so i want to beat the crap out of one of my friends ...

[Dharma]

We've been friends for over 10 years. She is a great person usually.

I was at her house this past weekend and I found a bunch of bottles of hardcore liquor in her kitchen, she only drinks wine.

So I asked her why she has so many bottles ... Figuring she had leftovers from a party or something.

She said buys them for Allison (the 15 year old daughter of a co-worker she tutors)

My jaw drops ...and the argument begins!!! ...

Me: yelling at her that that is wrong on so many levels.

Her: trying to convey if Allison is going to do it, she wants her to do it at her house ... So she is safe.

We fight like sisters, so the yelling part was no big deal. But, I was so disgusted I left and we haven't spoken in two days.

Wtf?
Am I out of line here?
Or is she a complete moron?

[NoFenders]

She's a coplete moron who could lose just about everything if the 15yr old ever goes over the line. The daughter of a co-worker? Sounds like grounds for termination as well. I don't think a court (I'm not a lawyer) would have much patience for that. Not a very bright person at all. How/why would she make such a connection??
:confused:












:cool:

[paul jones]

give her a slap on the tits then knee her chin then tickle her until she pees her pants(y)

[ToucanSpam]

Underage drinking in what should be a controlled environment is substantially better than her acquiring alcohol through other means and drinking someplace where something bad could happen. Not that I am advocating underage drinking, but this seems like the best option of a bad situation.

[Lex Diamonds]

How many people don't drink hard liquor when they're 15?

You're being a chump. Try to remember when you were young.

[Dharma]

How many people don't drink hard liquor when they're 15?

You're being a chump. Try to remember when you were young.

Sneaking off with your friends and having beers, smoking pot, and smoking cigerettes.. Is a part growing up ...

I am not trying be a hypocrite or sound like a prude, because I have done my fair share.

But... I am talking about strong liquor... Lots of it ... I just don't see condoning it in that matter, that poor girl is doomed to become an alcoholic...I am talking about 3 times a week she is at my friends house with other girls having mixed drinks and shots of whiskey and tequila.

Plus, it also makes me see a side to her now ... Someday when I have kids ... I don't want her anywhere near them.

[Adam]

To be fair, I wish I became an alcoholic earlier in life than what I did. So many wasted years of sensible drinking :'(

[ms.peachy]

Your friend must be out of her freakin' mind. Does she have any idea what the repercussions will be for her if that 15 year old then goes out and does any kind of stupid thing whist intoxicated, and it gets round back to her? She is being unbelievably stupid. Jesus H Christmas.

[gbsuey]

I'm thinking if you let this girls' mother know what's been goin on she'll do the crap-kicking for you.
i was drinking and smoking dope by that age but mostly whatever i could get my hands on-which at that age with not much cash wasn't a shit load.
Whatever my kids end up doing i'd like to hope they can be honest with me about it-i know i'm a helluva lot more open than my folks-but no doubt there'll be shit going on they won't want to tell me. But if i found a friend was regularly supplying them with them spirits when they're supposed to be TEACHING them i'd be like-NO BITCH DO NOT GIVE MY CHILDREN TEQUILA WHEN YOU SHOULD BE HELPING THEM LEARN STUFF(old comedy reference)......wheeee-that's the sound of it going over most of you's heads.

[Adam]

are you sure there is no back story to it?

like, she regulates how much she can drink. People buy stuff in bulk all the time. If I buy 5 bottles of whiskey then it ain't for one night, its for the whole week. Spirits are also easier to keep an eye on of how much you've drunk. Beer and larger you can end up downing a case before you realise you've posioned your blood.

[Randetica]

jail time

[Dorothy Wood]

I think that's really inappropriate. and I highly doubt your friend's preventing that girl from drinking other places. At 15, her brain is still forming and she should be discouraged from drinking. She shouldn't be getting the message from a role model that it's okay to binge drink (I'm guessing she's binge drinking).

is there any way your friend has a drinking problem?

ah, I think no matter what it's a pretty dangerous situation. especially since it's not even her kid.

