muppets at glastonbury

[TAFKASB]

I went on UTUBE to read comments about Jay-Z performance. I was amazed to read how some people think he is the best rapper alive and his set was great. Clearly these morons know fuck all about hip-hop and what a good set is. Beasties past glastonbury performance murders him, plus as for a live set...who can top BB? I think Jay-Z is weak as a rapper, media told people he's the best so in turn people buy into that shit..clown is a sell out. He's a damn good businessman, that's it. BB I think are far more respected as artists and what they've bought to hip-hop.

[Kid Presentable]

The ability of the Beastie Boys to rise to a similar challenge and pull it of so well isn't as obvious as one who "knows" about hip-hop might think.

[roosta]

I went on UTUBE to read comments about Jay-Z performance. I was amazed to read how some people think he is the best rapper alive and his set was great. Clearly these morons know fuck all about hip-hop and what a good set is. Beasties past glastonbury performance murders him, plus as for a live set...who can top BB? I think Jay-Z is weak as a rapper, media told people he's the best so in turn people buy into that shit..clown is a sell out. He's a damn good businessman, that's it. BB I think are far more respected as artists and what they've bought to hip-hop.

So anytime anyone, anywhere commends anybody in music we should instantly compare them to the beastie boys and post about it?

[pshabi]

I went on UTUBE to read comments about Jay-Z performance. I was amazed to read how some people think he is the best rapper alive and his set was great. Clearly these morons know fuck all about hip-hop and what a good set is. Beasties past glastonbury performance murders him, plus as for a live set...who can top BB? I think Jay-Z is weak as a rapper, media told people he's the best so in turn people buy into that shit..clown is a sell out. He's a damn good businessman, that's it. BB I think are far more respected as artists and what they've bought to hip-hop.

You got a Noel Galagher poster on your wall, don't you?

Jay-Z is "weak as a rapper?" I'd say rapping is one of his strong suits, but hey, I'm not an expert.

"Clown is a sell out?" Who did he sell out to?

If you grew up wit holes in your zapatos, you'd be celebratin' the minute you was having dough.

I'm like, "fuck critics, you can kiss my whole asshole. If you don't like my lyrics you can press fast forward."

I think he was talkin' to you.

[DrunkenMantis]

Shaq is a great rapper...............lol

[alikat]

mikey likes it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh003Czlx3g)

[pshabi]

Shaq is a great rapper...............lol

Awesome!

Kobe how my ass taste?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

[Guy Incognito]

I went on UTUBE to read comments about Jay-Z performance. I was amazed to read how some people think he is the best rapper alive and his set was great. Clearly these morons know fuck all about hip-hop and what a good set is. Beasties past glastonbury performance murders him, plus as for a live set...who can top BB? I think Jay-Z is weak as a rapper, media told people he's the best so in turn people buy into that shit..clown is a sell out. He's a damn good businessman, that's it. BB I think are far more respected as artists and what they've bought to hip-hop.


I dont like coming in here cos i get shouted at cos i know fuck all about the BB compared to most but i do know what makes a great glastonbury performance cos i have been many times and seen a lot of great stuff there. Admittedly,For the first time in yonks I didnt go and its a massive regret.

The main reason i regret it is cos Jay Z put in one of the greatest gigs that place has seen. Its not even got that much to do with hip hop, its to do with the fact the media, fans and contemporaries set him a massive challenge and he rose to the occasion and served Noel Gallaghers bollocks on toast and entertained, thrilled and suprised a lot of people.

Glastonbury Festival is about seeing the best of all types of music and other stuff and they chose the man to represent Hip hop as a headliner.
Watch this interview with the organiser and tell me if the BBoys meet the criteria Michael Eavis is rambling on about.
http://www.bbc.co.uk//glastonbury/2008//artists/jayz/video3.shtml#emp
No doubt they would have done a great show but they have a broader musical appeal there would not have been the same sort of hype as it was a risky decision by the organisers and its the fact that Jay Z dealt with it all with style and came out with his head held high. It would have just been a big headliner but no story if the Beastie Boys played.
And so what if people who know fuck all thought he was great, dont be such a snob. If Jay Z converted a few people then whats up with that.
The only good thing about your post was the idea of The Muppets at Glastonbury - that would be awesome.
And one more thing , its YOU TUBE.

[dave790]

In all fairness Noel Gallagher didn't make a personal attack on Jay-Z. All that the Oasis-intro did was highlight how many people like Oasis - Wonderwall is meant to be back in the charts this week as a result. Anyway, top performance. I'm not even a huge Jay-Z fan but it looked and sounded great. The only reason such a big deal is being made of it is because of all the 'controversy' beforehand. If he came through well - as most intelligent people who are into music and vaguely know about Glastonbury expected - then he was always bound to be labelled a hip hop god.

Personally, I think Jay-Z has put out far too much trite to warrant such a status, but this isn't about his whole career - it's about a single performace and the inevitable reaction.

[Kid Presentable]

Plus, pound for pound I don't know that the Beastie Boys could do it as well as Jigga did. Their Reading 98 set was phenomenal, but today? Not so sure.


Prove me wrong, kids. Prove me wrong.

[pshabi]

Plus, pound for pound I don't know that the Beastie Boys could do it as well as Jigga did. Their Reading 98 set was phenomenal, but today? Not so sure.

Now, now. The bboys would knock it out the park. They ALWAYS deliver on the biggest stages. I just imagine the Live Earth set, only longer.

See?:)

Still, I don't see how this became a comparison between them and Jay. :confused:

[Kid Presentable]

I think you're reaching, pshabi. But yeah, it's not a comparison. Just saying, it would be interesting to see in the face of Noel Gallagher and the British media speculation what would happen.

[TAFKASB]

You got a Noel Galagher poster on your wall, don't you?

Jay-Z is "weak as a rapper?" I'd say rapping is one of his strong suits, but hey, I'm not an expert.

"Clown is a sell out?" Who did he sell out to?

If you grew up wit holes in your zapatos, you'd be celebratin' the minute you was having dough.

I'm like, "fuck critics, you can kiss my whole asshole. If you don't like my lyrics you can press fast forward."

I think he was talkin' to you.

Don't you have a tv in your house? never seen jay-z adverts on pc's? As for Noel Gallagher..he's a prick. Opinions are like assholes my friend, we all have one...I personally think jay-z is over rated. The reason why I compared BB to him was the fact they are both hip-hop orientated. BB have done glastonbury...did it cause a stir when they were there? no..reason being they are respected as first and formost musicians who take their style and flow in different directions. I'm not say Jay-Z shouldn't have been there but, like most of todays rap artists, nothings new. 50 cent is a classic example of the media buying into his shit and raming down peoples throats on every radio station....bit like jay-z. I never said he was a bad rapper, just a weak one..same ole shit each track..( yes...yes..yes ) at the start of most of his shit. I've been to a few hip-hop gigs in the states...and most are filled with while midde class folk who go out a buy what the media tells them. Hip-Hop today in my opinion, again IN MY Opinion, is rather one dimentional. Don't get me wrong, there are some good artists about , but they only ever make it if the media allows it. Seems they like much of the same shit. I remember a good few years ago when rap artists like De la Soul, Tribe called Quest, Eric B and Rakeem, Public Enemy, Cypress Hill, Arrested Development etc etc when they dropped an album it was different to the next mans..today I feel Hip-Hop has lost it's way to the media, scared of doing something totally different.

