Palin rewards rapists and molestors with her anti-abortion stance

[kaiser soze]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-on-abortion-id-oppo_n_122924.html

In November 2006, then gubernatorial candidate Sarah Palin declared that she would not support an abortion for her own daughter even if she had been raped.

Granting exceptions only if the mother's life was in danger, Palin said that when it came to her daughter, "I would choose life."

At the time, her daughter was 14 years old. Moreover, Alaska's rape rate was an abysmal 2.2 times above the national average and 25 percent of all rapes resulted in unwanted pregnancies. But Palin's position was palatable within the state's largely Republican political circles.

"I believe that no matter what mistakes we make as a society," she wrote, "we cannot condone ending an innocent's life."

Rape is not a mistake...it is a horrific crime! We are not our beloved ally Saudi Arabia who blame, condemn, or even kill the victims for being raped.

So she doesn't support abortion unless it endangers life, but YET still supports cutting funding for teenage/poor mothers who are usually the victims of rape, further endangering them.

palin is a pain, she will destroy the lives of millions of women if she makes it in office. Why would a woman vote for her?

[travesty]

Maybe Sarah Palin will turn out to be the fairy princess that takes away your penis. If none of us have penises she could keep her views on raped abortion and never have to actually face it in real life.:eek:

[ToucanSpam]

She is ridiculous. Wouldn't it be funny to find out that she's been scraped more times than a fisherman's knuckle?


family guy is on....stfu!!!!!!!!

[Bob]

i agree that it's a shitty policy but how does it "reward rapists and molestors" exactly?

[kaiser soze]

By forcing the victim to give birth to a child conceived by a criminal

[Bob]

but how does the criminal gain something from this

i mean i don't pretend to know how rapists think, but if i were a rapist, i wouldn't particularly care about what happens to my victim afterwards. if i cared about her i wouldn't have raped her. fuck, if i knew she had a baby, what little of what's human that's left of me might actually even feel a little guilty about it (probably not though).

i think you're maybe being slightly dramatic here is what i'm saying

[kaiser soze]

The psychological damage from the pregnancy would give the rapist/molester continued power over the victim every time they have to look at the child

Removing a woman's right to choose would add a new dimension to her struggle to recover from the rape/molestation, thus rewarding the rapist with spreading their unwanted progeny.

[Bob]

The psychological damage from the pregnancy would give the rapist/molester continued power over the victim every time they have to look at the child

Removing a woman's right to choose would add a new dimension to her struggle to recover from the rape/molestation, thus rewarding the rapist with spreading their unwanted progeny.

i'm still not seeing how rapists gain anything from this. are there rapists out there whose goal in life is to go around and deliver their seed all over the country, like some kind of deranged johnny appleseed? if there are, then yeah, i see your point but i really didn't think that rapists were really in it for reproduction?

i mean i know rape is a power/control thing but this is a reach dude

[kaiser soze]

I doubt you ever will

[Bob]

i guess i just don't know much about being a rapist

[ToucanSpam]

Bah never mind.

[ms.peachy]

i'm still not seeing how rapists gain anything from this. are there rapists out there whose goal in life is to go around and deliver their seed all over the country, like some kind of deranged johnny appleseed? if there are, then yeah, i see your point but i really didn't think that rapists were really in it for reproduction?

i mean i know rape is a power/control thing but this is a reach dude

I don't think it is a reach at all. It's not about reproduction, as you say, but about power. I think that there are definitely men out there who would derive no small amount of satisfaction from knowing that if a woman they raped became pregnant, she could be forced to continue the pregnancy. Not because they want to have a baby, but because they want to make her suffer, and suffer, and suffer.

[Documad]

Alaska's rape rate was an abysmal 2.2 times above the national average and 25 percent of all rapes resulted in unwanted pregnancies.

I find it difficult to believe that 25 percent of rapes result in pregnancy. I find it easier to believe that women who find themselves pregnant as a result or a rape are more likely to report the rape OR that women who find themselves pregnant but who don't want to be pregnant say that they were raped in hopes of getting an abortion. Roe in Roe v. Wade lied about how she got pregnant but she still didn't get her abortion.

I also agree with Bob. I don't see it as rewarding the rapist. In fact, the rapist should be required to pay child support for 18 years.