I tried drinking when I was young, most people do. I didn't stick with it because my mom was adamant about me not drinking and instilled the fear of becoming an alcoholic (it runs in the family on both sides). But I knew some girls who would go over to their friends' houses who had parents who bought them drinks and some of them would just get sooo wasted and make themselves sick. it's really stupid and just shouldn't be allowed by adults. I don't think it's a necessary part of growing up to get wasted and kill your brain cells when you're a teenager. there's plenty of time for that in college.

[checkyourprez]

idk i dont necessarily have a problem with the 15 year old drinking. most people did when they were that age. but your friend really is getting into some riskay business.

its not even about the role model thing, or the brain still forming thing, because like i said everyone does it. its about her becoming a bum when she looses her job and has to wear an orange jumpsuit for a number of years. im pretty sure there is no way to explain that to police/prosecutors if you get caught.

lastly even if she does stop that girl has some serious ammunition on her to make her keep doing it now. if she says she wants to stop she can say well im going to go tell my mommie blah blah blah. your friend is in a pile.

[cookiepuss]

are you sure there is no back story to it?

like, she regulates how much she can drink. People buy stuff in bulk all the time. If I buy 5 bottles of whiskey then it ain't for one night, its for the whole week. Spirits are also easier to keep an eye on of how much you've drunk. Beer and larger you can end up downing a case before you realise you've posioned your blood.

yeah see...I slipped some alcohol to my nephew on his highschool graduation day. but I doled it out to him by spiking his drinks, I didn't just give him the bottle and say "hey go to town little buddy." And my sister knew I was doing it and she was fine with it, she knew he was gonna drink in moderation. I made sure the kid had a Designated Driver and I told him to call me and I'd come get them if the DD fell through.

Still, I realize I'm not the most responsible aunt for giving him booze... I did however try to minimize the risk by making it as safe for him as possible.

I don't know what this lady is doing though. my nephew is 18, not 15.

[Adam]

^^oh yeah - 21 for the yanks... I forgot they can't hold their booze until out of their teens :p

I come from an Irish catholic family so maybe I'm different cus we are born into guinness, but I was given booze at 15 by my family. It was regulated and I was quickly learnt that alcopops and all those bright coloured drinks are not great - 'here, try some jamesons followed by some bushmills' I was told and I never got into the cider and crap you are supposed to drink in your teens.

[Dharma]

My issue with this situation is that my friend is supplying an underage girl and her friends hardcore alcohol three times a week, and shows zero accountability that its wrong.

Not that 15 years old drink alcohol, they do. When they can get their hands on it, which normally isn't three times a week.

I drank when I was young.. Spuratically.

I didn't have a well stocked bar waiting for me, calling my name when I was having a bad day...Allison is at a point where she is calling my friend and saying "I need to come over and have a drink" ... After having a fight with her parents or boyfriend...

This is just sick.

[ScarySquirrel]

Yet the world somehow continues turning...

I'd say it like this... it's none of your concern really, so don't bother yourself with it. Let your friend play their hand out and if something bad is going to come of it, then it eventually will and what happens is what happens.

It is what it is.

[Dharma]

Yet the world somehow continues turning...

I'd say it like this... it's none of your concern really, so don't bother yourself with it. Let your friend play their hand out and if something bad is going to come of it, then it eventually will and what happens is what happens.

It is what it is.

So when she ends up morgue after a drunk driving accident (yeah know that thing that RARELY happens in LA) I am sure my conscience will be clear.

[wanton wench]

the squirrel is right though. it may be scary but he is right.

if you want you conscience to be clear then go ring the girls mom and tell her.

just remember, your actions will always cause a reaction.

[Dharma]

the squirrel is right though. it may be scary but he is right.

if you want you conscience to be clear then go ring the girls mom and tell her.

just remember, your actions will always cause a reaction.