[paul jones]

^ that's the best avatar I've ever seen

[TAFKASB]

I dont like coming in here cos i get shouted at cos i know fuck all about the BB compared to most but i do know what makes a great glastonbury performance cos i have been many times and seen a lot of great stuff there. Admittedly,For the first time in yonks I didnt go and its a massive regret.

The main reason i regret it is cos Jay Z put in one of the greatest gigs that place has seen. Its not even got that much to do with hip hop, its to do with the fact the media, fans and contemporaries set him a massive challenge and he rose to the occasion and served Noel Gallaghers bollocks on toast and entertained, thrilled and suprised a lot of people.

Glastonbury Festival is about seeing the best of all types of music and other stuff and they chose the man to represent Hip hop as a headliner.
Watch this interview with the organiser and tell me if the BBoys meet the criteria Michael Eavis is rambling on about.
http://www.bbc.co.uk//glastonbury/2008//artists/jayz/video3.shtml#emp
No doubt they would have done a great show but they have a broader musical appeal there would not have been the same sort of hype as it was a risky decision by the organisers and its the fact that Jay Z dealt with it all with style and came out with his head held high. It would have just been a big headliner but no story if the Beastie Boys played.
And so what if people who know fuck all thought he was great, dont be such a snob. If Jay Z converted a few people then whats up with that.
The only good thing about your post was the idea of The Muppets at Glastonbury - that would be awesome.
And one more thing , its YOU TUBE.

Prick don't get it

[Guy Incognito]

Prick don't get it

cheeky fucking wanker.

I get you are an opinionated nobcheese who didnt have an answer to what i had to say and came back with the above lame post.

[TAFKASB]

cheeky fucking wanker.

I get you are an opinionated nobcheese who didnt have an answer to what i had to say and came back with the above lame post.

You're probably a northern twat who's real name is auther blackpudding. I gave an opinion at the top of this thread, and added futher to it later down. How old are ya? Been a long time fan and seen many better acts than Jay-Z in the last 24 years. So Mr Blackpudding, stop making a twat of ya self

[Guy Incognito]

You're probably a northern twat who's real name is auther blackpudding. I gave an opinion at the top of this thread, and added futher to it later down. How old are ya? Been a long time fan and seen many better acts than Jay-Z in the last 24 years. So Mr Blackpudding, stop making a twat of ya self

You might have seen better acts in the last 24 years and thats your opinion but dont call people a prick for expressing theirs.

Yes you did state an opinion before my post but you quoted my post and all you did was call me a prick. I still have yet to get a decent adult response from you about my earlier point.

The point i was trying to make was that it didnt matter about if he was the best hip hop act, it was that he rose to the occasion. Granted it was the media that built it up but he convinced a lot of people that he deserved to headline such a big festival. If you dont think Jay Z is that good then dont watch him and dont have a go at people who do or people who were impressed by him even tho they arent hip hop fans. Thats not on.

[pshabi]

I've been to a few hip-hop gigs in the states...and most are filled with while midde class folk who go out a buy what the media tells them.

Sooo, presumably, they were at a show that the media told them to go to. Why were you there?

Oh, and you brought up Arrested Development. WTF? Great argument. They couldn't have been more mainstream/media friendly than they were with that first album. Did they record others? Not saying they're shit, but they came up in an argument about Jay Z sucking, lol.

[dave790]

Plus, pound for pound I don't know that the Beastie Boys could do it as well as Jigga did. Their Reading 98 set was phenomenal, but today? Not so sure.

I think a Gala-type show would go down really well, but whether they could pull it off as headliners is another thing. Reading 98 was top drawer. It's interesting though...apparently that crowd was less receptive to the instrumentals. I think a Glastonbury audience would be more so, but less into the hardcore, and vice versa for Reading. They are different types of festivals.

I think the eclectic mix would be great at Glastonbury.

[TAFKASB]

Sooo, presumably, they were at a show that the media told them to go to. Why were you there?

Oh, and you brought up Arrested Development. WTF? Great argument. They couldn't have been more mainstream/media friendly than they were with that first album. Did they record others? Not saying they're shit, but they came up in an argument about Jay Z sucking, lol.

You really are a fuckwit aren't you? Arrested Development were mainstream yes..but how different was their sound to others? Understand what I'm saying? Jay-Z to me...again fuckwit..TO ME, brings nothing new to hip-hop. Also, as for shows that I've seen where the audience is largely made up of white middle class media folk...The girl who I was living with there was a hip-hop head, get the picture? Nothing wrong with mainstream, as long as it's different. Remember why you love Beastie Boys...DIFFERENT, not The Game, 50Cent etc etc..fucking same lyrics, much the same sound.

[Guy Incognito]

You really are a fuckwit aren't you? Arrested Development were mainstream yes..but how different was their sound to others? Understand what I'm saying? Jay-Z to me...again fuckwit..TO ME, brings nothing new to hip-hop. Also, as for shows that I've seen where the audience is largely made up of white middle class media folk...The girl who I was living with there was a hip-hop head, get the picture? Nothing wrong with mainstream, as long as it's different. Remember why you love Beastie Boys...DIFFERENT, not The Game, 50Cent etc etc..fucking same lyrics, much the same sound.


Dude, i think you need to stop thinking you are some sort of hip hop elitist and start thinking that you might be wrong.
From what i remember Jay Z used at least part of tracks from the following:

Rehab
I Want You Back
SMack My Bitch Up
American Boy
Back In Black(ACDC)
Sunday Bloody Sunday
Punjabi MC
and probably more i cant remember, thats hardly similar sounding stuff is it.
It might not have been your cup of tea but you need to appreciate that it was a lot of other peoples including some who had never experienced a rap show before.

[Lex Diamonds]

The Beastie Boys:


White middle class
Grew up in Manhattan
Youth spent in trendy clubs playing pranks on "squares"
Known for goofy, unthreatening positive music and light hearted self-deprecation




Jay-Z:


Black single mother upbringing
Raised in the notoriously dangerous Marcy projects in BK
Youth spent selling cocaine and watching people get shot
Known for his "swagger", songs about the gangsta lifestyle and macho posturing




You are a Grade A moron if you think the two can be compared at ANYTHING, let alone their stage shows. Stick to something you know about, like hip-hop being "one dimentional"... good one chump.

[gbsuey]

i'm pretty much 100% certain that all of us here-it being the bbmb and all- would much rather see the beasties than most other acts. i certainly take no part in other message boards.
but that doesn't mean everyone remotely associated with the same genre(or even any completely different type of music) is shit and should never be hyped up. i'm a bit bewildered by this thread-all i'm saying is- i think Jay-Z did a good job but i,like most of us here i expect, would probably have 20x more love for the bb's

[YoungRemy]

you people are hard-core

[spacemac9000]

Yo!

i dont get it ?

are you saying that you cant compare musicians or or any other artists or talent unless the people have the same exact background and/or upbringing ???

and just so you know i was born and raised in BK ny and I happen to know a thing or two about the projects ... so lets not make this about street cred or something unrelated to the post

the way I see it is you can compare any rapper to any other rapper if you wish too ... thats where upringing comes into play - if its incorporated into how they rap ...

i know some long island suburb rap groups like public enemy or the nice part of queens Run DMC - not to say that they aint hard but just saying ..

