View Full Version : Should Non-Americans Have a Say in Who leads the US?
Considering the global impact that the US foreign policy has, shouldn't at least a part of the vote for the next US president be decided by The Rest of the World?
If it had been up to us, Bush would never have beaten Gore in 2000, 9/11 would not have happened, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo, Extraordinary rendition...
Have you seen the reception Obama is getting in Europe? McCain never got anything like it.
AceFace
07-25-2008, 08:29 AM
hell, if it had been up to the real american voters, bush wouldn't have been in office. ha!
i don't see how the rest of the world could vote in our elections or have a say, but i do see what you're getting at.
AceFace
07-25-2008, 08:32 AM
also, i like that the speeches Obama is giving over there are all about busting up social prejudices and racism along with unity among countries. I can't see McCain giving those speeches and coming across as sincere.
hell, if had been up to the real american voters, bush wouldn't have been in office. ha!They voted him in TWICE!
i don't see how the rest of the world could vote in our elections or have a say, but i do see what you're getting at.
I don't know, some sort of internet ballot, or something. It wouldn't have to actually influence the vote, just the voters... not that most of the people who allegedly voted for Bush actually give a stuff about the people and places that his foreign policy have affected.
mikizee
07-25-2008, 08:39 AM
The US (not America - that's a continent - not a country) has a lot to repair in terms of foreign relations due to Bush. Hopefully Obama gets in.
The Bush administration has done so much damage to rest-of-world relations its not funny. It will take a long time to repair.
After all, terrorism attacks upon the US were not caused by hatred of the West but by bad US foreign policy decade after decade.
Lets hope Obama does some good.
But I'm not holding my breath.
mikizee
07-25-2008, 08:41 AM
Bush wasn't voted in twice.
Elections were rigged. Spend 5 minutes digging, there's a wealth of information.
AceFace
07-25-2008, 08:47 AM
^ that's what i was getting at.
RobMoney$
07-25-2008, 09:44 AM
If it had been up to us, Bush would never have beaten Gore in 2000, 9/11 would not have happened, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo, Extraordinary rendition...
LOLZ.
Not even worth an intelligent response.
ms.peachy
07-25-2008, 10:44 AM
What do you mean by a "say", Ali? Should they get to vote on it? No, I don't think so. Should they be allowed to express their opinions about who they think would make the best leader? Yes of course, but they can already do that. So what are you proposing?
Whatitis
07-25-2008, 12:09 PM
9/11 would not have happened
HA!
I got a chuckle out of that one.
Schmeltz
07-27-2008, 05:33 PM
Perhaps non-Americans should simply play by the USA's own rules and resort to the same methods that American administrations and agencies have employed in the past in order to have their own say in the administrative character of foreign nations - you know, secretly financing, training, and arming extremist opposition groups, performing covert assassinations and unacknowledged military black ops, and of course out-and-out invasive warfare. That would probably have more impact than an international vote.
Seriously though: stop pretending that Bush is neither the President Americans wanted or deserved, and start ensuring that his legacy remains one of shame, failure, and - if there is any sense of justice left in your country - criminal proceedings.
Documad
07-27-2008, 07:42 PM
US citizens don't like foreigners telling them what to do.
yeahwho
07-27-2008, 08:18 PM
Seriously though: stop pretending that Bush is neither the President Americans wanted or deserved, and start ensuring that his legacy remains one of shame, failure, and - if there is any sense of justice left in your country - criminal proceedings.
You know I agree with you 100% here and every citizen I hang with, including my parents and grandparents.
I was with my 82 year old grandfather earlier today (WWII vet) and I reminded him he should probably remove his 1-20-09 (http://images.cafepress.com/product/239727389v4_150x150_Front.jpg) button before going to dinner with his conservative son-in-law who married my sister.
Fuck I just don't get it, I mean I do live here in Seattle and recognize we're ever so slightly more left leaning than some of the country, but c'mon, this guy has destroyed our whole idea of freedom for the profitability of the few.
It's obvious. WTF? lamerz.
RobMoney$
07-27-2008, 09:50 PM
A Presidential Profiteer if you will.
chromium05
07-28-2008, 02:48 AM
US citizens don't like foreigners telling them what to do.
Hmmm...and all those foreigners like the US telling THEM what to do? And then bombing them if they don't like it? Or using the World Bank and the IMF to bleed them dry?
Unfortunately, it isn't just the US. It's the UK and Israel too.