[Burnout18]

By forcing the victim to give birth to a child conceived by a criminal

that is no reward my friend

[ms.peachy]

I think perhaps the use of the word 'reward' in this instance is poor, and I can see why it is causing disagreement. It's not the word I wold have chosen. I do believe though that the pleasure some - some - rapists get in subjugating their victims could potentially be enhanced if they know that, in the event of pregnancy, the victim would have to endure a full pregnancy or risk an illegal and possibly dangerous termination. For others obviously it will make no difference, surely, but there are some quite evil people out there.

[kaiser soze]

that is no reward my friend

you took it out of context my friend

I never said it was a reward for the victim

regardless if people see it as a reward to the criminals or not palin still doesn't give a fuck about the victims feelings

I bet if she were Saudi Arabian she wouldn't hesitate to stone the victims to death

[taquitos]

^my family comes from saudi arabia and i find that very offensive

[kaiser soze]

I find it offensive as well that many females including rape victims have been convicted, abused, or executed in Saudi Arabia

http://thedoctori.newsvine.com/_news/2007/12/02/1136809-saudi-judge-gang-rape-victim-should-be-executed

http://womenagainstshariah.blogspot.com/2008/08/honor-killing-comes-to-america.html

http://www.vibrani.com/honorkillings.htm

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/000835.html

http://intercessors.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/saudi-arabia-honor-killing/

[funk63]

Does that stuff really suprise you? Women are like slaves there.

[Bob]

regardless if people see it as a reward to the criminals or not palin still doesn't give a fuck about the victims feelings


that's probably what i would have focused the thread on if i were making it

[Lex Diamonds]

We are not our beloved ally Saudi Arabia who blame, condemn, or even kill the victims for being raped.
Nope, you're Americans, who kill, rape and torture Saudi Arabians for being Saudi Arabians.

Don't act like you give a shit, you guys get raped by the government on a daily basis.

[QueenAdrock]

You do realize that 90% of this forum is composed of a bunch of liberals who believe in human rights, right? Majority of us don't agree with what our government is doing in Gitmo and other places and support the right to a fair trial for those arrested. Yeahwho's saying that we're above places like Saudi Arabia when it comes to rape and punishing the victims, and he's also said he's against the way that America handles 'suspected terrorists,' against torture, and supported the Supreme Court decision to allow them the basic right of a fair trial. He's been consistent in his support for universal human rights.

[Lex Diamonds]

In this thread alone he has displayed completely contradicting ideologies. He seems so concerned about single rape victims (which is less than a quarter of 1% of the population) yet attacks the Middle East, where the American government are killing thousands of innocents daily for cold-hearted economic gain. He believes Saudi Arabians are evil sexists who keep women chained up and stone rape victims to death. I mean, what the fuck? Where have you got this twisted world view from?

Oh, that's right, the government. I know the majority of Americans are mentally retarded but do you really swallow all that bullshit the Bush administration is feeding you? Everyone else in the world thinks you are complete morons. I'm being serious, why do you think most non-Americans stay out of this section of the boards? It's depressing how misinformed you people are, considering your influence on the world.

[QueenAdrock]

yet attacks the Middle East, where the American government are killing thousands of innocents daily for cold-hearted economic gain.

Great Britain was there for quite a while, too. Yet I'm smart enough to realize that what Tony Blair and your government agreed to do did not apply to the population as a whole. A lot of people living in GB didn't agree with the war, much like majority of the Americans don't agree with the war now. Generalizing what the American government does to "all Americans" is pretty short-sighted.

And if you want to know where he gets his ideas of Saudi Arabia from, there are quite a few links he posted earlier. Not one of them is a .gov.

If you were a more frequent follower of this forum, you'd see he's against the war, as well as against the extremist Saudi Arabians, and against the way they treat their rape victims. Just because he's chosen to single out the Saudi Arabians in this thread doesn't mean he hasn't railed against the US government and the unjust way they have been treating others.

[Lex Diamonds]

I know they're not government websites, that's kinda the point. When did any "independent" American ever have a problem with Saudi Arabia before 2001? This shit has been happening there for thousands of years. How about you focus on the shit that's happening in your own country like school shootings, serial killers and ubiquitous casual racism? The recent decline of American society easily eclipses anything in Middle Eastern history. As liberal and well-intentioned as you people may be, you are all extremely narrow-minded and controlled by your government to a greater extent than you think.

