McCain/Palin 08

[King PSYZ]

well now, talk about pandering to the PUMAs and Bitter Clinton suporters...

so now we have a 44 y/o Female as the vice with a staunch feminist stance, aka just what the PUMAs are...

incredible pandering at work here, and they talk about experience? just three years ago she was a small town alaskan mayor.

[alien autopsy]

i get the feeling mccain tapped her because shes hot...at least from the neck up, havent seen how fat she is or isnt

[saz]

she previously praised obama's energy plan:


Alaska Gov. And Longshot McCain VP Praises Obama's Energy Plan (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/05/alaska-gov-and-longshot-m_n_116974.html)

The governor praised Obama for, among other things, calling for the completion of the Alaska natural gas pipeline and proposing $1,000 rebates for families struggling with energy costs.

Republican Alaska Governor Sarah Palin:

"We in Alaska feel that crunch and are taking steps to address it right here at home," Palin's press release read. "This is a tool that must be on the table to buy us time until our long-term energy plans can be put into place. We have already enjoyed the support of Alaska Senator Ted Stevens, and it is gratifying to see Senator Obama get on board."

[AceFace]

she also supports oil drilling in the alaskan wildlife areas. that's obviously one reason to chose her.

[King PSYZ]

I just find it odd that out of all the names being thrown out hers never was, well that's because she only has 2 years in state/ntl government and before that her experience was as a mayor. But if the pundits were doing their job, they would have seen McSame was all but locked to give the PUMAs what they want by giving them more of an excuse to vote for him by tapping that feminist rage.

The other choice was ex democrat Lieberman, but seems the power players in the GOP put the kibosh on that, and any real dem knows Lieberman was a dem in name only.

[DroppinScience]

PUMA, what's that?

Anyways, it seems both campaigns are wanting to "balance" their ticket. Obama, a young inexperienced senator, choosing someone old who's been in Washington for 30+ years. McCain, older than the Grand Canyon and in Washington for 25+ years, choosing someone young and EXTREMELY inexperienced (who, I've read also has had a somewhat controversial first two years as governor of Alaska).

I guess either way the winning ticket will be historic. Black president or woman VP. I guess it's a matter of seeing whether racism or sexism will scare enough people away more. :p

P.S. - Also, to me, there's a palpable sense of "Palin WHO?!?" to this pick. Maybe it'll be advantageous in the long run, maybe it'll be a flop. Time will tell.

[alien autopsy]

wow. shes smoking hot. im voting mccain/palin '08!

[QueenAdrock]

Surprisingly, a lot of the Clinton supporters' comments on CNN state how they can see through McCain's obvious attempt at getting their votes by just throwing a woman on the ticket. A lot of them are more intelligent than what I would have taken them for....

But lol at him picking a running mate with SO LITTLE experience! Can we say hypocrisy? I wonder how this will play out. Especially when you consider McCain already has one foot in the grave, so people have to take into consideration HER being president quite seriously. Either way, the VP debates are going to be hilariously awesome now.

[King PSYZ]

PUMA = Party Unity My Ass

[cookiepuss]

Surprisingly, a lot of the Clinton supporters' comments on CNN state how they can see through McCain's obvious attempt at getting their votes by just throwing a woman on the ticket.

yep that's pretty much how I perceived it when I heard the news. But I was never really a Clinton supporter so to speak. I just think it's a dirty ploy.

[alien autopsy]

she really doesnt have that much more experience than obama

[King PSYZ]

the VP debates will be the awesome, Biden is gonna wipe the floor with Palin. People think that McCain out debated Obama, you just wait for this showdown kids... Bring some popcorn.

[King PSYZ]

OMG McCain is insane...

Says his pick has executive experience, then goes on to mention she's a union member, and married to one... she was a good point guard in high school, she knows how much groceries and gas cost (since McCain doesn't that might come in handy...), then onto mayor, and governor, and now here...

So where's that executive experience John? Sounds like she's just kinda floated into her position as a possible VP because she has a vagina and happens to be a Republican... I bet he would have picked Hillary if he could have.

Oh and Palin talking is rich, awww her being the VP nom is her anniversarry present... And they're high school sweethearts, and he's a union steelworker who works in the oil fields, and oh how heartfelt her son joined the army on September 11th (is she related to Guilliani?) btw that prompted on the jock contingent to chant USA USA USA...

She never sought out govenrment until the PTA elected her to city council and eventually the mayor and that somehow led to her being governor and now possible VP?

Oh wait she's already used Obama's windfall profits plan in Alaksa, didn't McCain just blast that plan recently? Then she blasts the bridge to nowhere, saying if our state wanted a bridge we'd build it ourselves... Does she know it was her states Congressman who got that whole thing started?

[Burnout18]

Oh wait she's already used Obama's windfall profits plan in Alaksa, didn't McCain just blast that plan recently?

wait where did u hear/see that?

[King PSYZ]

In her acceptance speach just now she clearly said she saw that the oil companies were making record profits off soaring gas prices and gave it back to the people of Alaska...

I can't wait to hear the backpedalling on this one...

[Burnout18]

oooooo kay, i missed that part. Liked the part where i learned PTA member=alaskan governor

[King PSYZ]

I am joining the PTA tomorrow! Maybe I'll get lucky and Obama will get tired of Biden in 4 years and he can pick me as his running mate!

Who better to connect with the white middle class many think he alienates by getting a white middle class dude as his VP?!

Hell I'm fat and have tattoos too, it would be a lock.

[kaiser soze]

This is an interesting combo, I fear for her.

I highly doubt they will be a match made in heaven and he won't have the time of day for her once in office. She will fight for respect from him and her constituents. Could this also open the way for a future governor of Alaska who will give in to every whim of the GOP and their bloodthirsty quest for oil?

I gotta say this ticket is definitely a 1up for Obama and Biden at this time

Obama's speech was spectacular

[kaiser soze]

P.S.

If an McCain becomes sick, guess who becomes president....a very inexperienced person. Woman or Man, this nation deserves better

Hell she wasn't even interested in the V.P. position not too long ago saying it is pretty much a useless position

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080829/pl_politico/12969

[ms.peachy]

Honestly, as crazy a choice as it seems to me, it sure does add interest to an already riveting election season. My first thought too was that it seems an awfully obvious ploy for Hilary diehards, but blimey, I will sure keep on paying attention to see where this crazy bus drives us all to.

[King PSYZ]

It should all do wonders for the news networks ratings... this shit is gonna be better than the hills(n)

[saz]

from crooks and liars (http://www.crooksandliars.com/):



• Palin is the least qualified and experienced running mate in the history of the office, having served a total of 20 months in office, and with no national experience (http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm).

• Does anyone really want Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency should McCain become unable to serve?

• Although known as a reformer, Palin is a product of the corrupt Alaskan political machine, and is even under criminal investigation herself for abusing the power of her office.

• Can she possibly face off against Joe Biden on any issue?

• She pronounces “nuclear” like George Bush. I knew that the GOP ticket wanted to continue Bush’s policies….but four more years of Bushisms too!?



Rahm Emanuel pretty much sums it up (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Rahm_Panic.html?showall):

“After trying to make experience the issue of this campaign, John McCain celebrated his 72nd birthday by appointing a former small town mayor and brand new Governor as his Vice Presidential nominee. Is this really who the Republican Party wants to be one heartbeat away from the Presidency? Given Sarah Palin’s lack of experience on every front and on nearly every issue, this Vice Presidential pick doesn’t show judgement: it shows political panic.”



Andrew Sullivan (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/a-war-time-vice.html) (an independent conservative) says:

Now compare McCain’s pick with Obama’s: a man with solid foreign policy experience, six terms in Washington and real relationships with leaders across the globe.

One pick is by a man of judgment; the other is by a man of vanity.[..]

McCain has just told us how seriously he takes the war we are in. Not seriously at all.



MSNBC has a good pro/con rundown (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/29/1304605.aspx).

[kaiser soze]

McSame/Panic 08

[King PSYZ]

oh oh oh





DON'T PALIN.

[Whatitis]

weak

Better than having to hear 'McSame/Pawlenty of it'. Couldn't wait to see that one from this board if that pick happened.

Oh so predictable.

[saz]

boohoo, it's a pathetic pick, by a pathetic candidate. it's not our fault republican rule and their policies have been a complete and utter disaster. we're just pointing it all out.

[Whatitis]

With all the 'elitist' talk. She is probably the least 'elitist' of any of the candidates.

[kaiser soze]

I think it's funny that is mccain did choose her to win Hillary supporters they have another thing coming by thinking Hillary supporters are so shallow to just up and pick a woman just because she is a woman

That is the only thing this woman has in common with Hillary...being a woman

[Bob]

I think it's funny that is mccain did choose her to win Hillary supporters they have another thing coming by thinking Hillary supporters are so shallow to just up and pick a woman just because she is a woman

That is the only thing this woman has in common with Hillary...being a woman

i'd like to think that their thought process was a little more sophisticated than that but...yeah i think you're right, i think they might just actually be that out of touch

[yeahwho]

She is a much better choice than the last three choices by republican presidential candidates, Dan Quayle, George H Bush sr. and Dick Cheney. Those three may of had experience, but they were soaking in creepiness factor.

The debates will have a weird duality to them. kind of like two TV networks with the same sitcom premise competing for the ratings.

McCain sort of reminds me of Donald Trump on this one, if we could only change the title Vice President to the Apprentice.

[RobMoney$]

Looks like McCain just took the "Change" card away from Obama.

Is it pandering to the disenfranchised Hillary supporters, sure it is,...but you have to respect the fact that McCain is playing this game to win too. No matter who you support, the more of a challange this race becomes, the better the winner will be for having fought it, and the ultimate winners will be the American people because we will get the best possible candidate for the job.

To me it really doesn't matter what the circumstances are that led to these historic changes in the Presidential campaigns, what matters is that walls are being knocked down and history is being made and that is a very exciting thing to be a part of.

Kudos to McCain for thinking outside the box.

[ThatGuy]

McCain truly has fucked himself!! Obama is looking better all the time...

[Bob]

Is it pandering to the disenfranchised Hillary supporters, sure it is,...

and apparently it worked...

[RobMoney$]

and apparently it worked...

Hey, I've made my support for McCain public long before this was announced. I'm not supporting him because of this. Like I said, I like the fact that he's thinking outside the box.

I guess I'm just happy it wasn't Romney.

[saz]

really? i think romney would've been a much stronger pick. he governed massachusetts as a very moderate republican and was relatively successful, turning a deficit into a surplus.

[kaiser soze]

Huh, looks like she is under investigation for abuse of power.....oh wait, that's a qualification she needs to run with the GOP

http://www.ktva.com/ci_10026165

Also, I bet some of the "traditional" GOPs are thrilled about this....well, her husband has connections to the oil industry

[Bob]

really? i think romney would've been a much stronger pick. he governed massachusetts as a very moderate republican and was relatively successful, turning a deficit into a surplus.

i wouldn't say he was that moderate. gay marriage is legal in massachusetts despite mitt romney, he fought to keep it out.

[kaiser soze]

mccain steals Van Halen "Right Now"

http://newsroom.mtv.com/2008/08/29/van-halen-none-too-thrilled-about-john-mccain-using-right-now/

[RobMoney$]

I saw him in a few debates and McCain made him look silly.
His personality was horrible, just seemed like the typical slimey, self-serving politician to me.

He did seem sharp on business related topics, but in a slimey sort of way.

[kaiser soze]

palin baby swap?

http://www.reddit.com/comments/6f3nq/coverup_alaska_gov_palin_r_announced_she_was

So did she lie? Did her teenage daughter have a child?

the plot will thicken

[RobMoney$]

Kaiser, DUDE, ...quit spamming.

[QueenAdrock]

It does make you think, though. If Palin was a male with the same qualifications, would he have been picked? I mean, a governor who's had 20 months of experience reigning over a state that has more reindeer than people? Before that, was a mayor of a city of less than 7,000 people? And before that, was a Miss Alaska runner-up?

Well, I guess a male couldn't have that last "qualification," but still. Gimme a break! I know that Hillary supporters voted for her because she had a good head on her shoulders, championed issues such as health care, had experience with foreign policy and other national issues, and was a strong female candidate that stood for what they believed in. By throwing Palin into the mix, he basically is saying that he thinks Hillary supporters are idiots who will vote for anything in a skirt. Apparently he thinks that Hillary supporters voted for her because she had a vagina, rather than the fact that it was HILLARY, a specific woman with a specific purpose that they believed in.

Honestly, this will just prove to validate the ideas of the Hillary supporters who already made the cross-over, but won't do much to court the "on the fence" supporters who haven't made up their minds.

[kaiser soze]

Kaiser, DUDE, ...quit spamming.

dude, you've been trolling along so suck it up

[King PSYZ]

If McCain introduced a male with those qualifications they would have laughed him off the stage and demanded to know where alan funt was...

[RobMoney$]

She (http://nicedeb.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/palin-in-the-car.jpg) looks like Tina Fey (http://media.rd.com/rd/images/rdc/mag0804/tina-fey-01-af.jpg)

...which isn't a bad thing.

[Bob]

obama's hotter

[Dorothy Wood]

her hair is ridiculous, looks like she's going to the junior prom.

[Bob]

she's the harriet miers of vice presidents

[Dorothy Wood]

I can't wait til they give her a makeover! it will be all over the news!

I just saw a snippet of her on t.v. and apparently she thinks her newborn son with down syndrome is so far "awesome" and is plenty glad she didn't abort him.

she also shoots guns and eats caribou!

down with dead babies, up with guns! I'm in love.

[abcdefz]

But lol at him picking a running mate with SO LITTLE experience! Can we say hypocrisy? I wonder how this will play out. Especially when you consider McCain already has one foot in the grave, so people have to take into consideration HER being president quite seriously. Either way, the VP debates are going to be hilariously awesome now.




Basically, McCain just lost. Or, I should say: it's now Obama's election to lose.

This may be the one time so far that the VP choice actually mattered. Maybe if McCain were 50 years old this would fly, but not at 72
or whatever he is.

[QueenAdrock]

McCain-Palin '08! (http://www.mrsanotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/anna-nicole-marshall.jpg)

[jennyb]

wow. shes smoking hot. im voting mccain/palin '08!

^ honestly, this is my fear how some simpletons will vote - but Bob said it best...

obama's hotter

Really though, McCain has had bouts with CANCER for god's sake and he's the oldest nominee EVER and his first major call on a Presidential level is this? Oh my god, he really just does NOT get it. If my country elects this man, they have their heads square up their asses and I am seriously considering jumping ship.

