CNN breaking news...DNC likely to sit FL & MI votes.

[RobMoney$]

Court rules DNC may sit Florida votes.

LINK (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/28/dnc.memo/index.html)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Democratic Party is likely to meet rule-breaking Florida and Michigan halfway when it comes to seating their delegates at the national convention, two members of the rules committee said Wednesday.

Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign is pushing for a plan to seat as many Florida and Michigan delegates as possible.

Such a move may help Sen. Hillary Clinton close the delegate gap with front-runner Sen. Barack Obama but not overtake him, said sources familiar with party deliberations.
The sources did not want to be identified because the full committee has not discussed the problem or ruled on it.
The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee meets Saturday in Washington to consider what to do with Florida and Michigan, which broke ranks to hold primaries earlier than party rules allowed.
As punishment, both state parties were told that they would not be represented at all when the party officially nominates a presidential candidate at the August convention in Denver, Colorado, and they are challenging those sanctions.
Clinton and her supporters have been pressing for a compromise that seats as many delegates from the two states as possible. Clinton's Web site encourages people to write to the Rules and Bylaws Committee.
"There is one number that we are going to be satisfied with, and that is 2.3 million people having their votes counted," Clinton supporter Tina Flournoy said. About 600,000 people voted in Michigan and about 1.7 million in Florida.
The party needs "to recognize the January primary votes in both of those states," Clinton campaign co-chairman Harold Ickes said Wednesday.
"Pledged delegates fairly reflect the will of the voters," Ickes said, referring to delegates chosen in primaries and caucuses.
Ickes and Flournoy are both members of the Rules and Bylaws Committee.

Clinton, the New York senator and former first lady, won decisively in both states. But all candidates initially agreed not to campaign in either state after they broke party rules.
Obama and some other candidates had their names taken off the Michigan ballot, but he was on Florida's ballot.
In addition to deciding how many, if any, Florida and Michigan delegates to seat at the convention, the rules committee must determine how the delegates would be allocated between Clinton and Obama.
Various formulas have been suggested, most of which would give Clinton more delegates than Obama, but not enough to overtake his lead, which CNN currently estimates at about 200.
Ickes said Wednesday that he expected Obama's lead over Clinton to be "over 100" pledged delegates when primary season ends June 3.


Counting the two states' votes could bring Clinton close enough to Obama's total among pledged delegates which in turn could help persuade the party's "superdelegates" that she is the more electable general election candidate.
Superdelegates are party officials who can cast their ballots for the candidate of their choice. They hold the balance of power in the party at the moment.
The Obama campaign says it is willing to compromise on how Michigan and Florida delegates are seated, portraying its position as a gesture to party unity.
"Any compromise is going to benefit Sen. Clinton," Obama strategist David Plouffe said Wednesday. "We're hoping there can be some reasonable resolution on Saturday that can allow us to move to the general election."
The Obama campaign was dismissive of efforts by the Clinton campaign to have supporters demonstrate outside the rules meeting.
"We're not going to turn this thing into a circus," former Democratic Party Chairman David Wilhelm said.
A memo prepared for Rule and Bylaws Committee members says the party was within its rights to strip both states of all their delegates. CNN obtained a copy of the confidential memo, which committee members received Tuesday.
Party rules require that states lose at least 50 percent of all their delegates for the violations Michigan and Florida committed.
The documents are intentionally neutral, according to a senior Democratic Party official with knowledge of the rules and bylaws discussions and who is not aligned with either Clinton or Obama.
They do not make specific recommendations. The analysis seeks to provide a rules framework for each argument and the issues raised within each challenge.
Separately, a federal judge in Tampa on Wednesday threw out a lawsuit challenging the party's decision not to seat delegates from Florida.
Political consultant Victor DiMaio and his attorney, Michael Steinberg, had compared the decision to prohibitions against allowing African-Americans to vote. And they invoked the trauma of the Florida recount in the 2000 contest between Al Gore and George W. Bush.
"This is nuts. This is not right. How can they remove Florida after all the things that Florida has suffered through? Hanging chads, through Bush v. Gore, and they're sticking it to us again," DiMaio said before the hearing.
But DNC Chairman Howard Dean said the situations are not comparable.
"You cannot violate the rules of the process and then expect to get forgiven for it," Dean said.


Judge Richard Lazzara sided with the DNC, saying political parties have the right to make their own rules. It is the second Florida lawsuit protesting the party's decision to be thrown out of court, following one filed by Sen. Bill Nelson and Rep. Alcee Hastings, both Florida Democrats.
DiMaio may appeal to the Supreme Court.


It just got interesting again.

