View Full Version : rate THE DARK KNIGHT
is there a thread for this already?
saw it just then; ledger does indeed steal the show; not because 'oooo he's dead, how weird is it' but like 'holy shit, this cunt's crazy'. he pulls it off spot on. if you got jack's joker and heath's joker in the same place, yeah you'd put money on heaths'. did drag on a bit though.. 2 and a half hours with the last hour going pretty full-on is quite a bit.
harvey dent's 2-face 'face' is pretty impressive. nice cgi. otherwise, just as good as the first.
wow; imdb is rating it 9.7 out of 10 with 26,000+ votes.
it is a very good movie but.... not that good.
na§tee
07-20-2008, 11:16 AM
there's no poll, man. we need scientific bbmb polls to rate movies. a-z will be PISSED ; )
anyway, doesn't matter because i haven't seen it yet. hopefully splashing out to see it in the IMAX next weekend, woop woop.
Nygel
07-20-2008, 12:02 PM
best movie ever, fuck you, thats how I feel. Its very influential to me as a filmmaker now. Excellent in all but one way (sonar!?) but all villains will now look like your average serial killer because of Nolan's Joker.
Burnout18
07-20-2008, 12:23 PM
Great movie and it was very badass, the joker was great and there is no way they can recast that role, ledger was perfect... I actually feel like gary oldman's gordon stole the movie, he was great.... and there wasn't a lot of alfred, but i guess he wasn't needed as much in this movie as he was in the first.
HEIRESS
07-20-2008, 01:06 PM
so. fucking. good.
I just cant handle bale stringing together more than 2 sentences in his "batman voice". its brutal. stick to the one word replies buddy.
A. Chimendez
07-20-2008, 01:24 PM
Yeah so the wife and I have seen it twice already, the first time in IMAX.
I have two minor, MINOR gripes but yeah, best movie ever.
This isn't really a comic book movie. This is like Chinatown meets Taxi Driver. The Departed meets Dog Day Afternoon.
Batman just happens to be caught up in this insane crime drama and its woven and piled on top of each other. I've never been more blown away from a movie really.
Audio.
07-20-2008, 03:59 PM
^ thats pretty much how the comic books are before and after they blocked the joker's sadistic flavor of murder. The movie is more like the comic book series.
A. Chimendez
07-20-2008, 05:59 PM
Exactly. Two things almost did Batman in completely and that was the censoring of comics after the Wertham trials led to the Comics Code Authority making him into more of a father figure, and the Adam West TV show.
But really what I was talking about is the fact that people still seem to think as far as comic movies go is that they are only for kids. We're finally seeing that trend go away, thank god.
The phrase "comic book movie" still makes most people think its for 13 year olds.
I still counted way too many kids in the audience when we went and saw it last. I hope their parents regretted it.
Jitters
07-20-2008, 07:10 PM
Just wow. It was so good. Joker character was amazing. People were laughing at some of the stuff he said and I can see why, but I didn't laugh, he was way too crazy to not take him seriously. I could quote it for days now.
You know how I got this scar? :)
A. Chimendez
07-20-2008, 07:32 PM
It seemed like the Joker was so intense and messed up people didn't know how to react to they laughed, which is what the Joker would want. Brilliant.
A. Chimendez
07-20-2008, 07:50 PM
i did not like the movie. it was so boring that my friends and i left and went to walmart. the begining i thought was like a commercial or something but when it didnt end i knew it was the movie. the intro ruined it for me.
I went to see the movie at midnight today - i felt asleep at 1 am and woke up at 2:15 am. Whats all the hype???? - its a Batman movie - a bat man who flies and a joker who's not even funny. why did i go???why why
It should have been called The Joker Movie the story is a mess hard to follow and out of caracter for Batman. Batman was the bad guy along with the Joker who in this movie was to dark for children at any age. Marvel made comic books for children. This just another perverted movie for no one.
And heath ledger. His acting really was pretty lame. Anyone can act crazy, blink their eyes hard and fast, randomly stick their tongue out, kind of spaz their head around as they talk non-sense. People give too much credit to actors that play crazy people. There is no measurement or true basis of comparison when it comes to a "crazy persons behavior" therefore you can not say whether an actor does a good job or not of playing a crazy person.
lol
A. Chimendez
07-20-2008, 07:55 PM
We have a winner for prentious asshole of the year who has no fucking clue what he's talking about:
Because I consider myself an adult, it's my contention that this movie is probably more the perfect for anyone under sixteen years of age.
I like to think of myself as mature and I've come to find out that pictures regarding "Batman", "Superman", "Spiderman", etc. either does (or should) appeal to an immature audience. Hence, if this movie appeals to children, or persons that appear childish, then more power to them>
funk63
07-21-2008, 12:12 AM
It was awesome even though I had a hangover when I saw it and it felt like the light from the screen melted my eyes. The joker stole it for sure. My only complaint is how the people reacted towards Dents fucking half FACE missing.. They are just like oh hey man hows life.
Audio.
07-21-2008, 01:20 AM
Well I bet if I made a comment about Two Face's face I'd be running the fuck out. Or maybe people in Gotham have some nice manners (surprise) and felt it would be rude to gasp or show any reaction in that sense because it is insulting.
Audio.
07-21-2008, 01:26 AM
We have a winner for prentious asshole of the year who has no fucking clue what he's talking about:
meh those are people we call trolls. well, if they hate the movie you know what we can do, right? Lets carve a smile on their face.
lol its funny some will take it as a death threat but you cant die from it.So there is no death threat. Unless you like die easily from a paper cut wound.
there's no poll, man. we need scientific bbmb polls to rate movies. a-z will be PISSED ; )
ha, i just realised that whilst on my way to check this thread. my bad! *tugs collar*
i've given it a good sleep and a good thinking through. yeah this movie is that good. it's great.
beastieangel01
07-21-2008, 11:34 AM
loved. it.
bigblu89
07-21-2008, 12:31 PM
I liked it a lot, but what's the deal with Bale's "Batman Voice".