[QueenAdrock]

Padster, I see where you're coming from, but please trust me when I say that we've been discussing all of that in other threads. We've been talking about the mortgage crisis in America, universal health coverage and denial of people under our system, minimum wage needing to be raised so mothers don't have to take two part-timers and neglect their children just to make ends meet, welfare, everything. Majority of our threads here are about how fucked up the American government is and how much worse it became under Bush. However, you will see threads that talk about places like Darfur, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, etc. too. We're not the only fucked up country on the planet, a lot of people have it a lot worse and it shouldn't go ignored, either.

It's kind of hard for Americans, because if we just stick to the issues that are close to our home, we're called uneducated and uncaring about the rest of the world. But if we talk about the rest of the world, then we're told that we should focus on how fucked up things are back home. It's a no-win situation.

[travesty]

As liberal and well-intentioned as you people may be, you are all extremely narrow-minded and controlled by your government to a greater extent than you think.

Psshw. Then open our eyes, oh enlightened one.
Another self righteous stoner from the UK.... this oughta be good.

[Lex Diamonds]

There's clearly nothing I say that will make you realise how ignorant you people look. Calling me a "self-righteous stoner from the UK" for criticising your countrymen's prejudiced views is pretty ironic, though. The worrying thing is, you probably didn't mean it as a joke.

[QueenAdrock]

It depends. Quite a few Americans realize how we're perceived in the rest of the world and are quite embarrassed that it got to be so bad. Then there are the others who say "Fuck 'em, they ain't American so who the fuck cares what they think?"

The second group is far more vocal than the first, though.

[Lex Diamonds]

Whatever, I can't even be bothered to get into an argument about it, it just really depresses me the state of the world and your country's part in it. It's like there's nothing anyone can do to stop you, the country is almost entirely run/populated by selfish ignoramuses. I mean that to the point where I'm seriously considering not having children. The outlook for America (whoever wins this election), and consequently the rest of the world, is very bleak. We're being dragged down with you into the increased violent crime, paranoia and economic downturn.

But hey, you guys go back to discussing who should get what healthcare and whether Obama is a racist.

[travesty]

I might be wrong it seems that British troops are always right there backing us up whenever we step on our dicks and vice versa. Don't pretend that your hands aren't just as dirty. I know it's really easy and convenient to blame the US for all of the worlds problems (and some rightfully so) but you must know that most what we do around the world is with good intention. Now, not much has worked out real well for us lately and we are trying to rectify that from within and we are relying on our political system to put some changes in place. No country is perfect and most make some mistakes along the way (how did India, Ireland, Suez or Aden work out for Y'all? Not so great huh?). Anyhow, be glad we actually have a two term limit on our leader.

And by the way there was a reason our ancestors left other countries over the years...namely THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE LIKE YOU in the first place. Expecting us to act just like Brits is like expecting your husband to change when you marry him...you'll just get frustrated and end up picking up his socks anyway.

[kaiser soze]

What's prejudiced with telling the truth?

It is known that female honor killing occurs in Saudi Arabia (as well as other nations)

And for a person to tell a victim of rape or molestation that they can not have the right to decide what to do with their body, it is punishing the victim even further.

Palin said it herself that she would oppose abortion if her own daughter was raped proviong she'll chuck anyone under the bus

[Lex Diamonds]

I know it's really easy and convenient to blame the US for all of the worlds problems (and some rightfully so) but you must know that most what we do around the world is with good intention. Now, not much has worked out real well for us lately and we are trying to rectify that from within and we are relying on our political system to put some changes in place.
Now that is naive. There were no good intentions with the bombing of Afghanistan or the invasion of Iraq. That shit is straight up tyranny. I don't care what the government told you people to make you accept it, but believe me they were not thinking of the greater good of Planet Earth, they were thinking about oil and money. I mean, what is the world coming to when the government encourages racism against an entire religion? Republicans are publishing propaganda saying that Obama is part-Muslim as if it's the worst thing ever, and the bad thing is, people are actually responding to it. Supposedly forward thinking liberal people are saying "no way is he a Muslim, nice try though" as if it actually matters. That shit is fucked up.

I'm not saying Britain is perfect but our reasons for (limited) presence in Iraq and so on are purely political. If we want to keep our position in the world we have no choice but to follow your government into this shit. Ever notice how Blair and Bush seemed like best buddies with all the photocalls and shit from 2003-2006? It's because they were "in it together". We pretend we care about Middle Eastern insurgency so that if we ever get into a war you will have our backs. It's immoral I know but it's better than the delusion of helping the world that you people have.