[camo]

You're probably a northern twat who's real name is auther blackpudding. I gave an opinion at the top of this thread, and added futher to it later down. How old are ya? Been a long time fan and seen many better acts than Jay-Z in the last 24 years. So Mr Blackpudding, stop making a twat of ya self

Yeah guy stop being a twat like um errr ^him^

[Guy Incognito]

Yo!

i dont get it ?

are you saying that you cant compare musicians or or any other artists or talent unless the people have the same exact background and/or upbringing ???

and just so you know i was born and raised in BK ny and I happen to know a thing or two about the projects ... so lets not make this about street cred or something unrelated to the post

the way I see it is you can compare any rapper to any other rapper if you wish too ... thats where upringing comes into play - if its incorporated into how they rap ...

i know some long island suburb rap groups like public enemy or the nice part of queens Run DMC - not to say that they aint hard but just saying ..

Fair point. I wasnt comparing backgrounds at all. I know others were but i think that was in response to a point that BBoys were "more hip hop" than jay. Its more comparing reputations and perceptions of a glasto crowd that i was whingeing about.

[BMD]

Personally I think Jay-Z is a great emcee. He's got a good flow and is clearly spoken. I got bored with him because he came out with a new album every year for a while but his skills themselves are top shelf.

Speaking of sell outs, I saw a commercial yesterday with 50 cent selling vitamin water?!? Give me a break. I never understood his mass appeal, he can barely talk let alone rap. Another one I dont get is Lil Wayne, his voice sounds like a 14yr old male hitting puberty. Maybe its because Im 28. Maybe if I were 16 yrs old he'd be the shit. Just sayin...

[Guy Incognito]

Yeah guy stop being a twat like um errr ^him^

indeed but if you actually check his avatar he's a wanker.

[Guy Incognito]

Personally I think Jay-Z is a great emcee. He's got a good flow and is clearly spoken. I got bored with him because he came out with a new album every year for a while but his skills themselves are top shelf.

.


Damn that hardworking prolific rapper.:rolleyes:

[bigblu89]

Personally I think Jay-Z is a great emcee. He's got a good flow and is clearly spoken. I got bored with him because he came out with a new album every year for a while but his skills themselves are top shelf.

Speaking of sell outs, I saw a commercial yesterday with 50 cent selling vitamin water?!? Give me a break. I never understood his mass appeal, he can barely talk let alone rap. Another one I dont get is Lil Wayne, his voice sounds like a 14yr old male hitting puberty. Maybe its because Im 28. Maybe if I were 16 yrs old he'd be the shit. Just sayin...

While I'm not fan of his, I wouldn't call 50 Cent a sellout because he's in the Vitamin Water commercials. Back in 04, he bought a large stake of the company as an investment, and amde like $400 million when they sold it to Coca-Cola.

[TAFKASB]

I can see why I don't post on here that often, you say something, or give an opinion that people don't like and ya get slamed. I'll repeat it for the daft lads in here. All I said is Jay-Z is no different to any other BLACK rapper who's from the " getto". He brings nothing new to the table. A safe bet rapper for the media to love. I started this thread by saying " how can anyone call him the best rapper alive" that in itself is a joke. Fact is I CAN COMPARE Beastie Boys to him by the very fact they're hip-hop. Think about one of the main reasons you like BB, because they're different? Not like the next white rapper? Chop and change their styles and sounds? Some twat said in reponse, you can't compare BB cause they're white middle class etc etc. I aint no hip-hop guru, but since 16 years of age, some 24 years ago...been to many pure hip-hop joints, listened to many good and bad rappers and hung out with some top hip-hop promoters, and one thing you'll forever hear is hip-hop today is one dimentional! too much of the same. I hate the guy, but even Westwood was saying hip-hop is crying out for something totally new, another direction. BTW, don't hate on me if ya don't know me. Call me a wanker by all means, but cause my views differ from your does not mean I know shit and you do!

[TAFKASB]

:D

[TAFKASB]

The Beastie Boys:


White middle class
Grew up in Manhattan
Youth spent in trendy clubs playing pranks on "squares"
Known for goofy, unthreatening positive music and light hearted self-deprecation




Jay-Z:


Black single mother upbringing
Raised in the notoriously dangerous Marcy projects in BK
Youth spent selling cocaine and watching people get shot
Known for his "swagger", songs about the gangsta lifestyle and macho posturing




You are a Grade A moron if you think the two can be compared at ANYTHING, let alone their stage shows. Stick to something you know about, like hip-hop being "one dimentional"... good one chump.

Fuck me...the list you wrote for Jay-Z could refer to most black hip-hop artists today....Chav

[Kid Presentable]

haha

[Guy Incognito]

I can see why I don't post on here that often, you say something, or give an opinion that people don't like and ya get slamed. I'll repeat it for the daft lads in here. All I said is Jay-Z is no different to any other BLACK rapper who's from the " getto". He brings nothing new to the table. A safe bet rapper for the media to love. I started this thread by saying " how can anyone call him the best rapper alive" that in itself is a joke. Fact is I CAN COMPARE Beastie Boys to him by the very fact they're hip-hop. Think about one of the main reasons you like BB, because they're different? Not like the next white rapper? Chop and change their styles and sounds? Some twat said in reponse, you can't compare BB cause they're white middle class etc etc. I aint no hip-hop guru, but since 16 years of age, some 24 years ago...been to many pure hip-hop joints, listened to many good and bad rappers and hung out with some top hip-hop promoters, and one thing you'll forever hear is hip-hop today is one dimentional! too much of the same. I hate the guy, but even Westwood was saying hip-hop is crying out for something totally new, another direction. BTW, don't hate on me if ya don't know me. Call me a wanker by all means, but cause my views differ from your does not mean I know shit and you do!

First of all, the point i originally made was that Glasto organisers chose Jay Z for their own reasons which is why i included that Eavis interview. Granted they might be slightly misguided reasons but if you listen to what Eavis said they wanted to choose a leading Black rapper to represent Hip hop as a headliner.

I really dont think the BEastie Boys met their criteria and I wasnt criticizing the BBoys ability to deliver a decent show, i was merely stating that Jay Z met the challenge and made the organisers more than happy with their choice.

If you have a problem with Jay Z playing Glasto then write to Michael and EMily Eavis. Dont moan when people disagree with you.

Secondly, please dont whinge about getting called names when all i did was disagree with your original post with frank reasons and no abusiveness and all i got back from you was you calling me a prick and then start having a go at where i am from. That was only going to result in me taking similar action.
Throughout this thread you have called people pricks, wankers, fuckwits when all they have done is disagree with you. If you cant take it luv then dont give it.
Thanks for playing.