I have to deal with this directly on with my friend ... I am thinking of going over there tonight and taking all of the bottles and smashing them on her driveway ... There's a good $400 worth ... And if she replaces it for these girls, I might reconsider having her as a friend...

[Dorothy Wood]

don't do that! maybe just steal the bottles. if you go all crazy with them, she won't take you as seriously, she'll just be angry with you.

this is funny, but I'm concerned enough about this to have just called my friend who's a social worker/therapist. she hasn't called me back yet, but I thought I'd say what I think.

I think that what's happening is bordering on abuse and is wrong. there's also a little something wrong with a woman who wants to hang out and drink with a 15 year old 3 nights a week. I'm not saying any of it is intentional though.

I think you should definitely talk to your friend and see if something's going on with her, that she thinks this is a normal thing to do. she'd gotta have something missing in her life that is oddly filled with socializing with teenagers and getting them to like her with alcohol.


I think it's wrong to stand by and do nothing. alcoholism is a serious thing that destroys people's lives. If this girl is already growing dependent on alcohol it is a serious situation because it's getting imprinted as behavior that alcohol is necessary to cope.

your friend is the adult, this 15 year old is a child who is absorbing the world around her in order to learn how to function as an adult, she needs to remember that.


sorry to ramble, I just got really upset by squirrel and wench's comments. :/

[Dharma]

I went over there this afternoon while she was at work and put all of bottles in the trunk of my car and left a note that says:

"you know my brother died of a drug overdose, you really can't expect me to walk away and do nothing after telling me you give teenagers alcohol. I don't think you've seriously thought about what the consequences are"

Its not word for word, but that was the jist of it. At least now I don't feel a weight on my conscience.

[checkyourprez]

what you really need to do is introduce her to pot. once she sees how much better weed is than alcohol she will stop drinking and you wont even have to deal with the situation anymore. (lb)

[Dorothy Wood]

I went over there this afternoon while she was at work and put all of bottles in the trunk of my car and left a note that says:

"you know my brother died of a drug overdose, you really can't expect me to walk away and do nothing after telling me you give teenagers alcohol. I don't think you've seriously thought about what the consequences are"

Its not word for word, but that was the jist of it. At least now I don't feel a weight on my conscience.

good job, maybe she'll stop and really think about what she's been doing now.

[checkyourprez]

I have to deal with this directly on with my friend ... I am thinking of going over there tonight and taking all of the bottles and smashing them on her driveway ... There's a good $400 worth ... And if she replaces it for these girls, I might reconsider having her as a friend...

and another i wanted to address. $400 worth? WTF! im am assuming its not grey goose and other top of the line shit. so that means its less pricey type of stuff. average 1.75 liter is like 25/30 give or take. average liter is like 15/20 give or take. so you're talking like 15 bottles here? for real for real?

[Dharma]

and another i wanted to address. $400 worth? WTF! im am assuming its not grey goose and other top of the line shit. so that means its less pricey type of stuff. average 1.75 liter is like 25/30 give or take. average liter is like 15/20 give or take. so you're talking like 15 bottles here? for real for real?

Now that I have the bottles, I can give a better estimate ... 11 bottles ... About $250-$300

SCORE!

[checkyourprez]

and this was all for this girl? does your friend just casually drink and had a little bar for her own personal use than invited her young protege to drink from it when she wanted? or did she buy them all exclusively to drink with the girl?


i think that will let us see deeper into this situation.

[Dharma]

and this was all for this girl? does your friend just casually drink and had a little bar for her own personal use than invited her young protege to drink from it when she wanted? or did she buy them all exclusively to drink with the girl?

i think that will let us see deeper into this situation.

My friend only drinks wine, and has a glass every night. That's why I asked about the harder stuff, which led to her telling me she supplies a girl she tutors and her friends with alcohol and a place to drink "safely" ...

So those bottles were exclusively for that girl and her friends.

