Amy Goodman arrested at the RNC

[DroppinScience]

Amy Goodman is the host of the "Democracy Now!" radio show and indisputably one of the greatest American journalists. Hopefully she is released soon.

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2008/9/1/amy_goodman_and_two_democracy_now_producers_unlawf ully_arrested_at_the_rnc

Video of the arrest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYjyvkR0bGQ

[RobMoney$]

I don't know much about this person or what her political points of view are, but the police, no the SWAT had established a perimeter and were telling her if she crossed it she would be arrested.

She decided to cross it.


For what reason I don't know, I guess security has to treat everyone the same. They don't know whether she's a journalist or someone mentally unstable and capable of doing harm.
Entirely her fault in my book, I'm sure she'll use the experience in her next piece.

[saz]

this has nothing to do with her "political points". two of democracy now's producers were arrested for merely covering the street demonstrations at the republican convention. goodman approached the police to ask them about the arrests of the producers, and then they arrested her. she didn't cross a perimeter, nor did the police inform her in that clip if she crossed a perimeter, she'd be arrested.

i have never seen any police nor riot police arrest and man handle journalists and television producers for merely covering an event or protest rally. they knew damn well she was a journalist, she identified herself as a member of the press who had just come from the convention floor, and had her media credentials hanging from her neck. however, i have seen this sort of thing and related footage, manhandling of journalists doing their job, in places such as china.

in advance of the convention, st. paul police conducted armed, "preemptive raids" of half a dozen locations, arrested and detained activists who were merely planning on protesting the convention.

regardless, with the rise of private mercenary groups such as blackwater who were openly patroling new orleans post-katrina, who are not accountable under american law, ditto the infiltration of non-violent anti-war groups over the last seven years, it's becoming more and more apparent that america is slowly moving towards a police state.


St. Paul Police Conduct Mass Preemptive Raids Ahead of Republican Convention

Armed groups of police in the Twin Cities have raided more than half-a-dozen locations since Friday night in a series of “preemptive raids” before the Republican National Convention. The raids and detentions have targeted activists planning to protest the convention, as well as journalists and videographers documenting police actions at protests.

Coleen Rowley, worked as an FBI special agent for almost twenty-four years. In 2002, she was named Time Magazine’s Person of the Year after she blew the whistle on pre-9/11 intelligence failures. She lives just outside Minneapolis.

Bruce Nestor, President of the Minnesota Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild.

link (http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/1/st_paul_police_conduct_mass_pre)


so i guess it's illegal now to protest political conventions, and for the media to cover protests.

[alien autopsy]

fucking pigs

[Echewta]

Bush only speaks in front of crowds of supporters, i.e. military bases, far away from the public. And this is shocking?

[yeahwho]

this has nothing to do with her "political points". two of democracy now's producers were arrested for merely covering the street demonstrations at the republican convention. goodman approached the police to ask them about the arrests of the producers, and then they arrested her. she didn't cross a perimeter, nor did the police inform her in that clip if she crossed a perimeter, she'd be arrested.

i have never seen any police nor riot police arrest and man handle journalists and television producers for merely covering an event or protest rally. they knew damn well she was a journalist, she identified herself as a member of the press who had just come from the convention floor, and had her media credentials hanging from her neck. however, i have seen this sort of thing and related footage, manhandling of journalists doing their job, in places such as china.

in advance of the convention, st. paul police conducted armed, "preemptive raids" of half a dozen locations, arrested and detained activists who were merely planning on protesting the convention.

regardless, with the rise of private mercenary groups such as blackwater who were openly patroling new orleans post-katrina, who are not accountable under american law, ditto the infiltration of non-violent anti-war groups over the last seven years, it's becoming more and more apparent that america is slowly moving towards a police state.


St. Paul Police Conduct Mass Preemptive Raids Ahead of Republican Convention

Armed groups of police in the Twin Cities have raided more than half-a-dozen locations since Friday night in a series of “preemptive raids” before the Republican National Convention. The raids and detentions have targeted activists planning to protest the convention, as well as journalists and videographers documenting police actions at protests.

Coleen Rowley, worked as an FBI special agent for almost twenty-four years. In 2002, she was named Time Magazine’s Person of the Year after she blew the whistle on pre-9/11 intelligence failures. She lives just outside Minneapolis.

Bruce Nestor, President of the Minnesota Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild.

link (http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/1/st_paul_police_conduct_mass_pre)


so i guess it's illegal now to protest political conventions, and for the media to cover protests.

I'm not sure if we're moving slowly or rapidly but I do agree with most everything being posted here. What do you expect when your guilty until accidentally proven innocent? This country has gone so far off the deep end trying to protect us they now just monitor us.

Yet the administration who made these rules wants absolute immunity. And avoidance of subpoena's is no big deal.

Fuck let us see the demonstrators and hear what they have to say without the official corporate MSM line. Bring one of those political demonstrations up here to Seattle, we'll show you how to rock the vote (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=seattle%20wto&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi).

[DroppinScience]

Amy Goodman and two "Democracy Now!" producers are now released! (y)

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/09/02-0

[yeahwho]

Amy Goodman and two "Democracy Now!" producers are now released! (y)

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/09/02-0


And as I walked on
Through troubled times
My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes
So where are the strong
And who are the trusted?
And where is the harmony?
Sweet harmony.

Nice party there GOP. Keeping it real.

[travesty]

.... it's becoming more and more apparent that america is slowly moving towards a police state.

.

And yet retaining our full second ammendment rights mean so little to most people. Without it, the people who arrested Mrs. Goodman are the people we are entrusting with the security of ourselves and our families!?!?! Does that seem rational? :confused:

Honor the constitution.

[RobMoney$]

On Tuesday, Democracy Now! will broadcast video of these arrests, as well as the broader police action.


I stopped reading DS's link when I got to this.

You all seem like relatively intelligent people, why can't you guys see through BS like this?


...Let's all go to the RNC and antagonize some $40k a year cops into arresting us so we can look like the poor little victim and we'll use it all to promote ourselves and our show. Well have the campus uber-liberals practically eating out of our hands...


