Anyone care to enlighten me?

[travesty]

So I'm back. Two years ago at the mid-term elections I swore I would never come back to this board as they seemed to have disintegrated in to mush mouthed rhetoric and far left talking points. Out of curiosity and my love for the Beasties I dropped back in this evening. After reading a few of the more recent posts I must say I am glad to see much more reasonable, well thought out (and supported) debate. Congrats to everyone on making a more tolerable and mature arena for discussion.(y) I hope I didn't just read the few good posts!

Anyhow I am lost on this election. In general I lean to the right but the past eight years have been intolerable. I am appalled at what the Republican party has become and what they have done to the country and constitution I love so dearly. I do not think I can vote to give them another four years to try and "work it out", regardless of the candidate(s). However, I just can't wrap my head around this whole Obama juggernaut. What am I missing? Besides being a good orator I don't see any real substance or logical plans. I read through all of his "issues" on his website and I don't see a single one that sounds like it is a good idea.

I guess my question is this... why all the love? What am I missing? Which of Obama's platform issues is everyone most excited about and why? And please don't just say "change"....no matter who gets elected there is going to be change. To me that is a cop out. Explain what the change is going to be and how it is going to be implemented and I'll listen.

Cheers:D

[taquitos]

nope not me, i hate republicans.

[travesty]

nope not me, i hate republicans.

Brilliant. Just the kind of BS I was worried about. You should be proud!

[Pres Zount]

Shut up loser, what are you some kind of Nazi? :mad:

[travesty]

OK.. It seems as we have some real MENSA candidates on this board:rolleyes:

I guess a simple question is asking too much of all of you?

[funk63]

jkl;asdf

[kaiser soze]

pshhh!

MENSA?

We're NAMBLA!

[Echewta]

Gee Travesty, with your remarks, I'm surpised you aren't smart enough to already know the answer to your question.

If you come in with the insult guns, prepare to be insulted back.

Go read the rest of the threads in the GPD. Duh.

[travesty]

Gee Travesty, with your remarks, I'm surpised you aren't smart enough to already know the answer to your question.

If you come in with the insult guns, prepare to be insulted back.

Go read the rest of the threads in the GPD. Duh.


So who did I insult? I certainly did not mean to insult anyone, just a sarcastic remark.

I hate to believe that this board is still inhabited by the same blind faith democrats who dumbed it down in the past. No one can really tell me why they are voting for Obama? You just think it's cool I guess. Issues..schmissues...he's a great speaker. WTF?

All was looking for was for someone to stand up, rationally explain to me one platform issue of Obama's that is going to make them vote for him and why they think that his solution is the best one.

I'm not here looking for a fight or even a debate necessarily. I just want some insight as to why this guy is so popular, because from what I can tell most of his ideas are extremely biased, unfair and illogical.

[RobMoney$]

Well as a McCain supporter I'm looking foward to some legitimate responses to travesty's question here.

Dude, and quit threatening to leave already. I'm on an island of integrity in this place. Some right-leaning support would be a welcome addition.

[Documad]

Go read the rest of the threads in the GPD. Duh.
That's my answer. I've been posting for nearly a year about Obama's flaws and why I'm voting for him despite his flaws. Plus I will never vote for anyone over 70. Old guys scare the shit out of me.

[travesty]

That's my answer. I've been posting for nearly a year about Obama's flaws and why I'm voting for him despite his flaws. Plus I will never vote for anyone over 70. Old guys scare the shit out of me.

No doubt, they smell funny too.....like baby powder. If he doesn't make it to the white house I bet you it will be Cindy's turn to trade up really soon.

Well, I can tell that no one is particularly anxious to re-type a condensed version of all of thier past posts at the whim of the new guy so I guess just have to go-a-scrounging. Sigh.:(

[kaiser soze]

tough shit hombre

by the way, do you know what a trombe wall is?

without looking online

[yeahwho]

If you lean towards the right and you think Barack Obama is an empty suit I have an excellent idea for you, vote for John McCain because sure enough he's going to be the one to keep your USA just as you've left it!

Think about how much he loves his country, think about how much he'll fight to keep the republican revolution going. We're on the road to change, he's the candidate of change!!! He said change multiple times during his nominee acceptance speech.

Dude is an American Original. Where does he come up with this stuff?

To the wanting, McCain's words are empty (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/378035_robert06x.html)

After the Bush presidency, the American people want a gravy of details with their political steak.

McCain, smart and likable, with a golden chance to reach 40 million people watching at home -- far beyond the already converted in the St. Paul convention hall -- forgot even the steak.

His pitch was self-absorbed izzle -- that's sizzle without the "s" for substance.

There was no newfound sincerity but plenty of huffy sloganeering and lots of verbal contortion.

There was no checklist for change. At least Obama, who has said the election is "not about me, it's about you," called on dismantling "the ownership society" with tax cuts for 95 percent of working families.

McCain, though, did offer velvet potshots in his show of ineloquent glibness.

But you already know this is the sort of leadership that makes you comfortable. Don't you?

