Canadian Federal Elections

[jackrock]

I say we give the NDP a shot with a minority government.

[ToucanSpam]

I say we give the NDP a shot with a minority government.

Get rid of Jack Leyton and I am all for it my orange brother.

[jackrock]

Quite frankly all of the party leaders are no good. Just keep the tories away from a majority, and another minority. The sad part is they might get one of those. (n)

[QueenAdrock]

There was a commercial with a young, fresh-faced Asian girl saying "I'm voting for the first time, and I'm voting for Steven Harper!"

I wonder how much they had to pay her.

[ToucanSpam]

There was a commercial with a young, fresh-faced Asian girl saying "I'm voting for the first time, and I'm voting for Steven Harper!"

I wonder how much they had to pay her.



OMG I saw that too. I laughed really hard because she seemed so enthusiastic about voting for a guy who is slowly destroying the things that make our country so great.

To be honest, I don't know what party to vote for because all three major ones are very unimpressive. I've had enough of the Tories destroying things, Dion is a weak leader, and Jack Leyton is kind of a dick. I know we don't vote for the individuals but...arrrrrgh.

[saz]

i'll be voting ndp as always. although layton is a colossal grand stander, who is incredibly self-righteous and very lame at times, but still he is an effective leader.

i'm petrified of a harper majority. people need to wake up and realize that the conservatives are not like the former progressive conservatives or red tories, but are rather nothing more than the reform party/canadian alliance: the angry redneck white man party, who want to privatize everything, reward corporations and screw everyone else.

hopefully pukeface harper will only get another minority, then the liberals can get rid of dion, and do what they should have done the last time around: elect michael ignatieff liberal leader.

[DroppinScience]

I think I'll go with NDP, even though yes, I am uninspired by ALL the party leaders of the major parties.

The election is going to be called pretty soon, yes?

In my riding of Edmonton-Strathcona, even though we have a Conservative incumbent MP (Rahim Jaffer), he came pretty close to losing to the NDP candidate. It was the closest race he's had for re-election. Which says something even for Alberta, where presently ALL the seats are held by Tories.

[ToucanSpam]

well guys, I'll take care in the East Coast, you guys cover the West and we should see some more orange and less blue in the cabinet.:cool:

[jackrock]

I think it's great Harper broke his own law to create this election. The law was made to prevent snap elections like this. If he can cheat away on laws, what can/should we think about campaign promises? The more and more the media calls attention to that, the better and better things will be.

Danny Williams (Premier of Nfld) says it best: Anybody But the Conservatives.


The election is going to be called pretty soon, yes?
Sunday.

[SobaViolence]

Green Party.

that is all.

[saz]

the greens lean towards the right and are anti-labour, pro-privatization. their previous leader was a former progressive conservative. and besides, outside of the environmental portfolio, they don't really have much of a platform.

[QueenAdrock]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/09/07/canada.elections.ap/index.html

Harper dissolves Parliament.

[ToucanSpam]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/09/07/canada.elections.ap/index.html

Harper dissolves Parliament.

lol oh noes.


With this little time I sincerely doubt any changes will happen. There's not even enough time for the Tories to campaign enough for those 28 or so seats to get the majority.

[yeahwho]

What is the tax on tobacco in Canada, I was going to buy a Cuban cigar that should be around $10, they wanted $28.50. Canadian. That's like 150% tax. I passed. Do you guys have any candidates with a less repressive tax package?

Or is it a sin tax of some sort?

I want cheap cigars when I travel to exotic British Columbia.

[saz]

no, tobacco products are heavily taxed, and rightfully so. however you can get better deals on weed.

[yeahwho]

no, tobacco products are heavily taxed, and rightfully so. however you can get better deals on weed.

So what does an ounce of BC Thunderfuck Bud (or whatever that stuff is called) cost now?

[jennyb]

... the angry redneck white man party, who want to privatize everything, reward corporations and screw everyone else...

So you guys have one of those too? Tell me more...

[ToucanSpam]

hopefully pukeface harper will only get another minority, then the liberals can get rid of dion, and do what they should have done the last time around: elect michael ignatieff liberal leader.

I missed this the first time. I completely agree, despite Iggy being out of the country for a long time. Dion is as weak as American beer and I'm tired of the stupid response by my liberal friends 'If not him than who?'. I-G-N-A-T-I-E-F-F. I spell it for them every time.