[ericg]

Who is Sarah Palin? Here's some basic background:

* She was elected Alaska's governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage. She has no foreign policy experience.
1
* Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.
2
* She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000.
3
* Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.
4
* She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.
5
* She's solidly in line with John McCain's "Big Oil first" energy policy. She's pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won't be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species—she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.
6
* How closely did John McCain vet this choice? He met Sarah Palin once at a meeting. They spoke a second time, last Sunday, when he called her about being vice-president. Then he offered her the position.
7

This is information the American people need to see. Please take a moment to forward this email to your friends and family.


We also asked Alaska MoveOn members what the rest of us should know about their governor. The response was striking.
Here's a sample:

She is really just a mayor from a small town outside Anchorage who has been a governor for only 1.5 years, and has ZERO national and international experience. I shudder to think that she could be the person taking that 3AM call on the White House hotline, and the one who could potentially be charged with leading the US in the volatile international scene that exists today. —Rose M.
, Fairbanks, AK

She is VERY, VERY conservative, and far from perfect. She's a hunter and fisherwoman, but votes against the environment again and again. She ran on ethics reform, but is currently under investigation for several charges involving hiring and firing of state officials. She has NO experience beyond Alaska. —Christine B.
, Denali Park, AK

As an Alaskan and a feminist, I am beyond words at this announcement. Palin is not a feminist, and she is not the reformer she claims to be. —Karen L.
, Anchorage, AK

Alaskans, collectively, are just as stunned as the rest of the nation. She is doing well running our State, but is totally inexperienced on the national level, and very much unequipped to run the nation, if it came to that. She is as far right as one can get, which has already been communicated on the news. In our office of thirty employees (dems, republicans, and nonpartisans), not one person feels she is ready for the V.P. position.—Sherry C.
, Anchorage, AK

She's vehemently anti-choice and doesn't care about protecting our natural resources, even though she has worked as a fisherman. McCain chose her to pick up the Hillary voters, but Palin is no Hillary. —Marina L.
, Juneau, AK

I think she's far too inexperienced to be in this position. I'm all for a woman in the White House, but not one who hasn't done anything to deserve it. There are far many other women who have worked their way up and have much more experience that would have been better choices. This is a patronizing decision on John McCain's part- and insulting to females everywhere that he would assume he'll get our vote by putting "A Woman" in that position.—Jennifer M.
, Anchorage, AK

So Governor Palin is a staunch anti-choice religious conservative. She's a global warming denier who shares John McCain's commitment to Big Oil. And she's dramatically inexperienced.


In picking Sarah Palin, John McCain has made the religious right very happy. And he's made a very dangerous decision for our country.

[ericg]

this is a fuckin' joke

[yeahwho]

The republicans now differ in the democrats, rather than change and experience, you'll get experience and change.

you choose, that's what makes us the greatest nation on earth..

[yeahwho]

I can't wait til they give her a makeover! it will be all over the news!

I just saw a snippet of her on t.v. and apparently she thinks her newborn son with down syndrome is so far "awesome" and is plenty glad she didn't abort him.

she also shoots guns and eats caribou!

down with dead babies, up with guns! I'm in love.

Paris Hilton has got to be just fuming, talk about getting dumped.

[RobMoney$]

I have to laugh at the heated posts criticizing Palin's lack of experience. She has almost the same exact qualifications as Obama, (she's actually done much more in her 2 years as Gov. than Obama has in his 3 in Senate) yet Obama's been a Senator for exactly one more year than Palin and he's magically more than qualified to be our next President.

This Palin is making Obamanation look like a bunch of hipocrates and I think the fact that she's not "elite" is making you all choke on your wheatgrass smoothies.

[funk63]

4
* She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.
.

We aren't.

[yeahwho]

I have to laugh at the heated posts criticizing Palin's lack of experience. She has almost the same exact qualifications as Obama, (she's actually done much more in her 2 years as Gov. than Obama has in his 3 in Senate) yet Obama's been a Senator for exactly one more year than Palin and he's magically more than qualified to be our next President.


what is a wheatgrass smoothie?

Palin (http://www.votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=27200)

Obama (http://www.votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=9490)

Palin's voting record (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Sarah_Palin%27s_voting_record)

Obama's voting record (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490)

Even more interesting is Biden's voting record (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53279)

[QueenAdrock]

This Palin is making Obamanation look like a bunch of hipocrates and I think the fact that she's not "elite" is making you all choke on your wheatgrass smoothies.

Is Hipocrates related to Socrates?

If you want to talk about hypocrites, though, how about lookin' at your boy McCain? Who's been harping on Obama for being inexperienced for these past few months? Obama has sound judgment and good ideas and is a fresh face in Washington. He has experience on a national level, he has had to work with other leaders in the Senate for 4 years now. Before that, he worked in the Illinois state senate. No, that's not a lot, but it's enough to make me secure in my vote for him. However, Grandpa's come out against him in the charges that he's not ready to lead. That's his number one attack ad against him. His second ad? The one about him being a celebrity. Yet, tell me, who was in the Miss Alaska pageant? That's not celebrity status for ya? And he brings someone into the race who has even LESS experience than Obama? How can you sit here and call us hypocrites when McCain has said one thing and done another so obviously? Does that not make him a hypocrite too?

Experience doesn't mean much to me in the long run, it's whether or not I think they're ready to lead. Obama's experience in the Senate, combined with his ideas, intelligence, judgment and everything else has gotten my vote. I wasn't sure about him until just early this year; he had to earn my vote. Palin is just amazing though. Honestly, if Obama only had 20 months of experience governing over a state that has such a small population it's ridiculous, I'd be terribly insecure about voting for him. She better do all she can to convince the voters that "experience doesn't matter," just like Obama did. Honestly, I don't think she can do it. We'll see.

And fyi, if "Obamatons" were so worried about voting for someone who was "elitist" they'd be voting for Mr. "I can't remember how many houses I have because me and my millionaire wife own way too many to count."

[Bob]

If you want to talk about hypocrites, though, how about lookin' at your boy McCain? Who's been harping on Obama for being inexperienced for these past few months?

hmm, see i don't think you understand. it turns out that you're the hypocrite for calling out mccain on calling out obama on being inexperienced and turning around and selecting an inexperienced VP to serve with him and take over the helm after his inevitable heart attack. in other words, you aren't allowed to pay attention to his hypocrisy, or you yourself are the hypocrite. really a genius move by mccain, i have to tip my hat to him, he's got his bases covered

i'm not a politician, but how exactly does one become ready to be president? what kind of experience is applicable to presidency? is being a senator anything at all like being a president? once you become a president, how long does it take to get the hang of it? in other words what does "experience" actually mean?

[RobMoney$]

i'm not a politician, but how exactly does one become ready to be president? what kind of experience is applicable to presidency? is being a senator anything at all like being a president? once you become a president, how long does it take to get the hang of it? in other words what does "experience" actually mean?

I would expect a young, twenty-something to say something like that. You don't value experience because you don't have any,...life experience that is.

You get experience on being President by maybe being Vice President?



Seems to me it'd make more sense to have an up & comer as VP than President. I think Obama would make a fine VP, as I do Palin. Both of their resume's seem tailor-made for the job actually.

[Bob]

I would expect a young, twenty-something to say something like that. You don't value experience because you don't have any,...life experience that is.

You get experience on being President by maybe being Vice President?



Seems to me it'd make more sense to have an up & comer as VP than President. I think Obama would make a fine VP, as I do Palin. Both of their resume's seem tailor-made for the job actually.

you're right, you're completely right, i can't compete with your experience, i don't know nearly as much about being president of the united states as you, i shouldn't have opened my mouth

[Documad]

you're right, you're completely right, i can't compete with your experience, i don't know nearly as much about being president of the united states as you, i shouldn't have opened my mouth

You are too funny to be a tax attorney.

[Whatitis]

Wow, a lot of bitterness has come out in this pick. Really. It's a bunch of mudslinging. It sounds aweful. Keep it up.;)

[RobMoney$]

McCain has more life experience than both of us put together. I trust his decision making a tad bit more than Obama, who's only 10 years older than me and has displayed more bad decision making than good for my taste (drug abuse, associations with several sketchy characters whom he's since dismissed during this campaign).

Being a POW, a commanding officer in the military, the Navy's liason to the Senate which led him to enter politics, and nearly 30 years in politics as a Senator, I'd say that's about as much experience as someone can have for the job.

I vote for the old guy with the hot VP who's not afraid to take on big business.

[King PSYZ]

Experience like the Keating 5? Like leaving a newly disabled wife for a rich girl? That's experience you can count on!

[QueenAdrock]

Seems to me it'd make more sense to have an up & comer as VP than President.

Except McCain's 72 years old, and both his father and his grandfather died at ages earlier than this, so it's in his genes. He's had 4 bouts of cancer. With someone with these predominant health risks, it's EXTREMELY important to pick someone who can take over the wheel if you keel over in office. She's one step away from the presidency, and it's not unlikely for McCain to go during his time in office. It's just as important to look at her as "vice president" as it is to look at her as "possible president."

who's not afraid to take on big business.


Um, are you serious?

[Burnout18]

I have to laugh at the heated posts criticizing Palin's lack of experience. She has almost the same exact qualifications as Obama, (she's actually done much more in her 2 years as Gov. than Obama has in his 3 in Senate) yet Obama's been a Senator for exactly one more year than Palin and he's magically more than qualified to be our next President.

Ahh thats why i think mccain unintentionally did obama a favor by picking palin. The right can't go so apeshit over obama's inexperience anymore.

[DroppinScience]

Rob$,

Question for you:

Palin:

-believes in creationism/intelligent design

-is fiercely anti-gun control

-is pro-life and will oppose abortion even in cases of rape and incest

-doesn't believe climate change exists

Now, you have called yourself a "lifelong Democrat." Even though you claim to be more on the "conservative" side, how do these positions sit with you? Are you supporting her BECAUSE of these positions or are you supporting her DESPITE these positions? Or is this completely irrelevant to your support of her.

[RobMoney$]

Ahh thats why i think mccain unintentionally did obama a favor by picking palin. The right can't go so apeshit over obama's inexperience anymore.

I don't think the right will mind Palin's inexperience one tiny bit.

Palin is extremely right-wing.
She's Pro-Life, Pro-NRA, and Pro-Oil.

[RobMoney$]

Rob$,

Question for you:

Palin:

-believes in creationism/intelligent design

-is fiercely anti-gun control

-is pro-life and will oppose abortion even in cases of rape and incest

-doesn't believe climate change exists

I disagree with her on every one of these.

Now, you have called yourself a "lifelong Democrat." Even though you claim to be more on the "conservative" side, how do these positions sit with you? Are you supporting her BECAUSE of these positions or are you supporting her DESPITE these positions? Or is this completely irrelevant to your support of her.

I'd say despite her positions. I don't think a VP's stance on positions will influence policy very much, to be honest.

You put much more weight on policy than I do. I don't just sit down with a piece of paper and make the "agree" and "disagree" columns and support the candidate I agree with more. It's not as black & white as that for me.
Bush is a member of the christian right and is pro-life, yet he hasn't necessarily done anything to overturn Roe v. Wade. So just because a candidate supports a certain issue doesn't necessarily mean they will aggressively carry that position out while in office.

I put a lot of weight on character because not only do I care about how the President will handle the current problems he faces, but how he will handle future problems, such as an unexpected terrorist attack. I feel more comfortable with McCain in charge than I do Obama if something like that were to unexpectedly present itself.

I decide how much I base a candidates stance on policy on a case by case basis. I put more weight on Iraq than say gun control for instance.


I agree with McCain on Iraq. I'd love to bring every one of our troops home and end the war completely. I'd love to bring every one of our troops home from everywhere we have them stationed around the world.
But I realize that's an unrealistic dream and there's a need for military presence to actually help people in various places around the world.

McCain wants to follow the advice of Patreaus and keep a minimal presence in the region, just in case. Seems like a very reasonable plan considering Iraq is far from stable. Pulling everyone out sounds great, but is unrealistic. I mean who is Obama to say he knows better than Gen. Patreaus about what the best course of action is? That's pretty presumptious. I'd say the same thing if Palin were making similar goals for Iraq...she'd have absolutely no credibility to make such a call.
I feel more comfortable with a man who's fought in a war himself and is following the advice of the people in charge of the operation than a first term Senator from Illinois.

[DroppinScience]

Okay, this is a better-than-average reply from you on a direct question. I will fundamentally disagree with you nevertheless, but I'm at least going to come away with a better understanding of what you're about than before.

I'll just address this one point:


Bush is a member of the christian right and is pro-life, yet he hasn't necessarily done anything to overturn Roe v. Wade. So just because a candidate supports a certain issue doesn't necessarily mean they will aggressively carry that position out while in office.


A President can't do much about the abortion issue one way or the other since that's up to the courts. However, presidents can stack up the Supreme Court (and other lower circuits) with pro-life judges and then overturn Roe v. Wade if and when the time comes. Roe v. Wade is already being chipped away at (look at the Frontline special here, "The Last Abortion Clinic" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/clinic/ which shows how individual states have been slowly chipping away at access to abortion throughout the years). Bush has thus far appointed two conservative Justices to the high court. This hasn't changed the balance of the court as they replaced two previous conservatives with new ones so Roe v. Wade has not been challenged... yet.

McCain says he'll continue to appoint Justices in the vein of Roberts or Alito. So this means if a so-called "liberal" justice like Souter, Breyer, or Ginsburg leaves the court, you can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye. Maybe you'll be okay with this, but I hope you do realize this as you continue to support those who do not look out for your best interests.

[QueenAdrock]

I don't see why we can't start taking troops out now, if McCain himself says that "We have succeeded in Iraq." (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/17/mccain-we-have-succeeded-in-iraq/)

Troops need to stay there to make sure everything's okay? So when will things be okay, then? When can everyone come home? McCain doesn't know. (http://the-osterley-times.blogspot.com/2008/05/straight-talk-express-comes-off-rails.html) In that link, he says that they'll be home by 2013. But no, maybe it could be in a few months. Or a few years. He's not setting a date. But definitely by 2013. Or not.

Shit just isn't going well, and they say "Oh, no, it's going great, it's going so well that we need troops there to make sure it's going fabulously." When can the Iraqis step up with their own military and make sure for THEMSELVES that they "keep the peace" or whatever else? Otherwise, America will have to be there forever making sure that they're "stable." At what point do we step out? The country is so fucked up, I don't think it WILL matter when we leave. Whenever we do, they'll have a vacuum there. Nothing we can do will be able to prepare them for it, so why are we staying?

[Documad]

Bush has done everything he can to overturn Roe v. Wade. So will McCain.