[TAFKASB]

I can take shit mr blackpudding..no probs at being called a wanker etc. I guess my mistake was thinking others might get what I'm saying ( still seems most don't ) I have not had a problem with Jay-Z playing at Glastonbury, pretty good they dared to do something different. My gripe right at the top of this thread was how on earth anyone in their mind think that Jay-Z is the best rapper alive...fucking amazing statement by anyone. The reason BB were mentioned is the very fact they are different, not the best rappers in the world etc. My point was Jay-Z has been blown up by the media to be the God of hip-hop. I take stock of what people say in here, I agree with most. But for the love of all things right, try to understand where I'm coming from. Like I said, I aint no hip-hop guru, but I've seen enough acts over the last few years to know if ya face and image fits what the public want..fuck the rest. Again, I'll say it..Jay-Z isn't a bad rapper, just that IMO he brings nothing new to hip-hop, nothing ground breaking. I believe to claim to be the best, create something new and fresh.

[Guy Incognito]

. The reason BB were mentioned is the very fact they are different, not the best rappers in the world etc. My point was Jay-Z has been blown up by the media to be the God of hip-hop. I take stock of what people say in here, I agree with most. But for the love of all things right, try to understand where I'm coming from. Like I said, I aint no hip-hop guru, but I've seen enough acts over the last few years to know if ya face and image fits what the public want..fuck the rest. Again, I'll say it..Jay-Z isn't a bad rapper, just that IMO he brings nothing new to hip-hop, nothing ground breaking. I believe to claim to be the best, create something new and fresh.


You also originally said that the BBoys performance murders Jay Z and thats what i was disagreeing with. I was saying they couldnt be compared and also that Jay Z gave a great show and i doubted that as good as it would be that BBoys headlining would have had the same impact.
I doubt you would be happy until we all turn round and say BBoys are the greatest and the best representation of hip hop there is.Which they arent, i mean being different is great and that is a strength of theirs but knocking out an album of instrumentals is hardly a tru reflection of hip hop. Imagine if eavis had booked them to headline and they did a "Mix Up" Set, there would have been a fucking riot.

[easy 3]

I can see where you're coming from TAFKSB - I generally find Jay Z a bit over-rated, I can't relate much to a lot of his attitude and subject matter and only have a couple of his records that I enjoy.

I remember in about 95ish (or there-abouts) Westwood started playing Jay Z, Lil Kim and Juniour Mafia type stuff in very heavy rotation (it was as if money were changing hands behind the scenes or something crazy like that - lol) same shit every show basically - Westwood had been playing a good, credible show for years before that but I quite quickly lost interest around this time (I swear he played 'Ain't no Ni**a' about 4 times in one 3 hour show or some shit like that!?) - hip hop always had a bit of a bragadocious, materialistic side but I simply couldn't identify with this new wave of Glamour-Crime lifestyle stuff (and I still think a lot of people that got into that stuff were playing a role, jumping on a bandwagon and buying into a lifestyle that had nothing to do with them - and I think society has basically been harmed by this - everyone on my local bus currently thinks their some kind of 'big dawg' and are increasingly acquiring the 'tools' to live that life - yes that's right kids are shooting and stabbing each other - oh joy!) Currently a lot of people's entire perception of hip hop and it's fans is that it's an ego-mad, evil, criminal fraternity - whatever happened to party-people?

I've got nothing hugely against Jay Z. He is lyrically skilled and it was seeing him live (in 97 supporting the Fugees) that won me over to respecting him more as an artist - but he is currently being put on some kind of pedestal as a hip hop god, when I don't think he's the MOST skilled (or original) artist out there, just a very shrewd business man, and , as I say, his lifestyle is very different to mine - I can't front.

Ultimately, between the heated posting going on here, the Noel Gallagher thing and media bullshit he's clearly been a controversial choice and whilst he's not really my cup of tea - he probably does represent what hip hop has become in 2008 whether I'm comfortable with that or not.

Ummm, I think I've lost the thread of this argument somewhere? - I personally find the Beasties more interesting live and wish hip hop on the whole could re-find some of the diversity that I used to find so refreshing.
I know there is interesting stuff out there - but there's a lot of shit floating on the surface and I'm not interested in being a fake gangster.

[easy 3]

Imagine if eavis had booked them to headline and they did a "Mix Up" Set, there would have been a fucking riot. - true say! (and broadly speaking, playing their 'Jazz Odyssey' set as a headliner probably wouldn't have done the Beasties many favours either)

ALSO, I have to agree with that other dude - this is one of the most disappointing threads ever - I mean just imagine the Muppets headlining Glasto! - full lightbulb-covered arches stage set and everything - that's a vision of beauty right there!

[TAFKASB]

Point taken. These days BB don't hold the same impact as years gone by. Glastonbury is very youthful. Not that BB don't appeal to youth, as on here it clearly does. I'd say 95% of BB albums sold now are to die hard fans who probably followed their entire career. Yes The Mix up set would have caused a riot as it wasn't created for mainstream appeal, done more out of love for what they want to do. I remember seeing BB at glastonbury and reading, the latter probably being the best I've seen them live. I know BB aren't the best rappers, again guy, read past comments here. Point I was making is BB stand for being original and creative. Jay Z could be any black dude from the ghetto who sold drugs, single parent family etc etc. I remember when 50 cent dropped his first album and everyone was banging on how great he was, which made me laugh. I guess for me hip-hop now is dead due to over pushing the same crap out year in year out. I'd rather go and see a youthful hungry rapper who's got the balls to be different.

[Guy Incognito]

Point taken. These days BB don't hold the same impact as years gone by. Glastonbury is very youthful. Not that BB don't appeal to youth, as on here it clearly does. I'd say 95% of BB albums sold now are to die hard fans who probably followed their entire career. Yes The Mix up set would have caused a riot as it wasn't created for mainstream appeal, done more out of love for what they want to do. I remember seeing BB at glastonbury and reading, the latter probably being the best I've seen them live. I know BB aren't the best rappers, again guy, read past comments here. Point I was making is BB stand for being original and creative. Jay Z could be any black dude from the ghetto who sold drugs, single parent family etc etc. I remember when 50 cent dropped his first album and everyone was banging on how great he was, which made me laugh. I guess for me hip-hop now is dead due to over pushing the same crap out year in year out. I'd rather go and see a youthful hungry rapper who's got the balls to be different.

I see what you are getting at but i was surprised at the set Jay put out - wasnt expecting the variety of samples and sounds, i dont think he would have done the same set at one of his own gigs. It would have been a safer bet for eavis to book the beasties as they have a wider appeal, i think they just wanted to make a statement and picking Jay did that. I saw De La there a few years ago and no one batted an eyelid.
Oh and i am not having a go but i think Hip hop isnt dead its just evolved but into something that old schoolers arent fond of. I think you have to face the fact you are getting old!

[TAFKASB]

I can see where you're coming from TAFKSB - I generally find Jay Z a bit over-rated, I can't relate much to a lot of his attitude and subject matter and only have a couple of his records that I enjoy.

I remember in about 95ish (or there-abouts) Westwood started playing Jay Z, Lil Kim and Juniour Mafia type stuff in very heavy rotation (it was as if money were changing hands behind the scenes or something crazy like that - lol) same shit every show basically - Westwood had been playing a good, credible show for years before that but I quite quickly lost interest around this time (I swear he played 'Ain't no Ni**a' about 4 times in one 3 hour show or some shit like that!?) - hip hop always had a bit of a bragadocious, materialistic side but I simply couldn't identify with this new wave of Glamour-Crime lifestyle stuff (and I still think a lot of people that got into that stuff were playing a role, jumping on a bandwagon and buying into a lifestyle that had nothing to do with them - and I think society has basically been harmed by this - everyone on my local bus currently thinks their some kind of 'big dawg' and are increasingly acquiring the 'tools' to live that life - yes that's right kids are shooting and stabbing each other - oh joy!) Currently a lot of people's entire perception of hip hop and it's fans is that it's an ego-mad, evil, criminal fraternity - whatever happened to party-people?