[GlobemalloSpike]

soze
umm, I know what a trombe wall is. I built one. why?
is this some kind of double entendre that I've missed?
or is this an extrandom actual question:confused:

[travesty]

But you already know this is the sort of leadership that makes you comfortable. Don't you?

NO.... like I said in the opening, if you had bothered to read the whole thing, it is going take a miracle for McCain to get my vote, especially with his bible thumping veep. I also do not think Barack is an "empty suit". I am just trying to get to the substance of why people seem to like his policies so much. To me they aren't adding up and that's why I am trying to get a little more clarification. You are right I do want the gravy with the steak, but what looks like lumpy brown liquid is not always gravy. I am just trying to make sure it's not diarrhea before I eat it. If you don't feel the need to check then bon apetit.

You all have selective hearing worse than my wife. All you read in my post was "right leaning" and everyone immediately went into attack mode. Nazi? Trombe Wall etc. Everyone take a fucking chill.

[kaiser soze]

soze
umm, I know what a trombe wall is. I built one. why?
is this some kind of double entendre that I've missed?
or is this an extrandom actual question:confused:

Great, could you please help me out with the schematics. My girlfriend and I are planning on building a house and am considering using passive heating including a trombe wall. I was wondering, do you think aluminum cans either spraypainted with black or layered over with black fabric would work? Also how about a double sided mirror which I believe would reflect the sunbeams back into the wall creating a "greenhouse" effect

how many of you are there anyways?

multiple aliases?

[GlobemalloSpike]

Okay Travesty, I sort of understand where you're coming from.
The talking heads really do paint Obama as nebulous. so...


Personally, I'll be voting for Obama for a few reasons:

1) I agree with the direction of Obama's tax plan. Some salient points:

-95% of working families, 81% of all households will see a tax cut.
-No one making less than $250,000 will see an increase.
-Although it's widely being touted by the right as "progressive".
His proposed increased rates on the wealthiest americans won't even equal the
rates paid under Reagan (until 1986).
And no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990's.
-And although McCain and Palin keep saying Obama will, "raise your taxes,"
who are they talking to? Obama's plan is actually a net tax cut.

There has been a war on the American middle class since Reagan.
It is time to dispel the myths of trickle-down/voodoo economics and the "free" market.
To quote Reagan, "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?"


2) I believe in Obama's commitment to renewable energy.

-Not just because of his promise to create an Apollo or Manhattan style project.
But because of his voting record, particularly strong on encouraging development in wind energy.
-He is a proponent of nuclear and recently, limited off-shore drilling,
two avenues I'm personally not big fans of, but not violently opposed to.
I just think they miss the mark and detract from the amazing opportunities renewable sources provide.
-McCain too has just recently began supporting off-shore drilling, but vehemently.
-McCain's lip service to development of renewable sources is just that.
He's got an abysmal voting record on both establishing standards for renewable production
and giving development incentives in production tax credits.


3) The obvious differences of the candidates
when it comes to handling the reins of the "Military-Industrial Complex".

-Frankly, McCain scares the crap out of me.
He is a military man, with a military mind, from a military family.
Now, The Right claims this is eminent qualification to be Commander in Chief.
Personally, I don't agree. I believe to job of the President is to be the Head of State,
and to resort to military force when his other tools,
(diplomacy, coalition and influence building, economic pressures, etc.) fail.

McCain is certainly a hero, and has shown himself to be an unbelievably loyal soldier.
He certainly would be qualified to be Rear-Admiral, maybe even full Admiral.
But, I personally don't think being a good soldier automatically qualifies one for President.
Especially during time of war.
Not to mention questions which have arisen about McCain's temperament and his belligerent statements about Iran, Russia, etc.

which kinda leads me into
4) I have respect for Obama's intelligence and character.

-president of the Harvard Law Review,
-graduated magna cum laude,
-taught constitutional law at University of Chicago,
-instead of going into the private sector worked for several philanthropic and non-profit organizations.
-while in the state senate championed ethics reform, health care reform,
-went after payday loan regulations and predatory lending,
-reformed death penalty procedures,
-consistently works in bi-partisan ways. as he did....
-while in the US senate... well here's a simple wiki on his US senate experience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#U.S._Senator.2C_2005.E2.80.93present)
-has said he wants to surround himself with people who disagree with him.
-always seems to me to approach issues in thoughtful, contemplative ways. explaining his views, considering opposing views.

5) I dunno where else to go... strong supporter of unions, senate foreign relations committee, believes America is a bottom-up not a top-down democracy, he's not my perfect candidate, supports FISA, voted to expand facility at Guantanamo ...

Does this help?