[RobMoney$]

I remember when I was 19 and thought I had all the answers.
Good Times.

[Lex Diamonds]

By no means do I think I have all the answers, I'm trying to give you people a non-American's view on the subject.

Who would have thought you would dismiss an outsider? :rolleyes:

[Bob]

By no means do I think I have all the answers, I'm trying to give you people a non-American's view on the subject.


sorry, which subject? you were kind of all over the place

[ms.peachy]

sorry, which subject? you were kind of all over the place

Not to speak for Padster - I wouldn't be so presumptuous - but I gather that what he is attempting to express is a general frustration with the (both real and percieved) myopia of the American electorate, common to many (MANY) people outside the US.

To wit: here is a comment piece from today's Guardian newspaper:

The feeling is familiar. I had it four years ago and four years before that: a sinking feeling in the stomach. It's a kind of physical pessimism which says: "It's happening again. The Democrats are about to lose an election they should win - and it could not matter more."

In my head, I'm not as anxious for Barack Obama's chances as I was for John Kerry's in 2004 or Al Gore's in 2000. He is a better candidate than both put together, and all the empirical evidence says this year favours Democrats more than any since 1976. But still, I can't shake off the gloom.

Look at yesterday's opinion polls, which have John McCain either in a dead heat with Obama or narrowly ahead. Given the well-documented tendency of African-American candidates to perform better in polls than in elections - thanks to people who say they will vote for a black man but don't - this suggests Obama is now trailing badly. More troubling was the ABC News-Washington Post survey which found McCain ahead among white women by 53% to 41%. Two weeks ago, Obama had a 15% lead among women. There is only one explanation for that turnaround, and it was not McCain's tranquilliser of a convention speech: Obama's lead has been crushed by the Palin bounce.

So you can understand my pessimism. But it's now combined with a rising frustration. I watch as the Democrats stumble, uncertain how to take on Sarah Palin. Fight too hard, and the Republican machine, echoed by the ditto-heads in the conservative commentariat on talk radio and cable TV, will brand Democrats sexist, elitist snobs, patronising a small-town woman. Do nothing, and Palin's rise will continue unchecked, her novelty making even Obama look stale, her star power energising and motivating the Republican base.

So somehow Palin slips out of reach, no revelation - no matter how jaw-dropping or career-ending were it applied to a normal candidate - doing sufficient damage to slow her apparent march to power, dragging the charisma-deprived McCain behind her.

We know one of Palin's first acts as mayor of tiny Wasilla, Alaska was to ask the librarian the procedure for banning books. Oh, but that was a "rhetorical" question, says the McCain-Palin campaign. We know Palin is not telling the truth when she says she was against the notorious $400m "Bridge to Nowhere" project in Alaska - in fact, she campaigned for it - but she keeps repeating the claim anyway. She denounces the dipping of snouts in the Washington trough - but hired costly lobbyists to make sure Alaska got a bigger helping of federal dollars than any other state.

She claims to be a fiscal conservative, but left Wasilla saddled with debts it had never had before. She even seems to have claimed "per diem" allowances - taxpayers' money meant for out-of-town travel - when she was staying in her own house.

Yet somehow none of this is yet leaving a dent. The result is that a politician who conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan calls a "Christianist" - seeking to politicise Christianity the way Islamists politicise Islam - could soon be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Remember, this is a woman who once addressed a church congregation, saying of her work as governor - transport, policing and education - "really all of that stuff doesn't do any good if the people of Alaska's heart isn't right with God".

If Sarah Palin defies the conventional wisdom that says elections are determined by the top of the ticket, and somehow wins this for McCain, what will be the reaction? Yes, blue-state America will go into mourning once again, feeling estranged in its own country. A generation of young Americans - who back Obama in big numbers - will turn cynical, concluding that politics doesn't work after all. And, most depressing, many African-Americans will decide that if even Barack Obama - with all his conspicuous gifts - could not win, then no black man can ever be elected president.

But what of the rest of the world? This is the reaction I fear most. For Obama has stirred an excitement around the globe unmatched by any American politician in living memory. Polling in Germany, France, Britain and Russia shows that Obama would win by whopping majorities, with the pattern repeated in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and Latin America. If November 4 were a global ballot, Obama would win it handsomely. If the free world could choose its leader, it would be Barack Obama.