I also got a good chuckle out of this too...

Salazar's violent arrest by baton-wielding officers, during which she was slammed to the ground while yelling, "I'm Press! Press!," resulted in her nose bleeding,

Talk about naive, as if the cops would all of a sudden decide to take his knee out of her back and apologize because they were press.

[Drederick Tatum]

in the video why do the police have full body armour and metre long sticks? looking in from the outside it looks more like Thailand than the land of the free.

[saz]

so, according to your logic then rob, should all peaceful protests be banned in america? should citizens not have the right to peacefully protest, and just shut up about everything? because all these people were doing was staging a peaceful protest. and all the media were doing there, not only democracy now, but the associated press and the new york post, were covering the protest. so, should cops in full riot gear and armour just beat the shit out of anyone they like, especially those obeying the law, protesting peacefully, and even the media for exercising their right to freedom of the press? if so, then you would've loved germany in the 30s.

[DroppinScience]

Talk about naive, as if the cops would all of a sudden decide to take his knee out of her back and apologize because they were press.

And I guess the cops who beat Rodney King deserve to be acquitted, too...

[RobMoney$]

so, according to your logic then rob, should all peaceful protests be banned in america? should citizens not have the right to peacefully protest, and just shut up about everything? because all these people were doing was staging a peaceful protest. and all the media were doing there, not only democracy now, but the associated press and the new york post, were covering the protest. so, should cops in full riot gear and armour just beat the shit out of anyone they like, especially those obeying the law, protesting peacefully, and even the media for exercising their right to freedom of the press? if so, then you would've loved germany in the 30s.


Where did I say anything about my opinions about peaceful protests?
"Peaceful" can be a very blurry term sometimes.
I contend that perhaps there's a bit of opportune grandstanding going on here under the guise of "Peaceful Protesting".

Does anyone know why that perimeter was being established and why these folks found themselves flirting with it? Like I said, I stopped reading Lambert's link once I got to the part where they wanted me to tune into their show.

If there was improper conduct by the police here, are the police being reprimanded at all, suspended pending investigation? Is there an investagation being undertaken?
I'm guessing there's not.
Anyone care to venture a guess why not...

[RobMoney$]

And I guess the cops who beat Rodney King deserve to be acquitted, too...

...said the bleeding heart.



Rodney King dude? You're grasping.

[saz]

no rob, there was no "opportune grandstanding" going on here. they were largely peaceful protests, and the protestors were attacked and arrested by riot police, ditto those from democracy now, the associated press, and the new york post.

the protestors and the media were in public spaces, specifically a street and a parking lot. these areas were not off limits. oh and of course you stopped reading the link once it got to the part where you could tune in and actually learn more, you know, eye witness accounts from those who were there and know what happened.

this just happened the other day, on monday. we will have to wait and see if there will be an investigation, and if any of the officers will be reprimanded and suspended.

[saz]

Mass show of peaceful dissent soon makes a violent descent

By CURT BROWN, Star Tribune

Last update: September 2, 2008 - 12:08 PM

Bolstered by emergency help from the Minnesota National Guard, police in St. Paul arrested 284 people Monday after outbreaks of violence and road obstructions linked to rogue bands of demonstrators among an otherwise peaceful throng estimated at 10,000 people.

The demonstrations, on a steamy first day of the Republican National Convention, began with block after block of marchers -- far fewer than the 50,000 some had predicted -- chanting and peacefully waving signs on downtown St. Paul's narrow streets. As the day wore on, the carnival atmosphere turned ugly.

Before most of the demonstrators had finished their march, a few hundred protesters splintered off and became confrontational and sometimes violent. Some smashed windows at Macy's and a downtown bank building. Others challenged police by blocking roads.

Late Monday, authorities said 130 of the 284 people arrested may face felony charges. Dozens were pepper-sprayed and tear-gassed. One police officer was punched in the back, and another suffered from heat exhaustion. St. Paul emergency rooms reported nine minor injuries and several heat-related cases.

Hundreds of police officers, sweltering in heavy riot gear, swept in to block streets and protect delegate buses. About 3 p.m., St. Paul police requested help from 150 National Guard troops.

St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman said officers showed restraint as a small number of law-breaking demonstrators marred an otherwise peaceful day of free speech.

"Their efforts were nothing short of heroic," Coleman said. "They did not fail. They did not take the bait."

But observers from the National Lawyers Guild took issue with police action.

"We think it's unconscionable. We think it's out of control," said Gina Berglund, an attorney and legal observer coordinator for the guild's Minnesota chapter. "The response by the police was completely out of proportion with what they were faced with."

St. Paul Police Chief John Harrington said the troublemakers came from a half-dozen loosely organized groups totaling up to 180 people, a small fraction of Monday's turnout.

Some delegates attacked

Members of the Connecticut and Alabama delegations reported being attacked at one point by protesters. Connecticut delegate Rob Simmons told KMSP-TV that protesters tried to rip the credentials off delegates' necks and sprayed them with a toxic substance that burned their eyes. One 80-year-old delegate was treated for injuries, and several others had to rinse their eyes and clothing.

Also, retired Alabama Supreme Court Judge Terry Butts said about 100 protesters approached a delegation bus and one threw a brick through a window. Butts said the bus driver suffered cuts.

A cross-section of dissent

Protesters had come from across the state and the country for what was expected to be the week's largest demonstration. They marched after a noon rally at the State Capitol, snaking down a route that circled in front of the Xcel Energy Center as delegates arrived for a session cut short by Hurricane Gustav.

Cu Nyugen, a Vietnamese native who lives in Minneapolis, brought his 12-year-old daughter, Mai, on the eve of her first day of sixth grade. "It's important for the younger generation to see and learn about different points of view," Nyugen said.

Marie Williams, 77, of Minneapolis, carried a "Dissent Is Patriotic" placard. "I started coming to protests with Paul Wellstone," she said.

Some were disappointed by the turnout, wondering if the 90-degree heat, aggressive police and President Bush's cancellation thinned the crowd.

