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DroppinScience
09-05-2008, 02:34 PM
I know how some McCain supporters on here (i.e. the two of you) like to say they have no clue what Obama's plans are can read it here for the record. All the key issues are here.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/obama.promises/index.html

Obama spells out plans for change

DENVER, Colorado (CNN) -- Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama called his acceptance speech on Thursday "the American Promise." It included a list of promises for change that he said, "We need right now."
Sen. Barack Obama addresses the Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado.


Here is a look at what Obama said he would do, if elected, about a variety of topics:

Taxes

Obama said he would:

• Cut taxes "for 95 percent of all working families."

• "Eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses" and start-ups "that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow."

• Advocate "a tax code that doesn't reward the lobbyists who wrote it, but the American workers and small businesses who deserve it."

• "Stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas" and "start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America."

Energy

Obama said he would:

• Set a goal that "in 10 years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East."

• "Tap natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology and find ways to safely harness nuclear power."

• "Help our auto companies retool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here in America." Video Watch Obama's acceptance speech »

• Make it easier for Americans to afford U.S.-built, fuel-efficient cars.

• Have the federal government "invest $150 billion over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy -- wind power and solar power and the next generation of biofuels." Doing so, he said, would "lead to new industries and 5 million new jobs that pay well and can't ever be outsourced."

Education

Obama said he would:

• "Finally meet our moral obligation to provide every child a world-class education."

• Find more money for early childhood education and recruit teachers with better pay while also pushing "higher standards and more accountability."

• Make sure young Americans can afford college if they serve their community or country. Photo See the highlights of the Democratic convention's last day »

Health care

Obama said he would:

• "Finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single American."

• Lower premiums for those who have health care and let those without coverage "get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves."

• Make sure insurance companies "stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most."

Labor law

Obama said he would:

• Provide paid sick days and "better family leave" for workers.

• Close the pay gap between the sexes.

Bankruptcy law

Obama said he would:

• Change bankruptcy law "so that your pensions are protected ahead of CEO bonuses."

Federal spending

Obama said he would:

• Pay for "every dime" of his plans' costs "by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow."

• Cut federal programs that don't work and improve those that do while reducing their costs.

National defense

Obama said he would:

• "End this war in Iraq responsibly and finish the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan."

• "Only send our troops into harm's way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home."

• "Rebuild our military to meet future conflicts."

Foreign relations

Obama said he would:

• "Restore our moral standing" in the world.

• Provide "tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and curb Russian aggression."

• "Build new partnerships to defeat the threats of the 21st century: terrorism and nuclear proliferation, poverty and genocide, climate change and disease."

Abortion

Obama said he would:

• Work with people on all sides of the issue to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Gun control

Obama said he would:

• Uphold the Second Amendment but also keep "AK-47s out of the hands of criminals."

Gay rights

Obama said he would:

• Help ensure that gays and lesbians have the right "to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination."

Illegal immigration

Obama said he would:
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• Pursue policies that don't result in separated families.

• Discourage companies from undercutting American wages by hiring illegal workers.

And for the sake of fairness, here are McCain's promises.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/05/mccain.highlights/index.html

McCain offers his prescription for U.S.

ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) -- Sen. John McCain gave his acceptance speech as the Republican presidential nominee Thursday night. Here is a look at what McCain said he would do, if elected, about a variety of topics:
Sen. John McCain says he'll reduce government spending and get rid of failed programs.


Taxes

McCain said he would:

• Keep taxes low and cut them where he could.

• Double the child tax exemption from $3,500 to $7,000.

• Cut the business tax rate to help American companies compete and keep jobs from moving overseas.

Foreign trade

McCain said he would:

• Open new markets to American goods and services.

• Prepare workers to compete in the world economy.

Unemployment assistance

McCain said he would:

• Help workers who've lost a job that won't come back and find a new one that won't go away.

• Use community colleges to help train people for new opportunities in their communities.

• Retrain workers in industries that have been hard hit and cover the pay difference during retraining. Video Watch the highlights of the GOP convention »

Economy

McCain said he would:

• Create millions of new jobs, "jobs that will be there when your children enter the work force."