Was it just me, or did he sound like Clint Eastwood?
he did that in batman begins as well. it's part of the persona, to sound terrifying to criminals, and so he doesn't sound like bruce wayne.
i loved it, but i think the only aspect i am apprehensive about is that bale/wayne wasn't the central character, but he was rather part of an ensemble cast or movie. and maybe it could have used a little more alfred too. i think that's why i prefer still prefer begins. obviously christopher nolan knows what he is doing, but i think that was a fatal flaw with the original film series, that they became less about wayne/batman and more about the villians.
checkyourprez
07-21-2008, 02:06 PM
^without the villains there is no batman. so i do feel they need to be a big part of the stories.
i thought it was a good movie. not the best ever or anything like some people are making it out to be. but heath did a great joker. the oscar is a wrap, they should just have him in all 5 slots in the category because theres no doubt hes winning it.
mate_spawn_die
07-21-2008, 02:19 PM
it was ok. nothing special. i liked batman begins more. heath ledger did a better job than i expected... but i still like jack nicholson more.
did anyone think the joker's voice sounded like david lynch sometimes?
yeah he did sound like lynch at times, and gary oldman's gordon looks like ned flanders (http://www.virginmedia.com/microsites/movies/slideshow/simpsons-extras/img_6.jpg).
Audio.
07-21-2008, 02:40 PM
I liked it a lot, but what's the deal with Bale's "Batman Voice".
Was it just me, or did he sound like Clint Eastwood?
lol Clint Eastwood. Well Batman's voice was thought as Clint Eastwood's tone during the The Man with No Name trilogies and the cast director for the animated series wanted that voice and so did everyone else working in the animated production from the 90's. Out of alll the batman voice Kevin Conroy wins. Kevin Conroy is Batman basically. Bale's voice was too umm is was just to over the top but I can understand that this is Nolan's Batman Movie and Bale sought out to show this character has dark demon intimidation among society and it is for that reason Bale made his Batman voice to sound that way. So, its understandable.
Nygel
07-21-2008, 03:42 PM
a lot of people i've read say that the reason his voice is even deeper sounding and such is due to the new mask, something to his nose... i dont remember, i wasnt payign that much attention to him.
checkyourprez
07-21-2008, 04:09 PM
quick question:
does anyone know why the joker gives 2 explanations for how his face got the way it did? and which one, if either was the correct one?
A. Chimendez
07-21-2008, 04:11 PM
Pretty sure they were both bullshit. Its just part of his twisted humor. I'm sure his story changes to suit the situation.
Nygel
07-21-2008, 04:15 PM
in the comics he would say a different story every time
BBboy20
07-22-2008, 03:24 AM
Nitpicking, I see.
Anyways, it was well worth the hundreds of miles just to reach Sountern California to watch it in IMAX.
roosta
07-22-2008, 03:36 AM
Michael Bay's rejected Dark Knight script (http://my.spill.com/profiles/blog/show?id=947994%3ABlogPost%3A355506)
Lyman Zerga
07-22-2008, 03:40 AM
im not gonna watch it even when the rest of the world does
Jitters
07-22-2008, 07:55 AM
Michael Bay's rejected Dark Knight script (http://my.spill.com/profiles/blog/show?id=947994%3ABlogPost%3A355506)
Seriously, that can't be real. It's too stupid.
Back in Black :D
AceFace
07-22-2008, 08:14 AM
i liked it ok. ledger was amazing, of course. i too, hated batman's voice. not only is it too... over the top, but bale has a little tiny lisp and for some reason i noticed it 20 times more when he used that awful voice. i mean i even laughed a few times when batman was talking.
i agree with most, not enough alfred and... i really hope i don't sound bitchy here, but... maggie gyllenhaal just didn't work as rachel. she seemed so much older than she should. they could have made her look atleast a little... pretty. i hate saying that b/c i usually like quirky looking people and maggie def has that quality, but they almost went out of their way to make her look as plain as possible. it even seemed that you sould see her... wrinkles more and you know that movie makeup can cover up anything. i think the one scene she looked good in was when she was interrogating the joker.
oh oh! one more thing there wasn't enough of... bale with his shirt off. :o
na§tee
07-22-2008, 08:26 AM
i'm going on monday night to see it at the IMAX :cool: it was only £2 more expensive than a regular cinema ticket.. geez, it's got pricey nowadays.
i bought two spares so now i just need to recruit a couple of people to come with me. hello? anyone? anyone..
na§tee
07-22-2008, 10:13 AM
christian bale arrested for assaulting his wife and sister (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7519689.stm). nooooo.. don't be a jerkwad, man.
it's still only alleged but jeepers.. shout at your assistant or something if you want to have a fit, don't rough up your family members!
AceFace
07-22-2008, 10:28 AM
^eeek! no christian! nooooooooo!
Audio.
07-22-2008, 12:34 PM
meh, gossip. Trash.
Sources said that Bale was accused of lashing out at his family members - pushing one of them - in an argument over a long-running family dispute.
Bale gave a statement to detectives of his version of events in what was described by police sources as an allegation of a “minor” common assault.
Sources said the argument was over a long-running family dispute.
link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2445620/Batman-actor-Christian-Bale-released-after-assault-allegation-arrest.html)
bale has had a squeaky clean image and reputation as a private family man, and environmentalist and animal rights activist. this doesn't sound too bad at all, although i'm sure many sleazy gossip-mongers in the media and specifically the entertainment media will do their best to ridicule and demonize bale. his father seperated from his mother and then later re-married gloria steinem, who became his stepmother. i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and i wouldn't be surprised if this incident may have stemmed from his parent's relations.
HEIRESS
07-22-2008, 01:29 PM
Fuck, I have screaming style arguments with my mom on a weekly basis. heck, I even threw an empty cardboard soupbowl at her last month.
where are the handcuffs?
na§tee
07-22-2008, 01:49 PM
the bbc isn't the sort of place that reports gossip.
but like i said, "assault" can mean a variety of things. maybe he just, er, shouted aggressively. casually threw a pillow on the ground. crushed some complimentary soap. you know, that sort of assault.
i wish gloria steinem was my mother in law : (
checkyourprez
07-22-2008, 07:08 PM
my two cents on wayne/dents girl. that girl was not even close to being hot. like a 5/10. bruce wayne is pulling models and all these other hot sexy chicks and they pick that woofer as the love interest?!!? come on, be serious. the girl didnt have to be uber hot, just cute atleast would have been nice. but that was my only real gripe of the movie, and she died anyways, so i guess it i wont have to see her in the next one.
Lex Diamonds
07-22-2008, 07:18 PM
Anyways, it was well worth the hundreds of miles just to reach Sountern California to watch it in IMAX.