"I'm disappointed -- this is far too few people," said Lennie Major, a teacher from Mounds View. "We needed 10 times this many to make an impact; this will only be a blip."

Escalating violence

Harrington said the first illegal salvo happened about 11 a.m., when a Dumpster was shoved into an occupied squad car on W. 7th Street. "I'm not sure how anyone can say that's protest," Harrington said.

The peaceful mood started to change after 1:30 p.m., when several groups broke off and began resisting police. The biggest showdown occurred about 5:30 p.m., when police in riot gear cornered about 80 protesters near the Mississippi River below the Minnesota Science Museum. Daniel Streltz, a freelance photographer, said the protesters sat down when police ordered them to disperse. By early evening, police had arrested most of them.

About 3 p.m., about 250 people locked arms to block delegate buses near Robert Street and Kellogg Boulevard. They were in a standoff with 100 police officers, and authorities warned them to disperse. Minutes later, when the group refused to move, officers tossed in a dozen tear-gas canisters, prompting the crowd to retreat.

Some demonstrators then attempted to line the street with obstacles. Witnesses said police also used concussion grenades and smoke bombs.

"Most of [the demonstrators] were pretty good," said CarolLee Folsom, a bystander who used to work for the Ramsey County Sheriff's Office. "But you don't know what any of these people are going to do. And they warned them, so anybody that wanted to get out could have gotten out."

Demonstrator Andrew Sigmundik, 18, disagreed, saying that the police went overboard and that he witnessed "one guy in a wheelchair getting Maced and some other people getting hit by police batons.

"Nobody was trying to cause destruction or violence," he said. "The idea was to just block the streets. We were just trying to disrupt the delegation, and I think we succeeded."

At about 2 p.m., protesters dropped bent nails into the intersection at 6th and Wacouta Streets. A group of more than 200 tossed garbage cans and newspaper kiosks into the road. A few marchers broke off and threw objects, shattering three windows in a bank building at 4th and Minnesota Streets.

Others continued up 6th, pursued by more than a dozen slow-moving police cars. A few officers walked in front of the cars, clearing the barriers the marchers had thrown in the street. By the time they reached 6th and Cedar, many of the marchers began to disperse. Some smashed three windows at Macy's. One person jumped up and down a few times on the roof of a parked police car before breaking its windows.

An alternative broadcaster, "Democracy Now" host Amy Goodman, was among an estimated 40 people arrested about 5 p.m. near the corner of 8th and Jackson. She was arrested as she tried to prevent the arrests of two colleagues, a producer for her show said.

Associated Press photographer Matt Rourke also was arrested when he was swept up with a group of protesters. He was released without charges.

link (http://www.startribune.com/politics/27736044.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUec7Pa P3E77K_0c::D3aDhUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU)

[yeahwho]

The message I get as I sit comfortably here raging at my keyboard is if your going to have a physical presence while exercising your first amendment, the odds are you'll be arrested. That is the message I'm getting.

I don't give a shit if the cops want to wear a Michelin man outfit while I join others and protest the current administrations policies, keep your hands off of me. Keep your fucked up police away from me.

This is fundamental civil rights, we have a voice just barely anymore. The rational ones outside the convention are being painted as nutcases. Inside the convention they're bitching about legal abortions and how do we make them illegal again.

Why people don't see this and what is happening is beyond me. This is really happening. Televised and in all other forms of media. They are reporting to you daily about how your rights are slipping away.

[saz]

Peaceful park protest lingers, ends in tear gas

Pioneer Press staff

Article Last Updated: 09/03/2008 03:32:52 AM CDT


Though anger at police bubbled up and officers used tear gas on crowds Tuesday, the streets of St. Paul were calmer than on the first day of the Republican National Convention.

After more than 280 people were arrested Monday, the arrests totaled 10 by late Tuesday.

A peaceful protest in the evening drew about 2,000 people. Roughly 1,000 started out from Mears Park in the Poor People's Economic Human Rights Campaign's March for Our Lives.

When they got to the state Capitol, they were joined by about 1,000 more who had been there for the RippleEffect concert.

At the end of the fest, the band Rage Against the Machine turned up for an impromptu performance. They weren't allowed to take the stage, reportedly because of a time limit. The band performed via megaphone and then left the area in SUVs, driving straight through the tail end of the march.

The detour through the crowd angered some.

"Get out of your car and join the march!" several yelled.

But the celebrities inadvertently doubled the size of the march, as those who had assembled to see them joined protesters as they made their way to the Xcel Energy Center.

March leader Cheri Honkala halted the group and urged participants to remain in place while she tried to deliver a citizens' arrest warrant to officials at the Xcel. The crowd chanted: "I promise to stay right here and to be peaceful."

With that, Honkala and others made their way to the barrier gates of the Xcel. After trying in two places and not being greeted by anybody, Honkala implored officers inside to deliver the warrant for her.

"Don't just stand there and look at us and get ready to Tase us," she said to officers in full riot gear on the other side of the gate. "The whole world is watching."

Later, police shot tear-gas canisters at protesters who lingered near Mickey's Diner on Seventh Street.

They also set off concussion grenades in an attempt to scatter the crowd and sprayed pepper spray from the sides of the street as people fled.

Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher was on hand, telling the crowd to disperse.

Right before they shot off the gas, a legal observer in the crowd argued with protesters.

"If you want to get gassed, stay. If you don't, go," he said. "It was a great march. Why ruin it?"

Matt Burdi, 17, of St. Paul, was sprayed in the face after trading words with police near the corner of 10th and St. Peter streets.

"They said, 'Get back, get back,'" Burdi said. "I said, 'I'm not doing anything. I have the right to stand here.'"

Earlier Tuesday, St. Paul Police Chief John Harrington said, "We're looking forward to a day of a little more normality than we had yesterday, obviously."

But people were angered by a large police presence outside Mears Park before the March for Our Lives. When officers arrested someone near Fifth and Wacouta streets, a crowd rushed to the corner and into the street. Two others were arrested, one for disorderly conduct.

