Why does Obama continue to get away with plagiarism? [Archive]

DroppinScience

09-13-2008, 10:34 AM

Well, if you even watched that un-professional brutal video you linked, you'd know they weren't claiming he plagiarized the "lipstick on a pig" line. That phrase has been in existence for quite some time, and you can find footage of your best friend John McCain saying that too.

The video is claiming Obama stole lines of "except for education policy, foreign policy, tax-policy, etc. we're gonna change things up!" from a political cartoon. I dunno, is this stuff copyrighted? It could be coincidence. Either way, this is another silly issue you're bringing up.

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 10:37 AM

I know you always try to find a way to dismiss any criticism against your almighty Obama, but stealing and lying are still important issues to me in a President.
Plagiarism is stealing and lying.

ToucanSpam

09-13-2008, 10:57 AM

In February Obama ripped off the speech of Gov. Patrick of Mass. Now, he's taken a political cartoon WORD for WORD and passed it off on as own.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=173473

The whole lipstick on a pig thing...yeah, not even his AT ALL.

To be fair, this podcast/internet news report is pretty unprofessional. That being said, they bring up an important point. Obama has been known to use lines similar to other speeches/quotes/political cartoons. I don't know if this is particularly a new idea or if it really matters. I think of it this way: Dane Cook takes some of his material from other places and he doesn't have a reputation for being the most original comedian. But he delivers the shit out of the material he uses and he's got a reputation for being one of the funniest comedians around.

You're right about Obama ripping other people off, RobMoney. He does that; it's irrefutable. But is that a serious enough issue that it completely taints his reputation as one of the best speakers, or maybe the best Presidential candidate? I'm not really sure either way.

Bob

09-13-2008, 11:20 AM

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/10/obama-repeatedly-quotes-cartoonist-while-on-campaign-trail/

Obama delivered the same applause line during speeches in Terre Haute, Ind., on Saturday and Farmington Hills, Mich., on Monday. Only during the Monday event did he attribute the line to a cartoonist.

“You know, there was a cartoon the other day, it’s true,” he said before repeating the line. “So this is just a bunch of empty talk.”

Asked about the lifting of Toles’ line, Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said that the candidate did not initially know the source of the line, which he had gotten from a friend.

“This came to Senator Obama from a friend who didn’t indicate where he had gotten it from, but the questions it raises certainly continue to ring true,” LaBolt told FOXNews.com.

“He did not know it was from a cartoon and when he was informed that it was, he credited the cartoonist.” LaBolt said.

Toles told FOXNews.com that after the first use, Post editors got in touch with the campaign and Obama made sure to credit Toles when he used the line on Monday. But in Tuesday’s speech, he again used the line without referencing the cartoon.

Toles said he is OK with Obama’s use of his line now that it has gotten credit.

“Of course, I don’t do cartoons for this purpose,” Toles said. “But if they’re cited with attribution, I think I’m all right with it.”

He added that he was unsure how he felt about Obama using his line without citation the first time.

“I thought about it, but didn’t come to a conclusion,” he said.

even fox news is giving him the benefit of the doubt

how many ways are there to say you want to change washington (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa20q2s2BRs) anyway?

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 11:24 AM

Yeah, Lambert is just trying to muddy the issue of the plagiarism charge by attacking the production of the podcast I linked.
Try sticking to the issue at hand Brett, he stole other people's ideas on several occassions and attempted to pass them off as his own without giving credit.

Is that a serious enough issue that it completely taints his reputation as one of the best speakers, or maybe the best Presidential candidate?

That's a question that each individual voter will have to decide for themselves. What I do know is that it's relevant and shold be brought to everyone's attention so they can use that when making that decision on whether it taints Obama enough or not.

Dane Cook takes some of his material from other places and he doesn't have a reputation for being the most original comedian. But he delivers the shit out of the material he uses and he's got a reputation for being one of the funniest comedians around.

The President of the United States is trying to gain my trust, Dane Cook is just trying to make me laugh. There's a bit of a difference there. Being influenced by someone, paying homage to someone, or even doing a cover of someone else's song or art is NOT plagiarizing them.