[GlobemalloSpike]

Soze,
I don't think cans are the way to go.
One of the main components of a trombe wall is that it's massive,
part of the idea being that it soaks up the sun's heat throughout the day, and releases it at night.
Although, this depends on your climate.
Here in the Western US high desert, where the night/day temperature swings are large, this mass is important.
You see many trombes made from adobe, brick (low fired), concrete.
Black paint is definitely the way to go, the blacker and flatter, the better.
I don't think you really need to worry about two way mirror type stuff,
because the black should catch most of the radiation,
but I guess that depends on your design.
Most trombes here don't go from floor to ceiling.
They're usually 3-5 ft high, a foot or so from the window,
and leave lots of space above so you can see out, to let in indirect light,
and of course to allow hot air to spill into the room.
Many have inlet "holes" at floor level to encourage falling cool air to be drawn off the floor.
I have heard that an insulating barrier under the foot is important if your on ground level,
kinda insulating the wall from geothermalsuck.

Most important is efficient windows, double or triple pane.
And a direct southern exposure!
One of the trickier propositions is determining how far the eave hangs over outside.
It's directly related to your latitude,
because you want the low winter sunlight to hit your wall as much as possible
and the wall to be shaded by the eave from high summer sunlight.

But heck if the Anasazis could figure it out.

and umm no, it's just me, no aliases save my truncated user name

[travesty]

Does this help?

Yes, yes, and yes, ...thank you.

[yeahwho]

Does this help?


GlobemalloSpike your on it like Blue Bonnet. That was excellent, your writing skills shame mine. Thank You!










I'll add some more McCain Speak via the NYTimes Bob Herbert (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/opinion/06herbert.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin),

Running From Reality

It stretches the mind almost to the breaking point to think of John McCain as an agent of substantive change. He once believed that Phil Gramm was the most qualified person in the United States to be president. And he now believes that Sarah Palin is the most qualified to be vice president.

That is not the fault of Mr. Gramm or Ms. Palin. But it sure tells us a lot about the judgment of John McCain.

[travesty]

Thanks GlobemalloSpike for the insight. I finally have some time to respond.



1) I agree with the direction of Obama's tax plan. Some salient points:

-95% of working families, 81% of all households will see a tax cut.
-No one making less than $250,000 will see an increase.
-Although it's widely being touted by the right as "progressive".
His proposed increased rates on the wealthiest americans won't even equal the
rates paid under Reagan (until 1986).
And no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990's.
-And although McCain and Palin keep saying Obama will, "raise your taxes,"
who are they talking to? Obama's plan is actually a net tax cut.

There has been a war on the American middle class since Reagan.
It is time to dispel the myths of trickle-down/voodoo economics and the "free" market.
To quote Reagan, "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?" [\QUOTE]

I disagree with his plan, but I also disagree with McCain's. I don't think either is rational or appropriate given the current economy, but I have used up my views on this in other threads.



2) I believe in Obama's commitment to renewable energy.

-Not just because of his promise to create an Apollo or Manhattan style project.
But because of his voting record, particularly strong on encouraging development in wind energy.
-He is a proponent of nuclear and recently, limited off-shore drilling,
two avenues I'm personally not big fans of, but not violently opposed to.
I just think they miss the mark and detract from the amazing opportunities renewable sources provide.
-McCain too has just recently began supporting off-shore drilling, but vehemently.
-McCain's lip service to development of renewable sources is just that.
He's got an abysmal voting record on both establishing standards for renewable production
and giving development incentives in production tax credits.

I think whoever is elected will be forced in to making significant renewable energy advances a priority and both seem fairly willing. I think the market, more than the President's opinion, will dictate what those options are .

3) The obvious differences of the candidates
when it comes to handling the reins of the "Military-Industrial Complex".

-Frankly, McCain scares the crap out of me.
He is a military man, with a military mind, from a military family.
Now, The Right claims this is eminent qualification to be Commander in Chief.
Personally, I don't agree. I believe to job of the President is to be the Head of State,
and to resort to military force when his other tools,
(diplomacy, coalition and influence building, economic pressures, etc.) fail.

McCain is certainly a hero, and has shown himself to be an unbelievably loyal soldier.
He certainly would be qualified to be Rear-Admiral, maybe even full Admiral.
But, I personally don't think being a good soldier automatically qualifies one for President.
Especially during time of war.
Not to mention questions which have arisen about McCain's temperament and his belligerent statements about Iran, Russia, etc.

I could not agree more. Actually This is probably my number one issue. The LAST thing we need right now is a warrior President.



4) I have respect for Obama's intelligence and character.

-president of the Harvard Law Review,
-graduated magna cum laude,
-taught constitutional law at University of Chicago,
-instead of going into the private sector worked for several philanthropic and non-profit organizations.
-while in the state senate championed ethics reform, health care reform,
-went after payday loan regulations and predatory lending,
-reformed death penalty procedures,
-consistently works in bi-partisan ways. as he did....
-while in the US senate... well here's a simple wiki on his US senate experience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#U.S._Senator.2C_2005.E2.80.93present)
-has said he wants to surround himself with people who disagree with him.
-always seems to me to approach issues in thoughtful, contemplative ways. explaining his views, considering opposing views.

Me not so much, He seems a little too aloof for me. Not picking Hillary as VP makes me think he is in this more for himself and his ego than anything else. I am trying to like him, I really am. I'm just not there yet and yes his "former" pastor still scares me.

Thanks again. I did learn a little, and that's all I'm looking for.