Yeah, "Sountern California". :rolleyes:
Damn rednecks.
mathcart
07-22-2008, 07:43 PM
he did that in batman begins as well. it's part of the persona, to sound terrifying to criminals, and so he doesn't sound like bruce wayne.
i loved it, but i think the only aspect i am apprehensive about is that bale/wayne wasn't the central character, but he was rather part of an ensemble cast or movie. and maybe it could have used a little more alfred too. i think that's why i prefer still prefer begins. obviously christopher nolan knows what he is doing, but i think that was a fatal flaw with the original film series, that they became less about wayne/batman and more about the villians.
Loved it- Best super-hero flick I've ever seen (and I seen em all!)
Very well done I thought, especially the incredible performance by ledger. I thought the ensemble feel was terrific. ever scene made sense and built on the previous events and the internal logic of the flick- VERY rare for a film to pull this off and have you care about what its trying to say! Very impressive film!
(y)
A. Chimendez
07-22-2008, 09:44 PM
my two cents on wayne/dents girl. that girl was not even close to being hot. like a 5/10. bruce wayne is pulling models and all these other hot sexy chicks and they pick that woofer as the love interest?!!? come on, be serious. the girl didnt have to be uber hot, just cute atleast would have been nice. but that was my only real gripe of the movie, and she died anyways, so i guess it i wont have to see her in the next one.
He grew up with the girl. Don't be so shallow. Plus you always want the girl you can't have.
BBboy20
07-22-2008, 10:35 PM
Yeah, "Sountern California". :rolleyes:How did I miss that? =/
the bbc isn't the sort of place that reports gossip.
but like i said, "assault" can mean a variety of things. maybe he just, er, shouted aggressively. casually threw a pillow on the ground. crushed some complimentary soap. you know, that sort of assault.
i wish gloria steinem was my mother in law : (
i don't think he's been formally charged and he hasn't been arrested yet either; his mother and sister made allegations of assault, then bale voluntarily went to the police to make a statement, after which the police declined to charge him for the moment. hopefully it's all just blown out of proportion, i want to like christian bale, he seems like such a nice guy. also i can't remember how it works for the criminal offense, but in tort language "assault" is just a threat of violence, battery is when you actually hit the person (or grope or spit on or whatever). i think it might be different for criminal law though. also i don't know how it works in britain
huh? oh yeah, batman! that movie ruled. i liked the joker's pencil trick, that came out of nowhere. and i dunno if i'm reading too much into it, but did they make an american psycho reference at some point? at one point bruce wayne says "i need a new suit" and morgan freeman says something like "yes, 3 button suits are a little...90's"
BBboy20
07-23-2008, 01:22 AM
AP took place in the '80s.
I've heard that Bale was a total dick in high school and all of these other crazy things but who knows with the internet the way it is. Oh that crazy internet!
The movie though... what else can I add? There a section that involves an 18 wheeler and a SWAT van. The soundtrack is non existent for a good stretch and the sound design is pretty top notch. Then shit hits the fan and the soundtrack picks it up. Classy. Dent's reaction to his coin. If you pay attention to his face, you can really tell he doesn't know what he'll do next. The Joker's inflections in his voice and the specific moments where he licks his scars... so many little details in this movie. It just feels like a labor of love all around and I can't wait to watch it again to see how many things I missed..
i liked the joker's pencil trick, that came out of nowhere.
i was pretty much the only person in a packed cinema who laughed/soft applause that moment... someone else chuckled but everyone else was all "OMGZ!". brilliantly brutal.
BBboy20
07-23-2008, 06:45 AM
i was pretty much the only person in a packed cinema who laughed/soft applause that moment... someone else chuckled but everyone else was all "OMGZ!". brilliantly brutal.I heard plenty of "Damn!"; oddly that was also funny (but also cool) to me and I think plenty of the audience felt that way as well.
Dent's reaction to his coin.
i think he was more upset about what happened to rachel (because she was holding onto the coin) than the coin itself. but maybe that's what you meant in the first place!
AP took place in the '80s.
i get those decades confused, oops
A. Chimendez
07-23-2008, 09:36 AM
I've heard that Bale was a total dick in high school and all of these other crazy things but who knows with the internet the way it is. Oh that crazy internet!
The movie though... what else can I add? There a section that involves an 18 wheeler and a SWAT van. The soundtrack is non existent for a good stretch and the sound design is pretty top notch. Then shit hits the fan and the soundtrack picks it up. Classy. Dent's reaction to his coin. If you pay attention to his face, you can really tell he doesn't know what he'll do next. The Joker's inflections in his voice and the specific moments where he licks his scars... so many little details in this movie. It just feels like a labor of love all around and I can't wait to watch it again to see how many things I missed..
Seriously, its even better the second time.
I've heard that Bale was a total dick in high school and all of these other crazy things but who knows with the internet the way it is. Oh that crazy internet!
he was actually subjected to severe bullying due to his starring role in and resulting publicity from empire of the sun.
all of the news reports suggest that at worst he pushed his mother or they brushed, and she wasn't hurt nor didn't fall down, while a source close to bale said that they were having an argument and bale got pissed after his mother insulted him and his wife, saying some outrageous things. bale has also been extremely depressed over ledger's death, suffering from insomnia. plus take into consideration all of the pressure he's under, ie daily multiple press junkets, papparrazzi and fans everywhere etc, and he wanted to share the moment with ledger. also, the charge is apparently "verbal abuse", which you can be charged with england.
anyways, this sounds like a simple family spat and a 'who cares' story which the media is blowing out of proportion.
venusvenus123
07-23-2008, 10:56 AM
my friend was best friends with his first girlfriend and i've heard that he's a lovely guy.
i can't get to see this anywhere in london tonight. i guess the rave reviews have spread like wildfire.
beastieangel01
07-23-2008, 12:34 PM
i was pretty much the only person in a packed cinema who laughed/soft applause that moment... someone else chuckled but everyone else was all "OMGZ!". brilliantly brutal.
I gave a half-laugh/half-"holy fucking shit!!!!!" jaw drop to that scene. Did not see that coming but WOW that was, um, really well done with regards to developing the Joker and his true character.