I am leaving town back to LA tomorrow and she lives in Santa Barbara .. So I had to think quick because I can't be here to see what she is doing, so this afternoon I came up with the idea of grabbing the goods and leaving the note that might shake her up since it mentions what happen to my brother.

There isn't really much I can do now, I could kick her ass but that won't solve anything.

[ToucanSpam]

Confrontation will lose you a friend, potentially. SS is right, it is what it is.

[Randetica]

Confrontation will lose you a friend, potentially. SS is right, it is what it is.

the easiest way is usually the wrong way which brings you straight to hell


i would feel guilty doing nothing about it

[TAL]

CATFIGHT!!
.

[Knuckles]

The people who are saying "it is what it is" are sadly missing the point.

Sure, kids are going to do things like experiment with alcohol and drugs but that doesn't mean you should condone it. This lady is not just condoning it she is facilitating it.

That's criminal behavior. She needs to be stopped.

Dharma, I think you did the right thing. I also feel you need to check up on the situation to make sure it doesn't continue. If it does it's time to get the authorities involved. I can't imagine how I would feel if a tragedy occurred with one of these children and I hadn't done anything to stop it.

[ms.peachy]

I come from an Irish catholic family so maybe I'm different cus we are born into guinness, but I was given booze at 15 by my family.

There is a world of difference between being allowed alcohol by your parents, where it is regulated and integrated as part of a family occasion, and someone into whose care you have entrusted your child giving them booze regularly without your knowledge. Heaven help that woman when/if the girl's parents find out. If it was my kid, I'd rip her spine out through her throat. How dare she undermine their authority in this way, when they have placed her in this position of trust.

This friend needs beating in the head, I tell you. I was talking with a colleague about this today. As many of you already know, I work directly with kids 12-16 in a mentoring program. I can't for the life of me imagine how fucking insane and stupid I would have to be for it to ever occur to me to offer them alcohol. Not only would I lose my job, but I'd be barred from working with young people as it would turn up on a CRB check anyplace else I applied, so I wouldn't be able to get another one either. When I told me colleague about this, her jaw pretty much hit the floor. So very, very unacceptable, on so may levels.

[NoFenders]

Good job Dharma.(y)











:cool:

[QueenAdrock]

Sadly enough, this shit happened all the time at my old high school. The parents all wanted to be seen as 'cool' to their kids, and knew that they drank at that age, so they gave them alcohol at parties. Their reasoning was the same, they're going to do it anyways, so might as well make them safe. I've heard the argument that it's the same thing as giving your kids condoms. It's not. It's like giving your kid a hooker and condoms at the same time and telling them to be safe. If it was say, giving the kid an at-home breathalyser kit to keep in the car to make sure he's safe to drive home, that's the same thing as condoms. "I don't want you to do it, but if you're in the situation that you need it, I'd rather you be safe than sorry."

There's a big difference between not wanting them to do it, but giving them the means to be safe, and actually facilitating the problem. Giving them the alcohol and saying "Oh, well, you're going to do it anyways," is a cop-out. What if cocaine is popular in the community? Are you just going to buy it for them and say, "Go nuts, I'd rather have you do it in the house than on the street"? I mean, where is the line drawn?

[ToucanSpam]

Giving them the alcohol and saying "Oh, well, you're going to do it anyways," is a cop-out. What if cocaine is popular in the community? Are you just going to buy it for them and say, "Go nuts, I'd rather have you do it in the house than on the street"? I mean, where is the line drawn?

I respect your point of view on this situation, but this is a logical fallacy. Cocaine is illegal to purchase and traffic, alcohol is not (unless to a minor). So I guess the line is drawn by the law in this case.


Buying booze in the massive quantity that the OP suggested is pretty questionable, but you won't be able to police underage drinking unless you buy it for them and host parties. Yes, it is bad to buy booze for kids in the first place. Yes, the parents are making a questionable decision to host a party with booze for kids. Are the parents trying to protect their kids by hosting a party so they can make sure nothing goes wrong? Yes.