The ONLY reason that Bush was unsuccessful is because Justice Stevens is still alive. Justice Stevens is 88 years old. He deserves to retire. :rolleyes:

I understand why evangelicals vote the way they do. I understand why neo cons vote the way they do. I will never understand how someone who voted for Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry can vote for McCain in 2008. McCain in 2008 is not the same guy he was in 2000, even if he somehow survives his potential presidency. I don't see how Obama is a radical departure from other democratic candidates of the past 20 years.

[DroppinScience]

I don't see how Obama is a radical departure from other democratic candidates of the past 20 years.

He's a black secret Muslim with a radical Christian preacher who refuses to wear a flag lapel pin and he's a celebrity who will raise your taxes and invite Britney Spears and Paris Hilton to the White House. That's what McCain told me.

[Documad]

Well Obama is black. That is true.

As for the celebrity part: Bill Clinton brought those Designing Women wackos and Barbra Streisand to the White House! Nothing could be worse than Streisand, except perhaps Madonna.

[RobMoney$]

Okay, this is a better-than-average reply from you on a direct question. I will fundamentally disagree with you nevertheless, but I'm at least going to come away with a better understanding of what you're about than before.

I'll just address this one point:



A President can't do much about the abortion issue one way or the other since that's up to the courts. However, presidents can stack up the Supreme Court (and other lower circuits) with pro-life judges and then overturn Roe v. Wade if and when the time comes. Roe v. Wade is already being chipped away at (look at the Frontline special here, "The Last Abortion Clinic" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/clinic/ which shows how individual states have been slowly chipping away at access to abortion throughout the years). Bush has thus far appointed two conservative Justices to the high court. This hasn't changed the balance of the court as they replaced two previous conservatives with new ones so Roe v. Wade has not been challenged... yet.

McCain says he'll continue to appoint Justices in the vein of Roberts or Alito. So this means if a so-called "liberal" justice like Souter, Breyer, or Ginsburg leaves the court, you can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye. Maybe you'll be okay with this, but I hope you do realize this as you continue to support those who do not look out for your best interests.


See, as soon as I give you a respectful and honest reply, you respond by being condescending.

...as if I didn't understand the impact of Roberts & Alito appointments, and that Bush appionted them and that McCain said Roberts was one of the finest appointments of a SCJ in history.

[RobMoney$]

Bush has done everything he can to overturn Roe v. Wade. So will McCain.

The ONLY reason that Bush was unsuccessful is because Justice Stevens is still alive. Justice Stevens is 88 years old. He deserves to retire. :rolleyes:

I understand why evangelicals vote the way they do. I understand why neo cons vote the way they do. I will never understand how someone who voted for Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry can vote for McCain in 2008. McCain in 2008 is not the same guy he was in 2000, even if he somehow survives his potential presidency. I don't see how Obama is a radical departure from other democratic candidates of the past 20 years.

I heard the same cries that the "Pro-choice sky was falling" when Alito was appointed to Day-O'Connor's spot. It didn't happen.

I knew who Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry were.
They all had a history in politics I was familiar with and I felt comfortable that I knew who they were and what they were about politically.
I had that with Hillary, and I also have that with McCain.
I don't have that with Obama.

To say Obama is fundamentally the same as them is just not true, he's a political infant compared to them. I don't feel comfortable having an infant as our Commander in Chief considering this post 9-11 world we find ourselves in, and that is more important to me than secondary issues such as being Pro-NRA or Pro-Life.
Until the perfect candidate comes along, we are forced to make compromises, and this is how I choose to make mine. Right, Wrong, or Indifferent.

[Documad]

I heard the same cries that the "Pro-choice sky was falling" when Alito was appointed to Day-O'Connor's spot. It didn't happen.
I think that's because the right case hasn't been up there.

And Sandra Day OConnor was appointed by a republican. I've never thought of her as a great liberal light. She only sort of appears that way because of the horrifically bad appointments that followed her (including Clinton's poor choices).

[RobMoney$]

I've never thought of her as a great liberal light. She only sort of appears that way because of the horrifically bad appointments that followed her (including Clinton's poor choices).


...either that or the fact that she was the first woman SCJ in history and therefore was assumed liberal-esque.

Here's an intersteing quote I just found on her Wiki:


Antiabortion and religious groups opposed O'Connor's nomination because they suspected she would not be willing to overturn Roe.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O'Connor#cite_note-8) Senate Republicans, including Don Nickles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Nickles) of Oklahoma, Steve Symms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Symms) of Idaho, and Jesse Helms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms) of North Carolina called into the White House to express their discontent over the nomination; Nickles said he and "other profamily Republican senators would not support" O'Connor.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O'Connor#cite_note-9) For her part, O'Connor refused to telegraph her views on abortion, and she was careful not to leave the impression that she supported abortion rights.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O'Connor#cite_note-10) O'Connor told Reagan she did not remember whether she had voted to repeal Arizona's law banning abortion.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O'Connor#cite_note-11) However, she had cast a preliminary vote in the State Senate of Arizona in 1970 in favor of a bill to repeal the state's criminal abortion statute.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O'Connor#cite_note-12) And in 1974, O'Connor voted against a measure to prohibit abortions in some Arizona hospitals.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O'Connor#cite_note-13)
Reagan wrote in his diary on July 6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_6), 1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981): "Called Judge O'Connor and told her she was my nominee for supreme court. Already the flak is starting and from my own supporters. Right to Life people say she is pro abortion. She says abortion is personally repugnant to her. I think she'll make a good justice." [15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O'Connor#cite_note-14)


So although she found abortion personally repugnant, Roe still stands.
See my point about people's stances on issues not being the be-all and end-all of a candidate. Anyone who opposed her nomination because they percieved her as Pro-Life was pretty much misguided.
Same way I feel about McCain & Palin.

[Documad]

Except that McCain and Palin are on record about wanting abortion to be illegal for everyone. McCain promised to appoint judges that will make that reality. I saw that in the debates just this year.

It's okay. Abortion doesn't have to be your issue. You can vote based upon other issues or no issues at all.

Personally, I didn't know more about Dukakis or Clinton in 1988 or 1992 than I know about Obama today. They all have similar backgrounds -- good education, some limited political experience, etc. They all have taken positions I disagree with. Clinton was the most troubling to me because I knew about all the graft in his and Hillary's past and I was troubled by some decisions he made as governor, like executing someone who was low-functioning -- so low functioning that he apparently decided to save some of his last meal for later. :rolleyes: Then he got elected and made many bad choices in his first term. Oh well, people who I admire never run for president. :p

[yeahwho]

The Palin story is getting bizarre and weird (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/) very fast. Politics are brutal and this is only a few days into the fray. Wow.

The Daily Kos (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223) Sarah Palin Is NOT The Mother [Photos+Video]

[RobMoney$]

You know Yeahwho, you were so appalled by some of the things I posted about Obama, Wright, and Rezko. Now here you are posting links to a story that suggests we closely examine a 16 yr. old girls stomach and breasts, suggesting that she may have been pregnant?

I just love how liberals act as if they're the victims, but have no problems calling Bush every name in the book and closely examining a pic of a teenaged girl's belly and breasts who my be at that awkward stage, as if she wasn't self-concious enough at that age. That story makes me want to find the writer and snap everyone of his fingers in half so he can no longer type shit like that.

Well done Sir.

[yeahwho]

I should be above the fray like you. I'm shocked at this. Not because of anything odd, but if this was happening with Obama you would start a thread and hammer it home with "I told you so".

I'm amazed at how fast this story has hit the internets and with the veracity the shit is flying.

I'm not going to fucking censor myself for your benefit. Like I made this happen. I didn't search for this and I hope it's all bullshit. But it is definitely well worth sharing here.

Someday I'll become the moral equivalent of you RobMoney$, I'll begin to vote republican and condemn all who disagree with my insights, until then you'll have to put up with me as a guy who is just not quite as smart or moral as you. Lagging behind waiting for your approval.

PS, show where I was appalled about your Obama posts?

[RobMoney$]

Dragging people's kids into political race should be met with criticism, regardless of who you're supporting.
I would never post a rumor about one of Obama's kids.

I hope you have a teenaged daughter who's picture gets examined in the same fashion one day.

[RobMoney$]

Bristol is pregnant in these pictures. She is not carrying belly fat, which grows outwardly wide, and does not become dome-shaped. That's because fat is generally evenly distributed around the abdomen and a fetus is not. Bristol's chest is sticking out, a normal body reaction when sucking in stomach muscles.


Very fucking classy.

[yeahwho]

Dragging people's kids into political race should be met with criticism, regardless of who you're supporting.
I would never post a rumor about one of Obama's kids.

I hope you have a teenaged daughter who's picture gets examined in the same fashion one day.

dude, get over yourself, I am just as shocked as you are, if you knew me you would realize that and if you had reading comprehension skills as good as your sanctimonious behavior skills you would re-read my post.

The Palin story is getting bizarre and weird very fast. Politics are brutal and this is only a few days into the fray. Wow.

Your all about condemning me and apparently my family. At every turn on this board. Your not reasonable and your not subjective.

[Bob]

Very fucking classy.

seriously. yeahwho you should be ashamed for writing that

[QueenAdrock]

I don't feel comfortable having an infant as our Commander in Chief considering this post 9-11 world we find ourselves in

I really DON'T see why you're appearing to be just fine with Palin as McCain's running mate then. Like I've said before, Grandpa McCain already has one foot in the grave and will be the oldest president ever elected if he ever pulls it off. She'd be one serious cancer bout away from being president herself. If you honestly think that she'd be a good choice to take over as president, by all means vote for the pair. But with someone his age, it'd be silly NOT to consider the fact that if he dies in office, he needs someone competent and able to take over as his successor.

Qualye was pretty inept himself and Cheney is pretty much satan, but at least their running mates were younger, healthy men who deterred the idea of them ever being president. I honestly don't know if McCain would be able to make it through his presidency.

[kaiser soze]

Destro/Baroness 08

ok these two aren't as cool as Destro and the Baroness (n)

[RobMoney$]

I really DON'T see why you're appearing to be just fine with Palin as McCain's running mate then. Like I've said before, Grandpa McCain already has one foot in the grave and will be the oldest president ever elected if he ever pulls it off. She'd be one serious cancer bout away from being president herself. If you honestly think that she'd be a good choice to take over as president, by all means vote for the pair. But with someone his age, it'd be silly NOT to consider the fact that if he dies in office, he needs someone competent and able to take over as his successor.

Qualye was pretty inept himself and Cheney is pretty much satan, but at least their running mates were younger, healthy men who deterred the idea of them ever being president. I honestly don't know if McCain would be able to make it through his presidency.


Classy.

You know, I really thought one positive thing the uber-liberals had going for them was that they were open-minded and accepting of all people. With statements like this, you're no better than the idiotic closed minds on the far christian right.

What's next, downs syndrome jokes about Palin's baby. I mean she couldn't devote the proper attantion to being VP with a downs baby to look after, right?


Un. be. lieve. able.

[kaiser soze]

You are right....her child needs her attention, not her position of power

Family Values :rolleyes:

[RobMoney$]

dude, get over yourself, I am just as shocked as you are, if you knew me you would realize that and if you had reading comprehension skills as good as your sanctimonious behavior skills you would re-read my post.

The Palin story is getting bizarre and weird very fast. Politics are brutal and this is only a few days into the fray. Wow.

Your all about condemning me and apparently my family. At every turn on this board. Your not reasonable and your not subjective.


Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't have any ill feelings toward you or your family. We debate shit on here regularly and I wouldn't wish anything bad for you or your family.
I obviously said that about your hypothetical daughter to make a point to you. Not that I actually meant it.
I have a 14yo. daughter so it's easy for me to identify with how it must feel for the Palin family to have things like that written about your daughter. It's a disgrace regardless of who you support in this race.

I apologize if I offended you or your family in any way.

[QueenAdrock]

Oh, I'm sorry, age is off-limits? How does talking about health constitute "close-mindedness"? I mean seriously. It's a valid concern. He's had cancer. Four times. He's old. Sorry, it's true. I apologize if my post came off as crass or whatever, but it's true that he a) probably won't make it through his presidency b) has had bouts with cancer and c) isn't in the best health. I don't see how that's not being accepting, or close-minded, but it's true. I love my grandpa tons, but you know what? He's 90 years old and is going to die soon, too. That doesn't mean I don't "accept" him (whatever that even means, I don't know how you can not 'accept' someone due to their health or age), it means I'm a realist.

Now can you respond to the ISSUE rather than attacking me? I know it's hard because you're a GOPer now and probably don't know how to, but if you're so worried about Obama's "inexperience," maybe you should be looking closer to home. If McCain goes, Palin is in office. What do you think of that?

[RobMoney$]

He's 72 not 90, so you can stop writing his obituary. You should change your name to Queen Adrock, Prophet.

Saying it's all but determined that he will die in the next 4 years is assinine.
That's like me saying Obama will likely get assassinated because he's black and I don't think Biden will make a very good president.
It's out of line.

[RobMoney$]

Now can you respond to the ISSUE rather than attacking me? I know it's hard because you're a GOPer now and probably don't know how to, but if you're so worried about Obama's "inexperience," maybe you should be looking closer to home. If McCain goes, Palin is in office. What do you think of that?


See, this is the liberal attitude that makes me laugh.
You're the little ol' victim of the big bad GOP because the GOP are the ones who attack everyone, right?

You're just as bad as the GOP, if not worse. You're the first one to call Bush every name you can think of and you apparently have no problem putting down McCain because he's had cancer and Palin because she's pro-everything you aren't. I think it's hypocritical for someone who fully supports Obama to be questioning the experience of the other nominee's VP.

Fuck this partisan bullshit.

[Bob]

He's 72 not 90, so you can stop writing his obituary. You should change your name to Queen Adrock, Prophet.

Saying it's all but determined that he will die in the next 4 years is assinine.
That's like me saying Obama will likely get assassinated because he's black and I don't think Biden will make a very good president.
It's out of line.

72 is still pretty old. 4-8 years of one of the most stressful jobs on earth will surely be hard on the man?

no, nobody can say for certain that anything will happen but damn, it's not exactly an unreasonable expectation, is it? it's not being pulled out of thin air, i don't see any reason to ignore this problem

[yeahwho]

See, this is the liberal attitude that makes me laugh.
You're the little ol' victim of the big bad GOP because the GOP are the ones who attack everyone, right?

You're just as bad as the GOP, if not worse. You're the first one to call Bush every name you can think of and you apparently have no problem putting down McCain because he's had cancer and Palin because she's pro-everything you aren't. I think it's hypocritical for someone who fully supports Obama to be questioning the experience of the other nominee's VP.

Fuck this partisan bullshit.

I'm puzzled by anybody who thinks Bush has done anything other than destroy the goodwill of the American people abroad and our own social integrity here at home. I would vote for McCain today if it meant George W. Bush left office on Sept. 1, 2008. We're in a huge mess today and it only takes a few more bad ideas to have the treasury notes Japan and China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Foreign_ownership) hold to cash out (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&resnum=0&q=us%20treasury%20notes%20held%20by%20china%20and% 20japan&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn). Then what?