The crowd of 200,000 that rallied to hear him in Berlin in July did so not only because of his charisma, but also because they know he, like the majority of the world's population, opposed the Iraq war. McCain supported it, peddling the lie that Saddam was linked to 9/11. Non-Americans sense that Obama will not ride roughshod over the international system but will treat alliances and global institutions seriously: McCain wants to bypass the United Nations in favour of a US-friendly League of Democracies. McCain might talk a good game on climate change, but a repeated floor chant at the Republican convention was "Drill, baby, drill!", as if the solution to global warming were not a radical rethink of the US's entire energy system but more offshore oil rigs.

If Americans choose McCain, they will be turning their back on the rest of the world, choosing to show us four more years of the Bush-Cheney finger. And I predict a deeply unpleasant shift.

Until now, anti-Americanism has been exaggerated and much misunderstood: outside a leftist hardcore, it has mostly been anti-Bushism, opposition to this specific administration. But if McCain wins in November, that might well change. Suddenly Europeans and others will conclude that their dispute is with not only one ruling clique, but Americans themselves. For it will have been the American people, not the politicians, who will have passed up a once-in-a-generation chance for a fresh start - a fresh start the world is yearning for.

And the manner of that decision will matter, too. If it is deemed to have been about race - that Obama was rejected because of his colour - the world's verdict will be harsh. In that circumstance, Slate's Jacob Weisberg wrote recently, international opinion would conclude that "the United States had its day, but in the end couldn't put its own self-interest ahead of its crazy irrationality over race".

Even if it's not ethnic prejudice, but some other aspect of the culture wars, that proves decisive, the point still holds. For America to make a decision as grave as this one - while the planet boils and with the US fighting two wars - on the trivial basis that a hockey mom is likable and seems down to earth, would be to convey a lack of seriousness, a fleeing from reality, that does indeed suggest a nation in, to quote Weisberg, "historical decline". Let's not forget, McCain's campaign manager boasts that this election is "not about the issues."

Of course I know that even to mention Obama's support around the world is to hurt him. Incredibly, that large Berlin crowd damaged Obama at home, branding him the "candidate of Europe" and making him seem less of a patriotic American. But what does that say about today's America, that the world's esteem is now unwanted? If Americans reject Obama, they will be sending the clearest possible message to the rest of us - and, make no mistake, we shall hear it.

I think that's largely what Padster was getting at. I am sure he will let me know if I am wrong.

[travesty]

I'm not saying Britain is perfect but our reasons for (limited) presence in Iraq and so on are purely political. If we want to keep our position in the world we have no choice but to follow your government into this shit. Ever notice how Blair and Bush seemed like best buddies with all the photocalls and shit from 2003-2006? It's because they were "in it together". We pretend we care about Middle Eastern insurgency so that if we ever get into a war you will have our backs.

So what you're saying is that you are our little bitch, nee our puppet? That oughta make you feel good. Maybe you ought to worry a little more about your own government's direction of your country if that's the case.

[Randetica]

paddy should come here more often to shit down the usatic high horse



im anti abortions but in this case it's silly to be against them cause it really wasnt the women's fault (unless she dressed up like a total ho, lol)

[Kid Presentable]

I think perhaps the use of the word 'reward' in this instance is poor, and I can see why it is causing disagreement. It's not the word I wold have chosen. I do believe though that the pleasure some - some - rapists get in subjugating their victims could potentially be enhanced if they know that, in the event of pregnancy, the victim would have to endure a full pregnancy or risk an illegal and possibly dangerous termination. For others obviously it will make no difference, surely, but there are some quite evil people out there.

You and Kaiser have parenthood in common, and it's what I think is causing this reaching that's going on. Or I'm reaching. But, it seems like his reach has been compounded by yours.

[Kid Presentable]

Whatever, I can't even be bothered to get into an argument about it, it just really depresses me the state of the world and your country's part in it. It's like there's nothing anyone can do to stop you, the country is almost entirely run/populated by selfish ignoramuses. I mean that to the point where I'm seriously considering not having children. The outlook for America (whoever wins this election), and consequently the rest of the world, is very bleak. We're being dragged down with you into the increased violent crime, paranoia and economic downturn.

But hey, you guys go back to discussing who should get what healthcare and whether Obama is a racist.

Dude, if there's ever been a product of Americanisation, it's you. England is so fucking Americanized it's hilarious, especially for how loudly they protest. And yeah, our part of the world is too, but you'll never hear me deny that. You need a tourist's perspective man. Go live somewhere else for a while and make your mind up then.