BTW, I could care less what kind of a Public speaker you are. Just because someone may have good public speaking skills in no way correlates to them being a good President.

Bob

09-13-2008, 11:30 AM

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 11:32 AM

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/10/obama-repeatedly-quotes-cartoonist-while-on-campaign-trail/

even fox news is giving him the benefit of the doubt

how many ways are there to say you want to change washington (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa20q2s2BRs) anyway?

Yeah, they raised the issue that Obama said he first heard the line from a "friend" in the original video I linked.

As if Obama writes his own speeches and wrote that into this speech after he heard it from this "friend" who shall remain nameless.

And even if that entire scenerio were true, you'd think SOMEONE on his staff would have pointed out the fact that it was plagiarized.

When you take into account that he's done this before, it's pretty obvious that he plagiarized it.

SHAME, OBAMA,...SHAME!

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 11:34 AM

by "several" did you mean "two"? or are you saving some other ones for later?

Once a liar, always a liar.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts he's done it before this campaign.

Bob

09-13-2008, 12:06 PM

Once a liar, always a liar.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts he's done it before this campaign.

so "two". got it.

i'm kind of having trouble with the whole stealing theory, though. i mean i agree that there's really no way he came up with that line on his own, it's too similar to be coincidence, i'm not saying he came up with it on his own, but i don't understand why he'd want to steal.

i mean was he sitting around in his living room one day, reading the washington post, and then he sees this cartoon and he says to himself "oh man, that's good stuff, i think i'm going to steal this and not give credit and, you know, hope nobody notices. it would be a big scandal if someone noticed and certainly a scandal is the last thing i need right now and i mean i have a whole bunch of speech writers so i probably don't really need to steal it, but.....no it's cool, nobody will notice. when's the soonest i can use it? 4 days? great! let's go plagiarize some cartoons!"

i'm just having some trouble believing that. i think it's far more plausible that a friend or some other associate gave him the line without telling him where he got it from, obama liked it, didn't go out of his way to make sure it wasn't stolen, and then used it. dude's got speechwriters, his lines come from a bunch of people.

before you ask, no, i can't prove this (neither can you btw) and yes, i am biased, but that said, i just can't fathom why obama (or any politician) would run the political risk of stealing material and then using it a short four days later (particularly given the clean image that he's running on). is he that hard up for material? it just doesn't seem reasonable to me.

King PSYZ

09-13-2008, 12:15 PM

Rob these slam threads against Obama would be hillarious if I didn't think you actually belived them...

I love how a lifelong democrat has transformed into a swiftboat GOPer since Obama started running. Amazing no?

And plagiarism is a bit strong of a term, and frankly could be considered as libel. I wouldn't fuck with an ex lawyer on shit like that if I was you, but your choice. Plagiarism would be if Obama submitted a cartoon to TIME or CNN that copied the content of the other cartoon as his own. This is taking something in the news and presenting it as his "case" against McCain as all stump speaches are supposed to.

That's like saying Dave Letterman, John Stewart, Jay Leno, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, et al are plagiarist of the highest order because they use pieces of the daily news and current events in their humor.

Plagiarsim would be if he gave the "I have a dream" speach and said "Yup, I wrote it, all mine".

But continue with the sensationalist threads, I hope you're being well paid for the GOP spam. At least you know you could get a job blogging for FOX news if this whole McCain thing doesn't work out.

ToucanSpam

09-13-2008, 12:25 PM

Not to be a douche, but printed word is libel, slander is spoken. I think? Sorry Psyz, no harm meant.:D

Anyways, plagiarism might be too harsh a word, but can we all agree his words are in some cases not not his own? And this 'oh well whose words are their own' question is a logical fallacy (suppressed correlative?). The point RobMoney is trying to make is Obama seems to rip other people off without giving credit. I don't know exactly what he is doing but I don't think it is particularly harmful. It is interesting though to see the tactics he employs in his speeches, which may be simply making allusions to other material that in one way or another support whatever point he is making.