HEIRESS
07-23-2008, 12:47 PM
i don't think he's been formally charged and he hasn't been arrested yet either; his mother and sister made allegations of assault, then bale voluntarily went to the police to make a statement, after which the police declined to charge him for the moment. hopefully it's all just blown out of proportion, i want to like christian bale, he seems like such a nice guy. also i can't remember how it works for the criminal offense, but in tort language "assault" is just a threat of violence, battery is when you actually hit the person (or grope or spit on or whatever). i think it might be different for criminal law though. also i don't know how it works in britain
huh? oh yeah, batman! that movie ruled. i liked the joker's pencil trick, that came out of nowhere. and i dunno if i'm reading too much into it, but did they make an american psycho reference at some point? at one point bruce wayne says "i need a new suit" and morgan freeman says something like "yes, 3 button suits are a little...90's"
the way Bale plays the public Bruce Wayne is a total play off his american psycho persona. overly confident, yuppie, egotistical etc.
and he does it SO excellently. I just adore it. plus he is playing "mid 20s" Bruce Wayne, so he's got to be a lil wild.
ggirlballa
07-23-2008, 10:28 PM
wow christian bale just...wow ;)
yeah loved the movie, the joker especially
heath ledger is an amazing actor
saw it at the midnight showings the projector broke down so it started half an hour late so we got passes to see another movie
so of course i saw it the next day with my big brother
what i liked especially is that it was 2 and a half hours of action it never got boring to me
venusvenus123
07-24-2008, 02:34 AM
i got tickets to see it tonight!
Loppfessor
07-24-2008, 08:55 AM
I saw it 1 1/2 times and really liked it. I went Tuesday night but my friend was having a crisis so I spent about 35 minutes in the lobby trying to talk her out of hysterics so I missed a lot. I went back last night and watched it again in its entirety. I'm not sure if it's the "best" movie ever but it was amazing and I may see it again lol. My only gripe is Bale's Batman voice...oh lord it is awful!
kleptomaniac
07-24-2008, 12:12 PM
i saw it with my friend the other day. the film was so dark and heath ledger was so crazy and gary oldman was so so so sexy... i loved every minute of it!! except for the part where i thought gary died, that part made me sad...then when he suddenly appeared again i wanted to run up and kiss the screen!! :o
hpdrifter
07-24-2008, 02:13 PM
I think the Batman voice thing is part of his growing into what will eventually become the fully realized Batman. I think its supposed to sound over the top to show that he's still experimenting with his alter ego.
Anyway, I had heard about the pencil thing so I laughed as well. So many other lines with pitch perfect delivery. Like when the gang members say to him, something like "You think you can just come in here and start telling us what to do" or whatever and without missing a beat or a hint of ego he just says "Yeah". With one word he conveyed so much about the character.
People have already pretty much said everything else that I was going to.
The only thing I didn't like was like the last third of the movie they were just driving home that whole thing about being the hero gotham deserves or whatever. Like I didn't get it the first 10 times someone said it or the first two times someone waxed philosophical about it. Once is enough, people. Really.
Gareth
07-24-2008, 03:04 PM
i liked it
kleptomaniac
07-24-2008, 04:53 PM
it did bother me that they left the joker in the interrogation room with shards of glass from the broken mirror and being guarded by that cop who was stupid enough to get close to him...can't you see that big freakin' shard of glass right behind him?!! :rolleyes:
BBboy20
07-24-2008, 05:40 PM
it did bother me that they left the joker in the interrogation room with shards of glass from the broken mirror and being guarded by that cop who was stupid enough to get close to him...can't you see that big freakin' shard of glass right behind him?!! :rolleyes:Or Joker used that cop to create larger shards.
Anyway, I had heard about the pencil thing so I laughed as well. So many other lines with pitch perfect delivery. Like when the gang members say to him, something like "You think you can just come in here and start telling us what to do" or whatever and without missing a beat or a hint of ego he just says "Yeah". With one word he conveyed so much about the character.
yeah, there were a bunch of little moments like that. like when he visits harvey dent in the hospital dressed up in the nurse's outfit and says "hi"
Loppfessor
07-24-2008, 09:31 PM
.
The only thing I didn't like was like the last third of the movie they were just driving home that whole thing about being the hero gotham deserves or whatever. Like I didn't get it the first 10 times someone said it or the first two times someone waxed philosophical about it. Once is enough, people. Really.
Yeah that's a good point...you should be able to pick up on a theme or point of a movie without having it spelled out and hammered into your head so much
BBboy20
07-24-2008, 09:40 PM
It was too epic to be subtle.
Loppfessor
07-24-2008, 10:41 PM
Yeah but it wasn't very subtle to begin with...
venusvenus123
07-25-2008, 09:51 AM
i'm in love with the joker. i now see what the fuss about heath ledger is.
jack nicholson has nothing on him.
it was pretty epic--in a good way--but could've been cut down a bit.
well worth the £9.50 tho. everyone in my (packed) theatre laughed at the pencil stunt. i think i laughed a lot throughout. brilliant stuff!
roosta
07-25-2008, 06:06 PM
yup...its pretty fuckin' brilliant.
Proper epic, one to watch again and again
BUT...BUUUUT...
im sorry, but i dont see the fuss over Ledger. Yes he's good, He's very good, but it wasnt mind blowingly good. It wasnt the same way when, for instance, i came out of No Country for Old Men, and Javier Bardem's performance was fucking chilling. Again, he is good, but it's not the performance (for me) that people are making it out to be.
But yes, overall, it deserves the praise. Its an excellent film.
I hope they recast the Joker also and keep going with the character.
mate_spawn_die
07-25-2008, 06:14 PM
hype
ToucanSpam
07-25-2008, 06:42 PM
10/10 easily
I saw it last Thursday at a midnight show and despite being exausted I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Everything about that movie was awesome, except I was not fond of Maggie Gylenhaal.
Audio.
07-26-2008, 01:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc
lol
Lex Diamonds
07-26-2008, 07:54 AM
Hype is for the meek, so when I went to see this film last night, I was expecting a 3.5 star job at best. But lo and behold, it's actually a really decent film. Who would have thought: a comic book adaption that's actually a credible movie?
The first thing you have to marvel* at is the cast. Oldman, Bale and Ledger, perhaps the greatest dark character actors to come out of their respective nations in the last 25 years. I did feel Bale did not get enough screen time however the fact that most of that time was filled with Ledger's delicious Joker is no small consolation.
Those fond of hyperbole and superstition will claim that Ledger knew this was his last performance, that it was fated to be his best and that it can never be recreated. The cynics among us, including me, reacted to these people with derision; if he hadn't died, would everybody think it was so special? However, after seeing it for myself, I have to admit that he was the highlight of an already impressive film. He has successfully channelled aspects of Nicholson's classic performance whilst bringing his own tragic urgency to the character. I've always agreed with the school of thought that posthumous awards are often unwarranted and deprive up and coming actors of a leg up in the industry, but to be honest if they gave Ledger the Oscar I wouldn't mind one bit.