The crowd shouted, "Let them go!" and "fascists" at police, demanding badge numbers.

"I was walking to the bathroom when they grabbed me," said a woman who gave her name as Wendy Minion of Portland indymedia as she was loaded into a police cruiser.

Bruce Nestor, a Poor People's March attorney, blamed the arrests on the police, saying if there were no officers there, nothing would have happened.

Police on horses tried to push people back into the park. Not long after, the march began and the crowd dispersed.

On Tuesday, St. Paul hospitals reported treating at least 25 people for injuries related to Monday's protests and sporadic clashes with law enforcement, including injuries from tear gas and pepper spray. Among those treated were two children who inhaled pepper spray.

Mara H. Gottfried, John Brewer, Frederick Melo, Jason Hoppin, Dave Orrick, Tad Vezner, Jeremy Olson and Michael Marchio contributed to this report.

link (http://www.twincities.com/rnc/ci_10366345)

[saz]

AP photog arrested while covering anti-war protest

By SCOTT BAUER – 1 day ago

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — An Associated Press photographer and a Democracy Now! TV and radio show host were among those arrested at an anti-war march on the first day of the Republican National Convention. Both were released hours later.

Police said Tuesday they arrested 286 people during Monday's event. Most of the estimated 10,000 people in the march were peaceful, but small groups that police said numbered about 200 broke windows, slashed tires and harassed delegates.

A different group, the Poor People's Economic Human Rights Committee, was going ahead with a planned march on Tuesday. This committee obtained a permit for its march, though spokeswoman Cheri Honkala said the group would deviate from its permitted path to go by the county jail where some of those arrested Monday were still held.

The committee is separate from the RNC Welcoming Committee, a group of self-described anarchists who vowed to keep up their street protests all week.

AP photographer Matt Rourke was covering the protest when he was swept up by police moving in on a group of protesters in downtown St. Paul. Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman was arrested as she asked police in riot gear about the status of two producers who had been arrested, one of whom she had heard was bleeding. The producers also were released later.

David Ake, an AP assistant chief of bureau in Washington, said he was concerned by the arrest of Rourke, a Philadelphia-based photographer.

"Covering news is a constitutionally protected activity, and covering a riot is part of that coverage," Ake said. "Photographers should not be detained for covering breaking news."

Phil Carruthers, director of the prosecution division of the Ramsey County Attorney's Office, said Monday night that no charges against Rourke were anticipated. Rourke, held on a gross misdemeanor riot charge, was released early Tuesday. Goodman also was released without charges being filed against her.

Democracy Now! producers Sharif Abdel Kouddous and Nicole Salazar were arrested while they carried out their journalistic duties, Democracy Now! said in a statement. Democracy Now! said Kouddous and Salazar were arrested on a felony riot charge while Goodman was charged with misdemeanor obstruction of a legal process and interference with a peace officer.

All three appeared on Goodman's show on Tuesday and recounted their experience. A video of Goodman's arrest, aired on her program and also posted on YouTube, shows her begging police not to arrest her before being taken away in handcuffs.

Court proceedings moved slowly Tuesday morning as at least 22 people facing misdemeanor charges had refused to give their real names, said Dave Gill, a Ramsey County public defender. Only two people had gone through initial hearings by midday.

When protesters hit the streets of St. Paul on Monday to disrupt the convention, nearly every move they made was immediately relayed through webs of text messages and instantaneous Internet posts, in contrast to previous times when word more likely was spread via bullhorns and walkie-talkies. St. Paul police kept pace with a network of 103 video cameras mounted at strategic spots near the Xcel Energy Center and throughout downtown that fed live footage into a command center.

It all added up to something like a massive game of virtual chess, as demonstrators used electronic flashes to keep their allies one step ahead of police — who responded with countermoves aimed at quelling chaos before it had the chance to flare.

"kellogg and ireland need reinforcement, 10 cops on horses," read a message filed Monday afternoon on a protester feed at Twitter.com, a so-called "microblog" where users can post brief messages that immediately bounce to the cell phones of subscribers. Hundreds of similar messages ping-ponged through cyberspace during Monday's demonstration, alerting demonstrators to areas of downtown they should avoid and other spots where reinforcements were needed.

"All of a sudden you have hundreds of eyes and ears telling you what's happening on the ground," said David Taylor, a veteran San Francisco activist.

Every Twitter feed is available to anyone with Internet access, and Taylor said in his experience police have learned to monitor the site as well. St. Paul Police Sgt. Jack Serier wouldn't say whether police were monitoring Twitter, but he said the extensive network of video cameras were a tremendous boost in tracking the movement of demonstrators.

link (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hksHDv1i55R2qYI6dkmMm10uxZ0AD92UQ8TG0)

[saz]

riot police manhandling and arresting journalist amy goodman, for merely doing her job as a member of the press:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYjyvkR0bGQ

amy goodman, and democracy now producers sharif abdel kouddous and nicole salazar discuss being attacked, assaulted and arrested by riot police:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnTtZOy5hO4

[DroppinScience]

Talk about naive, as if the cops would all of a sudden decide to take his knee out of her back and apologize because they were press.

This is a particularly stupid point. Do you know that back in the '70s, Amy Goodman was covering the East Timor crisis. She witnessed some mass killings and the Indonesian Army beat her. Some Australian journalists got killed for it. They were likely about to kill her until she cried out that she was a U.S. citizen and then they spared her life. The reason her American citizenship saved her life? The U.S. was funding said Indonesian Army.

Going by this one case, explaining yourself -- even to military thugs in a police state -- can save you your life. If you're a member of the press, I would think that the police may want to stop beating you for no apparent reason.

But of course they're "uber-liberals" so they deserve it, right?

You're no better than the right-wingers who said that those who were killed at Kent State deserved it(which also included one individual who was a bystander and had nothing to do with that PEACEFUL demonstration).

[yeahwho]

You're no better than the right-wingers who said that those who were killed at Kent State deserved it(which also included one individual who was a bystander and had nothing to do with that PEACEFUL demonstration).
He's a maverick not a right-winger.