[QueenAdrock]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this new Parliamentary system. So far I've realized dissolving Parliament = telling everyone to go home and get ready for elections. They do so at a time that they think will be best for their party and it doesn't have to be the same fixed date. However, now they only have like, 40 days for attack ads and such. How can you fully smear the other side with such little time? Seems a little rushed to me.

Who's running, what are the stakes, and what is likely to happen?

[ToucanSpam]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this new Parliamentary system. So far I've realized dissolving Parliament = telling everyone to go home and get ready for elections. They do so at a time that they think will be best for their party and it doesn't have to be the same fixed date. However, now they only have like, 40 days for attack ads and such. How can you fully smear the other side with such little time? Seems a little rushed to me.

Who's running, what are the stakes, and what is likely to happen?

There's strategy behind the rush, but it is double-edged:


In the Blue corner: Harper is trying to secure a majority by calling a quick election. They only require 28 additional seats to remain a majority. That and he probably realizes every other party either has horrible leadership or isn't credible enough to make the same amount of noise in a short period of time.

http://www.conservative.ca/

Just take a look at how they are milking a single photograph of Dion shrugging. It is a little funny. Anyways there's no platforms up just yet but if you feel like it you can look at 2006 and compare it to what they have done.

their objective is to snatch up those seats and grab a majority without facing much opposition. The other parties, they believe, will either lose seats or exchange with one another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40th_Canadian_federal_election

There's a little table there that breaks down contested seats. A quick note--there are more incumbent MPs for the Tories who are NOT running again.


Personally, I believe the Tories will remain in a minority position and they will lose seats. Since this is such a fresh notice who knows what will happen. It'll all be over very quick, that's for sure.

[DroppinScience]

One thing about the parliamentary system I've read about: the ruling party tends to like to call elections when it feels like they can keep a good majority. So even though Harper was bringing in a fixed election reform, he bucked his own law because it was convenient for him.

[SobaViolence]

the greens lean towards the right and are anti-labour, pro-privatization. their previous leader was a former progressive conservative. and besides, outside of the environmental portfolio, they don't really have much of a platform.

you're kidding, right? I know Jim Harris used to be a PC conservative, but you're wrong about anti-labour, pro-privitization. and about their portfolio. and they are post-ideology.

www.greenparty.ca

[ToucanSpam]

lol Elizabeth May.

[DroppinScience]

and they are post-ideology.

www.greenparty.ca

Post-ideology? You'll have to explain this because otherwise that sounds pretty pretentious.

I think the Greens should be allowed in the debates. I won't vote for them, but we extra voices and alternatives never hurt democracy.

[ToucanSpam]

I don't understand why she was not allowed to debate, it is ridiculous. But then again out government system is ridiculous. Bring back Levesque!!!!

[saz]

i love our parliamentary system. it's very open and welcoming to a multiple party state or system, which we are very lucky to have. what is crummy is our first past-the-post electoral system. it is very old and outdated; we desperately need proportional representation. with pr, more greens and new democrats would get elected, and less reform/alliance and liberals would result.

i agree about may, she should be in the debates. i expected this crap from harper, but not from layton. i'm glad that i don't reside in layton's riding.



Greens slam debate exclusion

Broadcasters exclude Elizabeth May after three other leaders threaten to pull out

Tonda MacCharles
Ottawa Bureau

OTTAWA– The Green party will launch its legal battle as early as today to challenge the exclusion of leader Elizabeth May from the televised debates next month – a decision organizers made yesterday after three of the other four party leaders threatened to pull out.

Green party lawyer Peter Rosenthal said he would file a formal complaint with the CRTC, the body that regulates broadcasters. In the event of a negative decision, the party would seek leave to appeal it to the Federal Court.

May called her exclusion a sexist, anti-democratic decision by her political rivals and big TV broadcasters.

"Day 2 of the federal election campaign and democracy is taking a nose-dive," May said.

"This is anti-democratic, closed-door, back-room decision making by four national party leaders who are all men, and five television executives who are all men, to keep out the one woman leader of a federal political party and I don't think many Canadians will think that was fair," May told a news conference after learning of the decision via news release.