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 12:27 PM

i just can't fathom why obama (or any politician) would run the political risk of stealing material and then using it a short four days later (particularly given the clean image that he's running on). is he that hard up for material? it just doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Why would he do it? Perhaps because he just reads what is written for him by his army of speechwriters thus exposing him as an empty suit.
Isn't it better to try to explain the gaffe away as something Obama conciously did, than for him to admit that he just reads whatever his writers throw infront of him, and now this is the second time these hacks have gotten caught with their hand in someone else's cookie jar?
I'd like to see this "friend" come foward.

The fact that this isn't the first time leads me to believe it was absolutely intentional by either him, or SOMEONE on his staff, which is basically an extension of himself.

Bob

09-13-2008, 12:37 PM

The fact that this isn't the first time leads me to believe it was absolutely intentional by either him, or SOMEONE on his staff, which is basically an extension of himself.

again, why? why would a politician intentionally steal something and pass it off as their own 4 days after it was originally printed? it's pointlessly dangerous, there are always other speeches to write.

kaiser soze

09-13-2008, 01:07 PM

Maybe Obama is taking notes from mccain

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_investigates_claim_McCain_plagiarized_spe ech_from_Wikipedia

http://blog.prospect.org/blog/ezraklein/scarymccaincrop.jpg

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 01:21 PM

again, why? why would a politician intentionally steal something and pass it off as their own 4 days after it was originally printed? it's pointlessly dangerous, there are always other speeches to write.

Because obviously Obama made a mistake.
Because he's done it before and gotten away with it.
Because he's too stupid to know he was doing it in the first palce, he was reading what some other hack wrote for him.

take your pick. It happened though, obviously. Why it happened, there could be a million reasons. The real reason is one we'll probably never know.

Documad

09-13-2008, 01:28 PM

Rob these slam threads against Obama would be hillarious if I didn't think you actually belived them...

I love how a lifelong democrat has transformed into a swiftboat GOPer since Obama started running. Amazing no?

Yeah, it's awfully odd. I can't imagine anyone I know having such a dramatic turn around, especially given how flawed McCain is. I could understand someone getting his head turned by a new charismatic republican, but not a George W. Bush retread when we all agree that W has been an utter disaster.

This story is ridiculous. I guess that's because where I work we all trade ideas and work on concepts together and you sort of distill it all and come up with a speech or argument. There are only so many ways to say the same thing, and we all borrow phrasing from other people naturally. I haven't seen anything that troubles me with regard to stealing.

I am truly troubled by the daily lies in this campaign. I know it's how Republicans won last time, and I'm glad that McCain is getting called on the lies on a more regular basis than Bush was in 2004. There is a difference between spin and a lie. McCain is sponsoring a lot of lies. That's particularly troubling when McCain used to known for so called straight talk. He also used to stand for clean campaigning. He's someone I admired and he is permanently tarnished as a man (in my eyes).

By the way, I saw Obama on Letterman the other night and he was terrific. He was self deprecating and charming. I understand why people might not like his policies because they are opposed to subsidizing health care for their fellow americans who are less fortunate than they are, but I can't understand the personal animus directed towards this man. I really can't. He's a class act. I would LOVE to have a man who is a class act in command. I think the first Bush had some class, but it's been a rare quality in presidents. That's not why I'm voting for Obama, but it's a nice side benefit.

travesty

09-13-2008, 01:31 PM

Seems to me that both campaigns have completely plagiarized the last 20 years from both parties. What does it really matter what words actually come out of their mouths? Once in office, you are going to see the exact same shit that has gone on for decades in Washington. For either one of them to even try and tell me they are going to "change" things....psssshw spare me. The only change will be that Bush and Chenney are gone, which is great, but the root of the problems we are having will not even be touched. Can't either of these tools come up with something new, dare I say innovative to REALLY help America? Why haven't we heard any insight about the corporate bailouts from these guys, or immigration/ border policy, or real tax reform, or the erosion of our civil liberties, or real universal healthcare, or arggggh fuck it, I'm going back to bed.