I've got nothing hugely against Jay Z. He is lyrically skilled and it was seeing him live (in 97 supporting the Fugees) that won me over to respecting him more as an artist - but he is currently being put on some kind of pedestal as a hip hop god, when I don't think he's the MOST skilled (or original) artist out there, just a very shrewd business man, and , as I say, his lifestyle is very different to mine - I can't front.

Ultimately, between the heated posting going on here, the Noel Gallagher thing and media bullshit he's clearly been a controversial choice and whilst he's not really my cup of tea - he probably does represent what hip hop has become in 2008 whether I'm comfortable with that or not.

Ummm, I think I've lost the thread of this argument somewhere? - I personally find the Beasties more interesting live and wish hip hop on the whole could re-find some of the diversity that I used to find so refreshing.
I know there is interesting stuff out there - but there's a lot of shit floating on the surface and I'm not interested in being a fake gangster.

AT LAST!! Someone who talks sense. I guess this guy here is more intelligent than I at putting a point across, but this is what I'm talking about!

[TAFKASB]

I see what you are getting at but i was surprised at the set Jay put out - wasnt expecting the variety of samples and sounds, i dont think he would have done the same set at one of his own gigs. It would have been a safer bet for eavis to book the beasties as they have a wider appeal, i think they just wanted to make a statement and picking Jay did that. I saw De La there a few years ago and no one batted an eyelid.
Oh and i am not having a go but i think Hip hop isnt dead its just evolved but into something that old schoolers arent fond of. I think you have to face the fact you are getting old!

Seems we now have hit some common ground. I respect what you've said, and agree with you in some points. Pity ya don't live closer, be good to have a beer and discuss stuff. Always good to have a heated arguement. Respect to you dude, maybe I am getting old and the way hip-hop has gone isn't my bag. :o

[Guy Incognito]

Seems we now have hit some common ground. I respect what you've said, and agree with you in some points. Pity ya don't live closer, be good to have a beer and discuss stuff. Always good to have a heated arguement. Respect to you dude, maybe I am getting old and the way hip-hop has gone isn't my bag. :o

No worries man, i think we both lost it for a bit there but never mind.(y)

The thing about changing hip hop is that some acts like 50 cent come across like they havent appreciated where hip hop came from and are all about le benjamin and sponsorship etc and that hip hop is a way to make fat cash whereas acts like the beastie boys have made fat cash but always nodded to the early days when it was just a form of expression really.
I am not sure everyone will see it that way, although i do think Jay Z has been around long enough to be a bit more respectful of the old days and early influences. Rick Rubin producin 99 problems for example.

But i think i am getting out of my depth on this one! I dont mess with hip hop talk on here much cos there are far more knowledgable people on here who will tell me to stop talking shite. I am still buzzing from jay's performance and was shocked that someone appeared critical, thats all.

One thing i think everyone in this thread can agree on is that The muppets really should play Glastonbury!

[Lex Diamonds]

Fuck me...the list you wrote for Jay-Z could refer to most black hip-hop artists today....Chav
Oh I see you're one of those people who has to label everything with stereotypes. Good luck with that, Liberace.

[Kid Presentable]

Oh I see you're one of those people who has to label everything with stereotypes. Good luck with that, Liberace.

Explain this 'Liberace' thing you keep using. Is it non-stereotypical?

[pshabi]

I can see why I don't post on here that often, you say something, or give an opinion that people don't like and ya get slamed.

Or....

You give an opinion people don't agree with, they argue against it (in a discussion forum! Who'da thunk it! Bastids!!!) and then you start namecalling.

That pretty much sums it up.

[Lex Diamonds]

Explain this 'Liberace' thing you keep using. Is it non-stereotypical?
They're both white and gay.

[TAFKASB]

Oh I see you're one of those people who has to label everything with stereotypes. Good luck with that, Liberace.

My dear friend, maybe you should stop doing drugs for a couple of days so you can gain a little clarity. It isn't myself being stereotypical....it just seems to me as a rap artist, you only seem to get respect if you've lived the hard life, drugs, single parent family, from the projects, been shot at god knows how many times ( 50 cent ) and boy, how kids loved him for that. " gangsta man, da fidy ". I aint geting into another arguement again, it's tiring. I had a good discussion with another guy, yes I resorted to names etc, but still he had valid points, and as it turned out, he respected my views. Don't blame me for how rap artists are pigeon holed, that's the media...again! Why do you think it's rare that a white guy gets taken seriously? Yes there have been a couple in recent years, but on the whole the public don't tend to buy into it.

[TAFKASB]

Or....

You give an opinion people don't agree with, they argue against it (in a discussion forum! Who'da thunk it! Bastids!!!) and then you start namecalling.

That pretty much sums it up.

Again...I'm pretty bummed out I resorted to that. Maybe my opinion was to strong on this. No offence intended.

[pshabi]

Again...I'm pretty bummed out I resorted to that. Maybe my opinion was to strong on this. No offence intended.

Cool, man. Respect.

[Lex Diamonds]

My dear friend, maybe you should stop doing drugs for a couple of days so you can gain a little clarity. It isn't myself being stereotypical....it just seems to me as a rap artist, you only seem to get respect if you've lived the hard life, drugs, single parent family, from the projects, been shot at god knows how many times ( 50 cent ) and boy, how kids loved him for that. " gangsta man, da fidy ". I aint geting into another arguement again, it's tiring. I had a good discussion with another guy, yes I resorted to names etc, but still he had valid points, and as it turned out, he respected my views. Don't blame me for how rap artists are pigeon holed, that's the media...again! Why do you think it's rare that a white guy gets taken seriously? Yes there have been a couple in recent years, but on the whole the public don't tend to buy into it.
Maybe you need to do more drugs? Nobody's talking about the shitty mainstream American hip-hop, we're talking about quality music and Glastonbury, two things that have once again and always been proven synonymous. Though he's a hero of mine, Noel got it wrong and he's since admitted that, as well as his massive respect for Iceberg Slim.

[TAFKASB]

Maybe you need to do more drugs? Nobody's talking about the shitty mainstream American hip-hop, we're talking about quality music and Glastonbury, two things that have once again and always been proven synonymous. Though he's a hero of mine, Noel got it wrong and he's since admitted that, as well as his massive respect for Iceberg Slim.