While the consortium of five national television broadcasters – CBC, Radio-Canada, TVA, Global and CTV – did not name the leaders opposed to May, an aide to Jack Layton admitted the NDP leader was one of those who had threatened to pull out. Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper had said earlier in the day that he was against May being included. Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion said he was in favour of May's inclusion but would have pulled out of the debates if Harper had withdrawn.

A spokesperson for the Bloc Québécois insisted leader Gilles Duceppe would have participated in the Oct. 1-2 debates whether or not May was included.

A written statement from the broadcasters said that "in the interest of Canadians, the consortium has determined that it is better to broadcast the debates with the four major party leaders, rather than not at all."

The decision means that Harper, Dion, Layton and Duceppe will go head-to-head in front of the cameras two weeks before the campaign's end.

Consortium spokesperson Jason MacDonald did not directly answer May's charge of sexism, but said in an email: "There are in fact two female broadcast executives as part of the consortium."

They were Esther Enkin of CBC and Joanne MacDonald of CTV.

A broadcast source said May "knows this because she has spoken to them," and said the networks decided to ignore a similar "cheap and inaccurate shot," last week by the Green party.

Bloc spokesperson Stéphane Gobeil, said the party had "explicitly confirmed that the BQ leader was going to participate in the debates, with or without the presence of the Green party."

Dion said it's "a no-brainer" that May should have been allowed to take part.

"It's about fairness. Elizabeth May should have been part of the debate. Period," he said at a rally in Montreal last night.

The Harper camp was saying little about the consortium's decision last night and refused to say whether it had laid down an ultimatum on the Prime Minister's participation.

"We've made our position clear in the past," said Kory Teneycke, Harper's director of communications. "It was a consortium decision about who and who not to invite," he told reporters.

Harper dismissed May earlier yesterday as a "Liberal candidate," and said her participation would be "unfair."

Layton said he opposed May being included in the debate because he believed she would be part of a Green party-Liberal tag team.

"There has been no new party elected to the House of Commons since the last election and one of the people who want to participate in the debate is supporting one of the others for prime minister," Layton said referring to the support May has shown for Dion.

Campaign spokesperson Brad Lavigne said Layton's position to the networks was he would pull out if May was in "because it would be patently unfair to have two people advocating for Mr. Dion to be prime minister in the debate. They could have one, but not both."

"It's got nothing to do with gender. Our party had two women leaders who participated in the debates. It's not an issue of gender. It's not an issue of policy. It's an issue that you can't have two Liberal spokespeople in the debate."

May said her party would pursue legal options, even an injunction to overturn the decision or to block the debate on public airwaves.

She dubbed "ridiculous" and "absurd" the arguments that she represented merely another Liberal voice at the debates.

None of the network executives would comment publicly, referring questions to MacDonald, the communications consultant hired to handle media inquiries.

"The response we got from three of those four parties was that `If the Green party participates in the debate, then we're out,' " MacDonald said in an interview. "You can't hold a debate if nobody's there."

MacDonald said the broadcasters made a "journalistic judgment" that is backed by precedent.

The courts and the CRTC have held in the past that the broadcasters have the right to decide who gets to be on the stage.

The CRTC has found there must be "equitable" access to the airwaves "to preserve democracy," the Greens' lawyer Rosenthal said.

In the 2006 campaign, the broadcasters barred the Green party's former leader, saying the party did not have an elected member of Parliament. Before Parliament dissolved Sunday, May's party brought Independent MP Blair Wilson into its ranks. He is running for the party in this election.

"Now, they are excluding the Green party because three other parties vetoed it. They've delegated their editorial authority to three of the five main political parties. It's quite astonishing," said Rosenthal.

The French-language debate will be held Wednesday, Oct. 1, at the National Arts Centre in Ottawa from 8 to 10 p.m., with moderator-journalist Stéphane Bureau. The English-language debate will air the next evening from the same venue, but an hour later, from 9 to 11 p.m. with TVO host Steve Paikin moderating the discussion.

[jackrock]

Layton opens coalition doors. (http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/503547)

[MC Moot]

No one is addressing the mission in Afghanistan...I'm miffed about that...I see no clear mandate to govern by any of the party's...I'm tired of going to the polls every 2 fuck'n years...Dione/Layton...jeezus...the Liberals should have gone with Ken Dryden,they will next time,guaranteed...I guess anything to bump Harper is fair play...but come on this is sad...I think this time I will vote my conscience,which is Green/NDP...as opposed to trying a strategic Liberal vote...and that's just because theres no Natural Law Party around...we need to get back to the serious issues of an overwhelmed health care system,our role on the international stage,our intent in Afghanistan,arctic soverignty and the mastery of yogic flying...(y)

P.S: By the time the poles close here the election has numerically been pre-determind by the East anyway's...that's frustrating...seriously frustrating...