And double unfortunately - Obama's advisor is Zbigniew Brzezinski. If ANY of you don't know who he is - I suggest you start looking NOW becasue the future US foreign and domestic policy is right there in that guy.
So please - don't anyone try and convince themselves or anyone else that Obama is the right choice or is going to make any difference whatsoever. He isn't. Just a continuation.
What do you mean by a "say", Ali? Should they get to vote on it? No, I don't think so. Should they be allowed to express their opinions about who they think would make the best leader? Yes of course, but they can already do that. So what are you proposing?
Sanctions.
HA!
I got a chuckle out of that one.Chuckle away. I have heard a commentator say that Obama's lead would be cut to zero if 'something big' were to happen in the run up to the election.
Prepare for 'something big'.
ms.peachy
07-29-2008, 06:42 AM
Sanctions.
Against whom? The US, if we don't vote the way other countries want us to? What government is going to do that, that doesn't already?
What's good for the goose...
The US is the first to interfere in the internal affairs of Nations which do things it doesn't agree with (in their OWN territories), so why should the US be allowed to do what it likes wherever it likes and not be hit with penalties?
Global influence should invite global response. If US voters knew that voting for a Hawk-Puppet would hurt their own economy, they might consider the more moderate leader.
ms.peachy
07-29-2008, 07:14 AM
What's good for the goose...
The US is the first to interfere in the internal affairs of Nations which do things it doesn't agree with (in their OWN territories), so why should the US be allowed to do what it likes wherever it likes and not be hit with penalties?
Oh right on, two wrongs make a right, good thinking, can't see why I didn't get that in the first place.
Global influence should invite global response. If US voters knew that voting for a Hawk-Puppet would hurt their own economy, they might consider the more moderate leader.
You're so right Ali; Americans are soooo not thinking about the economy in making their voting decisions, especially right now. Jeez, someone really ought to tell them!
Glad we agree that messing with another country's affairs because you think that they are wrong is a bad thing.
ms.peachy
07-29-2008, 08:20 AM
Glad we agree that messing with another country's affairs because you think that they are wrong is a bad thing.
In general. There are exceptions, in extreme circumstances. But yes I do think that applying UN sanctions to a country whose government has been elected in a free and fair democratic election would indeed be wrong.
Chuckle away. I have heard a commentator say that Obama's lead would be cut to zero if 'something big' were to happen in the run up to the election.
Prepare for 'something big'.
"commentators" say lots of things in election years
chromium05
07-29-2008, 09:21 AM
"commentators" say lots of things in election years
What - like Israel possibly destroying an American ship in the Persian Gulf and planting "evidence" pointing the blame at Iran (http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2008/07/24/if-iran-is-attacking-it-might-really-be-israel/) like they did the USS Liberty in 1967?
or "if a democrat is elected there will be another 9/11," that kind of thing
yeahwho
07-29-2008, 08:17 PM
What - like Israel possibly destroying an American ship in the Persian Gulf and planting "evidence" pointing the blame at Iran (http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2008/07/24/if-iran-is-attacking-it-might-really-be-israel/) like they did the USS Liberty in 1967?
That sort of stuff gives me the creeps, you now this whole thing about Non-Americans having a say in our leader isn't all of that big of a deal as far as Arabs.
Barack Who? (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0722/p01s07-wome.html)
Mideast Sees More of the Same if Obama Is Elected
(http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/22/world/middleeast/22mideast.html?_r=3&ref=politics&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)
Mr. Obama “will be no different than Bush,” said Moatasem Hussein, 34, who sold nuts from a shop on a street corner in east Amman.
“What’s going to be different?” said Jasser Shehadi, 40, who sold shoes in the shop next door. “They are all the same.”
Across the street, Muhammad al-Banna, 41, said: “Obama is excellent. He is direct. He is like the successor to J.F.K.”
Instantly, Khaled Attiat, a carpenter working in an open storefront, jumped into the conversation. “Oh, come on,” he shouted. “They are all as bad as each other.”
Mr. Banna replied, “Yes they are all bad, but still, Obama might be a little less bad.”
The reaction was similar in Egypt which, like Jordan, is one of America’s closest allies in the region.
“For me it doesn’t matter that he’s black or his name is Hussein,” said Ahmed Amin, 34, as he drank a beer in a downtown Cairo bar. “He’s an American, and so I disagree with most of what he says about the Arab world. I mean, Condoleezza Rice was black and poor, and she still invaded Iraq.”