Frankly, I think people need to lighten up about underage drinking. It happens, it is UNSTOPPABLE, and it is better to have parents policing it than have them on the street where really scary shit can happen to them.

[Dharma]

I respect your point of view on this situation, but this is a logical fallacy. Cocaine is illegal to purchase and traffic, alcohol is not (unless to a minor). So I guess the line is drawn by the law in this case.


Buying booze in the massive quantity that the OP suggested is pretty questionable, but you won't be able to police underage drinking unless you buy it for them and host parties. Yes, it is bad to buy booze for kids in the first place. Yes, the parents are making a questionable decision to host a party with booze for kids. Are the parents trying to protect their kids by hosting a party so they can make sure nothing goes wrong? Yes.


Frankly, I think people need to lighten up about underage drinking. It happens, it is UNSTOPPABLE, and it is better to have parents policing it than have them on the street where really scary shit can happen to them.

This is a pretty naive statement.

My brother started drinking at a young age and it lead to drugs later...which later lead to an overdose..then death, if you have never experienced head on what the consequences are of underage drinking. I suggest you say nothing.

Thanks Knuckles for bringing the topic back to a more mature level.

Your only a child once..

I just don't understand the need for 15 year old girls to drink hardcore alcohol THREE TIMES A WEEK!

[QueenAdrock]

I respect your point of view on this situation, but this is a logical fallacy. Cocaine is illegal to purchase and traffic, alcohol is not (unless to a minor). So I guess the line is drawn by the law in this case.


The kid's a minor, so yes, it is still illegal to do.

But to say "Oh, if we keep it at my house, they'll be safe," is faulty reasoning too. I'm sure those kids want to take booze to an empty house, with no parents, so they can drink, play music, have sex, be as obnoxious as they want. Just because parents give them booze to be safe at their house doesn't mean they'll always be there. I knew plenty of kids in high school where their parents bought them alcohol and wanted them to stay there to be safe. They took the alcohol to another friend's house, whose parents were gone, partied there, got busted by the cops. We didn't have a basketball team that year because they all received drinking citations and were ineligible for after school activities.

I never got in trouble for drinking, and my parents didn't supply me with alcohol. I reckon it's because they raised me well. They taught me about all things in moderation, ever since I was little. It seems like parents give up on parenting and rather give in to the whims of their children and say "Well, do it here so you're safe."

[ToucanSpam]

This is a pretty naive statement.


There was nothing naive about what I said. You can disagree with it, but don't patronize me or ever think you're better than I am. Got it?



Alcohol three times a week is ridiculous, however, adult or not. I missed that part.

And QA, I was raised well enough to know moderation, too. My folks never supplied me with booze until I was of legal age in Canada. I am of the opinion that a parent can still teach a kid moderation in the circumstances described in this thread, with the exception of the three times a week foolishness. In this case it seems like not even the adult understands moderation.

[Dharma]

There was nothing naive about what I said. You can disagree with it, but don't patronize me or ever think you're better than I am. Got it?



Shut the fuck up.

[ToucanSpam]

Uh, no.

[ms.peachy]

I am of the opinion that a parent can still teach a kid moderation in the circumstances described in this thread

The person who is the subject of this thread is not the child's parent, she is someone the parent has entrusted to tutor (presumably not in "how to hold your liquor".) The abuse of this trust is vile and pathetic. No one has said that a parent can't teach their child to drink in moderation; what has been said is that it is totally inappropriate for adults in a position of authority to provide alcohol for minors for the purposes of 'partying'.

[Lex Diamonds]

To be honest when I was 15 I was halfway to being a fully fledged alcoholic. A lot of fucked up shit happened at that time in my life and I drank on the daily. Still do in fact. And back then during school holidays damn right me and my friends would drink hard liquor every day, it was pretty much the norm.

Basically I guess the main thing to take from this is let the kid do what she wants, there's a chance (if she's lucky) she'll turn out like me. :)

[Dharma]

To be honest when I was 15 I was halfway to being a fully fledged alcoholic. A lot of fucked up shit happened at that time in my life and I drank on the daily. Still do in fact. And back then during school holidays damn right me and my friends would drink hard liquor every day, it was pretty much the norm.