Documad

09-13-2008, 01:43 PM

I'm not sure I even know what plagiarism is supposed to mean in this context. I was once a victim of plagiarism when a student copied most of one of my papers and submitted it to a teacher as her own.

I'm a big person for giving credit where credit is due so I think I'm pretty sensitive to giving credit. When I work on a group project and report the results to my boss, if the boss says, what I particular like was "XYZ" I always say "that part was Jeff's idea."

I have been known to adapt Molly Ivins' joke about Pat Buchanan's convention speech "sounding better in the original German" and I always give her credit because as far as I know she coined that.

If a blogger said that Politician X was "counting his chickens before they are hatched," I suppose it's possible that I would say that Politician X or Politician Y was counting his chickens before they were hatched without saying that I read it on a blog. I'm not even sure I'd remember reading it.

Then there are the things you're exposed to in the 100 plus sources we are exposed to every day. I get ideas out there, but they spin around in my brain and I might repeat something I heard from someplace else without knowing it or without thinking I need to credit it to someone even if I know that I heard it someplace else. For instance, if i ever defend a criminal in a jury trial, I'm going to paraphrase the explanation Beth posted here re what reasonable doubt means because it was common sense and fucking brilliant, and I won't tell the jury that I got the idea from a message board because that would detract from my argument. ;)

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 01:44 PM

Yeah, it's awfully odd. I can't imagine anyone I know having such a dramatic turn around, especially given how flawed McCain is. I could understand someone getting his head turned by a new charismatic republican, but not a George W. Bush retread when we all agree that W has been an utter disaster.

This story is ridiculous. I guess that's because where I work we all trade ideas and work on concepts together and you sort of distill it all and come up with a speech or argument. There are only so many ways to say the same thing, and we all borrow phrasing from other people naturally. I haven't seen anything that troubles me with regard to stealing.

I am truly troubled by the daily lies in this campaign. I know it's how Republicans won last time, and I'm glad that McCain is getting called on the lies on a more regular basis than Bush was in 2004. There is a difference between spin and a lie. McCain is sponsoring a lot of lies. That's particularly troubling when McCain used to known for so called straight talk. He also used to stand for clean campaigning. He's someone I admired and he is permanently tarnished as a man (in my eyes).

By the way, I saw Obama on Letterman the other night and he was terrific. He was self deprecating and charming. I understand why people might not like his policies because they are opposed to subsidizing health care for their fellow americans who are less fortunate than they are, but I can't understand the personal animus directed towards this man. I really can't. He's a class act. I would LOVE to have a man who is a class act in command. I think the first Bush had some class, but it's been a rare quality in presidents. That's not why I'm voting for Obama, but it's a nice side benefit.

Sorry I don't fit into your hole that you want to peg me into.

abcdefz

09-13-2008, 01:45 PM

The idea of speechwriters altogeher bugs me. I think "idea people" are great, but as soon as a ghost writer gets involved, you learn less
about the person whose face is presenting the words as their own.

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 01:47 PM

Then there are the things you're exposed to in the 100 plus sources we are exposed to every day. I get ideas out there, but they spin around in my brain and I might repeat something I heard from someplace else without knowing it or without thinking I need to credit it to someone even if I know that I heard it someplace else. For instance, if i ever defend a criminal in a jury trial, I'm going to paraphrase the explanation Beth posted here re what reasonable doubt means because it was common sense and fucking brilliant, and I won't tell the jury that I got the idea from a message board because that would detract from my argument. ;)

Paraphrasing, or borrowing an idea is different than copying virtually word for word.

QueenAdrock

09-13-2008, 02:21 PM

Plagiarism is taking thoughts and ideas that aren't your own and passing them off as if they were. So copying word for word OR paraphrasing both fall under the category of "plagiarism."

Either way, most politicians I know of have been accused of plagiarism at one time or another. Sad, but it's true. Good ol' boy McCain has had his fair share of plagiarism complaints as well. Perhaps you should look at those cases and be infuriated by them, too.

ToucanSpam

09-13-2008, 02:23 PM

Either way, most politicians I know of have been accused of plagiarism at one time or another. Sad, but it's true. Good ol' boy McCain has had his fair share of plagiarism complaints as well. Perhaps you should look at those cases and be infuriated by them, too.