Most everybody agrees that would be bad, really bad (http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/99496.pdf). We're heading this direction quickly with Bush. His neocon dream (http://www.ww4report.com/node/5956)is being realized, by China!

His approval ratings today on the economy are 25% and overall 30%. He is not very good at much of anything as far as I can tell. The GOP can really pick 'em. He is bad news on so many levels, but his international policy has been disastrous. Like a nightmare.

[kaiser soze]

Let us not forget stirring up a new cold war while still failing on finding bin laden

[QueenAdrock]

I think it's hypocritical for someone who fully supports Obama to be questioning the experience of the other nominee's VP.

Well, I've already said that Obama has proved himself to me in other ways and made experience to be a non-issue with me. Since he did lack that experience, he had to earn my vote by making me confident in his voting record, judgment, abilities, and everything else. That's why I'm questioning HER, her judgment, her experience, etc. Are you that confident in her abilities that her experience means nothing to you? I mean, you yourself said that you don't want a "political baby" as president. However, congratulations to you for still not answering the question.

And nowhere did I put down McCain for having cancer. All I said was "he's had four bouts of cancer." Stop acting like you're so appalled by me calling him old and calling him out on having health issues. For someone who has no problem with whipping out the insult of "You fucking half a fag," I don't see how you get so high and mighty and oh so offended by someone saying "Grandpa McCain."

That's like me saying Obama will likely get assassinated because he's black and I don't think Biden will make a very good president.
It's out of line.

Being black doesn't make you more prone to getting shot than anyone else. Being old DOES make you more prone to succumbing to health conditions.
There's a difference, and you know it.

Like Bob said, he has to deal with the most stressful job on earth at age 72. If that makes you all warm and fuzzy inside, so be it. You keep ignoring the question at hand of whether or not you'd be confident in her to call her your next President. With all the hoop-la you've been making over how you want someone with LIFE EXPERIENCE and whatever else, you'd think this would be a bigger issue to you.

[Burnout18]

That's like me saying Obama will likely get assassinated because he's black and I don't think Biden will make a very good president.
It's out of line.

im glad you said that and not me.... lets be honest racism is still alive and well, not only in the deep south, but all over the nation,,,, and well, you never know what some nutcase is going to do to a minority named barack hussein obama.

[RobMoney$]

Being black doesn't make you more prone to getting shot than anyone else.


Now you're just being naive.

Name one person who was the first Black to achieve a certain accomplishment in America that wasn't met with death threats.

Hell, it's already happened with Obama.
Death Threat (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2519869/Barack-Obama-death-threats-Man-charged.html)
KKK death threats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nid7PRNQ5F0)

Will this stop you from voting for him because he could possibly be shot?
It would be out of line for me to even suggest it.
Just as it's disrespectful for you to call McCain "one bout with cancer away from having Palin as the President".

There's a respectful way to raise the issue of his health concerns, you were just throwing mud. There's a difference.

[kaiser soze]

Nice to see domestic terrorists are doing well since bush launched his "war against terror"

hekuva job bushie.......going after grannies and veterans rather than the true terrorists

bush = FAIL

[QueenAdrock]

Now you're just being naive.

Name one person who was the first Black to achieve a certain accomplishment in America that wasn't met with death threats.

Hell, it's already happened with Obama.
Death Threat (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2519869/Barack-Obama-death-threats-Man-charged.html)
KKK death threats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nid7PRNQ5F0)

Will this stop you from voting for him because he could possibly be shot?
It would be out of line for me to even suggest it.
Just as it's disrespectful for you to call McCain "one bout with cancer away from having Palin as the President".

There's a respectful way to raise the issue of his health concerns, you were just throwing mud. There's a difference.

Sure, there's death threats against everyone. Bush had a ton of death threats, and even people who tried to follow through. The most hated president in history was able to live 8 years. You seem to underestimate the secret service and what they have the capability to do. However, even if you brought up the fact that you had fears of him being assassinated wouldn't be "disrespectful." If it's a valid concern based on previous attempts against black politicians/figure heads, then by all means bring up your concerns. However, I am confident in Joe Biden's ability to take over as President. I've seen his record, and have the utmost confidence that he would be a wonderful president. So yes, I'm still voting for Obama, regardless of any kind of risk of him not lasting the entire term in office.

Do you have the same confidence in Palin? You still haven't answered that, 5 posts later.

I still don't see how saying "She'd be one serious cancer bout away from being president," is disrespectful. It's true. If he has a serious cancer scare again, she very well could be president. The way I post, I can come off as crass but I bring up issues along with it, which you have not responded to. Mud-slinging is saying stuff like "Oh, this guy on youtube said that he had to suck Obama's dick off while they smoked crack in the backseat of a limo." That's just trashing him. Saying "John McCain is old, I honestly don't think he'd last the term and Palin would then be president," is not mud-slinging. I apologize if you were deeply offended by me using flippant language to bring about the issue (which I find ironic, seeing as how you have no problem using homophobic insults against my boyfriend every chance you get), but the point is I BROUGHT UP AN ISSUE. Please respond to it.

[Echewta]

The GOP can really pick 'em.

The GOP is to blame? I'm pretty sure the voters are. They picked him.

[Ali]

Why didn't he choose CondaKlingon Rice?

Triple whammy: Black, Female, Experienced...

[QueenAdrock]

She's synonymous with Bush, which is what they're trying to get away from right now.

[Ali]

Bush beat Kerry when Bush was less popular than Satan.

Seems to me that Republicans will vote Republican no matter what and that there are simply more Republicans than Democrats in the US.

Obama will lose because he is a Democrat. If Bush beat Kerry, McCaine will stomp all over poor Obama, especially if there is a conflict somewhere so that he can trade on his military background.

[RobMoney$]

She's synonymous with Bush, which is what they're trying to get away from right now.


That and the fact that she's on loan from Stanford make her a non-candidate.

[Brother Beats]

Palin throw the towel in before its to late.
McCain is a pain to the country and its fate.

Dont be blind use your mind to see.
Its a bind we'll find in a right winged country.

you had your pick of the bunch, the creme of the crop, but you should have chose it better.

Its the pack with a punch, the reason you'll flop, so go write your congratulatory letter.

Obama to be the winner,
and the world will be stretched thinner.

Of the lies, politicians in disguise, i despise, your prize
of democracy

this hypocrisy is no mystery its a delivery of the way you think that it should be.

but let me tell you something to your face not your back no fronting.

Your just hunting and gunning the same ol tune as Bush.

But this time the people are gonna give a push, of resistance, with a little bit of persistence and perseverance were gonna make a change

rearrange the government and get the country out of its cage!

[RobMoney$]

Do you have the same confidence in Palin?

Ok, I'll take the time to answer this as best I can.

She's hot.
She likes to shoot guns.
She's a reformer with a +80% approval rating in her home state.
She's shown independance from her party.
She reeks of working class credibility.
She's a Washington outsider.
She's Pro-Drilling.
She's likeable, engaging, and inspires trust.
She's got more credibility on Energy than "inflate your tires" Obama.
She is more interested in what's best for her constituents than her own political or personal self-interests.
She has a bumper sticker on her car that reads "Vegetarian - Old Indian word for Bad Hunter"

...and she has without a doubt ELECTRIFIED this campaign.

The choice of Palin seemingly out of left field told me something very important.
That either McCain has an excellent read on what many Americans are looking for, or he has a heck of a good panel working for him. Either way, I'm sold.

I don't like that she promotes intelligent design being taught in schools, or that she doesn't think that abortion should be allowed even in cases of incest or rape. But, those are simply policy differences that I will have to live with.

She is what I hope politicians to be. Someone who never planned on being a politician, but became one because she thought she could do it better than those currently in power.
Everything Obama has done in his life has been to benefit him politically. He even joined Wright's church in Chicago because it was politically expedient. Hell, voters are still trying to figure out exactly who Obama is.
Obama was tabbed as a possible Presidential candidate before he even became a Senator. People didn't know who Jeremiah Wright was until it was pretty much too late for Obama to NOT be the dem. nominee. Obamatons ought to understand how it's possible to get excited about a candidate that we still have much to learn about.

Your saying how awful it is to put someone that inexperienced one step away from the Presidency is hilarious. Is it any better to have an inexperienced candidate take it from day one?
What the heck has Obama done to justify this crazy following?
Yes, he's a great speaker, he's good-looking, and says all the right things, but what has he actually accomplished, either in the Senate or in the business world? Nothing!
And he's about as wishy-washy as they come. Wanting to negotiate with Iran, are you kidding me?

Why I think she's proving to be such a strong VP pick, is that there are many conservative to moderate voters like me that want to see things done differently, but don't like Obama for whatever reason. A lot of people are about to vote unenthusiastically for McCain or Obama (or no one). For me and those like me, Palin gives us a reason to vote for McCain. We have reason to hope for some changes, but don't have to vote for a super-liberal to get it.
And I think that's what should scare the hell out of Democrats.


I'd rather the newcomer be the back-up QB from the smaller school learning the position while holding the clipboard on the bench while the wiley old vetran plays out his last few seasons.


...and you've got to be kidding me with Biden. His record is a joke.
That's a guy that has come down on the wrong side of just about every issue - against Iraq War I, for Iraq War II, As soon as it becomes unpopular, he says we did our job there and wants to cut and run and he's against the surge. Every time he's needed to take a stand, it's been the wrong one. The thought of Biden becoming President is far more scary to me than Palin. He's a shady politician that will do and say whatever is politically expedient at the time.
Why do you think he's one of the first to be removed from the Presidential race every time he ran even though he's better funded than his opponents. And I won't even bring up the plagiarism issue.

[yeahwho]

The GOP is to blame? I'm pretty sure the voters are. They picked him.

They nominated him. Not McCain. Two consecutive times. I sort of was going with the nomination process because that is what this thread is. My writng must be sucking pretty hard lately and I am having a hell of a time conveying thoughts without inviting misinterpretation. I've been jumped on everyday.

Maybe I can become the poster everybody hates and jumps on everytime he posts. I think I can dig that. It would be nice to have someone like that.

you fuckers.

[Documad]

Rob, I get the feeling that you've signed up for all the republican email lists now. You're repeating all their talking points. No one but the most socially conservative evangelical voter can think that Palin should be president of this country! :p

[Burnout18]

hey remember that time in april when like all that crap came out about obama.... william ayers, tony rezko and crap..... there was like this bizarre discovery period..... i feel like this next month will be that same discovery period of palin....

[kaiser soze]

back to Destro/Baroness 08 and the fizzled rnc convention and the exceptional abuse of power by the police

check out this girl get pepper sprayed for holding a flower...hitler would be happy

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2008/09/01/pepper.mpg

[RobMoney$]

Rob, I get the feeling that you've signed up for all the republican email lists now. You're repeating all their talking points. No one but the most socially conservative evangelical voter can think that Palin should be president of this country! :p


I'll be the first to admit I didn't know who Sarah Palin was before last Thursday when she was announced as the pick.

That's just my opinion of her on the stuff I've read about her since then. So maybe the GOP propoganda and the Democrats unfair criticism of her family is all I have to go on at this point.
I'll be the first to admit I don't really know her.


But I'm more comfortable having an unknown be one heartbeat away from the Presidency then actually being the heartbeat.

[DroppinScience]

But I'm more comfortable having an unknown be one heartbeat away from the Presidency then actually being the heartbeat.

Obama's been on the national radar for at least 4 years. Palin has been on the national radar for 4 days. I think you can stop the "we don't know him!" charge.

[RobMoney$]

He's been a Senator for three years, two of which have been spent campaigning for President.


I'm unsure exactly what his plan for Iraq is at this point.
I'm unsure what his healthcare plan is anymore either.
He's said he's willing to negotiate with terrorists (Iran) which leaves me with the biggest question mark of all about him, how he'll react in the face of conflict.

He really hasn't taken a stance on anything for me to see any moral fiber.

[yeahwho]

He's been a Senator for three years, two of which have been spent campaigning for President.


I'm unsure exactly what his plan for Iraq is at this point.
I'm unsure what his healthcare plan is anymore either.
He's said he's willing to negotiate with terrorists (Iran) which leaves me with the biggest question mark of all about him, how he'll react in the face of conflict.

He really hasn't taken a stance on anything for me to see any moral fiber.

It's going to be really super tough to keep up with the Bush legacy, I share so many values with these guys.

And talk about moral fiber, they've only asked for absolute immunity twice. That's some moral fiber from our representative democracy.

[kaiser soze]

Moral Fiber?

Torture
Contempt
Obstruction of Justice
Illegal War
Censorship
Undermining the Constitution
Police State tactics

need I go on?

:rolleyes:

[Laver1969]

Not sure if this has been posted yet...but thought it was noteworthy

Chris Wallace asked McCain about Palin's experience and here's what he said.

WALLACE: But, Senator, you talked about her years of experience. Ten of those years were as a city councilwoman and mayor of a town of 9,800 people. And in terms of foreign policy, in March of 2007, after, two months after the surge had started, she was asked about it, and she said: "I've been focused on state government. I haven't focused on the war in Iraq." Understandable for a governor; not understandable for a vice president.

MCCAIN: Well, by the way, also she was a member of the PTA. I think it's wonderful. But the point is she has been to Kuwait. She has been over there. She has been with her troops, the National Guard that she commands, who had been over there and had the experience. I'm proud of her knowledge of these challenges and issues.

And of course, as governor she has had enormous responsibilities, none of which Senator Obama had. He — when she was in government, he was a community organizer. When she was taking tough positions against her own party, Senator Obama was voting "present" 130 times in the state legislature, on every tough issue whatever it was, while she was taking them on. That's the kind of judgment that I'm confident that we need in Washington.

I thought it was funny that his first thought was...Oh wait she was also a member of the PTA! He circled the wagons and tried to intelligently answer the question but his first thought was the PTA. :D

[RobMoney$]

Moral Fiber?

Torture
Contempt
Obstruction of Justice
Illegal War
Censorship
Undermining the Constitution
Police State tactics

need I go on?

:rolleyes:


So I guess if I don't support Obamamama that means I support Bush?
I can't wait for the Bush era to be over.

[RobMoney$]

MCCAIN: Well, by the way, also she was a member of the PTA. I think it's wonderful. But the point is she has been to Kuwait. She has been over there. She has been with her troops, the National Guard that she commands, who had been over there and had the experience. I'm proud of her knowledge of these challenges and issues.