[RobMoney$]

I wasn't aware her life was in jeopardy?

The video camera must have misssed that part.

[Bob]

I also got a good chuckle out of this too...



Talk about naive, as if the cops would all of a sudden decide to take his knee out of her back and apologize because they were press.

i would think that if i were a cop, i would be reluctant to beat a reporter. i would be reluctant to even beat people in the presence of reporters, i would prefer my beatings to stay unreported

but i suppose if i'm already beating her, what the hell, why not go all the way with it

[Documad]

The protesters don't have the right to enter the Xcel Arena. They don't have the right to stop traffic that is trying to drive down city streets. They don't have the right to drop bent nails into the intersection at 6th and Wacouta. They don't have the right to toss garbage cans and newspaper kiosks into the road. They don't have the right to shatter three windows in a bank building at 4th and Minnesota Street. They don't have the right to stop the RNC from starting their convention. They don't have the right to harass tourists or residents. I think you get the idea.

10,000 people marched peacefully. 200 didn't. The police have the right and the responsibility to arrest the 200 who didn't.

I don't know anything about the specifics of what went down. It sounds like the violent 200 protesters peeled out from the main group and started destroying property. I don't know whether the press got mingled with them or whether the press were keeping some decent distance from the protest itself. But if small groups of violent protesters started peeling out from the main parade route to destroy property, then I wouldn't be surprised if they wound up mingled with press, and I'm not terribly surprised if some press people were arrested, even though it's embarrassing for the police administration.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the slashed car tires and damage to private property including cars and homes of city residents. And remember that these were not anti-war protesters. They were scummy idiots who came for the expressed purpose of engaging in criminal activity.

[RobMoney$]

i would think that if i were a cop, i would be reluctant to beat a reporter. i would be reluctant to even beat people in the presence of reporters, i would prefer my beatings to stay unreported

but i suppose if i'm already beating her, what the hell, why not go all the way with it


Was she beaten?

[RobMoney$]

The protesters don't have the right to enter the Xcel Arena. They don't have the right to stop traffic that is trying to drive down city streets. They don't have the right to drop bent nails into the intersection at 6th and Wacouta. They don't have the right to toss garbage cans and newspaper kiosks into the road. They don't have the right to shatter three windows in a bank building at 4th and Minnesota Street. They don't have the right to stop the RNC from starting their convention. They don't have the right to harass tourists or residents. I think you get the idea.

10,000 people marched peacefully. 200 didn't. The police have the right and the responsibility to arrest the 200 who didn't.

I don't know anything about the specifics of what went down. It sounds like the violent 200 protesters peeled out from the main group and started destroying property. I don't know whether the press got mingled with them or whether the press were keeping some decent distance from the protest itself. But if small groups of violent protesters started peeling out from the main parade route to destroy property, then I wouldn't be surprised if they wound up mingled with press, and I'm not terribly surprised if some press people were arrested, even though it's embarrassing for the police administration.


Well that certainly sheds a non-partisan light on things. <3 Doc.

So a perimeter was established because VIOLENCE had erupted and the police were trying to PROTECT the residents of the twin cities...And Amy decided it would be a good idea to run into that perimeter of SWAT and announce "don't arrest me, I'm press!".

Why would she do such a thing?
Because she's made a fucking career off of it.

[yeahwho]

Who were the people arrested? Are they an organized group or random agitators? Do they represent a fascist, anarchic group? Did they have ties to any undercover activity at this demonstration?

I think we should be able to know who exactly was causing the damage. That is Amy Goodman's job.

[Documad]

I don't know exactly what happened when the various arrests took place. I haven't heard that she did anything outrageous. I think she was trying to help what appeared to be two younger members of her crew. That's a natural reaction, but it's also not so smart.

A reporter doesn't actually have the right to personally intervene to stop police even if they think the police are doing something wrong. They can record the event but not interfere.

[RobMoney$]

Who were the people arrested? Are they an organized group or random agitators? Do they represent a fascist, anarchic group? Did they have ties to any undercover activity at this demonstration?

I think we should be able to know who exactly was causing the damage. That is Amy Goodman's job.

It's also important to understand SWAT's job here too.
Unless the assholes who were causing the trouble were all wearing t-shirts identifying themselves as such, the police have no choice but to treat everyone as if they were a potential troublemaker until they get things sorted out.
That means every garden variety patchouli wearing hippie running and screaming at them is a suspect, which this woman did.

"Peaceful" can be a very blurry term sometimes. INDEED.

[Bob]

That means every garden variety patchouli wearing hippie running and screaming at them is a suspect, which this woman did.


all i have to go by is the youtube video but i'm not sure i see that. granted, the video starts a little late, but from what it shows, she approaches the line (at walking speed), with press credentials around her neck, she says something (not yelling) to the officers. one of the officers stops her and says "sidewalk. now." she stops, says some more things (again, not yelling), the officer pushes her away, at some point she stops and turns around and says "sir i want to talk to security". the officer says "arrest her!" and at this point (15 seconds in) it's not entirely clear what happens. either she moves across the line and the officer is trying to hold her back, or the officer is pushing her across the line and she's trying to hold her ground. maybe i'm just being an uber liberal whippersnapper but it kind of looks like she's being pushed. the officers weren't exactly scrambling to tackle her. either way she's saying "don't arrest me" the whole time, so i find it kind of odd that she'd be charging the swat blockade and asking politely not to be arrested.

i don't know i'm not exactly condemning the officers or anything; even if they were in the wrong in this isolated case, i can understand being a little on edge after a day of arresting tire-slashing window-smashing anarchists, i'm just saying i don't see anything in the video that indicates that she charged across the swat perimeter screaming like a maniac. she might have actually even been pushed across the perimeter. i'll concede that the video could have left that part out, but if you're saying that's what she did, where's the proof of it? it doesn't look like she was trying to force her way past the perimeter, she appears to have been just trying to talk to the officers (who were understandably not interested in talking).