Basically I guess the main thing to take from this is let the kid do what she wants, there's a chance (if she's lucky) she'll turn out like me. :)

Haaaaaaaaa

You're a prime example of why I reacted the way that I did.

Honestly, I know my reaction would have been different if it three boys instead of three girls. I think I would have walked away.

[wanton wench]

Honestly, I know my reaction would have been different if it three boys instead of three girls. I think I would have walked away.

not that it matters.......but you just lost my respect. :(

*walks away*

[Dharma]

not that it matters.......but you just lost my respect. :(

*walks away*

I would have had the initial argument I had with her, but I don't think I would have gone back to confiscate the alcohol.

Boys are a lot harder to control than girls, it was just that protective side of me that thought "girls that age shouldn't be doing this" ...

I don't think badly of Paddy when he mentions drinking at a young age, he also grew up in europe ... Where you start drinking at a younger age.

I can't really explain in words how much this has bothered me, I can't really honesly for sure say if they were boys I would have cared less. But ...an overwhelming sense of protection I never knew I had has surfaced these past few days, and maybe I will do some good with it.

You never really know how your going to react, until it really happens.

[TAL]

I was 19 the first time I got drunk.

[Dorothy Wood]

Toucan, I don't know where you got your over-inflated ego from, but you're definitely being naive about this topic.

The fact of the matter is, barring any moral misgivings about teen drinking, alcohol is detrimental to cognitive development. Yes, kids drink and get drunk...but not all of them do and not all of them should. Particularly if this girl is already showing signs of dependence. I said it before, but her brain is still developing and mapping these behaviors that will likely stick with her for life. If she's not prone to addiction, she may be alright, but it doesn't discount the health effects she could suffer or the psychological (rather than physical) dependence she could develop.

teenagers are not adults, no matter how much they try to convince you.

also, my friend's mother provided alcohol to me and our other friends sometimes when we were around 17/18, but that didn't stop us from drinking other times and without supervision. and it also didn't stop my friend from binge drinking and getting herself into dangerous situations with men on more than one occasion. :/


anyway, high five to all the mature people in here who realize this is something that shouldn't just have been let go. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the "it is what it is" statement. what does that even mean? what is it?

[taquitos]

Booze! Yeah! I'm drinking a beer!

[taquitos]

beer (http://digitalheadbutt.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/alcohol-pringles.jpg)

[Dorothy Wood]

put it away! you're only 14 years old god damn it!

[taquitos]

1st result from GIS for "so i want to beat the crap out of one of my friends" (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2343/2380477071_2f3019743f.jpg?v=0)

[KingOfPop]

Grown-ups shouldn't give kids "Jesus Juice".

[funk63]

Shut the hell up Michael Jackson.

[Dharma]

I should hook MJ up with my douchebag friend.

[KingOfPop]

What?! I have opinions too! I think grown-ups who give kids booze are poopy!

[RobMoney$]

To be honest when I was 15 I was halfway to being a fully fledged alcoholic. A lot of fucked up shit happened at that time in my life and I drank on the daily. Still do in fact. And back then during school holidays damn right me and my friends would drink hard liquor every day, it was pretty much the norm.

Basically I guess the main thing to take from this is let the kid do what she wants, there's a chance (if she's lucky) she'll turn out like me. :)

You know what, I was doing coke, drinking, and smoking dust joints at least four times a week when I was 15.

...and luckily by the time I was 22 I was in AA & NA trying to figure out whose attention I was trying to get and why I was so pissed off at the world.

[checkyourprez]

I would have had the initial argument I had with her, but I don't think I would have gone back to confiscate the alcohol.

Boys are a lot harder to control than girls, it was just that protective side of me that thought "girls that age shouldn't be doing this" ...

