trickle up economics:

[abbott]

trickle up economics:

Why don't we take the 75% of the poorest Americans and pay their debts. This will free up their spending to Trickle up; Instead of bailing out larger orginizations?

[hellojello]

trickle up economics:

Why don't we take the 75% of the poorest Americans and pay their debts. This will free up their spending to Trickle up; Instead of bailing out larger orginizations?
Interesting idea although I'm not sure if it would logically work anymore than the trickle down theory. After all (if i am to assume) the majority of the debt of the poorest people is generated through the incapacity to meet the financial requirements of the basic standard of living, simply paying off their debts would only work in the short term. Unless the circumstances that make them unable to meet the financial commitments resulting in debt are also addressed in conjunction with the debt removal I doubt the idea would have any long term implications on the economy. In my unqualified opinion.

[roosta]

i guess its a case of which dangerous precident are you willing to set, that rich peeps who fuck up will get bailed out, or poor people will get bailed out?

[Bob]

i guess its a case of which dangerous precident are you willing to set, that rich peeps who fuck up will get bailed out, or poor people will get bailed out?

the system where the ultra-rich can play their money games, fuck people out of their homes, fuck up the national economy, and get bailed out with taxpayer dollars is the better system

[King PSYZ]

Obviously

[Bob]

what's fucked though is that you kind of can't not bail them out because if they go down, everyone else goes down with them

how did that happen?

[King PSYZ]

because somewhere along the line they were let to run free and wild. they got big, and fast.

just like the internet bubble and that burst, this is a result of financing and relying on vapor funds. money that only exists on paper on in the computer but in reality is usually based on wishfull thinking of investments or holdings and nothing solid.

these companies started paying exorbanent sallaries to it's top 1% of employees while cutting jobs and reducing benifits due to relaxed standards from government in the guise of stimulating the economy or so called free market economics where we the worker bee/consumer would save more by shopping for benifits ourselves... in theroy. the reality being that it's was an easy out for them to further pay themselves out on false profit and generate buisiness for others.

as I mentioned in another thread, these same people screamed socialism and communism when socialised health care is brought up (even though most industrialised nations have some form of socialised health care with no major economic collapse) are the first to put out the hands when they can no longer sustain your business.

just like the airlines, soaring costs for years with government handouts and tax shelters to boot. many of you might say, but without airlines and plane travel global economy would grind to hault and we'd be cast into the dark ages while the rest of the world flew overhead...

yet tell me how these airlines survive in other countries without handouts or subsidies?

if their business model is efficient and sucessful, then bailouts seems unneeded no?

scream soaring costs all you want, if it wasn't for greed of the executives of these airlines the business model would adjust to cost of business and while cost to consumer might rise obviously if it rises above sustainability there's something fundementally flawed with the system.

same with these mega banks, lenders, and insurance agencies and... hey that sounds a bit like the mob no? i wonder if the RICO laws shouldn't come into play here. sounds like some king hell racketeering going on right now.

just like stories of the mob holding debt above someone to retain power over them, these banks were allowed to get so big on vapor funds that if we let them fall now the economy would collapse.

at this point it's far too late, but there should be some stipulations on these bailouts...

airlines, corporate farms, banks, insurance giants, lenders, etc. should be forced to return 25-50% of profit back to the government or the taxpayers themselves compounded yearly.

executive wages will be dramaticly cut to match closer to reasonable levels based of work performed.

golden parachutes are dismantled and declared void, "under new management"

each business is given a set ammount of time, reasonable of course, to realign and repair the mistakes that put them in peril. if at such time they have failed to do so they're liquidated and the funds go directly back to the federal reserve with only 2 weeks pay for all employees and executives.

Sound harsh? It should we just bailed out the richest in the land with the poorest in the land's tax dollars. They need to work for it. Otherwise Boston and a few thousand more cities might want to get used to the idea of it smelling alot like iced tea every day...

[abbott]

King PSYZ........we just bailed out the richest in the land with the poorest in the land's tax dollars...

[Adam]

search google videos for "money as debt" - its a few years old but explains a lot of how we got here - I might watch it again actually.

[100% ILL]

search google videos for "money as debt" - its a few years old but explains a lot of how we got here - I might watch it again actually.

I just watched it. Very eye opening. (y) I need to borrow more money to help create more money thereby helping to ward off this impending doom.

[HAL 9000]

trickle up economics:

Why don't we take the 75% of the poorest Americans and pay their debts. This will free up their spending to Trickle up; Instead of bailing out larger orginizations?

Inflation and moral hazard. Unless you have seen data to the contrary, I would imagne that paying the debts of that many people is beyond the financial means of even the US Govt.