I really didn't want to carry this on, and trust me, I don't give a shit about you having the last word on this, I'll just let other members figure things out.
You earlier pointed out you can't compare BB to Jay-Z...think you're wrong on that, both hip-hop related artists. You don't have to have a "gangsta" background to be compared with anyone. It's like me saying " I'm from a rich family, been tought martial arts all my life, but some guy from the ghetto is tougher cause he's from da streets" If ya tough ya tough, ya know? When I refered to Jay-Z being no different, I meant the ghetto upbring ( which you bought up ) Again, if you dive into hip-hops big players, American or British, it seems you're only taken seriously if you're from the ghetto ( as most gangsta rap is about street life and shit ) . White artists some how aren't taken as serious. Yes Noel got it wrong, Jay-Z rammed words right down critcs throats, but the very top of this thread started with me saying This self proclaimed crap about being the best hip-hop artist alive is far from right ( IMO ). I think, and it's probably cause I'm getting old, that he seems no different to the next hip-hop star. Nothing new. Like I said, I'm 40...been around since hip-hop really kicked off, and for me, I don't like how hip-hops gone. 70's and 80's hip-hop acts seem so very different from one another. Try not to move away from what I originally started off saying. Peace.

[Lex Diamonds]

Jay-Z is one of the most talented rappers since Rakim. Most people in hip-hop acknowledge this, no matter how old they are. And nobody gets that much respect just talking about guns, money and bitches. He has depth and I think a lot of people at Glastonbury realised that for the first time.

I'm just saying you seem to have some strange prejudices which don't really fit with being a hip-hop fan.


ps
Some of the biggest UK rappers aren't ghetto at all. Jehst for instance, or Example who even made a song about the whole prejudice thing. Have a listen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvCd1Xq0Au4), it's quite relevant.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

I've been to a few hip-hop gigs in the states...and most are filled with while midde class folk who go out a buy what the media tells them.

Yeah, if you go to a Roots, Cypres Hill, or a De La concert you will see a lot of middle class white people, but a Jay-Z show is where you will find lots and lots of black folks. It also depends on where you are in the States. Go see a the latest hot rapper in Atlanta or Oakland.

I agree with you that Jay Z is a little overratted, but he's not overrated like 50 Cent or DMX were. And just because it doesn't appeal to you (and you have to admit that dudes from England, white black or whatever, don't get to call the authoritative shots on what's hip hop) doesn't mean that these main stream cats aren't good. A lot of these mega hip hop stars had serious underground buzz from tapes and just blew up. I mean, go into the projects and you will find a lot people loving Jay Z, Luda, 50 Cent, etc. Maybe it's just getting lost in translation with you.

I hear what you're saying overall though. You had a good point an went overkill on it.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

The thing about changing hip hop is that some acts like 50 cent come across like they havent appreciated where hip hop came from and are all about le benjamin and sponsorship etc and that hip hop is a way to make fat cash whereas acts like the beastie boys have made fat cash but always nodded to the early days when it was just a form of expression really.

Honestly, I think a lot of that idea that "the real hip hoppers know where the art form came from and respect the 4 corners" and all that is a little mythical. When you go back to the late 70s and early 80s you had a lot of cats rapping about money and violence (money especially though). Somewhere in the late 90s people started twisting a lot of hip hop history, trying to say everything was a political or social statement. But when you go to talk to some of the people who were there they're like "I wasn't trying to make a statement, I was trying to sniff coke and get laid" or "I just wanted to get my name on the wall to get known."

I think a lot of that "know your history" stuff was people like KRS-1 realizing hip hop was crossing over and trying to make sure the outsiders knew what was up. That conversation becomes a lot less relevent when you're talking about inner city youth who are pretty much born and raised on hip hop. Its not like your inner city rapper isn't gonna benfit from knowing about the Herculoids and Superkool 122 and whatnot, but when you grow up in a culture you're already ingrained with a lot of that knowledge.

The Beasties pretty much stayed away from being preachy which is how they survived in the early days. Right or wrong, 3rd Bass caught a lot of flack for trying to be teachers when they were white.

[TAFKASB]

Yeah, if you go to a Roots, Cypres Hill, or a De La concert you will see a lot of middle class white people, but a Jay-Z show is where you will find lots and lots of black folks. It also depends on where you are in the States. Go see a the latest hot rapper in Atlanta or Oakland.

I agree with you that Jay Z is a little overratted, but he's not overrated like 50 Cent or DMX were. And just because it doesn't appeal to you (and you have to admit that dudes from England, white black or whatever, don't get to call the authoritative shots on what's hip hop) doesn't mean that these main stream cats aren't good. A lot of these mega hip hop stars had serious underground buzz from tapes and just blew up. I mean, go into the projects and you will find a lot people loving Jay Z, Luda, 50 Cent, etc. Maybe it's just getting lost in translation with you.

I hear what you're saying overall though. You had a good point an went overkill on it.


You're probably right on it depends where in the states you're from. When I lived there, I lived in Western PA, about an hour from Pittsburgh. When I used to go to hip-hop gigs, it was mainly at the Melon Arena. I guess Western PA is mostly white, hence the artists I saw were mainly watched by white folk. Thing I tried to get across was, I'm not saying Jay-Z is talentless, or a bad rapper, just the dude is a great businessman who rolled with the punches when it came to the media bigging him up. I thing it does matter how old you are when it comes to genres of music. Hip-Hop today is very different to what I grew up listening to in the early 80's. Yes, hip-hop has always been flash flash so to speak, but I just find todays stuff a bit drab. not all of it. Jay-Z may have respect from fellow rap artists, maybe because he's respected because of his lyrics, maybe not. I guarantee though the lot of them respect his business sense. Maybe I did go on overkill about it all. I still know a fair few promoters in clubs across the UK, although I'm a family man now so my time in clubs has finished, but the one thing I hear is, their are a lot of shit artists out there makin a few bucks on mainstreams love of rap. Not all mainstream stuff is shit, no matter what genre you're talking about, but a few years ago when I used to go to a lot of underground hip-hip clubs most of the stuff you listened to was banging. For me, the last great living rapper was NAS. Time to put this all to bed. I guess my views are too strong and in no way did I want to offend anyone. Each to their own I guess.

[TAFKASB]

Jay-Z is one of the most talented rappers since Rakim. Most people in hip-hop acknowledge this, no matter how old they are. And nobody gets that much respect just talking about guns, money and bitches. He has depth and I think a lot of people at Glastonbury realised that for the first time.

I'm just saying you seem to have some strange prejudices which don't really fit with being a hip-hop fan.


ps
Some of the biggest UK rappers aren't ghetto at all. Jehst for instance, or Example who even made a song about the whole prejudice thing. Have a listen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvCd1Xq0Au4), it's quite relevant.

Correct...I'm not a lover of hip-hop today...I love my old skool hip-hop.

[Kid Presentable]

Honestly, I think a lot of that idea that "the real hip hoppers know where the art form came from and respect the 4 corners" and all that is a little mythical. When you go back to the late 70s and early 80s you had a lot of cats rapping about money and violence (money especially though). Somewhere in the late 90s people started twisting a lot of hip hop history, trying to say everything was a political or social statement. But when you go to talk to some of the people who were there they're like "I wasn't trying to make a statement, I was trying to sniff coke and get laid" or "I just wanted to get my name on the wall to get known."

I think a lot of that "know your history" stuff was people like KRS-1 realizing hip hop was crossing over and trying to make sure the outsiders knew what was up. That conversation becomes a lot less relevent when you're talking about inner city youth who are pretty much born and raised on hip hop. Its not like your inner city rapper isn't gonna benfit from knowing about the Herculoids and Superkool 122 and whatnot, but when you grow up in a culture you're already ingrained with a lot of that knowledge.