[ms.peachy]

You and Kaiser have parenthood in common, and it's what I think is causing this reaching that's going on. Or I'm reaching. But, it seems like his reach has been compounded by yours.

I'm not sure what either of us being parents has to do with the control exerted by rapists, but hey if that explanation works for you in some weird way, then, um... okay. I can tell you that my views on this subject were much the same long before I had a kid, though.

[kaiser soze]

Not all rape victims are single, how do you think a husband or boyfriend would feel if a fucking piece of shit impregnated his girlfriend or wife and the gov't said tough shit, this progeny wins.

It is purely evil on top of evil

Also....Let's say this element of reproductive control becomes a reality....who can prove rapists won't try to impregnate women?

[taquitos]

I find it offensive as well that many females including rape victims have been convicted, abused, or executed in Saudi Arabia

ahh i was just fuckin with ya. i hate saudi arabians too.

[Bob]

Not all rape victims are single, how do you think a husband or boyfriend would feel if a fucking piece of shit impregnated his girlfriend or wife and the gov't said tough shit, this progeny wins.

It is purely evil on top of evil

Also....Let's say this element of reproductive control becomes a reality....who can prove rapists won't try to impregnate women?

i don't think anyone's trying to defend this policy, i'm just saying the focus is more properly placed on how bad it is for the victims rather than how good it is for the criminals

[funk63]

Islam is a fucked up religion. Sorry.

[QueenAdrock]

No more so than the rest of the religions out there. It's what people do with the religions that makes it "fucked up."

[Lex Diamonds]

Dude, if there's ever been a product of Americanisation, it's you. England is so fucking Americanized it's hilarious, especially for how loudly they protest. And yeah, our part of the world is too, but you'll never hear me deny that. You need a tourist's perspective man. Go live somewhere else for a while and make your mind up then.
Don't be so patronising all the time, it makes you look like a real dick. I have spent a reasonable chunk of my life elsewhere and I know England is Americanised to shit. I live here, remember? I mean, I'm pretty sure I know better than you the difference between English and American heritage, seeing as I'm English and all. I hate the fact that so many people here dress like American people, eat only American food and watch only American TV. And obviously I do all that shit from time to time, it's pretty much impossible not to. That doesn't stop me from thinking it's bullshit, and the majority of my countrymen from hating Americans.

And yeah peachy, that article sums it up reasonably well, although I don't agree 100%. I read the Guardian, although I have found them to be more and more off the mark the older I grow. I don't know whether it's my cynicism or their dumbing down, or a mixture of the two. Probably the latter.

[Lex Diamonds]

So what you're saying is that you are our little bitch, nee our puppet? That oughta make you feel good. Maybe you ought to worry a little more about your own government's direction of your country if that's the case.
Believe me, I do worry. I never said I felt good about your country's dangerous amount of power and influence over mine, dumbass.

[DroppinScience]

Don't be so patronising all the time, it makes you look like a real dick. I have spent a reasonable chunk of my life elsewhere and I know England is Americanised to shit, I live here, remember? I think I know better than you the difference between English and American heritage. I hate the fact that so many people here dress like American people, eat only American food and watch only American TV. And obviously I do all that shit from time to time, it's pretty much impossible not to. That doesn't stop me from thinking it's bullshit, and the majority of my countrymen from hating Americans.


"Hating" Americans? Can you honestly tell the difference between the government, the corporations, and everyday Americans? If I were to listen to you, I'd think every American is a Bushie.

You don't always have to walk around with a chip on your shoulder, y'know.

[Bob]

if i was foreign i'd probably hate us too actually

[Lex Diamonds]

Bob understands. Bob always understands. I don't hate Bob.

[Kid Presentable]

Don't be so patronising all the time, it makes you look like a real dick. I have spent a reasonable chunk of my life elsewhere and I know England is Americanised to shit. I live here, remember? I mean, I'm pretty sure I know better than you the difference between English and American heritage, seeing as I'm English and all. I hate the fact that so many people here dress like American people, eat only American food and watch only American TV. And obviously I do all that shit from time to time, it's pretty much impossible not to. That doesn't stop me from thinking it's bullshit, and the majority of my countrymen from hating Americans.

And yeah peachy, that article sums it up reasonably well, although I don't agree 100%. I read the Guardian, although I have found them to be more and more off the mark the older I grow. I don't know whether it's my cynicism or their dumbing down, or a mixture of the two. Probably the latter.

