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View Full Version : So you want "Change"?


RobMoney$
09-18-2008, 06:19 PM
This is just an interesting e-mail I recieved, but I thought it was spot on and conveyed a lot of the same things I've been thinking.
I'm RobMoney, and I approve this message.

Subject: So you want change??

Dear Friends:
My name is Joe Porter. I live in Champaign, Illinois. I'm 46 years old, a born-again Christian, a husband, a father, a small business owner, a veteran, and a homeowner. I don't consider myself to be either conservative or liberal, and I vote for the person, not Republican or Democrat. I don't believe there are "two Americas" - but that every person in this country can be whomever and whatever they want to be if they'll just work to get there - and nowhere else on earth can they find such opportunities. I believe our government should help those who are legitimately downtrodden, and should always put the interests of America first.

The purpose of this message is that I 'm concerned about the future of this great nation. I'm worried that the silent majority of honest, hard-working, tax-paying people in this country have been passive for too long. Most folks I know choose not to involve themselves in politics. They go about their daily lives, paying their bills, raising their kids, and doing what they can to maintain the good life. They vote and consider doing so to be a sacred trust. They shake their heads at the political pundits and so-called "news", thinking that what they hear is always spun by whomever is reporting it. They can't understand how elected officials can regularly violate the public trust with pork barrel spending. They don't want government handouts. They want the government to protect them, not raise their taxes for more government programs.

We are in the unique position in this country of electing our leaders. It's a privilege to do so. I've never found a candidate in any election with whom I agreed on everything. I'll wager that most of us don't even agree with our families or spouses 100% of the time. So when I step into that voting booth, I always try to look at the big picture and cast my vote for the man or woman who is best qualified for the job. I've hired a lot of people in my lifetime, and essentially that's what an election is - a hiring process. Who has the credentials? Whom do I want working for me? Whom can I trust to do the job right?

I'm concerned that a growing number of voters in this country simply don't get it. They are caught up in a fervor they can't explain, and calling it "change".

Change what?, I ask.

Well, we're going to change America, they say.

In what way? I query.

We want someone new and fresh in the White House, they exclaim.

So, someone who's not a politician? I press.

Uh, well, no, we just want a lot of stuff changed, so we're voting for Obama, they state.

So the current system, the system of freedom and democracy that has enabled a man to grow up in this great country, get a fine education, raise incredible amounts of money and dominate the news and win his party's nomination for the White House - that system's all wrong?

No, no, that part of the system's okay - we just need a lot of change.

And so it goes. "Change we can believe in." Quite frankly, I don't believe that vague proclamations of change hold any promise for me. In recent months, I've been asking virtually everyone I encounter how they're voting. I live in Illinois, so most folks tell me they're voting for Barack Obama. But no one can really tell me why - only that he's going to change a lot of stuff. Change, change, change. I have yet to find one single person who can tell me distinctly and convincingly why this man is qualified to be President and Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful nation on earth - other t han the fact that he claims he's going to implement a lot of change.

We've all seen the emails about Obama's genealogy, his upbringing, his Muslim background, and his church affiliations. Let's ignore this for a moment. Put it all aside. Then ask yourself, what qualifies this man to be my president? That he's a brilliant orator and talks about change?

CHANGE WHAT? Friends, I'll be forthright with you - I believe the American voters who are supporting Barack Obama don't have a clue what they're doing, as evidenced by the fact that not one of them - NOT ONE of them I've spoken to can spell out his qualifications. Not even the most liberal media can explain why he should be elected. Political experience? Negligible. Foreign relations? Non-existent. Achievements? Name one. Someone who wants to unite the country? If you haven't read his wife's thesis from Princeton, look it up on the web. This is who's lining up to be our next First Lady ? The only thing I can glean from Obama's constant harping about change is that we're in for a lot of new taxes.

For me, the choice is clear. I've looked carefully at the two leading applicants for the job, and I've made my choice.

Here's a question - where were you five and a half years ago? Around Christmas, 2002. You've had five or six birthdays in that time. My son has grown from a sixth grade child to a high school graduate. Five and a half years is a good chunk of time. About 2,000 days. 2,000 nights of sleep. 6,000 meals, give or take.

John McCain spent that amount of time, from 1967 to 1973, in a North Vietnamese prisoner-of-war camp.