[Documad]

Clinton participated when they made the rulings in the first place. Now she's trying to back up the rule breakers because it happens to suit her personal interest. Obama didn't run in those states because those were the rules at the time. It's all pretty sad. On the other hand, it was really really stupid for the DNC to make the rulings in the first place. It's all a product of the insanity of letting NH and Iowa have first crack. :rolleyes:

[QueenAdrock]

Yeah it's funny how she agreed that any states that broke the rules should be punished and stripped of the delegates but now that it AFFECTS her, she changes her tune. Hypocrite, much?

I also like how she didn't talk much, if at all, about Florida and Michigan getting counted until she realized she was getting her ass handed to her by Obama and now NEEDS their votes for a slim chance of victory.

Either way, give them to her. According to just about everything I read about the election process, it won't matter. She's still going to lose, but at least it'll give her a small bit of happiness before she has to drop out.

Obama just needs 48 more delegates to win. I'm sure he'll get the appropriate amount of state delegates and superdelegates by next week or soon after.

[RobMoney$]

To be fair, it's not as if she's the only one in the entire Democratic Party pushing for these votes to count.

Obama has an interest in allowing these votes to count as well. He doesn't want to piss the voters off and be against allowing these folks the right to have their votes counted, especially Florida after the hanging CHAD's debacle of 2000.
Come Novemember he's going to need these people.

Like QA said, let her have them.
It likely won't affect the outcome and she won't have the "victim" excuse anymore if she is eliminated.


I've been saying all along, this is Howard Dean's mess.
Half delegates would have been the appropriate punishment from the begining.


I also think Blacks should be counted as 2/5th's a vote.

[yeahwho]

Who gives a shit anymore, getting indignant or righteous over either of these states is a joke at this time and juncture. I'm at the point that I wish Obama could win by 1 delegate. Just fucking flaunt it.

To do these counts and campaign endlessly such as this, seems like a horrible waste of money and a free ticket to the Republican party to form strategy points.

But let the Florida and Michigan votes be counted, wishy washy fucked democratic party should grow a spine but apparently it never will.

[alien autopsy]

wow, what a nail biter. great, lets keep the masses caught up in the manufactured battle...isnt there a war going on?

[yeahwho]

Hey everybody look at me I'm Bill Clinton (http://www.visitingdc.com/images/bill-clinton-picture.jpg), the Names Bill C-l-i-n-t-o-n (http://blog.lib.umn.edu/ster0171/socks/bill-clinton-pimp.jpg), listen what I got to say, I'm Bill Clinton (http://pewresearch.org/databank/dailynumber/?NumberID=532).

[funk63]

wow, what a nail biter. great, lets keep the masses caught up in the manufactured battle...isnt there a war going on?

i like your style

[yeahwho]

I'm not too sure you could make up anything this stupid. Here is the democratic party with a slew of uncommitted super delegates and daily press watching their every move. To see these two candidates this much before the actual race begins is sickening.

The graceful, non aggressive Hillary Clinton does not exist, her husband is sucking up as much media time as he possibly can on her behalf and it feels just like the 90's.

The democratic majority got into congress and continued to aid the war, they ask for more money but I'm not giving them anymore. It's a fucked up game of posturing and maneuvering for their own political lives, we who helped them now are being hoodwinked.

The presidents ex speaker of the house has done more damage than the democratic majority with a book. Color me disenchanted, It has everything to do with the Clinton's non-stop arrogance. She voted for the war, she's funding the war and how she'll come clean and start up a policy of "Not Killing People" seems pretty far from any time soon.

Whatever happens from here on out I hope that we can look back at Hillary's tenaciousness and remember what is really important here, while we do continue to have a policy of war our goodwill internationally and here at home has been destroyed by politicians making some huge mistakes.

What needs to be accomplished is, action, healing and goodwill.

[alien autopsy]

action healing and goodwill will never be accomplished by the presidency. their legacy is greed, corruption, exploitation, and war. ask the native americans, ask the african americans, the mexican americans...ask those in central america, south america, palestine, iraq, south asia, the pacific islands...
the only goodwill you will see is in the case of natural disasters. why arent we liberating sudan? and it will only come when american corporations have something to gain from it.

[D_Raay]

action healing and goodwill will never be accomplished by the presidency. their legacy is greed, corruption, exploitation, and war. ask the native americans, ask the african americans, the mexican americans...ask those in central america, south america, palestine, iraq, south asia, the pacific islands...
the only goodwill you will see is in the case of natural disasters. why arent we liberating sudan? and it will only come when american corporations have something to gain from it.

Ah and weren't we warned so many years ago that this would be our downfall?

Maybe Annie Oakley will get out there and fight in Iraq for Exxon. Now THAT would be tenaciousness.