[GlobemalloSpike]

granted, the video starts a little late, but from what it shows, she approaches the line (at walking speed), with press credentials around her neck, she says something (not yelling) to the officers. -...- it's not entirely clear what happens. either she moves across the line and the officer is trying to hold her back, or the officer is pushing her across the line and she's trying to hold her ground.

Here's an interview she gave to TYT. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8du4mf49ARs)
She was, in fact, pulled through the perimeter.
The start of the video shows the entire exchange she had with the police.
I think the beginning of the vid seems hasty since she came directly from the floor inside the convention,
where she was interviewing delegates.

the police have no choice but to treat everyone as if they were a potential troublemaker until they get things sorted out.

Things should have been "sorted out" once she identified herself as a member of the press!
For the police to detain her, bus her to a holding pen for hours, and charge her with a crime is simply unconstitutional.
The press have the right to do their job unfettered.
Instead, the secret service just ripped her convention press pass from her neck, and she was booked.

Here's one of those internet petitions calling for (http://www.freepress.net/) dismissal of all charges and an end to intimidation levied against journalists.
Sign on, if'n anyone believes in the effectiveness of these things.

And here's another video showing the well reasoned response of St. Paul SWAT. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyvsc1ktgJE)
Rob, I'm sure this one will just make you laugh,
although pepper spray usually overpowers the smell of patchouli.

[ToucanSpam]

The protesters don't have the right to enter the Xcel Arena. They don't have the right to stop traffic that is trying to drive down city streets. They don't have the right to drop bent nails into the intersection at 6th and Wacouta. They don't have the right to toss garbage cans and newspaper kiosks into the road. They don't have the right to shatter three windows in a bank building at 4th and Minnesota Street. They don't have the right to stop the RNC from starting their convention. They don't have the right to harass tourists or residents. I think you get the idea.

10,000 people marched peacefully. 200 didn't. The police have the right and the responsibility to arrest the 200 who didn't.

I don't know anything about the specifics of what went down. It sounds like the violent 200 protesters peeled out from the main group and started destroying property. I don't know whether the press got mingled with them or whether the press were keeping some decent distance from the protest itself. But if small groups of violent protesters started peeling out from the main parade route to destroy property, then I wouldn't be surprised if they wound up mingled with press, and I'm not terribly surprised if some press people were arrested, even though it's embarrassing for the police administration.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the slashed car tires and damage to private property including cars and homes of city residents. And remember that these were not anti-war protesters. They were scummy idiots who came for the expressed purpose of engaging in criminal activity.


Excellent points. I don't fully understand exactly why the police stepped in and arrested her. Am I to understand that she was entering an area she was prohibited from entering? Or is this a matter of wrong place/wrong time? I'm not being coy, I legitimately do not understand.

Once again when a large group of people gather to protest, the intentions are admirable but there is always a portion of the protesters who are not as much interested in the cause as burning/destroying/pillaging/promoting chaos. The same thing happened in the Scientology protests.

What I am gathering from this situation was Goodman was pulled into one of these destructive groups by mistake (or on purpose.) and she encountered a difficult situation with SWAT police officers. Is she in the wrong? Are the police in the wrong?

At least the arrested journalist and her co-workers were released.

[saz]

The protesters don't have the right to enter the Xcel Arena. They don't have the right to stop traffic that is trying to drive down city streets. They don't have the right to drop bent nails into the intersection at 6th and Wacouta. They don't have the right to toss garbage cans and newspaper kiosks into the road. They don't have the right to shatter three windows in a bank building at 4th and Minnesota Street. They don't have the right to stop the RNC from starting their convention. They don't have the right to harass tourists or residents. I think you get the idea.

10,000 people marched peacefully. 200 didn't. The police have the right and the responsibility to arrest the 200 who didn't.

i agree, no one is disputing that.



I don't know anything about the specifics of what went down.

maybe it wouldn't hurt then to get familiar with what happened.


It sounds like the violent 200 protesters peeled out from the main group and started destroying property. I don't know whether the press got mingled with them or whether the press were keeping some decent distance from the protest itself. But if small groups of violent protesters started peeling out from the main parade route to destroy property, then I wouldn't be surprised if they wound up mingled with press, and I'm not terribly surprised if some press people were arrested, even though it's embarrassing for the police administration.

that's still no excuse nor justification for riot police to go ape shit on journalists and members of the media and beat them up.


Was she beaten?

she was pushed around and treated like a criminal resisting arrest. the two producers were assaulted and left with cuts and bruises. the associated press guy and photographer from the new york post were also thrown and tossed around.


Well that certainly sheds a non-partisan light on things. <3 Doc.

so, according to your logic, riot police assaulting journalists is merely a partisan issue?


So a perimeter was established because VIOLENCE had erupted and the police were trying to PROTECT the residents of the twin cities...And Amy decided it would be a good idea to run into that perimeter of SWAT and announce "don't arrest me, I'm press!".

the media have every right to cover events and news-making events. and that's not how it went down. she approached them, they could clearly see that she was a member of the media, especially considering that she had a convention access badge. and she didn't "run into that permeter". it would help if you actually bothered to watch the footage.


Why would she do such a thing?
Because she's made a fucking career off of it.

yeah, she's made a career of being a very brave and outstanding journalist.



I haven't heard that she did anything outrageous. I think she was trying to help what appeared to be two younger members of her crew. That's a natural reaction, but it's also not so smart. A reporter doesn't actually have the right to personally intervene to stop police even if they think the police are doing something wrong. They can record the event but not interfere

she was doing her job and enquiring about why two of her producers, members of the media, were attacked and arrested. there's nothing wrong with that. she wasn't trying to personally intervene to stop the police.


It's also important to understand SWAT's job here too.
Unless the assholes who were causing the trouble were all wearing t-shirts identifying themselves as such, the police have no choice but to treat everyone as if they were a potential troublemaker until they get things sorted out.
That means every garden variety patchouli wearing hippie running and screaming at them is a suspect, which this woman did.