Hey man, I'm really sorry you feel as if you're being spoken down to; maybe it would be less of an issue if you lost that chip on your shoulder?

All I'm saying is that going on a school exchange program or on a holiday with Mum is nothing like going to live in a place, pay taxes, and actually be amongst the issues and how they affect people. It's one thing to make huge general sweeping statements about America, it's quite another to make an informed argument that isn't re-hashed and completely moot. You might want to go live and work there for a bit; I would if was going to tell them how to run their own affairs.

Interesting too that you rebuke my post by claiming that you would know more about the UK than me because you're from there, yet your posts here have been pretty much telling America what's what. Which is it?

[RobMoney$]

I have spent a reasonable chunk of my life elsewhere and I know England is Africanised to shit. I live here, remember? I mean, I'm pretty sure I know better than you the difference between English and African heritage, seeing as I'm English and all. I hate the fact that so many people here dress like African people, eat only African food and watch only African TV. And obviously I do all that shit from time to time, it's pretty much impossible not to. That doesn't stop me from thinking it's bullshit, and the majority of my countrymen from hating Africans.

You see what I did there?
Just trying to make a point.

But I agree with you that Kid P is a massive throbbing penis.

[rirv]

You see what I did there?
Just trying to make a point.

But I agree with you that Kid P is a massive throbbing penis.

You'd have a valid point if African nations tried to dominate the world through imperialist expansion and cultural hegemony. You'd also have a point if you didn't generalise an entire continent. Africa isn't a country. A Moroccan is as different from a South African and a Ghanian as different from a Zimbabwean as you are from a Mongolian goat herd.

[100% ILL]

It's obvious that this whole mess could be worked out if there were a way to cling to guns and religion and be liberal and openminded.

[Kid Presentable]

But I agree with you that Kid P is a massive throbbing penis.

Must be why you can't let me go.

Serious, Pad. You're probably reading something in my posts that's not there. If I'm being patronising then I'm sorry. Just exchanging ideas.

[RobMoney$]

You'd have a valid point if African nations tried to dominate the world through imperialist expansion and cultural hegemony. You'd also have a point if you didn't generalise an entire continent. Africa isn't a country. A Moroccan is as different from a South African and a Ghanian as different from a Zimbabwean as you are from a Mongolian goat herd.


Yeah, you're right. I guess it's OK to generalize all Americans, but not any other country. We're all completely the same.
Our President is a failure, therefore it's cool to generalize our entire country.

[jennyb]

It's obvious that this whole mess could be worked out if there were a way to cling to guns and religion and be liberal and openminded.

hahahahah, omg I almost spit out my Starbucks on my New York Times! (y) *considers gun and bible purchase*

I think you're onto something there...

[Bob]

Must be why you can't let me go.


oh shit

[rirv]

Yeah, you're right. I guess it's OK to generalize all Americans, but not any other country. We're all completely the same.
Our President is a failure, therefore it's cool to generalize our entire country.

If your president is a failure and he has been elected by your country, then is he not representative of that country?

[RobMoney$]

If your president is a failure and he has been elected by your country, then is he not representative of that country?


Ahh, you are aware that he didn't really win the election in 2000, right?
and secondly I didn't vote for the guy, I voted against him, twice. So no, I don't see how he's representative of me personally in any way, and that's why I take offense to being thrown into an "American" catagory that I'm not apart of.

[100% ILL]

Here are a few statistics I found about abortion due to incest/rape.
I included some information about the number of rapes in the United States. It is not mandatory to report abortions however, so the number is probably higher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Number_of_abortions_ in_United_States


[edit] Statistics
Because reporting of abortions is not mandatory, statistics are of varying reliability. The Centers For Disease Control (CDC) regularly compiles these statistics.


[edit] Number of abortions in United States
According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), there were 854,122 legal induced abortions in the US in 2003.




http://www.abortiontv.com/Lies%20&%20Myths/AnswersToProChoice.htm#What%20about%20a%20woman%20 who%20is%20pregnant

What about a woman who is pregnant due to rape or incest?

Less than 1% of all abortions are due to rape or incest. Furthermore, since conception doesn’t occur immediately after intercourse, pregnancy can be prevented in nearly all rape cases by medical treatments including the morning after pill (MAP).