Correct. If there were some examples posted of complaints against McCain then perhaps we could discuss the idea of plagiarism in a bi-partisan manner instead of just keying in on one politician's goofs.

QueenAdrock

09-13-2008, 02:30 PM

Maybe Obama is taking notes from mccain

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_investigates_claim_McCain_plagiarized_spe ech_from_Wikipedia

http://blog.prospect.org/blog/ezraklein/scarymccaincrop.jpg

Forget that it's plagiarism, the bigger issue here is that he stole from Wikipedia. I mean, really?

Bob

09-13-2008, 02:35 PM

Because obviously Obama made a mistake.

i don't understand. obama intentionally stole something because he made a mistake?

Because he's done it before and gotten away with it.

again, you can only cite to two examples; this thing and the deval patrick thing. and he didn't get away with the deval patrick thing, he got called out on it. are you just assuming that he plagiarizes all the time and the only reason we never hear about it is because he gets away with it? that's not exactly fair, there's no way to defend against that.

Because he's too stupid to know he was doing it in the first palce, he was reading what some other hack wrote for him.

i object to your characterizing obama as being stupid because he's reading a speech that someone else wrote. every fucking politician does this. mccain does it. your hero sarah palin does it. you expect them to spend time on google cite-checking everything to make sure they're not lifting any material from political cartoons? come on. mccain certainly doesn't (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_investigates_claim_McCain_plagiarized_spe ech_from_Wikipedia) (i found this link all by myself i take all the credit)

besides, if that's what happened, then he didn't intentionally steal anything, so i don't know what point you're trying to make.

take your pick. It happened though, obviously. Why it happened, there could be a million reasons. The real reason is one we'll probably never know.

that doesn't seem to be stopping you from acting like you do know.

Laver1969

09-13-2008, 03:18 PM

Forget that it's plagiarism, the bigger issue here is that he stole from Wikipedia. I mean, really?

Come on QA, McCain doesn't know how to use a computer. (lb)

Bob

09-13-2008, 03:22 PM

Come on QA, McCain doesn't know how to use a computer. (lb)

some hack must have written it for him

Documad

09-13-2008, 04:08 PM

I know you always try to find a way to dismiss any criticism against your almighty Obama, but stealing and lying are still important issues to me in a President.
Plagiarism is stealing and lying.
Paraphrasing, or borrowing an idea is different than copying virtually word for word.Maybe Obama is taking notes from mccain

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_investigates_claim_McCain_plagiarized_spe ech_from_Wikipedia

Uh oh, Rob can't vote for McCain now.

I don't think this is a big deal. But it's highly amusing that McCain's youthful speech writers didn't know ANYTHING about Georgia and apparently decided to do what we all would do -- wiki it and accept the wiki summary as fact. :p

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 04:47 PM

Come on QA, McCain doesn't know how to use a computer. (lb)

Thanks for bringing up yet another one of the DNC's gaffes.

McCain doesn't know how to send e-mail or use a computer because THE INJURIES HE SUFFERED AS A PRISONER OF WAR AT THE HANOI HILTON AND THE SEVERE AND CONSTANT TORTURE HAVE LEFT HIM UNABLE TO TYPE, USE A COMPUTER, OR EVEN SALUTE THE FLAG.

Yes, believe it or not they didn't have wifi at the Hanoi Hilton.

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 04:56 PM

Uh oh, Rob can't vote for McCain now.

I don't think this is a big deal. But it's highly amusing that McCain's youthful speech writers didn't know ANYTHING about Georgia and apparently decided to do what we all would do -- wiki it and accept the wiki summary as fact. :p

Georgia's history is what it is.
He may be guilty of citing a source that was incorrect, but he was using it (well his staff was) to get facts about Georgia.

Obama ripped off someone's wit and style.
In the hip-hop world, we call that a "biter" and it's one of the most egregious things a person can do.

The two aren't even close to being the same.

kaiser soze

09-13-2008, 05:04 PM

Obama ripped off someone's wit and style.
In the hip-hop world, we call that a "biter" and it's one of the most egregious things a person can do.