The only negative criticism I would level at this film is its pace. The final act stops and starts like it's in a traffic jam, and while that's not neccesarily a bad thing, it makes the ending feel somehow awkward and rushed. Not that it's a poor ending, although there were one or two loose ends left untied (what happened to The Joker? is Two Face actually dead and if so, WTF?) which no doubt will be picked up on in a sequel.
All in all, I would give it a strong 8.5 out of ten. But I'm going to put it up to 9 just because Ledger's was the best performance I've seen in the cinema for a few years. Go and see this film, it's batshit crazy good.
*No pun intended, LOL. And yeah I know Batman was DC, shut up.
Lyman Zerga
07-26-2008, 08:00 AM
you rating sucks, take it back!
Lex Diamonds
07-26-2008, 08:04 AM
You suck, take it from the back!
BBboy20
07-26-2008, 05:42 PM
Personally, they shouldn't bring him back in the live-action Nolan series. Now if there ever was a animated short or episode in the Nolan series, that would seem at best.
Audio.
07-26-2008, 11:09 PM
Joker should be back.
As much of a great performance Ledger did as the Joker as a character with very much of individual dynamic feeling in the movie, I think it wouldn't matter if Ledger was replaced. In the Dark Knight, the Joker was a stand out villain. Fantastic performance. But... what if he had Harley Quinn in the movie? Would the Joker outstage Harley Quinn or would had Harley Quinn dragged down that shining villain spotlight and performance from the Joker/ Heath Ledger.
So, the Joker should come back even if Heath Ledger is replaced by another great actor, it would be a great reason for Harley Quinn to be introduced in future Nolan films with the Joker in it. In this way Harley Quinn will not be out-staged by the Joker's old performance, as both actors will be leveled down as a couple or partners instead of one standing out as unique individual villain. In this way we are not expecting the next Joker out performer the other Joker but we can become anxious about how Harley Quinn and the Joker become as a double threat in the movie as a team.
BBboy20
07-27-2008, 12:03 AM
We all love her but...can we just move on to people not related to the Joker (well, for now)
Audio.
07-27-2008, 12:12 AM
Well what they were thinking was that The Joker would of been in the 3rd movie for a brief scene much like how Scarecrow had in Dark Knight. But they are thinking of using some deleted scenes of the Joker in court that Ledger had been filmed in for a trial of the Joker's crimes in Gotham.
sigh, all Batman movies are rushed in the end and we have to expect the total ending results at the start of the next movie. For those that were complaining why the ending was rushed its because of that.
And no, the joker wont be the the big villain of the next movie. Rumor has and maybe and strongly not rumors are that in "2010:King of Gotham, the second sequel to Batman Begins, starring Christian Bale, Gary Oldman, Brooke Shields as Poison Ivy, Phillip Seymour Hoffman as The Riddler and Shia LaBeouf as Robin."
so there.
Yetra Flam
07-27-2008, 12:19 AM
you thought gary oldman was sexy?
no joke, i would probably give gary oldman a handjob if he asked politely, in a sort of actory tone
well for money, obviously
RobMoney$
07-27-2008, 12:34 AM
She also thinks Yauch is sex on two legs.
Absolutely frightening.
She also thinks Yauch is sex on two legs.
Absolutely frightening.
you think that's frightening!
ggirlballa
07-27-2008, 12:38 AM
you thought gary oldman was sexy?
this crossed my mind as well!
christian bale and heath ledger (without joker makeup or maybe if ur into that weird shit) are the hotties of the movie
also was i the only one who thought maggie gylenhall (pardon my spelling) was really plain to be the IT girl of the movie?
Yetra Flam
07-27-2008, 12:43 AM
klepto, don't be that young girl who is into old, not particularly all that attractive men.
Audio.
07-27-2008, 12:45 AM
Personally, they shouldn't bring him back in the live-action Nolan series. Now if there ever was a animated short or episode in the Nolan series, that would seem at best.
oh and by the way I personally dont like how Ghost In The Shell and Cowboy Bebop are gonna turn into live action movie :confused: total kill.
and as for Harley Quinn... well I've seen some concept photos from a fan and well... she sort of looks punkish. But yeah they wont come out in the next one.
I was hoping to have seen Clay Face.
bummer.
Yetra Flam
07-27-2008, 12:50 AM
unless they're rich, i guess that would make it ok.
BBboy20
07-27-2008, 01:24 AM
oh and by the way I personally dont like how Ghost In The Shell and Cowboy Bebop are gonna turn into live action movie :confused: total kill.Hollywood was too impatient of raping our childhood so they'll go after anime
I was hoping to have seen Clay Face.I don't think your going to see any villains with artificial "talents" anytime soon.
Audio.
07-27-2008, 01:46 AM
I was worried about that. Nolan have said he wont even make a movie with the Penguin, so no Croc no Clay Face and no Bat-man - that mutant bat. But at least of course Catwomen is possible and hopefully even more twisted than the Joker we might see the Ventriloquist (y)
and yeah... damn Hollywood.
why doesnt Japanese film industry film it themselves and the Cowboy Bebop Cast in America do the voice overs, would be better :)
BBboy20
07-27-2008, 02:20 AM
why doesnt Japanese film industry film it themselves and the Cowboy Bebop Cast in America do the voice overs, would be better :)I have no clue; like the heads are nothing but businessmen who have no idea on quality.
Documad
07-27-2008, 01:41 PM
Did anyone see it on IMAX? I'm considering doing that instead of a regular theater. What's the deal with the IMAX version? How does it work? I heard that only a few scenes were filmed for IMAX.
I've only seen movies on the IMAX screen that were 100% made for IMAX.
na§tee
07-27-2008, 01:52 PM
i'm going to see it on IMAX tomorrow.
it's not just a cinematic release 'done big' for IMAX. i think they filmed four scenes and some of the establishing shots on special IMAX cameras/film, so at these points the picture will grow bigggerrrr to incorporate the IMAX aspect ratio - 1:43:1. when these scenes stop, it'll go back to the film ratio - 1:85:1/2:39:1.
scenes shot on IMAX also have a much, much higher resolution and all sorts of other sexy stuff. more info on the IMAX stuff here (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/07/14/how-the-dark-knight-went-imax/).
i think it's kind of a big deal as ron burgundy would say. the first feature film (right?) to do this and pretty groundbreaking. should be fun.