The Beasties pretty much stayed away from being preachy which is how they survived in the early days. Right or wrong, 3rd Bass caught a lot of flack for trying to be teachers when they were white.

Nicely put. (y)

[easy 3]

Lots of very valid points raised here.

I know that often when people start splitting hairs on here about the old 'what is hip hop and where is it going?' debate, a lot of people (myself included) turn off and think it's irrelevant nonsense - and a lot of other people (again, myself included) write passionately, with great insight into this culture that we enjoy.

Hip Hop has had a socio-political impact on the world that we live in and I think a lot of the older 'True-skool hardliners' (that appear here on the message board) are just people that genuinely care for and understand it, and are just trying to take responibility for what they're involved in. But ultimately Hip Hop is a culture of black, American, urban origins and often reflects that specific situation. Often the people that express strong opinions about it are basically white middle class (often British for whatever reason?) guys that respect the expression and skills whilst misunderstanding some of the motives of the artists involved.

There are a lot of people all over the world that find a great affinity with the graphic, sincere portrayals of struggle, confusion and hopes for some kind of fun and understanding that hip hop music and culture can often express so brilliantly - and I think that's great and progressive.

A lot of popular culture in general recently seems to be pretty amoral (or am I just feeling more responsible nowadays due to age and experience?) - violent, egotistical, self-righteous attitudes pervade a lot of films and computer games for example - so I think Hip Hop broadly just fits into the 'life imitating art or art imitating life' debate that's very relevant right now. I've enjoyed loads of gun-toting Hip Hop in my time, but these subjects just used to seem a little more honest and reflective and less glamourizing, more of a struggle than an ego-fest.

Ultimately I was glad that Jay Z was headlining Glastonbury - it represents a cultural melting pot and broader racial understanding that I definitely want to encourage. I just felt I had to stick up for my man TAFKSB as I felt he had a reasonable point that was being misunderstood somewhat.

Sorry for waffling a bunch of crap - music is what we make of it.

[Guy Incognito]

Honestly, I think a lot of that idea that "the real hip hoppers know where the art form came from and respect the 4 corners" and all that is a little mythical. When you go back to the late 70s and early 80s you had a lot of cats rapping about money and violence (money especially though). Somewhere in the late 90s people started twisting a lot of hip hop history, trying to say everything was a political or social statement. But when you go to talk to some of the people who were there they're like "I wasn't trying to make a statement, I was trying to sniff coke and get laid" or "I just wanted to get my name on the wall to get known."

I think a lot of that "know your history" stuff was people like KRS-1 realizing hip hop was crossing over and trying to make sure the outsiders knew what was up. That conversation becomes a lot less relevent when you're talking about inner city youth who are pretty much born and raised on hip hop. Its not like your inner city rapper isn't gonna benfit from knowing about the Herculoids and Superkool 122 and whatnot, but when you grow up in a culture you're already ingrained with a lot of that knowledge.

The Beasties pretty much stayed away from being preachy which is how they survived in the early days. Right or wrong, 3rd Bass caught a lot of flack for trying to be teachers when they were white.

You make some good points there and i cant really argue as i have a lot less knowledge about hip hop then many people on here. I get what you say about the generation thing.

Right or wrong, 3rd Bass caught a lot of flack for trying to be teachers when they were white.

See, i dont know interestin shit like that! I suppose i like old school stuff mainly but i will always try to listen the new stuff of most genres of music, not just rap. There's still loads of newer stuff i like.
I guess i just prefer hip hop in a rawer form and i dont like some of the side effects of it becoming a global thing, more of a product and 50cent epitomises that for me whereas Jay seems a bit more aware of his musical roots. I dunno its tough to explain.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

You're probably right on it depends where in the states you're from. When I lived there, I lived in Western PA, about an hour from Pittsburgh. When I used to go to hip-hop gigs, it was mainly at the Melon Arena. I guess Western PA is mostly white, hence the artists I saw were mainly watched by white folk. Thing I tried to get across was, I'm not saying Jay-Z is talentless, or a bad rapper, just the dude is a great businessman who rolled with the punches when it came to the media bigging him up. I thing it does matter how old you are when it comes to genres of music. Hip-Hop today is very different to what I grew up listening to in the early 80's. Yes, hip-hop has always been flash flash so to speak, but I just find todays stuff a bit drab. not all of it. Jay-Z may have respect from fellow rap artists, maybe because he's respected because of his lyrics, maybe not. I guarantee though the lot of them respect his business sense. Maybe I did go on overkill about it all. I still know a fair few promoters in clubs across the UK, although I'm a family man now so my time in clubs has finished, but the one thing I hear is, their are a lot of shit artists out there makin a few bucks on mainstreams love of rap. Not all mainstream stuff is shit, no matter what genre you're talking about, but a few years ago when I used to go to a lot of underground hip-hip clubs most of the stuff you listened to was banging. For me, the last great living rapper was NAS. Time to put this all to bed. I guess my views are too strong and in no way did I want to offend anyone. Each to their own I guess.

I just think Hip Hop fell victim to the same thing all muscial genres do. As soon as an original artist comes along they blow up (rightfully so) and then in the following years the copycats destroy the whole genre. Damn, I mean look at what happened with Nirvana. It was because of them that shitty bands like Counting Crows get radio play. Look at all the shitty metal rap that was blowing up 5-10 years ago because of the Beasties.

Not only that the but success often corrupts. I think NAS is a beautiful example of that. He switched up his shit after Illmatic and never could get over that.

Right now, its like hip hop is controlled by the record companies, who are trying to define what's hot. But that's a vicious cycle because a lot of people will think whatever the record companies and MTV are pushing is hot. So that causes stagnation. The innovative artists get cut out of the picture. It used to be that hip hop culture defined what was hot, which was based on who was pushing the envelope in a lot of cases. The record companies had to put their ear to the street and try to promote it. Once it was promoted, then the bandwagon jumped on and things blew up. Now its like the bandwagon is running the show, which is seriously fucked up.

[Sir SkratchaLot]

You make some good points there and i cant really argue as i have a lot less knowledge about hip hop then many people on here. I am only expressing my opinion. The thing with people like Fiddy is that seems to be all about getting signed, doing all the clothing, scents, advertising whatever. I wasnt really arguing about subject matter of hip hop really - i understand its all been quite similar from start to now. I was just trying to say that at least Jay Z nods back to the earlier music styles of hip hop and that it was about expressing yourself. I know he does the businessman thing as well but at least he keeps a balance wheras someone 50 cent doesnt appear to do that from where i am sitting.

I agree of most of your post tho'. As Kid P said, very well put.

Yeah, I think Jay-Z fits a little into that category of "once dope, but corrupted by success". I don't think 50 Cent ever had it to begin with. I saw him as milking it.

Its just hard to relate to people rapping about extreme opulence, and I think that's ultimately going to fail. The best hip hop albums are almost always when the artists are still grounded. Nas's first album, Goodie Mobb's first album, Outkast's first album, Wu-Tang's first album, etc. etc. The Beastie's were kind of rare because they seemed to get more grounded as they progressed.

[Guy Incognito]

Yeah, I think Jay-Z fits a little into that category of "once dope, but corrupted by success". I don't think 50 Cent ever had it to begin with. I saw him as milking it.