What does Obama have to do with hiphop?

mccain used the statement first when referring to Hillary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR8IhMMhe8w&feature=related

your breath smells like foot

jennyb

09-13-2008, 05:10 PM

"I'm an a illiterate that has to rely on my wife for all of the assistance I can get..." (http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1884558/6206369)

:confused:

kaiser soze

09-13-2008, 05:16 PM

"I'm an a illiterate that has to rely on my wife for all of the assistance I can get..." (http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1884558/6206369)

:confused:

they really want to knock us back to the stoneage

Bob

09-13-2008, 05:17 PM

Georgia's history is what it is.
He may be guilty of citing a source that was incorrect, but he was using it (well his staff was) to get facts about Georgia.

Obama ripped off someone's wit and style.
In the hip-hop world, we call that a "biter" and it's one of the most egregious things a person can do.

The two aren't even close to being the same.

seriously?

QueenAdrock

09-13-2008, 05:20 PM

Thanks for bringing up yet another one of the DNC's gaffes.

McCain doesn't know how to send e-mail or use a computer because THE INJURIES HE SUFFERED AS A PRISONER OF WAR AT THE HANOI HILTON AND THE SEVERE AND CONSTANT TORTURE HAVE LEFT HIM UNABLE TO TYPE, USE A COMPUTER, OR EVEN SALUTE THE FLAG.

Yes, believe it or not they didn't have wifi at the Hanoi Hilton.

There's a lot of technology McCain should look into. Stephen Hawking is able to access information online and use e-mail and he's almost completely paralyzed. Things such as special keyboards, on-screen keyboards, switches and scanning devices are popular for people who can't use their hands properly to type. He shouldn't let an injury like that keep him from keeping up with technology and being able to do everyday stuff that the rest of the world does. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned such new technologies as a viable alternative to him.

Documad

09-13-2008, 06:21 PM

seriously?

I suspect that Rob didn't read the clip carefully. It wasn't just the facts about what Georgia is but the phrasing. It's a classic student cheat -- changing a few words and not citing a source.

DroppinScience

09-13-2008, 06:49 PM

There's a lot of technology McCain should look into. Stephen Hawking is able to access information online and use e-mail and he's almost completely paralyzed. Things such as special keyboards, on-screen keyboards, switches and scanning devices are popular for people who can't use their hands properly to type. He shouldn't let an injury like that keep him from keeping up with technology and being able to do everyday stuff that the rest of the world does. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned such new technologies as a viable alternative to him.

Suddenly I got an image of McCain in a Stephen Hawking-style wheelchair complete with all his techno-wizardry. :)

But don't tell McCain how to use new technologies, the telegraph and Pony Express are good enough for him, thx.

Bob

09-13-2008, 07:24 PM

Suddenly I got an image of McCain in a Stephen Hawking-style wheelchair complete with all his techno-wizardry. :)

whatever it would take to keep palin from taking over

DroppinScience

09-13-2008, 07:27 PM

whatever it would take to keep palin from taking over

Why would you be so concerned? Palin is ready to lead. Alaska is next to Russia! She's been looking into the eyes of Putin all these years!

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 07:55 PM

There's a lot of technology McCain should look into. Stephen Hawking is able to access information online and use e-mail and he's almost completely paralyzed. Things such as special keyboards, on-screen keyboards, switches and scanning devices are popular for people who can't use their hands properly to type. He shouldn't let an injury like that keep him from keeping up with technology and being able to do everyday stuff that the rest of the world does. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned such new technologies as a viable alternative to him.

Ok, I'm with you about alternative technology being able to assist the handicapped with computers, but is using a computer really a necessary skill to being the President?
I'm more concerned with his ability to use judgement under extreme conditions.

QueenAdrock

09-13-2008, 08:20 PM

Depends. I'm not sure if the president has a team who writes his memos for him and sends them out or if he does it himself. I'm not sure how "hands on" a president really is, or whether he just orders others around. Either way, computers are a huge (and sometimes, only) way to contact people nowadays, and I can't see it bringing him anything but good skills.