BBboy20
07-27-2008, 05:10 PM
Did anyone see it on IMAX? I'm considering doing that instead of a regular theater. What's the deal with the IMAX version? How does it work? I heard that only a few scenes were filmed for IMAX.
I've only seen movies on the IMAX screen that were 100% made for IMAX.The sound system though is so worth it; makes the theater shake.
Lex Diamonds
07-27-2008, 07:46 PM
This looks like a copy and paste....anyway, this isn't his "last" performance.
They said the same thing when Jack Nicholson played the Joker years ago, they praised his performance. Although Heath did a better job ... he's younger .... and whittier .... if he wasn't, the movie would have been pretty stale.
I think they left the Joker hanging so they could bring him back, not knowing Heath would pass away. I doubt they will be able to replace his character now, ever.
LOL
1) "Copy and paste"? Suck my dick.
2) "Whittier"? Not only misspelled but hopelessly missing the point (and untrue).
3) Yeah, it is his last complete performance, chump. Once again The Padster is right and some lame PMS ho is wrong.
Documad
07-27-2008, 07:52 PM
It's $15 for IMAX but I'm thinking about it. Your arguments are persuasive. :p
BBboy20
07-27-2008, 08:50 PM
Reaching 300 and counting. (http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/20080727/121720098000.html)
Audio.
07-27-2008, 08:57 PM
I have no clue; like the heads are nothing but businessmen who have no idea on quality.
Well on the bright side Tron 2 is being made.
Check out the trailer
http://www.vimeo.com/1416910(y)
it looks goooood plus the The Dude is back in that film. If you dont know what Tron is just watch the trailer. I think you'll might remember the scene.
Dorothy Wood
07-27-2008, 09:15 PM
maggie looked ugly, but still charmed me.
the "batman" voice was definitely silly.
heath ledger's performance was great, I also enjoyed the "yeah" and "hi"
I thought it was clever and well-acted.
Two Face's face was well-executed.
I think it's a comment on how good the first one is though, because the first one is a bit more interesting and entertaining I think. but they set up the story so well that you're invested in Bruce Wayne already when you see the sequel, that you're really rooting for him and want to genuinely find out what's going to happen next in his development.
anyway, it was pretty good, but I can't say I was blown away.
Lex Diamonds
07-28-2008, 06:12 AM
Shut up ho.
I loved it. It took me a little while to take the look of Batman seriously. He always looks a little too daft and awkward for my liking but once I jumped that hurdle I found the film to be something special. Heath's joker was amazingly unhinged and totally stole every scene.
9/10
roosta
07-28-2008, 07:21 AM
I liked the way batman looked..funny how they address the whole "cant look up or left or right" thing..which was always ridiculous.
ALSO
I had no problem with batman's "voice", i thought it was totally appropriate.
Maybe it's the ears or the way it pushes his cheeks forward like a chipmunk. Batmunk.
I liked his voice, I had to explain it to someone that he does it to hide his identity.
hpdrifter
07-28-2008, 11:27 AM
There was a (not so) subtle line that makes me think catwoman will be one of the future villians. Or maybe it was just meant as a wink at the audience. Who knows?
Possible catwomen:
Rachel McAdams (a chance to toughen up and break out of the ingenue mode? I think she could pull it off)
Rosario Dawson (if she could learn to speak in or get a feel for rhythm with dialogue)
?
?
?
Yeah I got that.
It's the bit where M. Freeman is saying about the suit being dog proof and something about it not being (or being!?!?!?) cat proof.
...like Halle Berry's tay-tays in Monster's Ball.
yeah, catwoman is cheese.
i was thinking perhaps rutger hauer who played earle could return in a third film, considering hauer is excellent at playing creepy villians, ie blade runner and the hitcher. or maybe even liam neeson could return as ras al ghul. but i think the most likely scenario is a villian we haven't seen yet. i know that nolan doesn't want to use the penguin.
hpdrifter
07-28-2008, 11:47 AM
I think a villain we haven't seen yet would be ideal. Like the scarecrow in the first movie.
There are still some good ones left to choose from...
roosta
07-28-2008, 01:25 PM
the Riddler could be done quite well...like a Zodiac killer type thing...
Catwoman could easily be done...Burton/Pfieffer did it well, but there was room for improvement..but not as the main villain.
abcdefz
07-28-2008, 02:13 PM
The Dark Knight:
I liked it an awful lot, even though the freighter sequence didn't really work for me and there are various other things that are little
nitpicky missteps that just get bulldozered by the rush of the whole thing. There's an awful lot to love.
I actually think it's pretty much a Swiss watch until Two-Face gets going on his mission. That's when things start feeling a little long.
8.5/10 or thereabouts. Best movie I've seen so far this year.
Oh, yeah: kinda disturbing when you start adding up all the illegal stuff Batman does.
BBboy20
07-28-2008, 03:18 PM
What's with people already suspecting what villains are going to use next? It's like "OHz, lets redo all the villains because I'm too nerdly selfish to notice why they reused these two characters!"
The only reason the Joker was used because they found some new material for the character, same for Two-Face expect that he would fit into that world AND needed to be redone (I'm guessing there gonna' redo the Forever villains which leaves out the Riddler). Actually maybe because they made a new reboot, they also felt that Batman would have to face his archenemy eventually in his new beginning. (And that he's the Joker...)
Probably after him, there gonna choose new villains who haven't been in the film (Black Mask was in one of the rough drafts in TDK but was taken away at the final; and possibly Ra's daughter)
But you know what, the hell with speculations; nobody had much of a clue other then Mr. J's calling card at the end of BB and we didn't really speculate so what makes this any different here?
it's an internet message board, we can discuss whatever we like, regardless of what angry, patronizing fanboys may think.
What's with people already suspecting what villains are going to use next? It's like "OHz, lets redo all the villains because I'm too nerdly selfish to notice why they reused these two characters!"
The only reason the Joker was used because they found some new material for the character, same for Two-Face expect that he would fit into that world AND needed to be redone (I'm guessing there gonna' redo the Forever villains which leaves out the Riddler). Actually maybe because they made a new reboot, they also felt that Batman would have to face his archenemy eventually in his new beginning. (And that he's the Joker...)