"Peaceful" can be a very blurry term sometimes. INDEED.

man, could you talk out of your ass anymore? she was a member of the media who identified herself as such, who just came from the floor of the convention. the police knew this, but didn't care.

Excellent points. I don't fully understand exactly why the police stepped in and arrested her. Am I to understand that she was entering an area she was prohibited from entering? Or is this a matter of wrong place/wrong time? I'm not being coy, I legitimately do not understand.

then watch the footage.

she approached the police. she identified herself as a member of the media, who had just come from the convention floor. she had her media credentials hanging around her neck. the police could see this and knew that she was a member of the press. she was enquiring about two of her producers who were attacked and arrested by the police. and then they arrested her, for doing her job.

[ToucanSpam]

then watch the footage.


The footage is 48 seconds long, do you think it is an accurate depiction of absolutely everything? A short clip like this isn't enough.

[saz]

in regards to what happened to amy, it is.

[ToucanSpam]

in regards to what happened to amy, it is.

No, it really isn't enough. I'd like to see exactly what happened BEFORE and AFTER the very short clip. Personally I like to see the entire event and not the end result before I make any sort of judgment.

[saz]

a member of the media approaches the police. the member of the media identifies herself as a member of the media. she shows the police her credentials, and asks about her two producers who were arrested. the police then arrest her for doing her job.

sometimes cops can be very abusive and act like total thugs. that isn't a sweeping generalization against all police. the majority of police are not thugs and are good people, and need to uphold the law and maintain order. but some of the reactions in this thread are perplexing, as if people haven't heard of police overstepping their bounds before.

many of the youtube links, including interviews and the testimony of goodman and her producers who were arrested, are posted in this thread.

[ToucanSpam]

Any links for the testimonies of the police officers, or are they invalid? Just wondering.

[saz]

no, of course not. great to assume though that any testimonies of the police are invalid. but for some reason i don't anticipate the actual cops who acted like thugs and manhandled journalists to come running forward.

[RobMoney$]

And here's another video showing the well reasoned response of St. Paul SWAT. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyvsc1ktgJE)
Rob, I'm sure this one will just make you laugh,
although pepper spray usually overpowers the smell of patchouli.


She deserved to be pepper sprayed.
If you see two dozen SWAT doing a riot march towards you, it's time to get out of the way and go home.

What do you think happened, SWAT gets a call about some dirty hippies who need a haircut and are wearing shirts without collars are gathering at the local park and SWAT gets dressed in full riot gear to bust heads? Something happened that required them to be called to restore order, but I don't think sazi will want to explore that portion of the story.

Fucking bleeding hearts are perpetual victims.

[saz]

no rob, that is a portion of the story i have no qualms about exploring whatsoever.

if i saw two dozen riot police clearing an area, i would not approach them.

however, police officers assaulting journalists and arresting them for doing their job is inexcusable.

oh, and i'm very sure that's how it happened. i'm sure the st. paul and surrounding police jurisdictions were notified about "some dirty hippies who need a haircut and are wearing shirts without collars are gathering at the local park".

"fucking bleeding hearts are perpetual victims"

calm down there, limbaugh.

[Documad]

maybe it wouldn't hurt then to get familiar with what happened.

I would like to, but the information available on the internet thus far doesn't do it for me. I listened to her interview and I watched the videos on youtube like everyone else. I also listened to the Q&A with the mayor and police officials. None of that helped me much. The accounts she gave in interviews don't answer my questions. I would also like to know more from the viewpoint of the secret service agent and cops involved.


No, it really isn't enough. I'd like to see exactly what happened BEFORE and AFTER the very short clip. Personally I like to see the entire event and not the end result before I make any sort of judgment.
Yeah, I'd like all the facts rather than just her account, which is thus far an incomplete account even from her viewpoint.

[Documad]

I'll admit that my viewpoint is somewhat influenced by the fact that I know some local and state police officers (though I doubt I know the ones who were directly involved with Goodman). I've also watched this situation develop all week in person. A bunch of relatively young officers have a tough job and they've done it well thus far, all things considered.

Also, I'm pretty sick of the journalists and the way they cover this. There are more idiots with cameras than real protesters much of the time.

As for the protesters -- the real protesters have the right to be seen and heard. They don't have the right to shut down the city.

[DroppinScience]

What is it about 1st amendment rights that pisses people off so much when they actually decide to go and use them?

(No, I'm not referring to you, Documad)

[saz]

well, video footage (the proverbial camera doesn't lie) has convinced more than 50,000 others:

Delivery of 50,000 Letters Demanding St. Paul Drop Charges Against Journalists

ST. PAUL, Minn. -- On Friday morning, local advocates and independent journalists will deliver more that 50,000 petitions to St. Paul City Hall calling on Mayor Chris Coleman and local law enforcement officials to drop all charges against journalists arrested while covering protests outside the Republican National Convention.

On Monday, local law enforcement officials arrested Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman and two producers from her show, Associated Press photographer Matt Rourke and several independent videographers while they were covering protests outside the Republican National Convention. Other independent journalists have also been pepper-sprayed and even held at gunpoint during "pre-emptive" raids aimed at disrupting protesters.

"The targeting and harassment of journalists that we've seen during the RNC sends the message that the Twin Cities don't value the essential role that journalists play in a democracy," said Nancy Doyle Brown of Twin Cities Media Alliance. "From the pre-convention raids to the ongoing harassment and arrests of journalists, these have been dark days for press freedom in the United States. We're bringing Mayor Coleman more than 50,000 letters from people across the nation demanding that all charges pending against these journalists be dropped."

[saz]

I'll admit that my viewpoint is somewhat influenced by the fact that I know some local and state police officers (though I doubt I know the ones who were directly involved with Goodman). I've also watched this situation develop all week in person. A bunch of relatively young officers have a tough job and they've done it well thus far, all things considered.

oh man. i'd say your viewpoint then is a little more than "somewhat" influenced by the fact you know some cops. and i know quite a few cops as myself. one of my friends from the gym i work out at is a cop, yet i can differentiate between good cops and the macho fascist jocks on a power trip.


