Rich Whiteys for Obama" sticker and I was sad they didn't have my demographic. :( Well, almost my demographic. Maybe a "Poor Whitey Overseas Grad Students for Obama" sticker.

I do like the "Republicans for Obama" idea because there's a lot of idiots out there that are like "Duh, I don't like McCain but I'm scared of Obama," who may be swayed if they see tons of "Republicans for Obama" stickers. One or two may not do it, but if you see them absolutely everywhere, there's no reason to really be scared of him since obviously your other buddies in your party are supporting him, right? I think that's what needs to be done this election; there needs to be high visibility of people for Obama who fall outside of the typical Democratic demographic to help sway the people who don't really listen to the news and just go by what they overhear/see in casual everyday life.

Annnyways, if you want a free bumper sticker, get one here. (https://pol.moveon.org/obamastickers/?rc=homepage)

[yeahwho]

Whatever we do, lets please not criticize or attack the current administration, or even think too hard about what they've accomplished.

Let Bush, Cheney and friends skate "scott free" and ATTACK OBAMA!


Because afterall what sort of experience does Obama have completely fucking over the planet? Lets all concentrate on his message of hope and rip it to shreds.

Brilliant.

[na§tee]

a week of holiday a year? wow. fuck that shit.

i get 27 days holiday a year. four of those i have to use for christmas though, so essentially it is 23 days. i get those in addition to public holidays and the days the university is closed, too. it's closed for two friggin' weeks at christmas and i only have to 'pay' for four days! wooh!

that's pretty exceptional though. most people i know work up to christmas eve and go back the day after boxing day (boxing day is a public holiday in scotland). it's only because i work in higher educashun.

because my annual leave year starts in october and i have loads left, this is allowing me to piss off to australia for a month and still get paid. i wouldn't be able to do that in america and keep my job, i'm guessing.

edit: i'm not bragging or anything, i'm just surprised how employers can get away with that in the states. when i asked my boss for a month off she was practically shoving me out the door, like "pft, no problem. fuck off! i don't want you to ask me again, just do it!" ahaha. she's from san francisco, actually. maybe she has innate vacation empathy.

[RobMoney$]

I live in the US and get 20 days vacation (4 weeks), 3 sick days, and 10 paid Holidays (3 of which I can use as vac. days).

I've worked for over 14 years for the same company to accrue that much time though. Not everyone in the US gets screwed on vacation, it's just that most people on here are young and are just starting out in their careers.

[AceFace]

yeah. my husband gets like 8 weeks off, but he's worked for the company 11 years and is in management.

i work part time, so i probably shouldn't be complaining that i only get a week off a year. i will say, most employers i've ever had have conditioned me to feel guilty about asking for my vacation time.

actually my current employer is really great. if i end up having to work a full day, they give me a comp day to use whenever i want. i don't get paid for the extra time i worked, but i do get paid for the days i take off later. it all works out for me.

[AceFace]

Annnyways, if you want a free bumper sticker, get one here. (https://pol.moveon.org/obamastickers/?rc=homepage)

awesome! thanks!

[yeahwho]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch,

The Columbia Journalism Review (http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/obamas_rumor_patrol.php) reports about FighttheSmears.com (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/), the new Obama effort to shoot down lies being floated about him in Middle America. CJR wonders why Obama has to do this job himself, why the media, whose duty it is to bring the public the truth, can't be expected to do this sort of work on its own.

[Bob]

I've worked for over 14 years for the same company to accrue that much time though. Not everyone in the US gets screwed on vacation, it's just that most people on here are young and are just starting out in their careers.

not everyone, no, but quite a few, and not just in terms of vacation time, either. workers with no bargaining power in this country get fucked, and hard.

[yeahwho]

not everyone, no, but quite a few, and not just in terms of vacation time, either. workers with no bargaining power in this country get fucked, and hard.

correct, absolutely. without my union representation i would be working in a much unsafer environment with 0 benefits. in fact, without the union i'd change careers, it would not be worth it. even with union representation many here in seattle get screwed by corporate decisions, just like nationwide on a regular basis.

[Bob]

correct, absolutely. without my union representation i would be working in a much unsafer environment with 0 benefits. in fact, without the union i'd change careers, it would not be worth it. even with union representation many here in seattle get screwed by corporate decisions, just like nationwide on a regular basis.

but the union just wants your money! and they're controlled by the mob and they take away YOUR LIBERTY to negotiate freely with your employer on an individual basis and and and oh god what else did that walmart training video tell me to say...

[RobMoney$]

Pffthahaha

I organized a Union campaign about 3 years ago. We lost that vote by 3 votes. They had everyone in my company in meetings with Union busters for hours everyday.
I was the only person in my whole company that was not required to attend these meetings. In fact I was prevented from attending them. I was given seperate meetings where they gave me some generic information about my job duties everyday.

All I can do is laugh every time I have someone come to me and ask me to organize another campaign and they'll vote yes this time.

[venusvenus123]

I live in the US and get 20 days vacation (4 weeks), 3 sick days, and 10 paid Holidays (3 of which I can use as vac. days).