Its just hard to relate to people rapping about extreme opulence, and I think that's ultimately going to fail. The best hip hop albums are almost always when the artists are still grounded. Nas's first album, Goodie Mobb's first album, Outkast's first album, Wu-Tang's first album, etc. etc. The Beastie's were kind of rare because they seemed to get more grounded as they progressed.

Just realised i deleted half of my last post by accident when i edited it.:o

The beasties are unique i think in that respect, no-one else will have that experience in hip hop. I had heard some hip beofre RUN DMC and the Beasties but that was mine and loads of peoples first real exposure to rap and they went global and then they went somewhere different. I cant think of any other hip hop act who has done that. Someone else might know one.

[TAFKASB]

You know after several days of this post running, one thing strikes me, a fair few people on here who I started disagreeing with and getting all worked up about I now respect. When it boils down to it all, each and every person who's posted on here has had very good points. I reckon so long as we listen and respect what others have to say ( something I was guilty of not doing ) we might learn something new, I know I have. I was unsure at first about starting this thread for the fact I thought nobody gives a shit, but I'm so glad I did. It's great to see so many people passionate about what hip-hop means to them and the rights and wrongs of it all. I know there have been a fair few bad words said along the way, and this thread could probably go on a long time. It sure beats many times I've come in here and just read crappy threads and couldn't be even bothered to read half of it. Thanks to everyones time in giving their thoughts and opinions. (y)

[Sir SkratchaLot]

After reading this thread again I also want to point out was Superkool 223, not Superkool 122.:eek:

[nysushi1983]

To be honest, if anyone wants to look at what my opinion on hip hop is, look no further than atmosphere and the whole rhymesayers set up. Slugs lyrical genius supported by ants beats is, in my eyes, second only to my love for the BB's. Brother ali, murs, icon, mac lethal etc etc, keeping hip hop underground and live performances to blow you away. In my view, the underground scene is where the true hip hop is, fair enoug tho, after 14 or so years, atmosphere are finally getting their dues with "when life gives you lemons you paint that shit gold"

Also, all this, jay z is the best, no BB's are etc etc - the bottom line is, no-one can ever be crowned as the greatest rapper ever - because different people relate to different styles of hip hop, wether it be the commercial, R&B style of recent or to the old skool days of yesteryear. Music affects and touches people in so many different ways, just because some guy says that jay z is the best doesnt make him the best and vice versa with the BB's. Thats what makes music - so many different styles, opinions etc etc - if we start over analysing music then we weill end up having to split hip hop up into 100's of different genres - if you enjoy what you listen to, then fair play - thats what counts - apart from speed garage, no time for that, call me a hypocrite but come on!??!

[Yetra Flam]

that avatar shits me. i hate when girls where stupid hats like that. looks stupid.


"it's not her hat i'm looking at uhuhuhuhuhuh" yeah i get it

[TAFKASB]

To be honest, if anyone wants to look at what my opinion on hip hop is, look no further than atmosphere and the whole rhymesayers set up. Slugs lyrical genius supported by ants beats is, in my eyes, second only to my love for the BB's. Brother ali, murs, icon, mac lethal etc etc, keeping hip hop underground and live performances to blow you away. In my view, the underground scene is where the true hip hop is, fair enoug tho, after 14 or so years, atmosphere are finally getting their dues with "when life gives you lemons you paint that shit gold"

Also, all this, jay z is the best, no BB's are etc etc - the bottom line is, no-one can ever be crowned as the greatest rapper ever - because different people relate to different styles of hip hop, wether it be the commercial, R&B style of recent or to the old skool days of yesteryear. Music affects and touches people in so many different ways, just because some guy says that jay z is the best doesnt make him the best and vice versa with the BB's. Thats what makes music - so many different styles, opinions etc etc - if we start over analysing music then we weill end up having to split hip hop up into 100's of different genres - if you enjoy what you listen to, then fair play - thats what counts - apart from speed garage, no time for that, call me a hypocrite but come on!??!

I agree...speed garage is wank

[mathcart]

Currently a lot of people's entire perception of hip hop and it's fans is that it's an ego-mad, evil, criminal fraternity - whatever happened to party-people?


Oh and i am not having a go but i think Hip hop isnt dead its just evolved but into something that old schoolers arent fond of. I think you have to face the fact you are getting old!

Respect to you dude, maybe I am getting old and the way hip-hop has gone isn't my bag. :o

OK- I want to get in the fray a little and address these 3 points first. Full disclosure: I'm an early 30's hip-hop head- so yeah, I'm gettin' older, but shit that doesn't mean I have to settle for crap, and it certainly doesn't mean hip-hop has passed me by.

MAINSTREAM hip-hop has absolutely evolved into something I can't stand- but maybe thats whats so infuriating to me, because when I was coming up there was no real distinctions- it was all mainstream hip-hop- BB's, fat-boys, EPMD, eric b & rakim, de la, Kane- the list can go on and on- and shit, would any of that be mainstream today! To start with there all older than 18! Plus the boundaries of what thay wanted to spit about was all over the place and extremely genuine- even if it was a total goof (fat boys I'm looking at you).

It felt a little like rock and roll in the 50's, before it was "figured out" and pushed into holes to sell to kids, you would of been as likely to hear a country act, an r&b act and a doo oop act as rock n roll.

I think the feeling that hip-hop was anything anyone wanted it to be is what I mourn the most about the current state of hip-hop. But I don't think hip-hop is dead either, I listen to as much if not more hip-hop now as I did growing up. Its just all not mainstream now, and there is great stuff out there too.

I just think its hard for me to relate, especially as an older, wiser me, to the message of most crap hip-hop out there. While I always have love for a party song (even If I find myself partying less and less these days) I am extremely uncomfortable with the violence and mass consumerism coming out of the mainstream (I'm better than you because my shit costs more than yours, etc). And while this is certainly nothing new as braggin' has always been a big part of the community and the music, but it wasn't the only part. And maybe more to the point those that did it backed it up by being dope lyricists, today ... not so much.

I guess I long since turned my back on mainstream hip-hop (mostly) for all of those reasons. I respect artists that grew and evolved their sound/message etc. I guess maybe some of the young ens will walk down that road one day(I certainly hope so), but it doesn't mean I have to respect them now when they have nothin real to say and are only crippling those that feed into the worldview they put out about how to "best" exist in society.

Know this was long and rambling, but I wanted to vent. Sorry.
:o


To be honest, if anyone wants to look at what my opinion on hip hop is, look no further than atmosphere and the whole rhymesayers set up. Slugs lyrical genius supported by ants beats is, in my eyes, second only to my love for the BB's. Brother ali, murs, icon, mac lethal etc etc, keeping hip hop underground and live performances to blow you away. In my view, the underground scene is where the true hip hop is, fair enoug tho, after 14 or so years, atmosphere are finally getting their dues with "when life gives you lemons you paint that shit gold"

Agreed- (see above)- I'm really diggin' atmosphere right about now!
(y)



ALSO, I have to agree with that other dude - this is one of the most disappointing threads ever - I mean just imagine the Muppets headlining Glasto! - full lightbulb-covered arches stage set and everything - that's a vision of beauty right there!

:D