When offered early release, he refused it. He considered this offer to be a public relations stunt by his captors, and insisted that those held longer than he should be released first. Did you get that part? He was offered his freedom, and he turned it down. A regimen of beatings and torture began.

Do you possess such strength of character? Locked in a filthy cell in a foreign country, would you turn down your own freedom in favor of your fellow man? I submit that's a quality of character that is rarely found, and for me, this singular act defines John McCain.

Unlike several presidential candidates in recent years whose military service is questionable or non-existent, you will not find anyone to denigrate the integrity and moral courage of this man. A graduate of Annapolis, during his Naval service he received the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. His own son is now serving in the Marine Corps in Iraq. Barack Obama is fond of saying "We honor John McCain's service...BUT...", which to me is condescending and offensive - because what I hear is, "Let's forget this man's sacrifice for his country and his proven leadership abilities, and talk some more about change."

I don't agree with John Mc Cain on everything - but I am utterly convinced that he is qualified to be our next President, and I trust him to do what's right. I know in my heart that he has the best interests of our country in mind. He doesn't simply want to be President - he wants to lead America, and there's a huge difference.

Factually, there is simply no comparison between the two candidates. A man of questionable background and motives who prattles on about change can't hold a candle to a man who has devoted his life in public service to this nation, retiring from the Navy in 1981 and elected to the Senate in 1982.

Perhaps Obama's supporters are taking a stance between old and new. Maybe they don't care about McCain's service or his strength of character, or his unblemished qualifications to be President. Maybe "likeability" is a higher priority for them than trust". Being a prisoner of war is not what qualifies John McCain to be President of the United States of America - but his demonstrated leadership certainly DOES.

Dear friends, it is time for us to stand. It is time for thinking Americans to say, "Enough." It is time for people of all parties to stop following the party line. It is time for anyone who wants to keep America first, who wants the right man leading their nation, to start a dialogue with all their friends and neighbors and ask who they're voting for, and why.

There's a lot of evil in this world. That should be readily apparent to all of us by now. And when faced with that evil as we are now, I want a man who knows the cost of war on his troops and on his citizens. I want a man who puts my family's interests before any foreign country.

I want a President who's qualified to lead.

ToucanSpam
09-18-2008, 07:06 PM
I'm going to key in on one tiny thing then just leave the rest to the professionals.


Just because John McCain spent time in a POW camp doesn't make him qualified to be the leader of the most powerful country on the planet. Granted, he made sacrifices that no one will ever be able to understand, that is not enough to make him intelligent or able to lead a country into an economic crisis this bad.


RobMoney, I do not question your political knowledge. What I do question is your belief that this email is an appropriate challenge to Barack Obama's promises of change. He has not been quiet about the things he intends on changing.

Anyways this is the equivalent of a professional wrestling match where a midget (myself, being uneducated on Obama's campaign) fights the company's biggest heel wrestler (RobMoney, who seems to be the only person in the corner of McCain). I'm really interested to see the responses by the big guns.

King PSYZ
09-18-2008, 08:11 PM
What's to respond to? A born again middle aged white dude who likes things the way they are so change must be a bad thing.

Anyone who can't comprehend that the last 8 years has fundementally damaged America on so many fronts isn't paying attention or is one of the few who have benifitted from Bush and the GOPs unmittegated rape of the constitution, and the American way.

We have a fractured economy, we've given up far too many individual rights, our President in one swift move deleted Habeas Corpus, screamed no "socialist" medical care while carrying on with socialised profits for billion dollar corporations standing on stilts, illegally occupied a soviergn nation in direct defiance of international law and UN treaties we helped establish, backed out of several other international treaties on weapons and enviromental regulation, etc.

If you want to belive this land isn't in dire need for change than you've been blinded by years of incompetance in the highest position in the country. A role formally reserved for our best and brightest leaders.

Anyone who thinks McCain will do anything but cary on with the fine tradition of trampling the average citizen's rights and income while further supporting the old white power base in this country is sadly mistaken and misinformed.

Is Barack the chosen one or infallible? Of course not, but he's the best viable choice running for office right now. I'd rather take 8 years of Barack getting 10% of what he promised done than even 4 years of continued abuse of the American political system.