And of course, as governor she has had enormous responsibilities, none of which Senator Obama had. He — when she was in government, he was a community organizer. When she was taking tough positions against her own party, Senator Obama was voting "present" 130 times in the state legislature, on every tough issue whatever it was, while she was taking them on. That's the kind of judgment that I'm confident that we need in Washington.

I thought it was funny that his first thought was...Oh wait she was also a member of the PTA! He circled the wagons and tried to intelligently answer the question but his first thought was the PTA. :D


I read it as McCain sarcasm. I've seen him respond similarly when the interviewer was trying to paint him into a corner.
I thought it was a spectacular response, one I hope everyone supporting Obama take note of.

[Laver1969]

I read it as McCain sarcasm. I've seen him respond similarly when the interviewer was trying to paint him into a corner.
I thought it was a spectacular response, one I hope everyone supporting Obama take note of.

Here's the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOht5Nwb4q4)to go along with it.

I don't buy the sarcasm idea. McCain looks very awkward defending her with his "she's got great judgement" argument when asked about her foreign policy experience.

I view those types of responses as very Bush-like. He tries to laugh something off or joke about it but he looks very uncomfortable and nervous in my opinion.

[RobMoney$]

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.
I saw the exact type of response I imagined when I read the text you posted of the comment...sarcastic.

[Laver1969]

Palin is a pretty good actress pretending to not know what a VP does... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=006axc2aELE)

[Ali]

Did McoCaine actually do any research before he named Palin?

She's a liability!!!

[kaiser soze]

Palin loves firing people for stepping on her toes....beyond troopergate

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5713866&page=1

After taking over as Mayor of the small town of Wasilla, Palin fired the longtime local police chief. The former police chief, Irl Stambaugh says he was fired because he stepped on the toes of Palin's campaign contributors, including bar owners and the National Rifle Association.

[saz]

Sarah Palin: Iraq is a task from God

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ypVSYoEKA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EgwoWVNoic&feature=related


besides from shilling for the oil and natural gas industries, wanting polar bears removed from the endangered species list, not believing in evolution and wanting creationism taught in public schools, had books banned from a local alaskan library and had the librarian fired, is opposed to sex eduction (which might have benefitted her now pregnant teenage daughter), and being a total gun freak who loves to kill animals, this woman is batshit crazy.

[kaiser soze]

Yeah, she's a bit of a religious kook.....hear about her pastor Brikner and his statements about terrorism and the Jewish?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.

"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."

Her church Website video section is conveniently down

http://www.wasillaag.net/

Buzzings of a Palin extra-marital affair?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/03/mccain-camp-denies-palin-affair-threatens-lawsuit/

ST. PAUL (CNN) – A senior adviser to John McCain’s campaign threatened a lawsuit against the National Enquirer Wednesday over “baseless attacks” in a cover story about Sarah Palin that included allegations of marital infidelity.

Looks like the beginnings of Palingate ?

I thought our soldiers were fighting the Taliban so we wouldn't have to fight them here?

[yeahwho]

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.
I saw the exact type of response I imagined when I read the text you posted of the comment...sarcastic.

Rob you must be super happy to have a woman on McCain's ticket. She is being described by the McCain's as a maverick too. So your getting a "double maverick" billing here.

I wonder if you think Palin is as good as Hillary Clinton, who you supported ardently earlier this year? And now that Hillary has left the political landscape does any of her current speaking points ring true with you?

The conversion from democrat to republican seems sort of almost whimsical in nature. Like a magical epiphany. All of a sudden it isn't the issues, it's the experience, or whatever propagandist (http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=78&aid=149648) label the spin artists put on it.

[saz]

Two top GOP pundits caught on tape: Palin is "political bullshit," "it's over"...Listen to Peggy Noonan, Mike Murphy:


Wall Street Journal columnist and former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan and former John McCain adviser, Time columnist, and MSNBC contributor Mike Murphy were caught on tape disparaging John McCain's selection of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his Vice Presidential running mate.

"It's over," Noonan said.

When Chuck Todd asked her if this was the most qualified woman the Republicans could nominate, Noonan responded, "The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political bullshit about narratives. Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and that's not what they're good at, they blow it."

Murphy characterized the choices as "cynical" and "gimmicky."

listen to audio here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/peggy-noonan-mike-murphy_n_123647.html)

Transcript:

Chuck Todd: Mike Murphy, lots of free advice, we'll see if Steve Schmidt and the boys were watching. We'll find out on your blackberry. Tonight voters will get their chance to hear from Sarah Palin and she will get the chance to show voters she's the right woman for the job Up next, one man who's already convinced and he'll us why Gov. Jon Huntsman. (cut away)

Peggy Noonan: Yeah.

Mike Murphy: You know, because I come out of the blue swing state governor world: Engler, Whitman, Tommy Thompson, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush. I mean, these guys -- this is how you win a Texas race, just run it up. And it's not gonna work. And --

PN: It's over.

MM: Still McCain can give a version of the Lieberman speech to do himself some good.

CT: I also think the Palin pick is insulting to Kay Bailey Hutchinson, too.

PN: Saw Kay this morning.

CT: Yeah, she's never looked comfortable about this --

MM: They're all bummed out.

CT: Yeah, I mean is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?

PN: The most qualified? No! I think they went for this -- excuse me-- political bullshit about narratives --

CT: Yeah they went to a narrative.

MM: I totally agree.

PN: Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.

MM: You know what's really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism, and this is cynical.

CT: This is cynical, and as you called it, gimmicky.

MM: Yeah.

[RobMoney$]

Rob you must be super happy to have a woman on McCain's ticket. She is being described by the McCain's as a maverick too. So your getting a "double maverick" billing here.



I wonder if you think Palin is as good as Hillary Clinton, who you supported ardently earlier this year? And now that Hillary has left the political landscape does any of her current speaking points ring true with you?



The conversion from democrat to republican seems sort of almost whimsical in nature. Like a magical epiphany. All of a sudden it isn't the issues, it's the experience, or whatever propagandist label the spin artists put on it.



You want me to justify my choice to you?
What's the difference really. When Obama loses you'll all blame it on racism or some other ridiculous conspiricy insted of admitting to yourselves that the better man (and woman) won.

We've been debating politics in this forum for months now. If you don't have a glimpse into what my thinking is about the candidates, then nothing I'm going to type here is going to enlighten you.


I really don't know why I bother anymore. It's futile to come to an obviously uber-liberal MB and try to talk about conservative points of view.

I'll just say that I still believe Hillary is the best candidate for the job.

[yeahwho]

I'll just say that I still believe Hillary is the best candidate for the job.

yet her endorsement (http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=7937) of Obama is nonsense (http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7933) to you then? The actual thrust and core belief's they shared during the nomination run is just tossed aside for McCain/Palin?

They are ideological peas in a pod, very different than McCain. You don't have to justify anything to me or anybody else, change is what it's all about and change is the direction you've taken. Good for you.

Your into your shtick and I'm into my shtick. Your making the BBMB political board fun!

[jennyb]

Pff that speech Palin made me throw up in my mouth a little. She came across like some trash talkin redneck. *shudder* The lack of diversity in these Republican conventions and all the hootin and hollerin stinks of 'good ol boy' mentality that this country historically loves. I feel like I need a shower after watching that. The republican core disgraces our country and makes it look so unfriendly, like 'our way or the highway'. A party of fighters with little to no diplomacy nor sophistication. BLECH. It disgusts me that my family I love so dear falls for this shit too. *opens bottle of wine* Oh god, then the country music kicks in. GROSS. :(

[QueenAdrock]

When Obama loses

I'm still unsure as to how you could change so drastically (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1590348&postcount=4) in just a few months. I mean, I understand that you don't support Obama, but now you believe he's going to lose? Not only that, you said "More than 10% landslide" and so now he's somehow lost at least 11 points in the past few months? I mean, what did he do SO badly to make him lose that momentum?

And for the record "uber liberals" would not be supporting Obama. He still supports the death penalty, isn't for universal healthcare payable through the government, and several other things. "Uber liberals" would be supporting someone like Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader. Democrats are centrist.

[Whatitis]

Wow, 'trash talking redneck'! Grow up! She was very composed and direct in her speech. The only thing to stop anyone thinking that is very partisan. Especially when you bring up the music afterwords. I can't stand country music either(except Country Mike ;-) ) but it shows your true colors. Palin showed a great confidence in her speech and yes, she has speech writers, as all politicians do, but she delivered, big time. She showed herself as a very confident woman and more so a leader that can handle politics.

[jennyb]

Yo that.

[kaiser soze]

Palin brought up children with needs and families, why I don't know....she cut funding by more than a 1/2 for Special Education

I wonder if her child was a "gift from god" reminding her of the hardships she has put many families through, shame on her

http://www.gov.state.ak.us/omb/07_OMB/budget/EED/comp2735.pdf

http://www.gov.state.ak.us/omb/08_OMB/budget/EED/comp2735.pdf

http://www.gov.state.ak.us/omb/09_omb/budget/EED/comp2735.pdf

[RobMoney$]

I'm still unsure as to how you could change so drastically (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1590348&postcount=4) in just a few months. I mean, I understand that you don't support Obama, but now you believe he's going to lose? Not only that, you said "More than 10% landslide" and so now he's somehow lost at least 11 points in the past few months? I mean, what did he do SO badly to make him lose that momentum?

Considering the current administrations disapproval rating, the dems should be winning this thing in a landslide. This election should have been a lay-up, but once again they're finding a way to screw it up because their candidate sucks.

I'm supporting McCain because I believe he's the best candidate, not because he's republican. I'm not a blind partisan supporter of a party. I like that he's not a true Republican, that's why they call him the Maverick

BTW, Guiliani had a great quote last night during his speech.
Palin got more votes running for Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Biden got running for President of the United States.
I thought that one was pretty good.

And for the record "uber liberals" would not be supporting Obama. He still supports the death penalty, isn't for universal healthcare payable through the government, and several other things. "Uber liberals" would be supporting someone like Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader. Democrats are centrist.


Because only morons would support a non-viable candidate. I don't think uber-liberals are morons.

[Ali]

Pff that speech Palin made me throw up in my mouth a little. She came across like some trash talkin redneck. *shudder* The lack of diversity in these Republican conventions and all the hootin and hollerin stinks of 'good ol boy' mentality that this country historically loves. I feel like I need a shower after watching that. The republican core disgraces our country and makes it look so unfriendly, like 'our way or the highway'. A party of fighters with little to no diplomacy nor sophistication. BLECH. It disgusts me that my family I love so dear falls for this shit too. *opens bottle of wine* Oh god, then the country music kicks in. GROSS. :(
Did she say that one of her kids was in the military?

Good for her. Every politician who supports war should be obliged to have their kids sent overseas and shot to pieces.

[Bob]

I'm supporting McCain because I believe he's the best candidate, not because he's republican. I'm not a blind partisan supporter of a party. I like that he's not a true Republican, that's why they call him the Maverick

in which parts of his 2008 presidential campaign do you see that?

[Laver1969]

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.
I saw the exact type of response I imagined when I read the text you posted of the comment...sarcastic.

That's cool. I'm voting for Obama because I think he's the better candidate. McCain just scares me. Partly because of where he stands on issues...but his mannerisms just plain scare me. He looks nervous, anxious, uncomfortable. He'll look you in the eye but I feel it's very patronizing.

I'm waiting for him to go off like Nicholson did in A Few Good Men.

You can't handle the truth. Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

[kaiser soze]

Palin inhaled as well

but she didn't like it :(

But the self-proclaimed "hockey mom" had some youthful indiscretions.

Palin has said she smoked marijuana but didn't enjoy it and doesn't smoke anymore.

"I can't claim a Bill Clinton and say that I never inhaled,” she told the Anchorage Daily News in 2006.

At the time, marijuana was legal under Alaska's liberal drug laws.

Funny how it's ok for them do the shit they say is wrong for others

Hypocrites!

[saz]

Because only morons would support a non-viable candidate. I don't think uber-liberals are morons.

right rob, millions of people who vote with their conscious, vote for what they believe in, and vote for who they want to see president are morons. only the people who vote for a "winner" are not morons. :rolleyes:

[Echewta]

I didn't watch Palin speak. I had the misfortune of listening to Romney and Huckabee, to a point, speak. Really? Are they still set on scare tactics of using the word "liberal" and seething when they say it? Amazing. Liberals are for bigger government? The liberal Obama went to Europe and brough back ultra liberal ideas to take away America's freedom? Where do they come up with this stuff and why are they insulting their apparent base by thinking they are that unitelligent. I'm saying this taking into account that they voted for Bush for a second term.
And funny how its time for a change and for all of these things to happen when they've had a Republican there for 8 years and controlled Congress for 6. Its so bizzare.
And with all of the god be with you and god bless you, it certainly doesn't sound sincere to their "neighbors." Sick.
I wonder when the ammendment to make Reagan a saint will be passed.

[NoFenders]

You should have watched Palin. She was amazing! Just a great night all in all.

:cool:

[RobMoney$]

You should have watched Palin. She was amazing! Just a great night all in all.

:cool:

Everywhere I went today, people were talking about her and how much the enjoyed her speech. She definitely reached people.
I mean how great will it be to actually have a real person representing our interests in Washington?

[Echewta]

Hmm. I disagree with the real part. She's about as real as Biden or McCain or Obama or any other politician who is endorsed by the two parties and is being spun as a "hockey mom" "war vet" etc. Real? Until they have lottery to randomly pick the President, the closest you are going to get to being real is Paul or Kucinich.

[Bob]

I mean how great will it be to actually have a real person representing our interests in Washington?

really?

you've gone from "lifelong democrat" to "enthusiastic mccain supporter" awfully fast. do you have whiplash? i can represent you if you do

[DroppinScience]

really?

you've gone from "lifelong democrat" to "enthusiastic mccain supporter" awfully fast. do you have whiplash? i can represent you if you do

Hey man, McCain is a maverick! McCain voted against Bush 10% of the time. That's pretty brave and bold of him. (y)

[Bob]

Hey man, McCain is a maverick! McCain voted against Bush 10% of the time. That's pretty brave and bold of him. (y)

he's so brave and bold he'll even vote against himself (yes i stole it from the colbert report don't bother pointing it out)

[yeahwho]

Look, Sarah Palin is basically a brand new commodity who has been polished up, spun and sold to us, the electorate, as a brand new product for the Republican Vice President candidate.

I don't know shit about her, she has never once crossed my radar and I was in Alaska two weeks ago. What we're in is a discovery period. The speech was written for her and she read it exceedingly well. That is important that she can say her lines. Because message is clearly the only thing the republicans can go on. The record is dismal. Anybody who says otherwise is out to lunch.

I do know from my personal experience and what I've gathered she is alot like every mom, (is that sexist, because this is the image they tried to communicate more than once?), anyway she is a lot more like you and I, or folks we know. She is down to earth and folksy, like GWB was doing when he ran for President. That folksy approach.