[fucktopgirl]

There was a commercial with a young, fresh-faced Asian girl saying "I'm voting for the first time, and I'm voting for Steven Harper!"

I wonder how much they had to pay her.

My brother in law did a commercial for the liberal, one day of shooting=1000$

He sold his soul, he don,t have an opinion really, just want to survive. So imagine..

I don't know for who i will vote, for me same shit but anything else then Harper party.

[saz]

No one is addressing the mission in Afghanistan...I'm miffed about that....

the ndp are calling for an immediate withdrawl from combat operations, and i'm pretty sure they want to get back to peacekeeping and rebuilding in afghanistan. harper blew the surplus with war spending and paying for tax cuts, and we're likely going to be ending up running a deficit.

i just hope that harper is held to another minority. a liberal-ndp coalition government would be incredible, but i'm not sure the two parties combined will end up with more seats than the reform/canadian alliance/conservatives/angry redneck white man party.

[ToucanSpam]

Mark my words: Harper will not get the majority he is looking for. Otherwise, I have no idea how this is going to go down. Probably another minority government for the Tories, which means another fucking election in 18 months.

[saz]

yep.

and hopefully useless dion will step down and ignatieff will be elected liberal leader.

i hear too that gerard kennedy is probably going to lose to peggy nash in his toronto riding. good. if it wasn't for kennedy, dion wouldn't be the current liberal leader. this is all kennedy's fault, he not only screwed his party, but also the entire country by cutting that deal with dion at the last liberal leadership convention and getting his delegates to support dion.

[MC Moot]

the ndp are calling for an immediate withdrawl from combat operations, and i'm pretty sure they want to get back to peacekeeping and rebuilding in afghanistan.

i just hope that harper is held to another minority. a liberal-ndp coalition government would be incredible, but i'm not sure the two parties combined will end up with more seats than the reform/canadian alliance/conservatives/angry redneck white man party.

Well...see that's part of the hitch with a coalition between party's...the NDP stance on immediate troop withdrawel is negated by the Liberals already commiting until 2011...the transition from an offensive mission to one of a purely humanitarian or even peace keeping role is impossible with the Taliban's current disposition to our forces...I doubt they'll offer any quarter even if we change our stripes,so to speak...it's a clusterfuck

[ToucanSpam]

Ignatieff should have been elected leader a year and a half ago. Stephane Dion will go down in history as the worst Liberal leader of all time. He will be the only one not to make it to the big show.

[MC Moot]

Help me, Justin Trudeau; you're the Liberal party's only future hope...

[saz]

Well...see that's part of the hitch with a coalition between party's...the NDP stance on immediate troop withdrawel is negated by the Liberals already commiting until 2011...the transition from an offensive mission to one of a purely humanitarian or even peace keeping role is impossible with the Taliban's current disposition to our forces...I doubt they'll offer any quarter even if we change our stripes,so to speak...it's a clusterfuck

yep. there's also a conflict between the ndp and the liberals regarding the carbon tax. there has been a liberal-ndp coalition at the federal level before. regardless, if the liberals and the ndp combined end up with more seats than the conservatives, and if they decide to form a coalition, both sides are going to have to be very pragmatic, learn how to compromise and work together.

[DroppinScience]

Uhhh... is Ignatieff really so great? Didn't he write when he was a professor at Harvard how he backed the Iraq War and defended the idea of empire (be it British or American). That's not something I'm terribly comfortable with. :eek:

[saz]

he admitted he made a bad mistake about iraq. it's really old news. i personally like that in politicians, when they can admit when they are wrong. anyways, he also speaks six languages, is an accomplished academic and author, and is an outstanding orator. i bet he'll be canada's obamarama. i won't be voting liberal, but we'd be much better off with him than pukeface harper.

[ToucanSpam]

The Rights Revolution is one of the best Canadian political texts written. That being said, I don't really agree with everything he says. It is still interesting the questions he poses about the rights of certain groups infringing on other groups.