Energy

McCain said he would have the United States:

• Produce more energy at home.

• Drill new wells offshore.

• Build more nuclear power plants.

• Develop clean coal technology.

• Increase the use of wind, tide, solar and natural gas.

• Encourage the development and use of flex fuel, hybrid and electric automobiles. Photo See McCain take center stage as his party's nominee »

Education

McCain said he would:

• Make schools answer to parents and students.

Health care

McCain said he would:

• Make it easier for more Americans to find and keep good health care insurance.

Federal spending

McCain said he would:

• Reduce government spending and get rid of failed programs to "let you keep more of your own money to save, spend and invest as you see fit."

Foreign relations

McCain said:

• A serious blow has been dealt to al Qaeda, but the terror network has not been defeated and will strike again if able.
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• Iran is the chief state sponsor of terrorism and on the path to acquiring nuclear weapons.

• Russia's leaders have rejected democratic ideals, invaded a small, democratic neighbor, Georgia, to gain more control over the world's oil supply, intimidated other neighbors and have ambitions of reassembling the Russian empire.

Read through and tell me stuff you like and/or don't like about the two candidates' platform.

Dorothy Wood
09-05-2008, 02:59 PM
well, the promises seem pretty positive overall, but so vague (mccain's moreso) that it's really hard to tell what exactly they want to do.

of course I lean more towards Obama, but I don't really think McCain's that bad of a guy. I just think he's under the control and advisement of people who value power and money and quick fixes over what's best in the long run for americans and the world.

NoFenders
09-05-2008, 03:59 PM
So that's all Obama will do re:taxes?? That's it?? Where's his small business plan??

:cool:

NoFenders
09-05-2008, 04:01 PM
What's really funny is all this "free" shit we're promissed from Obama. Who pays for all that free shit?? Wait, forget it. We do.

:cool:

saz
09-05-2008, 04:20 PM
i think mccain has serious rage issues. he is also incredibly condescending and likes to speak down to people, which got him in very hot water with other republicans. he lunged at and attacked fellow republican trent franks. it was that bad, it had to be broken up. mccain almost fought another fellow republican, congressman rick renzi. i also thought how it was incredibly lame that he voted against recognizing a national holiday as martin luther king jr. day. oh yeah, he also called his wife a "cunt", when she was merely teasing him about his thinning hair.

anyways, i think there's more to obama's platform than merely "taxes" and "free shit".

and, there's more than democratic and republican platforms as well:

nader (http://www.votenader.org/issues/)

greens (http://www.gp.org/platform.shtml)

libertarians (http://www.lp.org/platform)

Burnout18
09-05-2008, 04:39 PM
oh yeah, he also called his wife a "cunt", when she was merely teasing him about his thinning hair.



a youtube video or audio clip of that would be awesome.

travesty
09-05-2008, 11:24 PM
Obama--
• Pay for "every dime" of his plans' costs "by closing corporate loopholes

Wow! Bold statement but seems highly unlikely....

According to the Congressional Budget Office corporate income tax paid to the IRS for fiscal 2006 was $354B (2.7% of GDP).

However, there was $1.044B (8.0% of GDP) collected from individual income tax and the $1,009B (7.7% of GDP) in social insurance, excise taxes and "others".

Even if you were able to DOUBLE the amount collected from corporations the total would befar less than the amount collected from individual income tax and certainly not enough to satisfy the programs he has planned all on its own. Closing some loopholes ain't going to be enough partner.

Besides who do yout think actually pays the additional taxes when corporations are required to pay more? He might as well just grab his balls lump it all into an across the board increase in income taxes because ultimately isn't that what it really is?

Bob
09-06-2008, 12:32 AM
Obama--
• Pay for "every dime" of his plans' costs "by closing corporate loopholes

Wow! Bold statement but seems highly unlikely....

According to the Congressional Budget Office corporate income tax paid to the IRS for fiscal 2006 was $354B (2.7% of GDP).

However, there was $1.044B (8.0% of GDP) collected from individual income tax and the $1,009B (7.7% of GDP) in social insurance, excise taxes and "others".