What worries me more than all of the claims is just that, someone just like us is one heartbeat from being in charge of 300 million peoples llives directly and 6.5 billion lives indirectly. The nuclear football is in somebodies hands who is being portrayed as a hockey mom.

[jennyb]

The Obama campaign said tonight it broke its single-day fundraising record, raising more than $10 million in the 24 hours since Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin gave her speech.

"I hope she gives a speech every single day," said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/04/obama_raised_8_million_since_p.html


nice! *donates*

[kaiser soze]

"McCain Votes against vets"

Nice sign on t.v. in the con convention

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Iraq_Vets_Infiltrate_Republican_Convention_Taunt_J on_McCain

[kaiser soze]

First Van Halen.....now Heart are upset McCain ripped them off

http://www.tmz.com/2008/09/04/republicans-lack-heart

[RobMoney$]

Look, Sarah Palin is basically a brand new commodity who has been polished up, spun and sold to us, the electorate, as a brand new product for the Republican Vice President candidate.

I don't know shit about her, she has never once crossed my radar and I was in Alaska two weeks ago. What we're in is a discovery period. The speech was written for her and she read it exceedingly well. That is important that she can say her lines. Because message is clearly the only thing the republicans can go on. The record is dismal. Anybody who says otherwise is out to lunch.

I do know from my personal experience and what I've gathered she is alot like every mom, (is that sexist, because this is the image they tried to communicate more than once?), anyway she is a lot more like you and I, or folks we know. She is down to earth and folksy, like GWB was doing when he ran for President. That folksy approach.

What worries me more than all of the claims is just that, someone just like us is one heartbeat from being in charge of 300 million peoples llives directly and 6.5 billion lives indirectly. The nuclear football is in somebodies hands who is being portrayed as a hockey mom.

Every major politician has speech writers and simply read what's written for them, and adlib where they feel comfortable. I read her speech online last night because it was apparently released prior to her delivering it live, and she did adlib from it quite well which at least told me she's comfortable on a national stage and gave me a glimpse at how sharp she is.

I'm left wondering if the women on this MB who are supporting Obama recognize what an important moment this was for women in general and that she should be supported.
They support every female musical artist, from Ani DiFranco and Regina Spektor all the way to Joni Mitchell, but won't support a woman in politics who's actually helping advance women in American society.
Like her or not, she's instantly become a serious political figure in American politics in '08 and beyond.

[Dorothy Wood]

Every major politician has speech writers and simply read what's written for them, and adlib where they feel comfortable. I read her speech online last night because it was apparently released prior to her delivering it live, and she did adlib from it quite well which at least told me she's comfortable on a national stage and gave me a glimpse at how sharp she is.

I'm left wondering if the women on this MB who are supporting Obama recognize what an important moment this was for women in general and that she should be supported.
They support every female musical artist, from Ani DiFranco and Regina Spektor all the way to Joni Mitchell, but won't support a woman in politics who's actually helping advance women in American society.
Like her or not, she's instantly become a serious political figure in American politics in '08 and beyond.



you're kidding right? I understand that it's important that a woman has been chosen as a VP candidate. it's great. but it's a complete gimmick and it's so obvious it's sickening. as for her being a "real" person, give me a break. our current president was sold as a "real" person and look where we are now.

I don't want a president or a vice president that's "just like me", I want someone who's the fucking smartest person in the universe. I don't need to identify with a leader, I just want them to do their job and get shit done.

in this case, I believe there were probably more qualified female candidates for this job. I also believe that palin was chosen to sate the moral conservatives and the handful of people who still buy into the down home good ol' boy(and I guess girl now) bullshit. it's a ruse, the whole thing is calculated. the republicans discovered that they could tap into a group of american consumers that love sound bytes and patriotism and god and walmart and exploited it by acting like they were into it too.

you've been had. and it's sickening that you can't even see it.


and I fucking hate ani difranco.

[yeahwho]

Palin up close (http://my2bucks.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/a-letter-from-someone-who-has-known-sarah-palin-since-1992/)from somebody who's known her for years and would like you to know her as she does. A fellow resident;

Dear friends,

So many people have asked me about what I know about Sarah Palin in the
last 2 days that I decided to write something up . . .

Basically, Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have only 2 things in
common: their gender and their good looks. :)

You have my permission to forward this to your friends/email contacts
with my name and email address attached, but please do not post it on
any websites, as there are too many kooks out there . . .

Thanks,
Anne

The original posting is here (http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3671/the-reform-candidate) in reply to a Washington Independent article.

[Dorothy Wood]

Palin up close (http://my2bucks.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/a-letter-from-someone-who-has-known-sarah-palin-since-1992/)from somebody who's known her for years and would like you to know her as she does. A fellow resident;

Dear friends,

So many people have asked me about what I know about Sarah Palin in the
last 2 days that I decided to write something up . . .

Basically, Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have only 2 things in
common: their gender and their good looks. :)

You have my permission to forward this to your friends/email contacts
with my name and email address attached, but please do not post it on
any websites, as there are too many kooks out there . . .

Thanks,
Anne

The original posting is here (http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3671/the-reform-candidate) in reply to a Washington Independent article.


wow, can that lady please run for office instead?

[QueenAdrock]

Like her or not, she's instantly become a serious political figure in American politics in '08 and beyond.

Ask anyone on the street about Geraldine Ferraro and I'm pretty sure they can't tell you who she is. It's great that she's doing something for womankind, but sadly, I don't think she'll be seen as a 'serious political figure' much longer.

The whole "Yay historical nomination!" idea is undermined when you see that she's actually just being used as a political tool because of her sex, though. If she were a man, there's no way she would have been selected. McCain's not about picking someone that he thinks has the best experience or judgment, he's picking someone who he thinks will help him on the ticket, particularly with Hillary voters. It's funny how his team is yelling 'sexism' at Obama for questioning her experience (what that has to do with being sexist, I have NO idea), and yet one of the main reasons they picked her is because she has a vagina and figured the Hillary voters would vote for her because of that fact; apparently they think they're too stupid to see through the gimmick and don't care about the actual ISSUES, just any woman on the ticket will do for them. Who's really sexist here?

[DroppinScience]

Man, I don't care what political persuasion you are, but damn that McCain speech was a snooze.

It was a grand struggle to pay attention and it felt as if it lasted 15-20 minutes too long. Not to mention I noticed the crowd itself tried to get excited over his speech, but the reception was muted and forced.

Pitiful.

[King PSYZ]

really?

you've gone from "lifelong democrat" to "enthusiastic mccain supporter" awfully fast. do you have whiplash? i can represent you if you do

<3

[ms.peachy]

I'm left wondering if the women on this MB who are supporting Obama recognize what an important moment this was for women in general and that she should be supported.


I'm insulted by that comment, to be honest with you. Do you think I'm stupid? I don't feel that I'm obliged to support anyone simply by virtue of the fact that we both have vaginas. I am quite capable of recognising that yes, she is a woman of some achievement, but she isn't the first woman to be nominated for VP, and she is a person whose views I happen to disagree with on just about every issue. She doesn't represent me and my values set. Why on earth would I vote for her if I do't think she is the best person for the job?

[RobMoney$]

Why on earth would I vote for her if I do't think she is the best person for the job?


Perhaps I should make myself more clear.
I'm not saying women should vote for her simply because she's a woman. I meant that it wouldn't hurt for you guys to not be so vicious towards her. I would never suggest to anyone how they should vote. I don't even like when the Beastie Boys do it in their e-mails.
I'm not voting for Obama, but I recognize and support the achievement he's accomplished by being the first Black candidate to be nominated by a major party for the office and I'm not above complimenting him when he says something I agree with.


And although she isn't the first woman to be picked as a VP candidate, she is the first woman to do it on a GOP ticket. Which is significant change as far as that party goes.

[roosta]

She seems like a twat.

[Dorothy Wood]

Perhaps I should make myself more clear.
I'm not saying women should vote for her simply because she's a woman. I meant that it wouldn't hurt for you guys to not be so vicious towards her. I would never suggest to anyone how they should vote. I don't even like when the Beastie Boys do it in their e-mails.
I'm not voting for Obama, but I recognize and support the achievement he's accomplished by being the first Black candidate to be nominated by a major party for the office and I'm not above complimenting him when he says something I agree with.


And although she isn't the first woman to be picked as a VP candidate, she is the first woman to do it on a GOP ticket. Which is significant change as far as that party goes.


she hasn't said anything that I've agreed with, and she scares me. I am literally terrified of having her in such a high position in my country's government.

[ms.peachy]

And although she isn't the first woman to be picked as a VP candidate, she is the first woman to do it on a GOP ticket. Which is significant change as far as that party goes.

Oh whoop-de-friggin-do, the GOP have decided to join the 20th century. Only a near decade into the 21st. Well, let's throw a parade.

[NoFenders]

Basically, Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have only 2 things in
common: their gender and their good looks. :)



That just totally lost credibility right there.

:cool:

[kaiser soze]

They support every female musical artist, from Ani DiFranco and Regina Spektor all the way to Joni Mitchell, but won't support a woman in politics who's actually helping advance women in American society.


Maybe the musicians are supported because they tell the truth

Palin is a bloodsucker, these musicians are nurturers

Speaking of bloodsucking....here is a statement from the Wilson Sisters of Heart

"Sarah Palin's views and values in NO WAY represent us as American women. We ask that our song 'Barracuda' no longer be used to promote her image. The song 'Barracuda' was written in the late 70s as a scathing rant against the soulless, corporate nature of the music business, particularly for women. (The 'barracuda' represented the business.) While Heart did not and would not authorize the use of their song at the RNC, there's irony in Republican strategists' choice to make use of it there."


http://www.boston.com/ae/music/blog/2008/09/heart_to_mccain.html?s_campaign=8315

hypocrite much?

[kaiser soze]

Jackson Browne to sue for the illegal use of his music

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/14/jackson-browne-sues-mccai_n_118977.html

Singer, songwriter, liberal activist and now John McCain scourge Jackson Browne filed a lawsuit today against the presumptive GOP nominee and the Republican Party for failing to obtain a license to use one of his songs in a television commercial.

If mccain supports RIAA policies towards piracy, why is he and his party committing the same crimes?

[checkyourprez]

She seems like a twat.

she strikes me as very cunty i must say.

[Whatitis]

Ask anyone on the street about Geraldine Ferraro and I'm pretty sure they can't tell you who she is.


Queen, you can do better than that. That's bad, and not true, especially comming from a woman.

[Whatitis]

Palin is a bloodsucker

This is getting comical.

[kaiser soze]

you're correct

she's a joke

[Whatitis]

She seems like a twat.


You know, if this was said about Hillary by anyone here this board would have lit up. And you all talk about hypocricy. It's getting deep and ugly in here.

[checkyourprez]

You know, if this was said about Hillary by anyone here this board would have lit up. And you all talk about hypocricy. It's getting deep and ugly in here.

hilary's a bitch, but shes not a skank. theres a difference.

[ms.peachy]

hilary's a bitch, but shes not a skank. theres a difference.

I do think that this crosses the line. I am certainly (CERTAINLY) not a fan of Ms. Palin, but there are so many legitimate arguments one can make against her, it is really not necessary to resort to name calling, and I can't put a lot of stock into the opinions of those who do. So, you know, if you want to do that, you can, but you can't then expect anyone to believe you are in any way serious about having any kind of intelligent political discourse.

[kaiser soze]

I called her a bloodsucker (which I think many politicians are) and a hypocrite (which many politicians are)

[roosta]

Seriously, she does seem like a twat. But its not cause she's a woman. Bush is a twat too.

[Whatitis]

Must be your self-consciousness because I really don't think she was talking about your jab, Kaiser.

[kaiser soze]

oh thanks for being wrong ;)

[checkyourprez]

I do think that this crosses the line. I am certainly (CERTAINLY) not a fan of Ms. Palin, but there are so many legitimate arguments one can make against her, it is really not necessary to resort to name calling, and I can't put a lot of stock into the opinions of those who do. So, you know, if you want to do that, you can, but you can't then expect anyone to believe you are in any way serious about having any kind of intelligent political discourse.


Clearly, I would not be posing this as my argument in any form of serious political discourse be it in a professional or academic setting. But lets be real, this is the internets.

[Echewta]

Funny, I see the men in the race being called a snooze and the women being called bitches and cunts. Interesting.

McCains speach wasn't so bad except for the fact that its like McDonalds offering a lite menu, people getting excited and then a year later, its gone and back to regular fatty McDonalds. Sorry McCain, you are too much of a Republican and your party held power for 8 years and did nothing with it except break laws, grow the government, grow the deficit, and spill blood. If you are such a Mavrick, you should have gone Independent like Liberman. The Republican party is in the same state the Dems were 8 years ago. Dull and boring.


Left, right, left, right

[kaiser soze]

Vetted!

mccain forgot to review his slide show

Walter Reed Medical Center image is actually Walter Reed Middle School in Hollywood!!!

Goes to show how in tune mccain is with Veterans :eek::rolleyes::mad:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/213806.php

Looks like the principal wasn't impressed....like Van Halen, Jackson Browne, and Heart



“It has been brought to the school’s attention that a picture of the front of our school, Walter Reed Middle School, was used as a backdrop at the Republican National Convention. Permission to use the front of our school for the Republican National Convention was not given by our school nor is the use of our school’s picture an endorsement of any political party or view.”

Donna Tobin
Principal


http://reedmstech.com/home/

[saz]

The Republican party is in the same state the Dems were 8 years ago. Dull and boring.

i completely disagree. over the last thirty years, the republicans, starting in the mid-to-late 70s, went from a very centrist, or centre-right eisenhower/goldwarteresque libertarian-leaning party; to a really dumbed down, christian fundamentalist, neo-conservative, far right-wing warmongering party with fascistic overtones.

it really hits home when you think that richard nixon was much more liberal or progressive than the majority of today's democratic party. it's also not surprising that the ron paul movement is a reality, and bob barr quit the party and joined the libertarians.

[yeahwho]

Palin is going to have to get by Hillary Clinton (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/us/politics/06web-healy.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin), that is what she is going to have to do. This is not an easy task. The political heavyweights are circling and I have to say the American people in the end do want substance, not attacks. The whole Republican build up to McCain was attacking the democrats. Then when McCain spoke,

He said the Republicans “had lost the trust” of the American people and promised to regain it. He decried “the constant partisan rancor that stops us from solving” problems. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/05/opinion/05fri1.html?hp)

The embarrassment of George W. Bush was obvious. Does that even register with republicans? Reality is reality and McCain, agreed "on record" 90% of the time with GWB. My take is this, the republican convention was like a vacuum that efficiently suck all hope right out of the room.