RobMoney$

09-13-2008, 08:33 PM

I mean I don't really think he needs to know how to use an excel spreadsheet to decide what the best course of action is in Iraq or whether we should start drilling in ANWR.

Knuckles

09-13-2008, 10:09 PM

McCain doesn't know how to send e-mail or use a computer because THE INJURIES HE SUFFERED AS A PRISONER OF WAR AT THE HANOI HILTON AND THE SEVERE AND CONSTANT TORTURE HAVE LEFT HIM UNABLE TO TYPE, USE A COMPUTER, OR EVEN SALUTE THE FLAG.

Yeah! Look how the poor guy has to figure out the tip. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/chickencow/Illfigureoutthetip.jpg):(

yeahwho

09-13-2008, 10:22 PM

I mean I don't really think he needs to know how to use an excel spreadsheet to decide what the best course of action is in Iraq or whether we should start drilling in ANWR.

"Took a whole lot o' tryin' just to get up that hill. Now we up in the big leagues, gettin' our turn at bat. As long as we live, it's you and me, baby"

King PSYZ

09-14-2008, 01:17 AM

Not to be a douche, but printed word is libel, slander is spoken. I think? Sorry Psyz, no harm meant.:D
Last I checked the post was typed, AKA PRINTED... Boo Yaa!

Anyways, plagiarism might be too harsh a word, but can we all agree his words are in some cases not not his own? And this 'oh well whose words are their own' question is a logical fallacy (suppressed correlative?). The point RobMoney is trying to make is Obama seems to rip other people off without giving credit. I don't know exactly what he is doing but I don't think it is particularly harmful. It is interesting though to see the tactics he employs in his speeches, which may be simply making allusions to other material that in one way or another support whatever point he is making.

Not to be overtly corny, but you know that old Beastie Boys line "There's only 12 notes that a man can play"? Well it sorta has a point in there that you could probablly find a previous utterance of a joke or catchline in a speach or presentation of any kind since humans first felt compelled to let everyone else know they had something important to say.

Hell I used that line before the comic was printed, so that comic needs to give me credit in his next article... And half the commentors on digg, fark, huffington post, politico, cnn, etc.

This is the thing, it's such a non issue that it makes me physically ill. All this diversion and swift boating by the GOP is frankly un-American. Could we focus on real issues not gaffes, or out of context quotes, or faux rage over unrelated comments?

RobMoney$

09-14-2008, 08:12 AM

Hell I used that line before the comic was printed, so that comic needs to give me credit in his next article... And half the commentors on digg, fark, huffington post, politico, cnn, etc.

No, the comic was printed and 4 or 5 days later Obama was using it in his speech? That's not a coincidence. It's plagiarism.

That's like saying you invented the Forman Grill first, but you never got a copyright on it, but you want a share of their profits anyway.

This is the thing, it's such a non issue that it makes me physically ill. All this diversion and swift boating by the GOP is frankly un-American. Could we focus on real issues not gaffes, or out of context quotes, or faux rage over unrelated comments?

I think everyone should decide for themselves how much of an issue it is or isn't.
These character issues keep coming up about Obama and you guys just keep saying it's a non-issue.
OK, if that's how you want to handle it. But you can't say I didn't tell you so.

mikizee

09-14-2008, 09:01 AM

I just think theyre all crooked, and we are fucked no matter what.

the end

Dorothy Wood

09-15-2008, 12:41 AM

That's like saying you invented the Forman Grill first, but you never got a copyright on it, but you want a share of their profits anyway.

that's not what it's like at all. completely different scenario.

he was repeating a joke he was told, read, whatever. it's a little weird, but people do that all the time. it's not like the comic was expertly worded, it was basically a list of items and probably something that many people had already thought. part of why it's amusing is the recognition, the artist is mirroring the ideas of his audience.

anyway, it's kinda uncool, but I don't think there was anything sinister behind it.

it's just astounding to me that "stealing" a joke is somehow worse and/or more deceitful than reciting a wikipedia page.