Even if you were able to DOUBLE the amount collected from corporations the total would befar less than the amount collected from individual income tax and certainly not enough to satisfy the programs he has planned all on its own. Closing some loopholes ain't going to be enough partner.

Besides who do yout think actually pays the additional taxes when corporations are required to pay more? He might as well just grab his balls lump it all into an across the board increase in income taxes because ultimately isn't that what it really is?

plus, i pity the fool who tries to "close the loopholes." that's a great sounding promise, but how do you follow through, even if you honestly earnestly plan to? enact a law that says "corporations can't exploit loopholes?" corporations pay large amounts of money to lawyers and accountants whose job it is to do nothing but look for loopholes in the tax code to avoid liability. even if the IRS/state tax authorities catch them, they pay large amounts of money to incredibly clever people whose job it is to explain to judges why it isn't a loophole, or why the IRS/state isn't constitutionally allowed to close the loophole. and if they lose on that, they just move on and look for another loophole

the tax code and the cases and regulations and rulings and directives and constitutional issues relating to it are so horrendously complicated that i don't understand how someone could "close the loopholes" even if they dedicated their life to it (because there are a bazillion high-priced lawyers and accountants out there who are paid high prices to dedicate their lives to finding and exploiting them)

i almost don't even want that to work because i'm contemplating a career around it

Dorothy Wood
09-06-2008, 03:34 AM
yeah, but bob, obama was a lawyer. and he taught law. he probably knows all that stuff. he was the president of the harvard law review. I'm guessing he knows a lot of smart law stuff. holy crap am I drunk.

Documad
09-06-2008, 03:47 AM
Obama's economic policy doesn't add up, but McCain's is worse. He is going to pay for everything by cutting off pork. Pork constitutes about 1% of the federal budget. You would think that after 30 years in DC he would know that. (And his running mate was a recipient of pork.)

All candidate lie to the american public about this stuff because we're fucking morons. When Mondale tried to tell the truth about the economy, he suffered the biggest defeat in history. We want to be lied to. We are begging for it.

yeahwho
09-06-2008, 04:56 AM
'this administration and the Republican Congress have presided over the biggest, most reckless deterioration of America's finances in history."

With the above fact in mind, I'm amazed anybody would trust the republicans to clean their catbox let alone run the country. What sort of brainpower lives with this fact and continues to support that party?

Peter Peterson's excellent "Running on Empty (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/12/books/12cald.html?ex=1220846400&en=86b6090b1ecac65b&ei=5070)" pointed out our lot perfectly four years ago,

Mr. Peterson has laid out his level-headed argument at book length several times now. Why has it continued to be ignored? Maybe Americans have tacitly given up on the idea that large, New Deal-style entitlement programs can work over the long term - whether because such programs inevitably get corrupted by politics and bureaucracy, or because even a well-managed welfare state is a competitive albatross in an age of globalization. Mr. Peterson himself notes that nine-tenths of baby boomers think ''government has made financial promises to [their] generation that it will not be able to keep." The guarantee of a secure retirement is already being rescinded in the minds of the citizenry, if not yet in the statute books.

Mr. Peterson also entertains a darker possibility: that ''our national leaders are providing the American people with precisely what they want." Debt, he notes, is particularly alluring in periods of partisan intransigence. If the two sides cannot compromise on priorities, each can take what it wants while dumping the bill on future generations. Americans used to understand this temptation and flee it. Thomas Jefferson warned: ''To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude."

travesty
09-06-2008, 09:08 AM
Great article yeahwho. I like the final paragraph best.....

"So it may be that some terrible change has come over the national psychology that admits to only two diagnoses. Either the complexity of government has outrun the capacity of a democratic public to understand it, or that public, understanding well the options Jefferson put before it, has chosen servitude."

Genius

saz
09-06-2008, 03:04 PM
(y)

'this administration and the Republican Congress have presided over the biggest, most reckless deterioration of America's finances in history."

With the above fact in mind, I'm amazed anybody would trust the republicans to clean their catbox let alone run the country. What sort of brainpower lives with this fact and continues to support that party?