Anyways, Ignatieff is a better speaker than Dion. He is more popular among Canadians than Dion. He has a significantly larger resume in terms of understanding international relations, speaks several different languages, and despite being out of the country for an extended period of time, is well educated on Canada's current political climate.

Sazi is right about the Iraq debacle. A large portion of politicians supported the Iraq war in the beginning, too, to be fair.

If Ignatieff was running right now as leader of the Liberal party, I wouldn't hesitate to vote for him over a retard like Jack Leyton and definitely Stephen Harper.

Instead we all have to pray to Science that there isn't a Tory majority.

[DroppinScience]

he admitted he made a bad mistake about iraq. it's really old news. i personally like that in politicians, when they can admit when they are wrong. anyways, he also speaks six languages, is an accomplished academic and author, and is an outstanding orator. i bet he'll be canada's obamarama. i won't be voting liberal, but we'd be much better off with him than pukeface harper.

Fair enough for him taking back what he said about Iraq. But in his original defense, he was saying the idea of empire or imperialism isn't such a bad thing. Did he take that back too? That, to me, is more troubling than initially backing the Iraq War.

[ToucanSpam]

www.anyonebutharper.ca


Just in case you didn't know about it.


Anyone want to vote swap?

[MC Moot]

I think I'll tune in tonight for a bit just to see Harper butcher the french language...there is nothing quite like a Good Old Alberta boy attempting french...:D

P.S: The Mercer report was quite amusing last night...22 mins had some good cracks as well...(y)

[jackrock]

P.S: The Mercer report was quite amusing last night...22 mins had some good cracks as well...(y)
"Seems like Stephen Harper could use a writer... too bad a writer is a kind of artist."

George Stromboulopoulous had some good cracks at him too.

French debate tonight, you can watch it live at cbc.ca

[saz]

jack layton and elizabeth may kicked serious ass tonight. layton in particular had some really good zingers. dion did what he had to do and came across well. he explained the carbon tax green shift very adequately and countered harper's outrageous lies and bullshit regarding it. gilles duceppe also had his moments: in particular he nailed harper on his ardent support of the illegal invasion of iraq in 2003.

ol' pukeface harper meanwhile looked awful. he did defend himself alright on more than a few occassions, but he really was in well over his head and knew there was only so much of his bullshit he could defend. the fact that harper doesn't even have a platform is a crippling blow, which the opposition wisely took advantage of and exploited. even dion made him look weak.

[ToucanSpam]

May did not do as well as you think she did. A few times she made some comments that were not relevant to the issues at hand. Jack Leyton is too much of a douche for me to acknowledge his success.


The real winners out of this were Canadian citizens. Stephen Harper was pummeled in a 4 vs. 1 all out Juno Beach like assault and it was beautiful. If I had to pick a single person who performed the best, it would have to be Gilles Duceppe. I may not like the idea of separatism but Quebec has its shit in gear better than any country or state in North America right now.

[saz]

may and layton were fantastic. i'm not a green supporter at all but she had pukeface getting very squeamish more than once. she also leant her support to dion on the green shift carbon tax. you could also really tell that harper clearly underestimated may and you could see that he was regretting that decision.

take away seperatism and gilles duceppe and the bloc are another ndp or social democratic party. they are a very reliable ally when taking on the reform/alliance/conservatives.

[ToucanSpam]

may and layton were fantastic. i'm not a green supporter at all but she had pukeface getting very squeamish more than once. she also leant her support to dion on the green shift carbon tax. you could also really tell that harper clearly underestimated may and you could see that he was regretting that decision.

take away seperatism and gilles duceppe and the bloc are another ndp or social democratic party. they are a very reliable ally when taking on the reform/alliance/conservatives.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on your first point.


Duceppe makes for interesting company, to say the least. He's excellent as an ally to the Liberals/NDP, but it's also strange to see him come to the table with his separatist hat on.

On a side note, Duceppe is referred to as Prime Minister of Quebec in Quebec.:D

[MC Moot]

I'm ashamed to say I found myself jumping back and forth to Biden Vs Palin...however I found May to be really quite impressive...it was massive dog pile on Harper...