In general. There are exceptions, in extreme circumstances. But yes I do think that applying UN sanctions to a country whose government has been elected in a free and fair democratic election would indeed be wrong.Like when Hamas was elected to govern Palestine?
adzud
07-31-2008, 10:26 AM
The fact is that, in Europe, at least in France, the only media feedback we have about your elections is the progress made if Obama would be elected (speaking about racial progress, symbols....) added to the fact that you still have the dumbest president ever (except maybe for our new one, who brings France in such a social regression...). We also have a more or less two-party system, so Obama or not, the european opinion would be to change. I think Clinton would have won in Europe if she had to face McCain.
By that I mean that, unless if we're deep in politics, we don't know shit about the programs of your candidates, except maybe what they said about what to do in Iraq, or very hot international topics.
Simply, from our point of view, considering US history, it would be great for you to have a black president, and elect a democrat for social progress. That's why, I think, Obama is so appreciated in Europe.
And... Documad, you don't like foreigners tell the US citizens what to do, but you do like tell the foreigners what to do, don't you ???
DroppinScience
07-31-2008, 10:31 AM
And... Documad, you don't like foreigners tell the US citizens what to do, but you do like tell the foreigners what to do, don't you ???
You clearly don't know Documad very well. Her post was sarcastic.
adzud
07-31-2008, 10:34 AM
No, I don't... sorry if I don't get the sarcasms, I'm trying first to understand and be understood in English...
AceFace
07-31-2008, 10:47 AM
The fact is that, in Europe, at least in France, the only media feedback we have about your elections is the progress made if Obama would be elected (speaking about racial progress, symbols....) added to the fact that you still have the dumbest president ever (except maybe for our new one, who brings France in such a social regression...). We also have a more or less two-party system, so Obama or not, the european opinion would be to change. I think Clinton would have won in Europe if she had to face McCain.
By that I mean that, unless if we're deep in politics, we don't know shit about the programs of your candidates, except maybe what they said about what to do in Iraq, or very hot international topics.
Simply, from our point of view, considering US history, it would be great for you to have a black president, and elect a democrat for social progress. That's why, I think, Obama is so appreciated in Europe.
And... Documad, you don't like foreigners tell the US citizens what to do, but you do like tell the foreigners what to do, don't you ???
very informative and smart post. :)
ms.peachy
07-31-2008, 11:27 AM
Like when Hamas was elected to govern Palestine?
Yes, actually.
chromium05
07-31-2008, 03:10 PM
added to the fact that you still have the dumbest president ever (except maybe for our new one, who brings France in such a social regression...).
Adzud - you might want to read this (http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_27642.shtml) If you scroll half way down the page - it is in the original French language.
adzud
07-31-2008, 03:57 PM
Wow...
I knew some of these informations, but not the international links,
the CIA things and so...
He's falling down in the opinion, something like 65 %, of unsatisfied citizens, but it's too late. I told them before the election !!!
Sponsored by Condoleezza Rice, fishing with Bush, and when Obama came, he said "Barack's my mate". Have you said opportunist ?
Thanks for the link, very interesting and reassuring to see that the rest of the world knows the truth about him !
adzud
07-31-2008, 04:03 PM
By the way Chromium, it's a cool blog you've got !
And I like your sounds
;)
Gazrock
08-07-2008, 08:32 AM
I'm pretty sure I remember hearing about apathetic/uninterested US voters allowing folk from the rest of thw world the opportunity to persuade them to vote one way or the other via a webiste for the last election. May have been just a dream I had though.
ms.peachy
08-07-2008, 08:36 AM
Yes I think I do recall that the voters of Ohio and Pennsylvania who received letters from Guardian readers telling them who to vote for really, really appreciated the input, and were ever so grateful.
Gazrock
08-07-2008, 08:57 AM
hoho
Yes I think I do recall that the voters of Ohio and Pennsylvania who received letters from Guardian readers telling them who to vote for really, really appreciated the input, and were ever so grateful.
yeah, that was counterproductive to say the least
i do think non-americans ought to be able to engage in reasonable dialogue with americans about how our choice of leaders affects the world outside our borders but the problem is a lot of americans are stubborn motherfuckers and a lot of non-americans are condescending bastards who hate stubborn americans, so these discussions often result in nothing good
vBulletin® v3.6.7, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.