I don't think badly of Paddy when he mentions drinking at a young age, he also grew up in europe ... Where you start drinking at a younger age.

I can't really explain in words how much this has bothered me, I can't really honesly for sure say if they were boys I would have cared less. But ...an overwhelming sense of protection I never knew I had has surfaced these past few days, and maybe I will do some good with it.

You never really know how your going to react, until it really happens.

There are some definite contradictions within this statement.

First if they were boys you wouldn't care do take further action after the initial confrontation? Yet some of your reasoning behind doing what your doing is that it was your brother who died from an OD brought on by early drinking and drug use. That doesn't make sense to me.

Secondly the "he also grew up in europe" part. How does that change anything? Are Europeans aliens? Are they a different species? It's ok for Europeans to drink earlier but not Americans? Why?

I dont have a problem with your stance overall, just playing devils advocate on those points where I feel you contradicted yourself.

[Dharma]

There are some definite contradictions within this statement.

First if they were boys you wouldn't care do take further action after the initial confrontation? Yet some of your reasoning behind doing what your doing is that it was your brother who died from an OD brought on by early drinking and drug use. That doesn't make sense to me.

Secondly the "he also grew up in europe" part. How does that change anything? Are Europeans aliens? Are they a different species? It's ok for Europeans to drink earlier but not Americans? Why?

I dont have a problem with your stance overall, just playing devils advocate on those points where I feel you contradicted yourself.

Like I mentioned before, it has been hard to express in words how this has affected me. My initial feeling to this ordeal was they are "teenage girls", and that's what bothered me the most.

My brothers passing has changed my views on a lot of things over the past 7 years. It came up during this situation, but he died of a drug OD ... So I was trying not to compare the two ... Even though he did drink at a young age, I was too young to see it to use it as an example.

Different countries have different drinking ages, I could be wrong but I think the UK is 18? and I am not sure about Canada ... So when I get feedback from people in other countries I have to take into account the legal age of drinking in their country. Here in America ... It is 6 years premature which I find reckless and excessive. Somewhere where its 18, they wouldn't find it a big deal.

[checkyourprez]

Like I mentioned before, it has been hard to express in words how this has affected me. My initial feeling to this ordeal was they are "teenage girls", and that's what bothered me the most.

My brothers passing has changed my views on a lot of things over the past 7 years. It came up during this situation, but he died of a drug OD ... So I was trying not to compare the two ... Even though he did drink at a young age, I was too young to see it to use it as an example.

Different countries have different drinking ages, I could be wrong but I think the UK is 18? and I am not sure about Canada ... So when I get feedback from people in other countries I have to take into account the legal age of drinking in their country. Here in America ... It is 6 years premature which I find reckless and excessive. Somewhere where its 18, they wouldn't find it a big deal.

Do you find it reckless because the law says it is, or because you feel the action itself is? If the law was 18 here would you have a problem with it?

[Dharma]

Do you find it reckless because the law says it is, or because you feel the action itself is? If the law was 18 here would you have a problem with it?

18 years old in Los Angeles? No fucking way.

You can't even drive alone legally here now until you turn 18.

Too many kids drinking and driving, in LA we don't have good public transportation, you have to drive everywhere.

So I would say the laws that are in place are fine.

[checkyourprez]

18 years old in Los Angeles? No fucking way.

You can't even drive alone legally here now until you turn 18.

Too many kids drinking and driving, in LA we don't have good public transportation, you have to drive everywhere.

So I would say the laws that are in place are fine.

Honey, im going to be honest with you. I don't know too many (any) teenage kids that get drunk and use public transportation.

My point though is that if you see it as okay in Europe at 18 because the law says it okay, but here you don't just because the law doesn't say its ok, it is just a bit hypocritical.