Now Obama is part of the establishment or so you would have thought last night. There were many very odd aspects to the Republican convention. Absent from the Republican convention were not only references to the Republican Party or the G.O.P. Compare the transcripts of the speeches in this convention with those of past conventions; proud reference to the party by name is startlingly absent.

While you are looking at those transcriptions of this past convention try to find reference to President Bush's remarks on the first day (http://www.gopconvention2008.com/default.aspx.). It is as if according to the Republican website he did not speak. In fact a foreign observer might leave the convention with the impression that Reagan was the last Republican president.

What amazes me is McCain's call to get special interests out of Washington. (His staff of course remains largely former lobbyists.) He skipped over his own voting record to point to Obama's vote for big oil on the Energy Bill, as an example of the influence of money on Washington.

Obama who for months has been cast as a rabid liberal was last night cast by McCain as part of the establishment that he wants to change! Can you believe it?

[yeahwho]

to a really dumbed down, christian fundamentalist, neo-conservative, far right-wing warmongering party with fascistic overtones.


that's because death certificates and graveyard markers were put on databases and easily accessed, if we can't exploit the dead may as well exploit the pews

[Randetica]

mccain didnt even look so bad about 95 years ago

(hope i didnt influence your vote now)

[QueenAdrock]

Queen, you can do better than that. That's bad, and not true, especially comming from a woman.

You honestly think that the average person knows who Geraldine Ferraro is? You give Americans too much credit, then. Sure, people who lived through that age may know. But people who weren't paying attention then or weren't alive at that time won't know. The average guy on the street won't be able to tell you who she is. The major historical people you hear about in regards to American politics are the Lincolns, Kennedys, Clintons, etc. In regards to women, Harriet Tubman and Rosa Parks come to mind. People who have made a significant impact on history. Ferraro didn't have a significant impact, she ran as the first female VP nominee, which is extremely commendable, but extremely forgettable if she doesn't make it all the way. That's why I think Palin will be a footnote in history, too. When they lose in the fall, her name will be dropped just as quickly as it was brought up. It's sad, but it's true.

[ms.peachy]

You honestly think that the average person knows who Geraldine Ferraro is?

I have to say that I'm surprised at this from you too, QA. Yes, I do believe that the average American does know who Geraldine Ferraro is. I'm kind of stunned that you think they wouldn't.

[Dorothy Wood]

I actually have to agree with diana. a lot of people don't even know who any of the vice presidents were, let alone vice presidential candidates.

[Documad]

I'm left wondering if the women on this MB who are supporting Obama recognize what an important moment this was for women in general and that she should be supported.
They support every female musical artist, from Ani DiFranco and Regina Spektor all the way to Joni Mitchell, but won't support a woman in politics who's actually helping advance women in American society.
Like her or not, she's instantly become a serious political figure in American politics in '08 and beyond.

Let me add my name to the list of women who were offended by the comment. I don't like Ani DiFranco and I fucking hate Regina Spektor and all other women who sing like little girls. That is a low blow!

Palin is not advancing the place of women in American society. I know women like her in real life. They don't honor the choices that other women make. They don't honor the choice to be childless, to be a lesbian, etc. They're not doing a god damned thing to help their sisters who are raising kids who don't have access to health care.

Also, there isn't anything new about Palin. That's why commentators keep comparing her to Phyllis Schlafly (as in "Hillary Clinton will do everything in her power to ensure that a Phyllis Schlafly clone isn't the first woman to break this particular glass ceiling"). The moral majority was always full of women who had what I think of an anti-woman agenda (they would call it an anti-feminist agenda). They're the ones who killed the ERA because they were worried that men and women would have to share public bathrooms. :rolleyes:

[Laver1969]

Since we're on the subject of Ferraro, I was 15 when she was the VP candidate and remember the announcement and know Reagan won in a landslide.

But I don't really remember any specifics. How did she do in the debate? How did Mondale's ticket do in the polls after her announcement? Was she viewed as an up and comer? What was the buzz? Did she had the energy to Mondales stale campaign like Palin's doing for McCain?

And Ms. Peachy is giving Americans too much credit. A lot of Americans can't name the current Vice President let alone a VP nominee from '84.

[Bob]

Since we're on the subject of Ferraro, I was 15 when she was the VP candidate and remember the announcement and know Reagan won in a landslide.

But I don't really remember any specifics. How did she do in the debate? How did Mondale's ticket do in the polls after her announcement? Was she viewed as an up and comer? What was the buzz? Did she had the energy to Mondales stale campaign like Palin's doing for McCain?

And Ms. Peachy is giving Americans too much credit. A lot of Americans can't name the current Vice President let alone a VP nominee from '84.

i don't know who geraldine ferraro is (in my defense i was 0 years old at the time)

[QueenAdrock]

I have to say that I'm surprised at this from you too, QA. Yes, I do believe that the average American does know who Geraldine Ferraro is. I'm kind of stunned that you think they wouldn't.

I've seen countless comments all over CNN stating that Sarah Palin is doing something no other woman has ever done before, by being the first female VP nominee. The average American can't tell you who Condi Rice is when shown a picture of her. I'm not saying I want it to be that way, in fact, I find it quite sad. Unfortunately though, I do believe accomplishments of women in politics have largely gone unnoticed (minus the obvious Hillary aspect) by the general public.

[jennyb]

I guess what really got under my skin and upset me about Palin's speech was seeing someone who was firing up the ideals of small town America (aka my people back home that I love dearly). I am a registered Independent, would not call myself a Democrat but know for a FACT that the Republican party's branding, message and or package in this day and age terrifies me to no end. Being a Single Independent Woman with a small town upbringing who has lived in urban LA for 10 years I cannot help but notice this all out war between rural and urban ideas. I am having a really difficult time with this...

The two issues that I feel most passionate about are foreign policy and health care.

In my home town there are many who's farthest journey has been the hour plus drive to the nearest shopping mall and those who have been to Madison or Chicago have really been to exotic places. I'm not condescending, it's merely a fact. I fear these really good hearted folks come from an extremely limited view of the world. They really identify with a message that there are bad people in way far off lands that want to do horrific things to us. That rightfully scares the ever livin shit out of them and McCain's message of FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT is what makes them feel safe. It's so hypocritical though because they ALL go to church every single Sunday and we cannot eat until we pray etc... they bond with each other through a church community who strive to be good people. But Jesus didn't have a FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT message so where is this coming from? As much as it pains me to type this, even my sister sympathizes with Bush, "Any President would have a difficult time going through 9/11." When I tried to talk to my sister in law about my thoughts on this "oil war" she came at me with the fact that Saddam was a horrible man that our troops are out there saving Iraq from evil! She said in reply to my oil war comment, "It's just the media..." with a sad face and shaking her head. To which I wanted to reply to her thoughts, "It's just the church..." with a sad face and shake my head. I had to stop talking with them over this because at the end of the day I do LOVE these people so much and I could see this was going to go nowhere good. This brings me back to Palin. I know they all can identify with her. They are gun wielding women who hunt and fish who are tough etc... I see Palin as a sick ploy to bait good rural people into something that is going to further drag down our standing in the world and further our reputation as war mongering idiots. Issues of abortion and gay marriage seem more important to my family. Issues of abortion and gay marriage won't matter when we're nuked for sending another brainless white guy with a fight message and guns a-blazin' into one of the most powerful positions in the world. I feel like McCain is appealing because they can identify with him and now with her. It sure didn't help this pit in my stomach when I found out that this speech she gave, that had conservatives orgasaming all over the country - was penned by former Bush speechwriter Matthew Scully (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1838808,00.html). The people of my hometown that I go out to the main street bars with back home talk in the same way Palin did with sarcasm and dare I say 'bitterness'. The same old Bush theatrics are back to bait and switch the good rural people of our wonderful nation. As Obama is not the be all and end all answer, I feel much more confident in a well educated man who, while isn't afraid to unleash the military on Taliban in Afghanistan if required - has a more diplomatic and mindful and sane approach.

I also find it incomprehensible for good loving Jesus people to think that healing the sick should be left to business, this big business that has people dying on doorsteps of America's Emergency Rooms.... What Would Jesus Do?! HEAL THE SICK!!!! Another hypocritical stance I cannot get my brain around.

The more I try to understand the more infuriated and frustrated I become. I need to stop. I don't even know if anyone will get through my long and rambling post, I just need to vent. I cannot even call my loved ones right now because all I wanna do is plead with them and say, 'why!?'...

...and I LOVE Ani DiFranco but dislike Regina Spektor - whatever that has to do with all this just because those two have fun pouches doesn't mean their music is the same nor has anything to do with Palin.

Sarah Palin and John McCain are riling conservatives and it's scaring me and making me sad. :(

[DroppinScience]

The comparison between Ani DiFranco and Sarah Palin is pretty pathetic, and I'm glad everyone is seeing through that. I'm not a fan of her, but DiFranco has more integrity in her pinky finger than Palin does in her entire body.

[travesty]

[QUOTE=jennygirl;1613302]
I also find it incomprehensible for good loving Jesus people to think that healing the sick should be left to business, this big business that has people dying on doorsteps of America's Emergency Rooms.... What Would Jesus Do?! HEAL THE SICK!!!! Another hypocritical stance I cannot get my brain around.

[QUOTE]

Wrong.....Jebus only healed some of the sick and probably just to show off so he could get in Mary's panties. If he really wanted to heal all of the sick there would likely be no diseases today at all and we would all live forever. That leads me to believe that Jebus really couldn't give a shit about any of us. So if you think universal healthcare is a "God given right" think again, God kills more people than anyone!:D Besides, healthcare is a service not a right.

[jennyb]

...healthcare is a service not a right.

Seriously?! I mean, what? That just sounds so messed up.

[ms.peachy]

Seriously?! I mean, what? That just sounds so messed up.
I'm inclined to agree. How about education, is that a right? I'm trying to understand the category criteria.

[QueenAdrock]

Yeah, those people who die in emergency rooms because they don't have money totally deserved it. If they didn't want to bleed to death from that accident they had, they would have made sure that they paid out the ass for health insurance. And I know what you're going to say, "A lot of people aren't eligible for health insurance," and well, maybe they shouldn't have had that family history of diabetes or depression, either. It's the best goddamn system in the world. Only healthy, rich people are able to stay healthy, just the way it should be.

[mikizee]

Hmmmm Palin....

Yeah, cos what the world really needs is another pro-gun, pro life, anti abortion climate change denier fundamentalist christian redneck who couldn't find overseas on an atlas to be 2nd in charge of the second most powerful nation on earth.

Thats exactly what the world needs, after all, the last 8 years have been a blast (literally)

[kaiser soze]

...and I LOVE Ani DiFranco but dislike Regina Spektor - whatever that has to do with all this just because those two have fun pouches doesn't mean their music is the same nor has anything to do with Palin.


Agree'd, Regina is like Tori Amos on crack. Ani kicks ass...Reprieve was quite critical of where this nation has been, is now, and could horribly go wrong.

Palin is just a mouth....little substance, she is the X-Factor for the GOP, they need someone controversial and "historical" to counter Obama...even though their comparisons should end soon, they are not running against each other.

[Bob]

Seriously?! I mean, what? That just sounds so messed up.

our market is an all-knowing and loving market. it shall provide

[roosta]

this is why i like obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwFqED85KWQ)

Hardly any politicians seem as natural or as comfortable saying what they say. 99.9% of politicians are soundbyting or reading from the script. He actually seems like he knows what hes on about.

[RobMoney$]

I'm really enjoying reading how much Hurricane Sarah is making all the liberals spin. :p

[roosta]

I'm really enjoying reading how much Hurricane Sarah is making all the liberals spin. :p

As a McCain voter to be, how do you feel about Hurricane Sarah possibly having a say in the education of your children when she believes the earth was created 6,000 years ago when all scientific evidence points to the contrary?

[RobMoney$]

I've actually already responded to that and been ripped for it,
feel free to join in...

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1611631&postcount=22

[ms.peachy]

I'm really enjoying reading how much Hurricane Sarah is making all the liberals spin. :p
I don't know that any other choice would have generated less attention, to be honest. It's a general election, after all; so any choice McCain would have made would be a major talking point. The fact that the conversation around Palin is so animated really only reflects the level of surprise so may people in both parties at a selection that seems less daring than it does reckless.

[yeahwho]

I'm really enjoying reading how much Hurricane Sarah is making all the liberals spin. :p

yawn

[kaiser soze]

Wasilla Alaska under seige from meth lab growth since Palin became mayor.

So, what did Palin do or has done to help fight this scourge?

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/030805/sta_20050308002.shtml

In 2003, authorities uncovered nine meth labs in the area. Last year, the number increased to 42, said Kyle Young, an investigator with the troopers who works with the Mat-Su narcotics team.

Officials with the Office of Children's Services in Wasilla said the problem affects children. The office receives about 40 calls a month from people reporting abuse or neglect involving some aspect of the highly addictive drug.

[jennyb]

This is interesting... (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/07/palin-finally-agrees-to-first-tv-interview/) Sarah Barracuda agrees to a TV interview but the comments section proves to be a little more interesting to me. A certain Anne Kilkenny leaves some info in the comments section that further scares the tar outta me.

[kaiser soze]

Service! Service! We Demand Service!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJGCnk_wDMA&eurl=http://www.democraticunderground.com/

[ms.peachy]

A certain Anne Kilkenny leaves some info in the comments section that further scares the tar outta me.

There is an interview with Anne Kilkenny on NPR that is worth seeking out.

[King PSYZ]

I'm really enjoying reading how much Hurricane Sarah is making all the liberals spin. :p

weren't you a liberal AKA democrat right up til they nominated a black man as their canidate?

[RobMoney$]

weren't you a liberal AKA democrat right up til they nominated a black man as their canidate?


I knew someone would say it eventually...congrats on being the first to stoop to that.

I said I was a Democrat, not a patchouli-wearing uber-liberal like some of you folks.

And as far as Obamamama, I've been saying the Emporer has no clothes since day one. I'm one of those bitter, spiteful Hillary supporters who still haven't forgiven Obama for stealing her god-given place as Queen of the DNC away from her.

[DroppinScience]

I said I was a Democrat, not a patchouli-wearing uber-liberal like some of you folks.


Ahh... I get it, you're closer to a George Wallace Democrat than you are a George McGovern Democrat. It all falls into place.

[Echewta]

I'd rather be a " patchouli-wearing uber-liberal like some of you folks" then some hypricritical helicopter hunting jesus freak conservative that the Republicans have thrown into the race.

[King PSYZ]

I knew someone would say it eventually...congrats on being the first to stoop to that.

I said I was a Democrat, not a patchouli-wearing uber-liberal like some of you folks.