[MC Moot]

I encourage everyone to peruse this site before you cast your ballot on Tuesday...note the conservatives have no strategy at all… (http://www.campaign2000.ca/):mad:

[ToucanSpam]

Relax people. The Conservatives do not have the support to gain their majority. It'll be a Tory minority or a Liberal minority, most likely the former. In that case, within 18 months there will be another vote of no confidence and by then Dion will have resigned.

Either way given the divide in Canada right now we are looking at a long line of minority governments.

[DroppinScience]

I encourage everyone to peruse this site before you cast your ballot on Tuesday...note the conservatives have no strategy at all… (http://www.campaign2000.ca/):mad:

Uh, this is from the 2000 Canadian election. How does that help us for 2008? :confused:

[ToucanSpam]

It doesn't. We move on to a more important link:


www.anyonebutharper.ca


I'm gonna keep posting that because there's not much else to say anymore.:p

[DroppinScience]

Yeah, this election has been pretty low-energy and boring. It couldn't have come at a worse time too -- just weeks before the US election, a particularly historic and theatric campaign. I've also been saying Harper called this election before the US election because he didn't want the final outcome in November (whether there'd be an Obama or McCain in the White House) to have any impact on whether or not he'd keep his job. I honestly think if Obama were to win, it would have meant his days were numbered. In other words, he needs the outcome this Tuesday to be independent of the US outcome.

I've tried to actually discuss the election with people and these are folks who normally do care about this sort of thing, but there's a strong sense of "meh" and then focus shifts to the US election. I'm also a bit pissed off with my brother and mom regarding this election. They're completely undecided on who to vote for. They're not voting Conservative, but are reluctant to vote NDP (who have the best shot in ousting our Conservative MP), Liberal, or Green. I mean WTF how indecisive can you be?

[ToucanSpam]

Yeah, this election has been pretty low-energy and boring. It couldn't have come at a worse time too -- just weeks before the US election, a particularly historic and theatric campaign. I've also been saying Harper called this election before the US election because he didn't want the final outcome in November (whether there'd be an Obama or McCain in the White House) to have any impact on whether or not he'd keep his job. I honestly think if Obama were to win, it would have meant his days were numbered. In other words, he needs the outcome this Tuesday to be independent of the US outcome.

I've tried to actually discuss the election with people and these are folks who normally do care about this sort of thing, but there's a strong sense of "meh" and then focus shifts to the US election. I'm also a bit pissed off with my brother and mom regarding this election. They're completely undecided on who to vote for. They're not voting Conservative, but are reluctant to vote NDP (who have the best shot in ousting our Conservative MP), Liberal, or Green. I mean WTF how indecisive can you be?


It is sort of difficult to pick amongst those parties at this stage because either way a huge number of people are voting with the intention of ousting the Tories from power. Personally, I am an NDP guy but if they didn't have an excellent shot at beating whatever Tory candidate, I would vote for the party who did have the best shot. That's one thing I like about Canada, we are not staunch in our party choices, there can be wiggle room.

Luckily for me Voting NDP or Liberal doesn't matter because Cape Breton has been solidly Liberal for a long time federally. It's also looking more and more like we are returning to out NDP/third party roots, which is extremely sexy.:cool:

[MC Moot]

Uh, this is from the 2000 Canadian election. How does that help us for 2008? :confused:

Look a little closer,the mandate was created with the goal of 2000' as an end date...but the articles are current...

check it: http://www.campaign2000.ca/FullPartyGridElection008.pdf

[DroppinScience]

All right, today is Election Day in Canada. I trust all the Canadian BBMBers have cast their ballots (or will very soon, polls are closing in two hours in Alberta).

I voted for Linda Duncan (NDP candidate) for Edmonton-Strathcona. I really do hope she unseats our do-nothing MP Rahim Jaffer and that I'm doing my part in blocking a Harper majority government. I do have to admit I wouldn't have minded voting for the Green party, if only for the reason that I sent e-mails to all the candidates in my riding regarding their stance on library, copyright, and Internet-related issues (which is my field of study). Jane Thrall of the Greens was the only one kind enough to e-mail back (with a personal, well-thought out reply), which I appreciated a lot.

I admit voting strategically played a role in my decision (in the very real possibility we'd unseat a Conservative MP), but at the same time Duncan and the NDP are strong enough candidates anyway so it's all good.