[RobMoney$]

I'm not too sure you could make up anything this stupid. Here is the democratic party with a slew of uncommitted super delegates and daily press watching their every move. To see these two candidates this much before the actual race begins is sickening.

The graceful, non aggressive Hillary Clinton does not exist, her husband is sucking up as much media time as he possibly can on her behalf and it feels just like the 90's.

The democratic majority got into congress and continued to aid the war, they ask for more money but I'm not giving them anymore. It's a fucked up game of posturing and maneuvering for their own political lives, we who helped them now are being hoodwinked.

The presidents ex speaker of the house has done more damage than the democratic majority with a book. Color me disenchanted, It has everything to do with the Clinton's non-stop arrogance. She voted for the war, she's funding the war and how she'll come clean and start up a policy of "Not Killing People" seems pretty far from any time soon.

Whatever happens from here on out I hope that we can look back at Hillary's tenaciousness and remember what is really important here, while we do continue to have a policy of war our goodwill internationally and here at home has been destroyed by politicians making some huge mistakes.

What needs to be accomplished is, action, healing and goodwill.


I'd just like to know what anti-Clinton MB you're getting your material from.

Now she's to blame for Iraq?
Ay yo homeboy whatchu smokin man?

[yeahwho]

I'd just like to know what anti-Clinton MB you're getting your material from.

Now she's to blame for Iraq?
Ay yo homeboy whatchu smokin man?

I'm smokin' the real thing, I'm just not inhaling.

Actually I'm pissed as much at Obama as I am at all the democratic party, I sent them (democratic party) money in 2006, millions of citizens did so we could get some change and clarity on this fucked up Iraq war.

They took our money and they took our votes, we have 0, zip, nada in return.

[alien autopsy]

WAKE UP AMERICA! Another carefully set up weapon of mass destraction!
this florida/michigan bullshit was set up to keep you glued to the tele, watching, and feeling that you are a part of america, that change is taking place, that we are not missing a vote! ITS A FUCKING SHAM. dont be shammed! there are larger issues in the election process that we need to focus on and change. this shit makes me sick to my stomach.

[alien autopsy]

This shit reads like a book.

michigan disinfranchised, the auto industry failing, economies gone, high unemployment...the people feel left behind and america knows this.

florida disinfranchised- 2000 elections and the recount, literally throwing away votes, on the basis of race dirty tactics used to win bush the presidency. america feels this.


and so now we bring them together, and we set the stage (it was set the minute the dems got together and created this issue for this election cycle) to be used months down the line as another wmd. its all so carefully scripted and carried out for you to watch, for you to know, for you to feel that america is real.

lets not forget the real issues at hand. lets not be fed, let us seek.

VOMIT!

[Bob]

you should get a radio show man, take this message to the masses where it can do some good

[NoFenders]

This is all quite the show. Hope for change!! Since nobody really will change a thing, you can awlays hope. What a joke.


:cool:

[yeahwho]

This is all quite the show. Hope for change!! Since nobody really will change a thing, you can awlays hope. What a joke.


:cool:

What is your message? That everything is a joke? Are is everything a show? When you say nobody really will change a thing is that knowledge from your own personal experience? You obviously have no hope.

[alien autopsy]

yeahwho i thought you put me on ignore?? dont tease me like that

shut up and allow others to have an opinion.

[alien autopsy]

and losing hope in the system is the first step to changing it.

[alien autopsy]

since the system is built upon safeguards and a set of protective measures to disrupt any movement, and hinder any real changes (i.e. slavery, civil rights, womens rights etc..) any real change must come from the outside, work to slide through and around the blockades and scare tactics, until a critical mass is reached.

once a critical mass has realized that change is absolutely necessary, then government will have no choice, for it is in the interest of their own power to compromise.

it is for that reason, that every cause for the sake of freedom has its place...when we all can come to the same conclusion, that it all stems from the same broken system, then the revolution will take place, albeit, untelevised.

[Bob]

yeahwho i thought you put me on ignore?? dont tease me like that

shut up and allow others to have an opinion.

he wasn't responding to you

[alien autopsy]

i know.

[saz]

shut up and allow others to have an opinion.

i find it incredibly ironic that you're telling him to 'shut up and allow others to have an opinion', when meanwhile if others don't agree with your opinions, you become belligerent and hurl insults.