Also, I'm pretty sick of the journalists and the way they cover this. There are more idiots with cameras than real protesters much of the time.

shame on the media for covering protests.

[Documad]

What is it about 1st amendment rights that pisses people off so much when they actually decide to go and use them?

(No, I'm not referring to you, Documad)

I think that there is a misunderstanding on both sides as to what the first amendment allows. The government can put lots of restrictions on speech -- classic examples are the time/place/manner restrictions. The government can decide that rock concerts have to end at 7 p.m. in a public park for instance. You have a first amendment right to put an anti-war message on your shirt, but you don't have a first amendment right to use your bodies to stop cars from using a major bridge (which is what they're doing as I type this). And you obviously have no first amendment right to damage someone else's property.

On the other hand, the first amendment allows citizens to put enormous photos of bloody aborted fetuses all over their cars and to drive their cars up and down city streets all day long. I've been seeing a lot of that as a result of the RNC being in town too. :rolleyes:

[RobMoney$]

well, video footage (the proverbial camera doesn't lie) has convinced more than 50,000 others:


That number is no doubt influenced by her promoting it through her show and the internet, no?

[Bob]

On the other hand, the first amendment allows citizens to put enormous photos of bloody aborted fetuses all over their cars and to drive their cars up and down city streets all day long. I've been seeing a lot of that as a result of the RNC being in town too. :rolleyes:

i've never understood what that's supposed to do. are there really people out there that were pro-choice, but then saw the signs and were like "oh hang on, abortion is gross? the baby dies? oh i had no idea, fuck this, i'm pro-life now"

[saz]

That number is no doubt influenced by her promoting it through her show and the internet, no?

that number is a result of the story receiving widespread national media coverage.

[Documad]

yet i can differentiate between good cops and the macho fascist jocks on a power trip.
Me too! But I can't make that determination based solely on things people posted on the internet. :p

About an hour ago, I walked right next to the area where the current stand off is occurring and you'll be relieved to know that there wasn't a hint of macho fascist jocks on a power trip. Quite the opposite. :)

The media can certainly photograph what's happening. What's silly is that there are a handful of people who want to get arrested. That's why they're intentionally breaking laws in front of police officers. But reporters are getting in the way because there is so little to cover and there are far too many people trying to cover it.

[Documad]

i've never understood what that's supposed to do. are there really people out there that were pro-choice, but then saw the signs and were like "oh hang on, abortion is gross? the baby dies? oh i had no idea, fuck this, i'm pro-life now"

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking all day today.

I also saw some photos that were supposed to make me afraid of gay people, but the photos they were using featured attractive men kissing. That is sort of erotic.

And some of the pro-evangelical vans were using bad fonts on their signs and it made their vans look sort of satanic. They just confused me.

[DroppinScience]

I think that there is a misunderstanding on both sides as to what the first amendment allows. The government can put lots of restrictions on speech -- classic examples are the time/place/manner restrictions. The government can decide that rock concerts have to end at 7 p.m. in a public park for instance. You have a first amendment right to put an anti-war message on your shirt, but you don't have a first amendment right to use your bodies to stop cars from using a major bridge (which is what they're doing as I type this). And you obviously have no first amendment right to damage someone else's property.

On the other hand, the first amendment allows citizens to put enormous photos of bloody aborted fetuses all over their cars and to drive their cars up and down city streets all day long. I've been seeing a lot of that as a result of the RNC being in town too. :rolleyes:

Well, I was referring more to how people deal with dissenters in a society that is supposed to value free speech. Kind of like what The Clash was singing about when they said: "You have the right to free speech... as long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it."

Rob's comment of "the cops were asked to arrest a bunch of hippies with long hair" got me thinking of how people treat anti-war protestors in general. When they protest soldiers deployed to a far away nation, they essentially go: "These people are protecting your right to demonstrate! How dare you use this right!" I've actually heard people who say that people should just support the troops or shut up. But I thought the troops are there so that we're all allowed to speak out? There's a disconnect.

[yeahwho]

As far as first amendment rights, Matt Taibbi did an excellent job of covering the Free Speech zone @ the Democratic Convention.

From Bill Maher's HBO Real Time, August 29th "Who are these conventions really for (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wH9trnrbKM)?"

[RobMoney$]

i've never understood what that's supposed to do. are there really people out there that were pro-choice, but then saw the signs and were like "oh hang on, abortion is gross? the baby dies? oh i had no idea, fuck this, i'm pro-life now"


Try having those signs waved at you as you're trying to enter a woman's clinic to have an abortion. Then YES they can, and do make people run the other way because they can't go through with it.

[yeahwho]

Try having those signs waved at you as you're trying to enter a woman's clinic to have an abortion. Then YES they can, and do make people run the other way because they can't go through with it.

Bombs and murder threats are other tactics. Thank God they're not too fanatical :rolleyes:. It's not anybody's first choice to have this procedure done. Because someone does have to make this decision due to whatever their reason's may be, how come forgiveness and acceptance is never in play?

Is it a Christian duty to force their point of view over freedom of choice?

Honestly? Why doesn't Christianity try and prove their point without governing our choice? Do the majority of Christians think they must be part of my Government?

[DroppinScience]

I was listening to "Democracy Now!" on the radio on Monday and at the end of the program Amy Goodman said that the police dropped all the charges against her. Same goes with the other reporters they arrested.

Excellent! (y)

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2008/9/19/charges_against_dn_journalists_dropped_investigati on_needed

[saz]

nice, that's great news, thanks for sharing that droppin'. (y)

so much for all of the baseless, ignorant accusations and assumptions that amy was attempting to cause trouble and wanted to get arrested.

[Documad]

I don't know. If she shouldn't have been arrested in the first place, then the fact that she isn't going to be charged shouldn't make it all better. And just because the prosecutor doesn't want to prosecute doesn't mean it was wrong to arrest her. I don't care either way. I just think the logic is flawed on both counts.

I think it would have been politically insane for the prosecutor to prosecute journalists so it's no surprise.