[saz]

elizabeth may strikes me as a genuniely down to earth, honest, and the very least partisan individual. she also comes across as very rational and practical. but in reality, the greens are nothing more than the new progressive conservatives: socially liberal, economically conservative. the progressive conservatives are a colossal improvement over the current reform/canadian alliance/redneck dominated conservative party. however, what really turns me off of the greens is that they are for all sorts of privatization, and for-profit community groups. may herself served in mulroney's federal government. again, they're a huge improvement over harper's gang of intolerant hicks, as the greens are really enlightened on a lot of issues, but with a lot of the green candidates i can see dollar bill signs in their eyes.

i voted ndp as always. hopefully pukeface will only get a very small minority.

[QueenAdrock]

I'm predicting minority government...let's hope, at least.

[ToucanSpam]

Well, I was right about pretty much everything. Ignatieff will become leader and in 18 months we'll be back at it.

[DroppinScience]

OH YEAH! That one little spot on the electoral map of Alberta where there's an NDPer. That's my riding, biatch! We totally kicked that lazy do-nothing Rahim Jaffer to the curb! It's a long time coming, but we made it.

Oh yeah, pity about the rest of the election. At least it's still a Harper minority.

[saz]

the proverbial writing on the wall for the last year and a half has been that harper would win another minority, dion would exit and the liberals would likely get it right the second time and elect ignatieff leader. i think that's a no-brainer and that he will be the next prime minister. for starters, he's actually bilingual, has vast world experience, a high degree of education, and is an excellent orator. way to go gerard kennedy. by making that deal with dion at the previous liberal leadership convention, he put himself first and his party last, and therefore the country has to live with harper. i hope the liberals won't forget it. i know i won't. and figures kennedy beat peggy nash, it would've been fitting if he lost. it's disappointing that harper got a larger minority, but really every party gained except the liberals and everyone else picked their bones, albeit quebec where they pulled ahead of the conservatives in vote share. anyways at least it's another minority. it looks like they'll never break through in the gta, vancouver, quebec, montreal, and the maritimes.

that's so awesome that linda duncan beat rahim jaffer, i can't believe it. jaffer was such an obnoxious, arrogant douche. i remember that in '04 he had some campaign or party flack pose as him for a radio interview he couldn't meet. i'm thrilled the ndp broke through in the hick heartland of texas north.

[MC Moot]

Meet the new boss,same as the old boss...we'll do it again in 2 years time...:rolleyes:

[ToucanSpam]

OH YEAH! That one little spot on the electoral map of Alberta where there's an NDPer. That's my riding, biatch! We totally kicked that lazy do-nothing Rahim Jaffer to the curb! It's a long time coming, but we made it.

Oh yeah, pity about the rest of the election. At least it's still a Harper minority.

Fuck. Yes.

The NDP were quite impressive this time around. Thankfully, the Bloq did their part by holding their ground in Quebec. Overall, I was glad we didn't get a Harper majority. The Liberals lost a lot of seats to the Tories, including the one I am in right now. However, my home riding did it's part by staying red.

Now, Ignatieff will rise from nowhere and in 18 months shit will get very real for Harper.

[DroppinScience]

that's so awesome that linda duncan beat rahim jaffer, i can't believe it. jaffer was such an obnoxious, arrogant douche. i remember that in '04 he had some campaign or party flack pose as him for a radio interview he couldn't meet. i'm thrilled the ndp broke through in the hick heartland of texas north.

I think Jaffer did that in 2002 or something. The election was close in 2006, but he didn't spend his time preparing for the next one. Linda Duncan from Day 1 re-grouped and ran an impressive campaign while Jaffer slept. And boy it sure paid off. (y)

[saz]

from wiki:

In 2001 Matthew Johnston, an aide to Jaffer, impersonated him during a radio interview that Jaffer was himself unable to attend. Jaffer subsequently apologized in the House of Commons and was suspended from his caucus position for several months.

how the hell did the ndp pull this off in alberta? i take it there are more liberal, ndp and green voters in urban areas of the province?

[DroppinScience]

from wiki:

In 2001 Matthew Johnston, an aide to Jaffer, impersonated him during a radio interview that Jaffer was himself unable to attend. Jaffer subsequently apologized in the House of Commons and was suspended from his caucus position for several months.

how the hell did the ndp pull this off in alberta? i take it there are more liberal, ndp and green voters in urban areas of the province?