And as far as Obamamama, I've been saying the Emporer has no clothes since day one. I'm one of those bitter, spiteful Hillary supporters who still haven't forgiven Obama for stealing her god-given place as Queen of the DNC away from her.

Stoop to what? You are the one who rushed to drop their political beliefs and idiology at the drop of a hat once Obama was locked for the nomination.

And you do have that whole history of racist comments on this very board, so no I am just pointing out the glaring point everyone has politely been stepping around.

You made a jab at the political party you claimed to be a supporter of, you opened the door, I just stepped inside.

[Dorothy Wood]

isn't the hippie thing kind of old, rob? as far as I can tell, the liberals are for the most part level-headed and doing their own research rather than spitting out pre-written lines they've been fed by the conservative media.

Sarah Palin is the antithesis of Hilary Clinton. I'm quite sure she'd be more than annoyed if some gun-toting pro-lifer got into a high office before she did.

you know what you are? you're a flip flopper! that's right, I said it! I reached into my pocket of sanctioned right wing catch phrases, and ba bam!

speaking of sanctioned right wing catch phrases, I think I've heard "she hit it out of the park" in reaction to palin's speech at least 20 times. okay, awesome, she got a home run...in speech giving form? IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING YOU FUCKING ROBOTS, STOP SAYING THINGS THAT YOU HEARD SOMEONE ELSE SAY! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGHHHHHH!


*dabs on patchouli*

[kaiser soze]

I knew someone would say it eventually...congrats on being the first to stoop to that.

I said I was a Democrat, not a patchouli-wearing uber-liberal like some of you folks.

And as far as Obamamama, I've been saying the Emporer has no clothes since day one. I'm one of those bitter, spiteful Hillary supporters who still haven't forgiven Obama for stealing her god-given place as Queen of the DNC away from her.

how many feet can you fit in that mouth?

[NoFenders]

Look, Sarah Palin is basically a brand new commodity who has been polished up, spun and sold to us, the electorate, as a brand new product for the Republican Vice President candidate.



Exactly like that guy running on the Dem ticket. Obama! lol

:cool:

[NoFenders]

You honestly think that the average person knows who Geraldine Ferraro is? You give Americans too much credit, then. Sure, people who lived through that age may know. But people who weren't paying attention then or weren't alive at that time won't know. The average guy on the street won't be able to tell you who she is.

Either you hold yourself a little too high, or you just don't know. Maybe in Canada, the average guy wont know who she is, but if I were to hang out at a local grocery store, I'd be willing to bet 7 out of 10 people would know who she was. To say it's too much credit given to Americans to know their past political runners? Say what?? Come on girl. You're better than that.

:cool:

[kaiser soze]

Exactly like that guy running on the Dem ticket. Obama! lol

:cool:

Not exactly...Obama has been in the public eye much longer than Palin, his credentials and faults are no where's near as ambiguous as hers.

She has basically just popped out of the blue. I'm sure you had no idea who she was prior to this.

I don't think Obama will get the polishing she needs, he's already quite bright

[Dorothy Wood]

Either you hold yourself a little too high, or you just don't know. Maybe in Canada, the average guy wont know who she is, but if I were to hang out at a local grocery store, I'd be willing to bet 7 out of 10 people would know who she was. To say it's too much credit given to Americans to know their past political runners? Say what?? Come on girl. You're better than that.

:cool:


How much are you willing to bet? and if you're talking about a downtown or northside chicago grocery store, that isn't exactly representative of the whole of america. even then, I bet it wouldn't be 7 out of 10.

[kaiser soze]

Palin on Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae - "Too Big for taxpayers"

But yet, it looks like taxpayers will be footing some of the bill for the Mortgage Companies' bailouts

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/08/palin-makes-her-first-gaf_n_124792.html

Check out the youtube video

Speaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers." The companies, as McClatchy reported, "aren't taxpayer funded but operate as private companies. The takeover may result in a taxpayer bailout during reorganization."

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/08/palin-freddie-mac/

further down the rabbit hole...

[QueenAdrock]

Bingo. There's a ton of people who can't even name Condi Rice when SHOWN A PICTURE OF HER. But no, I'm certain those same idiots will know who Ferraro is.


Hey Rob, if Democrats are "uber-liberal," then how do you explain the ideological leanings of those who do support people such as Nader and McKinney? Are they uber UBER liberal? Maybe super-duper liberal? I'm not certain with how you categorize people, so if the Democrats in America are "uber liberals" then I wonder what people to the left of them are.

[kaiser soze]

Hey Rob, if Democrats are "uber-liberal," then how do you explain the ideological leanings of those who do support people such as Nader and McKinney? Are they uber UBER liberal? Maybe super-duper liberal? I'm not certain with how you categorize people, so if the Democrats in America are "uber liberals" then I wonder what people to the left of them are.

I think they've gone "Plaid"

The problem with treating women with respect in politics is this

Republican = Please play nice
Democrat = Eat her alive

Palin pales in comparison to many of the women in politics past and present

[kaiser soze]

Wow, palin church to "Un-gay" people!!!

Maybe they should start with half the republican party, or is this just for openly gay people?

It's not like she was going to win any gay votes anyways

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2008/09/08/1

Gov. Sarah Palin's church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer.

"You'll be encouraged by the power of God's love and His desire to transform the lives of those impacted by homosexuality," according to the insert in the bulletin of the Wasilla Bible Church, where Palin has prayed for about six years.

Palin's conservative Christian views have energized that part of the GOP electorate, which was lukewarm to John McCain's candidacy before he named her as his vice presidential choice. She is staunchly anti-abortion, opposing exceptions for rape and incest, and opposes gay marriage and spousal rights for gay couples.

I wonder if they'll start with Cheney's daughter?

[yeahwho]

This is exactly the results McCain wanted for his candidacy (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dot.comments/2008/09/palin_reinvigorates_the_base.html), he needed the base, he now is getting the base. Unfortunately he'll also now be forever in servitude to the base.

Exactly like that guy running on the Dem ticket. Obama! lol

:cool:

Always after my Lucky Charms aren't you NoFenders. If Sarah Palin had any fucking grit and savvy she would embrace the media, McCain says she is ready to take on Washington, yet CNN is too tough? Fuck let us get the dirt just like the Press did on Obama.

Perhaps to you NoFenders Barack Obama is relatively new, for the rest of the citizenry of the USA the media has been reporting on him daily the past year and the overwhelming majority have been paying attention.

Sarah Palin was not even a blip on the radar until two weeks ago.

If the shoes were reversed and Obama's daughter had a illegitimate kid with a gangsta baby daddy this election would be over.

So fuck the baby skin bullshit the republicans are pulling, get out there and show us the barracuda.

[ToucanSpam]

http://www.wcsh6.com/video/default.aspx?maven_playerId=immersiveplayer&maven_referralObject=850878100


Interesting, McCain defending his VP.

[NoFenders]

Not exactly...Obama has been in the public eye much longer than Palin, his credentials and faults are no where's near as ambiguous as hers.

She has basically just popped out of the blue. I'm sure you had no idea who she was prior to this.

I don't think Obama will get the polishing she needs, he's already quite bright


No,I didn't know who she was before this. I also didn't know who Obama was until he was handed the Senate seat. Once he was in Senate, all people from IL heard about from day one, was that he was running for President. I'm not sure if he got too much experience there. Although they say he was a big part of IL political games. Which scares me even more. If you know anything about Cook county, you'll know that it's a joke when he says he wont be anything like the rest.




:cool:

[kaiser soze]

http://www.wcsh6.com/video/default.aspx?maven_playerId=immersiveplayer&maven_referralObject=850878100


Interesting, McCain defending his VP.

a broken record?

reformer, popular governor, reformer, popular governor, reformer, popular governor....energy

who is the puppet and who is the puppetmaster?

[NoFenders]

How much are you willing to bet? and if you're talking about a downtown or northside chicago grocery store, that isn't exactly representative of the whole of america. even then, I bet it wouldn't be 7 out of 10.

Well, I'll bet you (personally) $20.

I'll pick Treasure Island on Broadway.

You takin that bet??

I can do it Monday. You??








:cool: (I'm being serious. In case you couldn't tell from my smilie face ;) )

[NoFenders]

Bingo. There's a ton of people who can't even name Condi Rice when SHOWN A PICTURE OF HER. But no, I'm certain those same idiots will know who Ferraro is.

Who are you calling idiots?? The majority of Americans?? I mean, it is your belief that Americans don't know anywhere near what you know re: our own political games. So it's easy for me take your line up there and the previous things said as if you're calling Americans a bunch iof idiots. That sure is a way to get people in line voting. Great work!




:cool:

[NoFenders]

Perhaps to you NoFenders Barack Obama is relatively new, for the rest of the citizenry of the USA the media has been reporting on him daily the past year and the overwhelming majority have been paying attention.

No, he's nothing new. He's the same inexperienced guy that was hangin in Chicago the past few years. As I said before, when he was handed his Senate seat, he was almost instantly decided to be our next Presidential Dem nominee. Nothing new to me. I've probably seen more of him than even you.





Sarah Palin was not even a blip on the radar until two weeks ago.

Your point? Does that really make any difference? They didn't pull her out of line at the grocery store ya know.


If the shoes were reversed and Obama's daughter had a illegitimate kid with a gangsta baby daddy this election would be over.

So fuck the baby skin bullshit the republicans are pulling, get out there and show us the barracuda.

I'd say that argument about Obama's daughter is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen you post. Truely pathetic. Gangsta baby daddy?? The Election would be over?? So, again, we go to skin color? What a fucking joke. If he loses, I'm sure you'll all jump on that train. Fucking pathetic.

(n)





:cool:

[taquitos]

its patchouli-scented, not patchouli-wearing. gah.

[jennyb]

Did anyone catch McCain on 'The View' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/12/mccain-grilled-on-the-vie_n_125972.html) I guess today?

I felt like I had to watch these clips with my hands over my eyes while peeking thru my fingers. I thought he looked so trapped and about to go postal any minute.

[Laver1969]

Did anyone catch McCain on 'The View' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/12/mccain-grilled-on-the-vie_n_125972.html) I guess today?

I felt like I had to watch these clips with my hands over my eyes while peeking thru my fingers. I thought he looked so trapped and about to go postal any minute.

I just watched it. He just comes off as so uncomfortable and awkward.

[Echewta]

Which is how he will come off to the terrorist!!!!111 Is this who you really want protecting you from extremest? With a woman in the passenger seat ready to give directions at anytime? NO!

[NoFenders]

Do terrorists sit around and coffee chat like on The View?? lol

I know. Meeting them face to face will be much better.








:cool:

[RobMoney$]

I just watched it. He just comes off as so uncomfortable and awkward.

Yeah, can't say I blame him really.
I mean just look at that panel of Yenta's.

[QueenAdrock]

Who are you calling idiots?? The majority of Americans?? I mean, it is your belief that Americans don't know anywhere near what you know re: our own political games. So it's easy for me take your line up there and the previous things said as if you're calling Americans a bunch iof idiots. That sure is a way to get people in line voting. Great work!




:cool:

The average man is pretty dumb, regardless of nationality.Think of your average guy. The most average Joe you can possibly think of. Well, 49% of the population is dumber than that guy. Most people are uninformed, don't try to stay informed, and they're the reason why we have "Do not use in bathtub" stickers on toasters. I mean, seriously. How many people didn't know that Iraq didn't attack us on 9/11, despite claims to the contrary? I think it was close to 60% for a while.

The people who are signing up to vote are ones who have seen what idiocy does to America. It got Bush elected twice. When talking to first-time voters, they do agree with my sentiments: "I never thought America would be so dumb as to actually vote in Bush for a second term." It seems like people are starting to wake up somewhat, and I have faith in the American public to make the correct decision this election.

[yeahwho]

Did anyone catch McCain on 'The View' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/12/mccain-grilled-on-the-vie_n_125972.html) I guess today?

I felt like I had to watch these clips with my hands over my eyes while peeking thru my fingers. I thought he looked so trapped and about to go postal any minute.

No, but I did see Obama on Letterman, Dave was so cool before the interview he put his 5 year old son's teddy bear named Orange up on the bridge behind his desk before Obama came out. You know he wanted his boy to know he cares about his future and loves him, what better way to send that message than that move just before Barack Obama came on the show.

Heres the Obama spot on Letterman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hf6qd8b65s)... could not find the Orange set up he did for his son, it was very touching and sweet, one of Daves finest moments on television.

[Laver1969]

The people who are signing up to vote are ones who have seen what idiocy does to America. It got Bush elected twice. When talking to first-time voters, they do agree with my sentiments: "I never thought America would be so dumb as to actually vote in Bush for a second term." It seems like people are starting to wake up somewhat, and I have faith in the American public to make the correct decision this election.

I'm just frustrated that a lot of people are distracted by the shiny new object. Ooooo it's pretty, it's seems confident and smart....yeah reform, reform, reform. She's different. She's a Washington outsider. My faith in the American public is starting to disappear.

[mikizee]

I'm just frustrated that a lot of people are distracted by the shiny new object. Ooooo it's pretty, it's seems confident and smart....yeah reform, reform, reform. She's different. She's a Washington outsider. My faith in the American public is starting to disappear.

My faith in the American public disappeared long ago.

They voted in Bush twice for fucks sake. Unless he rigged the election (and there is a fair amount of evidence to support this)

[RobMoney$]

I'm just frustrated that a lot of people are distracted by the shiny new object. Ooooo it's pretty, it's seems confident and smart....yeah reform, reform, reform. She's different. She's a Washington outsider. My faith in the American public is starting to disappear.


Ok, I can tell this was pointed in my direction. All I have to say is that I was publicly supporting McCain on here weeks before he even choose Palin. So I'm not distracted by any shiny new object.

If anything I think you can use this statement to describe Obama-mania running wild over America. "Let's get out of Iraq, let's change as much away from Bush as we can get, let's support this person Obama who because that's what he says he's for, even though we know absolutely nothing about him".

Oh, and BTW, Obama's now realized he can't just get out of Iraq at the snap of his fingers and has changed the one political position that gained him the majority of his supporters in the first place, but it's human nature now that people have choosen a side in this fight they feel a need to defend their decision and their side to the end.

[DroppinScience]

Oh, and BTW, Obama's now realized he can't just get out of Iraq at the snap of his fingers and has changed the one political position that gained him the majority of his supporters in the first place, but it's human nature now that people have choosen a side in this fight they feel a need to defend their decision and their side to the end.

I'd expect this crap from you. Unfortunately, Obama has never been an advocate for immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq. You might be mistaking him for Dennis Kucinich, actually. Like Clinton, Richardson, and most of the mainstream candidates they all had plans of "oh, maybe we'll leave Iraq in 6 months/12 months/18 months" or variations of this. And these declarations would make them flexible to extend their deployments at any time.