Probably after him, there gonna choose new villains who haven't been in the film (Black Mask was in one of the rough drafts in TDK but was taken away at the final; and possibly Ra's daughter)
But you know what, the hell with speculations; nobody had much of a clue other then Mr. J's calling card at the end of BB and we didn't really speculate so what makes this any different here?
what's with all the people speculating about who the next villain's going to be? what a bunch of stupid crap. anyway i think the next villain's going to be
wasn't the penguin an aristocratic businessman from a wealthy family? they could get dick cheney (http://allhatnocattle.net/dick_cheney_penguin.jpg). he could shoot batman in the face.
i think it's hard for me to take most batman villains seriously as dangerous people because my main experience with them is the 1970s adam west movie. so the riddler and the penguin are, in my mind, very silly.
but the joker turned out really well (shaving off the mustache before putting the make-up on helped) so hey, i'm curious to see what the rest might look like as real bad guys.
what's with all the people speculating about who the next villain's going to be? what a bunch of stupid crap. anyway i think the next villain's going to be
nice.
na§tee
07-29-2008, 03:30 AM
well, i saw it last night and it was brilliant, and i can't really add to the comments that have been posted here already, except to say that yes, the sound effects are amazing and i think it is 100% worth seeing it on IMAX. those particular scenes are incredible. worth every penny.
my favourite part of the entire film is the way the joker comes skipping/walking out of the hospital then KABOOM. heath ledger can be absolutely silent but still give the air of a complete nutjob even in the subtleties of his movement. great work.
what's with all the people speculating about who the next villain's going to be? what a bunch of stupid crap. anyway i think the next villain's going to be
batman vs predator vs aliens
abcdefz
07-29-2008, 12:44 PM
They might not even have to have a villain, exactly, if the next movie is all about trying to hunt Batman down while he goes on fighting crime.
hpdrifter
07-29-2008, 06:54 PM
That could actually be a pretty dope concept, but there'd have to be a villain to create crime for him to fight.
funk63
07-29-2008, 08:27 PM
cyborg robin hood
BBboy20
07-30-2008, 01:17 AM
They might not even have to have a villain, exactly, if the next movie is all about trying to hunt Batman down while he goes on fighting crime.That would sound like mostly Year One...but were already past his past...besides, the cops would be just cops.
Audio.
07-30-2008, 04:08 AM
Dead Shot would of been great as a hired hit on Batman during the huntdown but they already added Dead Shot for Gotham Knight movie so it would be useless now to add him for the next.
roosta
07-30-2008, 04:28 AM
I saw it for the second time last night (herself wanted to see it). Its still as thrilling second time around, but I did notice the plot didn't seem as tight-as-a-drum as I thought first time.
Still though, its a film about a Bat-man, im not gonna over think it.
venusvenus123
07-30-2008, 05:19 AM
I saw it for the second time last night (herself wanted to see it). Its still as thrilling second time around, but I did notice the plot didn't seem as tight-as-a-drum as I thought first time.
Still though, its a film about a Bat-man, im not gonna over think it.
true. i thought the plot was mostly pants. apart from the HK bit. but the action was wizard.
i'm going to see it again on IMAX with a friend who hasn't seen it yet.
they're showing midnight plus viewings in IMAX here. that would be fun if i was free and single once again... or just not a parent.
i think maggie gyllenhaal is brilliant. everyone seems to want a young bimbo. :confused:
checkyourprez
07-30-2008, 01:25 PM
^chick was the worst. she is a legitimate problem with that movie. her acting is fine but she just does not look the part of bruce waynes main love interest. i don't want/need a bimbo, just someone good looking. there are good looking intelligent woman out there (i dont mean her real life IQ but her ability to play someone in a movie as such). i use the Gweneth Paltrow in iron man as an example. they made her kind of plain, yet still beautiful. gyllenhaal was just the gyllenballs.
abcdefz
07-30-2008, 02:42 PM
That could actually be a pretty dope concept, but there'd have to be a
villain to create crime for him to fight.
That would sound like mostly Year One...but were already past his past...
besides, the cops would be just cops.
Maybe use the calendar murders, then. But Gordon is legitimately trying to catch Batman, maybe like a
male version of Clooney/Lopez in Out of Sight.
But, really, in a way, Batman could function as the villain, and it could largely be a cat and mouse thing
between Gordon and Batman while each is fighting crime around the city. Maybe Gordon tracks Batman
down through Fox's work, sort of the way the accountant accidentally stumbled onto it.
I dunno. I'm sure if, thinking about this for roughly five minutes, I come up with something 10% interesting,
the Nolans can come up with something terrific if they put their minds to it.
abcdefz
07-30-2008, 02:45 PM
Maggie is one of those women who is terrific looking because of how she carries herself, not so much
her actual physical beauty. I absolutely believed she and Wayne had a looooooooooooooong history
together. She was great.
Maybe use the calendar murders, then. But Gordon is legitimately trying to catch Batman, maybe like a
male version of Clooney/Lopez in Out of Sight.
But, really, in a way, Batman could function as the villain, and it could largely be a cat and mouse thing
between Gordon and Batman while each is fighting crime around the city. Maybe Gordon tracks Batman
down through Fox's work, sort of the way the accountant accidentally stumbled onto it.
I dunno. I'm sure if, thinking about this for roughly five minutes, I come up with something 10% interesting,
the Nolans can come up with something terrific if they put their minds to it.
it could work, but gordon wouldn't bring batman down, because he initially refused the idea that batman take the fall for two-face's crimes or murders. gordon sympathizes with him and is still on batman's side. the entire relationship though between the police and batman will likely be one of themes explored in the next film, with harvey dent likely being eventually exposed. and is he really dead? who knows. anyways, after ledger's performance and setting the proverbial bar very high, they'll have to get top notch talent to pick up the slack for a new villian, ie johnny depp, brolin, dicaprio etc, otherwise the lack of an enticing villian will be a huge disappointment and anti-climatic. regardless, nolan should and probably will work on another project or two before returning to the series.
venusvenus123
07-30-2008, 03:11 PM
glad to hear a couple of sane voices re maggie. she's the only woman in the film! apart from the russian ballerina. i find that a bit crap in 2008 :(
you can tell i'm not a graphic novel fan. :p
haven't even seen batman begins... i intend to rectify that before seeing the dark knight again.
abcdefz
07-30-2008, 04:07 PM
Dial expectations down, venus.
roosta
07-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Dial expectations down, venus.
don't dial anything down!
it's great.
roosta
07-31-2008, 02:48 AM
fuck that shit! She'd be all too self knowing and "im angelina jolie and im catwoman!"
no!