Well... yeah. I know most Canadians outside Alberta think we're all a bunch of hicks... and, well, you'd only be partially right. Edmonton is most certainly a lot more open-minded and liberal than much of the rest of the province. You'll also take note that Edmonton-Sherwood Park was a VERY neck and neck race between the Conservative and Independent candidates (the Independent is a small-c conservative, but still cool that he gave Uppal a big run for his money). There was also hope that a Liberal could take back Edmonton-Centre (Anne McClellan's old riding), but it wasn't to be this time around. Edmonton-East was a disappointment for many left-leaning Edmontonians because a popular NDPer (and former MLA) Ray Martin was running there.

But back to why Linda Duncan did it in Edmonton-Strathcona. In previous elections, the Liberals, NDP, and Greens would kind of cancel each other out and Jaffer cruised to victory. The riding is home to the University of Alberta, which benefits from a lot of liberal-minded university kids. In addition, trendy Whyte Avenue is here too. So again, that's a lot of artsy, activist, bohemiam types populating the area. If you compare the results from 2006 to 2008, you'll find that we all rallied behind Linda Duncan this time (the Liberal candidate drastically lost votes, so there must have been lots of Liberals switching it up in the effort to block a Harper majority) and left the other candidates in the dust.

I had my doubts that this time would come (and it almost looked like Jaffer was going to win, heck he gave a victory speech but then he had to STOP because the remaining polls coming in were giving strong gains to Duncan), but people must have been really fed up with Jaffer.

[saz]

thanks for that. i hate referencing wiki but it seems that in this case the blurb was correct.

i think we're long overdue to get rid of the 19th century first-past-the-post system and adopt proportional representation:


Fair Vote Canada
October 15, 2008

Electoral dysfunction, yet again Greens deserved more than 20 seats - voting system also punished New Democrats, western Liberals and urban Conservatives

Once again, Canada’s antiquated first-past-the-post system wasted millions of votes, distorted results, severely punished large blocks of voters, exaggerated regional differences, created an unrepresentative Parliament and contributed to a record low voter turnout.

The chief victims of the October 14 federal election were:

Green Party: 940,000 voters supporting the Green Party sent no one to Parliament, setting a new record for the most votes cast for any party that
gained no parliamentary representation. By comparison, 813,000 Conservative voters in Alberta alone were able to elect 27 MPs.

Prairie Liberals and New Democrats: In the prairie provinces, Conservatives received roughly twice the vote of the Liberals and NDP, but took seven times
as many seats.

Urban Conservatives: Similar to the last election, a quarter-million Conservative voters in Toronto elected no one and neither did Conservative
voters in Montreal.

New Democrats: The NDP attracted 1.1 million more votes than the Bloc, but the voting system gave the Bloc 50 seats, the NDP 37.

Had the votes on October 14 been cast under a fair and proportional voting system, Fair Vote Canada projected that the seats allocation would have been approximately as follows:

Conservatives - 38% of the popular vote: 117 seats (not 143)
Liberals - 26% of the popular vote: 81 seats (not 76)
NDP - 18% of the popular vote: 57 seats (not 37)
Bloc - 10% of the popular vote: 28 seats (not 50)
Greens - 7% of the popular vote: 23 seats (not 0)

link (http://www.fairvote.ca/files/news%20release%20-%20october%2015%202008%20-%20election%20results.pdf)

[DroppinScience]

i think we're long overdue to get rid of the 19th century first-past-the-post system and adopt proportional representation:


Yeah, there's lots of voices who want the first-past-the-post system to go and to put in proportional representation. Sounds good on paper, but I do know some political science-y minded folks that proportional representation also has its drawbacks (in a kind of "careful what you wish for" warning). So I'm the wrong person to know which system is the most ideal.

[ToucanSpam]

I'm all for PR, but it can be a really risky endeavor. That being said, it would be an improvement to what we have now. Our whole system stinks...


...I don't feel like getting into it but I'll sum up my complaints with general statements:

1. abolish the monarchy
2. abolish the governor general and lieutenant governors, etc.
3. abolish the senate as is, replace with cabinet elected officials
4. representation by population
5. abolish the war measures act
6. limit the power of the Prime Minister (the PM of Canada has more power than most of Earth's national leaders...too much.)


I'm too lazy to elaborate, so go read for yourselves. Or don't, maybe you're lazy like me.:D