I've worked for over 14 years for the same company to accrue that much time though. Not everyone in the US gets screwed on vacation, it's just that most people on here are young and are just starting out in their careers.
i just always heard that people in the US get 2 weeks of holiday, officially.

i just copied this from the UK gov work site:

There is a minimum right to paid holiday, but your employer may offer more than this. The main things you should know about holiday rights are:

* you are entitled to a minimum of 4.8 weeks (from 1 October 2007)
* the entitlement will increase again to 5.6 weeks from 1 April 2009

makes up for the shitty weather :o

[RobMoney$]

Here's how my company works:

10 Holidays (Christmas, Easter, ect.) - usually 3 or 4 of these days you can take at your discretion depending how the holidays fall on a certain year.

3 sick days - meaning you can just call out sick that day.

10 days Vacation - company will usually request you schedule these days in advance.


5 years of employment - 15 days vacation
10 years of employment - 20 days vacation
20 years of employment - 25 days vacation



I think this is a pretty the standard vacation offering in the US.

[DroppinScience]

i just always heard that people in the US get 2 weeks of holiday, officially.

i just copied this from the UK gov work site:

There is a minimum right to paid holiday, but your employer may offer more than this. The main things you should know about holiday rights are:

* you are entitled to a minimum of 4.8 weeks (from 1 October 2007)
* the entitlement will increase again to 5.6 weeks from 1 April 2009

makes up for the shitty weather :o

The huge amount of vacation time does seem to explain why the Brits seem to travel EVERYWHERE.

[Documad]

Europeans and Australians tend to get a lot more vacation than Americans. Most Americans never get over 4 weeks, no matter how long they work for their employer. My sister will never get more than 3 weeks.

And then there are people like me. I receive a salary rather than an hourly wage. I am expected to do my work no matter how many hours it takes. No one does my work when I am away. I technically get 6 weeks of vacation but there is no way in hell I could actually take it and I work almost every weekend. Even when I am on vacation I am sometimes working via email. But I love my job and that's worth a lot.

[King PSYZ]

i just always heard that people in the US get 2 weeks of holiday, officially.

i just copied this from the UK gov work site:

There is a minimum right to paid holiday, but your employer may offer more than this. The main things you should know about holiday rights are:

* you are entitled to a minimum of 4.8 weeks (from 1 October 2007)
* the entitlement will increase again to 5.6 weeks from 1 April 2009

makes up for the shitty weather :o

That's the thing, we really get no official Vacation requirements. It's considered a benifit of working for one employer over another.

So like with my job I get 13 days every year, but they're also paid at my base wage and don't take into consideration my commission which is 75% of my income. So I rarely will use them and just let them expire.

[alien autopsy]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch,

The Columbia Journalism Review (http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/obamas_rumor_patrol.php) reports about FighttheSmears.com (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/), the new Obama effort to shoot down lies being floated about him in Middle America. CJR wonders why Obama has to do this job himself, why the media, whose duty it is to bring the public the truth, can't be expected to do this sort of work on its own.

obama has this website to promote himself. the media just sends more and more shit to keep you glued to your tv.

[Bob]

That's the thing, we really get no official Vacation requirements. It's considered a benifit of working for one employer over another.

So like with my job I get 13 days every year, but they're also paid at my base wage and don't take into consideration my commission which is 75% of my income. So I rarely will use them and just let them expire.

i should probably know this, but is there a statutorily required minimum amount of vacation time (like minimum wage)? i took an employment law class that was about, among other things (inter alia, if you will) minimum wage and overtime but i don't remember anything about vacations. is it just something employers do out of their own...uh...generosity?

[Documad]

i should probably know this, but is there a statutorily required minimum amount of vacation time (like minimum wage)? i took an employment law class that was about, among other things (inter alia, if you will) minimum wage and overtime but i don't remember anything about vacations. is it just something employers do out of their own...uh...generosity?
I don't think so, at least not in the federal fair labor standards act. It's a matter of agreement between employer and employee. States often have their own fair labor standards acts but in my state it tends to cover even less than the feds.

And anyhow, remember that the fair labor standards have a million exceptions. For instance, the minimum wage and overtime laws don't apply to you and me because we're professionals.

[King PSYZ]

right, it's not a requirement of law to provide vacation, it's a benifit given by employers to entice better employees to stay (turnover is expensive in many industries) and to not burn them out physically or mentally.

[yeahwho]

Even when I am on vacation I am sometimes working via email. But I love my job and that's worth a lot.

The important thing is you have to enjoy what you do, there are plenty of people doing my job that are non-union and hey they're plenty happy doing it, so was I before I joined the union. Now I'm more than plenty happy, I'm guaranteed a standard of living that provides excellent vacation, medical, dental , free school and some of the highest wages in the industry.

In return the we provide the highest standard of work bar none, in a professional matter. The information I've gleamed in the past few years from fellow union workers has made my own skills excel beyond any previous standard I had ever set for myself.

But to be honest the industry I'm in is chockful of chronic malcontents. Which may explain my crankiness at times.

[Bob]

And anyhow, remember that the fair labor standards have a million exceptions. For instance, the minimum wage and overtime laws don't apply to you and me because we're professionals.

and sometimes it doesn't even apply to day laborers or other people that it was clearly designed to protect in the first place because they're "independent contractors," not employees. i still raise an eyebrow every time i hear the phrase independent contractor after taking that class.