Just a question.....

[NoFenders]

Does anyone take responsability for theirselves anymore???

It seems more and more that people blame blame blame. And they never once blame themselves. What's even more bizzare is that people help people blame other people. It's never their own fault, awlays somebody else, and always something that they had no control over. You want to talk about what's destructing our country more so than war,economy, etc, it's society and what it feels it's owed.

I grew up with a phrase that was locked into my head from the first day I could leave the house.

"You are your only problem you will ever have, and you are the only solution."

Imagine if people actually lived by this. We'd most certainly live a much easier way of life. There wouldn't be so much confusion, and we'd all know exactly who we were and who we were dealing with. Now it's all pushed to the next guy, and nothing ever gets solved.

Anyone here feel they're owed anything from life or our gov??? If so, why can't you just take care of it??

:cool:

[MC Moot]

I like to think I'm highly accountable for my own state of being...having said that I serve a client base that often feels a massive sense of entitlement...that society is responsible for their rough breaks,ill woes and socio economic disposition...particularily in a thriving economic environment,where wealth is being accumulated and reflected throughout the community...it's discouraging...especially amongst the aboriginal population who are afforded incredible leveling opportunity's and chronically fail to step up and make use of said benefits...

[abcdefz]

I have an unfortunate sense of entitlement, I'm afraid. I don't agree with it intellectually at all, but I know I do. I got truly fucked over as
far as childhood goes and even though I believe I'm responsible for my own thoughts and actions, I've spent decades kicking against a die
that was cast a very long time ago, and nothing's worked. So I kind of feel like, fuck this, I'll take my ball and go home but I want some
compensation for being forced into this in the first place.

I know it's wrong and I've done a lot of hard work on it, but it hasn't budged.

[ms.peachy]

Lots of, if not most, people genuinely hold themselves accountable. And some of them also realise that you don't empower other people to take control of their lives by beating them up over the poor choices they've made, but by emphasising to them their own inherent worth and dignity, and by providing guidance instead of heaping judgement.

[MC Moot]

I have an unfortunate sense of entitlement, I'm afraid. I don't agree with it intellectually at all, but I know I do. I got truly fucked over as
far as childhood goes and even though I believe I'm responsible for my own thoughts and actions, I've spent decades kicking against a die
that was cast a very long time ago, and nothing's worked. So I kind of feel like, fuck this, I'll take my ball and go home but I want some
compensation for being forced into this in the first place.

I know it's wrong and I've done a lot of hard work on it, but it hasn't budged.

You know I felt the same way from my early teens to my mid-twenty's...a child of nasty divorce soon after to lose a parent to cancer and then deal with abandonment or neglect for many years...and then I had the good fortune of meeting and spending about 90mins with Henry Rollins and he said a few things that have alway's stuck with me ever since..."what are you gonna do get a job at Pizza Hut or go out and be awesome?"...I chose the latter and ever since have reflected on my own accomplishments,my fortitude and my ability to overcome...these are points of pride that I'm sure you can credit ya bad self with A-Z...(y)

[insertnamehere]

I agree that people LOVE to feel like everything is everyone else's fault. This is why I'm good in customer service. I've found that if I apologize for anything and everything customers stay happy. I'm good at sounding genuinely remorseful for things that I know damn well aren't my fault. If you imply that anything is someone's fault, even if it's not a big deal at all, they get kind of pissy about it. Blame things on yourself a lot and no one will get mad at you.

[NoFenders]

I have an unfortunate sense of entitlement, I'm afraid. I don't agree with it intellectually at all, but I know I do. I got truly fucked over as
far as childhood goes and even though I believe I'm responsible for my own thoughts and actions, I've spent decades kicking against a die
that was cast a very long time ago, and nothing's worked. So I kind of feel like, fuck this, I'll take my ball and go home but I want some
compensation for being forced into this in the first place.

I know it's wrong and I've done a lot of hard work on it, but it hasn't budged.

Thanks for the honesty. It will budge if you piss yourself off enough.

:cool:

[Yetra Flam]

i always overcompensate for this lack of collective sense of responsibility for taking responsibility for things that aren't even my fault. i never fail to make myself feel guilty

[NoFenders]

Lots of, if not most, people genuinely hold themselves accountable. And some of them also realise that you don't empower other people to take control of their lives by beating them up over the poor choices they've made, but by emphasising to them their own inherent worth and dignity, and by providing guidance instead of heaping judgement.

I don't belive for one second that most people hold themsleves accountable.

Besides, your position is from another thread. You didn't answer my question. Unless your answer is that there's no problem with society and everyone takes care of themsleves.

:cool:

[NoFenders]

I agree that people LOVE to feel like everything is everyone else's fault. This is why I'm good in customer service. I've found that if I apologize for anything and everything customers stay happy. I'm good at sounding genuinely remorseful for things that I know damn well aren't my fault. If you imply that anything is someone's fault, even if it's not a big deal at all, they get kind of pissy about it. Blame things on yourself a lot and no one will get mad at you.

Fucking awesome!!! I do the same thing in my business, but that's mostly just to get them out the door. In the back of my head I'm saying "It's your own damn fault!"

:cool:

[abcdefz]

Thanks for the honesty. It will budge if you piss yourself off enough.

:cool:



You can only get up off the mat so many times.

[insertnamehere]

I often feel very "yessuh, sorry suh, yess'm" while doing this, but it just makes my job easier in general.

But I agree with Yetra that I often actually feel accountable for things that aren't my fault as well. I like to ensure that everything runs smoothly and that everyone around me is happy and if that falls through I feel somewhat at fault.

example: two of my good friends were dating for over a year. They recently broke up, and I feel like I could have somehow helped. I know that it's not actually true. Still though, I don't want either of them to be unhappy.