Nearly all the women interviewed in a recent survey said they regretted aborting the babies conceived via rape or incest. Of those giving an opinion, more than 90 percent said they would discourage other victims of sexual violence from having an abortion (see report)

Finally, if you found out today that your biological father had raped your mother, would you feel you no longer had a right to live?



It seems like common sense. Sexual violence is a nightmare. Dragging it out for nine months of pregnancy seems but an added cruelty. Then there's the child, for whom the truth about his or her father could be devastating.

But did anyone think to ask the victims themselves?

In their new book, Victims and Victors (Acorn Books, 2000), editors David Reardon, Amy Sobie and Julie Makimaa draw on testimonies of 192 women who experienced pregnancy as the result of rape or incest, and 55 children who were conceived through sexual assault. It turns out that when victims of violence speak for themselves, their opinion of abortion is nearly unanimous-and the opposite of what the average person expects.

Nearly all the women interviewed in this anecdotal survey said they regretted aborting the babies conceived via rape or incest. Of those
giving an opinion, more than 90 percent said they would discourage other victims of sexual violence from having an abortion.

On the other hand, among the women profiled in the book who conceived due to rape or incest and carried to term, not one expressed regret about her choice. Of those giving an opinion, 94 percent of rape victims and 100 percent of incest victims said abortion was not a good option for other women in their situation.

"I feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest," says Kathleen DeZeeuw, whose testimony is included in Victors and Victims. "I feel that we're being used to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side of the story."

[Adam]

Having said all this tho - Palin does look like a hot librarian!

[DroppinScience]

If your president is a failure and he has been elected by your country, then is he not representative of that country?

Not really. Bush won by razor thin margins both times (and actually lost the popular vote the first time, that means MORE PEOPLE VOTED FOR AL GORE). He's even the most unpopular two-term president in modern history. Sure, he's been elected, but it hardly means the country is united.

[rirv]

Ahh, you are aware that he didn't really win the election in 2000, right?
and secondly I didn't vote for the guy, I voted against him, twice. So no, I don't see how he's representative of me personally in any way, and that's why I take offense to being thrown into an "American" catagory that I'm not apart of.

Don't worry - I realise all this. I was just throwing it out there - seeing what would come back. Seriously though, Padster's generalisation of Americans is a pretty ubiquitous phenominen out here in the "rest of the world" which is why it is important for your country's sake that Obama wins the election. McCain, especially with Palin on board, is seen as more of the same that Bush has been serving up for the past eight years. This time though, he will be representative of you.

[Adam]

Guys, don't wind up the americans - remember, they have bigger guns than us!!!

And better teeth!

[yeahwho]

It has to amusing to watch men on this site defend Sarah Palin babbling on how smart of a choice she is.

That shit cracks me up. A bunch of dudes are really impressed by her contributions to feminism (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-steinem4-2008sep04,0,1290251.story) and what she'll bring to this ticket of McCain's.

[kaiser soze]

Don't worry - I realise all this. I was just throwing it out there - seeing what would come back. Seriously though, Padster's generalisation of Americans is a pretty ubiquitous phenominen out here in the "rest of the world" which is why it is important for your country's sake that Obama wins the election. McCain, especially with Palin on board, is seen as more of the same that Bush has been serving up for the past eight years. This time though, he will be representative of you.

I have a feeling that other world leaders won't pony up to mccain as they did bush, especially now. Many are dropping their warm feelings from bush and that sentiment will carry over to another republican (especially one who has been suckling bush's teet).

palin would not win the hearts and minds of progressive governments and corporations. Providing a horrible example of how to handle women rights in the eyes of developing countries.

Let us not forget the level of support poor and disabled mothers would need for their childcare...but yet palin would more than likely be for cutting those programs.

[Lex Diamonds]

It's pretty lame that people are claiming I have a "chip on my shoulder", as if that is a valid point to any debate. It's pretty well-known that most of the world hates America, and for the most part with good reason. I personally don't (well not completely), although there are a lot of aspects of the country that genuinely distress me, and it pisses me off how they have such an influence over everybody when they are for the most part unsure of themselves.

[kaiser soze]

palin = pro-rapist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77WekmM8F8&eurl

[ThatGuy]

http://sarahpalinisanidiot.blogspot.com/

[kaiser soze]

republicons want a small government with a big choice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IS0PJdE0Cs&eurl

Get out of the bodies of women, you do not belong there!

[rirv]

I think Kang and Kodos put it best when they said "Abortions for some, miniture American flags for others."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYCMxD4pylM