The moral hazard problem also exists with the current proposition of buying the financial sector's bad debt. Banks now know that if they collectively take big risks and price them cheaply, governments will bail them out when circumstances move against them. I guess some tight regulatory controls will be needed to overcome this.

[abbott]

Using our tax dollars to bail out anybody might be a bad idea. maybe we should hold a public fundraiser for AIG and see if the public wants to support the bail out.

another thought that has come out of this is maybe we should bail out the middle 50%, not the total poorest or richest.

Finally, I have no idea what the total debt of the poorest 75% of Americans, but my guess is it is less than the total of our tax dollars that will be paid to bail out large corporations this year ... and if you wanted to add the price tag to war, I think you would cover it well.

[yeahwho]

I think today's scenario here in the USA with the failing banks, insurance companies and the mortgage crisis is we've hit the proverbial dead end of bubbles.

Greenspan invented the housing bubble to paper over the Internet bubble's problems. That's gotten us into an even bigger mess. We can't just keep going from bubble to bubble.

[Adam]

I just watched it. Very eye opening. (y) I need to borrow more money to help create more money thereby helping to ward off this impending doom.

Its scary but that is the best way out - the only reason I can see why the US and UK governments are bailing out is because the economy runs on confidence. If they can report enough times that there is enough confidence again now then we can all go back to spending money we don't have and back to borrowing to pay off debts that paid off debts that paid off debts that paid off debts which'll continue for banks with a license to print money and more importantly - keep the rich rich and governments in power.

[roosta]

hey, Henry, buy MY shit-pile! (http://www.buymyshitpile.com/)

[travesty]

what's fucked though is that you kind of can't not bail them out because if they go down, everyone else goes down with them

how did that happen?

I refuse to believe that is actually true. Are we to believe that that collapse of one, two or even three major corporations is going to completely decimate our entire economy? I am calling major bullshit on that. I may only have an undergraduate business degree but even I know that is insane fear mongering.
Is it going to hurt the economy? Yes
Will every American feel some pain? Yes
Will it collapse the economy? No fucking way

Look, this whole situation is NOT good. Something obviously had to be done but government intervention with taxpayer dollars is ludicris and now that the snowball is rolling, it's going to be a real mutha to stop. We are simply "financing" the problem instead of paying for it up front. Now that these bailouts are underway I don't see how we are going to get out of this without significantly raising taxes somewhere in the system OR just selling our entire country off to the highest bidder and I don't hear either presidential candidate talking about raising taxes:eek:

[travesty]

what's fucked though is that you kind of can't not bail them out because if they go down, everyone else goes down with them

how did that happen?

I refuse to believe that is actually true. Are we to believe that that collapse of one, two or even three major corporations is going to completely decimate our entire economy? I am calling major bullshit on that. I may only have an undergraduate business degree but even I know that is insane fear mongering.
Is it going to hurt the economy? Yes
Will every American feel some pain? Yes
Will it collapse the economy? No fucking way

Look, this whole situation is NOT good. Something obviously had to be done but government intervention with taxpayer dollars is ludicris and now that the snowball is rolling, it's going to be a real mutha to stop. We are simply "financing" the problem instead of paying for it up front. Now that these bailouts are underway I don't see how we are going to get out of this without significantly raising taxes somewhere in the system OR just selling our entire country off to the highest bidder and I don't hear either presidential candidate talking about raising taxes:eek:

[Adam]

The east will soon have a fairer share in the economic power because of the west big risks. I think this is another thing the UK and US governments don't want to see - it'll make things a bit fairer round here tho if they do get chance not to be bullied so much by western corporations

[checkyourprez]

i was a poli sci major in college. took my required economics courses. took one just to take it, it was about banks and the monetary system. ive always "got" how banks have worked but that class really blew my mind in some regards. my teacher was so nonchalant with it. the whole banking system is fraudulent, in my opinion.

there's so much money going around, the problem is most of that money IS NOT REALLY THERE. and than we run into problems like this sub prime mortgage mess we are in right now, with a lot of other examples im sure. obviously people have insurance on commercial banks but it always struck me as odd, that you put your money into a bank and they more or less loan it out to the next guy in line. your money exists in computers, obviously if one or two or thousands even went to withdraw all their money from banks at once everything would be fine. but if everyone were to do it, for whatever reason, its just so shocking to me how easily the banking/financial/economy would crumble.


but like i said, im not an economics major, so if im really off base, someone let me know.

[Bob]

i was a poli sci major too, but i managed to avoid ever taking an economics course

shit, i could be president

[Adam]

shit, i could be president

only if you mainly got C's !!!

[Echewta]

trickle up economics:

Why don't we take the 75% of the poorest Americans and pay their debts. This will free up their spending to Trickle up; Instead of bailing out larger orginizations?

GO BACK TO CANADA JIMMY CARTER!