[BangkokB]

When I was in my 20's I fucked up and ended up homeless. I had to move back in with my parents. When they asked what happened I told them that I had no one to blame but myself.

My Dad told me that he appreciated my taking the blame solely. That means more to me today some 15 years later than it did then and the older I get the more that means to me. Not to sound like someone smoking a pipe wearing a twead jacket with elbow patches but I believe, much like my father, that anyone that accepts their own actions for their own fuck up are far and few between.

[NoFenders]

Now I feel you deserve to use that avatar. Well said!

:cool:

[Jitters]

It's not too often that I seriously mess something up. I like to procrastinate like everybody else but most of the time I'll admit that I messed up and try to fix it if that's possible.

[ms.peachy]

I don't belive for one second that most people hold themsleves accountable.

Besides, your position is from another thread. You didn't answer my question. Unless your answer is that there's no problem with society and everyone takes care of themsleves.

:cool:

I did answer, and my position is relevant. I think there are lots of problems with society, but I also feel that in the main, although everyone loves to have a good gripe now and again, the majority of people do hold themselves accountable for their own lives and just go on about their business doing so, because it's the right thing to do, and don't waste lots of time half spraining their arms reaching around patting themselves on the back for doing it.

[yeahwho]

When I needed help in a serious way because of my own fucking up, people were there for me, without judgment. Total strangers helping me.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and they were more than grateful I actually did take their help. As I am forever eternally grateful for the help.

Do something nice for somebody and don't get caught.

[Bob]

i don't know if looking out for yourself is enough to make society a good place to live. people have to look out for each other, too. if they don't, then all the bootstraps in the world aren't going to be enough for you to pull yourself up unless the government protects you.

let's say you're an immigrant. you come to america (legally, just to make this easy) with your wife and 2 kids, no money no connections no education no skills. if everyone's just looking out for themselves, then i'd say your chances of finding a job where you'll be treated fairly without the government or a union telling the employer that they have to treat you fairly are kind of slim. by yourself, you're nobody. if the only jobs you can find pay a dollar an hour, and your only options are to take them or leave them, what are you supposed to do? you can't bargain. not by yourself. if you don't take the job, someone else will. if everyone's just looking out for themselves, they're not going to bother helping you, they're not going to collectivize or anything. too risky. gotta look out for yourself, you're the only one that can solve your problems!

but how do you solve that problem? how do you unstick yourself from that situation without help? and if you do somehow manage to break out of it, how is everyone else supposed to? in a world like that, a lot of people are going to get fucked, it's just not possible for everyone to make it, hard as they might try. maybe you don't have to work 3 shifts at the turd farm, maybe you can break out, but someone's gotta work at the turd farm and without a little help whoever ends up working there is gonna get fucked.

it seems like the experience of the 20th century in the western world was realizing that not everyone is capable of fending for themselves. strong wanna fuck the weak, the weak are gonna get fucked unless someone stops it. i don't think the development of the welfare state in europe and, to some extent, america (but slowly!), was some kind of horrible accident. for the most part, it seems to be working ok over there. better than here, anyway.

i'm not saying people shouldn't take responsibility for themselves and expect the government or someone else to make everything dandy for them. of course not. i'm just saying that it i don't think it's possible, on a grand scale, for everyone to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, their problems are bigger than that. a society based on the idea that everyone should be expected to do that is going to be a bad place, in my opinion, because that just doesn't work.

[hpdrifter]

<3

[jabumbo]

how exactly do you pull yourself up with your bootstraps?

[Bob]

i'm not even clear on what bootstraps are actually, it's just a phrase that i hear libertarians use

anyway i guess a shorter way of saying everything i said up there would be that i agree, yes, people should take responsibility for themselves, and they shouldn't expect or feel entitled to have someone else or the government swoop in and make everything ok without having to make any effort of their own, but to jump from that reasonable belief to advocacy of a government that sits back and does nothing to help people who are suffering is just perverse to me. it's impossible for everyone to make it on their own. there are people out there who work full time and are still homeless. that's not right.

[afronaut]

Anyone here feel they're owed anything from life or our gov??? If so, why can't you just take care of it??

:cool:

Considering the government takes the money I earn and regulates what I can and cannot do on my own private property, yes.

[Dorothy Wood]

I blame myself for a lot of things. I take responsibility. doesn't mean I don't think I should get assistance if I'm in trouble or make a stupid mistake.

I broke my foot 5 years ago in an accident. it completely changed my career path. I am responsible for the choices that led up to me breaking it and the ones after and a lot of them were stupid. but that single incident changed the very nature of the way I live. if I hadn't have gotten help with paying for stuff, or if the hospital didn't wipe out my $20,000 in charges because of my economic status...I'd be fucked. living in a basement in ohio at my mom and former step-dad's house, and they'd probably still be stuck in a horrible marriage because of the situation.


I do agree that people are quick to blame others. and I think entitlement is a problem, but in my experience, the ones who feel the most entitled are the upper middle class. the people who pay me for my expertise and to do things that they can't do themselves, but still treat me like shit. the people who get upset because they really wanted to put up that picture for their cocktail party and this is for their second home and they won't be back in town for a couple of weeks and it's so disappointing and wahhhhh wahhhhhh wahhhhh!


like somehow because the career path they chose to make them rich makes them somehow smarter and better than me. the same people who will be kissing my ass if I make it as an artist. the same people who kiss my ass when I'm at an event and wearing dress clothes.


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SOCIETY!!!!!!!!!


oop, pizza's done! ;)