[abcdefz]

From CNN
(http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/31/dems.delegates/index.html#cnnSTCText)


Florida, Michigan get all delegates, but each gets half vote

* Story Highlights
* Committee's compromise leaves Obama ahead of Clinton in delegate count
* Clinton receives 87 votes and Obama 63 votes; Obama is ahead by 178
* Boisterous crowd observes rules committee hearing
* Clinton could appeal decision at convention in Denver in August
* Next Article in Politics »


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After a day of wrangling in front of a sometimes unruly crowd, the Democratic National Committee's rules and
bylaws committee reinstated all of Florida and Michigan's delegates to its party convention, with each getting a half-vote to penalize
the states for moving their primaries earlier than the party had approved.

The move will leave front-runner Sen. Barack Obama's lead over rival Sen. Hillary Clinton intact.

[yeahwho]

Yeah I would just like to take this oppurtunity to say Thank You to both Hillary and Barack for fucking up any unity you thought the democrats may have this election year. That experience and hope message has really brought out the warmth and unity for those of us who thought for an instance we would support you, dumb asses.

At least the republicans had the common decency to unify earlier in the game.

[abcdefz]

It really hasn't mattered to me. It's kind of unfair to try to make someone drop out when the race is still relatively close. Plus it's just
given more and more opportunity to watch Hillary dig herself in deeper and deeper. Especially agreeing that the states should honor
the rules, then do an about-face when it serves her purpose. She's a fucking lawyer, through and through -- the bad kind.

[yeahwho]

It really hasn't mattered to me. It's kind of unfair to try to make someone drop out when the race is still relatively close. Plus it's just
given more and more opportunity to watch Hillary dig herself in deeper and deeper. Especially agreeing that the states should honor
the rules, then do an about-face when it serves her purpose. She's a fucking lawyer, through and through -- the bad kind.

I agree with watching Hillary, do people really support her doing this? I'm still much more enamored with Obama... and actually astounded, no lets see, completely fucking puzzled as to why any registered voter would willingly, happily and obeyingly keep the Bush and Clinton families in charge of their destiny for over twenty fucking years???

wassup wit tat?

[abcdefz]

I usually can't fathom what the fuck the general public is thinking.

[yeahwho]

Bush and Clinton inc.are the feel good presidents. (y)

[RobMoney$]

The only thing I can't fathom is how you relate the Bush and Clinton families in the first place.

Bill Clinton would win this thing in a landslide if he wasn't out of term limits. He was the best President of my lifetime, and one of the greatest of all time.
We would all be lucky to hand over destiny to the man for another 4 years.

[yeahwho]

The only thing I can't fathom is how you relate the Bush and Clinton families in the first place.

Bill Clinton would win this thing in a landslide if he wasn't out of term limits. He was the best President of my lifetime, and one of the greatest of all time.
We would all be lucky to hand over destiny to the man for another 4 years.

fathom? uh, gee, both families have been residing in the White House since uh, hrmmmm, 1989? George H Bush has been hanging around the White House since 1981, as the Vice President for Ronald Reagan.

Are we kinder, gentler enough yet?

[RobMoney$]

So they've all been President therefore all of them are bad, interesting.
It's like relating Hitler and JFK because they were both once leaders of their respective nations.

[yeahwho]

So they've all been President therefore all of them are bad, interesting.
It's like relating Hitler and JFK because they were both once leaders of their respective nations.

Are you daft? I never said that... let me simplify

The common thread has absolutely nothing to do with performance.

Common knowledge says that a starfish will make a better president than George W. Bush.

And nothing against Bill Clinton (http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html), his record stands as is.

I'm just saying, I actually do believe the USA has even higher standards and more qualified citizens in it's gene pool to be the president than these two families. We can do it! Without a Clinton or Bush in the White House.

[RobMoney$]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I just think it's way off base to lump Clinton in with the Bushs'.

You're not so much for Obama, just anti-Clinton, right?

Do you have an actual reason you hate the Clintons', or is it just because they once resided at the White House? Because that seems like a pretty dumb reason not to vote for someone.

[yeahwho]

So by putting up a link on that response which only praises Bill Clinton (http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html) you've surmised I'm anti-Clinton?

You cwever wabbit, why rascal, you've twicked me again, I'm pwetty fwucked up.

To be honest with you, your making 0 sense.

Bush, Clinton, Bush all held POTUS position and have resided at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I cannot make the comparison any clearer.

Read my lips, not bout performance, bout the job description and residence. I'm not a radical who is way off base here.

[alien autopsy]

Yeah I would just like to take this oppurtunity to say Thank You to both Hillary and Barack for fucking up any unity you thought the democrats may have this election year. That experience and hope message has really brought out the warmth and unity for those of us who thought for an instance we would support you, dumb asses.

At least the republicans had the common decency to unify earlier in the game.

ahhh...thats what youa re supposed to say! good job yeahwho! just like how it was naders fault bush was elected president in 2000.