Its one thing if you were just worried about your friends welfare, getting in trouble and her facing the consequences. Like you don't want her to loose her job or get in trouble with the law. But the way I see it you are more worried about the girl(s). But if you feel it was okay for Padster to drink in Europe at that age, I don't get why its not okay for these girls to drink here. On a moral level, because that is where I feel you have the problem with it. But the way I'm seeing it, you have the moral dilemma based on what the law says. Which is where I see a lack of justification. Morally one law would have to be right and one would have to be wrong.

[Dharma]

Honey, im going to be honest with you. I don't know too many (any) teenage kids that get drunk and use public transportation.

My point though is that if you see it as okay in Europe at 18 because the law says it okay, but here you don't just because the law doesn't say its ok, it is just a bit hypocritical.

Its one thing if you were just worried about your friends welfare, getting in trouble and her facing the consequences. Like you don't want her to loose her job or get in trouble with the law. But the way I see it you are more worried about the girl(s). But if you feel it was okay for Padster to drink in Europe at that age, I don't get why its not okay for these girls to drink here. On a moral level, because that is where I feel you have the problem with it. But the way I'm seeing it, you have the moral dilemma based on what the law says. Which is where I see a lack of justification. Morally one law would have to be right and one would have to be wrong.

I don't really give a shit about others countries, and whatever age limits they have or don't have.

I don't give a shit if Paddy started drinking at age 6, and started snorting blow at age 9.

Were talking about 15 year olds, not 18.

If there were a few beers in the fridge I would of said whatever, but we are talking liquor, not lite beer.

I was put in a situation I wasn't comfortable with and I went with what my heart told me to do. I couldn't just walk away, I still haven't I was supposed to go back to LA tonight and I am still here.

What would you have done?

Its interesting how the 20-24 year olds responses are the same, and those over 25 have pretty much agreed it's not right.

[checkyourprez]

I don't really give a shit about others countries, and whatever age limits they have or don't have.

I don't give a shit if Paddy started drinking at age 6, and started snorting blow at age 9.

Were talking about 15 year olds, not 18.

If there were a few beers in the fridge I would of said whatever, but we are talking liquor, not lite beer.

I was put in a situation I wasn't comfortable with and I went with what my heart told me to do. I couldn't just walk away, I still haven't I was supposed to go back to LA tonight and I am still here.

What would you have done?

Its interesting how the 20-24 year olds responses are the same, and those over 25 have pretty much agreed it's not right.


What would I have done? I'm not sure, taking the booze? No. Telling my friend they are getting into some seriously risky behavior? Yes. If you take the liquor and they are seriously committed to what they are doing they just go buy more, and nothing has been accomplished (although you now have a sweet stash yourself). Although who knows, maybe it had an impact and she saw the error of her ways. It's way more difficult being a friend in this situation. If you don't know the person you can just call the cops or look the other way. But here you have a responsibility not only to those girls, but to your friend. That's where I see the bigger problem, she is really risking fucking her shit up. I don't have as big of a problem with 15 year olds drinking hard liquor. (A bit of a problem with some over age tutor type of person giving it to them though)

And I'll attribute the under/over 25 response to the fact that most people under are still partying and can remember that stage of 15 quite well. Plus they don't have as much to loose in life. The overs probably have kids, are more matured (or uptight, depends on who you ask, I'm not saying either or) and have a lot more responsibilities in life.

[Dharma]

My whole point is the excess of the situation.

Three times a week?
Hard liquor?
they are supposed to be getting tutored, your giving them shots instead?

No. No. No.

If she said it was birthdays, prom or graduation. I would of said whatever .... Been there, its a part of growing up.

Doing shots three nights a week? On school nights?

No. No.

[Lex Diamonds]

I think you need to chillax. Get the old crackpipe down from the attic and leave those poor kiddies alone.

[Randetica]

yeah just look away and the problem will disappear like a magican in a cloud of weed smoke

[Lex Diamonds]

Or a magician in a hot spoon of smack. (y)

[Dharma]

I'm done with this situation, I am leaving Santa Barbara tonight.

Thanks for everyone's input.

[Lex Diamonds]

No problem. Let me know if you need anything else, pills, coke etc.