Audio.
07-31-2008, 04:16 AM
its most likely there will not be a cat woman as stated from David Goyer.
What the folks are trying to introduce to audience in the Gotham realm are those characters and villains that are hardly put into the big screen. Since the Joker is a major nemesis and since there were hardly any origin of Two-Face they made an exception. Unfortunate, Penguin and most likely other unworldly villains plus those that are very much common wont hit onto the big screen much like Clay Face and Batgirl.
Zatanna would be awesome to see! (y)
venusvenus123
07-31-2008, 04:18 AM
fuck that shit! She'd be all too self knowing and "im angelina jolie and im catwoman!"
no!
i can pop out the babbas while i'm slaying villains AND pout at the same time!
BBboy20
07-31-2008, 06:17 AM
Zatanna would be awesome to see! (y)Probably won't be seeing any magic in Nolan's films.
Audio.
07-31-2008, 12:40 PM
Probably won't be seeing any magic in Nolan's films.
noooooooooooesssss. It probably would be fair not intro introduce her though her character is pretty much in similar connections with Bruce so her being the new love interest would be you know a good mix. But like you said speculating whats the next who and who for the next film is pretty much lame. I'm just gonna sit back and watch the ride while of course crossing my fingers for Zatanna. Cause she's hot and reminds me of Jeniffer Connelly.
roosta
07-31-2008, 01:25 PM
Probably won't be seeing any magic in Nolan's films.
The Prestige? :p
abcdefz
07-31-2008, 04:20 PM
are you watching closely
BBboy20
07-31-2008, 07:13 PM
The Prestige? :pLOlz :D
Kid Presentable
08-02-2008, 05:52 PM
It was pretty good, but it felt like it was meant to be 3 hours worth and a bunch of vital shit was chopped out. I don't know, it was almost too subtle at points. And Heath was good, but most of that is the character. I remember seeing Jack's Joker as a kid, and it's still my idea of the best one. Ledger's joker was ok, but nothing special. If he hadn't died, not a soul would be touting that role for an Oscar.
Anybody else feel like this film slid this franchise a little closer to the same fate as the previous Batman franchises? Like we now expect a newer, bigger one, we expect a bunch of celebrities (Angelina? pffft yeah right) who would only dominate the roles into oblivion, and we're probably going to get a story that opens the cracks Dark Knight created.
Batman Begins>Dark Knight, if only for having some gusto. This one was pretty generic, by-numbers graphic novel adaptation. IMO.
BBboy20
08-02-2008, 07:42 PM
Anybody else feel like this film slid this franchise a little closer to the same fate as the previous Batman franchises? Like we now expect a newer, bigger one, we expect a bunch of celebrities (Angelina? pffft yeah right) who would only dominate the roles into oblivion, and we're probably going to get a story that opens the cracks Dark Knight created.As in the studios forcing the production crew's hand like Spidy 3? I hope not. Otherwise, there's a good chance they'll just pick some good unknown or well respected actor for the new characters.
Kid Presentable
08-02-2008, 07:51 PM
Juliette Lewis would be a good catwoman. But yeah, I feel like it's taken it's first steps toward being just another franchise. That story had too many balls in the air to really work, and as a result it felt like a spectacle-driven action superhero flick.
Lyman Zerga
08-03-2008, 05:32 AM
Juliette Lewis would be a good catwoman.
i lowes her (y)
BBboy20
08-03-2008, 05:40 AM
Jonathan Nolan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Nolan) Interview *SPOILERS* (http://cdn2.libsyn.com/creativescreenwritingmag/TheDarkKnightQandA.mp3?nvb=20080803094009&nva=20080804094009&t=01e8c5a45c36368c9d592)
venusvenus123
08-03-2008, 07:45 AM
^that's pretty nerdy!
abcdefz
08-03-2008, 03:53 PM
SPOILERS FOR DARK KNIGHT & MEMENTO AHEAD
I saw the movie again and realized the ending is kind of similar to the ending of Memento. Basically, Batman and Leonard both create a
fiction that is going to set a pursuit in motion, just reversed: Gordon pursuing Batman and Leonard pursuing "Teddy." Both scenes had
voice-over -- the tone wasn't identical, but definitely in the same ball park.
BBboy20
08-08-2008, 05:03 PM
Early Joker Concepts (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/07/the-dark-knight-early-joker-concept-art/)
BBboy20
08-12-2008, 06:13 AM
More rumors (http://kotaku.com/5035832/first-details-on-the-new-batman-game) on the game.
For a licensed title (and that it's coming from EA), it's surely unusual for it to be honed in secret.
Best supporting actor: Heath Ledger - The Dark Knight.
BAFTA and Oscar.
Briliant (y)
Nuzzolese
02-24-2009, 11:05 AM
I loved it! It was amazing, I was on the edge of my seat through the whole four hours of it - or however long. The best scene was the car chase at night with the trucks, how there was no background music at first which built the suspense, until suddenly it started with a bang.
The underlying message of the movie: Has this been discussed already? I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thread but, well, I guess I'm not that sorry because if I was then I'd have read it. Let's just say that I appologize if my decision to not read the whole thread causes you some discomfort.
There was an aspect of the movie that bothered me. The way the movie seemed to be saying that an imperfect world needs the sort of hero who isn't going to do what's right, but will do what is necessary. It seemed to say " by any means necessary" For example, Batman used technology to invade people's privacy in order to get the criminal. That is the justification for organizations like the NSA tapping phones without the owner's knowledge.
Yes, in the film it was frowned upon, Morgan Freeman quit because of it, and Batman destroyed the system as soon as he found what he needed. In this case it is easy to argue that he had just cause to invade privacy and use something like that, but ethically was it right, was it justified? For something to be ethical it has to be justifiable by terms that can withstand any and all circumstances. Is it ever right to listen in on people like that?
Was the movie trying to soften the shock of the possibility that people are doing something like this, because they think they have a good reason, because they want to protect us against an emeny threat? If only the world were so simple to have such a purely evil villain as The Joker. Did that surveillance scene disturb anyone else, and the way the movie dealt with it? Or the final message of the movie which seemed to say that Batman was what the world needed because he was not the hero everyone w anted, because he would do what the "hero" would not?
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