RobMoney$
09-18-2008, 08:59 PM
What I do question is your belief that this email is an appropriate challenge to Barack Obama's promises of change. He has not been quiet about the things he intends on changing.


And this is a question for anyone who cares to respond to it, not just Toucan,...

What exactly are the things "he has not been quiet about changing", and what evidence can you give that shows Obama is capable of such reform?






Just because John McCain spent time in a POW camp doesn't make him qualified to be the leader of the most powerful country on the planet. Granted, he made sacrifices that no one will ever be able to understand, that is not enough to make him intelligent or able to lead a country into an economic crisis this bad.

No, but his 20 plus years in the Senate is certainly a better start than Obama's 143 days.



..and as far as the economic crisis, do you really think raising taxes to create a ton of government entitlement programs is what will lead us out of this crisis? The last person to try that was Carter. What we need is to lower taxes for not only the poor, but for the rich too. We need more liquidity, not less.

Dorothy Wood
09-18-2008, 09:39 PM
wow.

I'll tell you what, that email seems really fake. also, born-again-christians are fucking nuts.

listen, I liked McCain, I respected him. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I was completely relieved when he became the republican nominee. I don't think he'd be a bad president, but in recent months I believe he has critically damaged his credibility. Even if Sarah Palin is only half as bat-shit crazy as I think she is, the fact of the matter is John McCain only met her once before she was nominated to run for the second highest position in our government. and that is fucking ridiculous and offensive in my opinion.

Obama taught constitutional law for 12 years. His life has basically been dedicated to understanding how our country works and I believe he has character and shows interest in improving our country and its standing in the world. He's not perfect, he doesn't have as much government experience as I'd like...but shit, he seems like a good person, I don't think he's tricking me like the other side is tricking social conservatives.

you can't tell me that after 8 years of big government under a "republican", that the right won't keep wasting money. *see king psyz's post*
you can't claim that a free market is best when it clearly isn't a free market.


I know it's hard to digest, but you keep screaming that the "obamatrons" are being manipulated to believe he's the messiah...but you're just as guilty of being manipulated by the right wing media filling your head with anti-obama, pro-working man rhetoric. seriously, you think rich ass mccain really gives a shit about you? he doesn't, he thinks you're a pussy, but he wants your vote.

RobMoney$
09-18-2008, 09:51 PM
I know it's hard to digest, but you keep screaming that the "obamatrons" are being manipulated to believe he's the messiah...but you're just as guilty of being manipulated by the right wing media filling your head with anti-obama, pro-working man rhetoric. seriously, you think rich ass mccain really gives a shit about you? he doesn't, he thinks you're a pussy, but he wants your vote.

hahaaaaa.

I know he doesn't give a shit about me. I'm not under the guise that he does, and neither should Obama supporters.

I do believe that McCain is interested in making money and isn't trying to sell me some Robbin Hood fairy-tale of "steal from the rich and give to the poor". Obama is simply pandering to the masses for their vote with that shit. It's as transparent as you can get.
It's the oldest campaign promise in the democrats book. Nothing new or "Change" about that at all.

Steal from the rich
Give to the Poor
The rich have to fire their employees because they're losing money
The rich have to raise the prices of the products their business make because they're losing money
The poor become even more poor because their losing their jobs.
The poor become even more poor because their paychecks are staying the same and prices keep rising.

McCain actually has a pretty good track record of being fiscally responsible over the years.

Dorothy Wood
09-18-2008, 10:18 PM
what was it you liked about Hillary then?

and I'm not voting for Obama based on any sort of robin hood idea. I'm voting based on what I perceive to be his intent to do good. I probably would've had a harder time deciding who to vote for if McCain hadn't have brought Palin in.

I am subjected to very little political pandering where I live because both sides figure chicago is a lock on obama. so neither party is spending much money or time trying to convince anybody of anything. I've done my research and read up on the issues on both sides and am making my decision based on facts rather than rhetoric, knowing full well that I am probably just choosing the lesser of two evils. which is what people have to do every 4 years it seems. what is comes down to is that maybe they're both liars, but mccain lies about way worse stuff.

DroppinScience
09-18-2008, 11:00 PM
Seriously, another fucking e-mail? Rob, you'll buy anything hook, line, and sinker.

I can't wait to see what you pull off next.